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== Indra's Mangekyou Sharingan Design ==
== Blindness ==
 
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Where does it show Indra's Mangekyou Sharingan Design? Where it in the manga or anime?
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I dont think he have an actual confirm design.--[[User:Ankhael|Ankhael]] ([[User talk:Ankhael|talk]]) 18:00, June 4, 2016 (UTC)
 
:Yes we have, and you've been a pain the ass about it ever since. Chapter 462, when Tobi is telling the story to Naruto, Yamato, and Kakashi. You can see the spiral, and in the anime, it was coloured red. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 18:08, June 4, 2016 (UTC)
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::Oh ok i know what talking about, but it doesn't say its his mangekyou i dont think.--[[User:Ankhael|Ankhael]] ([[User talk:Ankhael|talk]]) 18:14, June 4, 2016 (UTC)
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:::Which is why there are lengthy explanations to you, in more than one talk page, including your own, whenever you whine about the subject up or try having it removed from any article where that information is relevant. Consider this a warning, next time you mess with this information in any article, I will block you. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 18:49, June 4, 2016 (UTC)
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::::A warning? As a user I have a right to edit pages. I am not doing anything wrong here. There is no clear confirmatory reference to indra's MS design. Perhaps you have a problem with me correcting this article the way it should be written with correct information. I simply asked, "where is it that I can find, clear confirmation of Indra's Mangekyou Sharingan design? You have giving nothing but vague information that doesn't really clearly give confirmation that the spiral image is his mangekyou sharingan. Sure you are entitled to assume that it is. But it doesn't mean that your bias assumptions should go into the article as fact.
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::::Honestly I'm not here to make an argument, I'm just simply here to do the right thing, and to help me do the right thing. I think its best that we should keep his mangekyou sharingan design as unknown until further information is reveal. Perhaps you could edit the article that approaches your interesting assumption as an assumption but not a fact. I think that would be appropriate, wouldn't you agree thats fair?.--[[User:Ankhael|Ankhael]] ([[User talk:Ankhael|talk]]) 05:09, June 5, 2016 (UTC)
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:::::Unless the anime's Kaguya arc or a future filler arc covers Hagoromo's kids, it's highly unlikely that further information will be revealed at this point as to whether Indra's spiral-eye pattern is his Mangekyo Sharingan or not. If it is Indra's Mangekyo Sharingan, Kishimoto probably thought the fans would be able to put two and two together without him having to spell out every minute detail of information, and/or didn't even take into consideration that such a debate would ever take place. [[User:Arawn 999|Arawn 999]] ([[User talk:Arawn 999|talk]]) 05:22, June 5, 2016 (UTC)
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::::::I guess your right Arawn, but still it they shouldn't write it as fact that his mangekyou sharingan looks like that. Sure its a fact he was shown to have those spiral eyes, but that just that he was shown to have them. But we cant just make put our assumptions as fact in the article. Omnibender seems kinda bias, no offense Omnibender, but you don't want to hear me out on this. No one really does. It just make clear sense that the some of the users get to get away with stuff like this. But dont allow others to elaborate on other thing in the articles. Like hagoromo and others. Hagoromo has a Mangekyou Sharingan but no one knows its design, and honestly the same goes for indra's. Its nothing wrong with this wiki, its a great page but the users, are somewhat bias. No offense but im calling it how i see it. --[[User:Ankhael|Ankhael]] ([[User talk:Ankhael|talk]]) 05:45, June 5, 2016 (UTC)
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:::::::To be fair, though, there really isn't anything else the spiral eyes ''can'' be other than his Mangekyo Sharingan, especially given that Indra was shown with a regular Sharingan, he's known to have a Mangekyo Sharingan since he used Susanoo against Asura, and the spiral eyes were coloured red - at least in the anime. As I said, Kishi probably figured readers would be able to deduce that the spiral eyes were Indra's Mangekyo without having to be explicitly told - part of good storytelling is "show, don't tell", after all. [[User:Arawn 999|Arawn 999]] ([[User talk:Arawn 999|talk]]) 06:00, June 5, 2016 (UTC)
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:You have been at this for over two years now, haven't you? I appreciate that you're so persistent, but when you're told multiple times to stop changing this, you have to listen. Of course you have the right to edit pages, but we can revoke this right if you continue to spam the same edit over years. The eyes are indirectly confirmed to be Indra's MS simply through showing them when Tobi talks about the sons inheriting his father's powers. In the same scene, Ashura was shown with the aura to indicate his physical prowess. Plus, they're the only change in his eyes that was ever shown, and he was never said to have another dojutsu, nor is there any indiation that there actually is an entirely new dojutsu we were never told anything about. If you can't put two and two together, it's your problem, but please stop editing this. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 10:03, June 5, 2016 (UTC)
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::Ankhael contributes nothing except an obsession with this topic, as well as calling every single user (and the wiki) "biased" when people don't agree with him on it. Indra has a Mangekyo, end of story and I really hope you get blocked if you bring it up any more times. --'''''[[User:SuperSajuuk|Sa]][[User talk:SuperSajuuk|ju]][[Special:Contributions/SuperSajuuk|uk]]''''' 10:58, June 5, 2016 (UTC)
   
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So I will be blocked because I brought up a minor edit issue for the second time in 2 years. Go right ahead, I'm sure you can block me over something as little as this, that is a big idea to you guys, especially if your threatened to block me, thats fine I'll live. But I will point out that what you guys are doing is not correct editing. This is not just an Indra issue, as you make it.
Actually, there are at least two Mangekyō users who haven't shown signs of deteriorated vision yet, despite the fact they used their Mangekyō techniques a lot: I'm talking about Kakashi Hatake and Obito Uchiha. For the former, it seems he knows about the side-effects of the Mangekyō's power, so he might have blurry vision. But what about Obito? Even though his Space-Time Migration seems to be a Mangekyō technique, Tobi uses it without worry. Maybe we should say it in the Obito Uchiha part.--[[User:JOA20|JOA20]] ([[User talk:JOA20|talk]]) 20:17, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
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'''Just at least hear me out before you block me'''
Hashirama's cells, nuff said.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:48, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
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the scene in the anime does not clearly confirm that what are seeing is Indra's Mangekyo Sharingan Design. Your making Inferences based off what you are seeing. Its nothing wrong with that assumption, in the article, its that we cannot make it a fact. Sure he inherited his father's eye power, but to what extent. Just like you i can put a 2 and 2 together to get a different 4, for along time we thought that the sages eye powers was just rinnegan, but we learn that sharingan was his first unlocked power than mangekyou to Rinnegan. With Indra being the son, his powers could be exactly like his father's, from Sharingan to Rinnegan, Indra and hagoromo is a 1000 years before the rest of the uchiha, and the uchiha over the span of a 1000 years could have lost their natural ability to awaken rinnegan, however just like you that is an assumption I just made. We saw '''variations of rinnegan''', to '''red, purple, with tomoe''', what if thats Indra rinnegan variation, again i am only making an assumption. Based off that scene in the anime and with the fact that Indra is born with his father's eye power, along with the reveal detail on Hagoromo's use of sharingan to rinnegan i can easily assume that maybe Indra possess rinnegan as well. Just like you can assume that its his mangekyou. As well Asura having Hagoromo's body power, asura was able to naturally unlock and use the sage of six paths mode, Indra having Hagoromo's eye power could have been able to naturally unlock rinnegan and over time the power lessen throughout the 2 clans, that makes perfect sense. Just an assumption that can contrast your assumption on it being a Mangekyou. Putting 2 and 2 together you can get another 4, and again i am only assuming here, but it doesn't mean i should make it a fact. That easily just made as much as sense if not more from what we seen so far with the information that have been reveal. --[[User:Ankhael|Ankhael]] ([[User talk:Ankhael|talk]]) 14:01, June 5, 2016 (UTC)
== Awakening Stolen Sharingan ==
 
   
Should Madara's statement about needing two Sharingan to unlock the Mangekyo be listed as trivia? [[User:TricksterKing|TricksterKing]] ([[User talk:TricksterKing|talk]]) 12:50, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
:He said that? Also, Kakashi?--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 13:02, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
::He said it when he told Obito that he would take his Sharingan if he died, [http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/602/17] and [http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/90010563/19], Kakashi seems to be an anomaly for Sharingan related matters.[[User:TricksterKing|TricksterKing]] ([[User talk:TricksterKing|talk]]) 21:53, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
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It could be another variation of a red rinnegan. Or a purple. What other evidence suggests otherwise, this assumption can be easily made just like its being assume that its Mangekyo Sharingan. And for this, thats why I said it isnt a good idea to write it as fact in the article but pre assumed. --[[User:Ankhael|Ankhael]] ([[User talk:Ankhael|talk]]) 14:07, June 5, 2016 (UTC)
He wasn't referring to Mangekyou, but Rinnegan. He gave his eyes to Nagato, so he needed another pair to get a new one--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:29, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
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:Indra having the Rinnegan makes no sence at all, unlike MS. Do you know that Black Zetsu tempted Indra into battling Asura and then spent centuries with making their descendants join forces and awaken the Rinnegan? For BZ, the latter action would've been completely pointless if Indra himself possessed the Rinnegan, and BZ could've easily made Indra summon Gedo Mazo from the Moon and set Eye of the Moon plan into the motion already then. Yet he chose to manipulate his descendants into awakening Rinnegan instead, which means that it's surely not the Rinnegan Indra possessed. And all the Indra's descendants needed Asura's power to attain it, this point stands clear thanks to the BZ tale (besides, Asura possessed the SPSM only because of Hagoromo granting him his power). The pattern doesn't even remind the Rinnegan (it didn't spread throughout the entire eyeball), at the same time it's not a regular Sharingan too. The only known stage between regular Sharingan and Rinnegan is MS - and we know that a) different users have different MS patterns, so Indra's eyes can be a one b) He surely possessed an MS because of his Susanoo use. And since there are no other known doujutsu between Sharingan and Rinnegan, the only one left is MS. It's pure logic, dude. [[User:Ravenlot 27|Ravenlot 27]] ([[User talk:Ravenlot 27|talk]]) 14:24, June 5, 2016 (UTC)
   
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Ok you do have a good point, i guess that settles it.--[[User:Ankhael|Ankhael]] ([[User talk:Ankhael|talk]]) 14:33, June 5, 2016 (UTC)
:Madara said he needs two Sharingan to bring out their true potential, that doesn't necessarily mean MS. Translators got it really mixed up this week because I wouldn't see why else Obito would say "''then together with Kakashi...''" he could get stronger.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 12:42, September 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
::This is the issue with translators, different groups often say different things. In one I read, Obito said "then... it means that together with Kakashi I can become stronger" and in another it said "that means... that means I can become stronger than Kakashi". I wish Shounen was still here.--[[Special:Contributions/210.56.81.64|210.56.81.64]] ([[User talk:210.56.81.64|talk]]) 13:56, September 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
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It was explicitly stated by Hagoromo that he was afraid that Indra would have attempted to steal Asura's power in order to get the Rinnegan, confirming that Indra didn't have the Rinnegan and would have needed Asura's power to get it.--[[User:Elveonora|'''Elve''']] {{Mod}} <sup><small>[[User talk:Elveonora|Talk Page]]|[[Special:Contributions/Elveonora|Contribs]]</small></sup> 16:00, June 5, 2016 (UTC)
== Duplicate Jutsus ==
 
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:Whew, finally. And don't fret, you're not going to get banned for this (at least nor for a long time). Just remember that most of us have been editing wikis for a long time, we know how to handle these things properly. So if you see something like this, you can be sure that we've taken all possibilities into consideration before adding the information. :) • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 16:01, June 5, 2016 (UTC)
   
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== Mangekyou Sharingan Intro ==
Does anyone know a reason why the Wiki hiccuped again and has made two of [[Fire Release: Blast Wave Wild Dance]]?--[[User:Questionaredude|Questionaredude]] ([[User talk:Questionaredude|talk]]) 00:00, September 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
:No idea. All the previous articles that had duplicate entries show up properly now after the update. What's even stranger is that that's only happening in the Kamui article and here. It shows up ok in Obito's infobox and in the chapter infobox. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 00:20, September 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
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In This Line Of Text: "The Mangekyō Sharingan (万華鏡写輪眼, Literally meaning: Kaleidoscope Copy Wheel Eye) is an advanced form of the Sharingan that has only been activated by a handful of Uchiha." I Made An Edit Changing That Last Line Uchiha, Into People, With Each Half Of The Word Linking It To Uchiha And Otsutsuki, Not Just Uchiha. I Did So Because Indra (And In The Anime Hagoromo) Are Not Uchiha, But Otsutsuki. But Jou Seems To Think It Should Remain As Uchiha For Some Unknown Reason, And Keeps Undoing The Edit. [[User:Bob1200|Bob1200]] ([[User talk:Bob1200|talk]]) 00:56, June 11, 2016 (UTC)
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:Mentioning just the Uchiha in that opening isn't wrong, logically speaking. It says only a handful of Uchiha awakened it, framing its rarity only within the Uchiha. An Ōtsutsuki having awakened it isn't excluded by that statement. It's the same logic as answering the question "Is Naruto blue-eyed or brown-eyed?" with "yes". Considering the MS appeared primarily on the Uchiha, with only one natural, non-Uchiha user in canon, not mentioning Ōtsutsuki in the opening makes complete sense. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 01:06, June 11, 2016 (UTC)
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::What If We Make It So It Says "and One Otsutsuki" And Link It To Indra, So The Otsutsuki Aren't Left Out? [[User:Bob1200|Bob1200]] ([[User talk:Bob1200|talk]]) 01:14, June 11, 2016 (UTC)
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:::There're already mentioned in the infobox, that's enough. --[[User:JouXIII|JouXIII]] ([[User talk:JouXIII|talk]]) 11:42, June 11, 2016 (UTC)
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::::Not Really, Because There's Only 2-3 Actual Mentions Of Indra In The Entire Page. [[User:Bob1200|Bob1200]] ([[User talk:Bob1200|talk]]) 18:41, June 11, 2016 (UTC)
 
:::::Considering those cover the entirety of MS related things regarding Indra (had it, could use Susanoo), it is ok. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 18:51, June 11, 2016 (UTC)
   
== Just a thought ==
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== Hagoromo's MS design ==
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Just wondering, who is able to create these neat .svg-file? Just saw there's none for Hagoromo's design yet. :/ [[User:Norleon|Norleon]] ([[User talk:Norleon|talk]]) 05:49, June 17, 2016 (UTC)
It's never revealed how Kakashi awakened his Mangekyo Sharingan, yet Obito most likely awakened his at the news of Rin's death. Could it be possible that the two awakened at the same time, as if they were linked together?[[User:LeeHatake93|LeeHatake93]] ([[User talk:LeeHatake93|talk]]) 20:00, September 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
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:Because it was never shown due to Hagoromo's eyes evolving to Rinnegan at the same time. As for your question, I know of [[User talk:Rafael U. H. S. U.|two]] [[User:Lukas Pessoa Dantas|users]] who can create <code>.svg</code> files.--[[User talk:JOA20|JOA<sup>20</sup>]]06:14, June 17, 2016 (UTC)
:It's possible but I figure we'll see how it happened in the next few chapters.[[User:TricksterKing|TricksterKing]] ([[User talk:TricksterKing|talk]]) 22:37, September 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
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::Thanks for the answer. I thought they labeled the thing on his forehead his MS. oO [[User:Norleon|Norleon]] ([[User talk:Norleon|talk]]) 12:24, June 19, 2016 (UTC)
::Speculation. We'll have to wait and see though from what Madara siad in 602, Obito may have awakened it just before the cave in...--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 11:45, September 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
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==Kakashi Not in Known Wielders Section==
==Eternal's Power==
 
Sorry if I forgot something, or if I'm ignorant (lack of knowledge), but all I know is that with the "Eternal" Mankekyō, the user can't suffer the blindness of its normal power, however is just that the power it grants, or have something more that I don't know? [[User:MaskedManMadara|MaskedManMadara]] ([[User talk:MaskedManMadara|talk]]) 21:45, September 21, 2012 (UTC)
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I don't know if this is a good thing to point out, or is a dumb question but. Why isn't Kakashi not in the Known Wielders? I know he gotten his Sharingan from Obito, then he awaken the Mangekyō Sharingan after killing Rin (Is that her name?). So why wouldn't he be there? ([[User:AtlantisUchiha|AtlantisUchiha]] ([[User talk:AtlantisUchiha|talk]]))
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:All the MSs are listed only for the original owners, because technically it's still ''their'' own power, even if later it was given to someone else. But it doesn't change the fact the MS actually belongs to it's original wielder, not just someone who received his eye. Kakashi's Sharingan originally belonged to Obito, so all his traits and abilities are mentioned in Obito's MS section, as well as the fact that the left eye was in possession of Kakashi for a long time. [[User:Ravenlot 27|Ravenlot 27]] ([[User talk:Ravenlot 27|talk]]) 10:14, June 19, 2016 (UTC)
   
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== Jinraiden trivia citation ==
There's also a new power, but unknown... presumably Rinnegan--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:33, September 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
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One trivia there was about how someone experiences eye irritation before their Mangekyo activates. I think it's from Jinraiden chapter 3 so I added that as the citation. Something about the trivia wording seems a little off, but I don't know how to fix it, exactly. I'll just put a part of the fan translation (by kiyoitsukikage of Tumblr) here so people can decide what to do with it.
ok, thank you again :) [[User:MaskedManMadara|MaskedManMadara]] ([[User talk:MaskedManMadara|talk]]) 15:52, September 22, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
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(Jinraiden is in Sasuke's POV)
== Unlock MS without gaining the third tomoe? ==
 
   
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''I tried to kneel down, but I suddenly felt my eyes throbbing. Within a few moments, a sharp pain spread from my eye sockets, causing my eyeballs to tremble.''
In the latest chapter, Madara hints that Obito used his MS despite Obito only having two tomoe's. Should we add that to trivia? [[Special:Contributions/173.63.93.233|173.63.93.233]] ([[User talk:173.63.93.233|talk]]) 20:36, September 23, 2012 (UTC)BobBob
 
   
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''What the hell was happening?
* We don't know, or do we? ... is there a manga/databook page stating that a fully matured Sharingan is a requirement in order to progress further?
 
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''
* But Obito didn't have MS back then, emotion of great loss is required, or nope?
 
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''I raised both my hands to cover my eyes, which were throbbing violently by then. My field of vision distorted and I instinctively grabbed the tombstone not to fall.''
--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:07, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
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''The intensity of the vibrations did nothing but increase: it was just as if my eyes were trying to tell me something.
Wow, I never noticed he still had two tomoe. I don't think you can just skip the natural progression like that though, and what Madara said isn't definite. That kinda shoots down the whole "he used MS to escape the rubble thing" in my head. Any way, we can always wait and see no? The story is unfolding either way.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 00:03, September 24, 2012 (UTC)
 
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''
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''The Mangekyo Sharingan activates itself with the killing of a loved one.
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''
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''I did a mind calculation: twenty-two days had passed since Itachi's death.
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''
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''That pain was due to the activation of the Mangekyo Sharingan in my eyes.''
   
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''The death of a loved one.''
Answered in Chapter 606, Page 2. Obito (and Kakashi) didn't skip getting the 3rd tomoe. They got it first, and only then did their Sharingans evolve to Mangekyou, albeit in a matter of seconds. --[[User:lnite|lnite]]
 
   
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''And yet I hated him with all my heart until a moment before he had died.''
I read a better translation and it read that he somehow slipped from under the rock as it was caving in, as in while it was still falling in he must of rolled over or moved himself just out of the way, he wasn't hinting at kamui or anything... [[Special:Contributions/173.66.119.89|173.66.119.89]] ([[User talk:173.66.119.89|talk]]) 06:18, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
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''At that moment, under the pouring rain, I was even happy for Itachi's death.''
== Pair of Eyes' Connection ==
 
   
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''If what Madara had asserted was true, Itachi had given me the Mangekyo Sharingan by letting me defeat him.''
In the latest chapter, Obito was able to remote see what his other eye, which Kakashi had, seen. Was it added into the page yet? --[[User:VolteMetalic|VolteMetalic]] ([[User talk:VolteMetalic|talk]]) 10:23, October 9, 2012 (UTC)
 
:[[Sharingan#Receiving the Sharingan]].--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 10:34, October 9, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
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''The death of a loved one, of someone I loved.''
== Question? ==
 
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''
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Itachi had been able to see what was invisible to my eyes, blinded by hatred. That's why I was chosen by the Mangekyo Sharingan.
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''
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''What should I have done? Was he asking me to become the Leaf's defender? Was this what he wished for from the bottom of his heart?''
   
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''However, if I hadn't managed to understand what was concealed deep within my heart, probably he wasn't able to read his heart either.''
Should it be noted that [[Tobi]] and [[Kakashi Hatake]] are the youngest people to unlock the Mongekyō Sharingan? Or are they not? [[User:Zelwolf|Zelwolf]] ([[User talk:Zelwolf|talk]]) 20:16, October 10, 2012 (UTC)Zelwolf
 
   
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''Was he really okay with something like that? We had to protect the Leaf even at the cost of sacrificing our clan?
They are, but that's less than trivial I guess.
 
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''
EDIT: there might have been younger before them, so...--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 20:21, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
 
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''I didn't want this. Not such an ending.''
   
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''The thing I wanted...''
Oh, okay. I mean it's not like a really needed to know thing for the story line [[User:Zelwolf|Zelwolf]] ([[User talk:Zelwolf|talk]]) 20:22, October 10, 2012 (UTC)Zelwolf
 
   
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''The black flames were swallowing my heart.''
Itachi was 12 when he awakened his Mangekyo Sharingan, making him the youngest known BUT Kakashi was either 9 or 11 when he awakened his. Obito awakened his at 13 and then Sasuke awakened his at 16. [[Special:Contributions/173.66.119.89|173.66.119.89]] ([[User talk:173.66.119.89|talk]]) 06:15, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
 
[[User:Pixerella|Pixerella]] ([[User talk:Pixerella|talk]]) 14:49, December 21, 2016 (UTC)
== Obito's MS usage without strain ==
 
   
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== Eternal Mangekyo or Choku Tomoe Sharingan ==
Obito suffers no strain refrainlessly using MS due to Hashirama's DNA implanted on him. This is no speculation and I am not forum-ing. Isn't it true that Hashirama's DNA boosts/longevizes the Sharingan power? It's true for Danzo and Obito using Inazagi and also for the resurrected Madara. Isn't it now a fact that Obito has his DNA? Isn't Obito the only one we've seen using the MS so extensively without apparent side effects? Just making a logical deduction here. I believe we will see this more formally explained in the series pretty soon, as only recently Kakashi was revealed to suffer Sharingan strain for extended usage of MS and soon after that Obito was revealed to carry Hashirama's DNA.--[[User:Holyn|Holyn]] ([[User talk:Holyn|talk]]) 17:14, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
:And when it is announced formally, it will be reflected on the wikia, not before.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 17:16, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
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Hello there, long time no see.
Obito can use his MS without strain because he has Senju DNA within him. Same as how Danzo was able to use Shisui's Kotoamatsukami in somewhat of a succession, whereas Itachi could only activate it after another decade.{{unsigned|75.172.133.219}}
 
:And when it is announced formally, it will be reflected on the wikia, not before.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 11:29, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
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So as i have been rewatching old Naruto episodes near the end of the saga in the fight between Naruto and Sasuke against Madara, the latter makes some interesting remarks about the Choku Tomoe or "Straight Swirl" Sharingan that both he and Sasuke have. The first time he made such a remark was in a small scuflle between him and Sasuke, where he noted that the "Straight Swirl" Sharingan granted the user more fluid movements, which to me sounds like a funny way to say thar ir enhances the "Eye of Insight" part of the Sharingan. Now while this is nice in itself, i find it odd that Madara focuses on that aspect of both his and Sasuke's eyes over all the plethora of powers a "Eternal" Mangekyo brings to the table.
==Special Ninjutsu==
 
It is observed whoever awakens the Mangekyo Sharingan sometimes receive a special exclusive jutsu as seen with Obito's(Kamui) and Shisui's(Kotamatsukami) case. [[Special:Contributions/180.194.241.57|180.194.241.57]] ([[User talk:180.194.241.57|talk]]) 03:09, October 28, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
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Now the thing that bugs me here is: in the series, especially when done by other Uchihas, when enemies are analyzing/praising Sasuke's abilities, they generally focus on his analytical capabilities, battle experience, movement speed and above all the grade of his Dojutsu at the time of each fight. (i.e "he's fast, he has good instincts and analytical skills and has a X-type Sharingan). So first you have the small fight between Uchihas, then you have Madara fighting Naruto and Sasuke after both had aquired the powers of the Six Paths, where Madara muses if both had a connection beyond blood and latter again, when musing about wether or not he would have made a better frontman for him than Obito was. In all 3 occassions what he focuses is in the "Choku Tomoe" Sharingan above all else.
==Non-original eyes==
 
Can someone use their mangekyou without their original eyes (sharingan)? And if them implanted two different eyes (sharingan) with the ability of mangekyou, they will have the to differents? please, I know that this is not forum and don't interpret as speculation without answer my question first. [[User:MaskedManMadara|MaskedManMadara]] ([[User talk:MaskedManMadara|talk]]) 15:07, November 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
:Your question would be better posed [http://naruto.answers.wikia.com here].--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 15:22, November 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
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Given this, wouldn't it be more accurate for Madara to note Sasuke's "Eternal Mangekyo" Sharingan since they were the only two who acquired it and by definition that is the highest grade of the Uchiha dojutsu? (Rinnegan shennigans not withstanding). With this in mind isn't it possible that the official name the "Eternal" Mangekyo is actually the "Straight Swirl" Sharingan?
== Tailed Beast Control ==
 
   
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Thoughts? [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 20:29, May 19, 2017 (UTC)
The Mangekyō Sharingan is hot specifically needed to control the tailed beasts, it merely enhances the user's dōjutsu power. Sasuke himself was able to control Kurama in Naruto to an extent, suppressing its chakra, with only his standard Sharingan. Furthermore, Obito told Sasuke that all Uchiha can potentially control the tailed beasts, but mentioned nothing about the Mangekyō Sharingan. Control for the tailed beasts should be removed from the Mangekyō Sharingan page and moved to the Sharingan page. Steveo920, December 17,2012, 21:55
 
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:He simply speaks about the form of the Mangekyo Sharingan's tomoe. The eternal Mangekyo Sharingan is still a Mangekyo Sharingan, not a third evolution or anything. There's no "'''E'''ternal Mangekyo Sharingan", only "(eternal) Mangekyo Sharingan". • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 20:52, May 19, 2017 (UTC)
:Still doesn't change the fact that it '''can''' be used for controlling it.— {{User:UltimateSupreme/SigCode|03:27 UTC|Tuesday|18 December 2012}}
 
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:: Yeah but the thing is the occasion where he mentions this. The first makes sense since he was in a hand-to-hand fight against Sasuke. But when he's thinking about his blood connection to the younger Uchiha or more importantly when measuring him up to Obito and saying he would have liked to have Sasuke instead of Obito, why would he focus on such a minor trait of the Sharingan, compared to all the other, much bigger powers that it gives? [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 20:57, May 19, 2017 (UTC)
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:::Because Kishimoto sucks at storytelling. He made something previously non-existant significant all of a sudden, without explaining it in more detail. This means that everything besides of Madara's words is pure speculation. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 21:00, May 19, 2017 (UTC)
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::::True his storytelling is flawed, but i don't think you can chalk it up to a author's flaw and ignore since this ie meantion 3 times. Once maybe a mistake, twice is happenstance but three times is a pattern. Now if i remember correctly when Itachi first made the ramark that he wanted Sasuke's eyes way back when and told Madara's story, he said that Madara took Izuna's eyes for himself and from there a new eye was born. And there's also the fact that this hightened Mangekyo never had a "official" name despite the fact that it's of a different pattern and of superior power and it was Itachi's description that served as one,
   
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::::Aside from this, while he notes that he and Sasuke were the only 2 who had the same type of eyes, there's also the fact that Madara never refered to his eyes or Sasuke's own with the term Mangekyo at anytime. The "straight pattern" is tied to the Mangekyo, not the regular Sharingan since all normal Sharingan's are exactly the same, yet Madara never reffered to it as a Mangekyo with a straight pattern, it was the "Straight Swirl" Sharingan. In other words i think that it was "us" (the community) that coined the term of Eternal and didn't realize when Kishi actually dropped the name of the thing. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 21:32, May 19, 2017 (UTC)
== A MS User.. ==
 
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:::::I think you're misunderstanding. The pure fact that he introduced it, gave it some kind of ambiguous meaning and then refused to explain it in more detail was a mistake.
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:::::This "hightened Mangekyo" does not exist, that's why it does not have a different name from the normal Mangekyo Sharingan.
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:::::We did not coin anything, the eternal Mangekyo Sharingan was actually described as that. In the same way, Madara called his and Sasuke's eternal MS a "straight-tomoe Sharingan". Maybe he did so because he didn't know the term "Mangekyo Sharingan", who knows? That's where we get back to my first point: Kishimoto introduced some obscure thing without further explanation, which was stupid. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 21:47, May 19, 2017 (UTC)
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::::::I don't see anything ambiguous to it. He reffered to that type of Sharingan as only being woken by him and Sasuke. Guess what do both have in common? Both took their siblings eyes.
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::::::So a procedure that gives your dojutsu superior strength to it's techniques, better perception and a altered scelera isn't considered to be a "hightened" version of the same. Riiiiight.
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::::::It was a description, but not a ''title'', that's the issue here. We took a description and turned it into a title. And sure, the dude that was one of the forefathers of the clan and knew every nook and cranny of the clan and it's Bloodline Limit, doesn't know the name of one of it's forms, yet guys from his time, that were outside the clan like Tobirama and Onoki managed to know that term. As for explanation it was already there, by Madara's own words: a type of Sharingan that only he had, up until Sasuke also gained it and that made him think twice about having picked Obito as a executor to his will, despite the fact that Obito proved himself as a late blooming genius and developed a level of power that nearly rivaled Madara's own. Do you think such a description fits such a minor trait as what is noted currently? [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 22:43, May 19, 2017 (UTC)
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:We did not do that. And I really don't want to bother with something that won't be resolved anyway. We're not going to add anything more to the article than what the manga presented and most of all we're not going to pretend the real name of the eternal MS was "Straight Swirl Sharingan" or whatever, because that was never stated. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 22:48, May 19, 2017 (UTC)
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::OrganicDinosaurs translation makes it clear they are talking about the eternal mangekyo when they say Choku Tomoe. Madara said that the CHOKU tomoe variant grants more fluidity of movement in battle. That line itself hints there was at least 1 or 2 other EMS users, either that or Choku does indeed refer to the regular MS and then that would make no sense in Madara's case as he does not have any straight design in his MS eyes. So what does it mean in your opinion Seel? I know you translated that before too right?? [[User:QuakingStar|QuakingStar]] ([[User talk:QuakingStar|talk]]) 22:51, May 19, 2017 (UTC)
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:::Madara words it the same as Itachi when he called Madara's MS "eternal", with a ''no''. That is never done when actually naming something.
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:::What's more, he actually says in chapter 657 "I can feel it... that Mangekyo has...... straight tomoe". He doesn't use the word "form" or anything, he's just saying that Sasuke's Mangekyo has straight tomoe. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 23:12, May 19, 2017 (UTC)
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::::Wait.. so that means the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan doesn't actually exist term wise and name wise?? It's simply Mangekyo Sharingan but with eternal eyesight and less tech strain. and Sasuke himself simply has a straight tomoe design for his normal Mangekyo.. which apparently makes him move more fluidly than people who don't have straight tomoe designs? [[User:QuakingStar|QuakingStar]] ([[User talk:QuakingStar|talk]]) 00:47, May 20, 2017 (UTC)
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:::::Exactly. I thought that was cleared up already? The eternal MS is to the MS what Sasuke's Rinnegan is to the normal Rinnegan, basically. Not what the MS is to the Sharingan. It's not a new dojutsu. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 09:59, May 20, 2017 (UTC)
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::''We did not do that. And I really don't want to bother with something that won't be resolved anyway. We're not going to add anything more to the article than what the manga presented and most of all we're not going to pretend the real name of the eternal MS was "Straight Swirl Sharingan" or whatever, because that was never stated.''
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:Really? This wiki has made, unmade and remade articles on shakier ground than this. Plus who the hell came with the fact that the Choku Tomoe gives "fluidity" to your movements? Fluidity pertains to body motions, not visual perception. I know that was in one of the earlier translations, but even most latter translations and even the in the anime (spoken by Madara's VO, not by translation) what he says goes more along the lines of: "Your Mangekyo...they are Choku Tomoe. No wonder you move so well...now if this were anyone else, you could make a case that they complementing their actual motions, but as noted multiple times, when Madara makes a reference to someone "moving well" it tends to be due to his weird metaphors about battles and his enemies battle prowess, comparing them to dances, dance steps and moves. In other words he wasn't making a reference to Sasuke's physical prowess ''specifically'' but more making a remark about his general battle prowess.
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::''What's more, he actually says in chapter 657 "I can feel it... that Mangekyo has...... straight tomoe". He doesn't use the word "form" or anything, he's just saying that Sasuke's Mangekyo has straight tomoe.''
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:Can you get me a translation of this? [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 11:43, May 20, 2017 (UTC)
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:::He says fluidity, as in Sasuke's movements. As for the second point, that is my translation. I mean, I understand what you want to say, that the true name of the eternal MS is "Choku Tomoe Mangekyo Sharingan", but that is simply not the case. Madara uses "choku tomoe" the same way Itachi used "eternal": descriptive. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 15:53, May 20, 2017 (UTC)
   
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I've noticed that the known forms of EMS always cause the design of the transplanted eyes to change when merged. Madara's EMS design was his MS design layered over Izuna's, with the latter's being reduced to just the bar sections and rotated 30°. Sasuke's was more extreme in that Itachi's design was reduced(?) to fit inside Sasuke's while changing from curved to straight to more properly fit. Is it too minor a detail to exclude from the description, given that it would only be a few words and leave no indication for personal theories?[[User:Lokker G|Lokker G]] ([[User talk:Lokker G|talk]]) 21:41, June 10, 2017 (UTC)
Can Switch Between Sharingan.. Mangekyo Sharingan, and Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan as seen in the end of the Kabuto vs Uchiha bros fight from Sasuke, and in the latest chapter [[Special:Contributions/173.66.119.89|173.66.119.89]] ([[User talk:173.66.119.89|talk]]) 09:45, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
:The choku tomoe refers to Sasuke's and Madara's MS, not eMS. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 21:55, June 10, 2017 (UTC)
   
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==Hagoromo's Mangekyo==
: Itachi vs Kakashi first battle... Not sure about EMS though--'''~ [[User:UltimateSupreme|<span style="font-family:chiller; font-size:1.5em; color:blue;">Ultimate</span>]][[User talk:UltimateSupreme|<span style="color:#EE2C2C; font-family:chiller; font-size:1.5em;">Supreme</span>]]''' 09:47, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
 
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Is their any image available Hagoromo's Mangekyo sharingan. <span style="border:2px solid gold; background:#000; padding: 5px 8px 0px; border-radius: 20px; font-family:gabriola; font-size:130%">[[User:Clash.Bikash|<span style="color:#FFB600;">'''Clash.Bikash'''</span>]]</span>[[User_talk:Clash.Bikash|<span style="color:#800000; text-shadow: #FFF 0 0 8px; font-family:gabriola;">'''Talk'''</span>]] 19:43, November 19, 2017 (UTC)
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:No, because his Sharingan is an anime-only thing (he might have had it in the canon as well, but no evidence, up to your headcanon) and in the anime his eyes awakened the Rinnegan right after, thus not showing us what his MS looked like.--[[User:Elveonora|'''Elve''']] {{Mod}} <sup><small>[[User talk:Elveonora|Talk Page]]|[[Special:Contributions/Elveonora|Contribs]]</small></sup> 19:55, November 19, 2017 (UTC)
 
::And if you at least bothered reading the section about Hagoromo in the article, you wouldn't have to ask. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 20:04, November 19, 2017 (UTC)
   
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== Straight Tomoe ==
:That panel could very well be qan art error. I believe there has been at least one instance of Madara's wood clones being drawn with his Mangekyo despite having the Eternal Mangekyo on other panels.--[[User:BeyondRed|BeyondRed]] ([[User talk:BeyondRed|talk]]) 10:09, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
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I am beginning to think Straight Tomoe does not relate to design because Izuna and Obito have straight designs, but Madara said the only ones with a Straight Tomoe Sharingan and Mangekyo Sharingan are Sasuke's and himself. I'm going to try adding a trivia entry into this and refer to the talk page as justification for my edit. If anyone reverts it, we can just discuss it here.[[User:Cloudtheavenger|Cloudtheavenger]] ([[User talk:Cloudtheavenger|talk]]) 19:21, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
BUT, Sasuke has been shown like this ever since the Kabuto vs Uchiha Bros battle... but it does stand for better reasoning that it has to be an art error.. [[Special:Contributions/173.66.119.89|173.66.119.89]] ([[User talk:173.66.119.89|talk]]) 13:56, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
:The Kabuto vs Uchiha Bros. example was part of a flashback. Notice the black around the panels, and Sasuke's open collar. [[User:SaiST|SaiST]] ([[User talk:SaiST|talk]]) 02:28, February 6, 2013 (UTC)
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:Seems like that is about the Rinnegan and not Sharingan [[User:GriffinLX|GriffinLX]] ([[User talk:GriffinLX|talk]]) 01:59 PM, 2 September 2021 (CEST)
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::What a non-sense take. Madara makes the comparison to Sasuke before Sasuke even has his Rinnegan. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 17:13, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
   
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== Aptitude being a factor in MS techs. ==
Wait for volume release/re-release--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:23, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
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A reddit user posted this, and says it is from one of the databooks.
Bringing up this issue again. 620 is the second chapter in a row where Sasuke has a normal MS rather than his EMS. What do we do about it? ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 04:49, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
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https://www.reddit.com/r/NarutoFanfiction/comments/j45nth/itachis_mangekyou_is_different_from_everyone/g7inl7r/?context=3
:Without more to go on I have to believe it's an art error. [[User:Arrancar79|Arrancar79]] ([[User talk:Arrancar79|talk]]) 05:15, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
 
:: Kishi is good about correcting that stuff though. I've never seen an art error that goes on into multiple consecutive chapters. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 05:17, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::Right. Doesn't look like an art error.--'''~ [[User:UltimateSupreme|<span style="color:blue;">Ultimate</span>]][[User talk:UltimateSupreme|<span style="color:#EE2C2C;">Supreme</span>]]''' 05:42, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
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Is this true? If so it makes sense considering the thing Itachi is best at is Genjutsu, and Sasuke's best abilities are ninjutsu.
About to play captain obvious in here, it's logical that EMS users still can access their "original" final Susanoo, thus their own MS as well? ;D--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:53, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
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Aptitude | Definition of Aptitude by Merriam-Webster (merriam-webster.com)
I don't like it, but it's definitely a possibility.. but Kishi can make mistakes sometimes too, take Chapter 599 with Minato's Hokage statue for example. that's an error well beyond the ridiculousness of these past few chapters. I think we should wait and see what the re-release looks like. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 21:14, February 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
If I remember correctly, Madara's MS instead of EMS against Onoki wasn't fixed in a re-release--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:26, February 15, 2013 (UTC)
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[[User:BloodOfTheArchon|BloodOfTheArchon]] ([[User talk:BloodOfTheArchon|talk]]) 03:29, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
   
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:Between lack of saying specifically which entry of which book says this (meaning no context), frequent use of hyperbole in the books, and the general multitude of mistranslations I've seen through the years, I wouldn't put stock in it. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 04:21, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
It would make sense only if was actually not a mistake. I don't think Kishi is that of a hurry... It's probably that Sasuke wants to hide his full power, doesn't he do a lot of that normally?
 
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::He claimed it was the entry for Tsukuyomi, so either DB3 or DB4 I think but that still doesn't help much. I will have to do some digging to find translations hopefully. But you're right, as of right now I won't take it seriously. [[User:BloodOfTheArchon|BloodOfTheArchon]] ([[User talk:BloodOfTheArchon|talk]]) 04:41, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
[[Special:Contributions/96.25.226.21|96.25.226.21]] ([[User talk:96.25.226.21|talk]]) 11:49, February 16, 2013 (UTC)
 
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:::It's from the second databook, page 253. The relevant sentence is:
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::::''"うちは"の血と天<span style="color:red">賦</span>の才に愛されし者だけに許された、正に天与の術だと言える。''
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:::I can't make out one of the kanji clearly (colored red), and it happens to be the same kanji that the translation says is "aptitude". But even though I'm uncertain what the kanji is, it is clear that it's the "aptitude" of the '''Uchiha''', in the same way that it's the blood of the Uchiha. So no, it does not suggest the individual's particular talents affect their MS abilities. '''''~[[User:Snapper2|Snapper]][[User talk:Snapper2|T]][[Special:Contributions/Snapper2|o]]''''' 05:09, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
   
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== Sarada awakened her Mangekyō Sharingan ==
== Is the Eternal MS....eternal? ==
 
   
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Should it be added that Sarada has awakened her Mangekyō Sharingan? {{unsigned|Shafeeg Aladem}}
Sorry, but I am not sure anymore. After seeing Sasuke's Eternal Mangekyo sharigan bleed when fighting Kabuto, I am doubting if the EMS is actually permanent. One could say it just bleeds, but I always thought of the bleeding eye as a sign of the eye going blind. So is the EMS just a stronger version of the MS, or what?--{{unsigned|65.188.41.37}}
 
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:We do not add leaked chapter stuff until the official English translated chapters are officially released for everyone. And please sign your replies. [[User:OmegaRasengan|OmegaRasengan]] ([[User talk:OmegaRasengan|talk]]) 21:21, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
:The bleeding comes from the strain the techniques puts on the eye. It's never been said the bleeding was a sign of the eye deteriorating; loss of sight is.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 13:01, March 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
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== Nanashi Uchiha ==
The Amaterasu fire actually comes out of the eye, it makes it bleed. After his first day of using MS, Sasuke noticed loss of sight, but while fighting Kabuto, he spammed things and his sight doesn't appear to be any worsened by now since the transplant--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 14:40, March 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
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If she is not ther do to being a game Character then it Fine {{Unsigned|Maurbor}}
Okay. Thanks for the clear up guys. (And if I knew how to sign the thing, I would have. I don't think I have an account){{unsigned|}}
 
 
You don't need an account to sign your post, just leave 4x ~ after your comment--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:05, March 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Got it. But err, is it known that the EMS known to last forever? Or is this still an assumption? (Also, and I know it is miniscule, but can we get rid of the use of "an" before the word "Uchiha"? I know the English language is annoying, but in the same way you would say "An honest man" Or "A URL" shouldn't it be "A Uchiha"? [[Special:Contributions/65.188.41.37|65.188.41.37]] ([[User talk:65.188.41.37|talk]]) 18:11, March 30, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Or is it ooo-chi-ha instead of yooo-chi--ha? [[Special:Contributions/65.188.41.37|65.188.41.37]] ([[User talk:65.188.41.37|talk]]) 18:12, March 30, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
nobody cares about that here you buffon, it is known omfg how would they still be able to use their eyes so much eh?? an you can't be serious about the language part {{unsigned|79.223.95.229}}
 
 
You should watch out for how you refer to other people. His (or her, I don't know) question is valid, though simply reading the article should answer that, we write them for a reason. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 18:36, March 30, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Buffon, eh? Well, the fact that it doesn't go blind doesn't seem to be in this article. The only thing that kinda looks like it is the phrase "permanently restores". Wouldn't saying that the eye cannot go blind make more sense or be a bit more clear? And wouldn't you at least understand someone's confusion when they see the EMS bleed? I know I thought that to be a sign that the eye is going blind, and I am sure others may have thought so. Not only that but the EMS hasn't been see much in the anime nor manga, so saying "how would they still be able to use their eyes so much eh??" doesn't make any sense. [[Special:Contributions/65.188.41.37|65.188.41.37]] ([[User talk:65.188.41.37|talk]]) 17:45, March 31, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
I'm pretty sure most of us didn't expect Sasuke being able to use his regular MS either. So excuse me for having some bloody questions. [[Special:Contributions/65.188.41.37|65.188.41.37]] ([[User talk:65.188.41.37|talk]]) 17:47, March 31, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
No once accuses you for having such question, it's more valid than the one with "a/an" lol. The Sharingan blindness has nothing to do with physical damage done to the eye, it has been specifically stated to stem from the eye "loosing light" (whatever that means) and sealing itself, I dare to assume it works in a similar way to [[Hyuga branch family curse seal]] but in a natural way (notice how Sharingan seals itself off after using Izanagi for example) Logically, changing the wielder of a blind eye wouldn't repair the damage, so this confirms it. While the strain from using MS techniques is an actual damage to the blood vessels in the eye. So in short, yes, eternal mangekyou is eternal, but it's user can still become blind in a real-world way like the eye getting destroyed, or cataract, glaucoma or other diseases etc.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 18:27, March 31, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
The techniques and powers of the MS are eternal In a sense the MS can supports Itself while having a user, but yes of course the eye Is still vulnerable to things such as blood loss and strain etc but It may activate a protections seal of some sort i don't know, but I hope myself and others have helped--<span style="color:CornflowerBlue;">[[User:Jmootam1999]][[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]]</span><span style="color:Indigo;">[[User talk:Jmootam1999|Loves Naruto]]</span> 18:34, March 31, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
The blood loss thing is making it unnecessarily confusing.... And excuse my doubt, Elveonora, but I don't think that is true. I don't think EMS would only stay eternal as long as amaterasu or any other damaging eye techniques (and I would say that being nearly all of them) isn't used..Sounds kinda weird and kinda defeats the purpose, wouldn't you say? Even if the only techinique that could make the eye blind is Amaterasu, it seems a bit off. I don't know, whatever. I guess we will see in the future. [[Special:Contributions/65.188.41.37|65.188.41.37]] ([[User talk:65.188.41.37|talk]]) 19:11, March 31, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
That's not what I said. The blood stems from there being pressure on blood vessels, it doesn't make the eye blind in itself. As I said, the blindness from over-usage is more magical/mystical it would appear--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:35, March 31, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
How are you confused because [[Amaterasu]] Is a Jutsu which requires alot of focus and [[Chakra]] to work In the eye, therefore tiring the chakra points In
 
that area causing strain do you understand now --
 
<span style="padding-left:6px; background-color:Gold; border:6px dotted yellow;{{border-radius|20em 20em 20em 20em}}">[[File:Nature_Icon_Yin–Yang.svg|0x15px]][[User:Jmootam1999|<span style= "font-size:15px; font-family: Bauhaus 93;">'''Jmootam1999'''</span>]][[File:Nature_Icon_Yin–Yang.svg|0x15px]]</span> 20:10, March 31, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Oh, so the pain or strain the eye comes with is not synonymous with it getting blind/losing its light? Seems rather strange but I guess it is kinda like Inzanami/gi. Okay, I get it now. Sorry and thanks everyone. I hope you did in some way understand how confusion could be engedered from all that... [[Special:Contributions/65.188.41.37|65.188.41.37]] ([[User talk:65.188.41.37|talk]]) 20:39, March 31, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
I understand :) --
 
<span style="padding-left:6px; background-color:Gold; border:6px dotted yellow;{{border-radius|20em 20em 20em 20em}}">[[File:Nature_Icon_Yin–Yang.svg|0x15px]][[User:Jmootam1999|<span style= "font-size:15px; font-family: Bauhaus 93;">'''Jmootam1999'''</span>]][[File:Nature_Icon_Yin–Yang.svg|0x15px]]</span> 20:41, March 31, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
== Obito's fire jutsu ==
 
 
It should be removed from the jutsu box since it's a jutsu in its own right that can potentially be combined with Kamui. It's not a MS jutsu though.--[[User:Reliops|Reliops]] ([[User talk:Reliops|talk]]) 22:16, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
 
:If it was a Jutsu on its own it wouldn't be ''this'' Jutsu, but a simple Gōkakyu. The spinning is what makes this Jutsu to what it is. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 22:26, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
 
::Well, but he did its namesake without Kamui like a generic Katon--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:48, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Obito used the very same technique in chapter 628 without using Kamui. They are clearly two separate jutsu that can be used in tandem.--[[User:Reliops|Reliops]] ([[User talk:Reliops|talk]]) 01:48, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Obito's Blast Wave Wild Dance is showing up due to a bug. When the page was first made, for some reason, it appeared twice in the list. After we saw Obito using it without Kamui's assistance, it was no longer considered a kekkei genkai technique, but only one of the links vanished. We've had that sort of trouble before. Back when the jinchūriki were first named in the artbook, there was a page for Han's steam-based ninjutsu. For some reason, that appeared three times in any infobox that would list it. Butsuma for example, debuts twice in the infobox for the chapter he debuts in. Simant has suggested this is due to some changes to the semantic data structure before and after the last update, the data and the data interpreter speak two different dialects, so to speak (pun not intended). [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 19:06, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
 
:He did use it without Kamui? Where? oO [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 19:11, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
 
::He did, unless it was a mistranslation. If it wasn't then it's noteworthy that the name and appearance fit more when sued with Kamui ._.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:13, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::He used it without Kamui in the opening pages of chapter 628. You can clearly see that there are no Kamui distortions. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 20:03, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
 
::::The spiraling flames on said page are kind of indicative of Kamui's usage. [[User:SaiST|SaiST]] ([[User talk:SaiST|talk]]) 22:54, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
:::::The fire jutsu that Obito uses do spin he just uses Kamui to giv it an increase in range and power.[[User:Whiteraven1|Whiteraven1]] ([[User talk:Whiteraven1|talk]]) 22:59, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
 
::::::I'd say the ''"range and power"'' were clearly in another league compared to when he first used the technique. Just because we don't see any lines indicating Kamui's distortion on that particular panel, doesn't mean it wasn't being utilized to bring about that result. I believe it would be safer to assume that it '''was''' until we see something more definitive indicating otherwise. [[User:SaiST|SaiST]] ([[User talk:SaiST|talk]]) 23:06, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
 
Kishimoto has never hesitated to draw Kamui's lines to indicate its use, that's not something time consuming like drawing hand seals. There wasn't even focus on the eye. Also, is it so other-wordly that maybe the flames might be able to spiral by themselves? Regarding the size, I'd like to remind everyone that Obito does have Hashirama's cells, giving him a great chakra pool with which to make the technique powerful. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 00:42, June 4, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
== Concerning the pre-requisites of the Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan ==
 
 
*''"In finding a new master, '''his brother's eyes''' gained eternal light..."''
 
*''"However, such an '''exchange''' could only ever take place between members of the same clan."''
 
*''"By changing hosts, the '''younger brother's eyes''' found an inextinguishable light!"''
 
*''"However, this '''trade''' can only be carried out among family members."''
 
*''"It seems that by acquiring a new host, '''his brother's eyes''' gained eternal light..."''
 
*''"Obviously, this "'''exchange'''" could only be done between clansmen."''
 
*''"Because '''these are your eyes'''!!"''
 
Now... Cerez, if you would please show me the example in which ''"integrate"'' was used to describe the transplant, I'd appreciate it. [[User Talk:SaiST|'''SaiST''']] [[File:Mangekyō Sharingan Sasuke (Eternal).svg|15px]] 14:03, July 2, 2013 (UTC)
 

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Indra's Mangekyou Sharingan Design

Where does it show Indra's Mangekyou Sharingan Design? Where it in the manga or anime? I dont think he have an actual confirm design.--Ankhael (talk) 18:00, June 4, 2016 (UTC)

Yes we have, and you've been a pain the ass about it ever since. Chapter 462, when Tobi is telling the story to Naruto, Yamato, and Kakashi. You can see the spiral, and in the anime, it was coloured red. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:08, June 4, 2016 (UTC)
Oh ok i know what talking about, but it doesn't say its his mangekyou i dont think.--Ankhael (talk) 18:14, June 4, 2016 (UTC)
Which is why there are lengthy explanations to you, in more than one talk page, including your own, whenever you whine about the subject up or try having it removed from any article where that information is relevant. Consider this a warning, next time you mess with this information in any article, I will block you. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:49, June 4, 2016 (UTC)
A warning? As a user I have a right to edit pages. I am not doing anything wrong here. There is no clear confirmatory reference to indra's MS design. Perhaps you have a problem with me correcting this article the way it should be written with correct information. I simply asked, "where is it that I can find, clear confirmation of Indra's Mangekyou Sharingan design? You have giving nothing but vague information that doesn't really clearly give confirmation that the spiral image is his mangekyou sharingan. Sure you are entitled to assume that it is. But it doesn't mean that your bias assumptions should go into the article as fact.
Honestly I'm not here to make an argument, I'm just simply here to do the right thing, and to help me do the right thing. I think its best that we should keep his mangekyou sharingan design as unknown until further information is reveal. Perhaps you could edit the article that approaches your interesting assumption as an assumption but not a fact. I think that would be appropriate, wouldn't you agree thats fair?.--Ankhael (talk) 05:09, June 5, 2016 (UTC)
Unless the anime's Kaguya arc or a future filler arc covers Hagoromo's kids, it's highly unlikely that further information will be revealed at this point as to whether Indra's spiral-eye pattern is his Mangekyo Sharingan or not. If it is Indra's Mangekyo Sharingan, Kishimoto probably thought the fans would be able to put two and two together without him having to spell out every minute detail of information, and/or didn't even take into consideration that such a debate would ever take place. Arawn 999 (talk) 05:22, June 5, 2016 (UTC)
I guess your right Arawn, but still it they shouldn't write it as fact that his mangekyou sharingan looks like that. Sure its a fact he was shown to have those spiral eyes, but that just that he was shown to have them. But we cant just make put our assumptions as fact in the article. Omnibender seems kinda bias, no offense Omnibender, but you don't want to hear me out on this. No one really does. It just make clear sense that the some of the users get to get away with stuff like this. But dont allow others to elaborate on other thing in the articles. Like hagoromo and others. Hagoromo has a Mangekyou Sharingan but no one knows its design, and honestly the same goes for indra's. Its nothing wrong with this wiki, its a great page but the users, are somewhat bias. No offense but im calling it how i see it. --Ankhael (talk) 05:45, June 5, 2016 (UTC)
To be fair, though, there really isn't anything else the spiral eyes can be other than his Mangekyo Sharingan, especially given that Indra was shown with a regular Sharingan, he's known to have a Mangekyo Sharingan since he used Susanoo against Asura, and the spiral eyes were coloured red - at least in the anime. As I said, Kishi probably figured readers would be able to deduce that the spiral eyes were Indra's Mangekyo without having to be explicitly told - part of good storytelling is "show, don't tell", after all. Arawn 999 (talk) 06:00, June 5, 2016 (UTC)
You have been at this for over two years now, haven't you? I appreciate that you're so persistent, but when you're told multiple times to stop changing this, you have to listen. Of course you have the right to edit pages, but we can revoke this right if you continue to spam the same edit over years. The eyes are indirectly confirmed to be Indra's MS simply through showing them when Tobi talks about the sons inheriting his father's powers. In the same scene, Ashura was shown with the aura to indicate his physical prowess. Plus, they're the only change in his eyes that was ever shown, and he was never said to have another dojutsu, nor is there any indiation that there actually is an entirely new dojutsu we were never told anything about. If you can't put two and two together, it's your problem, but please stop editing this. • Seelentau 愛 10:03, June 5, 2016 (UTC)
Ankhael contributes nothing except an obsession with this topic, as well as calling every single user (and the wiki) "biased" when people don't agree with him on it. Indra has a Mangekyo, end of story and I really hope you get blocked if you bring it up any more times. --Sajuuk 10:58, June 5, 2016 (UTC)

So I will be blocked because I brought up a minor edit issue for the second time in 2 years. Go right ahead, I'm sure you can block me over something as little as this, that is a big idea to you guys, especially if your threatened to block me, thats fine I'll live. But I will point out that what you guys are doing is not correct editing. This is not just an Indra issue, as you make it.

Just at least hear me out before you block me

the scene in the anime does not clearly confirm that what are seeing is Indra's Mangekyo Sharingan Design. Your making Inferences based off what you are seeing. Its nothing wrong with that assumption, in the article, its that we cannot make it a fact. Sure he inherited his father's eye power, but to what extent. Just like you i can put a 2 and 2 together to get a different 4, for along time we thought that the sages eye powers was just rinnegan, but we learn that sharingan was his first unlocked power than mangekyou to Rinnegan. With Indra being the son, his powers could be exactly like his father's, from Sharingan to Rinnegan, Indra and hagoromo is a 1000 years before the rest of the uchiha, and the uchiha over the span of a 1000 years could have lost their natural ability to awaken rinnegan, however just like you that is an assumption I just made. We saw variations of rinnegan, to red, purple, with tomoe, what if thats Indra rinnegan variation, again i am only making an assumption. Based off that scene in the anime and with the fact that Indra is born with his father's eye power, along with the reveal detail on Hagoromo's use of sharingan to rinnegan i can easily assume that maybe Indra possess rinnegan as well. Just like you can assume that its his mangekyou. As well Asura having Hagoromo's body power, asura was able to naturally unlock and use the sage of six paths mode, Indra having Hagoromo's eye power could have been able to naturally unlock rinnegan and over time the power lessen throughout the 2 clans, that makes perfect sense. Just an assumption that can contrast your assumption on it being a Mangekyou. Putting 2 and 2 together you can get another 4, and again i am only assuming here, but it doesn't mean i should make it a fact. That easily just made as much as sense if not more from what we seen so far with the information that have been reveal. --Ankhael (talk) 14:01, June 5, 2016 (UTC)


It could be another variation of a red rinnegan. Or a purple. What other evidence suggests otherwise, this assumption can be easily made just like its being assume that its Mangekyo Sharingan. And for this, thats why I said it isnt a good idea to write it as fact in the article but pre assumed. --Ankhael (talk) 14:07, June 5, 2016 (UTC)

Indra having the Rinnegan makes no sence at all, unlike MS. Do you know that Black Zetsu tempted Indra into battling Asura and then spent centuries with making their descendants join forces and awaken the Rinnegan? For BZ, the latter action would've been completely pointless if Indra himself possessed the Rinnegan, and BZ could've easily made Indra summon Gedo Mazo from the Moon and set Eye of the Moon plan into the motion already then. Yet he chose to manipulate his descendants into awakening Rinnegan instead, which means that it's surely not the Rinnegan Indra possessed. And all the Indra's descendants needed Asura's power to attain it, this point stands clear thanks to the BZ tale (besides, Asura possessed the SPSM only because of Hagoromo granting him his power). The pattern doesn't even remind the Rinnegan (it didn't spread throughout the entire eyeball), at the same time it's not a regular Sharingan too. The only known stage between regular Sharingan and Rinnegan is MS - and we know that a) different users have different MS patterns, so Indra's eyes can be a one b) He surely possessed an MS because of his Susanoo use. And since there are no other known doujutsu between Sharingan and Rinnegan, the only one left is MS. It's pure logic, dude. Ravenlot 27 (talk) 14:24, June 5, 2016 (UTC)

Ok you do have a good point, i guess that settles it.--Ankhael (talk) 14:33, June 5, 2016 (UTC)

It was explicitly stated by Hagoromo that he was afraid that Indra would have attempted to steal Asura's power in order to get the Rinnegan, confirming that Indra didn't have the Rinnegan and would have needed Asura's power to get it.--Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 16:00, June 5, 2016 (UTC)

Whew, finally. And don't fret, you're not going to get banned for this (at least nor for a long time). Just remember that most of us have been editing wikis for a long time, we know how to handle these things properly. So if you see something like this, you can be sure that we've taken all possibilities into consideration before adding the information. :) • Seelentau 愛 16:01, June 5, 2016 (UTC)

Mangekyou Sharingan Intro

In This Line Of Text: "The Mangekyō Sharingan (万華鏡写輪眼, Literally meaning: Kaleidoscope Copy Wheel Eye) is an advanced form of the Sharingan that has only been activated by a handful of Uchiha." I Made An Edit Changing That Last Line Uchiha, Into People, With Each Half Of The Word Linking It To Uchiha And Otsutsuki, Not Just Uchiha. I Did So Because Indra (And In The Anime Hagoromo) Are Not Uchiha, But Otsutsuki. But Jou Seems To Think It Should Remain As Uchiha For Some Unknown Reason, And Keeps Undoing The Edit. Bob1200 (talk) 00:56, June 11, 2016 (UTC)

Mentioning just the Uchiha in that opening isn't wrong, logically speaking. It says only a handful of Uchiha awakened it, framing its rarity only within the Uchiha. An Ōtsutsuki having awakened it isn't excluded by that statement. It's the same logic as answering the question "Is Naruto blue-eyed or brown-eyed?" with "yes". Considering the MS appeared primarily on the Uchiha, with only one natural, non-Uchiha user in canon, not mentioning Ōtsutsuki in the opening makes complete sense. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:06, June 11, 2016 (UTC)
What If We Make It So It Says "and One Otsutsuki" And Link It To Indra, So The Otsutsuki Aren't Left Out? Bob1200 (talk) 01:14, June 11, 2016 (UTC)
There're already mentioned in the infobox, that's enough. --JouXIII (talk) 11:42, June 11, 2016 (UTC)
Not Really, Because There's Only 2-3 Actual Mentions Of Indra In The Entire Page. Bob1200 (talk) 18:41, June 11, 2016 (UTC)
Considering those cover the entirety of MS related things regarding Indra (had it, could use Susanoo), it is ok. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:51, June 11, 2016 (UTC)

Hagoromo's MS design

Just wondering, who is able to create these neat .svg-file? Just saw there's none for Hagoromo's design yet. :/ Norleon (talk) 05:49, June 17, 2016 (UTC)

Because it was never shown due to Hagoromo's eyes evolving to Rinnegan at the same time. As for your question, I know of two users who can create .svg files.--JOA2006:14, June 17, 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for the answer. I thought they labeled the thing on his forehead his MS. oO Norleon (talk) 12:24, June 19, 2016 (UTC)

Kakashi Not in Known Wielders Section

I don't know if this is a good thing to point out, or is a dumb question but. Why isn't Kakashi not in the Known Wielders? I know he gotten his Sharingan from Obito, then he awaken the Mangekyō Sharingan after killing Rin (Is that her name?). So why wouldn't he be there? (AtlantisUchiha (talk))

All the MSs are listed only for the original owners, because technically it's still their own power, even if later it was given to someone else. But it doesn't change the fact the MS actually belongs to it's original wielder, not just someone who received his eye. Kakashi's Sharingan originally belonged to Obito, so all his traits and abilities are mentioned in Obito's MS section, as well as the fact that the left eye was in possession of Kakashi for a long time. Ravenlot 27 (talk) 10:14, June 19, 2016 (UTC)

Jinraiden trivia citation

One trivia there was about how someone experiences eye irritation before their Mangekyo activates. I think it's from Jinraiden chapter 3 so I added that as the citation. Something about the trivia wording seems a little off, but I don't know how to fix it, exactly. I'll just put a part of the fan translation (by kiyoitsukikage of Tumblr) here so people can decide what to do with it.

(Jinraiden is in Sasuke's POV)

I tried to kneel down, but I suddenly felt my eyes throbbing. Within a few moments, a sharp pain spread from my eye sockets, causing my eyeballs to tremble.

What the hell was happening? I raised both my hands to cover my eyes, which were throbbing violently by then. My field of vision distorted and I instinctively grabbed the tombstone not to fall.

The intensity of the vibrations did nothing but increase: it was just as if my eyes were trying to tell me something. The Mangekyo Sharingan activates itself with the killing of a loved one. I did a mind calculation: twenty-two days had passed since Itachi's death. That pain was due to the activation of the Mangekyo Sharingan in my eyes.

The death of a loved one.

And yet I hated him with all my heart until a moment before he had died.

At that moment, under the pouring rain, I was even happy for Itachi's death.

If what Madara had asserted was true, Itachi had given me the Mangekyo Sharingan by letting me defeat him.

The death of a loved one, of someone I loved. Itachi had been able to see what was invisible to my eyes, blinded by hatred. That's why I was chosen by the Mangekyo Sharingan. What should I have done? Was he asking me to become the Leaf's defender? Was this what he wished for from the bottom of his heart?

However, if I hadn't managed to understand what was concealed deep within my heart, probably he wasn't able to read his heart either.

Was he really okay with something like that? We had to protect the Leaf even at the cost of sacrificing our clan? I didn't want this. Not such an ending.

The thing I wanted...

The black flames were swallowing my heart.

Pixerella (talk) 14:49, December 21, 2016 (UTC)

Eternal Mangekyo or Choku Tomoe Sharingan

Hello there, long time no see.

So as i have been rewatching old Naruto episodes near the end of the saga in the fight between Naruto and Sasuke against Madara, the latter makes some interesting remarks about the Choku Tomoe or "Straight Swirl" Sharingan that both he and Sasuke have. The first time he made such a remark was in a small scuflle between him and Sasuke, where he noted that the "Straight Swirl" Sharingan granted the user more fluid movements, which to me sounds like a funny way to say thar ir enhances the "Eye of Insight" part of the Sharingan. Now while this is nice in itself, i find it odd that Madara focuses on that aspect of both his and Sasuke's eyes over all the plethora of powers a "Eternal" Mangekyo brings to the table.

Now the thing that bugs me here is: in the series, especially when done by other Uchihas, when enemies are analyzing/praising Sasuke's abilities, they generally focus on his analytical capabilities, battle experience, movement speed and above all the grade of his Dojutsu at the time of each fight. (i.e "he's fast, he has good instincts and analytical skills and has a X-type Sharingan). So first you have the small fight between Uchihas, then you have Madara fighting Naruto and Sasuke after both had aquired the powers of the Six Paths, where Madara muses if both had a connection beyond blood and latter again, when musing about wether or not he would have made a better frontman for him than Obito was. In all 3 occassions what he focuses is in the "Choku Tomoe" Sharingan above all else.

Given this, wouldn't it be more accurate for Madara to note Sasuke's "Eternal Mangekyo" Sharingan since they were the only two who acquired it and by definition that is the highest grade of the Uchiha dojutsu? (Rinnegan shennigans not withstanding). With this in mind isn't it possible that the official name the "Eternal" Mangekyo is actually the "Straight Swirl" Sharingan?

Thoughts? Darksusanoo (talk) 20:29, May 19, 2017 (UTC)

He simply speaks about the form of the Mangekyo Sharingan's tomoe. The eternal Mangekyo Sharingan is still a Mangekyo Sharingan, not a third evolution or anything. There's no "Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan", only "(eternal) Mangekyo Sharingan". • Seelentau 愛 20:52, May 19, 2017 (UTC)
Yeah but the thing is the occasion where he mentions this. The first makes sense since he was in a hand-to-hand fight against Sasuke. But when he's thinking about his blood connection to the younger Uchiha or more importantly when measuring him up to Obito and saying he would have liked to have Sasuke instead of Obito, why would he focus on such a minor trait of the Sharingan, compared to all the other, much bigger powers that it gives? Darksusanoo (talk) 20:57, May 19, 2017 (UTC)
Because Kishimoto sucks at storytelling. He made something previously non-existant significant all of a sudden, without explaining it in more detail. This means that everything besides of Madara's words is pure speculation. • Seelentau 愛 21:00, May 19, 2017 (UTC)
True his storytelling is flawed, but i don't think you can chalk it up to a author's flaw and ignore since this ie meantion 3 times. Once maybe a mistake, twice is happenstance but three times is a pattern. Now if i remember correctly when Itachi first made the ramark that he wanted Sasuke's eyes way back when and told Madara's story, he said that Madara took Izuna's eyes for himself and from there a new eye was born. And there's also the fact that this hightened Mangekyo never had a "official" name despite the fact that it's of a different pattern and of superior power and it was Itachi's description that served as one,
Aside from this, while he notes that he and Sasuke were the only 2 who had the same type of eyes, there's also the fact that Madara never refered to his eyes or Sasuke's own with the term Mangekyo at anytime. The "straight pattern" is tied to the Mangekyo, not the regular Sharingan since all normal Sharingan's are exactly the same, yet Madara never reffered to it as a Mangekyo with a straight pattern, it was the "Straight Swirl" Sharingan. In other words i think that it was "us" (the community) that coined the term of Eternal and didn't realize when Kishi actually dropped the name of the thing. Darksusanoo (talk) 21:32, May 19, 2017 (UTC)
I think you're misunderstanding. The pure fact that he introduced it, gave it some kind of ambiguous meaning and then refused to explain it in more detail was a mistake.
This "hightened Mangekyo" does not exist, that's why it does not have a different name from the normal Mangekyo Sharingan.
We did not coin anything, the eternal Mangekyo Sharingan was actually described as that. In the same way, Madara called his and Sasuke's eternal MS a "straight-tomoe Sharingan". Maybe he did so because he didn't know the term "Mangekyo Sharingan", who knows? That's where we get back to my first point: Kishimoto introduced some obscure thing without further explanation, which was stupid. • Seelentau 愛 21:47, May 19, 2017 (UTC)
I don't see anything ambiguous to it. He reffered to that type of Sharingan as only being woken by him and Sasuke. Guess what do both have in common? Both took their siblings eyes.
So a procedure that gives your dojutsu superior strength to it's techniques, better perception and a altered scelera isn't considered to be a "hightened" version of the same. Riiiiight.
It was a description, but not a title, that's the issue here. We took a description and turned it into a title. And sure, the dude that was one of the forefathers of the clan and knew every nook and cranny of the clan and it's Bloodline Limit, doesn't know the name of one of it's forms, yet guys from his time, that were outside the clan like Tobirama and Onoki managed to know that term. As for explanation it was already there, by Madara's own words: a type of Sharingan that only he had, up until Sasuke also gained it and that made him think twice about having picked Obito as a executor to his will, despite the fact that Obito proved himself as a late blooming genius and developed a level of power that nearly rivaled Madara's own. Do you think such a description fits such a minor trait as what is noted currently? Darksusanoo (talk) 22:43, May 19, 2017 (UTC)
We did not do that. And I really don't want to bother with something that won't be resolved anyway. We're not going to add anything more to the article than what the manga presented and most of all we're not going to pretend the real name of the eternal MS was "Straight Swirl Sharingan" or whatever, because that was never stated. • Seelentau 愛 22:48, May 19, 2017 (UTC)
OrganicDinosaurs translation makes it clear they are talking about the eternal mangekyo when they say Choku Tomoe. Madara said that the CHOKU tomoe variant grants more fluidity of movement in battle. That line itself hints there was at least 1 or 2 other EMS users, either that or Choku does indeed refer to the regular MS and then that would make no sense in Madara's case as he does not have any straight design in his MS eyes. So what does it mean in your opinion Seel? I know you translated that before too right?? QuakingStar (talk) 22:51, May 19, 2017 (UTC)
Madara words it the same as Itachi when he called Madara's MS "eternal", with a no. That is never done when actually naming something.
What's more, he actually says in chapter 657 "I can feel it... that Mangekyo has...... straight tomoe". He doesn't use the word "form" or anything, he's just saying that Sasuke's Mangekyo has straight tomoe. • Seelentau 愛 23:12, May 19, 2017 (UTC)
Wait.. so that means the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan doesn't actually exist term wise and name wise?? It's simply Mangekyo Sharingan but with eternal eyesight and less tech strain. and Sasuke himself simply has a straight tomoe design for his normal Mangekyo.. which apparently makes him move more fluidly than people who don't have straight tomoe designs? QuakingStar (talk) 00:47, May 20, 2017 (UTC)
Exactly. I thought that was cleared up already? The eternal MS is to the MS what Sasuke's Rinnegan is to the normal Rinnegan, basically. Not what the MS is to the Sharingan. It's not a new dojutsu. • Seelentau 愛 09:59, May 20, 2017 (UTC)
We did not do that. And I really don't want to bother with something that won't be resolved anyway. We're not going to add anything more to the article than what the manga presented and most of all we're not going to pretend the real name of the eternal MS was "Straight Swirl Sharingan" or whatever, because that was never stated.
Really? This wiki has made, unmade and remade articles on shakier ground than this. Plus who the hell came with the fact that the Choku Tomoe gives "fluidity" to your movements? Fluidity pertains to body motions, not visual perception. I know that was in one of the earlier translations, but even most latter translations and even the in the anime (spoken by Madara's VO, not by translation) what he says goes more along the lines of: "Your Mangekyo...they are Choku Tomoe. No wonder you move so well...now if this were anyone else, you could make a case that they complementing their actual motions, but as noted multiple times, when Madara makes a reference to someone "moving well" it tends to be due to his weird metaphors about battles and his enemies battle prowess, comparing them to dances, dance steps and moves. In other words he wasn't making a reference to Sasuke's physical prowess specifically but more making a remark about his general battle prowess.
What's more, he actually says in chapter 657 "I can feel it... that Mangekyo has...... straight tomoe". He doesn't use the word "form" or anything, he's just saying that Sasuke's Mangekyo has straight tomoe.
Can you get me a translation of this? Darksusanoo (talk) 11:43, May 20, 2017 (UTC)
He says fluidity, as in Sasuke's movements. As for the second point, that is my translation. I mean, I understand what you want to say, that the true name of the eternal MS is "Choku Tomoe Mangekyo Sharingan", but that is simply not the case. Madara uses "choku tomoe" the same way Itachi used "eternal": descriptive. • Seelentau 愛 15:53, May 20, 2017 (UTC)

I've noticed that the known forms of EMS always cause the design of the transplanted eyes to change when merged. Madara's EMS design was his MS design layered over Izuna's, with the latter's being reduced to just the bar sections and rotated 30°. Sasuke's was more extreme in that Itachi's design was reduced(?) to fit inside Sasuke's while changing from curved to straight to more properly fit. Is it too minor a detail to exclude from the description, given that it would only be a few words and leave no indication for personal theories?Lokker G (talk) 21:41, June 10, 2017 (UTC)

The choku tomoe refers to Sasuke's and Madara's MS, not eMS. • Seelentau 愛 21:55, June 10, 2017 (UTC)

Hagoromo's Mangekyo

Is their any image available Hagoromo's Mangekyo sharingan. Clash.BikashTalk 19:43, November 19, 2017 (UTC)

No, because his Sharingan is an anime-only thing (he might have had it in the canon as well, but no evidence, up to your headcanon) and in the anime his eyes awakened the Rinnegan right after, thus not showing us what his MS looked like.--Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 19:55, November 19, 2017 (UTC)
And if you at least bothered reading the section about Hagoromo in the article, you wouldn't have to ask. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:04, November 19, 2017 (UTC)

Straight Tomoe

I am beginning to think Straight Tomoe does not relate to design because Izuna and Obito have straight designs, but Madara said the only ones with a Straight Tomoe Sharingan and Mangekyo Sharingan are Sasuke's and himself. I'm going to try adding a trivia entry into this and refer to the talk page as justification for my edit. If anyone reverts it, we can just discuss it here.Cloudtheavenger (talk) 19:21, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Seems like that is about the Rinnegan and not Sharingan GriffinLX (talk) 01:59 PM, 2 September 2021 (CEST)
What a non-sense take. Madara makes the comparison to Sasuke before Sasuke even has his Rinnegan. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:13, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Aptitude being a factor in MS techs.

A reddit user posted this, and says it is from one of the databooks.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NarutoFanfiction/comments/j45nth/itachis_mangekyou_is_different_from_everyone/g7inl7r/?context=3

Is this true? If so it makes sense considering the thing Itachi is best at is Genjutsu, and Sasuke's best abilities are ninjutsu.

Aptitude | Definition of Aptitude by Merriam-Webster (merriam-webster.com)

BloodOfTheArchon (talk) 03:29, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Between lack of saying specifically which entry of which book says this (meaning no context), frequent use of hyperbole in the books, and the general multitude of mistranslations I've seen through the years, I wouldn't put stock in it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 04:21, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
He claimed it was the entry for Tsukuyomi, so either DB3 or DB4 I think but that still doesn't help much. I will have to do some digging to find translations hopefully. But you're right, as of right now I won't take it seriously. BloodOfTheArchon (talk) 04:41, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
It's from the second databook, page 253. The relevant sentence is:
"うちは"の血と天の才に愛されし者だけに許された、正に天与の術だと言える。
I can't make out one of the kanji clearly (colored red), and it happens to be the same kanji that the translation says is "aptitude". But even though I'm uncertain what the kanji is, it is clear that it's the "aptitude" of the Uchiha, in the same way that it's the blood of the Uchiha. So no, it does not suggest the individual's particular talents affect their MS abilities. ~SnapperTo 05:09, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Sarada awakened her Mangekyō Sharingan

Should it be added that Sarada has awakened her Mangekyō Sharingan? —This unsigned comment was made by Shafeeg Aladem (talkcontribs) .

We do not add leaked chapter stuff until the official English translated chapters are officially released for everyone. And please sign your replies. OmegaRasengan (talk) 21:21, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

Nanashi Uchiha

If she is not ther do to being a game Character then it Fine —This unsigned comment was made by Maurbor (talkcontribs) .