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{{ArchiveList}}
== How old is Naruto? ==
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== possible theories stated as fact ==
The latest Chapter 643 states that the Naruto World is currently on the night before Naruto's birthday, which is October 9th. Doing the math, Naruto's age right now should be 16 years and a few months. Or was he never 15 in the first place? Should we make Naruto's age 15-17 now?{{unsigned|Kadio123}}
 
:We're not changing his age. The manga says that, in-universe, his birthday is the next day (tomorrow). He's only 16 right now. Everything stays the same until it changes days in the manga. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 03:40, August 21, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
== Two tabs for long character articles ==
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What's this "hiruzen gave naruto his mother's name cos he didn't want enemies knowing the connection between him and minato" ? The only thing minato said was that Hiruzen didn't tell him about his parents. Naruto has been naruto uzumaki since day one because kishimoto started the story with name plus the swirls and spirals associated naruto's name [[User:Rayzur|Rayzur]] ([[User talk:Rayzur|talk]]) 21:28, March 17, 2014 (UTC)
[http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Naruto_Uzumaki/Archive_12#Tabs_in_articles Sorry for bringing this up again], but I just think we can have two tabs ('Introduction', 'Plot') for long character articles (those that have over 75,000 bytes, more or less), since the plot section on certain characters keeps on growing. This way, we can still use the table of contents. [[User:KazeKitsune|KazeKitsune]] ([[User talk:KazeKitsune|talk]]) 05:23, October 6, 2013 (UTC)
 
: I'm just going to be honest, I've seen this done before on a wiki I'm apart of, as well as over on the ''Bleach'' wiki and it just doesn't look good. I know, we're not really shooting for looks here, but, trust me, its really doesn't look good anywhere I've seen it. Aside from the visual appearance, its a bit of a hassle for editors, and can get confusing as for what to add where. Let's add to that the fact that its unnecessary. Yes, being the titular character, Naruto has a very long article, but I can load it in less than two seconds on a speedy connection and under a minute on a slow one, like the one I have at college or on my phone's Wi-Fi. I honestly don't think its necessary. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 05:31, October 6, 2013 (UTC)
 
::Oh well then, at least I got to say what I want to say. [[User:KazeKitsune|KazeKitsune]] ([[User talk:KazeKitsune|talk]]) 06:03, October 6, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::I've seen it done on One piece and honestly I would have no problem splitting someone like Naruto or Sasuke's arcs from the appearance abilities and especially personality.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 07:36, October 6, 2013 (UTC)
 
::::As another idea related to this, why not do something like Naruto_Uzumaki/Background and Naruto_Uzumaki/Appearance and load them into the page using {{Tlx|Main with-include}} ? --[[User:Speysider|Speysider]] <sup><small>[[User_talk:Speysider|Talk Page]] | [[User:Speysider/Images|My Image Uploads]] | [[User:Speysider/Tabber Code|Tabber Code]] | [http://youtube.com/LPSajuuk Channel]</small></sup> 08:34, October 6, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::::If absolutely necessary, I would prefer Speysider's solution since that seems more consistent with our current design of articles (we use it for Relationships, etc on [[Naruto]]'s page already).''' ~ [[User:UltimateSupreme|<span style="color:blue;">Ultimate</span>]][[User talk:UltimateSupreme|<span style="color:#EE2C2C;">Supreme</span>]]''' 10:32, October 6, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::::: I'm still against it, but, if its is absolutely necessary that we start splitting up articles (we'll have to the same for Obito and Madara soon enough if we start with Naruto and Sasuke), then I too would vote for Speysider's route. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 17:40, October 6, 2013 (UTC)
 
What is Speysider's route? But TheUltimate3 would prefer it if we had to move the plot off article, because it would be weird to move background, abilities and personality off page.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 17:42, October 6, 2013 (UTC)
 
: You just looooooove referring to yourself in third person, don't you >.> Anyways, if I understand Speysider correctly, and I think I do, he suggest move, say, the plot section (as you advised) to "Naruto Uzumaki/Plot", then, on the main article (this one), in the Plot section, we just use <nowiki>{{Main-with-include}}</nowiki> so that it will give a short blurb on the article, while leaving a "main" link to the new article. That way we don't make the article look tacky with three different tabs hovering at the top like on One Piece Wiki, which, I have to disagree with Cerez on - it looks hideous. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 17:49, October 6, 2013 (UTC)
 
:: Yes as of now I do find that enjoyable. And yes that sounds fine. If someone can whip up a sandbox to see what it looks like, that'll be cool.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 17:56, October 6, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
Tabs are a short term solution. Because this article is a mound of garbage large enough to eclipse the sun. To break down its size:
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I don't know, everyone has a different reasoning for this... ask Cerez--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:59, March 18, 2014 (UTC)
{| class="wikitable"
 
|-
 
! Section(s) !! Percentage of article
 
|-
 
| Abilities || 24.5%
 
|-
 
| Part I (all) || 11.7%
 
|-
 
| Part II (Kazekage → Confining) || 18.6%
 
|-
 
| Part II (War → current) || 25.5%
 
|-
 
| Everything else (Background, Personality, Appearance, Trivia, Quotes) || 19.6%
 
|}
 
Naruto's article is never going to be short, but it can be proportioned better than it currently is. '''''~[[User:Snapper2|Snapper]][[User talk:Snapper2|T]][[Special:Contributions/Snapper2|o]]''''' 18:20, October 6, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
Not sure if this is what's being suggested, but we could do it like they do in the Avatar Wiki. For the really big pages, usually main characters, articles are split per season. We could simply make sub pages for Part I and Part II, and then put an abridged version of the events in the section of the main article, with a link to the sub-page. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 18:38, October 6, 2013 (UTC)
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I could swear I remember along those lines being mentioned at some point. Some time, when someone mentions Minato having enemies, perhaps Iwagakure over the many shinobi he killed. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 23:05, March 18, 2014 (UTC)
   
So in essence it's look kinda like Jacce's request page? @Snapper easier said than done. I've personally tried to Marshall the content that people put into articles for Naruto and others like him and no matter what we do sometimes it gets thrown out of proportion by over zealous fan editors then stuff sneaks up on you or else is repeated half a dozen times. I'd be all for cutting some of these enormous articles down to size it's just that at times it's nothing short of a Herculean task.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 06:32, October 7, 2013 (UTC)
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I think it was Chakra Minato in naruto's mind?? or Jiraiya and Tsunade before he left to Amegakure?? It was one of those I think. [[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] ([[User talk:ItachiWasAHero|talk]]) 01:28, March 20, 2014 (UTC)
   
:Yeah, that's the rub. I'd always tell myself that I ''could'' shorten X article/section, but then I'd need to do it again at a later date. Like showering; why bother?
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Well I checked, it wasn't when Jiraiya was leaving for Amegakure, so it must be either with Chakra Minato or Kushina. --[[User:Hawkeye2701|Hawkeye2701]] ([[User talk:Hawkeye2701|talk]]) 01:44, March 20, 2014 (UTC)
:That's why I don't do either anymore.
 
:Although, I wonder if maybe the problem was trying to prune the hedge that others had grown when the real solution was to burn the hedge down and plant a new one.
 
:Quandaries... '''''~[[User:Snapper2|Snapper]][[User talk:Snapper2|T]][[Special:Contributions/Snapper2|o]]''''' 07:07, October 7, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
::[[User:Speysider/Naruto_Uzumaki]]. Created this by just including the Abilities section from the page (I copied the whole contents of the Abilities heading into a subpage of this sandbox page called /Abilities). Thoughts ? --[[User:Speysider|Speysider]] <sup><small>[[User_talk:Speysider|Talk Page]] | [[User:Speysider/Images|My Image Uploads]] | [[User:Speysider/Tabber Code|Tabber Code]] | [http://youtube.com/LPSajuuk Channel]</small></sup> 07:13, October 7, 2013 (UTC)
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Page 6 of Chapter 440 brings up that Hiruzen let as little information out as possible, since he'd be in constant danger if people knew who his father was. So while I admit, it wasn't out and out stated "Your name is Uzumaki to avoid the eventuality of my enemies coming to get you", it's much easier to explain away "We used someone from the same clan as Kushina for the host" as opposed to "Oh yeah, Naruto Namikaze, spikey blonde kid, is the host like Minato's old girlfriend, but don't sweat it, totally no relation." --[[User:Hawkeye2701|Hawkeye2701]] ([[User talk:Hawkeye2701|talk]]) 02:04, March 20, 2014 (UTC)
   
:::As I've already stated, I would rather things like abilities stay on page. But to be quite honest, that can be solved by just having a nonfanboyish approach to his ability section.
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==Vandalized==
:::*Because honestly, the boy does in total Shadow Clones, Nine-Tails chakra, Rasengan, Sage Tech, say what you want but Taijutsu is minor.
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To all Wikia members, please be aware that Naruto's page is getting vandalized. Please do everything it takes to stop that vandal. A similar case happened to Konata Izumi's page in Lucky Star Wiki a year ago. [[User:Nkqdotaku96|Nkqdotaku96]] ([[User talk:Nkqdotaku96|talk]]) 06:23, March 30, 2014 (UTC)Nkqdotaku96
:::Instead of having an ability section bigger than most articles that section itself could just be trimmed (and when I say trimmed, I mean gutted.).--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 11:48, October 7, 2013 (UTC)
 
::::well if we do this we can attack other articles like these. More than enough of us seem willing to take a hatchet to some of these articles. Gentlemen, to the sandbox? --[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 16:28, October 7, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::::@TU3 That was just an example of what would be getting done, I just picked a random section that was fairly long to use to demonstrate it.
 
:::::@Cerez I agree, there are probably quite a few "large" article that can have similar done to it (Sasuke, Sakura, Kakashi, Tsunade, Obito etc) --[[User:Speysider|Speysider]] <sup><small>[[User_talk:Speysider|Talk Page]] | [[User:Speysider/Images|My Image Uploads]] | [[User:Speysider/Tabber Code|Tabber Code]] | [http://youtube.com/LPSajuuk Channel]</small></sup> 16:30, October 7, 2013 (UTC)
 
::::::I see. Either way, well done because that just highlighted how stupid long his ability section has become.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 16:38, October 7, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::::I don't think cutting all this will do good for the information. The Taijutsu section has became bare bones, doesn't mention the speed and strength increases he has nor does it mention that he's became faster than A, or even any of his taijutsu feats. I get that you're cutting the fat of the article, but it seems like you're purposely cutting the article to make him look weaker or something.--[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 03:15, October 8, 2013 (UTC)
 
::::::"Strength" really loses its meaning when everything is made to seem like an accomplishment. Does Naruto use taijutsu reasonably often? Sure. Is he competent with it? Yes. Is he Rock Lee? Absolutely not. And yet, to read the previous version, he eats rocks for breakfast because he's just that omigosh strong.
 
::::::My main issue with the previous version of that section was that almost all of the examples came from when Naruto used senjutsu or some percentage of Kurama. Put another way: there was very little of base-Naruto, which that section should ideally focus on.
 
::::::That's not to say that everything that was cut was bad. The current version is pretty general and would benefit from some examples of Naruto's feats (which could also just be put into refs). I emphasize ''some'' examples, because there do not need to be '''literally eleven examples of how fast Naruto is.''' I really can't overstate how ridiculous that is, and in fact want to itemize it:
 
::::::#Naruto is fast because he saved Sakura.
 
::::::#Naruto is fast because he restrained Kakashi.
 
::::::#Naruto is fast because he intercepted Asura Path.
 
::::::#Naruto is fast because he dodged Third Raikage.
 
::::::#Naruto is fast because he was thought to use Body Flicker Technique.
 
::::::#Naruto is fast because he surpassed A.
 
::::::#Naruto is fast because he moved around a map.
 
::::::#Naruto is fast because he "blitzed" Third Raikage.
 
::::::#Naruto is fast because he reacted before Minato.
 
::::::#Naruto is fast because he outmaneuvered Tailed Beast Balls.
 
::::::#Naruto is fast because he something with Wood Dragon.
 
::::::Use the absolute fastest example and no others. '''''~[[User:Snapper2|Snapper]][[User talk:Snapper2|T]][[Special:Contributions/Snapper2|o]]''''' 05:56, October 8, 2013 (UTC)
 
:While trimming could help, it still doesn't change the fact the article is long. It can be solved just by employing the use of the {{Tlx|Main with-include}} template and subpages with LST. --[[User:Speysider|Speysider]] <sup><small>[[User_talk:Speysider|Talk Page]] | [[User:Speysider/Images|My Image Uploads]] | [[User:Speysider/Tabber Code|Tabber Code]] | [http://youtube.com/LPSajuuk Channel]</small></sup> 18:43, October 8, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
I agree with Snapper. If we start listing abilities, not just here, but the whole site around, by the best known example of that particular skill set, instead of listing every single, minute detail, of every single action that these characters make, the articles would shrink by quite a bit, while retaining the importance of the most significant actions. Most of us are pretty conservative when it comes to adding mentions of abilities, but then there are others that think that every sneeze a character makes needs to be added to their Abilities section, and this just isn't so.
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== Naruto and the other Beasts ==
   
Like I said to begin with, the page's length isn't really a concern. The series is almost over, he's the main character, its going to be long. The page still loads in under a minute, sometimes within mere seconds, and my connection is pretty crappy, so I know its okay for those of you with higher internet speeds. There really isn't any true need to split this article up. There just isn't. So, while if we ''have'' to do this, I prefer a combination of trimming the fat (all the extra references/examples where they're not needed) and Speysider's method of things, I really think a simple trimming of unneeded or redundant information is the better solution of it all. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 21:53, October 8, 2013 (UTC)
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I know this is probably going to cause an uproar, but its been bugging me, and I want to get the opinion of others on this. The fact that Naruto has the chakra of all nine tailed beasts inside of him is apparently very significant, both to him, the beasts, the Sage, and apparently now the prophecy concerning him. '''By definition''' he is the Pseudo-Jinchūriki of eight tailed beasts and the full jinchūriki of one, in that, like [[Sora]], from the filler, and the [[Gold and Silver Brothers]] from canon, he has the tailed beasts chakra within him (without having the actual beast), yet can still use that chakra. So far, he has only used their chakra to pull out the beasts from Obito, but the Sage goes as far to say that Naruto has "united the bijū" within himself. Would it, then, be accurate to list him as their pseudo-jinchūriki given the circumstances? I mean, under our definition of a pseudo-jinchūriki, he fits the bill. Thoughts? ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 19:43, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
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:Yeah, I see how that might cause an uproar. He does possess a part of each tailed beasts' chakra. Just taking what you brought up in consideration, I'd be inclined to agree, but that also raises another issue: Naruto has shared Kurama's chakra with the entire Alliance. He may have had to modify it in some way, but he still did. Does that makes the Alliance pseudo-jins as well? Obito managed to rip a bit of Shukaku and Gyūki from Madara, and held it, at least for a short while. Does that make him a pseudo-jin for those two? [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 19:50, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
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::I don't think we should label him as such being that he is a jinchuriki for one them. He is just a jinchuriki of Yin Kurama who also has the chakra of the other 8 beasts inside of him. Listing him as both a jin and a pseudo-jinn is redundant. The "higher" classification should take precedence. Now if Yin Kurama gets removed while the other 8 are still in jim then sure, otherwise we are gonna have to label the shinobi army as being pseudo jinchuriki of kurama as well.[[User:Umishiru|Umishiru]] ([[User talk:Umishiru|talk]]) 19:54, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
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::: @Omni: I don't think so and here's why. When Gyūki and Shukaku appeared in Naruto's mind, they specifically mention Obito ''sealing'' their chakra into Naruto along with Yin-Kurama's. Naruto transferred his chakra, mixed with Kurama's, to everyone in the Alliance, but even if he just transferred Kurama's pure chakra he wasn't ''sealing'' it within them. Furthermore, the beasts appear in his mental landscape and Kurama wasn't able to do that with the Alliance. He had to speak through Naruto if he wanted to talk to Kakashi or Guy, or whoever was present. But with Naruto, the beasts can speak to him mentally, despite the fact that he was still gaining Kurama back at that point (shown by him appearing alongside Shukaku and Gyūki as Obito was sealing them into him), which seems to indicate a deeper connection than just the fact that he has their chakra. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 19:56, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
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::Good points all around. I think the lines between what we would classify as jinchūriki are being broken a bit by this event. Wouldn't we list him a a pseudo jinchriki for the ten tails since they're all in him? Also wouldn't this make Naruto a pseudo jinchūriki instead of a full one? --[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 20:00, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
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::: I thought of that, but when it comes down to it, he's not a pseudo of the Ten-Tails. Because technically all nine beasts are a piece of its chakra so that would make each of the jinchūriki a Ten-Tails pseudo. Not to mention, the Ten-Tails is all nine beasts fused into one, and Naruto clearly still has them separate in his mindscape. Naruto is a full jinchūriki of Kurama's Yin-half. There's no question of that. But he has chakra sealed into him of all the other beasts which would make him their pseudo-jinchūriki. I think this is a first case of there being both in the same host. If I had to vote right now, I'd say list him as both a Jinchūriki (for Kurama) and a Pseudo-Jinchūriki (for the other eight) and then list them in his infobox as well. He can use their chakra, talk to them mentally, and they appear in his mental plane. That to me is enough proof that he can be classified as such. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 20:29, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
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::::This is one of those times where rigidly sticking to definitions would absolutely be counter-productive. Because it would bloat the infobox and dilute all meaning of the word.
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::::Until such time that he is able to transform into the other eight, he should not be considered any percentage of their jinchuriki. '''''~[[User:Snapper2|Snapper]][[User talk:Snapper2|T]][[Special:Contributions/Snapper2|o]]''''' 20:39, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::TTF, I thought about the sealing aspect of it, but if you look at it, Kinkaku and Ginkaku didn't have Kurama's chakra sealed into them either, yet they're considered pseudo-jins. They acquired the chakra by consuming parts of Kurama, not sealing part of Kurama. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 20:42, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Tailed Beast Mode Power ==
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TU3 Opinion
I'd like to include that the manga did show Naruto equaling the combined might of [[Matatabi]], [[Isobu]], [[Kokuo]], [[Saiken]], and [[Chomei]] in the Tailed Beast Ball clash. Something like that couldn't have happened if Naruto was weaker than their combined power. Not only that, he did defeat all five by himself after the clash, pages 12-13 of chapter 572.--[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 01:51, October 9, 2013 (UTC)
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:Naruto could be classified as a peusdo-jinchuriki of all eight of the other tailed beasts. He fits classification of possessing all the tailed beasts chakra within him.
: He had Gyūki/B's help throughout the fight. Equaling them in power, as far as the Tailed Beast Ball goes, does not mean Naruto is stronger than five Tailed Beasts combined. That is overhyping things at its best. And that will be the last I say on the matter. Anyone else is welcome to comment. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 02:26, October 9, 2013 (UTC)
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:Because I noticed it brought up, he only shared Kurama's chakra with the Alliance. Naruto's chakra cloak can run out and it will dissipate from them, they are all not pesudo-jinchuriki, unless they all start sprouting Kurama's at which point we would have to rethink that classification a bit.
:: Gyuki/B helped ''twice'' when Naruto got his own Tailed Beast Mode. And even then, it wasn't needed: Naruto already showed WITHIN the span that B helped that he could have handle himself. And Ten Tailed Fox, you are ignoring that if Naruto had been weaker than the five Tailed Beasts' combined power, his Tailed Beast Ball would have been ''overpowered'' and it both would have been sent flying back to him. And Naruto, as the manga showed, defeated all five at the EXACT. SAME. TIME. In chapter 572 without ANY assistance from B. It isn't overhyping, what you are doing is downplaying a feat.--[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 02:30, October 9, 2013 (UTC)
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:Naruto is nothing of the Ten-Tails because having all nine of the tailed beasts chakra doesn't make him giant tree monster guy. He's a kid with a bunch of demon chakra.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 21:10, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
   
:::I happen to agree with you. It's immense downplaying, to the point of being ignorant or lacking comprehension of what's going on. And if one takes insult to that, I apologize, but it's a blatant lack of care to attention that's causing the issue. Naruto matched the power of the other five Bijuu, context being that he had to neither overpower nor underpower his own. He had to lower his power output. It was a delicate balance, and all dialogue and panels (disregarding the anime for a bit) related show him fighting with relative ease. There's more I could redundantly repeat that I've seen SuperSaiyaMan say regarding the topic spread across the Wikia, but that'd be silly. While I do agree he (SuperSaiyaMan) is hyping it, his stance is valid and points well-founded. I wish this silly argument would end already, though. It's becoming childish with how it's being handled. --[[User:Taynio|Taynio]] ([[User talk:Taynio|talk]]) 02:42, October 9, 2013 (UTC)
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:: @Snapper: But being able to transform does not make one pseudo-jinchūriki. He can manipulate their chakra at will for his own purposes. Their consciousness also dwells in his mindscape, just like a jinchūriki. Distorting the infobox isn't my concern. I, frankly, don't care about "prettiness". We have that segment to denote when someone is a Jinchūriki/pseudo-jinchūriki and which beast they are classified under. It is our own lack of foresight that has caused the semantic problems. After all, it was never stated that a person could ''only'' be the jinchūriki of one beast at a time. Naruto may not have the entirety of the nine beasts inside of him, but he has enough of them inside of him for the Sage to declare that he has "united the Tailed Beasts" inside of him, as well as enough of their chakra for them to possess consciousness inside of him. I stand by what I've said. He is a pseudo-jinchūriki of eight of the nine beasts and a full jinchūriki of one of them. What we do going forward with this information is what we need to decide. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 21:19, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
   
:::: The point that the Tailed Beast Ball overwhelmed the other beasts' has been noted. But that's all that need be done. SuperSaiyaMan doesn't have to write a paragraph glorifying ninja Jesus Naruto (which is how he makes it sound in his edits) because he did so. He did not overwhelm five Tailed Beasts, he equaled their power, grabbed their necks in the confusion following it, and freed them from Obito. Before the Tailed Beast Ball was used, B/Gyūki was assisting him. Regardless of what you think is "childish", which is irrelevant to begin with, we're trying, as you can see in the section above, to cut down on the over hype that some in this community feel they need to add. Naruto's power and prowess in Tailed Beast Mode are noted, to the point of insanity (almost a play-by-play) in his Ability section. Another paragraph glorifying what the manga already makes obvious is overkill, redundant, pointless (especially when you consider his feat with the Beast Ball is already mentioned), and useless. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 02:52, October 9, 2013 (UTC)
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:::Personally, given there are no other active Jinchuuriki presently, wouldn't that make him the acting real one? Considering all the others are dead, except for Gaara who is no longer a Jinchuuriki? Naruto presently houses all 9 separate, while Madara carries all 9 combined. With that being said, I'd vote on waiting until we see what happens with Naruto having all 9 inside of him. We don't know what having them inside means yet. --[[User:Taynio|Taynio]] ([[User talk:Taynio|talk]]) 21:26, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
::::: The arguing is childish, and the way it was being handled. People were almost at eachother's necks, from what I could tell, without either one listening or understanding the other. I have no problem cutting down the hype, but that doesn't lessen any other points being made by people, as it seems as was attempting to be done. As to whether Naruto overwhelmed or not, the manga's dialogue and panels seem to reflect he did, but that's a moot point at this current time. To reiterate: there's no issue trimming, but downplaying the valid points made in debates is an entirely different subject, even when it warps what really happened. It also came across, from each side, as very condescending toward the other; quite demeaning. That is the sole reason I even spoke up, otherwise I tend to stay out of arguments. --[[User:Taynio|Taynio]] ([[User talk:Taynio|talk]]) 03:05, October 9, 2013 (UTC)
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:::: Where in the abilities section was Naruto's Tailed Beast Ball equaled the might of the five others? And as Taynio pointed out, the manga's dialogue and panels reflected he did defeat all five afterwards. And if Naruto could equal the combined power from the five of them, why shouldn't that be the same as being as strong as five of them? To me, it seems like the same thing. And I have no problem with the trimming either, it just the way its been happening has acted like a huge downplay to Naruto from what we saw in the manga.--[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 03:12, October 9, 2013 (UTC)
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:::: I have no problem with waiting. My intention with this was to get the ball rolling on this topic, because it seems to be shaping up to take an important role (given the Sage, the Beasts, and Naruto's own comments on the subject) and we tend to wait until the last moment to tackle subjects like this (Obito anyone?) and then its a massive pain in the ass when we finally ''do'' decide to act. I just want to see where everyone stands on the issue. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 21:30, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::Of course, do not disagree. Though I think some people are assuming a little too much. --[[User:Taynio|Taynio]] ([[User talk:Taynio|talk]]) 23:00, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
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I don't think Naruto should be considered anything of the Ten-Tails as it is. He may have chakra from all the tailed beasts, but he has nothing of the Demonic Statue. If they decide to seal that arm that Kakashi warped earlier, then we might have argument for pseudo. TFF, I'd like a comment from you regarding what I said about having the chakra sealed, and Kingin brothers being pseudos. I wouldn't call Naruto a full jinchūriki of any of the nine, but Kurama. I think that to be a proper jinchūriki, you need to have a significant portion of the tailed beast chakra inside yourself 50%, as seen with half of Kurama, almost like share-holding in companies. If you have more than 50%, no one can have more than you. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 21:39, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
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:By that logic, he still is the Jinchuuriki of every Bijuu. All the other Jinchuuriki are dead. Even Bee had his extracted, iirc. The only people remaining with any Bijuu chakra is Naruto and Madara, with Madara having Juubi, albeit all 9 combined. That leaves Naruto with the rest. Not even Minato has any left. At the present, we don't know what that means for Naruto, but if we're going to try and pinpoint what he is, he is the only person with any amount of separated Bijuu chakra. He has 1-9, no one else aside Madara's Juubi combined, so wouldn't that make him every Jinchuuriki? Otherwise, aside from having Kurama, there are no other present Jinchuuriki from 9-tail Naruto and 10-tail Madara. --[[User:Taynio|Taynio]] ([[User talk:Taynio|talk]]) 23:00, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
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Kinda offtopic, but reading that I have to comment. Guys... for the last time, the Shinju is the Ten-Tails. All 9 Tailed Beast together do not make up the Ten-Tails, only its chakra. With that said, it could imply being a pseudo-jinchuuriki of the Ten-Tails ._.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:43, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
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Taynio, he's not. By that logic, Naruto would have to have half the chakra of a biju to be a jinchuriki. That isn't possible because Madara restored the Ten-Tails and became its host. Madara isn't the jinchuriki of each of the nine biju, he's the jinchuriki of the Ten-Tails. There's a difference, that being the chakra being returned to the Demonic Statue, which then turns to the Shinju, which then is sealed. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 23:22, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
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:What do you think about what I said? Since Naruto has the "Ten-Tails' chakra" (but not the actual body that is Gedo Mazo) doesn't that make him a Ten-Tails' pseudo-jinchuuriki? Listing him as that would greatly solve the infobox clutter problem of having him listed as a pseudo-jinchuurki of 8 other beasts--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:28, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
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::Why would he be a pseudo anything? There are no other Jinchuuriki (except Madara). So save for the combined chakra that is in Madara, all separate Bijuu are in Naruto. The rest are dead. And given Madara is the Jinchuuriki of the 10 tails, that puts him out of the running. Note: I am not actually suggesting it, but it makes more sense than calling him a pseudo. --[[User:Taynio|Taynio]] ([[User talk:Taynio|talk]]) 23:31, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Not really, The Bijuu are in Madara while only parts of their chakras inside of Naruto. Also the 9 Tailed Beasts don't get actually merged with the Gedo Mazo inside to make the Ten-Tails as I had originally thought, they still exist separately. The Gedo Mazo just drains their chakras from them to restore itself--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:34, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
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::::::I find this situation to be a paradox. On one hand, we've been told that each tailed beast is a fragment of the Ten-Tails' chakra, so in theory, Naruto has the chakra, but on the other, not having him listed as a pseudo for the other eight and having his listed as a pseudo for the Shinju seems contradictory to me. Taynio, the problem I see with your argument is that for you, any small amount of tailed beast chakra in a person equals a jinchuriki. If that was the case, the entire Alliance would be Kurama's jinchuriki. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 23:38, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
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@Omni - That's my point. We don't know what it means. Never before has the chakra of each Bijuu existed outside of the Juubi. There hasn't been a 10-tail Jinchuuriki while the others exist in chakra form. And define "bijuu". They speak to NAruto the same way as before. What makes him not a Jinchuuriki? It's just chakra. So far, there seems to not be a difference between how Naruto was before and how it is now. Kurama was simply chakra sealed within Naruto. This time, all 9 are sealed within him. Exactly what kind of difference do you think there is? This isn't what I actually think, but it is something to think about. <- wrote before your recent
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@Omni2- And no, that isn't "for me". That's not what I think. I don't know what to think. And no, that wouldn't make them Junchuuriki as the chakra was being channeled into them. A Jinchuuriki would be someone that houses the chakra of a Bijuu. Did that make Minato a pseudo? Iirc, people said that. But why? Naruto ONLY had half. Minato had the other half. No person had "Kurama". Kurama doesn't exist like that. It's chakra and can be divided. Naruto didn't have his half of Kurama's chakra + Kurama. It was simply Kurama's chakra.
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@Elv - Define "bijuu". The Ten-tails still was revived with Kurama and Gyuuki inside their Jinchuuriki. Obito still became the Juubi Jinchuuriki despite that. So now do we classify Obito as a pseudo? Because technically speaking... He doesn't have the Bijuu Kurama and Gyuuki inside of him... So is it really the 10-tails? Or is it a pseudo-Juubi? That would make Madara the only true Juubi Jinchuuriki. And there is an extremely large potential for the next chapters with Naruto to make him out to be some super Jinchuuriki and fight alongside Sasuke against Madara. --[[User:Taynio|Taynio]] ([[User talk:Taynio|talk]]) 23:48, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
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No offense Taynio, but I think you complicate the whole thing more than it's worth. @Omni, same way it's contradictory for Obito and Madara to be the Ten-Tails' jinchuuriki but not listed as jichuuriki of each of the nine beasts respectively as well.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:53, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
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:No offense taken. I intend for it to sound complicated ''because it is''. I am trying to throw out every argument because only then can you start understanding what it is, when you understand what it is not. In the same token, you can call every Jinchuuriki of a Bijuu a pseudo-Jinchuuriki of the Juubi because all the Bijuu are is separated chakra. Yes, yes, making it complicated, but for a point. We're trying to define things we don't understand. Is Naruto a full Jinchuuriki? A "pseudo" (something that never truly existed outside of a one time translation, as well as filler for the anime)? Naruto didn't eat to have the Bijuu, and they still behave as if they were fully inside him. They talk to him, are feeding him their chakra. You could say a pseudo Jinchuuriki is one that doesn't have the ability to drain a Bijuu's chakra. The only two canon pseudo had the chakra they did and that was it, right? The whole entire thing is complicated, and I don't know why that isn't seen. Did the brothers talk to Kurama? Did he somehow give them extra chakra? '''These are things that need to be thought out before we try and label something before it's explained in the manga.''' Again: we don't know what Naruto is. Pseudo, not pseudo? What makes one a pseudo? We don't know. Just wait till we find out what having the chakra of all 9 inside NAruto means. Hell, he may even use the same Avatar that was seen in Asura because of it. We don't know. --[[User:Taynio|Taynio]] ([[User talk:Taynio|talk]]) 00:01, April 4, 2014 (UTC)
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:: This is what I meant by "uproar". I'll answer Omni since he's the closest to on topic: @Omni: In response to your query about Kinkaku and Ginkaku, technically they don't meet our definition of pseudo-jinchūriki. We derive our definition from the filler arc, in which we were given that name, based on Sora, who, in fact, had Kurama's chakra ''sealed'' inside of him in order to make him one. But I'll answer the hypothetical anyways by basically saying what Ultimate said, because that's the way I see it too. Kinkaku and Ginkaku were special cases too. They ate Kurama's "chakra meat" and gained some of its chakra. The difference is this. If Kinkaku and Ginkaku run out of Kurama's chakra, it doesn't disappear completely. Furthermore, they can transform into the beast. In contrast, as we've seen several times, when the chakra Naruto sent to the Allied Shinobi Forces runs out, it's gone and they cannot use it any longer until Naruto gets it back. Now, lets take that and compare it to Naruto. Naruto has the chakra of all eight beasts and he can use that chakra at will. Even after using their chakra to pull out the beasts themselves from Obito, he didn't run out of their chakra, as their chakra continued to inhabit him after he used it. That puts him in the same category as Kinkaku and Ginkaku, which, canonically makes him a pseudo-jinchūriki. That's how I see it. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 00:52, April 4, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Everything I said was in deterrence of making any assumptions. We don't even have a full outline of what being pseudo means. The Alliance has more of a chance of being pseudo than any other. They used the power of a Bijuu but did not have the power of a bijuu. Anyone who has the power of a Bijuu wouldn't be a pseudo because there's nothing "fake" about it. <- And that isn't even my opinion, but a possible argument. As I said above, I don't have an opinion on this topic because we don't know anything. Naruto could end up being some new type of Jinchuuriki (as in housing 9) and we'd have to kick our ass for even thinking he is a pseudo anything because it challenges what we know. I really do not know why we cannot wait for the lore to be explained before jumping to conclusions. --[[User:Taynio|Taynio]] ([[User talk:Taynio|talk]]) 01:28, April 4, 2014 (UTC)
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:::As far as we know, the tailed beasts just transferred their chakra to Naruto the same way Kurama gave chakra to Kakashi. It's not as though fūinjutsu was used to seal parts of the tailed beasts in Naruto (excluding maybe Shukaku and Gyūki) and he didn't eat any "chakra meat", it's just a regular old chakra transfer. He should logically be able to run out of it, just like Kakashi used up Kurama's chakra.--[[User:BeyondRed|BeyondRed]] ([[User talk:BeyondRed|talk]]) 01:31, April 4, 2014 (UTC)
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Regarding the "why aren't all jinchūriki pseudo Jubi jins" and "why aren't Obito and Madara jins of all nine", you're not taking in consideration one thing: the nine tailed beasts are more than parts of the Ten-Tails. Hagoromo didn't simply just split the chakra into nine parts, he made each of those nine parts an individual. When we see part of most tailed beasts' chakra in Naruto, they appear as the tailed beast they are. Even when the whole tailed beast is sealed in a host, we see that as themselves, not as the Ten-Tails. Obito and Madara didn't seal them individually into themselves, they sealed them as the Ten-Tails, which also includes the Demonic Statue. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 19:58, April 4, 2014 (UTC)
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:I didn't take "anything" into consideration because I didn't earnestly believe what I posted. I, again, was trying to post about how flimsy some of the ways people were describing things was. They want to try and make Naruto a pseudo without understanding what a pseudo truly is (we don't have the 100% outline), or even knowing what exactly Naruto is according to Kish currently. Obito didn't have all of Kurama or Gyuuki, either, when he became a Jinchuuriki. Yet because Naruto ''supposedly'' doesn't have the "heart" of any other bijuu except Kurama, he is what... suddenly a pseudo something? How in the world would he somehow get back the "heart" of Kurama and not the others? There was no special selection by Obito. He grabbed them all and sealed them into Naruto. Kurama was completely taken from Naruto, now it's back, as are the other bijuu. So what, he lost his Jinchuuriki status and got it back just like that? He is a pseudo? How? Why any of it? None of it makes sense. There are so many holes in every idea presented for this section, which is why at every end of every post, I say to wait. We don't know anything. But the one thing I think I feel is right is that Naruto isn't a pseudo in any context. Just like Kurama and the others existed before, they exist in him now. There is no "heart", no special identity. No special item. No special organism. Nothing. Does that make him a laymen's version of Jinchuuriki? Is he something more now that he 9 beasts inside? Exactly in what context are they inside him? Let's wait and find out after the Guy v Madara business ends. --[[User:Taynio|Taynio]] ([[User talk:Taynio|talk]]) 21:24, April 4, 2014 (UTC)
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::The tailed beasts aren't inside of Naruto, only small portions of their chakras...--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:53, April 4, 2014 (UTC)
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::: But that's just the thing. What does having the beast inside you mean? Obito and Madara revived the Juubi just by using chakra. They didn't need Gyuuki or Kurama to do it. Obito became a Jinchuuriki without having Kurama or Gyuuki. So while all that happened, Naruto and Bee still had the bijuu inside of them. Yet we want to sit here and debate over what having them, in any context or capacity, means to Naruto. How do we know it's "just their chakra". They ARE chakra. What is the difference between Naruto having Kurama now and what he had before? Was there some special entity inside? Some special item within him? What? What is the difference between now and then? Kurama is back inside. He can talk to Naruto the same. I am sure Naruto would be able to draw from whatever energy is inside. The only potential difference is the amount of chakra given. But how would that make any difference? At what point does having more of Kurama's chakra mean "Kurama"? They function, seemingly thus far, no different now than they did before with the last generation of Jinchuuriki. so I ask again: What does any of this mean?--[[User:Taynio|Taynio]] ([[User talk:Taynio|talk]]) 00:46, April 5, 2014 (UTC)
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Considering how little we know, I think that for now, we change nothing. Until we see how having a bit of each tailed beasts' chakra does to him, opposed to having a bit of the Ten-Tails inside him, because again, no statue, I say we do nothing. Unless they explain something in clear terms, it's unlikely that the next chapters will clarify much, since he's also receiving something from Hagoromo, so whatever Naruto displays next might not be solely due to the tailed beasts. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 00:56, April 5, 2014 (UTC)
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"FACEPALM" why don't people still get it to this day? Juubi = "Demonic Statue" with its chakra restored, nothing else, the 9 Tailed Beasts do not make up the Juubi, for the very final time, '''the Shinju is the Demonic Statue'''. And you don't get this, the Tailed Beasts aren't "just chakra" they are flesh when not sealed. The difference between a jinchuuriki and a pseudo-jinchuuriki is that the former has the actual living entity inside that can produce more of its own chakra, while the latter just has a specific amount of chakra that may run out eventually--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:04, April 5, 2014 (UTC)
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:So if they do not make up the Juubi, then Kish lied to us by saying it? Both in that they are the separated chakra of it and that they can be combined to make it? As for the rest, I don't see a reason to speak of it. We don't know all the rules for being different yet. Kurama and the others seemingly function exactly the same currently as they did in the past. It's not worth trying to pick to pieces and understand until we understand what Naruto is now. Why can you not understand that? --[[User:Taynio|Taynio]] ([[User talk:Taynio|talk]]) 20:36, April 6, 2014 (UTC)
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::Kishimoto never said that. The 9 Tailed Beasts do not make up the Shinju, the Shinju is "Gedo Mazo" stripped of most of its chakra, which the Tailed Beasts possess. You are confused by the chakras of the Tailed Beasts speaking inside of Naruto. Make no mistake, the actual beasts themselves in body/soul/person are still within the Gedo Mazo which is inside of Madara. --[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 20:55, April 6, 2014 (UTC)
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== Reincarnation question ==
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With him being Ashura's reincarnation, could we also say, in a technical sense, that Hagoromo was his father? This also would apply to the other reincarnations of the 2 brothers. XundoshiMike 16:31, April 6, 2014 (UTC)
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:Na. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 16:33, April 6, 2014 (UTC)
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::They aren't literal reincarnations, only inheritors of chakra. Kishimoto should have chosen a better term...--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 18:57, April 6, 2014 (UTC)
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== Yang Release User - Official? ==
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It fits the description, he's able to restore Guy's life force using SO6P's inherited power.
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[[User:Wisenoob|Wisenoob]] ([[User talk:Wisenoob|talk]]) 07:12, April 9, 2014 (UTC)
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:How does it fit the description? Anyway, that's speculation at the moment.--[[User:JOA20|JOA20]] ([[User talk:JOA20|talk]]) 07:16, April 9, 2014 (UTC)
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::From the article [[Yang Release]]: The Yang Release (陽遁, Yōton; Viz "Light Style") techniques, based on the physical energy that governs vitality, can be used to breathe life into form. [[User:Wisenoob|Wisenoob]] ([[User talk:Wisenoob|talk]]) 07:20, April 9, 2014 (UTC)
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:::For all we know now, Naruto could have just given Guy some chakra. I actually agree with you, but it's better to wait until it's confirmed.--[[User:JOA20|JOA20]] ([[User talk:JOA20|talk]]) 07:28, April 9, 2014 (UTC)
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Just in advance, if it turns out to be yang-release (for real this time) stuff, then we will have or at least we should then list Chiyo's technique as yang release too among other things, looks like same thing to me--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 10:01, April 9, 2014 (UTC)
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:Obviously this will need to wait until specific confirmation, but it seems extremely likely that Naruto was given the power of [[Yang Release]] and Sasuke the power of [[Yin Release]], representing the two halves of Hagoromo's [[Creation of All Things]], which had long ago been depicted as him holding a dark flame (red flame in the anime) in his left hand and a light flame (blue flame in the anime) in his right hand, representing Yin and Yang respectively. That roughly the same imagery has been repeated here with the sun and moon in the palms of their right and left hands is extremely telling. [[User:FF-Suzaku|FF-Suzaku]] ([[User talk:FF-Suzaku|talk]]) 12:50, April 9, 2014 (UTC)
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::Even more so since yang can also refer to the sun while yin to the moon--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:52, April 9, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Still shouldn't go into the article until we're told so. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 14:49, April 9, 2014 (UTC)
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==Lava Release==
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Since I can't edit the infobox, should Lava Release be added since he is using it basically in the same way Roshi did? [[User:Benknightprime|&#34;Demons run when a good man goes to war.&#34;]] ([[User talk:Benknightprime|talk]]) 19:58, April 12, 2014 (UTC)
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:We don't know how Roshi was using it, if he had to ask for the chakra or if he could just do it.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 20:05, April 12, 2014 (UTC)
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:: I don't think that matters. Jinchuriki of Son Goku can use Lava Release. Simple as that.--[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 20:12, April 12, 2014 (UTC)
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::Gaara and Bunpuku gained Shukaku's ability to manipulate sand. Shouldn't that apply to Son jinchuriki's as well they get Lava Release?([[User:Kuroiraikou|Kuroiraikou]] ([[User talk:Kuroiraikou|talk]]) 20:29, April 12, 2014 (UTC))
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::: Gaara also got Shukaku's Wind Release ability too. Its the same exact thing with Son Goku, Naruto, and Roshi now.--[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 20:31, April 12, 2014 (UTC)
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::::Na, Gaara had Wind Release on his own. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 20:32, April 12, 2014 (UTC)
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:::You sure? I didn't think it was his affinity, he was only using it when using Shukaku's power.--[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 20:33, April 12, 2014 (UTC)
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The specific issue on how Naruto should be listed as a Lava Release user is precisely why I brought [[Talk:Son Gokū#Naruto edition|this]] back up. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 20:46, April 12, 2014 (UTC)
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@SSM, For all we know, Roshi might have been using Lava for real, like having to merge two natures, not like Naruto who is gifted the molded chakra. Since Naruto isn't doing the nature transformation himself, he shouldn't have Lava in his infobox, until and if he does.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 20:47, April 12, 2014 (UTC)
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: @Elveonora, I don't think it works that way. Roshi was explicitly said by Kisame to be able to use Lava Release due to having the Four-Tails.--[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 21:09, April 12, 2014 (UTC)
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You all are missing what I say. Roshi could mold Yoton chakra himself because he was Son Goku's jinchuuriki. Naruto may or may not be able to do so too, but he hasn't. What he did on the 3 panels was just add already molded Yoton chakra to his technique--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:25, April 12, 2014 (UTC)
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:@Elveonora, I think Naruto asked Son for help becose Masashi wanted to display origin of Naruto power to readers[[User:Rage gtx|Rage gtx]] ([[User talk:Rage gtx|talk]]) 21:29, April 12, 2014 (UTC)
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"After gaining Son Gokū's and Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki's power, he gained the Lava Release ability as well as Fire Release and Earth Release" Good Good, this place has officially become a fanon website. Everyone feel free to add whatever bullshi* that comes from your arse, since even the sysops do, so why not? Happy fanon-doing!!!
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Seriously, this fallacy has reached grandiose levels. One doesn't and can't just "gain an ability" to use a nature release. Everyone has the capability to use all 5 natures, it only takes the user's knowledge and skill to use them.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:09, April 13, 2014 (UTC)
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:Jinchuriki get the powers of their tailed beast. Roshi has Lava Release because he was Son's jinchuriki.
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:I seriously do not understand why this suddenly doesn't happen because Naruto got it.
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:That being said, this conversation will stay [[Talk:Son_Gokū#Naruto_edition|here]] because this does not need to be argued about in two different locations.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 12:25, April 13, 2014 (UTC)
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::I never said Naruto hasn't gotten it, I said he may or may have not, but is yet to demonstrate and what he did wasn't an actual demonstration but Son Goku's doing and Naruto just using it. No different than Jugo molding Senjutsu chakra and handling it to Sasuke, that doesn't make Sasuke Senjutsu user--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:31, April 13, 2014 (UTC)
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:::And I'm not going to argue that point again, beacuse I already did so in the other, longer discussion, which is where this one will continue. Again, does not need to be in two places at the same time.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 12:41, April 13, 2014 (UTC)
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Why is it that always when naruto develops an ability or does something combat worthy, people still try to find logical reasons why they don't accept or believe it rather than accept the obvious in front of them? Always going on like "lets wait until kishi says so or until we're proven wrong" but eventually the obvious event occurring is plainly seen, smh --[[User:Rayzur|Rayzur]] ([[User talk:Rayzur|talk]]) 18:35, April 15, 2014 (UTC)
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== Permanent Sage Mode? ==
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As of chapter 672 Naruto has the Sage Mode and Nine-Tailed chakra mode merged eyes, but without the pigmentation around his eyes. Despite this, he called his new technique in chapter 673 Sage Art: Lava Release Rasenshuriken... so is it safe to assume he's now in some sort of permanent Sage Mode? Or is it just me over-thinking things? - [[User:Atrix471|Atrix471]] ([[User talk:Atrix471|talk]]) 22:58, April 13, 2014 (UTC)
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:We still don't know. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 23:02, April 13, 2014 (UTC)
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:This is purely speculation on my part, but I kind of think so; mostly because it's supposed to be half of the Sage's power, and far as we see, Six Paths (forgot his name) is not only always in his sage mode, but also always seems to have the truth seeking orbs around him... wait... is Naruto technically a pseudo-jinchuriki of the Ten Tails now too? [[User:Bloodytom|Bloodytom]] ([[User talk:Bloodytom|talk]]) 09:04, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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== Jinchuriki of the other nine beasts ==
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Something I neglected to mention. Considering how all the tailed beast in Naruto are sentient, that would make Naruto the full jinchuriki of each of them, as per our decision when Minato was able to speak with the other half of the Nine-Tails. How that makes sense I don't fully understand yet, but yeah.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 11:28, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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:That's a good point, I assume it's similar to the type of Jinchuriki Naruto has always been. He probably contains just enough of their chakra for them to remain sentient, just like how Yin and Yang Kurama can. Maybe he IS the full Jinchuriki of them, it isn't really clear. [[User:Atrix471|Atrix471]] ([[User talk:Atrix471|talk]]) 11:39, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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::Not really, chakra can come with consciousness. That doesn't mean it's the real tailed beasts--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:43, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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:::But isn't that exactly what one justification was about Kurama? Up until Yin-Kurama actually started talking? Didn't we conclude if the tailed beasts sealed within someone acted like a tailed beast, then that person is a jinchuriki?--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 15:49, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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:::: We did and I'll pose another question. If we don't concede to Naruto being the jinchūriki of all the other beasts, then what of Yin and Yang Kurama? Are they both not just portions of Kurama as a whole? Do we say that because Naruto got some of the chakra of the tailed beasts, he's not their jinchūriki, but he only has ''some'' of Kurama's chakra as well, yet he ''is'' his jinchūriki? Where do we draw the line? We can't have one and not the other. They have consciousness within him, which was the deciding factor with Yin Kurama. In my mind, that makes him a jinchūriki. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 15:54, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::Titans chakra is screwy.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 15:56, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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::::::Titan's chakra? -confused- Anyways. I agree regarding Naruto being a Jinchuuriki for all bijuu, and despite my objective proclamation I make everywhere, I fail to see the logic in Elv's words given what we know. --[[User:Taynio|Taynio]] ([[User talk:Taynio|talk]]) 15:58, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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I think half of Kurama's chakra is a lot more than a little. And I don't think Naruto has the power to turn into each of the beasts. Maybe we should define it by that. [[User:MangekyoSasuke|MangekyoSasuke]] ([[User talk:MangekyoSasuke|talk]]) 16:07, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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: <nowiki>*cue new chakra mode*</nowiki> In all honesty, agreed with Taynio and Ultimate. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 16:09, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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Honestly, this matter does not need much discussion. There are obvious differences between the pseudo-Jinch. and Naruto/Minato's case. Normal Ps-Jinch. cannot manifest the TB within their consciousness. We've never seen them able to. Minato and Naruto, however, have. We've also seen that the sealing of the "physical beast" doesnt really matter, as Minato merely sealed part on Kurama's chakra into himself, and ''still'' became a jinch. In all actuality, it's just that simple.--'''NaviiGator''' <small>''('''A.K.A.'''KotoSenju)''</small><sup><small>[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk Page]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|My Contributions]]</small></sup> 16:19, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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I disagree with you guys. Minato split Kurama into Yin and Yang with Shiki Fujin. But Naruto doesn't have inside of him Yin Shukaku, Yin Matatabi, Yin Son Goku and so on. He isn't their jinchuuriki, Madara is...--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:12, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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:Oh a technical level, is he not. He is the jinchuriki of the Ten-Tails. And per our discussion, what makes Naruto the jinchuriki is not how he got the chakra, its that the chakra was sentient.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 17:15, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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:: No. Madara is the jinchūriki of the Ten-Tails. Naruto is the jinchūriki of nine sentient pieces of the tailed beasts chakra. There is no difference. So you're saying if their chakra was Yin or Yang that would change the whole ballpark? Don't be absurd. They can talk to him, give him their chakra of their own will, and the Sage even says in the last chapter, "You have all the tailed beasts inside of you now." There really is no other way to interpret that unless you really want to stand here before me now and tell me that the ''amount'' of tailed beast chakra they have in them determines whether or not they're a jinchūriki. That just doesn't make any sense no matter which way you slice it. Given what we know about tailed beasts and jinchūriki, this is how it is. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 17:18, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Orochimaru's chakra is sentient too, is he a Tailed Beast and is everyone with a Curse Mark a jinchuuriki of Orochimaru's? We weren't told consciousness mixed up with chakra is an abnormality, ever. Just look at Hagoromo, he is technically dead and yet as alive as it can get outside of spacetime. Jinchuuriki is someone who has the actual Tailed Beast in body inside of them. Naruto only has bits of their chakra. Until we are shown that those pieces of chakra can produce more chakra and aren't gone once Naruto spends them up, they aren't the real Tailed Beasts--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:20, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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:::: Your logic fails. Naruto and Minato have separate halves of Kurama's chakra, not the full beast itself within them. They are still jinchūriki. Orochimaru isn't a bijū so I don't know why he's in this argument to begin with. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 17:22, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::Kurama was split into "yin kurama" and "yang kurama" by Minato's Shiki Fujin. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the other Tailed Beasts weren't split in two with a fuuinjutsu.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:26, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::: That literally makes no sense. At all. The tailed beasts have conscious portions of their chakra within Naruto. Yin Kurama and Yang Kurama are just two ''portions'' of Kurama's chakra. In fact, they aren't even called "Yin and Yang Kurama". Minato and Naruto have always referred to it as "half of Kurama's chakra". We just know, given the context, which halves each possess. Its still only a portion of Kurama's chakra. So, by your logic, they aren't jinchūriki until they have both halves. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 17:32, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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What I'm saying is that Kuramas are an unique case. They are both Kurama, just like both halves of Mu are still each Mu. But a portion of a Tailed Beast's chakra isn't a Tailed Beast in itself. What you imply with that is that there's no such thing such as pseudo-jinchuuriki, and Kinkaku&Ginkaku were Kurama's jinchuuriki instead, if I get it right.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:47, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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: We're getting somewhere here. Firstly, we should know the pseudo-jinchūriki is an anime-only term. That out of the way, Kurama's case is not unique. The Son Gokū Naruto talked to in this chapter is the same Son Gokū that was sealed in Rōshi. It doesn't matter how small or large the chakra, the chakra that is inside of Naruto is just as much Son as is the chakra within the Gedo Mazō within Madara. Its the same case as Yin Kurama and Yang Kurama. They're the same bijū. Same chakra. They were just split up by a fūinjutsu. Kinkaku and Ginkaku are the only unique cases here. They ate Kurama's meat and gained its chakra. Their chakra wasn't sentient. They simply had it become part of them because they ate some of Kurama's chakra meat. By definition (using the anime's Sora as a standard) ''they'' are pseudo-jinchūriki, because, like Sora, their chakra was just that. Chakra. No sentience involved. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 17:52, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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After reading the chapters again, it appears Naruto only had half of Kurama, the "head" of Gyuuki, and the "head" of Shukaku. Those 3 were the original ones to speak to him, too. However, he later speaks to Son Goku and has chakra. During the same chapter (666) when they are sealed within him (And Elv, the manga blatantly states the beasts themselves (a part of them) were actually taken adn sealed - so he is a full Jinchuuriki again (Madara even comments on it)), however, all the names of the bijuu are said, along with a giant pool of them combined together. What this means, I don't know. It feels almost as if Kish himself forgot only 3 were taken because of how Naruto acted with Son Goku. But at least everything is laid out on the table now, and hopefully people can move on and admit mistakes.--[[User:Taynio|Taynio]] ([[User talk:Taynio|talk]]) 17:51, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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: You're forgetting when he got the other beasts chakra back when he, Kakashi, and Guy fought Obito. He got all but two of the chakras then. When Obito sealed the other chakras into him (Gyūki and Shukaku), he got the last two pieces he needed. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 17:54, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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::I did forget about that. I guess that makes a lot of logical sense, given that Obito only grabbed two, which were the only two Naruto didn't have. Wait. Wouldn't Gyuuki had given him chakra back during that time, too? Hm. I mean what you say makes sense, and what happens in in chapter 666. But hm. I need to sit on it longer. Madara also said Obito was weak and only managed to grab two, but I wonder if that was because it was by decision given the two that were missing, which would be the refuting argument. Argh. My head hurts. There are holes =(--[[User:Taynio|Taynio]] ([[User talk:Taynio|talk]]) 18:01, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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I think we should wait and see what his tailed beast mode (the BEAST, not what he's in now) before we make any decision on whether or not he is the jinchuuriki of the other 8. Cause if he can fully transform into the others, then yes. Otherwise no. [[User:MangekyoSasuke|MangekyoSasuke]] ([[User talk:MangekyoSasuke|talk]]) 18:05, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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So if I'm getting it right, the argument of jinchuuriki vs pseudo-jinchuuriki is that the former has chakra with consciousness while the latter doesn't. Well, I disagree with that definition. To me a jinchuuriki is someone who has an entity inside of him which can produce more chakra, while pseudo-jinchuuriki someone who just has the produced chakra (which presumably can run out eventually). Only once and if Naruto transforms into Son Goku etc. Tailed Beast Mode will I admit you are right. He is currently in "Senjutsu 9 Tailed Beasts' Chakras Mode" or what to call that, we will see next chapter what happens.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 18:13, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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:At the very least, Naruto has 50% of Kurama (half Minato had), and part of the actual bodies of Gyuuki and Shukaku (about the head to shoulders, theoretically (based on the panel)). As for the other 6, I don't know what to say, but they did all give power to him, and he can seemingly draw from it and talk to them inside. --[[User:Taynio|Taynio]] ([[User talk:Taynio|talk]]) 18:16, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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::In my honest opinion, the 1-to-8 Tailed Beasts in Naruto are akin to Shadow Clones. They have consciousness, but not a soul or "real" body, they are just conscious chakra. Again, them speaking and all is no evidence that there's now 18 Tailed Beasts.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 18:25, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Elv, honey. As I said, at the very least: Gyuuki and Shukakau ARE, completely, without a doubt, no opinion, no theory, assumption... Anything... Are inside Naruto. Obito grabbed about 1/3 (guess) of their body, akin to 1/2 of Kurama, and sealed them within Naruto. So, again, at the very.... very.. least. 3 bijuu are inside of Naruto, in the very "entity" form you want to throw around. Madara even stated this himself in the very same chapter. That aside, there is no way they'd be akin to shadow clones. I don't know how you come up with that analogy, it's a very poor one. Every piece of chakra is a peice of bijuu. They are made out of chakra. I dont know why you forget this. They were not born, they were made out of the chakra of something else. Yes, they can still be entities,b ut that doesn't negate the fact they're chakra entities. Any part of them stolen in "chakra" form is part of them. I don't even believe in pseudo-Jinchuuriki, on a personal level. IIRc, it was only ever used in the anime. If I am mistaken, then shame on me, but that doesn't negate what I said. --[[User:Taynio|Taynio]] ([[User talk:Taynio|talk]]) 18:32, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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::::Well, I disagree. And I already told you that I'm positive the Tailed Beasts "existence-wise" are no less real than a human is lets say. They aren't just "transformed chakra" they are literal flesh. To me people calling them "chakra monsters" is no different than "natural disasters" or "corrupted priests".
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Basically I was right, you two say that there are 18 Tailed Beasts now and that's far-fetched. I would like Seelentau and Omni's opinions on this, because this is a very important topic for sure.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 18:38, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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:inb4 forgetting about Kurama being split in half to make "10 non-juubi bijuu". It wouldn't make 18. It's still 9. What you're suggesting is far-fetched, Elv. --[[User:Taynio|Taynio]] ([[User talk:Taynio|talk]]) 18:44, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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Chakra is an odd thing especially when it comes oto tailed beast. So I can understand where Elveonora is coming from. The term pseudo-jinchūriki was confirmed with the Gold and Silver Brothers. That being said none of us knows how chakra of tailed beasts operate within a pseudo-jinchūriki works. Yes we saw Obito take Gyūki and Shukaku which would reflect a similar situation with the halves of Kurama, but that does not hold true for the other tailed beasts. We shouldn't rush to force the situation to fit a mould.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 18:38, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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:I do not disagree regarding the other 6. As far as we know right now, Naruto has chakra from 6, and 3 actual parts of bijuu -- 1/3? of Gyuuki and Shukaku, and 1/2 of Kurama (to satisfy Elv). --[[User:Taynio|Taynio]] ([[User talk:Taynio|talk]]) 18:44, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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:: He has them all. Hagoromo, Naruto, and all nine tailed beasts had an active conversation within Naruto. Hagoromo flat out said "You now have all nine tailed beasts inside of you," in the last chapter. It really doesn't get anymore plain than that. If you're waiting for Naruto to turn into all nine tailed beasts for your "confirmation", I'll be back to collect your skeletons in a few decades. You'll still be waiting by then. Our confirmation was Hagoromo saying they're all present inside Naruto and the conscious pieces of chakra ''having a conversation with each other'' as well as being able to ''actively respond both with words and action'' to Naruto's requests. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 19:46, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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:::I do not disagree, but I was simply trying to differentiate exactly how for some people. --[[User:Taynio|Taynio]] ([[User talk:Taynio|talk]]) 20:23, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Except Naruto had chakras of 7 Tailed Beasts before they were even re-sealed into Gedo Mazo. What you say is that they are inside of Naruto and Madara at the same time, therefore 18 Tailed Beasts. Again, conscious chakra isn't confirmation that they are the "actual" Tailed Beasts in "person" (soul and body) Also Naruto handled Kurama's chakra to the whole Alliance, cool, next thing you tell me is that there's tens of thousands of Kuramas or something. Again, I see the TB chakras talking as nothing more than something similar to Shadow Clone phenomenon--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 20:04, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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:::: I don't care how long he's had them. They only became relevant once he got them ''all'' and Kishi started making it a point in the series. And you can think of them however you want to, but they're not Shadow Clones. The tailed beasts are living, breathing, chakra. The fact that Kurama can be split in two and sealed in two different people, retain consciousness, and its other attributes is proof beyond a reasonable doubt that taking and sealing a portion of a tailed beasts' chakra into another person is enough to make them a jinchūriki. One does not need the entire beast. Again. By your logic, Naruto hasn't been a jinchūriki this entire series, and that's a load of crap. You can't say it works for Naruto because Yin and Yang are involved. That's ludicrous. A portion went to Naruto, a portion went to Minato. The same logic applies here. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 20:10, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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I already told you that Yin and Yang Kurama are an unique case. Shinigami split their souls into two, Minato didn't simply take a piece of chakra, hell they are even different colors unlike the chakras of Tailed Beasts inside of Naruto which aren't black last time I checked. Also Naruto's eyes are that of Kurama's (obviously because he has the actual Tailed Beast) and not a merger of all nine's eyes.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 20:18, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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: ...Naruto is the only jinchūriki whose eyes ever changed to begin with. So, no it wouldn't. Also, Chapter 671 spits all over your "unique case" theory. Like. Totally demolishes it. Their souls (like Hashirama's) are inside Naruto attached to their chakra. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 20:30, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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::Minato and Kushina also appeared in Naruto's mind when he had their chakra, yet their souls weren't attached to it, and the real Minato doesn't even seem to remember his chakra's interaction with Naruto. Orochimaru's chakra within Kabuto and the cursed seals also had his consciousness, as he explicitly said, yet there's only one Orochimaru. All chakra contains consciousness (spiritual energy), and the tailed beasts might not even have souls for all we know. There's no way of knowing whether the tailed beasts in Naruto are "real" or not, since there's never been any other case like his. Also, nobody ever said Kinkaku and Ginkaku's Nine-Tails chakra didn't have a consciousness, Naruto's case might be more or less the same as theirs.--[[User:BeyondRed|BeyondRed]] ([[User talk:BeyondRed|talk]]) 23:34, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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::: Again with Minato and Kushina. Again. Not Tailed beasts so they're irrelevant. And again, chapter 671 spits all over that argument. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 00:38, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
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::::Not sure how it's irrelevant though. The argument that Naruto has the actual tailed beasts and not just their chakra is that their consciousness is also inside him, my point was that all transferred chakra has the person's consciousness inside it, human or tailed beast, so that isn't definite proof. He may very well have the actual tailed beasts (as in, they were split into a second beast just like Kurama) but he may also have just chakra, the same way the entire alliance now has Yang-Kurama's chakra, which presumably isn't permanent. It just seems better to be cautious about what Naruto is classified as, since his case is so unique.--[[User:BeyondRed|BeyondRed]] ([[User talk:BeyondRed|talk]]) 01:06, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
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::::: Its irrelevant because in the chapter I just mentioned, Yin Kurama says that Naruto has all the tailed beasts in him and Gyūki says Naruto now has all the tailed beast power that he lacked. Nothing that Elve says can refute that. They're inside of him. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 01:24, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::: Fair enough, the dialogue does imply that, but if that's the case then that means simply being given a tailed beast's chakra makes you a jinchuriki, since that's all Son and the others did, as far as we've been told. What do we do about the alliance then? In particular, Kakashi was handed chakra by Yang-Kurama prior to Naruto handing out a mixture of his Kurama's chakra to everybody else. Unless there's a version of chakra transfer that splits a tailed beast and another version that simply hands out chakra, they would all be jinchuriki, would they not?--[[User:BeyondRed|BeyondRed]] ([[User talk:BeyondRed|talk]]) 01:42, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
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-Resetting indent- @ Beyond: The difference is who contains chakra. Naruto is the house, the vessel. Anyone who has been a Jinchuuriki has housed the bijuu/chakra. Kakashi was just given a chakra boost, like taking a shot of adrenaline. Same for the alliance. The chakra was transferred through them, and I'd consider them pseudo-jinchuuriki over the two Brothers. --[[User:Taynio|Taynio]] ([[User talk:Taynio|talk]]) 01:49, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
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What a lot of you guys aren't realizing is that Naruto only has a portion of Tailed Beasts' 1 - 8 chakra inside of him. While he actually has Yin Kurama inside of him. Yes, it is true that Yin Kurama is incomplete. But he isn't just chakra, he is his own actual physical being. He even looks different from Yang Kurama, unlike the other Tailed Beast, who look the same. So as I was saying, the other Tailed Beast inside of Naruto are just some of their chakra. Having some of a Tailed Beasts' chakra inside of you doesn't automatically make you a Jinchuriki.
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Say what you want to say about Jinchuriki and Pseudo-Jinchuriki, but the different terms actually make sense. A Jinchuriki is a human who has the actual Tailed Beast inside of them, a pseudo-Jinchuriki is a human who only has some of its chakra. Tailed Beast are not just chakra entities, they actually have physical bodies and the ability to bleed and produce other bodily fluids. They even have the ability to run out of chakra for a little bit and then it regenerates later. So I personally don't understand the confusion. Basically what I'm trying to say is, is that Naruto is the Jinchuriki of Yin Kurama and Pseudo-Jinchuriki of the other Tailed Beast. Another thing I would like to mention is that yes it is true that the sage and Yin Kurama said he has all of the Tailed Beast inside of him. But I think you're all taking it too literal, what he obviously meant is that he has all of their chakra. As it is literally impossible for him to be the complete Jinchuriki of all nine Tailed Beast at the same time that Madara is also the Jinchuriki of all nine Tailed Beast. Unless, like Elve said, you're implying there are now 18 Tailed Beast. --[[User:Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4|Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4]] ([[User talk:Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4|talk]]) 02:56, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
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Pseudo-jin might be an anime-originated term, but the thing exists in canon with Kinkaku and Ginkaku. Regarding pseudo or full, I think that the chakra of the beasts having a consciousness in Naruto can be argued for him being considered a full jin, even if the chakra of the others (bar maybe Gyuki and Shukaku) was shared instead of sealed.
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@Legendary Super Saiya-Jin, finally someone who gets it. Also @Foxie, Gaara says hello (about the eyes)--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 10:14, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
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: Gaara's dad had the rings too. Point moot. I don't see how he gets it, either, because he's just rehashing your point, which, for the third time, chapter 671 spat all over. You cannot get around two tailed beasts flat out saying they're inside Naruto. Either of you. Period. Anything else? ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 16:44, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
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Yes they're indeed inside of him, but only their chakra is inside of him. Not their actual bodies, therefore he cannot be considered a full Jinchuriki without their actual bodies. It is literally not possible for Naruto and Madara to both be the complete Jinchuriki of the exact same beast at the same time unless their beings were split in half like Yin and Yang Kurama's body was. But their bodies were not, only some of their chakra was transferred to Naruto. That's all I'm saying to say, which is why I disagree with Naruto being listed as the Jinchuriki of all of them. --[[User:Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4|Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4]] ([[User talk:Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4|talk]]) 21:39, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
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@Foxie, I wasn't talking about the ring. For chapter 671, perhaps you take it just too literary, chakra with consciousness you could say it's "them" but the real them are still inside of Gedo Mazo--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 09:23, April 18, 2014 (UTC)
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== All elements unlocked ==
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Seeing as how Naruto has all power of all the bijū and Hagoromo, doesn't this mean he now also has unlocked all the elements?--[[User:Reliops|Reliops]] ([[User talk:Reliops|talk]]) 14:04, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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:No~ • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 14:14, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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it is speculation. [[User:Munchvtec|Munchvtec]] ([[User talk:Munchvtec|talk]]) 14:16, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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Based in fact. If it is a fact that Hagoromo, who had all elements, passed on his powers to Naruto, then Naruto has those same powers, does he not?--[[User:Reliops|Reliops]] ([[User talk:Reliops|talk]]) 14:22, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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:No. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 14:33, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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:It is supposed belief that Hagoromo had quick, masterful access to all five elements due to Rinnegan. --[[User:Taynio|Taynio]] ([[User talk:Taynio|talk]]) 14:41, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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In theory he has access to four of the basic nature types thanks to the tailed beasts, but until he's actually shown utilising them, or stated to have them, we really can't add them to the article.--[[User:Soul reaper|Soul reaper]] ([[User talk:Soul reaper|talk]]) 14:59, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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:We don't know what the Sage gave Naruto (though it is more likely the access to his style of senjutsu). Hagoromo had access to all the elements because of the Rinnegan, but Naruto did not get that.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 18:19, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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Saiken definitely has water release though, so Naruto should have access to that at least.--[[User:Reliops|Reliops]] ([[User talk:Reliops|talk]]) 21:09, April 18, 2014 (UTC)
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:Still, he has yet to show wheter he can use it.--[[User:JOA20|JOA20]] ([[User talk:JOA20|talk]]) 21:12, April 18, 2014 (UTC)
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== Naruto Kurama info box .. ==
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now that he has the two halve is it still necessary to say Kurama ying and yang half ? even though they are still two different personality aren't both kurama o_O--[[User:Tchad1|Tchad1]] ([[User talk:Tchad1|talk]]) 16:17, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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:He doesn't have both. He had one, lost it and got the other. At no point has he ever had the whole Kurama.--[[User:Soul reaper|Soul reaper]] ([[User talk:Soul reaper|talk]]) 16:23, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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:: That is incorrect. He currently has both residing in him. The chapter even explicitly had Naruto asking "The other half of Kurama is in here too?!". How in the world would Obito grab one half of Kurama, along with 8 other bijuu, and completely miss a half of Kurama? --[[User:Taynio|Taynio]] ([[User talk:Taynio|talk]]) 17:26, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Obito grabbed only a piece of Shukaku and Gyuki's chakras--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:28, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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:::: What Elve said. Naruto had the other Bijū inside him already. Obito grabbed Gyūki and Shukaku. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 17:30, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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::::: From what I understand, all Yin-Kurama did was merge with the little bit of Yang-Kurama's chakra that was already in him. Also chakra is screwy.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 18:03, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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Don't recall there being any bit of Yang Kurama left to be merged with Yin Kurama. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 03:35, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
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== Sensor ==
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If Naruto is able to sense Asura's and is able to keep Guy's chakra from running out, doesn't that make him a sensor.
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[[User:Jtw2014|Jtw2014]] ([[User talk:Jtw2014|talk]]) 21:47, April 16, 2014 (UTC)Jtw2014
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:Technically if he was in his Super Sage Mode, that auto-sensors him. He's not a sensor, but Sage Mode turns it on, so to speak.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 21:48, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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::He is now in permanent Sage Mode, does that make him a full-time sensor?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:00, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Wouldn't say so. If Naruto's current cross-eye mode is permanent, there's no more base Naruto as we know. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 03:35, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
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::::That's the implication ^_--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 10:10, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
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Maybe his new form isn't permanent, it just doesn't have a time limit. Just like how The Rinnegan can be active for however long the person wants it to be, as in Madara's case [[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] ([[User talk:ItachiWasAHero|talk]]) 21:46, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 21:12, April 18, 2014

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possible theories stated as fact Edit

What's this "hiruzen gave naruto his mother's name cos he didn't want enemies knowing the connection between him and minato" ? The only thing minato said was that Hiruzen didn't tell him about his parents. Naruto has been naruto uzumaki since day one because kishimoto started the story with name plus the swirls and spirals associated naruto's name Rayzur (talk) 21:28, March 17, 2014 (UTC)

I don't know, everyone has a different reasoning for this... ask Cerez--Elveonora (talk) 13:59, March 18, 2014 (UTC)

I could swear I remember along those lines being mentioned at some point. Some time, when someone mentions Minato having enemies, perhaps Iwagakure over the many shinobi he killed. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:05, March 18, 2014 (UTC)

I think it was Chakra Minato in naruto's mind?? or Jiraiya and Tsunade before he left to Amegakure?? It was one of those I think. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 01:28, March 20, 2014 (UTC)

Well I checked, it wasn't when Jiraiya was leaving for Amegakure, so it must be either with Chakra Minato or Kushina. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 01:44, March 20, 2014 (UTC)

Page 6 of Chapter 440 brings up that Hiruzen let as little information out as possible, since he'd be in constant danger if people knew who his father was. So while I admit, it wasn't out and out stated "Your name is Uzumaki to avoid the eventuality of my enemies coming to get you", it's much easier to explain away "We used someone from the same clan as Kushina for the host" as opposed to "Oh yeah, Naruto Namikaze, spikey blonde kid, is the host like Minato's old girlfriend, but don't sweat it, totally no relation." --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 02:04, March 20, 2014 (UTC)

VandalizedEdit

To all Wikia members, please be aware that Naruto's page is getting vandalized. Please do everything it takes to stop that vandal. A similar case happened to Konata Izumi's page in Lucky Star Wiki a year ago. Nkqdotaku96 (talk) 06:23, March 30, 2014 (UTC)Nkqdotaku96

Naruto and the other Beasts Edit

I know this is probably going to cause an uproar, but its been bugging me, and I want to get the opinion of others on this. The fact that Naruto has the chakra of all nine tailed beasts inside of him is apparently very significant, both to him, the beasts, the Sage, and apparently now the prophecy concerning him. By definition he is the Pseudo-Jinchūriki of eight tailed beasts and the full jinchūriki of one, in that, like Sora, from the filler, and the Gold and Silver Brothers from canon, he has the tailed beasts chakra within him (without having the actual beast), yet can still use that chakra. So far, he has only used their chakra to pull out the beasts from Obito, but the Sage goes as far to say that Naruto has "united the bijū" within himself. Would it, then, be accurate to list him as their pseudo-jinchūriki given the circumstances? I mean, under our definition of a pseudo-jinchūriki, he fits the bill. Thoughts? ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 19:43, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I see how that might cause an uproar. He does possess a part of each tailed beasts' chakra. Just taking what you brought up in consideration, I'd be inclined to agree, but that also raises another issue: Naruto has shared Kurama's chakra with the entire Alliance. He may have had to modify it in some way, but he still did. Does that makes the Alliance pseudo-jins as well? Obito managed to rip a bit of Shukaku and Gyūki from Madara, and held it, at least for a short while. Does that make him a pseudo-jin for those two? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:50, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
I don't think we should label him as such being that he is a jinchuriki for one them. He is just a jinchuriki of Yin Kurama who also has the chakra of the other 8 beasts inside of him. Listing him as both a jin and a pseudo-jinn is redundant. The "higher" classification should take precedence. Now if Yin Kurama gets removed while the other 8 are still in jim then sure, otherwise we are gonna have to label the shinobi army as being pseudo jinchuriki of kurama as well.Umishiru (talk) 19:54, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
@Omni: I don't think so and here's why. When Gyūki and Shukaku appeared in Naruto's mind, they specifically mention Obito sealing their chakra into Naruto along with Yin-Kurama's. Naruto transferred his chakra, mixed with Kurama's, to everyone in the Alliance, but even if he just transferred Kurama's pure chakra he wasn't sealing it within them. Furthermore, the beasts appear in his mental landscape and Kurama wasn't able to do that with the Alliance. He had to speak through Naruto if he wanted to talk to Kakashi or Guy, or whoever was present. But with Naruto, the beasts can speak to him mentally, despite the fact that he was still gaining Kurama back at that point (shown by him appearing alongside Shukaku and Gyūki as Obito was sealing them into him), which seems to indicate a deeper connection than just the fact that he has their chakra. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 19:56, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
Good points all around. I think the lines between what we would classify as jinchūriki are being broken a bit by this event. Wouldn't we list him a a pseudo jinchriki for the ten tails since they're all in him? Also wouldn't this make Naruto a pseudo jinchūriki instead of a full one? --Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 20:00, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
I thought of that, but when it comes down to it, he's not a pseudo of the Ten-Tails. Because technically all nine beasts are a piece of its chakra so that would make each of the jinchūriki a Ten-Tails pseudo. Not to mention, the Ten-Tails is all nine beasts fused into one, and Naruto clearly still has them separate in his mindscape. Naruto is a full jinchūriki of Kurama's Yin-half. There's no question of that. But he has chakra sealed into him of all the other beasts which would make him their pseudo-jinchūriki. I think this is a first case of there being both in the same host. If I had to vote right now, I'd say list him as both a Jinchūriki (for Kurama) and a Pseudo-Jinchūriki (for the other eight) and then list them in his infobox as well. He can use their chakra, talk to them mentally, and they appear in his mental plane. That to me is enough proof that he can be classified as such. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 20:29, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
This is one of those times where rigidly sticking to definitions would absolutely be counter-productive. Because it would bloat the infobox and dilute all meaning of the word.
Until such time that he is able to transform into the other eight, he should not be considered any percentage of their jinchuriki. ~SnapperTo 20:39, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
TTF, I thought about the sealing aspect of it, but if you look at it, Kinkaku and Ginkaku didn't have Kurama's chakra sealed into them either, yet they're considered pseudo-jins. They acquired the chakra by consuming parts of Kurama, not sealing part of Kurama. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:42, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

TU3 Opinion

Naruto could be classified as a peusdo-jinchuriki of all eight of the other tailed beasts. He fits classification of possessing all the tailed beasts chakra within him.
Because I noticed it brought up, he only shared Kurama's chakra with the Alliance. Naruto's chakra cloak can run out and it will dissipate from them, they are all not pesudo-jinchuriki, unless they all start sprouting Kurama's at which point we would have to rethink that classification a bit.
Naruto is nothing of the Ten-Tails because having all nine of the tailed beasts chakra doesn't make him giant tree monster guy. He's a kid with a bunch of demon chakra.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 21:10, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
@Snapper: But being able to transform does not make one pseudo-jinchūriki. He can manipulate their chakra at will for his own purposes. Their consciousness also dwells in his mindscape, just like a jinchūriki. Distorting the infobox isn't my concern. I, frankly, don't care about "prettiness". We have that segment to denote when someone is a Jinchūriki/pseudo-jinchūriki and which beast they are classified under. It is our own lack of foresight that has caused the semantic problems. After all, it was never stated that a person could only be the jinchūriki of one beast at a time. Naruto may not have the entirety of the nine beasts inside of him, but he has enough of them inside of him for the Sage to declare that he has "united the Tailed Beasts" inside of him, as well as enough of their chakra for them to possess consciousness inside of him. I stand by what I've said. He is a pseudo-jinchūriki of eight of the nine beasts and a full jinchūriki of one of them. What we do going forward with this information is what we need to decide. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 21:19, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
Personally, given there are no other active Jinchuuriki presently, wouldn't that make him the acting real one? Considering all the others are dead, except for Gaara who is no longer a Jinchuuriki? Naruto presently houses all 9 separate, while Madara carries all 9 combined. With that being said, I'd vote on waiting until we see what happens with Naruto having all 9 inside of him. We don't know what having them inside means yet. --Taynio (talk) 21:26, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
I have no problem with waiting. My intention with this was to get the ball rolling on this topic, because it seems to be shaping up to take an important role (given the Sage, the Beasts, and Naruto's own comments on the subject) and we tend to wait until the last moment to tackle subjects like this (Obito anyone?) and then its a massive pain in the ass when we finally do decide to act. I just want to see where everyone stands on the issue. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 21:30, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
Of course, do not disagree. Though I think some people are assuming a little too much. --Taynio (talk) 23:00, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

I don't think Naruto should be considered anything of the Ten-Tails as it is. He may have chakra from all the tailed beasts, but he has nothing of the Demonic Statue. If they decide to seal that arm that Kakashi warped earlier, then we might have argument for pseudo. TFF, I'd like a comment from you regarding what I said about having the chakra sealed, and Kingin brothers being pseudos. I wouldn't call Naruto a full jinchūriki of any of the nine, but Kurama. I think that to be a proper jinchūriki, you need to have a significant portion of the tailed beast chakra inside yourself 50%, as seen with half of Kurama, almost like share-holding in companies. If you have more than 50%, no one can have more than you. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:39, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

By that logic, he still is the Jinchuuriki of every Bijuu. All the other Jinchuuriki are dead. Even Bee had his extracted, iirc. The only people remaining with any Bijuu chakra is Naruto and Madara, with Madara having Juubi, albeit all 9 combined. That leaves Naruto with the rest. Not even Minato has any left. At the present, we don't know what that means for Naruto, but if we're going to try and pinpoint what he is, he is the only person with any amount of separated Bijuu chakra. He has 1-9, no one else aside Madara's Juubi combined, so wouldn't that make him every Jinchuuriki? Otherwise, aside from having Kurama, there are no other present Jinchuuriki from 9-tail Naruto and 10-tail Madara. --Taynio (talk) 23:00, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

Kinda offtopic, but reading that I have to comment. Guys... for the last time, the Shinju is the Ten-Tails. All 9 Tailed Beast together do not make up the Ten-Tails, only its chakra. With that said, it could imply being a pseudo-jinchuuriki of the Ten-Tails ._.--Elveonora (talk) 22:43, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

Taynio, he's not. By that logic, Naruto would have to have half the chakra of a biju to be a jinchuriki. That isn't possible because Madara restored the Ten-Tails and became its host. Madara isn't the jinchuriki of each of the nine biju, he's the jinchuriki of the Ten-Tails. There's a difference, that being the chakra being returned to the Demonic Statue, which then turns to the Shinju, which then is sealed. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:22, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

What do you think about what I said? Since Naruto has the "Ten-Tails' chakra" (but not the actual body that is Gedo Mazo) doesn't that make him a Ten-Tails' pseudo-jinchuuriki? Listing him as that would greatly solve the infobox clutter problem of having him listed as a pseudo-jinchuurki of 8 other beasts--Elveonora (talk) 23:28, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
Why would he be a pseudo anything? There are no other Jinchuuriki (except Madara). So save for the combined chakra that is in Madara, all separate Bijuu are in Naruto. The rest are dead. And given Madara is the Jinchuuriki of the 10 tails, that puts him out of the running. Note: I am not actually suggesting it, but it makes more sense than calling him a pseudo. --Taynio (talk) 23:31, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
Not really, The Bijuu are in Madara while only parts of their chakras inside of Naruto. Also the 9 Tailed Beasts don't get actually merged with the Gedo Mazo inside to make the Ten-Tails as I had originally thought, they still exist separately. The Gedo Mazo just drains their chakras from them to restore itself--Elveonora (talk) 23:34, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
I find this situation to be a paradox. On one hand, we've been told that each tailed beast is a fragment of the Ten-Tails' chakra, so in theory, Naruto has the chakra, but on the other, not having him listed as a pseudo for the other eight and having his listed as a pseudo for the Shinju seems contradictory to me. Taynio, the problem I see with your argument is that for you, any small amount of tailed beast chakra in a person equals a jinchuriki. If that was the case, the entire Alliance would be Kurama's jinchuriki. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:38, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

@Omni - That's my point. We don't know what it means. Never before has the chakra of each Bijuu existed outside of the Juubi. There hasn't been a 10-tail Jinchuuriki while the others exist in chakra form. And define "bijuu". They speak to NAruto the same way as before. What makes him not a Jinchuuriki? It's just chakra. So far, there seems to not be a difference between how Naruto was before and how it is now. Kurama was simply chakra sealed within Naruto. This time, all 9 are sealed within him. Exactly what kind of difference do you think there is? This isn't what I actually think, but it is something to think about. <- wrote before your recent

@Omni2- And no, that isn't "for me". That's not what I think. I don't know what to think. And no, that wouldn't make them Junchuuriki as the chakra was being channeled into them. A Jinchuuriki would be someone that houses the chakra of a Bijuu. Did that make Minato a pseudo? Iirc, people said that. But why? Naruto ONLY had half. Minato had the other half. No person had "Kurama". Kurama doesn't exist like that. It's chakra and can be divided. Naruto didn't have his half of Kurama's chakra + Kurama. It was simply Kurama's chakra.

@Elv - Define "bijuu". The Ten-tails still was revived with Kurama and Gyuuki inside their Jinchuuriki. Obito still became the Juubi Jinchuuriki despite that. So now do we classify Obito as a pseudo? Because technically speaking... He doesn't have the Bijuu Kurama and Gyuuki inside of him... So is it really the 10-tails? Or is it a pseudo-Juubi? That would make Madara the only true Juubi Jinchuuriki. And there is an extremely large potential for the next chapters with Naruto to make him out to be some super Jinchuuriki and fight alongside Sasuke against Madara. --Taynio (talk) 23:48, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

No offense Taynio, but I think you complicate the whole thing more than it's worth. @Omni, same way it's contradictory for Obito and Madara to be the Ten-Tails' jinchuuriki but not listed as jichuuriki of each of the nine beasts respectively as well.--Elveonora (talk) 23:53, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

No offense taken. I intend for it to sound complicated because it is. I am trying to throw out every argument because only then can you start understanding what it is, when you understand what it is not. In the same token, you can call every Jinchuuriki of a Bijuu a pseudo-Jinchuuriki of the Juubi because all the Bijuu are is separated chakra. Yes, yes, making it complicated, but for a point. We're trying to define things we don't understand. Is Naruto a full Jinchuuriki? A "pseudo" (something that never truly existed outside of a one time translation, as well as filler for the anime)? Naruto didn't eat to have the Bijuu, and they still behave as if they were fully inside him. They talk to him, are feeding him their chakra. You could say a pseudo Jinchuuriki is one that doesn't have the ability to drain a Bijuu's chakra. The only two canon pseudo had the chakra they did and that was it, right? The whole entire thing is complicated, and I don't know why that isn't seen. Did the brothers talk to Kurama? Did he somehow give them extra chakra? These are things that need to be thought out before we try and label something before it's explained in the manga. Again: we don't know what Naruto is. Pseudo, not pseudo? What makes one a pseudo? We don't know. Just wait till we find out what having the chakra of all 9 inside NAruto means. Hell, he may even use the same Avatar that was seen in Asura because of it. We don't know. --Taynio (talk) 00:01, April 4, 2014 (UTC)
This is what I meant by "uproar". I'll answer Omni since he's the closest to on topic: @Omni: In response to your query about Kinkaku and Ginkaku, technically they don't meet our definition of pseudo-jinchūriki. We derive our definition from the filler arc, in which we were given that name, based on Sora, who, in fact, had Kurama's chakra sealed inside of him in order to make him one. But I'll answer the hypothetical anyways by basically saying what Ultimate said, because that's the way I see it too. Kinkaku and Ginkaku were special cases too. They ate Kurama's "chakra meat" and gained some of its chakra. The difference is this. If Kinkaku and Ginkaku run out of Kurama's chakra, it doesn't disappear completely. Furthermore, they can transform into the beast. In contrast, as we've seen several times, when the chakra Naruto sent to the Allied Shinobi Forces runs out, it's gone and they cannot use it any longer until Naruto gets it back. Now, lets take that and compare it to Naruto. Naruto has the chakra of all eight beasts and he can use that chakra at will. Even after using their chakra to pull out the beasts themselves from Obito, he didn't run out of their chakra, as their chakra continued to inhabit him after he used it. That puts him in the same category as Kinkaku and Ginkaku, which, canonically makes him a pseudo-jinchūriki. That's how I see it. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 00:52, April 4, 2014 (UTC)
Everything I said was in deterrence of making any assumptions. We don't even have a full outline of what being pseudo means. The Alliance has more of a chance of being pseudo than any other. They used the power of a Bijuu but did not have the power of a bijuu. Anyone who has the power of a Bijuu wouldn't be a pseudo because there's nothing "fake" about it. <- And that isn't even my opinion, but a possible argument. As I said above, I don't have an opinion on this topic because we don't know anything. Naruto could end up being some new type of Jinchuuriki (as in housing 9) and we'd have to kick our ass for even thinking he is a pseudo anything because it challenges what we know. I really do not know why we cannot wait for the lore to be explained before jumping to conclusions. --Taynio (talk) 01:28, April 4, 2014 (UTC)
As far as we know, the tailed beasts just transferred their chakra to Naruto the same way Kurama gave chakra to Kakashi. It's not as though fūinjutsu was used to seal parts of the tailed beasts in Naruto (excluding maybe Shukaku and Gyūki) and he didn't eat any "chakra meat", it's just a regular old chakra transfer. He should logically be able to run out of it, just like Kakashi used up Kurama's chakra.--BeyondRed (talk) 01:31, April 4, 2014 (UTC)

Regarding the "why aren't all jinchūriki pseudo Jubi jins" and "why aren't Obito and Madara jins of all nine", you're not taking in consideration one thing: the nine tailed beasts are more than parts of the Ten-Tails. Hagoromo didn't simply just split the chakra into nine parts, he made each of those nine parts an individual. When we see part of most tailed beasts' chakra in Naruto, they appear as the tailed beast they are. Even when the whole tailed beast is sealed in a host, we see that as themselves, not as the Ten-Tails. Obito and Madara didn't seal them individually into themselves, they sealed them as the Ten-Tails, which also includes the Demonic Statue. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:58, April 4, 2014 (UTC)

I didn't take "anything" into consideration because I didn't earnestly believe what I posted. I, again, was trying to post about how flimsy some of the ways people were describing things was. They want to try and make Naruto a pseudo without understanding what a pseudo truly is (we don't have the 100% outline), or even knowing what exactly Naruto is according to Kish currently. Obito didn't have all of Kurama or Gyuuki, either, when he became a Jinchuuriki. Yet because Naruto supposedly doesn't have the "heart" of any other bijuu except Kurama, he is what... suddenly a pseudo something? How in the world would he somehow get back the "heart" of Kurama and not the others? There was no special selection by Obito. He grabbed them all and sealed them into Naruto. Kurama was completely taken from Naruto, now it's back, as are the other bijuu. So what, he lost his Jinchuuriki status and got it back just like that? He is a pseudo? How? Why any of it? None of it makes sense. There are so many holes in every idea presented for this section, which is why at every end of every post, I say to wait. We don't know anything. But the one thing I think I feel is right is that Naruto isn't a pseudo in any context. Just like Kurama and the others existed before, they exist in him now. There is no "heart", no special identity. No special item. No special organism. Nothing. Does that make him a laymen's version of Jinchuuriki? Is he something more now that he 9 beasts inside? Exactly in what context are they inside him? Let's wait and find out after the Guy v Madara business ends. --Taynio (talk) 21:24, April 4, 2014 (UTC)
The tailed beasts aren't inside of Naruto, only small portions of their chakras...--Elveonora (talk) 23:53, April 4, 2014 (UTC)
But that's just the thing. What does having the beast inside you mean? Obito and Madara revived the Juubi just by using chakra. They didn't need Gyuuki or Kurama to do it. Obito became a Jinchuuriki without having Kurama or Gyuuki. So while all that happened, Naruto and Bee still had the bijuu inside of them. Yet we want to sit here and debate over what having them, in any context or capacity, means to Naruto. How do we know it's "just their chakra". They ARE chakra. What is the difference between Naruto having Kurama now and what he had before? Was there some special entity inside? Some special item within him? What? What is the difference between now and then? Kurama is back inside. He can talk to Naruto the same. I am sure Naruto would be able to draw from whatever energy is inside. The only potential difference is the amount of chakra given. But how would that make any difference? At what point does having more of Kurama's chakra mean "Kurama"? They function, seemingly thus far, no different now than they did before with the last generation of Jinchuuriki. so I ask again: What does any of this mean?--Taynio (talk) 00:46, April 5, 2014 (UTC)

Considering how little we know, I think that for now, we change nothing. Until we see how having a bit of each tailed beasts' chakra does to him, opposed to having a bit of the Ten-Tails inside him, because again, no statue, I say we do nothing. Unless they explain something in clear terms, it's unlikely that the next chapters will clarify much, since he's also receiving something from Hagoromo, so whatever Naruto displays next might not be solely due to the tailed beasts. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:56, April 5, 2014 (UTC)

"FACEPALM" why don't people still get it to this day? Juubi = "Demonic Statue" with its chakra restored, nothing else, the 9 Tailed Beasts do not make up the Juubi, for the very final time, the Shinju is the Demonic Statue. And you don't get this, the Tailed Beasts aren't "just chakra" they are flesh when not sealed. The difference between a jinchuuriki and a pseudo-jinchuuriki is that the former has the actual living entity inside that can produce more of its own chakra, while the latter just has a specific amount of chakra that may run out eventually--Elveonora (talk) 12:04, April 5, 2014 (UTC)


So if they do not make up the Juubi, then Kish lied to us by saying it? Both in that they are the separated chakra of it and that they can be combined to make it? As for the rest, I don't see a reason to speak of it. We don't know all the rules for being different yet. Kurama and the others seemingly function exactly the same currently as they did in the past. It's not worth trying to pick to pieces and understand until we understand what Naruto is now. Why can you not understand that? --Taynio (talk) 20:36, April 6, 2014 (UTC)
Kishimoto never said that. The 9 Tailed Beasts do not make up the Shinju, the Shinju is "Gedo Mazo" stripped of most of its chakra, which the Tailed Beasts possess. You are confused by the chakras of the Tailed Beasts speaking inside of Naruto. Make no mistake, the actual beasts themselves in body/soul/person are still within the Gedo Mazo which is inside of Madara. --Elveonora (talk) 20:55, April 6, 2014 (UTC)

Reincarnation question Edit

With him being Ashura's reincarnation, could we also say, in a technical sense, that Hagoromo was his father? This also would apply to the other reincarnations of the 2 brothers. XundoshiMike 16:31, April 6, 2014 (UTC)

Na. Seelentau 愛 16:33, April 6, 2014 (UTC)
They aren't literal reincarnations, only inheritors of chakra. Kishimoto should have chosen a better term...--Elveonora (talk) 18:57, April 6, 2014 (UTC)

Yang Release User - Official? Edit

It fits the description, he's able to restore Guy's life force using SO6P's inherited power. Wisenoob (talk) 07:12, April 9, 2014 (UTC)

How does it fit the description? Anyway, that's speculation at the moment.--JOA20 (talk) 07:16, April 9, 2014 (UTC)
From the article Yang Release: The Yang Release (陽遁, Yōton; Viz "Light Style") techniques, based on the physical energy that governs vitality, can be used to breathe life into form. Wisenoob (talk) 07:20, April 9, 2014 (UTC)
For all we know now, Naruto could have just given Guy some chakra. I actually agree with you, but it's better to wait until it's confirmed.--JOA20 (talk) 07:28, April 9, 2014 (UTC)

Just in advance, if it turns out to be yang-release (for real this time) stuff, then we will have or at least we should then list Chiyo's technique as yang release too among other things, looks like same thing to me--Elveonora (talk) 10:01, April 9, 2014 (UTC)

Obviously this will need to wait until specific confirmation, but it seems extremely likely that Naruto was given the power of Yang Release and Sasuke the power of Yin Release, representing the two halves of Hagoromo's Creation of All Things, which had long ago been depicted as him holding a dark flame (red flame in the anime) in his left hand and a light flame (blue flame in the anime) in his right hand, representing Yin and Yang respectively. That roughly the same imagery has been repeated here with the sun and moon in the palms of their right and left hands is extremely telling. FF-Suzaku (talk) 12:50, April 9, 2014 (UTC)
Even more so since yang can also refer to the sun while yin to the moon--Elveonora (talk) 12:52, April 9, 2014 (UTC)
Still shouldn't go into the article until we're told so. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 14:49, April 9, 2014 (UTC)

Lava ReleaseEdit

Since I can't edit the infobox, should Lava Release be added since he is using it basically in the same way Roshi did? "Demons run when a good man goes to war." (talk) 19:58, April 12, 2014 (UTC)

We don't know how Roshi was using it, if he had to ask for the chakra or if he could just do it.--Elveonora (talk) 20:05, April 12, 2014 (UTC)
I don't think that matters. Jinchuriki of Son Goku can use Lava Release. Simple as that.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 20:12, April 12, 2014 (UTC)
Gaara and Bunpuku gained Shukaku's ability to manipulate sand. Shouldn't that apply to Son jinchuriki's as well they get Lava Release?(Kuroiraikou (talk) 20:29, April 12, 2014 (UTC))
Gaara also got Shukaku's Wind Release ability too. Its the same exact thing with Son Goku, Naruto, and Roshi now.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 20:31, April 12, 2014 (UTC)
Na, Gaara had Wind Release on his own. Seelentau 愛 20:32, April 12, 2014 (UTC)
You sure? I didn't think it was his affinity, he was only using it when using Shukaku's power.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 20:33, April 12, 2014 (UTC)

The specific issue on how Naruto should be listed as a Lava Release user is precisely why I brought this back up. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:46, April 12, 2014 (UTC)

@SSM, For all we know, Roshi might have been using Lava for real, like having to merge two natures, not like Naruto who is gifted the molded chakra. Since Naruto isn't doing the nature transformation himself, he shouldn't have Lava in his infobox, until and if he does.--Elveonora (talk) 20:47, April 12, 2014 (UTC)

@Elveonora, I don't think it works that way. Roshi was explicitly said by Kisame to be able to use Lava Release due to having the Four-Tails.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 21:09, April 12, 2014 (UTC)

You all are missing what I say. Roshi could mold Yoton chakra himself because he was Son Goku's jinchuuriki. Naruto may or may not be able to do so too, but he hasn't. What he did on the 3 panels was just add already molded Yoton chakra to his technique--Elveonora (talk) 21:25, April 12, 2014 (UTC)

@Elveonora, I think Naruto asked Son for help becose Masashi wanted to display origin of Naruto power to readersRage gtx (talk) 21:29, April 12, 2014 (UTC)

"After gaining Son Gokū's and Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki's power, he gained the Lava Release ability as well as Fire Release and Earth Release" Good Good, this place has officially become a fanon website. Everyone feel free to add whatever bullshi* that comes from your arse, since even the sysops do, so why not? Happy fanon-doing!!!

Seriously, this fallacy has reached grandiose levels. One doesn't and can't just "gain an ability" to use a nature release. Everyone has the capability to use all 5 natures, it only takes the user's knowledge and skill to use them.--Elveonora (talk) 12:09, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

Jinchuriki get the powers of their tailed beast. Roshi has Lava Release because he was Son's jinchuriki.
I seriously do not understand why this suddenly doesn't happen because Naruto got it.
That being said, this conversation will stay here because this does not need to be argued about in two different locations.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 12:25, April 13, 2014 (UTC)
I never said Naruto hasn't gotten it, I said he may or may have not, but is yet to demonstrate and what he did wasn't an actual demonstration but Son Goku's doing and Naruto just using it. No different than Jugo molding Senjutsu chakra and handling it to Sasuke, that doesn't make Sasuke Senjutsu user--Elveonora (talk) 12:31, April 13, 2014 (UTC)
And I'm not going to argue that point again, beacuse I already did so in the other, longer discussion, which is where this one will continue. Again, does not need to be in two places at the same time.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 12:41, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

Why is it that always when naruto develops an ability or does something combat worthy, people still try to find logical reasons why they don't accept or believe it rather than accept the obvious in front of them? Always going on like "lets wait until kishi says so or until we're proven wrong" but eventually the obvious event occurring is plainly seen, smh --Rayzur (talk) 18:35, April 15, 2014 (UTC)

Permanent Sage Mode? Edit

As of chapter 672 Naruto has the Sage Mode and Nine-Tailed chakra mode merged eyes, but without the pigmentation around his eyes. Despite this, he called his new technique in chapter 673 Sage Art: Lava Release Rasenshuriken... so is it safe to assume he's now in some sort of permanent Sage Mode? Or is it just me over-thinking things? - Atrix471 (talk) 22:58, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

We still don't know. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:02, April 13, 2014 (UTC)
This is purely speculation on my part, but I kind of think so; mostly because it's supposed to be half of the Sage's power, and far as we see, Six Paths (forgot his name) is not only always in his sage mode, but also always seems to have the truth seeking orbs around him... wait... is Naruto technically a pseudo-jinchuriki of the Ten Tails now too? Bloodytom (talk) 09:04, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

Jinchuriki of the other nine beasts Edit

Something I neglected to mention. Considering how all the tailed beast in Naruto are sentient, that would make Naruto the full jinchuriki of each of them, as per our decision when Minato was able to speak with the other half of the Nine-Tails. How that makes sense I don't fully understand yet, but yeah.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 11:28, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

That's a good point, I assume it's similar to the type of Jinchuriki Naruto has always been. He probably contains just enough of their chakra for them to remain sentient, just like how Yin and Yang Kurama can. Maybe he IS the full Jinchuriki of them, it isn't really clear. Atrix471 (talk) 11:39, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
Not really, chakra can come with consciousness. That doesn't mean it's the real tailed beasts--Elveonora (talk) 13:43, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
But isn't that exactly what one justification was about Kurama? Up until Yin-Kurama actually started talking? Didn't we conclude if the tailed beasts sealed within someone acted like a tailed beast, then that person is a jinchuriki?--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 15:49, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
We did and I'll pose another question. If we don't concede to Naruto being the jinchūriki of all the other beasts, then what of Yin and Yang Kurama? Are they both not just portions of Kurama as a whole? Do we say that because Naruto got some of the chakra of the tailed beasts, he's not their jinchūriki, but he only has some of Kurama's chakra as well, yet he is his jinchūriki? Where do we draw the line? We can't have one and not the other. They have consciousness within him, which was the deciding factor with Yin Kurama. In my mind, that makes him a jinchūriki. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 15:54, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
Titans chakra is screwy.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 15:56, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
Titan's chakra? -confused- Anyways. I agree regarding Naruto being a Jinchuuriki for all bijuu, and despite my objective proclamation I make everywhere, I fail to see the logic in Elv's words given what we know. --Taynio (talk) 15:58, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

I think half of Kurama's chakra is a lot more than a little. And I don't think Naruto has the power to turn into each of the beasts. Maybe we should define it by that. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 16:07, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

*cue new chakra mode* In all honesty, agreed with Taynio and Ultimate. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 16:09, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

Honestly, this matter does not need much discussion. There are obvious differences between the pseudo-Jinch. and Naruto/Minato's case. Normal Ps-Jinch. cannot manifest the TB within their consciousness. We've never seen them able to. Minato and Naruto, however, have. We've also seen that the sealing of the "physical beast" doesnt really matter, as Minato merely sealed part on Kurama's chakra into himself, and still became a jinch. In all actuality, it's just that simple.--NaviiGator (A.K.A.KotoSenju)Talk Page-My Contributions 16:19, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

I disagree with you guys. Minato split Kurama into Yin and Yang with Shiki Fujin. But Naruto doesn't have inside of him Yin Shukaku, Yin Matatabi, Yin Son Goku and so on. He isn't their jinchuuriki, Madara is...--Elveonora (talk) 17:12, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

Oh a technical level, is he not. He is the jinchuriki of the Ten-Tails. And per our discussion, what makes Naruto the jinchuriki is not how he got the chakra, its that the chakra was sentient.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 17:15, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
No. Madara is the jinchūriki of the Ten-Tails. Naruto is the jinchūriki of nine sentient pieces of the tailed beasts chakra. There is no difference. So you're saying if their chakra was Yin or Yang that would change the whole ballpark? Don't be absurd. They can talk to him, give him their chakra of their own will, and the Sage even says in the last chapter, "You have all the tailed beasts inside of you now." There really is no other way to interpret that unless you really want to stand here before me now and tell me that the amount of tailed beast chakra they have in them determines whether or not they're a jinchūriki. That just doesn't make any sense no matter which way you slice it. Given what we know about tailed beasts and jinchūriki, this is how it is. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 17:18, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
Orochimaru's chakra is sentient too, is he a Tailed Beast and is everyone with a Curse Mark a jinchuuriki of Orochimaru's? We weren't told consciousness mixed up with chakra is an abnormality, ever. Just look at Hagoromo, he is technically dead and yet as alive as it can get outside of spacetime. Jinchuuriki is someone who has the actual Tailed Beast in body inside of them. Naruto only has bits of their chakra. Until we are shown that those pieces of chakra can produce more chakra and aren't gone once Naruto spends them up, they aren't the real Tailed Beasts--Elveonora (talk) 17:20, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
Your logic fails. Naruto and Minato have separate halves of Kurama's chakra, not the full beast itself within them. They are still jinchūriki. Orochimaru isn't a bijū so I don't know why he's in this argument to begin with. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 17:22, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
Kurama was split into "yin kurama" and "yang kurama" by Minato's Shiki Fujin. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the other Tailed Beasts weren't split in two with a fuuinjutsu.--Elveonora (talk) 17:26, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
That literally makes no sense. At all. The tailed beasts have conscious portions of their chakra within Naruto. Yin Kurama and Yang Kurama are just two portions of Kurama's chakra. In fact, they aren't even called "Yin and Yang Kurama". Minato and Naruto have always referred to it as "half of Kurama's chakra". We just know, given the context, which halves each possess. Its still only a portion of Kurama's chakra. So, by your logic, they aren't jinchūriki until they have both halves. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 17:32, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

What I'm saying is that Kuramas are an unique case. They are both Kurama, just like both halves of Mu are still each Mu. But a portion of a Tailed Beast's chakra isn't a Tailed Beast in itself. What you imply with that is that there's no such thing such as pseudo-jinchuuriki, and Kinkaku&Ginkaku were Kurama's jinchuuriki instead, if I get it right.--Elveonora (talk) 17:47, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

We're getting somewhere here. Firstly, we should know the pseudo-jinchūriki is an anime-only term. That out of the way, Kurama's case is not unique. The Son Gokū Naruto talked to in this chapter is the same Son Gokū that was sealed in Rōshi. It doesn't matter how small or large the chakra, the chakra that is inside of Naruto is just as much Son as is the chakra within the Gedo Mazō within Madara. Its the same case as Yin Kurama and Yang Kurama. They're the same bijū. Same chakra. They were just split up by a fūinjutsu. Kinkaku and Ginkaku are the only unique cases here. They ate Kurama's meat and gained its chakra. Their chakra wasn't sentient. They simply had it become part of them because they ate some of Kurama's chakra meat. By definition (using the anime's Sora as a standard) they are pseudo-jinchūriki, because, like Sora, their chakra was just that. Chakra. No sentience involved. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 17:52, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

After reading the chapters again, it appears Naruto only had half of Kurama, the "head" of Gyuuki, and the "head" of Shukaku. Those 3 were the original ones to speak to him, too. However, he later speaks to Son Goku and has chakra. During the same chapter (666) when they are sealed within him (And Elv, the manga blatantly states the beasts themselves (a part of them) were actually taken adn sealed - so he is a full Jinchuuriki again (Madara even comments on it)), however, all the names of the bijuu are said, along with a giant pool of them combined together. What this means, I don't know. It feels almost as if Kish himself forgot only 3 were taken because of how Naruto acted with Son Goku. But at least everything is laid out on the table now, and hopefully people can move on and admit mistakes.--Taynio (talk) 17:51, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

You're forgetting when he got the other beasts chakra back when he, Kakashi, and Guy fought Obito. He got all but two of the chakras then. When Obito sealed the other chakras into him (Gyūki and Shukaku), he got the last two pieces he needed. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 17:54, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
I did forget about that. I guess that makes a lot of logical sense, given that Obito only grabbed two, which were the only two Naruto didn't have. Wait. Wouldn't Gyuuki had given him chakra back during that time, too? Hm. I mean what you say makes sense, and what happens in in chapter 666. But hm. I need to sit on it longer. Madara also said Obito was weak and only managed to grab two, but I wonder if that was because it was by decision given the two that were missing, which would be the refuting argument. Argh. My head hurts. There are holes =(--Taynio (talk) 18:01, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

I think we should wait and see what his tailed beast mode (the BEAST, not what he's in now) before we make any decision on whether or not he is the jinchuuriki of the other 8. Cause if he can fully transform into the others, then yes. Otherwise no. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 18:05, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

So if I'm getting it right, the argument of jinchuuriki vs pseudo-jinchuuriki is that the former has chakra with consciousness while the latter doesn't. Well, I disagree with that definition. To me a jinchuuriki is someone who has an entity inside of him which can produce more chakra, while pseudo-jinchuuriki someone who just has the produced chakra (which presumably can run out eventually). Only once and if Naruto transforms into Son Goku etc. Tailed Beast Mode will I admit you are right. He is currently in "Senjutsu 9 Tailed Beasts' Chakras Mode" or what to call that, we will see next chapter what happens.--Elveonora (talk) 18:13, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

At the very least, Naruto has 50% of Kurama (half Minato had), and part of the actual bodies of Gyuuki and Shukaku (about the head to shoulders, theoretically (based on the panel)). As for the other 6, I don't know what to say, but they did all give power to him, and he can seemingly draw from it and talk to them inside. --Taynio (talk) 18:16, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
In my honest opinion, the 1-to-8 Tailed Beasts in Naruto are akin to Shadow Clones. They have consciousness, but not a soul or "real" body, they are just conscious chakra. Again, them speaking and all is no evidence that there's now 18 Tailed Beasts.--Elveonora (talk) 18:25, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
Elv, honey. As I said, at the very least: Gyuuki and Shukakau ARE, completely, without a doubt, no opinion, no theory, assumption... Anything... Are inside Naruto. Obito grabbed about 1/3 (guess) of their body, akin to 1/2 of Kurama, and sealed them within Naruto. So, again, at the very.... very.. least. 3 bijuu are inside of Naruto, in the very "entity" form you want to throw around. Madara even stated this himself in the very same chapter. That aside, there is no way they'd be akin to shadow clones. I don't know how you come up with that analogy, it's a very poor one. Every piece of chakra is a peice of bijuu. They are made out of chakra. I dont know why you forget this. They were not born, they were made out of the chakra of something else. Yes, they can still be entities,b ut that doesn't negate the fact they're chakra entities. Any part of them stolen in "chakra" form is part of them. I don't even believe in pseudo-Jinchuuriki, on a personal level. IIRc, it was only ever used in the anime. If I am mistaken, then shame on me, but that doesn't negate what I said. --Taynio (talk) 18:32, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
Well, I disagree. And I already told you that I'm positive the Tailed Beasts "existence-wise" are no less real than a human is lets say. They aren't just "transformed chakra" they are literal flesh. To me people calling them "chakra monsters" is no different than "natural disasters" or "corrupted priests".

Basically I was right, you two say that there are 18 Tailed Beasts now and that's far-fetched. I would like Seelentau and Omni's opinions on this, because this is a very important topic for sure.--Elveonora (talk) 18:38, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

inb4 forgetting about Kurama being split in half to make "10 non-juubi bijuu". It wouldn't make 18. It's still 9. What you're suggesting is far-fetched, Elv. --Taynio (talk) 18:44, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

Chakra is an odd thing especially when it comes oto tailed beast. So I can understand where Elveonora is coming from. The term pseudo-jinchūriki was confirmed with the Gold and Silver Brothers. That being said none of us knows how chakra of tailed beasts operate within a pseudo-jinchūriki works. Yes we saw Obito take Gyūki and Shukaku which would reflect a similar situation with the halves of Kurama, but that does not hold true for the other tailed beasts. We shouldn't rush to force the situation to fit a mould.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 18:38, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

I do not disagree regarding the other 6. As far as we know right now, Naruto has chakra from 6, and 3 actual parts of bijuu -- 1/3? of Gyuuki and Shukaku, and 1/2 of Kurama (to satisfy Elv). --Taynio (talk) 18:44, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
He has them all. Hagoromo, Naruto, and all nine tailed beasts had an active conversation within Naruto. Hagoromo flat out said "You now have all nine tailed beasts inside of you," in the last chapter. It really doesn't get anymore plain than that. If you're waiting for Naruto to turn into all nine tailed beasts for your "confirmation", I'll be back to collect your skeletons in a few decades. You'll still be waiting by then. Our confirmation was Hagoromo saying they're all present inside Naruto and the conscious pieces of chakra having a conversation with each other as well as being able to actively respond both with words and action to Naruto's requests. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 19:46, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
I do not disagree, but I was simply trying to differentiate exactly how for some people. --Taynio (talk) 20:23, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
Except Naruto had chakras of 7 Tailed Beasts before they were even re-sealed into Gedo Mazo. What you say is that they are inside of Naruto and Madara at the same time, therefore 18 Tailed Beasts. Again, conscious chakra isn't confirmation that they are the "actual" Tailed Beasts in "person" (soul and body) Also Naruto handled Kurama's chakra to the whole Alliance, cool, next thing you tell me is that there's tens of thousands of Kuramas or something. Again, I see the TB chakras talking as nothing more than something similar to Shadow Clone phenomenon--Elveonora (talk) 20:04, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
I don't care how long he's had them. They only became relevant once he got them all and Kishi started making it a point in the series. And you can think of them however you want to, but they're not Shadow Clones. The tailed beasts are living, breathing, chakra. The fact that Kurama can be split in two and sealed in two different people, retain consciousness, and its other attributes is proof beyond a reasonable doubt that taking and sealing a portion of a tailed beasts' chakra into another person is enough to make them a jinchūriki. One does not need the entire beast. Again. By your logic, Naruto hasn't been a jinchūriki this entire series, and that's a load of crap. You can't say it works for Naruto because Yin and Yang are involved. That's ludicrous. A portion went to Naruto, a portion went to Minato. The same logic applies here. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 20:10, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

I already told you that Yin and Yang Kurama are an unique case. Shinigami split their souls into two, Minato didn't simply take a piece of chakra, hell they are even different colors unlike the chakras of Tailed Beasts inside of Naruto which aren't black last time I checked. Also Naruto's eyes are that of Kurama's (obviously because he has the actual Tailed Beast) and not a merger of all nine's eyes.--Elveonora (talk) 20:18, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

...Naruto is the only jinchūriki whose eyes ever changed to begin with. So, no it wouldn't. Also, Chapter 671 spits all over your "unique case" theory. Like. Totally demolishes it. Their souls (like Hashirama's) are inside Naruto attached to their chakra. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 20:30, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
Minato and Kushina also appeared in Naruto's mind when he had their chakra, yet their souls weren't attached to it, and the real Minato doesn't even seem to remember his chakra's interaction with Naruto. Orochimaru's chakra within Kabuto and the cursed seals also had his consciousness, as he explicitly said, yet there's only one Orochimaru. All chakra contains consciousness (spiritual energy), and the tailed beasts might not even have souls for all we know. There's no way of knowing whether the tailed beasts in Naruto are "real" or not, since there's never been any other case like his. Also, nobody ever said Kinkaku and Ginkaku's Nine-Tails chakra didn't have a consciousness, Naruto's case might be more or less the same as theirs.--BeyondRed (talk) 23:34, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
Again with Minato and Kushina. Again. Not Tailed beasts so they're irrelevant. And again, chapter 671 spits all over that argument. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 00:38, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
Not sure how it's irrelevant though. The argument that Naruto has the actual tailed beasts and not just their chakra is that their consciousness is also inside him, my point was that all transferred chakra has the person's consciousness inside it, human or tailed beast, so that isn't definite proof. He may very well have the actual tailed beasts (as in, they were split into a second beast just like Kurama) but he may also have just chakra, the same way the entire alliance now has Yang-Kurama's chakra, which presumably isn't permanent. It just seems better to be cautious about what Naruto is classified as, since his case is so unique.--BeyondRed (talk) 01:06, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
Its irrelevant because in the chapter I just mentioned, Yin Kurama says that Naruto has all the tailed beasts in him and Gyūki says Naruto now has all the tailed beast power that he lacked. Nothing that Elve says can refute that. They're inside of him. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 01:24, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
Fair enough, the dialogue does imply that, but if that's the case then that means simply being given a tailed beast's chakra makes you a jinchuriki, since that's all Son and the others did, as far as we've been told. What do we do about the alliance then? In particular, Kakashi was handed chakra by Yang-Kurama prior to Naruto handing out a mixture of his Kurama's chakra to everybody else. Unless there's a version of chakra transfer that splits a tailed beast and another version that simply hands out chakra, they would all be jinchuriki, would they not?--BeyondRed (talk) 01:42, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

-Resetting indent- @ Beyond: The difference is who contains chakra. Naruto is the house, the vessel. Anyone who has been a Jinchuuriki has housed the bijuu/chakra. Kakashi was just given a chakra boost, like taking a shot of adrenaline. Same for the alliance. The chakra was transferred through them, and I'd consider them pseudo-jinchuuriki over the two Brothers. --Taynio (talk) 01:49, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

What a lot of you guys aren't realizing is that Naruto only has a portion of Tailed Beasts' 1 - 8 chakra inside of him. While he actually has Yin Kurama inside of him. Yes, it is true that Yin Kurama is incomplete. But he isn't just chakra, he is his own actual physical being. He even looks different from Yang Kurama, unlike the other Tailed Beast, who look the same. So as I was saying, the other Tailed Beast inside of Naruto are just some of their chakra. Having some of a Tailed Beasts' chakra inside of you doesn't automatically make you a Jinchuriki.

Say what you want to say about Jinchuriki and Pseudo-Jinchuriki, but the different terms actually make sense. A Jinchuriki is a human who has the actual Tailed Beast inside of them, a pseudo-Jinchuriki is a human who only has some of its chakra. Tailed Beast are not just chakra entities, they actually have physical bodies and the ability to bleed and produce other bodily fluids. They even have the ability to run out of chakra for a little bit and then it regenerates later. So I personally don't understand the confusion. Basically what I'm trying to say is, is that Naruto is the Jinchuriki of Yin Kurama and Pseudo-Jinchuriki of the other Tailed Beast. Another thing I would like to mention is that yes it is true that the sage and Yin Kurama said he has all of the Tailed Beast inside of him. But I think you're all taking it too literal, what he obviously meant is that he has all of their chakra. As it is literally impossible for him to be the complete Jinchuriki of all nine Tailed Beast at the same time that Madara is also the Jinchuriki of all nine Tailed Beast. Unless, like Elve said, you're implying there are now 18 Tailed Beast. --Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 (talk) 02:56, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

Pseudo-jin might be an anime-originated term, but the thing exists in canon with Kinkaku and Ginkaku. Regarding pseudo or full, I think that the chakra of the beasts having a consciousness in Naruto can be argued for him being considered a full jin, even if the chakra of the others (bar maybe Gyuki and Shukaku) was shared instead of sealed.

@Legendary Super Saiya-Jin, finally someone who gets it. Also @Foxie, Gaara says hello (about the eyes)--Elveonora (talk) 10:14, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

Gaara's dad had the rings too. Point moot. I don't see how he gets it, either, because he's just rehashing your point, which, for the third time, chapter 671 spat all over. You cannot get around two tailed beasts flat out saying they're inside Naruto. Either of you. Period. Anything else? ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 16:44, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

Yes they're indeed inside of him, but only their chakra is inside of him. Not their actual bodies, therefore he cannot be considered a full Jinchuriki without their actual bodies. It is literally not possible for Naruto and Madara to both be the complete Jinchuriki of the exact same beast at the same time unless their beings were split in half like Yin and Yang Kurama's body was. But their bodies were not, only some of their chakra was transferred to Naruto. That's all I'm saying to say, which is why I disagree with Naruto being listed as the Jinchuriki of all of them. --Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 (talk) 21:39, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

@Foxie, I wasn't talking about the ring. For chapter 671, perhaps you take it just too literary, chakra with consciousness you could say it's "them" but the real them are still inside of Gedo Mazo--Elveonora (talk) 09:23, April 18, 2014 (UTC)

All elements unlocked Edit

Seeing as how Naruto has all power of all the bijū and Hagoromo, doesn't this mean he now also has unlocked all the elements?--Reliops (talk) 14:04, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

No~ • Seelentau 愛 14:14, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

it is speculation. Munchvtec (talk) 14:16, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

Based in fact. If it is a fact that Hagoromo, who had all elements, passed on his powers to Naruto, then Naruto has those same powers, does he not?--Reliops (talk) 14:22, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

No. • Seelentau 愛 14:33, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
It is supposed belief that Hagoromo had quick, masterful access to all five elements due to Rinnegan. --Taynio (talk) 14:41, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

In theory he has access to four of the basic nature types thanks to the tailed beasts, but until he's actually shown utilising them, or stated to have them, we really can't add them to the article.--Soul reaper (talk) 14:59, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

We don't know what the Sage gave Naruto (though it is more likely the access to his style of senjutsu). Hagoromo had access to all the elements because of the Rinnegan, but Naruto did not get that.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 18:19, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

Saiken definitely has water release though, so Naruto should have access to that at least.--Reliops (talk) 21:09, April 18, 2014 (UTC)

Still, he has yet to show wheter he can use it.--JOA20 (talk) 21:12, April 18, 2014 (UTC)

Naruto Kurama info box .. Edit

now that he has the two halve is it still necessary to say Kurama ying and yang half ? even though they are still two different personality aren't both kurama o_O--Tchad1 (talk) 16:17, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

He doesn't have both. He had one, lost it and got the other. At no point has he ever had the whole Kurama.--Soul reaper (talk) 16:23, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
That is incorrect. He currently has both residing in him. The chapter even explicitly had Naruto asking "The other half of Kurama is in here too?!". How in the world would Obito grab one half of Kurama, along with 8 other bijuu, and completely miss a half of Kurama? --Taynio (talk) 17:26, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
Obito grabbed only a piece of Shukaku and Gyuki's chakras--Elveonora (talk) 17:28, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
What Elve said. Naruto had the other Bijū inside him already. Obito grabbed Gyūki and Shukaku. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 17:30, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
From what I understand, all Yin-Kurama did was merge with the little bit of Yang-Kurama's chakra that was already in him. Also chakra is screwy.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 18:03, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

Don't recall there being any bit of Yang Kurama left to be merged with Yin Kurama. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 03:35, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

Sensor Edit

If Naruto is able to sense Asura's and is able to keep Guy's chakra from running out, doesn't that make him a sensor. Jtw2014 (talk) 21:47, April 16, 2014 (UTC)Jtw2014

Technically if he was in his Super Sage Mode, that auto-sensors him. He's not a sensor, but Sage Mode turns it on, so to speak.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 21:48, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
He is now in permanent Sage Mode, does that make him a full-time sensor?--Elveonora (talk) 22:00, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
Wouldn't say so. If Naruto's current cross-eye mode is permanent, there's no more base Naruto as we know. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 03:35, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
That's the implication ^_--Elveonora (talk) 10:10, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

Maybe his new form isn't permanent, it just doesn't have a time limit. Just like how The Rinnegan can be active for however long the person wants it to be, as in Madara's case ItachiWasAHero (talk) 21:46, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

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