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possible theories stated as fact

What's this "hiruzen gave naruto his mother's name cos he didn't want enemies knowing the connection between him and minato" ? The only thing minato said was that Hiruzen didn't tell him about his parents. Naruto has been naruto uzumaki since day one because kishimoto started the story with name plus the swirls and spirals associated naruto's name Rayzur (talk) 21:28, March 17, 2014 (UTC)

I don't know, everyone has a different reasoning for this... ask Cerez--Elveonora (talk) 13:59, March 18, 2014 (UTC)

I could swear I remember along those lines being mentioned at some point. Some time, when someone mentions Minato having enemies, perhaps Iwagakure over the many shinobi he killed. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:05, March 18, 2014 (UTC)

I think it was Chakra Minato in naruto's mind?? or Jiraiya and Tsunade before he left to Amegakure?? It was one of those I think. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 01:28, March 20, 2014 (UTC)

Well I checked, it wasn't when Jiraiya was leaving for Amegakure, so it must be either with Chakra Minato or Kushina. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 01:44, March 20, 2014 (UTC)

Page 6 of Chapter 440 brings up that Hiruzen let as little information out as possible, since he'd be in constant danger if people knew who his father was. So while I admit, it wasn't out and out stated "Your name is Uzumaki to avoid the eventuality of my enemies coming to get you", it's much easier to explain away "We used someone from the same clan as Kushina for the host" as opposed to "Oh yeah, Naruto Namikaze, spikey blonde kid, is the host like Minato's old girlfriend, but don't sweat it, totally no relation." --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 02:04, March 20, 2014 (UTC)

Vandalized

To all Wikia members, please be aware that Naruto's page is getting vandalized. Please do everything it takes to stop that vandal. A similar case happened to Konata Izumi's page in Lucky Star Wiki a year ago. Nkqdotaku96 (talk) 06:23, March 30, 2014 (UTC)Nkqdotaku96

Naruto and the other Beasts

I know this is probably going to cause an uproar, but its been bugging me, and I want to get the opinion of others on this. The fact that Naruto has the chakra of all nine tailed beasts inside of him is apparently very significant, both to him, the beasts, the Sage, and apparently now the prophecy concerning him. By definition he is the Pseudo-Jinchūriki of eight tailed beasts and the full jinchūriki of one, in that, like Sora, from the filler, and the Gold and Silver Brothers from canon, he has the tailed beasts chakra within him (without having the actual beast), yet can still use that chakra. So far, he has only used their chakra to pull out the beasts from Obito, but the Sage goes as far to say that Naruto has "united the bijū" within himself. Would it, then, be accurate to list him as their pseudo-jinchūriki given the circumstances? I mean, under our definition of a pseudo-jinchūriki, he fits the bill. Thoughts? ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 19:43, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I see how that might cause an uproar. He does possess a part of each tailed beasts' chakra. Just taking what you brought up in consideration, I'd be inclined to agree, but that also raises another issue: Naruto has shared Kurama's chakra with the entire Alliance. He may have had to modify it in some way, but he still did. Does that makes the Alliance pseudo-jins as well? Obito managed to rip a bit of Shukaku and Gyūki from Madara, and held it, at least for a short while. Does that make him a pseudo-jin for those two? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:50, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
I don't think we should label him as such being that he is a jinchuriki for one them. He is just a jinchuriki of Yin Kurama who also has the chakra of the other 8 beasts inside of him. Listing him as both a jin and a pseudo-jinn is redundant. The "higher" classification should take precedence. Now if Yin Kurama gets removed while the other 8 are still in jim then sure, otherwise we are gonna have to label the shinobi army as being pseudo jinchuriki of kurama as well.Umishiru (talk) 19:54, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
@Omni: I don't think so and here's why. When Gyūki and Shukaku appeared in Naruto's mind, they specifically mention Obito sealing their chakra into Naruto along with Yin-Kurama's. Naruto transferred his chakra, mixed with Kurama's, to everyone in the Alliance, but even if he just transferred Kurama's pure chakra he wasn't sealing it within them. Furthermore, the beasts appear in his mental landscape and Kurama wasn't able to do that with the Alliance. He had to speak through Naruto if he wanted to talk to Kakashi or Guy, or whoever was present. But with Naruto, the beasts can speak to him mentally, despite the fact that he was still gaining Kurama back at that point (shown by him appearing alongside Shukaku and Gyūki as Obito was sealing them into him), which seems to indicate a deeper connection than just the fact that he has their chakra. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 19:56, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
Good points all around. I think the lines between what we would classify as jinchūriki are being broken a bit by this event. Wouldn't we list him a a pseudo jinchriki for the ten tails since they're all in him? Also wouldn't this make Naruto a pseudo jinchūriki instead of a full one? --Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 20:00, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
I thought of that, but when it comes down to it, he's not a pseudo of the Ten-Tails. Because technically all nine beasts are a piece of its chakra so that would make each of the jinchūriki a Ten-Tails pseudo. Not to mention, the Ten-Tails is all nine beasts fused into one, and Naruto clearly still has them separate in his mindscape. Naruto is a full jinchūriki of Kurama's Yin-half. There's no question of that. But he has chakra sealed into him of all the other beasts which would make him their pseudo-jinchūriki. I think this is a first case of there being both in the same host. If I had to vote right now, I'd say list him as both a Jinchūriki (for Kurama) and a Pseudo-Jinchūriki (for the other eight) and then list them in his infobox as well. He can use their chakra, talk to them mentally, and they appear in his mental plane. That to me is enough proof that he can be classified as such. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 20:29, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
This is one of those times where rigidly sticking to definitions would absolutely be counter-productive. Because it would bloat the infobox and dilute all meaning of the word.
Until such time that he is able to transform into the other eight, he should not be considered any percentage of their jinchuriki. ~SnapperTo 20:39, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
TTF, I thought about the sealing aspect of it, but if you look at it, Kinkaku and Ginkaku didn't have Kurama's chakra sealed into them either, yet they're considered pseudo-jins. They acquired the chakra by consuming parts of Kurama, not sealing part of Kurama. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:42, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

TU3 Opinion

Naruto could be classified as a peusdo-jinchuriki of all eight of the other tailed beasts. He fits classification of possessing all the tailed beasts chakra within him.
Because I noticed it brought up, he only shared Kurama's chakra with the Alliance. Naruto's chakra cloak can run out and it will dissipate from them, they are all not pesudo-jinchuriki, unless they all start sprouting Kurama's at which point we would have to rethink that classification a bit.
Naruto is nothing of the Ten-Tails because having all nine of the tailed beasts chakra doesn't make him giant tree monster guy. He's a kid with a bunch of demon chakra.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 21:10, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
@Snapper: But being able to transform does not make one pseudo-jinchūriki. He can manipulate their chakra at will for his own purposes. Their consciousness also dwells in his mindscape, just like a jinchūriki. Distorting the infobox isn't my concern. I, frankly, don't care about "prettiness". We have that segment to denote when someone is a Jinchūriki/pseudo-jinchūriki and which beast they are classified under. It is our own lack of foresight that has caused the semantic problems. After all, it was never stated that a person could only be the jinchūriki of one beast at a time. Naruto may not have the entirety of the nine beasts inside of him, but he has enough of them inside of him for the Sage to declare that he has "united the Tailed Beasts" inside of him, as well as enough of their chakra for them to possess consciousness inside of him. I stand by what I've said. He is a pseudo-jinchūriki of eight of the nine beasts and a full jinchūriki of one of them. What we do going forward with this information is what we need to decide. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 21:19, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
Personally, given there are no other active Jinchuuriki presently, wouldn't that make him the acting real one? Considering all the others are dead, except for Gaara who is no longer a Jinchuuriki? Naruto presently houses all 9 separate, while Madara carries all 9 combined. With that being said, I'd vote on waiting until we see what happens with Naruto having all 9 inside of him. We don't know what having them inside means yet. --Taynio (talk) 21:26, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
I have no problem with waiting. My intention with this was to get the ball rolling on this topic, because it seems to be shaping up to take an important role (given the Sage, the Beasts, and Naruto's own comments on the subject) and we tend to wait until the last moment to tackle subjects like this (Obito anyone?) and then its a massive pain in the ass when we finally do decide to act. I just want to see where everyone stands on the issue. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 21:30, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
Of course, do not disagree. Though I think some people are assuming a little too much. --Taynio (talk) 23:00, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

I don't think Naruto should be considered anything of the Ten-Tails as it is. He may have chakra from all the tailed beasts, but he has nothing of the Demonic Statue. If they decide to seal that arm that Kakashi warped earlier, then we might have argument for pseudo. TFF, I'd like a comment from you regarding what I said about having the chakra sealed, and Kingin brothers being pseudos. I wouldn't call Naruto a full jinchūriki of any of the nine, but Kurama. I think that to be a proper jinchūriki, you need to have a significant portion of the tailed beast chakra inside yourself 50%, as seen with half of Kurama, almost like share-holding in companies. If you have more than 50%, no one can have more than you. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:39, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

By that logic, he still is the Jinchuuriki of every Bijuu. All the other Jinchuuriki are dead. Even Bee had his extracted, iirc. The only people remaining with any Bijuu chakra is Naruto and Madara, with Madara having Juubi, albeit all 9 combined. That leaves Naruto with the rest. Not even Minato has any left. At the present, we don't know what that means for Naruto, but if we're going to try and pinpoint what he is, he is the only person with any amount of separated Bijuu chakra. He has 1-9, no one else aside Madara's Juubi combined, so wouldn't that make him every Jinchuuriki? Otherwise, aside from having Kurama, there are no other present Jinchuuriki from 9-tail Naruto and 10-tail Madara. --Taynio (talk) 23:00, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

Kinda offtopic, but reading that I have to comment. Guys... for the last time, the Shinju is the Ten-Tails. All 9 Tailed Beast together do not make up the Ten-Tails, only its chakra. With that said, it could imply being a pseudo-jinchuuriki of the Ten-Tails ._.--Elveonora (talk) 22:43, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

Taynio, he's not. By that logic, Naruto would have to have half the chakra of a biju to be a jinchuriki. That isn't possible because Madara restored the Ten-Tails and became its host. Madara isn't the jinchuriki of each of the nine biju, he's the jinchuriki of the Ten-Tails. There's a difference, that being the chakra being returned to the Demonic Statue, which then turns to the Shinju, which then is sealed. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:22, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

What do you think about what I said? Since Naruto has the "Ten-Tails' chakra" (but not the actual body that is Gedo Mazo) doesn't that make him a Ten-Tails' pseudo-jinchuuriki? Listing him as that would greatly solve the infobox clutter problem of having him listed as a pseudo-jinchuurki of 8 other beasts--Elveonora (talk) 23:28, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
Why would he be a pseudo anything? There are no other Jinchuuriki (except Madara). So save for the combined chakra that is in Madara, all separate Bijuu are in Naruto. The rest are dead. And given Madara is the Jinchuuriki of the 10 tails, that puts him out of the running. Note: I am not actually suggesting it, but it makes more sense than calling him a pseudo. --Taynio (talk) 23:31, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
Not really, The Bijuu are in Madara while only parts of their chakras inside of Naruto. Also the 9 Tailed Beasts don't get actually merged with the Gedo Mazo inside to make the Ten-Tails as I had originally thought, they still exist separately. The Gedo Mazo just drains their chakras from them to restore itself--Elveonora (talk) 23:34, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
I find this situation to be a paradox. On one hand, we've been told that each tailed beast is a fragment of the Ten-Tails' chakra, so in theory, Naruto has the chakra, but on the other, not having him listed as a pseudo for the other eight and having his listed as a pseudo for the Shinju seems contradictory to me. Taynio, the problem I see with your argument is that for you, any small amount of tailed beast chakra in a person equals a jinchuriki. If that was the case, the entire Alliance would be Kurama's jinchuriki. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:38, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

@Omni - That's my point. We don't know what it means. Never before has the chakra of each Bijuu existed outside of the Juubi. There hasn't been a 10-tail Jinchuuriki while the others exist in chakra form. And define "bijuu". They speak to NAruto the same way as before. What makes him not a Jinchuuriki? It's just chakra. So far, there seems to not be a difference between how Naruto was before and how it is now. Kurama was simply chakra sealed within Naruto. This time, all 9 are sealed within him. Exactly what kind of difference do you think there is? This isn't what I actually think, but it is something to think about. <- wrote before your recent

@Omni2- And no, that isn't "for me". That's not what I think. I don't know what to think. And no, that wouldn't make them Junchuuriki as the chakra was being channeled into them. A Jinchuuriki would be someone that houses the chakra of a Bijuu. Did that make Minato a pseudo? Iirc, people said that. But why? Naruto ONLY had half. Minato had the other half. No person had "Kurama". Kurama doesn't exist like that. It's chakra and can be divided. Naruto didn't have his half of Kurama's chakra + Kurama. It was simply Kurama's chakra.

@Elv - Define "bijuu". The Ten-tails still was revived with Kurama and Gyuuki inside their Jinchuuriki. Obito still became the Juubi Jinchuuriki despite that. So now do we classify Obito as a pseudo? Because technically speaking... He doesn't have the Bijuu Kurama and Gyuuki inside of him... So is it really the 10-tails? Or is it a pseudo-Juubi? That would make Madara the only true Juubi Jinchuuriki. And there is an extremely large potential for the next chapters with Naruto to make him out to be some super Jinchuuriki and fight alongside Sasuke against Madara. --Taynio (talk) 23:48, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

No offense Taynio, but I think you complicate the whole thing more than it's worth. @Omni, same way it's contradictory for Obito and Madara to be the Ten-Tails' jinchuuriki but not listed as jichuuriki of each of the nine beasts respectively as well.--Elveonora (talk) 23:53, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

No offense taken. I intend for it to sound complicated because it is. I am trying to throw out every argument because only then can you start understanding what it is, when you understand what it is not. In the same token, you can call every Jinchuuriki of a Bijuu a pseudo-Jinchuuriki of the Juubi because all the Bijuu are is separated chakra. Yes, yes, making it complicated, but for a point. We're trying to define things we don't understand. Is Naruto a full Jinchuuriki? A "pseudo" (something that never truly existed outside of a one time translation, as well as filler for the anime)? Naruto didn't eat to have the Bijuu, and they still behave as if they were fully inside him. They talk to him, are feeding him their chakra. You could say a pseudo Jinchuuriki is one that doesn't have the ability to drain a Bijuu's chakra. The only two canon pseudo had the chakra they did and that was it, right? The whole entire thing is complicated, and I don't know why that isn't seen. Did the brothers talk to Kurama? Did he somehow give them extra chakra? These are things that need to be thought out before we try and label something before it's explained in the manga. Again: we don't know what Naruto is. Pseudo, not pseudo? What makes one a pseudo? We don't know. Just wait till we find out what having the chakra of all 9 inside NAruto means. Hell, he may even use the same Avatar that was seen in Asura because of it. We don't know. --Taynio (talk) 00:01, April 4, 2014 (UTC)
This is what I meant by "uproar". I'll answer Omni since he's the closest to on topic: @Omni: In response to your query about Kinkaku and Ginkaku, technically they don't meet our definition of pseudo-jinchūriki. We derive our definition from the filler arc, in which we were given that name, based on Sora, who, in fact, had Kurama's chakra sealed inside of him in order to make him one. But I'll answer the hypothetical anyways by basically saying what Ultimate said, because that's the way I see it too. Kinkaku and Ginkaku were special cases too. They ate Kurama's "chakra meat" and gained some of its chakra. The difference is this. If Kinkaku and Ginkaku run out of Kurama's chakra, it doesn't disappear completely. Furthermore, they can transform into the beast. In contrast, as we've seen several times, when the chakra Naruto sent to the Allied Shinobi Forces runs out, it's gone and they cannot use it any longer until Naruto gets it back. Now, lets take that and compare it to Naruto. Naruto has the chakra of all eight beasts and he can use that chakra at will. Even after using their chakra to pull out the beasts themselves from Obito, he didn't run out of their chakra, as their chakra continued to inhabit him after he used it. That puts him in the same category as Kinkaku and Ginkaku, which, canonically makes him a pseudo-jinchūriki. That's how I see it. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 00:52, April 4, 2014 (UTC)
Everything I said was in deterrence of making any assumptions. We don't even have a full outline of what being pseudo means. The Alliance has more of a chance of being pseudo than any other. They used the power of a Bijuu but did not have the power of a bijuu. Anyone who has the power of a Bijuu wouldn't be a pseudo because there's nothing "fake" about it. <- And that isn't even my opinion, but a possible argument. As I said above, I don't have an opinion on this topic because we don't know anything. Naruto could end up being some new type of Jinchuuriki (as in housing 9) and we'd have to kick our ass for even thinking he is a pseudo anything because it challenges what we know. I really do not know why we cannot wait for the lore to be explained before jumping to conclusions. --Taynio (talk) 01:28, April 4, 2014 (UTC)
As far as we know, the tailed beasts just transferred their chakra to Naruto the same way Kurama gave chakra to Kakashi. It's not as though fūinjutsu was used to seal parts of the tailed beasts in Naruto (excluding maybe Shukaku and Gyūki) and he didn't eat any "chakra meat", it's just a regular old chakra transfer. He should logically be able to run out of it, just like Kakashi used up Kurama's chakra.--BeyondRed (talk) 01:31, April 4, 2014 (UTC)

Regarding the "why aren't all jinchūriki pseudo Jubi jins" and "why aren't Obito and Madara jins of all nine", you're not taking in consideration one thing: the nine tailed beasts are more than parts of the Ten-Tails. Hagoromo didn't simply just split the chakra into nine parts, he made each of those nine parts an individual. When we see part of most tailed beasts' chakra in Naruto, they appear as the tailed beast they are. Even when the whole tailed beast is sealed in a host, we see that as themselves, not as the Ten-Tails. Obito and Madara didn't seal them individually into themselves, they sealed them as the Ten-Tails, which also includes the Demonic Statue. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:58, April 4, 2014 (UTC)

I didn't take "anything" into consideration because I didn't earnestly believe what I posted. I, again, was trying to post about how flimsy some of the ways people were describing things was. They want to try and make Naruto a pseudo without understanding what a pseudo truly is (we don't have the 100% outline), or even knowing what exactly Naruto is according to Kish currently. Obito didn't have all of Kurama or Gyuuki, either, when he became a Jinchuuriki. Yet because Naruto supposedly doesn't have the "heart" of any other bijuu except Kurama, he is what... suddenly a pseudo something? How in the world would he somehow get back the "heart" of Kurama and not the others? There was no special selection by Obito. He grabbed them all and sealed them into Naruto. Kurama was completely taken from Naruto, now it's back, as are the other bijuu. So what, he lost his Jinchuuriki status and got it back just like that? He is a pseudo? How? Why any of it? None of it makes sense. There are so many holes in every idea presented for this section, which is why at every end of every post, I say to wait. We don't know anything. But the one thing I think I feel is right is that Naruto isn't a pseudo in any context. Just like Kurama and the others existed before, they exist in him now. There is no "heart", no special identity. No special item. No special organism. Nothing. Does that make him a laymen's version of Jinchuuriki? Is he something more now that he 9 beasts inside? Exactly in what context are they inside him? Let's wait and find out after the Guy v Madara business ends. --Taynio (talk) 21:24, April 4, 2014 (UTC)
The tailed beasts aren't inside of Naruto, only small portions of their chakras...--Elveonora (talk) 23:53, April 4, 2014 (UTC)
But that's just the thing. What does having the beast inside you mean? Obito and Madara revived the Juubi just by using chakra. They didn't need Gyuuki or Kurama to do it. Obito became a Jinchuuriki without having Kurama or Gyuuki. So while all that happened, Naruto and Bee still had the bijuu inside of them. Yet we want to sit here and debate over what having them, in any context or capacity, means to Naruto. How do we know it's "just their chakra". They ARE chakra. What is the difference between Naruto having Kurama now and what he had before? Was there some special entity inside? Some special item within him? What? What is the difference between now and then? Kurama is back inside. He can talk to Naruto the same. I am sure Naruto would be able to draw from whatever energy is inside. The only potential difference is the amount of chakra given. But how would that make any difference? At what point does having more of Kurama's chakra mean "Kurama"? They function, seemingly thus far, no different now than they did before with the last generation of Jinchuuriki. so I ask again: What does any of this mean?--Taynio (talk) 00:46, April 5, 2014 (UTC)

Considering how little we know, I think that for now, we change nothing. Until we see how having a bit of each tailed beasts' chakra does to him, opposed to having a bit of the Ten-Tails inside him, because again, no statue, I say we do nothing. Unless they explain something in clear terms, it's unlikely that the next chapters will clarify much, since he's also receiving something from Hagoromo, so whatever Naruto displays next might not be solely due to the tailed beasts. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:56, April 5, 2014 (UTC)

"FACEPALM" why don't people still get it to this day? Juubi = "Demonic Statue" with its chakra restored, nothing else, the 9 Tailed Beasts do not make up the Juubi, for the very final time, the Shinju is the Demonic Statue. And you don't get this, the Tailed Beasts aren't "just chakra" they are flesh when not sealed. The difference between a jinchuuriki and a pseudo-jinchuuriki is that the former has the actual living entity inside that can produce more of its own chakra, while the latter just has a specific amount of chakra that may run out eventually--Elveonora (talk) 12:04, April 5, 2014 (UTC)


So if they do not make up the Juubi, then Kish lied to us by saying it? Both in that they are the separated chakra of it and that they can be combined to make it? As for the rest, I don't see a reason to speak of it. We don't know all the rules for being different yet. Kurama and the others seemingly function exactly the same currently as they did in the past. It's not worth trying to pick to pieces and understand until we understand what Naruto is now. Why can you not understand that? --Taynio (talk) 20:36, April 6, 2014 (UTC)
Kishimoto never said that. The 9 Tailed Beasts do not make up the Shinju, the Shinju is "Gedo Mazo" stripped of most of its chakra, which the Tailed Beasts possess. You are confused by the chakras of the Tailed Beasts speaking inside of Naruto. Make no mistake, the actual beasts themselves in body/soul/person are still within the Gedo Mazo which is inside of Madara. --Elveonora (talk) 20:55, April 6, 2014 (UTC)

Reincarnation question

With him being Ashura's reincarnation, could we also say, in a technical sense, that Hagoromo was his father? This also would apply to the other reincarnations of the 2 brothers. XundoshiMike 16:31, April 6, 2014 (UTC)

Na. Seelentau 愛 16:33, April 6, 2014 (UTC)
They aren't literal reincarnations, only inheritors of chakra. Kishimoto should have chosen a better term...--Elveonora (talk) 18:57, April 6, 2014 (UTC)

Yang Release User - Official?

It fits the description, he's able to restore Guy's life force using SO6P's inherited power. Wisenoob (talk) 07:12, April 9, 2014 (UTC)

How does it fit the description? Anyway, that's speculation at the moment.--JOA20 (talk) 07:16, April 9, 2014 (UTC)
From the article Yang Release: The Yang Release (陽遁, Yōton; Viz "Light Style") techniques, based on the physical energy that governs vitality, can be used to breathe life into form. Wisenoob (talk) 07:20, April 9, 2014 (UTC)
For all we know now, Naruto could have just given Guy some chakra. I actually agree with you, but it's better to wait until it's confirmed.--JOA20 (talk) 07:28, April 9, 2014 (UTC)

Just in advance, if it turns out to be yang-release (for real this time) stuff, then we will have or at least we should then list Chiyo's technique as yang release too among other things, looks like same thing to me--Elveonora (talk) 10:01, April 9, 2014 (UTC)

Obviously this will need to wait until specific confirmation, but it seems extremely likely that Naruto was given the power of Yang Release and Sasuke the power of Yin Release, representing the two halves of Hagoromo's Creation of All Things, which had long ago been depicted as him holding a dark flame (red flame in the anime) in his left hand and a light flame (blue flame in the anime) in his right hand, representing Yin and Yang respectively. That roughly the same imagery has been repeated here with the sun and moon in the palms of their right and left hands is extremely telling. FF-Suzaku (talk) 12:50, April 9, 2014 (UTC)
Even more so since yang can also refer to the sun while yin to the moon--Elveonora (talk) 12:52, April 9, 2014 (UTC)
Still shouldn't go into the article until we're told so. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 14:49, April 9, 2014 (UTC)

Lava Release

Since I can't edit the infobox, should Lava Release be added since he is using it basically in the same way Roshi did? "Demons run when a good man goes to war." (talk) 19:58, April 12, 2014 (UTC)

We don't know how Roshi was using it, if he had to ask for the chakra or if he could just do it.--Elveonora (talk) 20:05, April 12, 2014 (UTC)
I don't think that matters. Jinchuriki of Son Goku can use Lava Release. Simple as that.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 20:12, April 12, 2014 (UTC)
Gaara and Bunpuku gained Shukaku's ability to manipulate sand. Shouldn't that apply to Son jinchuriki's as well they get Lava Release?(Kuroiraikou (talk) 20:29, April 12, 2014 (UTC))
Gaara also got Shukaku's Wind Release ability too. Its the same exact thing with Son Goku, Naruto, and Roshi now.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 20:31, April 12, 2014 (UTC)
Na, Gaara had Wind Release on his own. Seelentau 愛 20:32, April 12, 2014 (UTC)
You sure? I didn't think it was his affinity, he was only using it when using Shukaku's power.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 20:33, April 12, 2014 (UTC)

The specific issue on how Naruto should be listed as a Lava Release user is precisely why I brought this back up. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:46, April 12, 2014 (UTC)

@SSM, For all we know, Roshi might have been using Lava for real, like having to merge two natures, not like Naruto who is gifted the molded chakra. Since Naruto isn't doing the nature transformation himself, he shouldn't have Lava in his infobox, until and if he does.--Elveonora (talk) 20:47, April 12, 2014 (UTC)

@Elveonora, I don't think it works that way. Roshi was explicitly said by Kisame to be able to use Lava Release due to having the Four-Tails.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 21:09, April 12, 2014 (UTC)

You all are missing what I say. Roshi could mold Yoton chakra himself because he was Son Goku's jinchuuriki. Naruto may or may not be able to do so too, but he hasn't. What he did on the 3 panels was just add already molded Yoton chakra to his technique--Elveonora (talk) 21:25, April 12, 2014 (UTC)

@Elveonora, I think Naruto asked Son for help becose Masashi wanted to display origin of Naruto power to readersRage gtx (talk) 21:29, April 12, 2014 (UTC)

"After gaining Son Gokū's and Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki's power, he gained the Lava Release ability as well as Fire Release and Earth Release" Good Good, this place has officially become a fanon website. Everyone feel free to add whatever bullshi* that comes from your arse, since even the sysops do, so why not? Happy fanon-doing!!!

Seriously, this fallacy has reached grandiose levels. One doesn't and can't just "gain an ability" to use a nature release. Everyone has the capability to use all 5 natures, it only takes the user's knowledge and skill to use them.--Elveonora (talk) 12:09, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

Jinchuriki get the powers of their tailed beast. Roshi has Lava Release because he was Son's jinchuriki.
I seriously do not understand why this suddenly doesn't happen because Naruto got it.
That being said, this conversation will stay here because this does not need to be argued about in two different locations.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 12:25, April 13, 2014 (UTC)
I never said Naruto hasn't gotten it, I said he may or may have not, but is yet to demonstrate and what he did wasn't an actual demonstration but Son Goku's doing and Naruto just using it. No different than Jugo molding Senjutsu chakra and handling it to Sasuke, that doesn't make Sasuke Senjutsu user--Elveonora (talk) 12:31, April 13, 2014 (UTC)
And I'm not going to argue that point again, beacuse I already did so in the other, longer discussion, which is where this one will continue. Again, does not need to be in two places at the same time.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 12:41, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

Why is it that always when naruto develops an ability or does something combat worthy, people still try to find logical reasons why they don't accept or believe it rather than accept the obvious in front of them? Always going on like "lets wait until kishi says so or until we're proven wrong" but eventually the obvious event occurring is plainly seen, smh --Rayzur (talk) 18:35, April 15, 2014 (UTC)

Permanent Sage Mode?

As of chapter 672 Naruto has the Sage Mode and Nine-Tailed chakra mode merged eyes, but without the pigmentation around his eyes. Despite this, he called his new technique in chapter 673 Sage Art: Lava Release Rasenshuriken... so is it safe to assume he's now in some sort of permanent Sage Mode? Or is it just me over-thinking things? - Atrix471 (talk) 22:58, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

We still don't know. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:02, April 13, 2014 (UTC)
This is purely speculation on my part, but I kind of think so; mostly because it's supposed to be half of the Sage's power, and far as we see, Six Paths (forgot his name) is not only always in his sage mode, but also always seems to have the truth seeking orbs around him... wait... is Naruto technically a pseudo-jinchuriki of the Ten Tails now too? Bloodytom (talk) 09:04, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

Jinchuriki of the other nine beasts

Something I neglected to mention. Considering how all the tailed beast in Naruto are sentient, that would make Naruto the full jinchuriki of each of them, as per our decision when Minato was able to speak with the other half of the Nine-Tails. How that makes sense I don't fully understand yet, but yeah.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 11:28, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

That's a good point, I assume it's similar to the type of Jinchuriki Naruto has always been. He probably contains just enough of their chakra for them to remain sentient, just like how Yin and Yang Kurama can. Maybe he IS the full Jinchuriki of them, it isn't really clear. Atrix471 (talk) 11:39, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
Not really, chakra can come with consciousness. That doesn't mean it's the real tailed beasts--Elveonora (talk) 13:43, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
But isn't that exactly what one justification was about Kurama? Up until Yin-Kurama actually started talking? Didn't we conclude if the tailed beasts sealed within someone acted like a tailed beast, then that person is a jinchuriki?--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 15:49, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
We did and I'll pose another question. If we don't concede to Naruto being the jinchūriki of all the other beasts, then what of Yin and Yang Kurama? Are they both not just portions of Kurama as a whole? Do we say that because Naruto got some of the chakra of the tailed beasts, he's not their jinchūriki, but he only has some of Kurama's chakra as well, yet he is his jinchūriki? Where do we draw the line? We can't have one and not the other. They have consciousness within him, which was the deciding factor with Yin Kurama. In my mind, that makes him a jinchūriki. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 15:54, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
Titans chakra is screwy.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 15:56, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
Titan's chakra? -confused- Anyways. I agree regarding Naruto being a Jinchuuriki for all bijuu, and despite my objective proclamation I make everywhere, I fail to see the logic in Elv's words given what we know. --Taynio (talk) 15:58, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

I think half of Kurama's chakra is a lot more than a little. And I don't think Naruto has the power to turn into each of the beasts. Maybe we should define it by that. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 16:07, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

*cue new chakra mode* In all honesty, agreed with Taynio and Ultimate. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 16:09, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

Honestly, this matter does not need much discussion. There are obvious differences between the pseudo-Jinch. and Naruto/Minato's case. Normal Ps-Jinch. cannot manifest the TB within their consciousness. We've never seen them able to. Minato and Naruto, however, have. We've also seen that the sealing of the "physical beast" doesnt really matter, as Minato merely sealed part on Kurama's chakra into himself, and still became a jinch. In all actuality, it's just that simple.--NaviiGator (A.K.A.KotoSenju)Talk Page-My Contributions 16:19, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

I disagree with you guys. Minato split Kurama into Yin and Yang with Shiki Fujin. But Naruto doesn't have inside of him Yin Shukaku, Yin Matatabi, Yin Son Goku and so on. He isn't their jinchuuriki, Madara is...--Elveonora (talk) 17:12, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

Oh a technical level, is he not. He is the jinchuriki of the Ten-Tails. And per our discussion, what makes Naruto the jinchuriki is not how he got the chakra, its that the chakra was sentient.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 17:15, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
No. Madara is the jinchūriki of the Ten-Tails. Naruto is the jinchūriki of nine sentient pieces of the tailed beasts chakra. There is no difference. So you're saying if their chakra was Yin or Yang that would change the whole ballpark? Don't be absurd. They can talk to him, give him their chakra of their own will, and the Sage even says in the last chapter, "You have all the tailed beasts inside of you now." There really is no other way to interpret that unless you really want to stand here before me now and tell me that the amount of tailed beast chakra they have in them determines whether or not they're a jinchūriki. That just doesn't make any sense no matter which way you slice it. Given what we know about tailed beasts and jinchūriki, this is how it is. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 17:18, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
Orochimaru's chakra is sentient too, is he a Tailed Beast and is everyone with a Curse Mark a jinchuuriki of Orochimaru's? We weren't told consciousness mixed up with chakra is an abnormality, ever. Just look at Hagoromo, he is technically dead and yet as alive as it can get outside of spacetime. Jinchuuriki is someone who has the actual Tailed Beast in body inside of them. Naruto only has bits of their chakra. Until we are shown that those pieces of chakra can produce more chakra and aren't gone once Naruto spends them up, they aren't the real Tailed Beasts--Elveonora (talk) 17:20, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
Your logic fails. Naruto and Minato have separate halves of Kurama's chakra, not the full beast itself within them. They are still jinchūriki. Orochimaru isn't a bijū so I don't know why he's in this argument to begin with. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 17:22, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
Kurama was split into "yin kurama" and "yang kurama" by Minato's Shiki Fujin. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the other Tailed Beasts weren't split in two with a fuuinjutsu.--Elveonora (talk) 17:26, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
That literally makes no sense. At all. The tailed beasts have conscious portions of their chakra within Naruto. Yin Kurama and Yang Kurama are just two portions of Kurama's chakra. In fact, they aren't even called "Yin and Yang Kurama". Minato and Naruto have always referred to it as "half of Kurama's chakra". We just know, given the context, which halves each possess. Its still only a portion of Kurama's chakra. So, by your logic, they aren't jinchūriki until they have both halves. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 17:32, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

What I'm saying is that Kuramas are an unique case. They are both Kurama, just like both halves of Mu are still each Mu. But a portion of a Tailed Beast's chakra isn't a Tailed Beast in itself. What you imply with that is that there's no such thing such as pseudo-jinchuuriki, and Kinkaku&Ginkaku were Kurama's jinchuuriki instead, if I get it right.--Elveonora (talk) 17:47, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

We're getting somewhere here. Firstly, we should know the pseudo-jinchūriki is an anime-only term. That out of the way, Kurama's case is not unique. The Son Gokū Naruto talked to in this chapter is the same Son Gokū that was sealed in Rōshi. It doesn't matter how small or large the chakra, the chakra that is inside of Naruto is just as much Son as is the chakra within the Gedo Mazō within Madara. Its the same case as Yin Kurama and Yang Kurama. They're the same bijū. Same chakra. They were just split up by a fūinjutsu. Kinkaku and Ginkaku are the only unique cases here. They ate Kurama's meat and gained its chakra. Their chakra wasn't sentient. They simply had it become part of them because they ate some of Kurama's chakra meat. By definition (using the anime's Sora as a standard) they are pseudo-jinchūriki, because, like Sora, their chakra was just that. Chakra. No sentience involved. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 17:52, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

After reading the chapters again, it appears Naruto only had half of Kurama, the "head" of Gyuuki, and the "head" of Shukaku. Those 3 were the original ones to speak to him, too. However, he later speaks to Son Goku and has chakra. During the same chapter (666) when they are sealed within him (And Elv, the manga blatantly states the beasts themselves (a part of them) were actually taken adn sealed - so he is a full Jinchuuriki again (Madara even comments on it)), however, all the names of the bijuu are said, along with a giant pool of them combined together. What this means, I don't know. It feels almost as if Kish himself forgot only 3 were taken because of how Naruto acted with Son Goku. But at least everything is laid out on the table now, and hopefully people can move on and admit mistakes.--Taynio (talk) 17:51, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

You're forgetting when he got the other beasts chakra back when he, Kakashi, and Guy fought Obito. He got all but two of the chakras then. When Obito sealed the other chakras into him (Gyūki and Shukaku), he got the last two pieces he needed. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 17:54, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
I did forget about that. I guess that makes a lot of logical sense, given that Obito only grabbed two, which were the only two Naruto didn't have. Wait. Wouldn't Gyuuki had given him chakra back during that time, too? Hm. I mean what you say makes sense, and what happens in in chapter 666. But hm. I need to sit on it longer. Madara also said Obito was weak and only managed to grab two, but I wonder if that was because it was by decision given the two that were missing, which would be the refuting argument. Argh. My head hurts. There are holes =(--Taynio (talk) 18:01, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

I think we should wait and see what his tailed beast mode (the BEAST, not what he's in now) before we make any decision on whether or not he is the jinchuuriki of the other 8. Cause if he can fully transform into the others, then yes. Otherwise no. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 18:05, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

So if I'm getting it right, the argument of jinchuuriki vs pseudo-jinchuuriki is that the former has chakra with consciousness while the latter doesn't. Well, I disagree with that definition. To me a jinchuuriki is someone who has an entity inside of him which can produce more chakra, while pseudo-jinchuuriki someone who just has the produced chakra (which presumably can run out eventually). Only once and if Naruto transforms into Son Goku etc. Tailed Beast Mode will I admit you are right. He is currently in "Senjutsu 9 Tailed Beasts' Chakras Mode" or what to call that, we will see next chapter what happens.--Elveonora (talk) 18:13, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

At the very least, Naruto has 50% of Kurama (half Minato had), and part of the actual bodies of Gyuuki and Shukaku (about the head to shoulders, theoretically (based on the panel)). As for the other 6, I don't know what to say, but they did all give power to him, and he can seemingly draw from it and talk to them inside. --Taynio (talk) 18:16, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
In my honest opinion, the 1-to-8 Tailed Beasts in Naruto are akin to Shadow Clones. They have consciousness, but not a soul or "real" body, they are just conscious chakra. Again, them speaking and all is no evidence that there's now 18 Tailed Beasts.--Elveonora (talk) 18:25, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
Elv, honey. As I said, at the very least: Gyuuki and Shukakau ARE, completely, without a doubt, no opinion, no theory, assumption... Anything... Are inside Naruto. Obito grabbed about 1/3 (guess) of their body, akin to 1/2 of Kurama, and sealed them within Naruto. So, again, at the very.... very.. least. 3 bijuu are inside of Naruto, in the very "entity" form you want to throw around. Madara even stated this himself in the very same chapter. That aside, there is no way they'd be akin to shadow clones. I don't know how you come up with that analogy, it's a very poor one. Every piece of chakra is a peice of bijuu. They are made out of chakra. I dont know why you forget this. They were not born, they were made out of the chakra of something else. Yes, they can still be entities,b ut that doesn't negate the fact they're chakra entities. Any part of them stolen in "chakra" form is part of them. I don't even believe in pseudo-Jinchuuriki, on a personal level. IIRc, it was only ever used in the anime. If I am mistaken, then shame on me, but that doesn't negate what I said. --Taynio (talk) 18:32, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
Well, I disagree. And I already told you that I'm positive the Tailed Beasts "existence-wise" are no less real than a human is lets say. They aren't just "transformed chakra" they are literal flesh. To me people calling them "chakra monsters" is no different than "natural disasters" or "corrupted priests".

Basically I was right, you two say that there are 18 Tailed Beasts now and that's far-fetched. I would like Seelentau and Omni's opinions on this, because this is a very important topic for sure.--Elveonora (talk) 18:38, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

inb4 forgetting about Kurama being split in half to make "10 non-juubi bijuu". It wouldn't make 18. It's still 9. What you're suggesting is far-fetched, Elv. --Taynio (talk) 18:44, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

Chakra is an odd thing especially when it comes oto tailed beast. So I can understand where Elveonora is coming from. The term pseudo-jinchūriki was confirmed with the Gold and Silver Brothers. That being said none of us knows how chakra of tailed beasts operate within a pseudo-jinchūriki works. Yes we saw Obito take Gyūki and Shukaku which would reflect a similar situation with the halves of Kurama, but that does not hold true for the other tailed beasts. We shouldn't rush to force the situation to fit a mould.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 18:38, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

I do not disagree regarding the other 6. As far as we know right now, Naruto has chakra from 6, and 3 actual parts of bijuu -- 1/3? of Gyuuki and Shukaku, and 1/2 of Kurama (to satisfy Elv). --Taynio (talk) 18:44, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
He has them all. Hagoromo, Naruto, and all nine tailed beasts had an active conversation within Naruto. Hagoromo flat out said "You now have all nine tailed beasts inside of you," in the last chapter. It really doesn't get anymore plain than that. If you're waiting for Naruto to turn into all nine tailed beasts for your "confirmation", I'll be back to collect your skeletons in a few decades. You'll still be waiting by then. Our confirmation was Hagoromo saying they're all present inside Naruto and the conscious pieces of chakra having a conversation with each other as well as being able to actively respond both with words and action to Naruto's requests. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 19:46, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
I do not disagree, but I was simply trying to differentiate exactly how for some people. --Taynio (talk) 20:23, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
Except Naruto had chakras of 7 Tailed Beasts before they were even re-sealed into Gedo Mazo. What you say is that they are inside of Naruto and Madara at the same time, therefore 18 Tailed Beasts. Again, conscious chakra isn't confirmation that they are the "actual" Tailed Beasts in "person" (soul and body) Also Naruto handled Kurama's chakra to the whole Alliance, cool, next thing you tell me is that there's tens of thousands of Kuramas or something. Again, I see the TB chakras talking as nothing more than something similar to Shadow Clone phenomenon--Elveonora (talk) 20:04, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
I don't care how long he's had them. They only became relevant once he got them all and Kishi started making it a point in the series. And you can think of them however you want to, but they're not Shadow Clones. The tailed beasts are living, breathing, chakra. The fact that Kurama can be split in two and sealed in two different people, retain consciousness, and its other attributes is proof beyond a reasonable doubt that taking and sealing a portion of a tailed beasts' chakra into another person is enough to make them a jinchūriki. One does not need the entire beast. Again. By your logic, Naruto hasn't been a jinchūriki this entire series, and that's a load of crap. You can't say it works for Naruto because Yin and Yang are involved. That's ludicrous. A portion went to Naruto, a portion went to Minato. The same logic applies here. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 20:10, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

I already told you that Yin and Yang Kurama are an unique case. Shinigami split their souls into two, Minato didn't simply take a piece of chakra, hell they are even different colors unlike the chakras of Tailed Beasts inside of Naruto which aren't black last time I checked. Also Naruto's eyes are that of Kurama's (obviously because he has the actual Tailed Beast) and not a merger of all nine's eyes.--Elveonora (talk) 20:18, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

...Naruto is the only jinchūriki whose eyes ever changed to begin with. So, no it wouldn't. Also, Chapter 671 spits all over your "unique case" theory. Like. Totally demolishes it. Their souls (like Hashirama's) are inside Naruto attached to their chakra. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 20:30, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
Minato and Kushina also appeared in Naruto's mind when he had their chakra, yet their souls weren't attached to it, and the real Minato doesn't even seem to remember his chakra's interaction with Naruto. Orochimaru's chakra within Kabuto and the cursed seals also had his consciousness, as he explicitly said, yet there's only one Orochimaru. All chakra contains consciousness (spiritual energy), and the tailed beasts might not even have souls for all we know. There's no way of knowing whether the tailed beasts in Naruto are "real" or not, since there's never been any other case like his. Also, nobody ever said Kinkaku and Ginkaku's Nine-Tails chakra didn't have a consciousness, Naruto's case might be more or less the same as theirs.--BeyondRed (talk) 23:34, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
Again with Minato and Kushina. Again. Not Tailed beasts so they're irrelevant. And again, chapter 671 spits all over that argument. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 00:38, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
Not sure how it's irrelevant though. The argument that Naruto has the actual tailed beasts and not just their chakra is that their consciousness is also inside him, my point was that all transferred chakra has the person's consciousness inside it, human or tailed beast, so that isn't definite proof. He may very well have the actual tailed beasts (as in, they were split into a second beast just like Kurama) but he may also have just chakra, the same way the entire alliance now has Yang-Kurama's chakra, which presumably isn't permanent. It just seems better to be cautious about what Naruto is classified as, since his case is so unique.--BeyondRed (talk) 01:06, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
Its irrelevant because in the chapter I just mentioned, Yin Kurama says that Naruto has all the tailed beasts in him and Gyūki says Naruto now has all the tailed beast power that he lacked. Nothing that Elve says can refute that. They're inside of him. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 01:24, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
Fair enough, the dialogue does imply that, but if that's the case then that means simply being given a tailed beast's chakra makes you a jinchuriki, since that's all Son and the others did, as far as we've been told. What do we do about the alliance then? In particular, Kakashi was handed chakra by Yang-Kurama prior to Naruto handing out a mixture of his Kurama's chakra to everybody else. Unless there's a version of chakra transfer that splits a tailed beast and another version that simply hands out chakra, they would all be jinchuriki, would they not?--BeyondRed (talk) 01:42, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

-Resetting indent- @ Beyond: The difference is who contains chakra. Naruto is the house, the vessel. Anyone who has been a Jinchuuriki has housed the bijuu/chakra. Kakashi was just given a chakra boost, like taking a shot of adrenaline. Same for the alliance. The chakra was transferred through them, and I'd consider them pseudo-jinchuuriki over the two Brothers. --Taynio (talk) 01:49, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

What a lot of you guys aren't realizing is that Naruto only has a portion of Tailed Beasts' 1 - 8 chakra inside of him. While he actually has Yin Kurama inside of him. Yes, it is true that Yin Kurama is incomplete. But he isn't just chakra, he is his own actual physical being. He even looks different from Yang Kurama, unlike the other Tailed Beast, who look the same. So as I was saying, the other Tailed Beast inside of Naruto are just some of their chakra. Having some of a Tailed Beasts' chakra inside of you doesn't automatically make you a Jinchuriki.

Say what you want to say about Jinchuriki and Pseudo-Jinchuriki, but the different terms actually make sense. A Jinchuriki is a human who has the actual Tailed Beast inside of them, a pseudo-Jinchuriki is a human who only has some of its chakra. Tailed Beast are not just chakra entities, they actually have physical bodies and the ability to bleed and produce other bodily fluids. They even have the ability to run out of chakra for a little bit and then it regenerates later. So I personally don't understand the confusion. Basically what I'm trying to say is, is that Naruto is the Jinchuriki of Yin Kurama and Pseudo-Jinchuriki of the other Tailed Beast. Another thing I would like to mention is that yes it is true that the sage and Yin Kurama said he has all of the Tailed Beast inside of him. But I think you're all taking it too literal, what he obviously meant is that he has all of their chakra. As it is literally impossible for him to be the complete Jinchuriki of all nine Tailed Beast at the same time that Madara is also the Jinchuriki of all nine Tailed Beast. Unless, like Elve said, you're implying there are now 18 Tailed Beast. --Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 (talk) 02:56, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

Pseudo-jin might be an anime-originated term, but the thing exists in canon with Kinkaku and Ginkaku. Regarding pseudo or full, I think that the chakra of the beasts having a consciousness in Naruto can be argued for him being considered a full jin, even if the chakra of the others (bar maybe Gyuki and Shukaku) was shared instead of sealed.

@Legendary Super Saiya-Jin, finally someone who gets it. Also @Foxie, Gaara says hello (about the eyes)--Elveonora (talk) 10:14, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

Gaara's dad had the rings too. Point moot. I don't see how he gets it, either, because he's just rehashing your point, which, for the third time, chapter 671 spat all over. You cannot get around two tailed beasts flat out saying they're inside Naruto. Either of you. Period. Anything else? ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 16:44, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

Yes they're indeed inside of him, but only their chakra is inside of him. Not their actual bodies, therefore he cannot be considered a full Jinchuriki without their actual bodies. It is literally not possible for Naruto and Madara to both be the complete Jinchuriki of the exact same beast at the same time unless their beings were split in half like Yin and Yang Kurama's body was. But their bodies were not, only some of their chakra was transferred to Naruto. That's all I'm saying to say, which is why I disagree with Naruto being listed as the Jinchuriki of all of them. --Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 (talk) 21:39, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

@Foxie, I wasn't talking about the ring. For chapter 671, perhaps you take it just too literary, chakra with consciousness you could say it's "them" but the real them are still inside of Gedo Mazo--Elveonora (talk) 09:23, April 18, 2014 (UTC)

Elve, I'm referring to Gyūki and Kurama blantantly, flat out saying that all of the tailed beasts are within Naruto. Like, they actually say it. Kurama says, "You now have all the tailed beasts within you, Naruto!" and Gyūki says, "This was Obito! He knew what tailed beast power you still lacked!" Yes, a large portion of them is still in the statute, but what does that have to do with anything? Half of Kurama is in the Statue and the other half is in Naruto. Soooo... is Kurama just a chakra "shadow clone" like you speculate? No. You can't just make up facts as you want because you've attached "Yin" and "Yang" to Kurama's name. The point is Minato proved that you can split a tailed beast's chakra in two and the two halves still be a tailed beast all on their own. By that logic, and the fact that all nine of them are conscious and are having an active conversation with him, not to mention consciously lending them their power. A portion of their chakra is in Naruto and they have consciousness. Therefore he is their jinchūriki. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 16:52, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
Again, what happened to Kurama isn't the same as what happened to them. Kurama got split using a technique into yin and yang halves and one is black, the tailed beasts inside of Naruto are just portions of chakra, not duplicates--Elveonora (talk) 21:48, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
Your thought process defies all reason. Despite what you think, Kurama isn't a unique case (clearly) and you have yet to address Kurama flat out stating the other tailed beasts are inside of Naruto, but whatever. I'll let others chime in. I'm quite done arguing the obvious. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 21:50, April 21, 2014 (UTC)

A person too can be at multiple places at once, it's called shadow clone. But there is only one original, the rest are a temporary existence--Elveonora (talk) 22:00, April 21, 2014 (UTC)

All elements unlocked

Seeing as how Naruto has all power of all the bijū and Hagoromo, doesn't this mean he now also has unlocked all the elements?--Reliops (talk) 14:04, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

No~ • Seelentau 愛 14:14, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

it is speculation. Munchvtec (talk) 14:16, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

Based in fact. If it is a fact that Hagoromo, who had all elements, passed on his powers to Naruto, then Naruto has those same powers, does he not?--Reliops (talk) 14:22, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

No. • Seelentau 愛 14:33, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
It is supposed belief that Hagoromo had quick, masterful access to all five elements due to Rinnegan. --Taynio (talk) 14:41, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

In theory he has access to four of the basic nature types thanks to the tailed beasts, but until he's actually shown utilising them, or stated to have them, we really can't add them to the article.--Soul reaper (talk) 14:59, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

We don't know what the Sage gave Naruto (though it is more likely the access to his style of senjutsu). Hagoromo had access to all the elements because of the Rinnegan, but Naruto did not get that.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 18:19, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

Saiken definitely has water release though, so Naruto should have access to that at least.--Reliops (talk) 21:09, April 18, 2014 (UTC)

Still, he has yet to show wheter he can use it.--JOA20 (talk) 21:12, April 18, 2014 (UTC)
Saiken has never displayed any Water Release in canon. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 06:01, April 21, 2014 (UTC)

So now Naruto used Jiton and Madara used Ranton, isn't it obvious that the Sage's power does away with limitations? The five basic elements are unlocked. They can mix them as they please. Obito did it, Naruto did it, and now Madara has done it.--Reliops (talk) 01:37, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Naruto's use of Magnet Release stems from Shukaku, just like how he has Lava from Son Goku. His usage of those elements have nothing to do with the Sage's power. "Demons run when a good man goes to war." (talk) 01:55, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Then pray tell whose power Obito was using when he mixed at least 4 elements together? What about Madara then, when he used Storm release?--Reliops (talk) 02:41, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

I don't know, I can't say facts I don't know about Obito or Madara. All I know is in Naruto's case, he was directly shown asking for chakra from Son Goku and Shukaku prior to Lava and Magnet being used. "Demons run when a good man goes to war." (talk) 03:43, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Naruto Kurama info box ..

now that he has the two halve is it still necessary to say Kurama ying and yang half ? even though they are still two different personality aren't both kurama o_O--Tchad1 (talk) 16:17, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

He doesn't have both. He had one, lost it and got the other. At no point has he ever had the whole Kurama.--Soul reaper (talk) 16:23, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
That is incorrect. He currently has both residing in him. The chapter even explicitly had Naruto asking "The other half of Kurama is in here too?!". How in the world would Obito grab one half of Kurama, along with 8 other bijuu, and completely miss a half of Kurama? --Taynio (talk) 17:26, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
Obito grabbed only a piece of Shukaku and Gyuki's chakras--Elveonora (talk) 17:28, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
What Elve said. Naruto had the other Bijū inside him already. Obito grabbed Gyūki and Shukaku. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 17:30, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
From what I understand, all Yin-Kurama did was merge with the little bit of Yang-Kurama's chakra that was already in him. Also chakra is screwy.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 18:03, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

Don't recall there being any bit of Yang Kurama left to be merged with Yin Kurama. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 03:35, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

Sensor

If Naruto is able to sense Asura's and is able to keep Guy's chakra from running out, doesn't that make him a sensor. Jtw2014 (talk) 21:47, April 16, 2014 (UTC)Jtw2014

Technically if he was in his Super Sage Mode, that auto-sensors him. He's not a sensor, but Sage Mode turns it on, so to speak.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 21:48, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
He is now in permanent Sage Mode, does that make him a full-time sensor?--Elveonora (talk) 22:00, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
Wouldn't say so. If Naruto's current cross-eye mode is permanent, there's no more base Naruto as we know. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 03:35, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
That's the implication ^_--Elveonora (talk) 10:10, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

Maybe his new form isn't permanent, it just doesn't have a time limit. Just like how The Rinnegan can be active for however long the person wants it to be, as in Madara's case ItachiWasAHero (talk) 21:46, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

Water Release...

I know this is a speculation but can Naruto use Water Release with the help of Isobu's Nature Type since he already used Son Goku's kekkai genkai (Lava Release) and Shukaku's kekkai genkai (Magnet Release) on his Rasengan and Rasenshuriken. DetectiveDuckling (talk) 16:40, April 21, 2014 (UTC)

Until he is shown using it, no, he cannot. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 16:41, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
Even better, Isobu was only shown using Water Release, in the anime.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 17:12, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
"Until he is shown using it, no, he cannot" hypocrisy 10/10 because he is yet to use YYR the last time I checked--Elveonora (talk) 21:45, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
He used Truthseeker Orbs, which, no matter how much you deny and scream about, have Yin-Yang Release involved in them. The only hypocrisy that goes on around here is in your head, so I implore you to stop going around posting that on every talk page around here. It starts to lose its effect after the 100th time. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 21:48, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
Actually he is yet to use them, but whatever.--Elveonora (talk) 22:01, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
Wrong again. New RAWs shows him using them in quite a few pages. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 22:06, April 21, 2014 (UTC)

As sticks, he is yet to shoot or nullify ninjutsu with them.--Elveonora (talk) 22:16, April 21, 2014 (UTC)

Yin-Yang Release User

A popular new belief from the recent chapter is that Naruto can use the Yin-Yang Release because he now wields the Truth-Seeking Orbs. That is incorrect. The TSO start off as simply using at least four of the five basic elements as Hiruzen said. Furthermore, if the YYR's negating power was present from the beginning, Hiruzen would have been obliterated by Obito destroying his upper body. It wasn't until AFTER Obito regained control that he could add the YYR to the mix that the negating power took place. Until Naruto actually uses the YYR to negate an attack, something similar, or someone expicitely says Naruto can use it, Naruto should not be listed as a YYR user, like how Madara wasn't listed as a Lightning Release user despite having the Rinnegan until after he was finally seen using a LR technique. Steveo920, April 21, 2014, 18:22

I agree with you, but don't bother, because derp--Elveonora (talk) 14:03, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

now that finally

Fallacies and speculation have been removed, all that's left is to list Sage Art: Lava Release Rasenshuriken as a collaboration technique between Son Goku and Naruto and Sage Art: Magnet Release Rasengan as a collaboration technique between Shukaku and Naruto.--Elveonora (talk) 14:02, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

No. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 14:05, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
Yes, unless you have a good reason--Elveonora (talk) 14:06, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
Tailed Beast Ball too then yes, for Killer B, Naruto and Minato yes? And I will also add Madara and Obito as well because they are using the Ten-Tails to do it but I feel they get enough leeway because they are the ones forcing the Ten-Tails to do anything.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 14:07, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
Tailed Beast Ball is originally a Tailed Beasts' technique, they don't require to be inside of a jinchuuriki to use it. Obito and Madara are using the Ten-Tails' chakra as their own to perform techniques. Naruto had Son Goku and Shukaku respectively mold Yoton and Jinton for him, hence collaboration. If Naruto just used their chakra and performed the nature transformations on his own, he would be the user. That is where the difference lies.--Elveonora (talk) 14:13, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Tailed Beast Ball as a collaboration? Your reasonings are not needed for this question, a simple yes or no will do.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 14:16, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Of course not.--Elveonora (talk) 14:18, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

You two are acting like brats. Can you grow the fuck up? As or the subject at hand, it is a collab technique.Naruto wouldn't be able to perform it without Shukaku OR Son Goku. This proves, undefiably, that it is, in fact, a collaboration technique. Derigar (talk) 14:24, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Why do people strive to create strife so much? Your comment was absolutely unnecessary Derigar. I do like this notion though Elveonora. But I believe this would mean that all tailed beast skills would be classified as such.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 14:31, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
Why is Tailed Beast Ball not a collaboration? Isn't Naruto, B, and Minato shelving their chakra to use the Tailed Beast Balls, thus either asking or taking the chakra from the other? Is the only thing that makes a collaboration technique a collaboration technique going "Hey, let me have some chakra?" Don't be biased now. For your argument to work, everything has to be collaboration techs. Congratulations.
And yes, Derigar this is completely childish. But I'm hoping it get's my point across and it's far more amusing than trying to yell at a wall.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 14:33, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
@Cerez, some, not all, but yes. @Ultimate, specific instances of its usage are, like in case of Killer B and Gyuki and so on, but that isn't a reason to add "collaboration technique" to TBB's infobox, because that is an optional variant and not mandatory for it be performed by both a jinchuuriki and a biju. EDIT: to make it even easier to understand, TBB isn't a collaboration technique for the same reason why Shadow Clone technique isn't a parent technique to the Rasengan--Elveonora (talk) 14:44, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
I don't edit here very often, only when I see fit. But this time I will put in my two cents. I think that the Tailed Beast Ball is not a Collaboration Technique because it the user is using jutsu that the tailed beast is able to use. The fallacy that Sage Art: Magnet Release Rasengan is not a Collaboration Technique because it is a tailed beast skill is literally making me cringe. It's simple math really. For example, when Jiraya and Gamabunta use the Fire Release: Toad Oil Flame Bullet together, they are using Toad Oil Bullet & Fire Release: Flame Bullet simultaneously to make Fire Release: Toad Oil Flame Bullet. 1 + 1 = 2. When Naruto uses his Rasengan added with the Magnet Release of Shukaku, Naruto is able to use Sage Art: Magnet Release Rasengan. 1 + 1 = 2. I just don't understand. Please explain. Zelwolf (talk) 14:50, April 22, 2014 (UTC)Zelwolf
When you guys replied to Derigar's message that way, you guys just proved yourselves. Well nevermind. Elveonora has a point that the techniques mentioned are collaboration techniques. ~IndxcvNovelist (talk | contribs | PR | RLS) 14:55, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

@Zelwolf, pretty much this. Son Goku and Shukaku respectively supplied him with their Yoton and Jinton and Naruto did Rasenshuriken and Rasengan using the chakras. He didn't "spit the oil" so the speak in the equation--Elveonora (talk) 14:57, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

I could care less about any of that Zelwolf. I'm just saying if they are, Tailed Beast Ball is as well. At least as far as the jinchuriki are concerned.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 14:59, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
As far as the jinchuuriki are concerned yes, but the infobox doesn't work that way. Unless you want it state "collaboration technique (jinchuuriki only)" or something. Not sure if that is even possible--Elveonora (talk) 15:02, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
See no reason why it can't just go in the infobox and then mentioned in the article in some contrived fashion. After all, not having it is then representing misinformation as fact, isn't that right?--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 15:06, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
No, Tailed Beat Ball is not a collaboration technique. The jinchuriki of any tailed beast are using a justsu that the tailed beast already has. The tailed beast can use the Tailed Beast Ball regardless of being sealed inside someone or not. They do not need anyone else chakra or body or anything. For the case of Sage Art: Magnet Release Rasengan and the Lava Release Rasenshuriken Naruto is using the chakra added with his rasengan to make a brand new type of rasengan. Naruto could not have used the Magnet Release Rasengan without Shukaku, and Shukaku could not use the Rasengan without Naruto. They are combinding their techniques to make a brand new one. Zelwolf (talk) 15:06, April 22, 2014 (UTC)Zelwolf
Please stop deleting other people's messages from the discussion Zelwolf or you will receive a warning for talkpage violations.--Speysider Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | Channel 15:08, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
I'm sure that was by an accident Spey, it happens--Elveonora (talk) 15:12, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Sorry Speysider, I didn't realize I was doing that. If I'm doing it I'm not doing it on purpose, sorry. Zelwolf (talk) 15:10, April 22, 2014 (UTC)Zelwolf

"They are combinding their techniques to make a brand new one" This right here is the very reason your argument falls apart. They are not combining techniques. One is adding its chakra to the other's technique, and thus it fails to meet the current definition of a collaboration jutsu. It's not the Rasengan+another jutsu, it's the rasengan+other chakra.--Soul reaper (talk) 15:14, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
"When Naruto uses his Rasengan added with the Magnet Release of Shukaku, Naruto is able to use Sage Art: Magnet Release Rasengan." Is that better for you? Sorry I wasn't clear enough. Zelwolf (talk) 15:19, April 22, 2014 (UTC)Zelwolf
I believe it's an edit conflict, Spey. @Soul reaper, I'm confused now. I've read the article (Collaboration Techniques) and it fits the criteria. (Tailed Beast Ball is not a collaboration technique because it's mostly the bijuu's and it can be done without the jinchuriki). ~IndxcvNovelist (talk | contribs | PR | RLS) 15:24, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

"Pulling an Ultimate3" (no offense :P) techniques are employed chakra in a specific way, move on. You could say Nature Transformation is sort of a technique--Elveonora (talk) 15:22, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

It's not that it was unclear Zelwolf, it simply doesn't meet the definition of a collaboration jutsu. As I understand it, a collaboration jutsu is when two jutsus are used in tandem to increase their power. For example, Naruto and Sasuke separately use their Wind Release: Rasenshuriken and Blaze Release: Kagutsuchi, then they put the two together and make the far more powerful Scorch Release: Halo Gale Jet Black Arrow Style Zero. But when Naruto uses Sage Art: Magnet Release Rasengan, he is not putting two techniques together, instead he is adding a nature type to an existing technique to create a new one.--Soul reaper (talk) 15:26, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
Just please explain to me to me how Sage Art: Magnet Release Rasengan doesnt fit the criteria of a colab technique. "one will feed into each other to become a technique of greater power than the sum of its parts" -The Colab Page. What Naruto is doing is the same thing Jiraya and Gamabunta did, and the same thing Sasuke and Naruto did. I'm very confused as to why this does not fit the criteria. Because to me it all fits together. Zelwolf (talk) 15:35, April 22, 2014 (UTC)Zelwolf

So Combination Transformation isn't a collaboration technique and neither are most of Kiba's techniques since its him who transforms Akamaru into himself and does the merger?--Elveonora (talk) 15:38, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

You got me there Elvenora.--Soul reaper (talk) 15:42, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
Sure I did ^_ You got that right there from databook, providing chakra alone for something counts as a collaboration technique--Elveonora (talk) 15:48, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
Naruto unquestionably has the chakra of the tailed beasts. Naruto and Kurama melded their chakra when they made nice, does that mean that Nine-Tails Chakra Mode is a collaboration technique? If we're shown him using another different nature, knowing which beast it comes from, but without the question, then it's not a combination technique. It requires a cooperation, but I don't think it's proper to do so. It feels more like a courtesy than an actual requirement at this point. Are we going to say that Kurama is a Rasenshuriken user because Naruto used it while in Nine-Tails Chakra Mode, in which we know he shelves his chakra to use Kurama's? I wouldn't. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:06, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
Following the logic I've seen, yes Kurama would also be a user or Rasenshuriken.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 18:10, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
Nine-Tails Chakra Mode isn't a merger of their chakras, Tailed Beast Mode is. No, because Rasenshuriken doesn't require Kurama. But Sage Art: Lava Release Rasenshuriken and Sage Art: Magnet Release Rasengan require Son Goku and Shukaku respectively. @Ultimate, no one suggested such a thing, quite the contrary. You are being explained the reasoning and all you do is pretending otherwise. Not sure if you misunderstand it or are just purposely acting childisly--Elveonora (talk) 18:12, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
So does that mean Mini-Rasenshuriken, Planetary Rasengan, Rasenkyūgan, and ect can be used by Kurama since they've only been shown with Nine-Tails chakra?--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 18:30, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
Kurama didn't have any role in their creation besides Naruto having used its chakra for chakra arms to make them.--Elveonora (talk) 19:08, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Still Kurama's chakra, or wasn't your argument that just providing the chakra counts as collaboration? This is why that argument doesn't work. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:02, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

It does. It wasn't Kurama's intent for Naruto to use its chakra and make those techniques, hence no collaboration between the two. Kurama had like zero active role in it. In case of Kiba transforming Akamaru, Akamaru still has to maintain the transformation himself. In case of Naruto using Lavashuriken, "Son Goku" consciously molded its chakra and gave it to Naruto for the purpose of him using it for a technique. Your logic of Kurama being Mini-Rasenshuriken user and so is the same as it being user of Gentle Fist because Hinata did that using Kurama's chakra--Elveonora (talk) 20:08, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
So Kurama is a Kamui user now? Kurama, while in control of Naruto's body, gave Kakashi chakra so he could come and go into the other dimension more easily. We must add that Kurama is a Kamui user, and by consequence, a Mangekyo Sharingan wielder. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:39, April 23, 2014 (UTC)
Are you guys trolling or something? I told you such logic would be like saying Kurama is a Gentle Fist user. We are talking about original techniques here. Rasengan for example isn't now a collaboration technique just because Naruto and Minato did it together.--Elveonora (talk) 18:43, April 23, 2014 (UTC)
It's the only one to show that merely providing chakra for another to perform a technique isn't a collaboration, as argued above, it seems. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:38, April 23, 2014 (UTC)
Hue hue hue.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 21:57, April 23, 2014 (UTC)

I think we should conclude that this is a unique situation. Naruto, as the Jinjuriki of the one tails and four tails, asked their chakra. The beasts had a choice of giving the chakra or not. Difference between bijuu mode and this, is that this chakra has been molded already by the beast itself. It was readily made and given to Naruto, whereas Naruto used raw Kyubi chakra (and B used raw Hachibi chakra). It might seem a little complicated, but it seems the best solution. Now to find a way to concretely put it together on the pages... Derigar (talk) 23:47, April 23, 2014 (UTC)

@Omni, you are missing the point. If party A does something for party B because party B can't do so on his/her own, it's a collaboration between the two. If party B merely uses something that belongs to party A, it isn't a collaboration. Kurama being Kamui user and so on doesn't work, because Kakashi can use Kamui without Kurama. Naruto used the two Rasengans with the "Tailed Beasts" providing their nature transformations for him, hence collaboration technique. Not sure if I can put it any clearer than this... A collaboration = effort of two parties to achieve a result--Elveonora (talk) 12:18, April 24, 2014 (UTC)

@Derigar: That's the issue, it's not a unique situation; it's not really any different from what we've already known about the tailed beast and their jinchuriki. When a jinchuriki is using a tailed beasts ability, for whatever reason, they are getting it from that tailed beast, be it by force or by jolly cooperation. Naruto asking or being given the chakra is exactly the same as him suplexing the Nine-Tails and using its chakra by force, its just going about it way way nicer. That's where the line in this entire discussion keeps hitting a wall, people fighting tooth and nail trying to find a difference between these two situations when there isn't one.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 12:32, April 24, 2014 (UTC)
Stop making stuff up please. It's getting boring at this point.--Elveonora (talk) 12:56, April 24, 2014 (UTC)
When you stop being noticibly biased, dismissive of other people's arguments and being a dismissive prat.-TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 13:17, April 24, 2014 (UTC)
That was a bit much but I do not appreciate being accused of lying.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 13:24, April 24, 2014 (UTC)
Okay "dismissive prat" apologies. I should have just said that I think you mix apples with oranges, that's all.

Anyway, quite a few people agree with my collaboration proposal, quite a few disagree... (even tho I'm yet to see an actual anti-argument that doesn't fail at its own "logic") but oh well.--Elveonora (talk) 13:52, April 24, 2014 (UTC) What I seem to be missing is the moving goalposts of your arguments every time I give a situation in which your definition of combination technique doesn't work. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:16, April 24, 2014 (UTC)

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