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'''<big>For previous discussions about this character, see also [[Talk:Tobi]] and its archives.</big>'''
 
'''<big>For previous discussions about this character, see also [[Talk:Tobi]] and its archives.</big>'''
   
== Wood Release Confirmed ==
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== As Yin-Kurama's jinchūriki ==
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In the [[Two Mangekyō|latest chapter]], Madara stated that Obito had both the left Rinnegan and the Yin half of Kurama. Is that enough to put Obito as Yin-Kurama's jinchūriki (though he most likely has already transferred it to Naruto)?--[[User:JOA20|JOA20]] ([[User talk:JOA20|talk]]) 07:47, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
   
Obito uses Wood Release in Chapter 605. [[Special:Contributions/207.216.193.120|207.216.193.120]] ([[User talk:207.216.193.120|talk]]) 04:41, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
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I don't know why and how, but this chapter says that now Obito possesses Yin Kurama. Should we make respective changes?[[User:Faust-RSI|Faust-RSI]] ([[User talk:Faust-RSI|talk]]) 08:25, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
   
: Its true. [[Spiral Zetsu]] even said that it was Obito who used [[Wood Release: Piercing Branch Technique]], not him. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 04:43, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
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:He *had the Yin Kyuubi. He transferred it to Naruto. But, maybe the community might want to wait for the raws to make an official decision.-'''NaviiGator''' <small>''('''A.K.A.'''KotoSenju)''</small><sup><small>[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk Page]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|My Contributions]]</small></sup> 09:12, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
:: Well, why don't we add it then? Also, Obito's Mangekyou Sharingan section needs to be updated to say that he got it by witnessing Rin's death. [[Special:Contributions/207.216.193.120|207.216.193.120]] ([[User talk:207.216.193.120|talk]]) 04:49, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
Yeah he fully matured his Sharingan and awakened Mangekyo at the same time, I am guessing if you awaken the Mangekyo before 3 tomoe then it forces your sharingan into maturity. [[Special:Contributions/173.66.119.89|173.66.119.89]] ([[User talk:173.66.119.89|talk]]) 05:19, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
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I'm fairly certain that Obito was the Yin Kurama Jinchuriki for a brief period of time there. He was using a kyuubi chakra arm to pull the beast fragments out of Madara, and when we saw him in Madara in that bijuu mind space place, you can see the Yin Kyuubi floating right above him. As such, I'd say it'd be safe to list him as a past Kyuubi jin.
: That's all very well, but are we gonna add Wood Release to his Kekkai Genkai or not? I'd do it myself, but I can't edit anything. =_= [[Special:Contributions/207.216.193.120|207.216.193.120]] ([[User talk:207.216.193.120|talk]]) 06:54, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
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[[User:Kenny U|Kenny U]] ([[User talk:Kenny U|talk]]) 14:22, February 28, 2014 (UTC)Kenny U
   
i truly agree it should be added.--[[User:Tchad1|Tchad1]] ([[User talk:Tchad1|talk]]) 10:53, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
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== 2 things ==
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Shouldn't we list him as a user of chakra absorption? Also I see he is listed as a Sensor, I don't recall, any justification for that?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 10:21, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
   
The infobox is locked, when an Admin gets here they'll either unlock it and the information can be added, or add it directly. You guys aren't the only people that can read and come to the realisation that it needs to be added. This place isn't run by robots either.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 10:59, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
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:Against Sasuke's Amaterasu in chapter 641: "I could ''sense'' the build up of chakra in your left eye..."--[[User:JOA20|JOA20]] ([[User talk:JOA20|talk]]) 11:19, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
   
I see it's been added already. The one thing I believe we should consider listing is that the only time we've seen him using confirmed Wood Release is when he was wearing Spiral Zetsu. Remember that his own Zetsu arm was mush at that point. This is kinda like a more complicated scenario of Tsunade giving Onoki chakra for Dust Release, but this time both people can use Wood Release. I'm sure I'm acting paranoid and nit-picky about this, and we'll see Obito use Wood Release by himself in the neat future, but that's just how I am. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 23:20, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
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::But couldn't it have been his sense of sight, he can see chakra? [[User:Arrancar79|Arrancar79]] ([[User talk:Arrancar79|talk]]) 04:50, February 27, 2014 (UTC)
   
You can't ignore Zetsu's comment. Also the branches came just from his crushed side.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 01:42, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
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He is most definitely a Sensor type, as he has used sensing abilities to find Minato and Kushina, Sasuke and Itachi, and then Taka, then he said he sensed the Amaterasu build up. I also agree he can absorb Chakra.. I mean Madara did say he turned Obito into himself basically...[[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] ([[User talk:ItachiWasAHero|talk]]) 07:56, February 27, 2014 (UTC)
   
I'm not. Obito willed the technique, and was credited with its use, but it was technically spiral Zetsu's arm that performed it. He made it happen, but not with his own Zetsu arm. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 01:58, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
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== Jinchuriki ==
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Shouldn't Obito have Gedo Mazo be listed as one of Obito's Tailed Beasts in his infobox? It was only for a short time sure, but there nonetheless. [[User:Skitts|Skitts]] ([[User talk:Skitts|talk]]) 17:09, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
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:The Demonic Statue isn't a tailed beast, so...--[[User:JOA20|JOA20]] ([[User talk:JOA20|talk]]) 17:10, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
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::Except, given it's the husk of the Ten Tails and so technically it is, so... [[User:Skitts|Skitts]] ([[User talk:Skitts|talk]]) 17:11, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
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:::It may be ''similar'' to a tailed beast, but it has never been stated to be one, not by Madara, Obito or the tailed beasts, who are the ones knowing the most about it.--[[User:JOA20|JOA20]] ([[User talk:JOA20|talk]]) 17:18, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
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::::It's the Ten-Tails' body, so it clearly is a Tailed Beast by definition. Neither Obito nor Madara have ever referred to Gedo Mazo as a living being either, but clearly we didn't need them to tell us that once we saw it moving and showing behavior and such. [[User:Skitts|Skitts]] ([[User talk:Skitts|talk]]) 17:21, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
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Well, if that's your point then we'll have to go by vote. I actually support this. --[[User:JOA20|JOA20]] ([[User talk:JOA20|talk]]) 17:23, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
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:It might be the body of a tailed beast, but it's not ''a'' tailed beast. Obito wasn't no longer a jinchūriki the moment One-Tail through Seven-Tails and the chakra fragments of Eight and Nine-Tails were removed from him. He's not even a pseudo-jinchūriki, since he no longer had the chakra of an actual tailed beast in him. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 17:29, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
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::Omni, the equivalent of what you're saying is if Kurama lost all of its chakra, the person it's sealed in is no longer a jinchuriki, which is self-evidently absurd. After all, Gyuki said that Samehada had absorbed all his chakra during his and B's fight with Kisame, yet we never thought to de-list B as a jinchuriki. It's the being itself that counts, not simply the chakra. [[User:Skitts|Skitts]] ([[User talk:Skitts|talk]]) 17:45, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Obito was a classified as a jinchuriki when he had the Ten-Tails sealed in him. When it was removed and he was just housing the Demonic Statue, he kept his ''status'' as a jinchuriki (same way Gaara kept his status despite Shukaku being removed), but he was no longer a jinchuriki because the Demonic Statue is not a tailed beast.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 18:05, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
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::::If it's a tb, the sage's tools are tb, too. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 18:16, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
   
There's no problem then. For now, we should mention that while being merged with Zetsu, he can use Wood Release or something--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 03:06, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
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A better discussion seems to be the fact that Obito was the actual jinchūriki of Yin Kurama, not Zetsu. Madara even outright says in this chapter that it is Obito housing Kurama, evidenced by Kurama appearing with him when he went to pull out Madara's beasts, as well as his ability to transfer the beast from himself to Naruto. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 19:02, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
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:Don't think it's quite that simple. It was very clear that Black Zetsu was the one who took Kurama. Obito was still unconscious when it happened. Either Obito has access to Yin Kurama because he's merged with BZ and is preventing BZ from leaving him, or for some reason, BZ housed Yin Kurama in Obito. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 19:19, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
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::If it were that simple for a Zetsu to become a jinchūriki, I wonder why Madara/Obito didn't just "steal" the tailed beasts housing them in Zetsu clones. Madara himself says it: "Obito has both the Yin half of the Nine-Tails and the left Rinnegan..."--[[User:JOA20|JOA20]] ([[User talk:JOA20|talk]]) 19:44, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Things have been screwy with this. When Obito was not in control of his body, Black Zetsu was ready to leave Obito's body and take Yin-Kurama with him, meaning Yin-Kurama had to have been in him. However, once Obito got control of the body, he was able to do the transfer.
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:::It is possible that because Black Zetsu is a parasite on Obito's body, once he regained control, he could do whatever he wanted with Black Zetsu and that includes transfering a tailed beast.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 19:46, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
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::::Yes because when he transferes the kyuubi to Naruto, he does from his right side, the side that BZ isn't on. This means that no matter what, something happened so that the kyuubi is inside of Obito now [[User:Riptide240|Riptide240]] ([[User talk:Riptide240|talk]])
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:::::Obito might be in control of what happens to it, but it's still in BZ. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 20:45, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::: Even still, he would have to have it in himself first cause he didn't do it from BZ he did it from his own flesh and being [[User:Riptide240|Riptide240]] ([[User talk:Riptide240|talk]]) 20:48, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
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I don't think BZ has a body in the first place. He's a mass of chakra that leeches on to people. Therefore, he would use the body he's attached to to store any tailed beasts he takes. As chakra, he has no storage place of his own. When leaving the body, he would just hold on to the chakra to take it with him. To say that BZ on his own is a Jinchuuriki is like say a tailed beast can be a jinchuuriki of a tailed beast. Not possible. [[User:MangekyoSasuke|MangekyoSasuke]] ([[User talk:MangekyoSasuke|talk]]) 20:58, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
   
:I wouldn't be against throwing caution to the wind if you want. I always wondered why he never used it in his adult years...--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 11:37, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
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He may not have a body in a traditional sense, but he definitely has a physical composition. He's not an ethereal entity, otherwise there's no way he'd be able to so many things he does, like just a few chapters ago, digging his way through the ground to intercept Yin Kurama. That still doesn't change the fact that when he was going to leave before Obito stopped him, the black mass itself was leaving Obito's body, meaning the black mass itself contained Yin Kurama. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 21:05, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
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:Who said chakra was ethereal? If that were the case, the tailed beast would be ghosts. [[User:MangekyoSasuke|MangekyoSasuke]] ([[User talk:MangekyoSasuke|talk]]) 21:09, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
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::Chakra by definition is made up two energies. By ethereal, I mean something like dragon entities that come out of the Demonic Statue of the Outer Path. Sure, they're there, they interact with stuff, but it's not quite mass like a rock or a tree. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 21:14, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
   
::Note, I wouldn't even say he was merged, wasnt he just...kinda wearing Spiral Zetsu's body?--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 11:57, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
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On topic... @Skitts, the "Ten-Tails/Shinju" isn't even a Tailed Beast, we just classify it as such for some weird reason. Also offtopic, but again I must remind the urgency of merging Gedo Mazo and Shinju articles. Having them separated is like saying that myself with a limb removed would no longer be me but some other person--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:39, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
   
The wood did come from Obito's Hashi part, not whole Zetsu enveloped body.
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I know I used to be in favor of the contrary, but I actually do not support a merger. Also, I kind of don't think the Gedo Mazo should really count as making him a jinchuriki... BUT... I do think the Shinju itself should be separated from the Ten-Tail's page. The Shinju (God Tree) was able to be reproduced by Obito during his duration as its Jinchuriki. But even after being stripped of the Ten-Tails and having all of the Tailed Beast comprising it split up, the Shinju remained fully planted in the ground without being disturbed. This effectively demonstrated that it, after its recreation at least, was able to continue on without and in the absence of the Juubi/Ten-Tails itself, the 9 Chakra Entities which comprised it, and the Gedo Mazo body. So I do not think either Shinju or Gedo Mazo should be counted as Tailed Beasts. After all, they both lack the fundamental chakra tails, even if they are chakra entities in either part or whole.[[User:Skarrj|Skarrj]] ([[User talk:Skarrj|talk]]) 05:31, February 27, 2014 (UTC)
Just because a ninja didn't use something doesn't mean he couldn't, because if we go by this logic, Tobirama wasn't an Edo Tensei user and Itachi has never used Magatama and that fire tech since that was post-death--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:26, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
It indeed did come from his right side, no one is discrediting the fact that he used it, Omnibender's just being cautious. As for the Tobirama bit, I don't get that because they said he was the inventor of, and was known for its use by the older generation. Madara stuff also doesn't make sense to me since that would mean all Edo Tensei'd persons never used the techniques they've currently displayed. I just found it interesting that Tobi's never used it in present day.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 17:30, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
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I would agree that after taking control of his body and BZ Obito just could do anything he wanted with Yin Kurama, while it still was physically in BZ, but him resealing it to Naruto through his normal body AND him using '''tailed beast chakra arms''' against Madara suggests that Kurama somehow moved to his body. It's stupid, I know, but that's how Kishi made it.[[User:Faust-RSI|Faust-RSI]] ([[User talk:Faust-RSI|talk]]) 06:35, February 27, 2014 (UTC)
   
It's not like killing people with branches is his only technique, Zetsu didn't display and wasn't known for Wood Release until late in the manga. While interesting, it's self-explainable... But of course it's still very possible that the funny Zetsu clone guy suit DID enhance his Hashi powers, thus without him, it's just weak or something. But that isn't the point, Obuto has Hashi cells, used a Wood technique knowingly, so has been put as a user, there's nothing left to discuss. If it was his own technique or not doesn't matter since Sasuke had temporary ones as well and are still in his infobox.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:41, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
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He did take it from Black Zetsu apparently, becoming a temporary nine tails host, then he sealed it into naruto. [[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] ([[User talk:ItachiWasAHero|talk]]) 07:57, February 27, 2014 (UTC)
   
Uh, how does spiral Zetsu crediting him with the use of the technique means it came from Obito's Hashirama arm? We saw it breaking when he tried getting past the wall. He pretty much didn't have a right arm when the Zetsu enveloped him. This would be akin to a leg amputee Ino performing a kick after sending her mind to a different body. Obito is listed as the user, but it should be pointed out that it was performed with a body part that isn't his. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 23:09, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
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@Skarrj, except the Gedo Mazo IS the Shinju, what's not clear here? What's outside (the tree) is a replica. Kinda like Gaara recreating Shukaku from his sand without unsealing it from within himself in Part I. "Gedo Mazo" is just a nickname given to it by Madara. My body without limbs will still be I, Elveonora. The Shinju without the stripped chakra that are the Tailed Beasts isn't suddenly a different entity.
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And yes, glad you agree on that the Shinju/Gedo Mazo isn't a Tailed Beast. Tailed Beasts are Sage of Six Path's creations, and he made 9 of them... "Ten-Tails" is a tailed beast in name/label only. So to answer the topic, Obito can't be listed as a host to Gedo Mazo, Shinju, Ten-Tails, because all 3 are the very same entity just in different forms with different given nicknames.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:30, February 27, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Obito's age ==
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On the the topic of Obito being Kurama's jinchuuriki, I'm not so sure. After all, it definitely was inside of Black Zetsu and it even tried to separate itself from Obito, trying to bring Kurama to Madara. In my opinion Obito isn't its jinchuuriki, he only has full control over Black Zetsu now, so you could say he is one only "by extension"--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:32, February 27, 2014 (UTC)
   
Are we really doing this again? Obito isn't 13. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 21:38, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
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Um, no, the ten tails was explicitly stated to be the original tailed beast, that not something debatable. The rest about the ten tails I'm on the fence on. [[User:MangekyoSasuke|MangekyoSasuke]] ([[User talk:MangekyoSasuke|talk]]) 14:57, February 27, 2014 (UTC)
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:About the Ten-Tails being the original tailed beast, Obito at the Five Kages' Summit stated that it was "''the origin of the tailed beasts''" in response to Temari's question on wheter it was another tailed beast. So it is not really a tailed beast. It is considered one only because of the numerical tail name, which would put the [[Zero-Tails]] as a tailed beast as well, except it isn't.--[[User:JOA20|JOA20]] ([[User talk:JOA20|talk]]) 16:41, February 27, 2014 (UTC)
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::People simply didn't know once upon a time there was a Ten-Tails, that doesn't make it less a tailed beast. Want a simple rationale that says it is a tailed beast? What is the definition of a jinchūriki? Someone who has had a tailed beast sealed in them. From the moment we learned about the existence of the Ten-Tails, we were told that Hagoromo was its jinchūriki, which by extension means the Ten-Tails ''is'' a tailed beast. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 17:15, February 27, 2014 (UTC)
   
He's Around Kakashi's Age , A Year Younger I Think .--[[User:BassGod|~ &#123;D.S.P.&#125; &#91;G/G&#93;]] ([[User talk:BassGod|talk]]) 22:09, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
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== Skill with staff ==
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from the recent chapter shouldn't we add his skill to use the staff he has to deflect multiple orbs Madara attacked him with[[User:Fanking|Fanking]] ([[User talk:Fanking|talk]]) 21:01, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
   
Actually Obito is older, so he isn't 29-30 as you constantly list him to be--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 01:40, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
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== Sage Mode user? ==
   
Just because Kakashi said he became chunin at 6 doesn't mean much anymore. That was literally the beginning of the series, and Kishimoto has a tendency to contradict himself. He obviously forgot or changed his mind, since there's no way Kakashi was 6 in chapter 599. But I will admit that Obito's age is ambiguous, since it hasn't been elaborated on yet. Since there's no direct confirmation of his age, we should just say 30-34 or something. Even that would be better than listing him as 13.. since he's obviously not. :/ --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 06:43, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
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After having his power drained from Obito, and Obito subseqeuntly attempting to escape via his own Kamui, he was quickly stopped by two Black Chakra Orbs which he effectively countered with his Chakra Shakujo. HOWEVER... Madara notes that:"It was correct to use Sage Mode. Were you able to suck a little of that power too?". Does this mean Obito also absorbed some of his Senjutsu in the process? [[User:Skarrj|Skarrj]] ([[User talk:Skarrj|talk]]) 05:34, February 27, 2014 (UTC)
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:Madara didn't mean SM, read another translation. He just talked about "Rikudo Mode", i.e. staff, chakra cloak etc.[[User:Faust-RSI|Faust-RSI]] ([[User talk:Faust-RSI|talk]]) 06:35, February 27, 2014 (UTC)
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:: I'd still like to see what the RAW has to say about this. Because we may finally have a name for the Ten-Tails jinchūriki form. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 06:54, February 27, 2014 (UTC)
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:::I thought it was a description for that form as well. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 17:15, February 27, 2014 (UTC)
   
Kishimoto has already acknowledged the mistake in chapter 599, Obito and Kakashi's graduation/promotion ages are correct, as both manga chapters and databooks do reference them. The things that will be corrected are Minato's monument head being cut and '''hopefully''' Hayate won't be present in the chapter as he would be 26 now if alive, but the entrance ceremony did occur 26 years ago, so at the time he was either an infant or still inside of his father "_"
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Take a look at the chapter talk page. ;) [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 16:45, February 28, 2014 (UTC)
Kakashi was 4 and Obito 8 during their first Academy day if you like it or not.
 
That makes him 34 in Part II. --[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:20, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
Definitely hit me up with the article where he acknowledges this, because it seems like a good read.. especially since Kakashi doesn't look 8 at all, and that's going by the same logic people used to discredit Tobi being Obito back when he fought Minato.. so like, fair game I guess. lmfao. But if it's totally confirmed by the man himself, why are we not listing him as 34? Anything but 13 would work at this point. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 05:52, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
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Thanks, what I said still stays the same. Madara basically says "Transforming into the Sage (not SM user, but the Sage of 6 Paths) only once...". Also, Obito could defend himself from the orbs because the staff is made from the same material. Basically absorbing part of Madara's power enebled him to use Yin-Yang release again.[[User:Faust-RSI|Faust-RSI]] ([[User talk:Faust-RSI|talk]]) 19:51, February 28, 2014 (UTC)
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:Na, read my translation. ;) [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 00:40, March 1, 2014 (UTC)
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::I did, it fits perfectly.[[User:Faust-RSI|Faust-RSI]] ([[User talk:Faust-RSI|talk]]) 09:40, March 1, 2014 (UTC)
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:::It doesn't fit what you said above, though. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 11:56, March 3, 2014 (UTC)
   
So far its looking like a retcon needs to be done, Because Kakashi was a REALLY huge 9year old if thats the case, because Kakashi next to rin was obvious he is not small in chapter 605. Kakashi is 13 in the gaiden and the 599 just opened up plotholes, stop trying to make everything fit and just accept kishimoto effed up here. Kakashi and Obito are the same age... [[Special:Contributions/173.66.119.89|173.66.119.89]] ([[User talk:173.66.119.89|talk]]) 06:29, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
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@Faust-RSI i have to agree with Seelentau here you did just say it was Rikudo Mode {{unsigned|Funsize33}}
   
Don't look how old do Kishi's character drawings look, do I have to bring up the overused Itachi example? Also it's completely feasible, I know of 10 year-old that's 150cm --[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:14, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
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Regardless of the translation, I'm against listing Obito as a [[Sage Mode]] user for the same reason that I'm against listing Madara. They stole Hashirama's Sage chakra (though Obito stole Hashi's from Madara) and have no capacity to use Sage Mode on their own. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 17:26, March 3, 2014 (UTC)
   
:And on that note, I remember Shonensuki mentioning somewhere that "Kishimoto is horrible at protraying age," so Kishi just made a mistake on the ages of the characters. It can happen to anybody who is drawing children younger than 14-15 (as most JUMP protagonists are that age). --[[User:KiumaruHamachi|KiumaruHamachi]] ([[User talk:KiumaruHamachi|talk]]) 23:37, October 12, 2012 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi
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Hmm so Obito used sage mode for a bit, and madara calls it Senninka?? What does the ka at the end actually mean? [[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] ([[User talk:ItachiWasAHero|talk]]) 00:31, March 4, 2014 (UTC)
   
What makes you think Obito and Rin weren't 6 at the time? I know it sounds like I'm grasping at straws, but I'm just making a point here. While Kishi indeed confirmed that Kakashi became Chunin at 6 early in the series, there's a lot of stuff to consider here. A. Kishi never revealed either Obito or Rin's ages, at least from my knowledge. and B. Chapter 599 has a number of plot holes, mainly Minato's statue. So Kakashi being in the Chunin exams at the same point as Obito might have been a mistake on Kishi's part. None of this confirms that Obito is older than Kakashi. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 01:34, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
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: "Senninka" means "Sage Transformation". "-ka" (化) means "transformation". Its the same romanji used to describe Jūgo's clan's transformation, which is basically an unstable Sage Mode. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 03:33, March 4, 2014 (UTC)
   
:1 - Watch you language on here, we do not allow the f bomb to be dropped in discussions. Second, Obito's age was released in the databooks as 13 years old when his presumed death occured and Rin's was never revleaed. --[[User:KiumaruHamachi|KiumaruHamachi]] ([[User talk:KiumaruHamachi|talk]]) 01:42, October 13, 2012 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi
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So that means Madara and Obito did not use Sage mode since it was imperfect, but instead Sage Transformation... still weird how the hashi face looked just like hashirama in actual sage mode though. [[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] ([[User talk:ItachiWasAHero|talk]]) 05:30, March 4, 2014 (UTC)
   
Well see? There you go. So option B is that Kishi simply messed up when putting Kakashi's chunin promotion in the chapter. He forgot that Minato wasn't Hokage at that point, so what's stopping him from forgetting that Kakashi graduated at 5 and became Chunin at 6? This still isn't confirmation that Obito is older than Kakashi. It could just as easily be a mistake on Kishi's part. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 02:15, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
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: Not quite. See, Seel translated some lines from the manga, specifically Jūgo's that proves that Sage Transformation is just another name for Sage Mode. In essence, Sage Mode is a type of Sage Transformation, while Jūgo's clan is unable to balance the chakras, meaning that their Sage Transformation doesn't equate to Sage Mode. Its weird, but Madara is using ''a'' Sage Mode. Hashirama's Sage Mode, however, not his own. Same for Obito, though I question this, as he didn't gain any of the markings that Madara did. I still think it was refering to the Jinchūriki mode looking like the Sage of Six Paths, but that's just me. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 06:26, March 4, 2014 (UTC)
   
He didn't forget/retcon/mess up anything, except the Minato Monument mistake (acknowledged and will be corrected) and Hayate, but that's secondary.
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Considering the Ten tails chakra is equivalent to natural energy, its not completely a stretch to say the jinchuuriki form for ten tails is a form of sage mode. So maybe he's referring to that, considering there's no sage mode marks on Obito. [[User:MangekyoSasuke|MangekyoSasuke]] ([[User talk:MangekyoSasuke|talk]]) 06:43, March 4, 2014 (UTC)
* According to a databook, Obito was 13 as of his "death" and Kakashi has been promoted to Jounin at the time (Kakashi Gaiden, chapter 599 being references)
 
* I relly don't get what's not clear here:
 
# Obito did fail the exams twice, once at 9 (the year Team Minato has graduated from Academy - Kakashi 5 at this time), then at 10 (Kakashi turned Chunin as 6 years old) and finally managed to succeed as 11 years old (Kakashi being 7)
 
* 2 years later, Kakashi turned Jounin and Obito got crushed by boulders
 
* 5 years later, Obito attacks Konoha, Kakashi was 14 then
 
   
There's no error--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 03:55, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
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:The fact that there are no Sage Mode markings doesn't mean that Obito didn't absorb a small portion of senjutsu chakra. At least that's what I got from Madara's reaction.--[[User:JOA20|JOA20]] ([[User talk:JOA20|talk]]) 07:05, March 4, 2014 (UTC)
   
Again, that is your assumption, you don't know what is and what isn't wrong here. Kishi was the one who added the data to the databooks and he is the one who makes the manga, he simply either forgot or contradicted a few things, whatever errors he made he will correct in the tankobon and the databook 4, you are not Kishimoto yourself and he never addressed this issue either so stop acting like "he said it himself" or "in an interview".. wait til the tankobon and wait til databook 4, then we will confirm more things with those. So far we should just put it that he was 13 during the Kannabi Bridge incident and leave his current age blank until it is genuinely confirmed by the man himself, also ShounenSuki found an ingenious method on discovering academy graduation times with their Ninja Registration numbers, look at Obito, Gai, Rin and Kakashi's reg numbers and tell me what you get when combined with their other databook information.. [[Special:Contributions/173.66.119.89|173.66.119.89]] ([[User talk:173.66.119.89|talk]]) 19:27, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
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The basic problem we have is: How could Obito use Senjutsu without the markings and all that stuff? Normally, it shouldn't be possible. The only explanation I can think of is that he didn't get any markings because he didn't absorb pure natural energy, but Senjutsu chakra. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|]]</sup> 08:02, March 4, 2014 (UTC)
   
* "whatever errors he made he will correct in the tankobon and databook 4" that's what I said, I don't disagree, so what's your point?
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He used it temporarily to block the orbs that were shot at him right? Maybe Kishi just didn't even bother to draw it, or the tankobon will have it? [[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] ([[User talk:ItachiWasAHero|talk]]) 11:09, March 4, 2014 (UTC)
* "you are not Kishimotot yourself and he never adressed this issue either s stop acting" Thank you for letting me know I do not write manga, also he did, I'm not a very good actor, sorry
 
* So? I'm okay with leaving his age as "13" the point of this is, that he ain't as old as Kakashi, thus putting 29-30 in there is premature
 
* With all due respect to Suki-sensei, he was also the one to screw up with the "safe to assume all Genin members of Team Minato are the same old" This brought the phenomenon that have spread all over the fandom, as a confirmation of Kakashi graduation age being 13 (since Obito "died" as 13) both databooks and chapter 599 prove this to be false, not to mention it's Kishimoto > everyone else.
 
No worries, I wouldn't work with assumption here, just canonical facts.
 
For now as of it is, Kakashi turned Jounin at 9 and Obito is 34. Before you say, "retcon blah blah wait for up-to-date blah blah" then information will be updated as changes and additions are being made.
 
--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:46, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
Again. It was you who said Tobi couldn't be Obito because he looked too old to be 14 when he fought Minato. I'm going by that same logic here.. Kakashi doesn't look even close to 6 in chapter 599, so I'm going to assume it was a mistake on Kishi's part. Kishi's made it abundantly clear that he can draw younger characters, so there's absolutely no excuse for the mistake in 599 besides Kishi simply forgetting when Kakashi became chunin or he changed his mind on the timeline. Either way, to assume Kakashi was 6 in 599 is ridiculous. And that's putting it nicely. I'm not contradicting canonical facts here, I'm simply pointing out that 599 was a rushed chapter, as seen with Obito's white hair in a single panel, and Minato's statue. And I definitely wouldn't put it past Kishimoto to simply forget when Kakashi became a chunin. Obviously this can't be resolved by anybody but Kishi. --[[Special:Contributions/174.4.131.186|174.4.131.186]] ([[User talk:174.4.131.186|talk]]) 20:28, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
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Was it ever stated that the Sennin Mode is the inevitable result of absorbing natural energy? Because since the Sennin Mode is a Senjutsu, I'm thinking that a Senjutsu user doesn't need to enter Sennin Mode to use Senjutsu. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|]]</sup> 11:19, March 4, 2014 (UTC)
   
Yes, before it was made clear, that Suki's sensei statement is incorrect.
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So much speculation... no, Sage Transformation isn't "just" another name for Sage Mode until we are told otherwise for a simple reason: Jugo and his clan call their usage of Sage Mode as Sage Transformation yes, but we were never told they use it as a general/broad term for the phenomena '''outside''' of their clan, it's likely it refers only their own specific usage alone, which is different. For all I could care, if dogs were to be called cats somewhere in the world because a specific breed of a dog would resemble a cat, that wouldn't mean all dogs are suddenly to be called cats just because some call one so.
We can always wait for the Tankobon, but if it won't be changed, please don't tell me he made the mistake a few times in a row.
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For Madara, we don't even know if he ever met and heard a Jugo Clan's member use the term "Senninka" Madara hardly knows anything about Sage Mode, he could call it come at me from behind because he doesn't know better. But just for the sake of it Seelentau, did the word "Senninka" Madara used have even the same Kanji as Jugo's?
Also he didn't forget, the chapter even shows Kakashi becoming a Chunin. It was a year after Academy graduation, both in manga and databook, there's no contradiction.
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And to answer your question (we people here argued about this topic some time ago and I oppose it still) We were never told nor has it been shown that Sage Mode is something that has to be activated rather than being automatic. Quite the contrary in fact, just refer to the magical toad oil which makes your skin suck in natural energy. After an application of it, Naruto automatically entered incomplete Sage Mode, so there's no way to have Senjutsu chakra without being in Sage Mode, because the latter is a result of the former and isn't even a technique that has to be used, it simply is a state/automatic bodily response.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:51, March 4, 2014 (UTC)
I wouldn't mix drawing mistakes with canonical/timeline ones. It's hard to draw a young looking Kakashi, taking into consideration most of his face is concealed with a mask, and he wasn't shown with many facial expressions due to this.
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:I really don't want to discuss this again. I figured the whole topic out, but it's not my job to convince you guys. But yes, Jugo and Madara use the same term. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 13:59, March 4, 2014 (UTC)
It's simply a fail, you can even notice that he looks much older in face when defeating Guy, than he does in the Gaiden, which happens years after.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 02:31, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
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::Thanks. And ditto, I still am positive you interpret it wrong :-/ but I'm not a preacher either. I could repeat myself for days to come and it wouldn't change a thing. But the topic shouldn't be dismissed completely, Jugo should be listed as a user of Sage Mode at least, that I agree with.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:30, March 4, 2014 (UTC)
   
How is it hard to draw a young looking Kakashi? Kishi pulled it off just fine in the beginning of the chapter, where he actually does look 6. The contradiction is that Kakashi doesn't look anywhere close to 6 in the Chunin Exams. He looks even older than he did in Kakashi Gaiden, so that's another reason why I think Kishi lazily wrote the flashback portions of the chapter. Still, I agree, we should still wait for Databook 4, and if the ages are still the same, then it is what it is. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 03:23, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
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== Infobox tabs? ==
   
== Info ==
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I know this has probably been brought up before, but are they really necessary? Why don't we just use the Obito image and put the Tobi image in the appearance section? --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 19:09, March 18, 2014 (UTC)
How come the newer information of Obito and pictures haven't been added to his page for the beginning of his flash back of him first having on Spiral Zetsu aka Tobi. {{unsigned|65.48.143.145}}
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:^This, I was wondering the same thing. Thanks for bringing this one up. ~[[User:IndxcvNovelist|IndxcvNovelist]] <sup>([[User talk:IndxcvNovelist|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/IndxcvNovelist|contribs]] | [[w:c:phoenixrising|PR]] | [[w:c:rockleespinoff|RLS]])</sup> 19:10, March 18, 2014 (UTC)
:They have, do us the favour of actually reading the article. Images are only added if there is enough text to distribute them through it. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 00:55, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
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::I agree --{{User:Admiral Sugar/Sig2}} 19:25, March 18, 2014 (UTC)
   
I was wondering why does Obito's page also only have his stats from before his death? {{unsigned|65.48.143.145}}
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For a good chunk of his life he wore a mask, from 14 all the way until 31. So I am kind of torn on this one. [[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] ([[User talk:ItachiWasAHero|talk]]) 01:24, March 19, 2014 (UTC)
:Because they're the only ones that were published in the databooks. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 01:37, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
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:Yes, but now that we have seen his face, should we just add the mask on his appearance section? ~[[User:IndxcvNovelist|IndxcvNovelist]] <sup>([[User talk:IndxcvNovelist|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/IndxcvNovelist|contribs]] | [[w:c:phoenixrising|PR]] | [[w:c:springtimeofyouth|RLS]])</sup> 14:09, March 19, 2014 (UTC)
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::He has a mask as his "Tobi" tab for the same reason a bunch of other characters have tabs for Anime/Manga, Part I/Part II ect. Basically, mask Tobi is more iconic than unmasked Obito (no matter how much you like to think), and the very existence of tabs are to avoid the unnecessary "I want this image! No I want this image!" scenario.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 17:58, March 19, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Plus, the majority of his appearance in the anime/manga was with a mask, so people are more likely to see him as such. Just showcasing him without one will lead to unnecessary spoilers for those who haven't yet reached the current events of the anime / manga. --[[User:Speysider|Speysider]] <sup><small>[[User_talk:Speysider|Talk Page]] | [[User:Speysider/Images|My Image Uploads]] | [[User:Speysider/Tabber Code|Tabber Code]] | [http://youtube.com/LPSajuuk Channel]</small></sup> 18:01, March 19, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Obito's Arm ==
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That's kind of a moot point, since his unmasked image is the default photo. Besides, we don't really make decisions with, "Oh we need to avoid unnecessary spoilers" in mind. This wiki's full of spoilers, and it doesn't accommodate people who aren't caught up. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 16:30, March 25, 2014 (UTC)
   
In the last page of chapter 605, Obito's arm is not visible, yet there is a giant tree to the immediate right of him. Am I the only one thinking that he lost control, like Danzo, and his arm was swallowed whole by the Senju DNA? --[[User:Uchiha Suraku|Uchiha Suraku]] ([[User talk:Uchiha Suraku|talk]]) 04:13, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
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:It also does not solely cater to the people who are "caught up". Following your logic, Part I images should be removed from infoboxes since the Part II images are already there and unmasked Kakashi should someday replace masked Kakashi.
:Doesn't look like it.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 11:47, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
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:This is, what, your third proposal relating to Obito's infobox image. Why are you so concerned about it? '''''~[[User:Snapper2|Snapper]][[User talk:Snapper2|T]][[Special:Contributions/Snapper2|o]]''''' 17:28, March 25, 2014 (UTC)
   
So you don't think the right side of his body looks irregular and the cloak had been torn as if a massive tree had ripped through? --[[User:Uchiha Suraku|Uchiha Suraku]] ([[User talk:Uchiha Suraku|talk]]) 18:05, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
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== Mask Color ==
:Ohhh, I see what you mean now. The giant tree structure is in fact coming from his right hand but it doesn't seem like he's lost control of the DNA.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 18:17, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
Well, perhaps not, but it's the same concept as when Danzo's arm was engulfed by a tree. --[[User:Uchiha Suraku|Uchiha Suraku]] ([[User talk:Uchiha Suraku|talk]]) 18:47, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
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The latest episode with Obito as Madara during the time when he assisted Itachi in wiping out the Uchiha Clan had his flame-patterned mask as a red-orange. I thought it was always yellow. Was this a different mask, did the color fade over time, or was this a mistake? [[User:Diamonddeath|Diamonddeath]] ([[User talk:Diamonddeath|talk]]) 22:47, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
:Except that Danzō needed to break it off before his entire body got turned into a tree while Obito seems "fine" there. Maybe the next chapter will bring something different into play but from those frames it doesn't seem like his body is turning into a tree but simply a cruder looking replica of what Yamato normally does.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 12:10, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
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:I don't recall a yellow mask, but blame it on lighting--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:27, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
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Maybe it was just dulled from being nighttime when he attacked Hidden Leaf with Kurama and fought Minato. At the very least, in Ultimate Ninja Storm 3, Masked Man's mask is more yellow than orange, but that could be chalked up to being a mistake. [[User:Diamonddeath|Diamonddeath]] ([[User talk:Diamonddeath|talk]]) 02:14, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
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::I recall it was light orange, so perhaps under certain lighting conditions it might appear yellowish--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 14:34, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
   
Well, it seems like he would've snapped the tree off like he did numerous times with Piercing Branch or whatever, especially since he's done fighting for now.
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== heartless ?? ==
   
But yeah, I guess we'll see. --[[User:Uchiha Suraku|Uchiha Suraku]] ([[User talk:Uchiha Suraku|talk]]) 16:49, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
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judging by the talk between Obito and Madara , Obito is actually really heartless .. when the scene with kakashi stabbing him was shown many people thought it was a genjutsu but now that mean he is actually living with no heart!--[[User:Tchad1|Tchad1]] ([[User talk:Tchad1|talk]]) 07:08, May 7, 2014 (UTC)
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:It was destroyed by Kakashi and subsequently restored when Obito became the Ten-Tails' jinchuriki.[[User:JOA20|JOA20]] ([[User talk:JOA20|talk]]) 07:37, May 7, 2014 (UTC)
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::Probably even before. Remember that half of Obito's upper body is a White Zetsu goo, meaning Hashirama's cells. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 12:29, May 7, 2014 (UTC)
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:::You are mistaken. The first time Kakashi stabbed Obito's heart, it '''indeed was''' a genjutsu. Afterwards, Kakashi stabbed his heart for real. The seal was applied onto Obito's old heart. A new heart obviously has grown because Hash regen + all the Shinju stuff.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:44, May 7, 2014 (UTC)
   
::Speaking of arms, Obito has his right side replaced with a regenerative body, right? Now maybe it's just me, but in the anime, when he fights the 4th and gets hit by his Rasengan, it seems that his left arm is damaged. Am I looking at it incorrectly? [[Special:Contributions/24.63.48.105|24.63.48.105]] ([[User talk:24.63.48.105|talk]]) 15:27, October 27, 2012 (UTC)
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== Deceased? ==
   
== Obito Uchiha a Missing-Nin? ==
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Are we sure that he is actually dead? Madara said that he was "no more", but this could be because Black Zetsu has completely possessed his body. [[User:Patsoumas1995|Patsoumas1995]] ([[User talk:Patsoumas1995|talk]]) 11:56, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
   
I don't think he's technically a Missing-Nin I mean everyone in Konoha thinks Obito Uchiha's dead but he was alive committing various crime as Tobi or Madara Uchiha.
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: I think we should list him as "Presumed Deceased" for now. --[[User:Chrillbill|Chrillbill]] ([[User talk:Chrillbill|talk]]) 12:01, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
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::He was close to death so many times that I think it would be best to label him as presumably deceased for now--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:17, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Hell at this point I would go with Incapacitated. He's not supposed to die at all until Black Zetsu is removed form him right?--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 12:19, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
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::::I guess. I still expect him now that he has both eyes to unlock his "true" power, overwhelm BZ (again) awake his own Rinnegan and pull out a redemption card.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:26, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::Gods I hope not. He already redeemed himself when he was having inappropriate relations with Madara's colon and saving Naruto.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 12:34, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
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I also think he should be listed as presumed deceased. [[User:Munchvtec|Munchvtec]] ([[User talk:Munchvtec|talk]]) 12:39, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
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:Incapacitated or Presumed Deceased, that's what I'd go with.--[[User:JOA20|JOA20]] ([[User talk:JOA20|talk]]) 13:17, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
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:: Wasn't Black Zetsu only keeping Obito alive in the first place so he could retrieve Madara's Rinnegan, which happened last chapter? Thus I don't think he's alive anymore, and Black Zetsu is just using his body as a meat puppet. Also Obito wasn't breathing, his eye was closed too.--[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 19:55, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Didn't he say something like "Obito will remain alive as long as I'm bonded with him" earlier? He's certainly out cold right now, I don't think he's actually dead. His redemption will still be milked a bit more. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 22:09, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
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::Obito already did his part, he saved and helped power up Naruto. Black Zetsu needed to keep Obito alive long enough for him to retrieve Madara's Rinnegan, which has happened. Then we see this chapter that Black Zetsu says Obito's gone, he isn't breathing and his eye is closed. Pretty clear cut that he's dead.--[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 00:01, May 15, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Ok I'm confused, in the Return of Madara Arc section, it's stated he died when Madara took his eye, and that BZ took over his corpse, yet his status is "Incapacitated"? I can't change his status since someone has prevented it from getting edited. --[[User:Chrillbill|Chrillbill]] ([[User talk:Chrillbill|talk]]) 05:01, May 18, 2014 (UTC)
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::::He's pretty clearly not dead. Kishi wouldn't off-screen a death of a major character and it was also stated that as long as Black Zetsu is attached, he's alive. Also, if Black Zetsu could control a corpse of Obito, he wouldn't have kept him alive for so long. It's clear that he needs him living, with chakra still circulating to use his powers. [[User:Kenny U|Kenny U]] ([[User talk:Kenny U|talk]]) Kenny U
   
It was only when Naruto destroy his mask when his real identity was revealed and the fact wasn't revealed to the public yet. --[[User:Cococrash11|Cococrash11]] ([[User talk:Cococrash11|talk]]) 00:09, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
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He clearly is dead, Zetsu speaks of him in the past tense. Zetsu '''was''' keeping Obito alive for as long as his body would hold out. Essentially, he was maximising the potential but potential reaches an end point at some point or other, and it has. [[User:Pesa123456789|Pesa123456789]] ([[User talk:Pesa123456789|talk]]) 17:03, May 21, 2014 (UTC)
:Has he returned to the village? Does he hold any allegiance to the village any more?--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 12:09, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
That was his identity of Tobi, and Madara Uchiha. The Ninja World didn't know that Obito Uchiha is a Missing-Nin to the public yet. --[[User:Cococrash11|Cococrash11]] ([[User talk:Cococrash11|talk]]) 19:42, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
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:: You are kidding yourself if you seriously think Kishi would seriously kill a major character off-screen without so much as a flashback. You're as bad as those people who honestly thought Bee was dead.--[[User:Kenny U|Kenny U]] ([[User talk:Kenny U|talk]]) 23:40, May 22, 2014 (UTC)
:But we know. He went as far as to attack the village and from all outward appearances, he holds no allegiance to the village any more.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 22:29, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
So the information is for us and it's for their world to find out sooner or later. --[[User:Cococrash11|Cococrash11]] ([[User talk:Cococrash11|talk]]) 06:45, October 16, 2012 (UTC)
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::::The correct status to put on the wikia is incapacitated because we have no confirmation about his death. But obviously Obito is still alive, Kishimoto would not ever kill a main character off panel, especially not a tragic one as Obito needing of a closure for his life: the accomplishment of his "mission" to save the world and pathos scenes of reconciliation, where the main heroes will end to consider him again a full comrade. More, Madara has just admitted him to be the responsible for the tragedies of his life and the death of his most loved person: there is a classic clichè in the fictions when the bad guy reveal manipulations/wrongdoings toward a main good guy because arrogantly sure to have already won, in the end the victim get his payback becoming responsible for the persecutor's fall. Without cut anything to the future performances of Naruto and Sasuke able to save the world, we can expect that Obito will get just a parallel role to them--[[User:JK88|JK88]] ([[User talk:JK88|talk]]) 17:35, May 23, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Second Six Path Title belongs to Madara, not Obito ==
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Given that he wasn't affected by Infinte Tsukuyomi, I think Obito should be considered dead, since it affected even those who were sleeping. I see no reason to consider that he can be alive in some way. [[User talk:Guilherme Abe|Abe]] 18:18,5/25/2014
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: And I'm making a decision to end this pointless argument. Zetsu stated that as long as he remains bonded to Obito, he remains alive. So "Incapacitated" is the appropriate designation as far as the information we have goes. When we're told he's dead or when Black Zetsu leaves him and we see him die, we'll list him as dead. Keep in mind that Might Guy was supposed to die, for all intents and purposes, when the Eight Gates expired, and Kishi "plotted" him to remain alive, so the same can still happen to Obito. That is all. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 18:33, May 25, 2014 (UTC)
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So, someone decided to claim him dead :D I see the Kirabi case didn't teach you anything, guys. Obito won't die until he has proper resolve, it's obvious from the story point of view. Don't claim anything until stated. BZ never stated Obito would IMMEDIATELY die the moment he separates from him.[[User:Faust-RSI|Faust-RSI]] ([[User talk:Faust-RSI|talk]]) 08:32, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
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: Black Zetsu said he was the only thing keeping Obito alive, so to me at least everything points to him being dead, and I think we should list him as "Deceased" for now, and if for some reason he would wake up and be fine later (which would make no sense) then we change it back. --[[User:Chrillbill|Chrillbill]] ([[User talk:Chrillbill|talk]]) 08:41, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
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I doubt he is dead yet. He didn't even get his flashbacks. --[[User:Costeavladalexandru|Costeavladalexandru]] ([[User talk:Costeavladalexandru|talk]]) 09:49, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
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: @Costeavladalexandru Oh, we've seen more than enough flashbacks of young Obito, Rin and Kakashi. We've already seen what needs to be seen from Obito's past. --[[User:Chrillbill|Chrillbill]] ([[User talk:Chrillbill|talk]]) 09:59, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
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Black Zetsu did say that, but I find it rather unlikely that Obito is either dead, or will remain so for a long time. There was way too much talk about eyes working better as pair for both his Sharingan not being used for something greater. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 11:36, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
   
As of chapter 606, everything Tobi has said he's done under Madara's name has been done by Madara. Including this title. It should be moved. Or at least put on both of them.[[User:MangekyoSasuke|MangekyoSasuke]] ([[User talk:MangekyoSasuke|talk]]) 19:14, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
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It should be presumed deceased for now, people who think Kishi would actually kill off a major character without closure don't know a thing about this manga. Also, there's a reason he wields both his eyes now.--[[User:Kenny U|Kenny U]] ([[User talk:Kenny U|talk]]) 11:49, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
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: Obviously he's dead now. He took a kunai to the hand without regaining consciousness. He wasn't affected by Infinite Tsukuyomi. Black Zetsu explicitly called him dead. He's deceased.--[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 02:14, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
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::No he didn't, Black Zetsu said he was "no more" which could mean a lot of things. Look, he obviously has a role to fill in the narrative since he is one of only 5 people in the world in the vicinity of Kaguya. Until we get real confirmation, don't infer anything ok? We've been over this time and time again, and the exact same argument was made after 656 when Obito used Rinne Tensei. It's better to just wait. --[[User:Kenny U|Kenny U]] ([[User talk:Kenny U|talk]]) 23:21, June 16, 2014 (UTC)
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::: In this case, I'd have to agree. Black Zetsu did say those things, but Kishi is painstakingly attempting to keep Obito in the story. If he was dead, there would've been no reason for Kakashi to "save" him from falling into a river of magma, nor to continue calling out to him in the chapter prior. Kishi still has plans for Obito that may or may not involve death. We should simply put Incapacitated and wait for clarity. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 23:28, June 16, 2014 (UTC)
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:: ...then why wasn't he affected by Mugen Tsukuyomi? Why didn't getting a KUNAI JAMMED IN HIS HAND wake him out? Why didn't the heat of the volcano wake him up? Seriously, everything points to Obito being dead.--[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 02:18, June 17, 2014 (UTC)
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:::# Because you need to have your eyes opened for that. He was unconscious.
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:::# Because he was knocked out cold. Have you ever been knocked unconscious? I have. Twice. You don't wake up until your body tells you to wake up. If he's in a comma, which is worse, even getting the lava ''on him'' wouldn't have woken him up.
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::: In conclusion, you don't know what you're talking about. At all. We don't know that he's dead, so we're not saying so. Capish? Good. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 02:51, June 17, 2014 (UTC)
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:::: ...even unconscious and sleeping people were affected by Mugen Tsukuyomi though. Yamato who was still unconscious inside Spiral Zetsu was taken in. Sleeping people were still taken in. The light from Mugen Tsukuyomi penetrated everything living except for Sasuke's Susano'o which provided a defense. If Obito was alive, he'd have been affected to like everyone else around the world.--[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 23:50, June 17, 2014 (UTC)
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::::: The argument on why he is alive is mainly one based on logic and an understanding on how Kishi writes his story. Kishi did not contrive a way to bring Obito to the final fight only for him to just be a corpse and serve no purpose. He did not have both Naruto and Kakashi show concern for his overall safety and save him if they knew he was dead (Naruto especially would react differently to a corpse than he would a living person). Furthermore there is a gap of time between Madara revealing his involvement in Rin's death and him and Obito returning from the Kamui dimension that is still unaccounted for. Anything could have happened during that time, including Madara putting Obito in a deep genjutsu (the last panels of them in the Kamui dimension feature Madara using the sharingan in a similar way Obito did to Kakashi when he genjutsu'd him) which would have made him avoid the Mugen Tsukuyomi. I bet you assumed he was dead after 636 when Madara tried to force him to use Rinne Tensei, or in 656 when he actually used Rinne Tensei, or even during many times after that. In situations like this it is best to wait for actual confirmation from the manga and not make assumptions like many have done in the past, please try to understand this time. --[[User:Kenny U|Kenny U]] ([[User talk:Kenny U|talk]]) 22:47, June 18, 2014 (UTC)
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Guess now we can finally put this discussion to rest right? Next time, can everyone not jump to conclusions? It's best if we wait for official confirmation rather than vague statements from Black Zetsu.--[[User:Kenny U|Kenny U]] ([[User talk:Kenny U|talk]]) 13:32, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
   
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Madara_Uchiha#Second_Rikudou still ignored--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:51, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
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== kirigakure ==
   
== Starting up the name debate again ==
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how was obito uchiha affiliated with kirigakure??? ([[User:Sharoze001|Sharoze001]] ([[User talk:Sharoze001|talk]]) 22:03, May 14, 2014 (UTC))
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:He controlled Kirigakure via Yagura for an undisclosed amount of time. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 22:09, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
   
I think in light of the new chapter, we really should switch all references to the name Tobi in background and plot overview and replace it with his original name. Because from how it looks, Tobi was an alias Obito only really used a little bit in part 2 until he revealed himself as "Madara Uchiha". The latest chapter clearly shows him adopting Madara's name first, so I really don't see any reason to treat his Tobi alias as anything but a very brief, and very temporary name he used for the first half of part 2. It shouldn't be used to describe him in 70% of the article. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 04:26, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
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== Both eyes? ==
:So, what should we use?~{{User:UltimateSupreme/Sig}} 04:34, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
What else would we use? For the plot overview and background, we'd replace every use of the name Tobi with Obito. Since Tobi is an alias and we know who he is now, there's no sense really using it aside from the info card and the references at the beginning of the article. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 05:12, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
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Did he gets his right eye back? It's hard to tell if that's Black Zetsu's eye or his own. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 22:31, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
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:BZ does if you want to get technical--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:50, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
   
Here's an example of why we shouldn't do this and immediately check it out. [[Furido]] aka [[Kazuma]].--[[User:Droidkaju|Droidkaju]] ([[User talk:Droidkaju|talk]]) 05:16, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
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== Obito Falling ==
:(EC)I am Ok with changing it.~{{User:UltimateSupreme/Sig}} 05:22, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
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OBito's body did not fall to the ground only as stated here " Obito died as a result as his body fell to the ground, much to the chagrin of a solemn Kakashi." He actually teleported with the others. You can see ned to the waterfall (lava fall lol?) behind Kaguya. {{unsigned|Rex-05|08:38, June 4, 2014 (UTC)}}
   
The difference is, Obito was only directly referred to as Tobi for a small portion of the series. On top of it just being an alias, it's messy to refer to him as Obito on one portion of the article and then Tobi on another. Since we already know who he is, and the latest chapter confirms that he was using Madara's name from the start, and not Tobi, it seems appropriate to just call him Obito. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 05:28, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
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This is true, Obito is seen falling along side the others, and I highly doubt it's for him to just plop into a vat of lava. --[[User:Kenny U|Kenny U]] ([[User talk:Kenny U|talk]]) 11:53, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
   
It is not messy. What is messy is using anachronism and referring to him as places where he was referred to as Tobi or Madara, or going through every section and essentially inserting "spoilers" every instance where another name may be used. Calling Obito Tobi in some cases or even Madara should be as natural as calling Sakumo "Konoha's White Fang" or the tailed beasts by their generic titles sometimes; it's just a moniker. I know this wiki is full of spoilers but in most cases the reading flows better when the name Tobi is used instead of Obito. By now everybody should know that they're one in the same, and we have redirects.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 11:04, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
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== New infobox pic ==
   
I'm completely okay with calling him "Madara" with quotes on portions of the wiki where he uses the name. Like, for the background section of the article, one part of it is labeled, "Becoming Tobi." But since we know he never adapted that alias at any point in his past, we should change that to Becoming "Madara" as an example. And for the portions of the plot overview where he uses Madara's name, we'd change it up accordingly. I actually think that would work equally well to calling him Obito throughout the entire article, imo. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 18:38, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
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I don't really like that his current one is so close-up, so what you say about [[:File:Obito Uchiha new.png | this]]? --[[User:Kasan94|<font color="#3B0B0B">'''Kasan94'''</font>]] [[File:Nara Symbol.svg|20px]] <sub>[[User_talk:Kasan94|''Talkpage'']]</sub> 14:02, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
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:That's a lot better... the current one is too zoomed in on his face. --[[User:KirinNOTKarin98|KirinNOTKarin98]] ([[User talk:KirinNOTKarin98|talk]]) 15:48, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
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:: I agree with you on that. I'll just change it, can always be reverted if someone thinks otherwise --[[User:Kasan94|<font color="#3B0B0B">'''Kasan94'''</font>]] [[File:Nara Symbol.svg|20px]] <sub>[[User_talk:Kasan94|''Talkpage'']]</sub> 15:51, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
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:::And to finish, one person chiming in is not enough. I am neutral on changing the image. Give other people a chance to voice their opinion and then have at it.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 18:03, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
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:::: That is why I said it could always be reverted later. --[[User:Kasan94|<font color="#3B0B0B">'''Kasan94'''</font>]] [[File:Nara Symbol.svg|20px]] <sub>[[User_talk:Kasan94|''Talkpage'']]</sub> 18:05, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::The current one is better in my opinion.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 20:12, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
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::::::I prefer the previous one. [[User:Norleon|Norleon]] ([[User talk:Norleon|talk]]) 22:11, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
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::::::: Why if I may ask Norleon? :) --[[User:Kasan94|<font color="#3B0B0B">'''Kasan94'''</font>]] [[File:Nara Symbol.svg|20px]] <sub>[[User_talk:Kasan94|''Talkpage'']]</sub> 23:17, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
   
:I will say this, I hate using names with quotes. Strongly. It looks, for lack of a better word, stupid. Going from there, the reason Tobi is used in sections where he was otherwise going as Madara is because of the revelation that Madara was dead. Using Tobi for those parts works just as well and doesn't get stupid with two Madara's on the site.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 19:09, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
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The proposed one is terrible in overall image quality. EDIT: If the photo must be changed to something less close up, however, I can start finding more options for you guys to choose from, starting with [[:File:Obito proposal.png | this]]. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 06:36, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
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:Because I prefer close-up images for infoboxes, maybe with a bit of the shoulder area shown at best. Also, with the previous one, we have a perspective that shows his face in a frontal view while in the new one, he looks a bit sidewards.
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:The second proposal is even less an option in my opinion, Obito looks too stereotypical evil on it. [[User:Norleon|Norleon]] ([[User talk:Norleon|talk]]) 11:18, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
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::There was a pic someone put on the infobox recently, think it was from Chrillbill (excuse spelling typos in that :P) that looked decent. Can't remember when it was, but it was fairly recently... --[[User:Speysider|Speysider]] <sup><small>[[User_talk:Speysider|Talk Page]] | [[User:Speysider/Images|My Image Uploads]] | [[User:Speysider/Tabber Code|Tabber Code]] | [http://youtube.com/LPSajuuk Channel]</small></sup> 12:15, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
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:::You mean [http://imgur.com/QlZaJxg this one]? --[[User:Chrillbill|Chrillbill]] ([[User talk:Chrillbill|talk]]) 12:54, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
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:::: The one from Chrillbill, is better than the one from Mandon, from my point of view at least. But still prefer the one I uploaded, even though it is a bit sideways. --[[User:Kasan94|<font color="#3B0B0B">'''Kasan94'''</font>]] [[File:Nara Symbol.svg|20px]] <sub>[[User_talk:Kasan94|''Talkpage'']]</sub> 13:41, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
   
::uh, it's easy: Everything he does as Obito is labeled as Obito's doing. Everything he does as Madara is labeled as Madara's doing and everything he does as Tobi is labeled as Tobi's doing. He was Obito when he was young, Madara after the real Madara died and Tobi when he joined Akatsuki. Madara and Tobi are equivalent nicknames, if we somewhere state that Tobi has done something, we can also state somewhere that Madara has done something. If we explain that Obito only took on the name of Madara, every reader will know who is who. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau ]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|]]</sup> 19:16, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
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How about [[:File:Obito Uchiha2.png | this]] one then? It's further away than the current, bit still closer than my [[:File:Obito Uchiha new.png |previous]] suggestion. It has a better angle than [[:File:Obito proposal.png | the one]] from Mandon. And it is a bit like [http://imgur.com/QlZaJxg the one] from Chrillbill, except both his arms are down who he doesn't look so big. --[[User:Kasan94|<font color="#3B0B0B">'''Kasan94'''</font>]] [[File:Nara Symbol.svg|20px]] <sub>[[User_talk:Kasan94|''Talkpage'']]</sub> 14:35, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
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:Yeah, that one looks pretty good Kasan. --[[User:Speysider|Speysider]] <sup><small>[[User_talk:Speysider|Talk Page]] | [[User:Speysider/Images|My Image Uploads]] | [[User:Speysider/Tabber Code|Tabber Code]] | [http://youtube.com/LPSajuuk Channel]</small></sup> 21:53, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
   
But then it gets even more convoluted than it is already. It kind of adds to the problem of inconsistency when we have Obito labeled with 3 names instead of 1. We have enough information to confirm that everything Obito did as Tobi and "Madara" were things he did consciously as Obito, so there's little point in calling him by any alias. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 21:32, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
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:: Great, think I'll wait to change it this time though, until more responds. --[[User:Kasan94|<font color="#3B0B0B">'''Kasan94'''</font>]] [[File:Nara Symbol.svg|20px]] <sub>[[User_talk:Kasan94|''Talkpage'']]</sub> 21:56, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
:Except that it would take away the purpose of him taking on these names. Of course we should write that it was consciously him at the beginning of this article, but afterwards we should call him by the names he took on at that time. Because you know, if we really don't want to call him by any names, we should call him 'Nobody', since he also dropped his old name. All or none. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 22:28, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
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:::{{Support}} Yeah, your last uploaded image is the best for Obito. —[[User:Shakhmoot|<font color="blue">'''Shakhmoot'''</font>]] [[File:Nadeshiko Village Symbol.svg|20px]] [[User talk:Shakhmoot|<sub>(Talk)</sub>]] 22:47, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
   
So why are we calling him Tobi in portions where he didn't use the name? Either we call him Tobi and Madara on appropriate parts of the article or we call him Obito everywhere he's mentioned. The best course of action right now is to see what the majority wants. Obviously I'm in favor of changing it to Obito everywhere else, but I also think calling him "Madara" or Masked Man on parts of the article where he's wearing the mask is also a good compromise. But calling him Tobi on parts where he didn't use the name? Since it was used as a placeholder for Obito's name until we discovered his identity after the revelation of Edo Madara, I see no use to use it for the article anymore, except on the infobox and beginning of the article. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 00:05, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
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== Abilities he didn't use? ==
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Wait, Obito didn't use most of the paths, right? Did he use the absorption soul technique? He didn't use the asura path or any of the path techniques other than the [[Outer Path: Samsara of Heavenly Life Technique]] right?Maybe the summoning of the gedo mazo counts as the animal paths, but this wiki is noting techniques he didn't use or claim to be able to use.--[[User:Deathmailrock|Deathmailrock]] ([[User talk:Deathmailrock|talk]]) 18:33, June 17, 2014 (UTC)
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:Those who possess the Rinnegan can use the [[Six Paths Technique]]. Anyway, Obito stated that he could use the Human Path on Yamato, plus he used at least the Outer Path to control the six reincarnated jinchūriki and to resurrect Madara.--[[User:JOA20|JOA20]] ([[User talk:JOA20|talk]]) 18:52, June 17, 2014 (UTC)
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::Madara taught him '''Six''' Paths Technique, not Two Paths Technique--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:06, June 17, 2014 (UTC)
   
:THeUltimate3 is not at his own computer atm, so I will be speaking here. I want it noted that, according to le databook, "Madara Uchiha put on the mask and began working under the name Tobi". Discrediting the fact that Madara himself clearly didn't do any of this but Obito had, at some point in the past before the start of the story, Obito began operating under the name Tobi. Now, there we go.--[[Special:Contributions/131.118.74.42|131.118.74.42]] ([[User talk:131.118.74.42|talk]]) 00:37, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
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== So far we can't say if Obito was alive or dead. ==
   
That's irrelevant, since it's an outdated databook and the latest chapter clearly shows Obito adopting the Madara alias first. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 02:33, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
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The page state with certainty that Obito died after his last conversation with Madara/falling without Black Zetsu inside him, but actually it's pretty possible that he remained only uncoscious after that his body was controlled by the villains. The words of Black Zetsu depicting his status weren't never been able to give a clear answer (indeed the wikia mentioned him presumed deceased), just as the actions of Kakashi protecting Obito's body from the falling into the lava made think more to the Uchiha being still alive than to Kakashi preserving him for the later intervention of Naruto (when the copyninja hasn't still realized the powers of the boy just as everyone). In addition this chapter gives no evidence if Naruto is healing or reviving him. So I want just say that would be better to talk just about Naruto treating Obito (with the Uchiha giving evidence to be still alive), for postponing a clear statement about an heal or a revive only after to have got more info from the next chapters.--[[User:JK88|JK88]] ([[User talk:JK88|talk]]) 13:24, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
   
:And so "Madara" took up the name Tobi. It hasn't been contradicted.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 02:55, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
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It's very clear that he's alive. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 20:40, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
   
What speaks against doing it as I said? Tobi and Madara are both aliases, the only difference is Madara being a real person and Tobi not. But if we explain beforehand that Obito only took that name, we can use it afterwards without confusing the reader. Then we're saying he changed his nickname to Tobi and call him Tobi from that point on. In the end, when he's talking about being no one and all this, we can explain that matter too, and finally go back to calling him Obito, since his real identity was revealed and he's called Obito by Madara. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|]]</sup> 11:07, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
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:Indeed. Based on the panel with Naruto touching him, he makes a sound. He appears to just be incredibly weak. But Naruto also puts his hand on Obito, and we know what that did to Gai. So maybe Naruto did something. Regardless, he (Obito) is quite alive. --[[User:Taynio|Taynio]] ([[User talk:Taynio|talk]]) 20:50, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
   
But seriously. Am I the only one who thinks we're making this more complicated than it needs to be? It's not even a matter of confusing the reader, it's a matter of having a cleaner, more consistent article. We know who he is.. so why don't we just call him Obito instead of switching his name depending on when he's wearing the mask and when he isn't? There's no point. I'm perfectly willing to do the changes myself, if everyone's for it. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 00:50, October 20, 2012 (UTC)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuoKNZjr8_U Yay! Now we may finally get his second or third (at this point) redemption story.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:02, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
   
:You're not the only one who thinks that, no. I think its dumb too that they refer to him as Tobi everywhere. Tobi, Madara, its ridiculous regardless of what reason you people use to do it. I don't people referring to Minato as just the Fourth Hokage in the sections he was only known as such. You can't really do that with Madara, since the real Madara is around now. I gave up arguing with them after the second time ''I'' brought this issue up. They really should change it, one, because its redundant, two because its unneeded, three because it makes things more convoluted than necessary, four because we don't do it for any other character, five, did I mention it is redundant? But they won't, so I'm not gonna even try again. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 04:51, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
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:Obito has never got his redemption, for it he has to do something active for the save of the world as he wished in the past: returning to his old himself or an eventual mass resurrection were already stated not being things able to accomplish it. Obito rescuing the life of Naruto was the only element that could be seen as a real "world saving", but Obito's promise made to Rin, the foreshadowing of the potential of the two eyes, the last conversation with Madara and the likely parallel of Obito and Madara with Hagoromo and Hamura fighting for saving the world from the Juubi, presuppose a future development involving more actively Obito (and Madara too). More, the importance of Obito's future partecipation to the events has to be seen also under a more general point of view: Hagoromo's philosophy is that the peace is possible only through the collaboration and now very likely we will see people tied by conflictual relationships during all their lifetime (Naruto, Sasuke, Obito, Kakashi, Minato, Hashirama, Madara, Tobirama, in general Uchiha/Indra successors and Senjuu/Ashura successors) doing it through their common efforts against Kaguya, in the process demonstrating so that a mutual understanding is possible.
::I also think that it should be changed.{{User:UltimateSupreme/SigCode}} 04:54, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
Not only that, there's no real standard set for when you call him Tobi and when you don't. On the panel where Obito and Zetsu go looking for Nagato it's listed on the article as, "Obito and Zetsu enact the Moon's Eye Plan" or something. So where does Obito end and Tobi start? There's no real thought put into how we name him in the article since his mask came off, so instead of tiring ourselves trying to decide when we should call him Tobi and when we should call him Obito, why don't we just skip all that and call him Obito? If any admins are available to give us the yes or no to this issue, that would be great. Again, I'm perfectly willing to do all the edits myself if need be. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 18:19, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
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:But by the way all this has nothing to do with my post, I wanted just to put in evidence that it's not clear if Naruto is healing or reviving Obito (and consequently if Obito was or less dead before).--[[User:JK88|JK88]] ([[User talk:JK88|talk]]) 10:25, June 26, 2014 (UTC)
   
This really needs to just stop. I've mentioned this before, and I'll say it again. Tobi does not even consider himself Obito anymore. In fact, he claims Obito is dead with the statement "whether or not 'I' survived is irrelevant." And there's also the fact that he explicitly stated that the name "Obito" no longer held any value to him. Point being, the masked man left all of his past, save for possibly Rin and the pain with her death, behind him. This is also presumably why he becomes paranoid and starts concealing his identity in nearly every instance possible. He no longer wants to be Obito.
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==English Voice Actor==
   
So, looking at it from his perspective, I feel like it makes complete sense that every act performed under "Madara" or Tobi is credited to the latter name since he deems "himself" to be deceased. As to where the alias Tobi should be in place of Obito, I believe it should start either with this past chapter of him using the name "Madara" or when the name "Tobi" surfaces for the first time in the timeline. That's just my two cents. --[[User:Uchiha Suraku|Uchiha Suraku]] ([[User talk:Uchiha Suraku|talk]]) 01:19, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
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Where's the source that it's Vic Mignogna voicing him in Revolution? From what I've been told, he and Shisui aren't in the credits, and it sounds nothing like Vic in the game.
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{{SUBST:User:Sanji The Cook/sig}} 01:52, July 9, 2014 (UTC)
   
You're taking what Obito said entirely out of context. He never said he considers Obito dead or alive, he only said that he was nobody. The fact is, he's Obito, whether he considers himself Obito or not. In a logically written article, Obito would be called Madara in points where he used the name, not Tobi. And that's going by the logic you people use to justify calling him Tobi even though we know who he is. Just stop, he's Obito, so there's no reason to keep switching his name throughout the article. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 01:29, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
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I agree, the voice actor sounds nothing like Vic. It sounds more like Todd Haberkorn.
  +
[[User:MoonKingGuy|MoonKingGuy]] ([[User talk:MoonKingGuy|talk]]) 02:12, July 9, 2014 (UTC)
   
The admins have already expressed their dislike for having quotations in a name or calling him Madara as well and have 2 Madaras in the same article. Zetsu still calls him Tobi, and the man himself would rather be called Tobi than Obito. I personally think he should still be called Tobi even after having the mask destroyed since the mask doesn't really change a person's identity, but whatever, I'm not going to get butthurt over it. You're the one who needs to just drop it and find something better to do rather than bicker all day about substituting an alias for another name. Who. The hell. Cares. --[[User:Uchiha Suraku|Uchiha Suraku]] ([[User talk:Uchiha Suraku|talk]]) 01:56, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
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Yeah, there is a distinct "Death the Kid" vibe I'm getting from that voice. ([[User:TenshoDama96|TenshoDama96]] ([[User talk:TenshoDama96|talk]]) 02:44, July 9, 2014 (UTC))
 
:I would like to apologize now, for not responding sooner, I was waiting for (at least) one more person to say something. That being said, I agree with Uchiha Suraku's reasoning, though my nerd brain looks at it similar to Anakin/Darth Vader at the Star Wars Wiki. In areas of story relevance, such as Background and the Part in Story sections, what they go by is what is used, and I believe that should be reflected in other articles, (for example: Nagato, who's real name is used in his background up until he takes on the name "Pain").--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 02:17, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Well see, if it was just the plot overview that called him Tobi, that would make sense. But the latest chapter seems to point toward Obito never using the alias in the flashback until the beginning of part 2, so at least for the background section I think we should list him as Obito. Especially because it's convoluted to say, "Obito and Zetsu enact the Eye of the Moon Plan" while he's still wearing the mask, and then the next photo using the caption, "Tobi and Minato clash." It's inconsistent and messy, especially because there was no chapter specifying if Obito adapted the alias between meeting Nagato and fighting Minato. I tried to compromise and change the first picture to say, "Tobi and Zetsu enact the blahblahblah" But Droidkaju reversed it because he said it's too early to call him Tobi. So like I said, we need to figure out where Obito ends and Tobi begins with actual facts from the manga. I think a good compromise is calling him Tobi when he actually uses the name, which is mostly on the plot overview section. At least until the flashback proves otherwise and he starts calling himself Tobi. I mean it's your call, and I don't think there's anything wrong with calling him Tobi in context to a timeline where he actually uses the name, but I still don't think it makes sense to call him so in the background section since he adopted Madara's name first. Also, once again you're distorting facts from the manga, Suraku. Obito prefers to be called Tobi than Obito? Are you being serious, or just deliberately misunderstanding Obito's words? He doesn't care what he's called, that was the whole point of what he said. Obito, Tobi, Madara, he doesn't care. He never stated once that he dislikes his original name, he only said that it means nothing to him. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 16:08, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
No, I am not taking anything out of context. The man point blank said he could be called Madara or Tobi to Naruto/B. There was no mention of Obito included in his list of preferred names. Hell, he has yet to even utter the name "Obito" since he donned a mask.
 
 
But, then if we aren't taking the own man's preference into consideration, Zetsu is the next closest reliable source in line. He's been with Obito/Tobi since the beginning of his antagonism, and he too has yet to even mention the name "Obito" since becoming Tobi. So Madara calls him Obito because the name "Tobi" never surfaced when he was still alive, big deal. Madara also doesn't know what Tobi is up to at this point and questions his methods. The structure is currently fine the way it is. Let's move on with something else now. --[[User:Uchiha Suraku|Uchiha Suraku]] ([[User talk:Uchiha Suraku|talk]]) 20:26, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
: Problem with your logic, "'' The man point blank said he could be called Madara or Tobi to Naruto/B. There was no mention of Obito included in his list of preferred names.''"
 
 
: You are looking at this too much from the character's point of view and not the author's. If Kishimoto had Obito say, "Tobi... Madara... Obito... Call me whatever, I don't care." He'd have spoiled his identity then and there. Of COURSE the name wasn't mentioned. Also, that wasn't a "list of preferred names". When you don't ''care'' what your name is, then there is no such thing as preference. Obito is Obito. Aliases don't matter. I think Omnibender's point was fairly valid, though. I never considered the Anakin-Darth Vader thing. However, M4D0N is also correct; where does Obito end and Tobi begin? He was using Madara's name first, after all, and the only people that refer to him as Tobi is Sasori, Deidara, and Zetsu. We can't call him Tobi in all the earlier sections if we don't know when his name was Tobi. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 22:18, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Exactly. The handling of this article is becoming more difficult than it needs to be. Just call him Obito in the background section and leave everything as it is until the sections after his mask is destroyed. Problem solved. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 00:06, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
==Trivia Section==
 
 
All right, this is getting out of hand. Before the trivia that user Droidkaju wishes to put on the page is thoroughly discuss on the talk page, as it should have been from the very beginning, I recommend for the page to lock until a decision is made. All further debate will be done here on the talk page.
 
 
And to respond to Droidkaju's question: What the heck are you talking about? You're making me confuse.--'''[[User:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#FBEC5D;">Ninja</span>]][[User talk:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#87CEFA;">Sheik</span>]]''' 23:25, October 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
I don't know how many times the wording was changed, but I don't have anything against the trivia itself in principle, the thing is, it's very strangely worded. Let me see if I got it straight: when Obito used the swirl mask, we could see the scars on his face, and thought it was because he was old. When he changed to the Rinnegan mask, what do you mean to say happened? [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 00:29, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Yeah, I was kinda confused what what Droidkaju is trying to say, but after I reverted the edit last night, I went into the History and saw yours and Cerez's words to him when you guys also reverted it, as well as Droidkaju's. To me, it just seems like he's pointing out that he just seems old because of his scars. I don't think that's relevant to mention.--'''[[User:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#FBEC5D;">Ninja</span>]][[User talk:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#87CEFA;">Sheik</span>]]''' 00:35, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Since I couldn't explain my trivia in words (and I don't blame, you I sometimes can't clarify my sentences or explain very properly) I'll just show a picture to explain. So look on the new photos page and you'll see what i mean.--[[User:Droidkaju|Droidkaju]] ([[User talk:Droidkaju|talk]]) 00:37, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Ok, in the opening, they put the same scar-like wrinkles he has in the right side of his face in the left side of his face, even though he's not supposed to have them. You mean to point out an animation mistake? I don't recall us ever having that sort of clarity or zoom on his left socket in the manga, one that would show the wrinkles. I can only recall seeing the left eye, with the part of his face hidden in a shadow. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 00:44, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
EDIT CONFLICT: Okay, I see the images. Same as Omni-senpai: Are you pointing out an animation error? His scars aren't as pronounced in Picture 7. And his skin color is also clearly paler. But the scars are still visible. Most of the time his face is hidden in a shadow. Bottom line, when we get a close up of his left eye, the scars are very clearly visible.--'''[[User:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#FBEC5D;">Ninja</span>]][[User talk:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#87CEFA;">Sheik</span>]]''' 00:47, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Now do you see why i think the trivia should go back and that the Obito shouldn't be protected.--[[User:Droidkaju|Droidkaju]] ([[User talk:Droidkaju|talk]]) 00:50, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Not really, no. If it's an animation error, then just but in the Anime-Manga Differences page. Also, you can't expect the animation not to change. It's going to change and keep changing. And it's going to make mistakes. Do you remember Naruto's fight with Pain in [[Planetary Devastation (episode)]]? The animation was simply horrible. And animation is going to make mistakes. That's why we have that section on A-M Differences page.--'''[[User:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#FBEC5D;">Ninja</span>]][[User talk:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#87CEFA;">Sheik</span>]]''' 00:53, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
I think his point is, that in the anime, it's being portrayed as winkles under both of his eyes, while in the manga, it turned out to be scars instead on his right side of face, thus the animators were under the impression that he was old (we can't blame them)--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 01:09, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
The manga equivalent of picture 8, last panel of chapter 514, we see only the eyes, not the skin around them. Definitely an animation change/mistake. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 01:10, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Agreed. :) Droidkaju already made the edit on the A-M D's page already, too.--'''[[User:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#FBEC5D;">Ninja</span>]][[User talk:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#87CEFA;">Sheik</span>]]''' 01:13, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Considering that page, references to manga chapter and pages, as well as episodes are required. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 01:16, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
The animation in the Kurama!Naruto episode wasn't a mistake. It was deliberately surreal. [[Special:Contributions/173.180.88.66|173.180.88.66]] ([[User talk:173.180.88.66|talk]]) 05:56, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== Using his real name in the background section ==
 
 
Chpt 607 is out and the flashback is over. Obito never used his Tobi alias once in the past, so it's pretty much confirmed that he adapted it later down the line. With that being said, there's really no justifiable excuse to calling him Tobi in the background section of the article, and I think we should change it. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 05:52, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
I agree... he is "Tobi" since "joining" Akatsuki it appears, thus calling him that despite him no longer being Tobi makes no sense whatsoever--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 06:39, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
:I'm still going to disagree. I'm still using the databook that after "Madara" disappeared from history, moved as Tobi. But I can see this will be ignored. I will instead move my actions into gutting the background section.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 07:16, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Agreed with Ultimate. In addition, the name "Tobi" is not only used as a name, it is used to depict his drastically altered personality, goals, ideology, etc. This is why there is a section called "Becoming Tobi". However, it would be more accurate to say "Becoming 'Madara'", but I know the admins are against using quotations as a name, thus Tobi will have to suffice. --[[User:Uchiha Suraku|Uchiha Suraku]] ([[User talk:Uchiha Suraku|talk]]) 23:48, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Edit: Well, I just noticed that entire section was removed. As for what reason, I have no idea. Now it just looks like there was never a transition between goofy Obito and the evil Tobi. --[[User:Uchiha Suraku|Uchiha Suraku]] ([[User talk:Uchiha Suraku|talk]]) 23:50, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
:In the end, I had better things to contribute to the wiki than the fight against what he would be called in one section. Changing it from "Becoming Tobi" which caused all this to "Becoming Madara" which was pointless and "Becoming The Man Who Was Nobody" was just really now come on. "Moving the Plan Forward" or whatever it's called now, was the lesser of two evils and we can get on with our lives.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 00:35, October 25, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
:While I understand your dilemma, "Moving the Plan Forward" seems to only indicate that Obito adopted Madara's Eye of the Moon Plan and nothing more. I feel like there should be a stronger title to represent the immense change Obito went through. Perhaps it could be named "A Change of Heart" or something along those lines? --[[User:Uchiha Suraku|Uchiha Suraku]] ([[User talk:Uchiha Suraku|talk]]) 02:42, October 25, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Tobi was just an alias used for infiltrating Akatsuki. If you really wanted to represent that, you could change it to "Becoming nobody" or "Rise of a masked man" or something, but "Becoming Tobi" didn't seem fitting, since he, from what we can tell, never used the name prior to the start of part 2. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 15:26, October 25, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== Trivia ==
 
in CHapter 606: page 6 i think when obito is kneeling with rin, the moon's reflection and the ripples make a rinnegan. Also just a question i cant figure out, when in this chapet or the last did his sleeve get ripped off? i reread and dont see where it just missing in this chapter. {{unsigned|208.124.127.75}}
 
 
:Are you referring to the Obito in the flashback? It's in Ch 605. His sleeve was torn when he unleashed the huge Mokuton jutsu on the Kiri-nin. In 606, he'll break off from it and you can see the torn area. [[Special:Contributions/24.63.48.105|24.63.48.105]] ([[User talk:24.63.48.105|talk]]) 21:21, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== Already shown ==
 
 
Obito's means of finding anyone at any given time is due to the artificial body that he has. By communicating with other hidden zetsu or the black/white zetsu telepathecally he is able to find and locate any person. Should this be added to his profile ? --[[User:Naruto6paths|Naruto6paths]] ([[User talk:Naruto6paths|talk]]) 20:10, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
For more reference, see chapter 604 on page 8. --[[User:Naruto6paths|Naruto6paths]] ([[User talk:Naruto6paths|talk]]) 20:12, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
The several Zetsu can do it, but I wouldn't bet on it just yet. If he could simply learnt stuff directly through Zetsu, he wouldn't have heard from a white Zetsu words of when B and Naruto left the island turtle, and it would also mean that there are several Zetsu scattered around the globe constantly. There weren't that many Zetsu during Madara's last days, or through the majority of the series run. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 21:18, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== Technique Flaw ==
 
 
PLease answer and don't delete. If Obito's teleportation and intangibility are the same thing, how come he doesn't show the swirly thing when he phases through attacks?--[[User:Asian711|Asian711]] ([[User talk:Asian711|talk]]) 20:35, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 
:Probably so we know the difference, or because it would be too time consuming to draw. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 21:18, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== His Age ==
 
 
Shouldn't his age be updated? It still says he's 13 in the profile... [[Special:Contributions/98.242.158.166|98.242.158.166]] ([[User talk:98.242.158.166|talk]]) 03:19, October 27, 2012 (UTC)
 
:No. See previous sections and past archives. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 03:36, October 27, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== Naruto's Parallel ==
 
 
Maybe it's just me, but that's how I see it (not my idea as it's kinda copied from some guy, but I agree):
 
* Both ignored by their peers in the Academy
 
* Both dreamed of being recognized by the village and becoming Hokage
 
* Both following their masters will of bringing peace to the world: Jiraiya and Madara
 
* Both extremely good at convincing and manipulating people with their words (talk no jutsu)
 
* Both in love triangle with their respective teammates
 
* Both were loudmouths
 
* Both wore googles
 
* Both wore blue and orange colored clothes
 
* Obito has Sharingan, Naruto has Kurama (Sharingan controls Kurama, Kurama "gifted" to Naruto so he can fight "Tobi")
 
* Menma in AU has a similar goal/plan and is later possessed by "Tobi"
 
 
I guess they are partially opposites, and Kishi is trying to show us that if it wasn't for Naruto finding friends/support, he would turn into something similar, from a "savior" into a "destroyer"--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:53, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
 
:Maybe. So?— {{User:UltimateSupreme/SigCode|15:57 UTC|Tuesday|6 November 2012}}
 
::A trivia, perhaps?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:59, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
 
:::Hmm... do we really write trivia like that anywhere?— {{User:UltimateSupreme/SigCode|16:02 UTC|Tuesday|6 November 2012}}
 
::::We do not. It falls under junk category.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 16:10, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
 
:::::Thats what I meant.— {{User:UltimateSupreme/SigCode|16:17 UTC|Tuesday|6 November 2012}}
 
 
Hmm, okay. Just thought it to be interesting... how do you define "junk trivia?" --[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 16:40, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
 
:[[User_talk:98.26.240.179|This]].— {{User:UltimateSupreme/SigCode|17:19 UTC|Tuesday|6 November 2012}}
 
 
Personally I think it could be added, but not in that way. The whole thing it could be summarized in 1 or 2 lines. However I would wait the closure of Obito as character before add it. If this (pretty obvious) parallelism is confirmed or mentioned in a Interview to Kishimoto, I think there wouldn't be problem to add it as we would have a trustworthy reference.[[User:Adept-eX|Adept-eX]] ([[User talk:Adept-eX|talk]]) 17:29, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
@Adept, you are right. Maybe it's too early for that, but one can't deny the similarities. Maybe there's gonna be one whole chapter for that...--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 20:57, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
A really shortened version of that is already canon, Itachi made that comparison. That's all that's needed. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 22:30, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Oh, you are right. Is it mentioned somewhere?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:49, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== Addition to the Quotes section ==
 
 
I think that Obito's sentence about his new nindo displayed in the chapter 608 [whatever shinobi you are, you are always trash in this world], should be whorthy to be added in the Quotes section.--[[User:JK88|JK88]] ([[User talk:JK88|talk]]) 14:30, November 10, 2012 (UTC)
 

Latest revision as of 02:44, July 9, 2014

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For previous discussions about this character, see also Talk:Tobi and its archives.

As Yin-Kurama's jinchūriki Edit

In the latest chapter, Madara stated that Obito had both the left Rinnegan and the Yin half of Kurama. Is that enough to put Obito as Yin-Kurama's jinchūriki (though he most likely has already transferred it to Naruto)?--JOA20 (talk) 07:47, February 26, 2014 (UTC)

I don't know why and how, but this chapter says that now Obito possesses Yin Kurama. Should we make respective changes?Faust-RSI (talk) 08:25, February 26, 2014 (UTC)

He *had the Yin Kyuubi. He transferred it to Naruto. But, maybe the community might want to wait for the raws to make an official decision.-NaviiGator (A.K.A.KotoSenju)Talk Page-My Contributions 09:12, February 26, 2014 (UTC)

I'm fairly certain that Obito was the Yin Kurama Jinchuriki for a brief period of time there. He was using a kyuubi chakra arm to pull the beast fragments out of Madara, and when we saw him in Madara in that bijuu mind space place, you can see the Yin Kyuubi floating right above him. As such, I'd say it'd be safe to list him as a past Kyuubi jin. Kenny U (talk) 14:22, February 28, 2014 (UTC)Kenny U

2 things Edit

Shouldn't we list him as a user of chakra absorption? Also I see he is listed as a Sensor, I don't recall, any justification for that?--Elveonora (talk) 10:21, February 26, 2014 (UTC)

Against Sasuke's Amaterasu in chapter 641: "I could sense the build up of chakra in your left eye..."--JOA20 (talk) 11:19, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
But couldn't it have been his sense of sight, he can see chakra? Arrancar79 (talk) 04:50, February 27, 2014 (UTC)

He is most definitely a Sensor type, as he has used sensing abilities to find Minato and Kushina, Sasuke and Itachi, and then Taka, then he said he sensed the Amaterasu build up. I also agree he can absorb Chakra.. I mean Madara did say he turned Obito into himself basically...ItachiWasAHero (talk) 07:56, February 27, 2014 (UTC)

Jinchuriki Edit

Shouldn't Obito have Gedo Mazo be listed as one of Obito's Tailed Beasts in his infobox? It was only for a short time sure, but there nonetheless. Skitts (talk) 17:09, February 26, 2014 (UTC)

The Demonic Statue isn't a tailed beast, so...--JOA20 (talk) 17:10, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
Except, given it's the husk of the Ten Tails and so technically it is, so... Skitts (talk) 17:11, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
It may be similar to a tailed beast, but it has never been stated to be one, not by Madara, Obito or the tailed beasts, who are the ones knowing the most about it.--JOA20 (talk) 17:18, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
It's the Ten-Tails' body, so it clearly is a Tailed Beast by definition. Neither Obito nor Madara have ever referred to Gedo Mazo as a living being either, but clearly we didn't need them to tell us that once we saw it moving and showing behavior and such. Skitts (talk) 17:21, February 26, 2014 (UTC)

Well, if that's your point then we'll have to go by vote. I actually support this. --JOA20 (talk) 17:23, February 26, 2014 (UTC)

It might be the body of a tailed beast, but it's not a tailed beast. Obito wasn't no longer a jinchūriki the moment One-Tail through Seven-Tails and the chakra fragments of Eight and Nine-Tails were removed from him. He's not even a pseudo-jinchūriki, since he no longer had the chakra of an actual tailed beast in him. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:29, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
Omni, the equivalent of what you're saying is if Kurama lost all of its chakra, the person it's sealed in is no longer a jinchuriki, which is self-evidently absurd. After all, Gyuki said that Samehada had absorbed all his chakra during his and B's fight with Kisame, yet we never thought to de-list B as a jinchuriki. It's the being itself that counts, not simply the chakra. Skitts (talk) 17:45, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
Obito was a classified as a jinchuriki when he had the Ten-Tails sealed in him. When it was removed and he was just housing the Demonic Statue, he kept his status as a jinchuriki (same way Gaara kept his status despite Shukaku being removed), but he was no longer a jinchuriki because the Demonic Statue is not a tailed beast.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 18:05, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
If it's a tb, the sage's tools are tb, too. Seelentau 愛 18:16, February 26, 2014 (UTC)

A better discussion seems to be the fact that Obito was the actual jinchūriki of Yin Kurama, not Zetsu. Madara even outright says in this chapter that it is Obito housing Kurama, evidenced by Kurama appearing with him when he went to pull out Madara's beasts, as well as his ability to transfer the beast from himself to Naruto. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 19:02, February 26, 2014 (UTC)

Don't think it's quite that simple. It was very clear that Black Zetsu was the one who took Kurama. Obito was still unconscious when it happened. Either Obito has access to Yin Kurama because he's merged with BZ and is preventing BZ from leaving him, or for some reason, BZ housed Yin Kurama in Obito. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:19, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
If it were that simple for a Zetsu to become a jinchūriki, I wonder why Madara/Obito didn't just "steal" the tailed beasts housing them in Zetsu clones. Madara himself says it: "Obito has both the Yin half of the Nine-Tails and the left Rinnegan..."--JOA20 (talk) 19:44, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
Things have been screwy with this. When Obito was not in control of his body, Black Zetsu was ready to leave Obito's body and take Yin-Kurama with him, meaning Yin-Kurama had to have been in him. However, once Obito got control of the body, he was able to do the transfer.
It is possible that because Black Zetsu is a parasite on Obito's body, once he regained control, he could do whatever he wanted with Black Zetsu and that includes transfering a tailed beast.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 19:46, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
Yes because when he transferes the kyuubi to Naruto, he does from his right side, the side that BZ isn't on. This means that no matter what, something happened so that the kyuubi is inside of Obito now Riptide240 (talk)
Obito might be in control of what happens to it, but it's still in BZ. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:45, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
Even still, he would have to have it in himself first cause he didn't do it from BZ he did it from his own flesh and being Riptide240 (talk) 20:48, February 26, 2014 (UTC)

I don't think BZ has a body in the first place. He's a mass of chakra that leeches on to people. Therefore, he would use the body he's attached to to store any tailed beasts he takes. As chakra, he has no storage place of his own. When leaving the body, he would just hold on to the chakra to take it with him. To say that BZ on his own is a Jinchuuriki is like say a tailed beast can be a jinchuuriki of a tailed beast. Not possible. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 20:58, February 26, 2014 (UTC)

He may not have a body in a traditional sense, but he definitely has a physical composition. He's not an ethereal entity, otherwise there's no way he'd be able to so many things he does, like just a few chapters ago, digging his way through the ground to intercept Yin Kurama. That still doesn't change the fact that when he was going to leave before Obito stopped him, the black mass itself was leaving Obito's body, meaning the black mass itself contained Yin Kurama. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:05, February 26, 2014 (UTC)

Who said chakra was ethereal? If that were the case, the tailed beast would be ghosts. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 21:09, February 26, 2014 (UTC)
Chakra by definition is made up two energies. By ethereal, I mean something like dragon entities that come out of the Demonic Statue of the Outer Path. Sure, they're there, they interact with stuff, but it's not quite mass like a rock or a tree. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:14, February 26, 2014 (UTC)

On topic... @Skitts, the "Ten-Tails/Shinju" isn't even a Tailed Beast, we just classify it as such for some weird reason. Also offtopic, but again I must remind the urgency of merging Gedo Mazo and Shinju articles. Having them separated is like saying that myself with a limb removed would no longer be me but some other person--Elveonora (talk) 23:39, February 26, 2014 (UTC)

I know I used to be in favor of the contrary, but I actually do not support a merger. Also, I kind of don't think the Gedo Mazo should really count as making him a jinchuriki... BUT... I do think the Shinju itself should be separated from the Ten-Tail's page. The Shinju (God Tree) was able to be reproduced by Obito during his duration as its Jinchuriki. But even after being stripped of the Ten-Tails and having all of the Tailed Beast comprising it split up, the Shinju remained fully planted in the ground without being disturbed. This effectively demonstrated that it, after its recreation at least, was able to continue on without and in the absence of the Juubi/Ten-Tails itself, the 9 Chakra Entities which comprised it, and the Gedo Mazo body. So I do not think either Shinju or Gedo Mazo should be counted as Tailed Beasts. After all, they both lack the fundamental chakra tails, even if they are chakra entities in either part or whole.Skarrj (talk) 05:31, February 27, 2014 (UTC)

I would agree that after taking control of his body and BZ Obito just could do anything he wanted with Yin Kurama, while it still was physically in BZ, but him resealing it to Naruto through his normal body AND him using tailed beast chakra arms against Madara suggests that Kurama somehow moved to his body. It's stupid, I know, but that's how Kishi made it.Faust-RSI (talk) 06:35, February 27, 2014 (UTC)

He did take it from Black Zetsu apparently, becoming a temporary nine tails host, then he sealed it into naruto. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 07:57, February 27, 2014 (UTC)

@Skarrj, except the Gedo Mazo IS the Shinju, what's not clear here? What's outside (the tree) is a replica. Kinda like Gaara recreating Shukaku from his sand without unsealing it from within himself in Part I. "Gedo Mazo" is just a nickname given to it by Madara. My body without limbs will still be I, Elveonora. The Shinju without the stripped chakra that are the Tailed Beasts isn't suddenly a different entity. And yes, glad you agree on that the Shinju/Gedo Mazo isn't a Tailed Beast. Tailed Beasts are Sage of Six Path's creations, and he made 9 of them... "Ten-Tails" is a tailed beast in name/label only. So to answer the topic, Obito can't be listed as a host to Gedo Mazo, Shinju, Ten-Tails, because all 3 are the very same entity just in different forms with different given nicknames.--Elveonora (talk) 12:30, February 27, 2014 (UTC)

On the the topic of Obito being Kurama's jinchuuriki, I'm not so sure. After all, it definitely was inside of Black Zetsu and it even tried to separate itself from Obito, trying to bring Kurama to Madara. In my opinion Obito isn't its jinchuuriki, he only has full control over Black Zetsu now, so you could say he is one only "by extension"--Elveonora (talk) 12:32, February 27, 2014 (UTC)

Um, no, the ten tails was explicitly stated to be the original tailed beast, that not something debatable. The rest about the ten tails I'm on the fence on. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 14:57, February 27, 2014 (UTC)

About the Ten-Tails being the original tailed beast, Obito at the Five Kages' Summit stated that it was "the origin of the tailed beasts" in response to Temari's question on wheter it was another tailed beast. So it is not really a tailed beast. It is considered one only because of the numerical tail name, which would put the Zero-Tails as a tailed beast as well, except it isn't.--JOA20 (talk) 16:41, February 27, 2014 (UTC)
People simply didn't know once upon a time there was a Ten-Tails, that doesn't make it less a tailed beast. Want a simple rationale that says it is a tailed beast? What is the definition of a jinchūriki? Someone who has had a tailed beast sealed in them. From the moment we learned about the existence of the Ten-Tails, we were told that Hagoromo was its jinchūriki, which by extension means the Ten-Tails is a tailed beast. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:15, February 27, 2014 (UTC)

Skill with staff Edit

from the recent chapter shouldn't we add his skill to use the staff he has to deflect multiple orbs Madara attacked him withFanking (talk) 21:01, February 26, 2014 (UTC)

Sage Mode user? Edit

After having his power drained from Obito, and Obito subseqeuntly attempting to escape via his own Kamui, he was quickly stopped by two Black Chakra Orbs which he effectively countered with his Chakra Shakujo. HOWEVER... Madara notes that:"It was correct to use Sage Mode. Were you able to suck a little of that power too?". Does this mean Obito also absorbed some of his Senjutsu in the process? Skarrj (talk) 05:34, February 27, 2014 (UTC)

Madara didn't mean SM, read another translation. He just talked about "Rikudo Mode", i.e. staff, chakra cloak etc.Faust-RSI (talk) 06:35, February 27, 2014 (UTC)
I'd still like to see what the RAW has to say about this. Because we may finally have a name for the Ten-Tails jinchūriki form. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 06:54, February 27, 2014 (UTC)
I thought it was a description for that form as well. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:15, February 27, 2014 (UTC)

Take a look at the chapter talk page. ;) Seelentau 愛 16:45, February 28, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, what I said still stays the same. Madara basically says "Transforming into the Sage (not SM user, but the Sage of 6 Paths) only once...". Also, Obito could defend himself from the orbs because the staff is made from the same material. Basically absorbing part of Madara's power enebled him to use Yin-Yang release again.Faust-RSI (talk) 19:51, February 28, 2014 (UTC)

Na, read my translation. ;) Seelentau 愛 00:40, March 1, 2014 (UTC)
I did, it fits perfectly.Faust-RSI (talk) 09:40, March 1, 2014 (UTC)
It doesn't fit what you said above, though. Seelentau 愛 11:56, March 3, 2014 (UTC)

@Faust-RSI i have to agree with Seelentau here you did just say it was Rikudo Mode —This unsigned comment was made by Funsize33 (talkcontribs) .

Regardless of the translation, I'm against listing Obito as a Sage Mode user for the same reason that I'm against listing Madara. They stole Hashirama's Sage chakra (though Obito stole Hashi's from Madara) and have no capacity to use Sage Mode on their own. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 17:26, March 3, 2014 (UTC)

Hmm so Obito used sage mode for a bit, and madara calls it Senninka?? What does the ka at the end actually mean? ItachiWasAHero (talk) 00:31, March 4, 2014 (UTC)

"Senninka" means "Sage Transformation". "-ka" (化) means "transformation". Its the same romanji used to describe Jūgo's clan's transformation, which is basically an unstable Sage Mode. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 03:33, March 4, 2014 (UTC)

So that means Madara and Obito did not use Sage mode since it was imperfect, but instead Sage Transformation... still weird how the hashi face looked just like hashirama in actual sage mode though. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 05:30, March 4, 2014 (UTC)

Not quite. See, Seel translated some lines from the manga, specifically Jūgo's that proves that Sage Transformation is just another name for Sage Mode. In essence, Sage Mode is a type of Sage Transformation, while Jūgo's clan is unable to balance the chakras, meaning that their Sage Transformation doesn't equate to Sage Mode. Its weird, but Madara is using a Sage Mode. Hashirama's Sage Mode, however, not his own. Same for Obito, though I question this, as he didn't gain any of the markings that Madara did. I still think it was refering to the Jinchūriki mode looking like the Sage of Six Paths, but that's just me. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 06:26, March 4, 2014 (UTC)

Considering the Ten tails chakra is equivalent to natural energy, its not completely a stretch to say the jinchuuriki form for ten tails is a form of sage mode. So maybe he's referring to that, considering there's no sage mode marks on Obito. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 06:43, March 4, 2014 (UTC)

The fact that there are no Sage Mode markings doesn't mean that Obito didn't absorb a small portion of senjutsu chakra. At least that's what I got from Madara's reaction.--JOA20 (talk) 07:05, March 4, 2014 (UTC)

The basic problem we have is: How could Obito use Senjutsu without the markings and all that stuff? Normally, it shouldn't be possible. The only explanation I can think of is that he didn't get any markings because he didn't absorb pure natural energy, but Senjutsu chakra. Seelentau 愛 08:02, March 4, 2014 (UTC)

He used it temporarily to block the orbs that were shot at him right? Maybe Kishi just didn't even bother to draw it, or the tankobon will have it? ItachiWasAHero (talk) 11:09, March 4, 2014 (UTC)

Was it ever stated that the Sennin Mode is the inevitable result of absorbing natural energy? Because since the Sennin Mode is a Senjutsu, I'm thinking that a Senjutsu user doesn't need to enter Sennin Mode to use Senjutsu. Seelentau 愛 11:19, March 4, 2014 (UTC)

So much speculation... no, Sage Transformation isn't "just" another name for Sage Mode until we are told otherwise for a simple reason: Jugo and his clan call their usage of Sage Mode as Sage Transformation yes, but we were never told they use it as a general/broad term for the phenomena outside of their clan, it's likely it refers only their own specific usage alone, which is different. For all I could care, if dogs were to be called cats somewhere in the world because a specific breed of a dog would resemble a cat, that wouldn't mean all dogs are suddenly to be called cats just because some call one so. For Madara, we don't even know if he ever met and heard a Jugo Clan's member use the term "Senninka" Madara hardly knows anything about Sage Mode, he could call it come at me from behind because he doesn't know better. But just for the sake of it Seelentau, did the word "Senninka" Madara used have even the same Kanji as Jugo's? And to answer your question (we people here argued about this topic some time ago and I oppose it still) We were never told nor has it been shown that Sage Mode is something that has to be activated rather than being automatic. Quite the contrary in fact, just refer to the magical toad oil which makes your skin suck in natural energy. After an application of it, Naruto automatically entered incomplete Sage Mode, so there's no way to have Senjutsu chakra without being in Sage Mode, because the latter is a result of the former and isn't even a technique that has to be used, it simply is a state/automatic bodily response.--Elveonora (talk) 13:51, March 4, 2014 (UTC)

I really don't want to discuss this again. I figured the whole topic out, but it's not my job to convince you guys. But yes, Jugo and Madara use the same term. Seelentau 愛 13:59, March 4, 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. And ditto, I still am positive you interpret it wrong :-/ but I'm not a preacher either. I could repeat myself for days to come and it wouldn't change a thing. But the topic shouldn't be dismissed completely, Jugo should be listed as a user of Sage Mode at least, that I agree with.--Elveonora (talk) 17:30, March 4, 2014 (UTC)

Infobox tabs? Edit

I know this has probably been brought up before, but are they really necessary? Why don't we just use the Obito image and put the Tobi image in the appearance section? --Mandon (talk) 19:09, March 18, 2014 (UTC)

^This, I was wondering the same thing. Thanks for bringing this one up. ~IndxcvNovelist (talk | contribs | PR | RLS) 19:10, March 18, 2014 (UTC)
I agree --Admiral   Sugar    19:25, March 18, 2014 (UTC)

For a good chunk of his life he wore a mask, from 14 all the way until 31. So I am kind of torn on this one. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 01:24, March 19, 2014 (UTC)

Yes, but now that we have seen his face, should we just add the mask on his appearance section? ~IndxcvNovelist (talk | contribs | PR | RLS) 14:09, March 19, 2014 (UTC)
He has a mask as his "Tobi" tab for the same reason a bunch of other characters have tabs for Anime/Manga, Part I/Part II ect. Basically, mask Tobi is more iconic than unmasked Obito (no matter how much you like to think), and the very existence of tabs are to avoid the unnecessary "I want this image! No I want this image!" scenario.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 17:58, March 19, 2014 (UTC)
Plus, the majority of his appearance in the anime/manga was with a mask, so people are more likely to see him as such. Just showcasing him without one will lead to unnecessary spoilers for those who haven't yet reached the current events of the anime / manga. --Speysider Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | Channel 18:01, March 19, 2014 (UTC)

That's kind of a moot point, since his unmasked image is the default photo. Besides, we don't really make decisions with, "Oh we need to avoid unnecessary spoilers" in mind. This wiki's full of spoilers, and it doesn't accommodate people who aren't caught up. --Mandon (talk) 16:30, March 25, 2014 (UTC)

It also does not solely cater to the people who are "caught up". Following your logic, Part I images should be removed from infoboxes since the Part II images are already there and unmasked Kakashi should someday replace masked Kakashi.
This is, what, your third proposal relating to Obito's infobox image. Why are you so concerned about it? ~SnapperTo 17:28, March 25, 2014 (UTC)

Mask Color Edit

The latest episode with Obito as Madara during the time when he assisted Itachi in wiping out the Uchiha Clan had his flame-patterned mask as a red-orange. I thought it was always yellow. Was this a different mask, did the color fade over time, or was this a mistake? Diamonddeath (talk) 22:47, April 20, 2014 (UTC)

I don't recall a yellow mask, but blame it on lighting--Elveonora (talk) 12:27, April 21, 2014 (UTC)

Maybe it was just dulled from being nighttime when he attacked Hidden Leaf with Kurama and fought Minato. At the very least, in Ultimate Ninja Storm 3, Masked Man's mask is more yellow than orange, but that could be chalked up to being a mistake. Diamonddeath (talk) 02:14, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

I recall it was light orange, so perhaps under certain lighting conditions it might appear yellowish--Elveonora (talk) 14:34, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

heartless ?? Edit

judging by the talk between Obito and Madara , Obito is actually really heartless .. when the scene with kakashi stabbing him was shown many people thought it was a genjutsu but now that mean he is actually living with no heart!--Tchad1 (talk) 07:08, May 7, 2014 (UTC)

It was destroyed by Kakashi and subsequently restored when Obito became the Ten-Tails' jinchuriki.JOA20 (talk) 07:37, May 7, 2014 (UTC)
Probably even before. Remember that half of Obito's upper body is a White Zetsu goo, meaning Hashirama's cells. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 12:29, May 7, 2014 (UTC)
You are mistaken. The first time Kakashi stabbed Obito's heart, it indeed was a genjutsu. Afterwards, Kakashi stabbed his heart for real. The seal was applied onto Obito's old heart. A new heart obviously has grown because Hash regen + all the Shinju stuff.--Elveonora (talk) 13:44, May 7, 2014 (UTC)

Deceased? Edit

Are we sure that he is actually dead? Madara said that he was "no more", but this could be because Black Zetsu has completely possessed his body. Patsoumas1995 (talk) 11:56, May 14, 2014 (UTC)

I think we should list him as "Presumed Deceased" for now. --Chrillbill (talk) 12:01, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
He was close to death so many times that I think it would be best to label him as presumably deceased for now--Elveonora (talk) 12:17, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
Hell at this point I would go with Incapacitated. He's not supposed to die at all until Black Zetsu is removed form him right?--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 12:19, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
I guess. I still expect him now that he has both eyes to unlock his "true" power, overwhelm BZ (again) awake his own Rinnegan and pull out a redemption card.--Elveonora (talk) 12:26, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
Gods I hope not. He already redeemed himself when he was having inappropriate relations with Madara's colon and saving Naruto.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 12:34, May 14, 2014 (UTC)

I also think he should be listed as presumed deceased. Munchvtec (talk) 12:39, May 14, 2014 (UTC)

Incapacitated or Presumed Deceased, that's what I'd go with.--JOA20 (talk) 13:17, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
Wasn't Black Zetsu only keeping Obito alive in the first place so he could retrieve Madara's Rinnegan, which happened last chapter? Thus I don't think he's alive anymore, and Black Zetsu is just using his body as a meat puppet. Also Obito wasn't breathing, his eye was closed too.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 19:55, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
Didn't he say something like "Obito will remain alive as long as I'm bonded with him" earlier? He's certainly out cold right now, I don't think he's actually dead. His redemption will still be milked a bit more. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:09, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
Obito already did his part, he saved and helped power up Naruto. Black Zetsu needed to keep Obito alive long enough for him to retrieve Madara's Rinnegan, which has happened. Then we see this chapter that Black Zetsu says Obito's gone, he isn't breathing and his eye is closed. Pretty clear cut that he's dead.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 00:01, May 15, 2014 (UTC)
Ok I'm confused, in the Return of Madara Arc section, it's stated he died when Madara took his eye, and that BZ took over his corpse, yet his status is "Incapacitated"? I can't change his status since someone has prevented it from getting edited. --Chrillbill (talk) 05:01, May 18, 2014 (UTC)
He's pretty clearly not dead. Kishi wouldn't off-screen a death of a major character and it was also stated that as long as Black Zetsu is attached, he's alive. Also, if Black Zetsu could control a corpse of Obito, he wouldn't have kept him alive for so long. It's clear that he needs him living, with chakra still circulating to use his powers. Kenny U (talk) Kenny U

He clearly is dead, Zetsu speaks of him in the past tense. Zetsu was keeping Obito alive for as long as his body would hold out. Essentially, he was maximising the potential but potential reaches an end point at some point or other, and it has. Pesa123456789 (talk) 17:03, May 21, 2014 (UTC)

You are kidding yourself if you seriously think Kishi would seriously kill a major character off-screen without so much as a flashback. You're as bad as those people who honestly thought Bee was dead.--Kenny U (talk) 23:40, May 22, 2014 (UTC)
The correct status to put on the wikia is incapacitated because we have no confirmation about his death. But obviously Obito is still alive, Kishimoto would not ever kill a main character off panel, especially not a tragic one as Obito needing of a closure for his life: the accomplishment of his "mission" to save the world and pathos scenes of reconciliation, where the main heroes will end to consider him again a full comrade. More, Madara has just admitted him to be the responsible for the tragedies of his life and the death of his most loved person: there is a classic clichè in the fictions when the bad guy reveal manipulations/wrongdoings toward a main good guy because arrogantly sure to have already won, in the end the victim get his payback becoming responsible for the persecutor's fall. Without cut anything to the future performances of Naruto and Sasuke able to save the world, we can expect that Obito will get just a parallel role to them--JK88 (talk) 17:35, May 23, 2014 (UTC)

Given that he wasn't affected by Infinte Tsukuyomi, I think Obito should be considered dead, since it affected even those who were sleeping. I see no reason to consider that he can be alive in some way. Abe 18:18,5/25/2014

And I'm making a decision to end this pointless argument. Zetsu stated that as long as he remains bonded to Obito, he remains alive. So "Incapacitated" is the appropriate designation as far as the information we have goes. When we're told he's dead or when Black Zetsu leaves him and we see him die, we'll list him as dead. Keep in mind that Might Guy was supposed to die, for all intents and purposes, when the Eight Gates expired, and Kishi "plotted" him to remain alive, so the same can still happen to Obito. That is all. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 18:33, May 25, 2014 (UTC)

So, someone decided to claim him dead :D I see the Kirabi case didn't teach you anything, guys. Obito won't die until he has proper resolve, it's obvious from the story point of view. Don't claim anything until stated. BZ never stated Obito would IMMEDIATELY die the moment he separates from him.Faust-RSI (talk) 08:32, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

Black Zetsu said he was the only thing keeping Obito alive, so to me at least everything points to him being dead, and I think we should list him as "Deceased" for now, and if for some reason he would wake up and be fine later (which would make no sense) then we change it back. --Chrillbill (talk) 08:41, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

I doubt he is dead yet. He didn't even get his flashbacks. --Costeavladalexandru (talk) 09:49, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

@Costeavladalexandru Oh, we've seen more than enough flashbacks of young Obito, Rin and Kakashi. We've already seen what needs to be seen from Obito's past. --Chrillbill (talk) 09:59, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

Black Zetsu did say that, but I find it rather unlikely that Obito is either dead, or will remain so for a long time. There was way too much talk about eyes working better as pair for both his Sharingan not being used for something greater. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 11:36, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

It should be presumed deceased for now, people who think Kishi would actually kill off a major character without closure don't know a thing about this manga. Also, there's a reason he wields both his eyes now.--Kenny U (talk) 11:49, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

Obviously he's dead now. He took a kunai to the hand without regaining consciousness. He wasn't affected by Infinite Tsukuyomi. Black Zetsu explicitly called him dead. He's deceased.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 02:14, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
No he didn't, Black Zetsu said he was "no more" which could mean a lot of things. Look, he obviously has a role to fill in the narrative since he is one of only 5 people in the world in the vicinity of Kaguya. Until we get real confirmation, don't infer anything ok? We've been over this time and time again, and the exact same argument was made after 656 when Obito used Rinne Tensei. It's better to just wait. --Kenny U (talk) 23:21, June 16, 2014 (UTC)
In this case, I'd have to agree. Black Zetsu did say those things, but Kishi is painstakingly attempting to keep Obito in the story. If he was dead, there would've been no reason for Kakashi to "save" him from falling into a river of magma, nor to continue calling out to him in the chapter prior. Kishi still has plans for Obito that may or may not involve death. We should simply put Incapacitated and wait for clarity. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 23:28, June 16, 2014 (UTC)
...then why wasn't he affected by Mugen Tsukuyomi? Why didn't getting a KUNAI JAMMED IN HIS HAND wake him out? Why didn't the heat of the volcano wake him up? Seriously, everything points to Obito being dead.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 02:18, June 17, 2014 (UTC)
  1. Because you need to have your eyes opened for that. He was unconscious.
  2. Because he was knocked out cold. Have you ever been knocked unconscious? I have. Twice. You don't wake up until your body tells you to wake up. If he's in a comma, which is worse, even getting the lava on him wouldn't have woken him up.
In conclusion, you don't know what you're talking about. At all. We don't know that he's dead, so we're not saying so. Capish? Good. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 02:51, June 17, 2014 (UTC)
...even unconscious and sleeping people were affected by Mugen Tsukuyomi though. Yamato who was still unconscious inside Spiral Zetsu was taken in. Sleeping people were still taken in. The light from Mugen Tsukuyomi penetrated everything living except for Sasuke's Susano'o which provided a defense. If Obito was alive, he'd have been affected to like everyone else around the world.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 23:50, June 17, 2014 (UTC)
The argument on why he is alive is mainly one based on logic and an understanding on how Kishi writes his story. Kishi did not contrive a way to bring Obito to the final fight only for him to just be a corpse and serve no purpose. He did not have both Naruto and Kakashi show concern for his overall safety and save him if they knew he was dead (Naruto especially would react differently to a corpse than he would a living person). Furthermore there is a gap of time between Madara revealing his involvement in Rin's death and him and Obito returning from the Kamui dimension that is still unaccounted for. Anything could have happened during that time, including Madara putting Obito in a deep genjutsu (the last panels of them in the Kamui dimension feature Madara using the sharingan in a similar way Obito did to Kakashi when he genjutsu'd him) which would have made him avoid the Mugen Tsukuyomi. I bet you assumed he was dead after 636 when Madara tried to force him to use Rinne Tensei, or in 656 when he actually used Rinne Tensei, or even during many times after that. In situations like this it is best to wait for actual confirmation from the manga and not make assumptions like many have done in the past, please try to understand this time. --Kenny U (talk) 22:47, June 18, 2014 (UTC)

Guess now we can finally put this discussion to rest right? Next time, can everyone not jump to conclusions? It's best if we wait for official confirmation rather than vague statements from Black Zetsu.--Kenny U (talk) 13:32, June 25, 2014 (UTC)

kirigakure Edit

how was obito uchiha affiliated with kirigakure??? (Sharoze001 (talk) 22:03, May 14, 2014 (UTC))

He controlled Kirigakure via Yagura for an undisclosed amount of time. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:09, May 14, 2014 (UTC)

Both eyes? Edit

Did he gets his right eye back? It's hard to tell if that's Black Zetsu's eye or his own. --Mandon (talk) 22:31, May 14, 2014 (UTC)

BZ does if you want to get technical--Elveonora (talk) 22:50, May 14, 2014 (UTC)

Obito Falling Edit

OBito's body did not fall to the ground only as stated here " Obito died as a result as his body fell to the ground, much to the chagrin of a solemn Kakashi." He actually teleported with the others. You can see ned to the waterfall (lava fall lol?) behind Kaguya. —This unsigned comment was made by Rex-05 (talkcontribs) on 08:38, June 4, 2014 (UTC).

This is true, Obito is seen falling along side the others, and I highly doubt it's for him to just plop into a vat of lava. --Kenny U (talk) 11:53, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

New infobox pic Edit

I don't really like that his current one is so close-up, so what you say about this? --Kasan94 Nara Symbol Talkpage 14:02, June 14, 2014 (UTC)

That's a lot better... the current one is too zoomed in on his face. --KirinNOTKarin98 (talk) 15:48, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
I agree with you on that. I'll just change it, can always be reverted if someone thinks otherwise --Kasan94 Nara Symbol Talkpage 15:51, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
And to finish, one person chiming in is not enough. I am neutral on changing the image. Give other people a chance to voice their opinion and then have at it.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 18:03, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
That is why I said it could always be reverted later. --Kasan94 Nara Symbol Talkpage 18:05, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
The current one is better in my opinion.--Elveonora (talk) 20:12, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
I prefer the previous one. Norleon (talk) 22:11, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
Why if I may ask Norleon? :) --Kasan94 Nara Symbol Talkpage 23:17, June 14, 2014 (UTC)

The proposed one is terrible in overall image quality. EDIT: If the photo must be changed to something less close up, however, I can start finding more options for you guys to choose from, starting with this. --Mandon (talk) 06:36, June 15, 2014 (UTC)

Because I prefer close-up images for infoboxes, maybe with a bit of the shoulder area shown at best. Also, with the previous one, we have a perspective that shows his face in a frontal view while in the new one, he looks a bit sidewards.
The second proposal is even less an option in my opinion, Obito looks too stereotypical evil on it. Norleon (talk) 11:18, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
There was a pic someone put on the infobox recently, think it was from Chrillbill (excuse spelling typos in that :P) that looked decent. Can't remember when it was, but it was fairly recently... --Speysider Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | Channel 12:15, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
You mean this one? --Chrillbill (talk) 12:54, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
The one from Chrillbill, is better than the one from Mandon, from my point of view at least. But still prefer the one I uploaded, even though it is a bit sideways. --Kasan94 Nara Symbol Talkpage 13:41, June 15, 2014 (UTC)

How about this one then? It's further away than the current, bit still closer than my previous suggestion. It has a better angle than the one from Mandon. And it is a bit like the one from Chrillbill, except both his arms are down who he doesn't look so big. --Kasan94 Nara Symbol Talkpage 14:35, June 15, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, that one looks pretty good Kasan. --Speysider Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | Channel 21:53, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
Great, think I'll wait to change it this time though, until more responds. --Kasan94 Nara Symbol Talkpage 21:56, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
 Support — Yeah, your last uploaded image is the best for Obito. —Shakhmoot Nadeshiko Village Symbol (Talk) 22:47, June 15, 2014 (UTC)

Abilities he didn't use? Edit

Wait, Obito didn't use most of the paths, right? Did he use the absorption soul technique? He didn't use the asura path or any of the path techniques other than the Outer Path: Samsara of Heavenly Life Technique right?Maybe the summoning of the gedo mazo counts as the animal paths, but this wiki is noting techniques he didn't use or claim to be able to use.--Deathmailrock (talk) 18:33, June 17, 2014 (UTC)

Those who possess the Rinnegan can use the Six Paths Technique. Anyway, Obito stated that he could use the Human Path on Yamato, plus he used at least the Outer Path to control the six reincarnated jinchūriki and to resurrect Madara.--JOA20 (talk) 18:52, June 17, 2014 (UTC)
Madara taught him Six Paths Technique, not Two Paths Technique--Elveonora (talk) 19:06, June 17, 2014 (UTC)

So far we can't say if Obito was alive or dead. Edit

The page state with certainty that Obito died after his last conversation with Madara/falling without Black Zetsu inside him, but actually it's pretty possible that he remained only uncoscious after that his body was controlled by the villains. The words of Black Zetsu depicting his status weren't never been able to give a clear answer (indeed the wikia mentioned him presumed deceased), just as the actions of Kakashi protecting Obito's body from the falling into the lava made think more to the Uchiha being still alive than to Kakashi preserving him for the later intervention of Naruto (when the copyninja hasn't still realized the powers of the boy just as everyone). In addition this chapter gives no evidence if Naruto is healing or reviving him. So I want just say that would be better to talk just about Naruto treating Obito (with the Uchiha giving evidence to be still alive), for postponing a clear statement about an heal or a revive only after to have got more info from the next chapters.--JK88 (talk) 13:24, June 25, 2014 (UTC)

It's very clear that he's alive. --Mandon (talk) 20:40, June 25, 2014 (UTC)

Indeed. Based on the panel with Naruto touching him, he makes a sound. He appears to just be incredibly weak. But Naruto also puts his hand on Obito, and we know what that did to Gai. So maybe Naruto did something. Regardless, he (Obito) is quite alive. --Taynio (talk) 20:50, June 25, 2014 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuoKNZjr8_U Yay! Now we may finally get his second or third (at this point) redemption story.--Elveonora (talk) 21:02, June 25, 2014 (UTC)

Obito has never got his redemption, for it he has to do something active for the save of the world as he wished in the past: returning to his old himself or an eventual mass resurrection were already stated not being things able to accomplish it. Obito rescuing the life of Naruto was the only element that could be seen as a real "world saving", but Obito's promise made to Rin, the foreshadowing of the potential of the two eyes, the last conversation with Madara and the likely parallel of Obito and Madara with Hagoromo and Hamura fighting for saving the world from the Juubi, presuppose a future development involving more actively Obito (and Madara too). More, the importance of Obito's future partecipation to the events has to be seen also under a more general point of view: Hagoromo's philosophy is that the peace is possible only through the collaboration and now very likely we will see people tied by conflictual relationships during all their lifetime (Naruto, Sasuke, Obito, Kakashi, Minato, Hashirama, Madara, Tobirama, in general Uchiha/Indra successors and Senjuu/Ashura successors) doing it through their common efforts against Kaguya, in the process demonstrating so that a mutual understanding is possible.
But by the way all this has nothing to do with my post, I wanted just to put in evidence that it's not clear if Naruto is healing or reviving Obito (and consequently if Obito was or less dead before).--JK88 (talk) 10:25, June 26, 2014 (UTC)

English Voice ActorEdit

Where's the source that it's Vic Mignogna voicing him in Revolution? From what I've been told, he and Shisui aren't in the credits, and it sounds nothing like Vic in the game. {{SUBST:User:Sanji The Cook/sig}} 01:52, July 9, 2014 (UTC)

I agree, the voice actor sounds nothing like Vic. It sounds more like Todd Haberkorn. MoonKingGuy (talk) 02:12, July 9, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, there is a distinct "Death the Kid" vibe I'm getting from that voice. (TenshoDama96 (talk) 02:44, July 9, 2014 (UTC))

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