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== Indra ==
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The second Sharingan user, first known Mangekyo user and first known Susanoo user, his spiral eye was red, it was a Mangekyo Sharingan. So its color needs to be changed and added here. [[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] ([[User talk:ItachiWasAHero|talk]]) 10:25, March 26, 2014 (UTC)
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:Really? We know nothing about Indra's prowess. His eye was first shown as a spiral-patterned one, and now it seems he had the Sharingan. I think we'd better wait for further info. About the Mangekyō, Susanoo, Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu thing, Ashura had something almost identical to Naruto's Tailed Beast Mode, but we don't list him as a jinchūriki or as a Nine-Tails Chakra Mode user, do we? Is it really that bothersome to wait a couple weeks?--[[User:JOA20|JOA20]] ([[User talk:JOA20|talk]]) 21:10, March 26, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Blindness ==
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== "handful" ==
   
Actually, there are at least two Mangekyō users who haven't shown signs of deteriorated vision yet, despite the fact they used their Mangekyō techniques a lot: I'm talking about Kakashi Hatake and Obito Uchiha. For the former, it seems he knows about the side-effects of the Mangekyō's power, so he might have blurry vision. But what about Obito? Even though his Space-Time Migration seems to be a Mangekyō technique, Tobi uses it without worry. Maybe we should say it in the Obito Uchiha part.--[[User:JOA20|JOA20]] ([[User talk:JOA20|talk]]) 20:17, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
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Madara, Izuna, Obito, Shisui, Itachi, Sasuke. That is 6 known to have awakened it, Indra was an Otsutsuki not an Uchiha and of course Kakashi doesn't count. So can 6 people really be considered a handful?? [[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] ([[User talk:ItachiWasAHero|talk]]) 17:05, April 6, 2014 (UTC)
   
Hashirama's cells, nuff said.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:48, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
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Even with the others included, it's not like adding more would be considered a handful compared to less. Though as I understand i, handful is around 1-5, so with six, I dunno, I guess if you can find a better word, like several maybe? --[[User:Hawkeye2701|Hawkeye2701]] ([[User talk:Hawkeye2701|talk]]) 17:43, April 6, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Awakening Stolen Sharingan ==
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Several is better to use, as the definition of it is "More than two, but not many" so I will change it. [[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] ([[User talk:ItachiWasAHero|talk]]) 18:15, April 6, 2014 (UTC)
   
Should Madara's statement about needing two Sharingan to unlock the Mangekyo be listed as trivia? [[User:TricksterKing|TricksterKing]] ([[User talk:TricksterKing|talk]]) 12:50, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
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Handful I guess is meant more like a percentage, from all the hundreds Uchiha since Madara, only a "handful" had the Mangekyou.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 18:41, April 6, 2014 (UTC)
:He said that? Also, Kakashi?--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 13:02, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
::He said it when he told Obito that he would take his Sharingan if he died, [http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/602/17] and [http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/90010563/19], Kakashi seems to be an anomaly for Sharingan related matters.[[User:TricksterKing|TricksterKing]] ([[User talk:TricksterKing|talk]]) 21:53, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
He wasn't referring to Mangekyou, but Rinnegan. He gave his eyes to Nagato, so he needed another pair to get a new one--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:29, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
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Yes, six people '''can''' be considered a ''"handful"'' relative to a clan that has had hundreds of people come and go throughout the generations. There is no specific range of quantity that defines the term; it is used to define a select, '''relatively''' small number of things, or people, compared to a much larger whole.
   
:Madara said he needs two Sharingan to bring out their true potential, that doesn't necessarily mean MS. Translators got it really mixed up this week because I wouldn't see why else Obito would say "''then together with Kakashi...''" he could get stronger.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 12:42, September 20, 2012 (UTC)
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The change has already been made, and it honestly isn't that big of a deal. Just sayin', it didn't have to be made in the first place. —「[[User Talk:SaiST|'''SaiST''']]」<sup>[[File:Mangekyō Sharingan Sasuke (Eternal).svg|15px|link=Special:Contributions/SaiST]]</sup> 18:53, April 6, 2014 (UTC)
::This is the issue with translators, different groups often say different things. In one I read, Obito said "then... it means that together with Kakashi I can become stronger" and in another it said "that means... that means I can become stronger than Kakashi". I wish Shounen was still here.--[[Special:Contributions/210.56.81.64|210.56.81.64]] ([[User talk:210.56.81.64|talk]]) 13:56, September 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
== Duplicate Jutsus ==
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== Did Madara really talk about the Mangekyō? ==
   
Does anyone know a reason why the Wiki hiccuped again and has made two of [[Fire Release: Blast Wave Wild Dance]]?--[[User:Questionaredude|Questionaredude]] ([[User talk:Questionaredude|talk]]) 00:00, September 20, 2012 (UTC)
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Did madara really talk about the Mangekyō Sharingan when me mentioned "only he and Sasuke have the "Straight Tomoe""? In the translations I have read he simply says Sharingan. Not that I would know what was meant by calling their sharingans straight, but then again, I wouldn't really call Madara's Mangekyō straight. [[File:Mangekyō_Sharingan_Madara.svg|thumb|101px]]
:No idea. All the previous articles that had duplicate entries show up properly now after the update. What's even stranger is that that's only happening in the Kamui article and here. It shows up ok in Obito's infobox and in the chapter infobox. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 00:20, September 20, 2012 (UTC)
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--[[User:Cosmikaze|Cosmikaze]] ([[User talk:Cosmikaze|talk]]) 20:47, April 27, 2014 (UTC)
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:Madara stated that Sasuke's Eternal Mangekyō had the Straight Swirl. Madara stated that Sasuke had the same Straight Swirl as him. So: Madara's Eternal Mangekyō had the Straight Swirl. How, I actually have no idea.--[[User:JOA20|JOA20]] ([[User talk:JOA20|talk]]) 20:49, April 27, 2014 (UTC)
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::Yeah, I figured that might be what he was talking about, but I just find it strange that he takes credit for the Mangekyō Izuna awakened. Either way I just wanted to make sure if the manga actually specified Mangekyō, since no translation I have found does so --[[User:Cosmikaze|Cosmikaze]] ([[User talk:Cosmikaze|talk]]) 21:02, April 27, 2014 (UTC)
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::Nevermind, just read chapter 657. --[[User:Cosmikaze|Cosmikaze]] ([[User talk:Cosmikaze|talk]]) 21:15, April 27, 2014 (UTC)
   
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== this may sound weird, but ==
   
== Just a thought ==
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Aren't its techniques technically Kinjutsu? Since they harm the user and all--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:24, June 6, 2014 (UTC)
It's never revealed how Kakashi awakened his Mangekyo Sharingan, yet Obito most likely awakened his at the news of Rin's death. Could it be possible that the two awakened at the same time, as if they were linked together?[[User:LeeHatake93|LeeHatake93]] ([[User talk:LeeHatake93|talk]]) 20:00, September 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
:It's possible but I figure we'll see how it happened in the next few chapters.[[User:TricksterKing|TricksterKing]] ([[User talk:TricksterKing|talk]]) 22:37, September 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
::Speculation. We'll have to wait and see though from what Madara siad in 602, Obito may have awakened it just before the cave in...--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 11:45, September 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
==Eternal's Power==
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I hate to admit it but I think I finally agree with you on something and that something being this. [[User:Munchvtec|Munchvtec]] ([[User talk:Munchvtec|talk]]) 12:27, June 6, 2014 (UTC)
Sorry if I forgot something, or if I'm ignorant (lack of knowledge), but all I know is that with the "Eternal" Mankekyō, the user can't suffer the blindness of its normal power, however is just that the power it grants, or have something more that I don't know? [[User:MaskedManMadara|MaskedManMadara]] ([[User talk:MaskedManMadara|talk]]) 21:45, September 21, 2012 (UTC)
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:Technically, yes. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|]]</sup> 12:54, June 6, 2014 (UTC)
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::Well, the "something bad will happen with repeated use" does bring to mind Tsunade's early comments on Rasenshuriken. However, that also means that EMS techniques are also technically not kinjutsu, since the user no longer goes blind from them right? [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 00:18, June 7, 2014 (UTC)
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:::There's no EMS-specific technique known tho. Techniques simply don't change status since the infobox should be timeless--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 10:27, June 7, 2014 (UTC)
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::::By EMS techniques, I mean MS techniques that we know have only been used by EMS, for example [[Blaze Release: Susanoo Kagutsuchi]], [[Blaze Release: Yasaka Magatama]], [[Tengai Shinsei]]. Stuff that was not used with regular MS. This would also exclude stuff that is reasonable to assume would be possible with regular MS, like [[Susanoo: Captive Slash]]. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 13:20, June 7, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::Yes, those aren't kinjutsu unless a MS user uses them and harms himself--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:38, June 7, 2014 (UTC)
   
There's also a new power, but unknown... presumably Rinnegan--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:33, September 21, 2012 (UTC)
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I thought we agreed that we don't label anything kinjutsu unless it is labeled as such in the series? After all, kinjutsu isn't a broad categorization for certain techniques, it is a specific, very much political label given to certain dangerous techniques by a village head. We're not about to go slapping that on the Mangekyō Sharingan techniques. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 16:33, June 7, 2014 (UTC)
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:What a nonsense you have said here. So for something to be x a village head first must label it so? Lol. So a suicide no jutsu won't be suicide no jutsu until some old fart in hat says so. Logic much. Not to mention we already list thing such as [[Casualty Puppet]] as Kinjutsu and I don't recall it having been mention in any of the episodes that any old fart did declare it as such--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:07, June 7, 2014 (UTC)
   
ok, thank you again :) [[User:MaskedManMadara|MaskedManMadara]] ([[User talk:MaskedManMadara|talk]]) 15:52, September 22, 2012 (UTC)
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Bump--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:57, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
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:Bump--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:04, June 16, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Unlock MS without gaining the third tomoe? ==
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== fallacy ==
   
In the latest chapter, Madara hints that Obito used his MS despite Obito only having two tomoe's. Should we add that to trivia? [[Special:Contributions/173.63.93.233|173.63.93.233]] ([[User talk:173.63.93.233|talk]]) 20:36, September 23, 2012 (UTC)BobBob
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"It was also awakened by Kakashi Hatake — a non-Uchiha" No, it wasn't. The manga made it clear that Sharingan = effect of special chakra on the optic nerve released by '''Uchiha''' brains. Kakashi isn't an Uchiha or part Uchiha to our knowledge. The reason why Kakashi's eye transformed was because of its connection to Obito's. Kakashi witnessing Rin's death and feeling loss was no different than what would be if Sakura killed Ino, she would get no Sharingan--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:13, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
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:Huh? What does the special chakra thing have to do with the Mangekyo Sharingan? • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 12:18, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
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::Since it has with Sharingan, so it does with Mangekyou, Tobirama's explanation covered it whole. "The deeper the darkness gets, the greater the power becomes" He also said that the special chakra is released upon witnessing loss of great love--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:30, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
   
* We don't know, or do we? ... is there a manga/databook page stating that a fully matured Sharingan is a requirement in order to progress further?
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::According to Tobirama, it's that peculiar chakra that's released from the Uchiha's brains and channeled through their optic nerves that brings about the change in their eyes. I believe Elveonora is right, as we witnessed just beforehand that Obito had some sort of link to his left eye, able to see what Kakashi was seeing, as he approached him. —「[[User Talk:SaiST|'''SaiST''']]」<sup>[[File:Mangekyō Sharingan Sasuke (Eternal).svg|15px|link=Special:Contributions/SaiST]]</sup> 12:31, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
* But Obito didn't have MS back then, emotion of great loss is required, or nope?
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:::But Tobirama's words, as you quoted, don't say anything about chakra. They say something about darkness. I mean, if it was about the chakra, Kakashi should've never been able to get the Mangekyo Sharingan, since he can't produce that chakra. That's why I conclude the chakra is needed to awake the Sharingan, but not to further evolve it. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 12:39, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:07, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
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::::The Uchiha's eyeballs are no different from that of an ordinary Narutoverse human, it's the brain chakra what makes them transform into Sharingan. Kakashi's darkness should have had no effect on Uchiha chakra in his eye, because it's not connected to it like in case of an Uchiha. If darkness could produce brain chakra in Kakashi, overwriting that of Obito then you would have a point--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:44, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
   
Wow, I never noticed he still had two tomoe. I don't think you can just skip the natural progression like that though, and what Madara said isn't definite. That kinda shoots down the whole "he used MS to escape the rubble thing" in my head. Any way, we can always wait and see no? The story is unfolding either way.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 00:03, September 24, 2012 (UTC)
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Eh, that's not exactly what I was saying. It's the brain chakra, yes. But Kakashi does not have that brain chakra. If it was the brain chakra that let's the eye evolve further, Kakashi would not have been able to do so, since again, he doesn't have that chakra. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|]]</sup> 12:48, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
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:That's the very point, therefore he didn't evolve it.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:50, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
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::But he did, since as Tobirama stated, it's darkness that let's the eye become stronger. And Kakashi experienced darkness, didn't he? • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 12:52, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
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:::The darkness in Uchiha is effect of the brain chakra though--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:57, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
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:::: And why is the darkness in Uchiha brain any different in a non-psycho crazy's brain?--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 13:01, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::Because it's "magic" induced darkness?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:07, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
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::::::And why does that magic not exist in non-Uchiha with evil cursed eyes?--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 13:08, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::::It existed in Kakashi's eye, but not his brain--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:10, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
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::::::::So brain chakra is now just in the eye and the brain is just there for kicks and necessary body functions?--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 13:12, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
   
Answered in Chapter 606, Page 2. Obito (and Kakashi) didn't skip getting the 3rd tomoe. They got it first, and only then did their Sharingans evolve to Mangekyou, albeit in a matter of seconds. --[[User:lnite|lnite]]
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No you misunderstood. Brain chakra is what makes the Sharingan. The stronger the darkness, the stronger the brain chakra. This doesn't apply to Kakashi who doesn't have special brain chakra, so any darkness he experienced shouldn't have affected chakra in Obito's eye--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:15, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
   
I read a better translation and it read that he somehow slipped from under the rock as it was caving in, as in while it was still falling in he must of rolled over or moved himself just out of the way, he wasn't hinting at kamui or anything... [[Special:Contributions/173.66.119.89|173.66.119.89]] ([[User talk:173.66.119.89|talk]]) 06:18, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
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:And yet, we watched it did have an effect on the eye.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 13:18, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
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::Obito? Link to his left eye? —「[[User Talk:SaiST|'''SaiST''']]」<sup>[[File:Mangekyō Sharingan Sasuke (Eternal).svg|15px|link=Special:Contributions/SaiST]]</sup> 13:19, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
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:::This. We also saw Obito seeing through his eye in somebody else' skull--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:21, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
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::::/shrug sounds plausible.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 13:22, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Pair of Eyes' Connection ==
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The stronger the darkness, the stronger the brain chakra. - Where was that stated? • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 13:24, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
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:Source: Tobirama. "The deeper the darkness gets, the greater the visual prowess becomes"--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:30, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
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::Yep. But where was it stated that the brain chakra gets stronger from the darkness? • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 13:32, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Visual prowess = power of Sharingan, Sharingan exists because of brain charka. So for it to become stronger, chakra must become stronger, which becomes stronger from darkness--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:34, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
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::::The Sharingan's creation is because of chakra, becoming stronger is not. That was never stated and Kakashi's case disproves your theory. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 13:49, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::Isn't that a simple deduction rather than theory? Darkness makes the brain release chakra, more darkness releases more/stronger chakra. Darkness doesn't make Kakashi's brain release anything. I insist the eye transformed due to its magical connection to the other eye rather than Kakashi.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 14:14, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
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::::::Wouldn't that mean Kakashi wouldn't have the ability to turn it on or off if he had no real connection to it? I mean we know he can't turn off the regular Sharingan, but he can turn on or off the Mangekyo.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 14:16, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
   
In the latest chapter, Obito was able to remote see what his other eye, which Kakashi had, seen. Was it added into the page yet? --[[User:VolteMetalic|VolteMetalic]] ([[User talk:VolteMetalic|talk]]) 10:23, October 9, 2012 (UTC)
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0_o /shrugs, Kishi crack. So if further brain chakra isn't required after the initial activation (which would explain why transplants continue to work) how can the Uchiha turn off the Sharingan then? Presumably by severing the chakra flow, but then why do transplants work?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 14:24, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
:[[Sharingan#Receiving the Sharingan]].--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 10:34, October 9, 2012 (UTC)
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: There is a huge hole in your argument, Elve. Tobirama says that this "chakra" affects the optic nerve, which brings about the Sharingan. The normal Sharingan. Obito's chakra cannot transcend his body and affect Kakashi's optic nerve. Its obvious that the powerful emotion of losing someone close to you is what awakens the Mangekyō Sharingan. That's what has always been told to us, and remains true even after Tobirama's explanation, which pertains to the normal Sharingan. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Sasuke's Rinnegan (Purple).svg|20px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 16:21, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
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::"Obito's chakra cannot transcend his body and affect Kakashi's optic nerve" Of course it can't, it's only his sight that can (sarcasm)--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:05, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
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::: And your asinine reasoning that Tobirama's statement about a normal Sharingan, somehow applying to a Mangekyō Sharingan (despite the fact that we've known the mechanics behind that since Part I) is any better? ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Sasuke's Rinnegan (Purple).svg|20px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 00:42, July 1, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Question? ==
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== Overview ==
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Just wondering if anyone would be opposed to me altering the Overview a bit to better reflect the Mangekyō Sharingan's heightened Eye of Insight, and Eye of Illusion... And subsequently link the latter to their potential to subjugate the tailed beasts. Thought it would be nice to mention, as the dōojutsu is initially comprised of these two aspects... Ah, but then, that may also raise the issue of whether or not most here agree that the Mangekyō Sharingan affords superior perceptive capabilities before it's ''"light"'' is sealed. —「[[User Talk:SaiST|'''SaiST''']]」<sup>[[File:Mangekyō Sharingan Sasuke (Eternal).svg|15px|link=Special:Contributions/SaiST]]</sup> 16:13, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
   
Should it be noted that [[Tobi]] and [[Kakashi Hatake]] are the youngest people to unlock the Mongekyō Sharingan? Or are they not? [[User:Zelwolf|Zelwolf]] ([[User talk:Zelwolf|talk]]) 20:16, October 10, 2012 (UTC)Zelwolf
 
   
They are, but that's less than trivial I guess.
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== Obito's weird eyes ==
EDIT: there might have been younger before them, so...--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 20:21, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
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Can't help but notice that Obito's Mangekyō Sharingan has finally gained the ability to bleed after regaining the one Kakashi had. Kakashi's eye used to bleed when he used Kamui, but Obito's never did. Why the sudden change? It just seems weird... still waiting for an Obito Susanoo too. --[[User:Atrix471|Atrix471]] ([[User talk:Atrix471|talk]]) 19:26, July 15, 2014 (UTC)
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:Because the Kamui used to open the holes between Kaguya's dimensions put a hell of a strain on Obito's eyes, since those aren't his own dimensions and they're far away from each other. SO that was a whole other feat than simply opening the Kamui dimension. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 19:37, July 15, 2014 (UTC)
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::Still, he '''constantly''' used his lone eye before, without ANY strain. Weird that he suddenly exhibits normal patterns associated with the eyes. It'd be different if it was only the eye Kakashi possessed that was bleeding, because that eye was prone to bleeding after use, but both? I just found it strange, is all. --[[User:Atrix471|Atrix471]] ([[User talk:Atrix471|talk]]) 19:40, July 15, 2014 (UTC)
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:::What Seel said. Obito's Kamui wasn't supposed to be used to open other dimensions besides its own one. Opening portals to completely unrelated dimensions required much more chakra, and as such Obito's eyes were extremely strained to the point of bleeding.--[[File:Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna.svg|15px]] [[User:JOA20|'''JOA''']][[User talk:JOA20|''20'']] 19:40, July 15, 2014 (UTC)
  +
::::You can compare it to opening a locked door: If you have the key because it's your own door, it's easy. But if you need to use a pick, it's harder. Or so. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 19:44, July 15, 2014 (UTC)
  +
:::::They bleed from the sheer amount of chakra necessary to accomplish the task. Kakashi's Sharingan bled too only once he overused it.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:54, July 15, 2014 (UTC)
   
Oh, okay. I mean it's not like a really needed to know thing for the story line [[User:Zelwolf|Zelwolf]] ([[User talk:Zelwolf|talk]]) 20:22, October 10, 2012 (UTC)Zelwolf
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== Madara and Izuna ==
   
Itachi was 12 when he awakened his Mangekyo Sharingan, making him the youngest known BUT Kakashi was either 9 or 11 when he awakened his. Obito awakened his at 13 and then Sasuke awakened his at 16. [[Special:Contributions/173.66.119.89|173.66.119.89]] ([[User talk:173.66.119.89|talk]]) 06:15, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
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Was it actually stated or shown in manga that the two killed their respective buddies or was that forest ambush murder scene only anime-only addition?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:39, August 1, 2014 (UTC)
  +
:While I assume forest murder scene is anime only, the actual method of awakening was never stated and likely never will. So go with the forest murder.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 21:50, August 1, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Obito's MS usage without strain ==
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== Straight Tomoe ==
  +
Sasuke and Madara have EMS, they have their brothers eyes.. which means their brothers were the only two people with the Straight Tomoe and now they have it. [[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] ([[User talk:ItachiWasAHero|talk]]) 10:07, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
  +
:Speculation. Madara stated that only he and Sasuke had awakened the Straight Tomoe. Which may mean that Straight Tomoe is just another name for EMS. Also, the name "Straight Tomoe" doesn't define Itachi's Mangekyō at all, at best Sasuke and Izuna's Mangekyō since it's about symmetrical shape. And yet, Madara calls his own EMS (which has no symmetry) a Straight Tomoe.--[[File:Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna.svg|15px]] [[User:JOA20|'''JOA''']][[User talk:JOA20|''20'']] 10:10, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
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::Even that is speculation. We don't know what straight tomoe are or if Madara talked about his and Sasuke's MS or eternal MS. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 10:16, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
  +
:::I'm pretty sure 'straight tomoe' refers to the way the donor's Mangekyō was incorporated into their own. Itachi's curved tomoe became three straight tomoe in Sasuke's eternal variant, and while Izuna's wasn't necessarily curved, it became three completely straight bars on the edges of Madara's circular Mangekyō. That's my take on it. --[[User:Atrix471|Atrix471]] ([[User talk:Atrix471|talk]]) 10:43, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
   
Obito suffers no strain refrainlessly using MS due to Hashirama's DNA implanted on him. This is no speculation and I am not forum-ing. Isn't it true that Hashirama's DNA boosts/longevizes the Sharingan power? It's true for Danzo and Obito using Inazagi and also for the resurrected Madara. Isn't it now a fact that Obito has his DNA? Isn't Obito the only one we've seen using the MS so extensively without apparent side effects? Just making a logical deduction here. I believe we will see this more formally explained in the series pretty soon, as only recently Kakashi was revealed to suffer Sharingan strain for extended usage of MS and soon after that Obito was revealed to carry Hashirama's DNA.--[[User:Holyn|Holyn]] ([[User talk:Holyn|talk]]) 17:14, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
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I think Atrix is right. [[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] ([[User talk:ItachiWasAHero|talk]]) 16:28, August 9, 2014 (UTC)
:And when it is announced formally, it will be reflected on the wikia, not before.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 17:16, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
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:Well, as much as I appreciate the support, it's still speculation unfortunately. --[[User:Atrix471|Atrix471]] ([[User talk:Atrix471|talk]]) 21:13, August 9, 2014 (UTC)
   
Obito can use his MS without strain because he has Senju DNA within him. Same as how Danzo was able to use Shisui's Kotoamatsukami in somewhat of a succession, whereas Itachi could only activate it after another decade.{{unsigned|75.172.133.219}}
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== Kakashi gaining Susanoo ==
:And when it is announced formally, it will be reflected on the wikia, not before.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 11:29, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
==Special Ninjutsu==
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It seems that the reason Kakashi got Susanoo isn't just because he got both eyes but because he also received the power of the 6 paths which improved the eyes' power; shouldn't that also be added in to all the pages with Kakashi's new power?--[[User:Deathmailrock|Deathmailrock]] ([[User talk:Deathmailrock|talk]]) 19:41, August 20, 2014 (UTC)
It is observed whoever awakens the Mangekyo Sharingan sometimes receive a special exclusive jutsu as seen with Obito's(Kamui) and Shisui's(Kotamatsukami) case. [[Special:Contributions/180.194.241.57|180.194.241.57]] ([[User talk:180.194.241.57|talk]]) 03:09, October 28, 2012 (UTC)
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:Hmm... Kakashi did confirm that the Rikudou's power did make his eyes stronger (I always wondered why Kakashi was instantly able to conjure up a PS and where he got the chakra reserves from to do so, but the Six paths power can do anything like Naruto said, so it makes sense). Plus the Six paths power could be the one with the "fixed time limit" Obito was talking about, so... yea, whateva. [[User:WindStar7125|<font color="blue">'''''WindStar7125'''''</font>]] [[File:WindStar7125 Task.svg|20px|link=User:WindStar7125]] [[User talk:WindStar7125|<sup>(Talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/WindStar7125|<sub>(Contributions)</sub>]] 19:45, August 20, 2014 (UTC)
   
==Non-original eyes==
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==Infobox Error==
Can someone use their mangekyou without their original eyes (sharingan)? And if them implanted two different eyes (sharingan) with the ability of mangekyou, they will have the to differents? please, I know that this is not forum and don't interpret as speculation without answer my question first. [[User:MaskedManMadara|MaskedManMadara]] ([[User talk:MaskedManMadara|talk]]) 15:07, November 12, 2012 (UTC)
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Hey, guys... This might be just me, I see something called "Thread: Sasuke Uchiha" in the infobox. Another glitch, I suppose. Can someone correct this?--'''[[User:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#FBEC5D;">Ninja</span>]][[User talk:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#87CEFA;">Sheik</span>]]''' 19:54, August 30, 2014 (UTC)
:Your question would be better posed [http://naruto.answers.wikia.com here].--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 15:22, November 12, 2012 (UTC)
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:I don't see it--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:56, August 30, 2014 (UTC)
  +
::I saw it once, because some idiot moved Sasuke's page to Thread:Sasuke Uchiha, but I just pushed the Null Edit button and it was gone.--[[File:Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna.svg|15px]] [[User:JOA20|'''JOA''']][[User talk:JOA20|''20'']] 20:05, August 30, 2014 (UTC)
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:::What JOA20 said. Just perform a null edit to update the SMW cache. --[[User:SuperSajuuk|SuperSajuuk]] <sup><small>[[User talk:SuperSajuuk|Talk Page]] | [[User:SuperSajuuk/Images|My Image Uploads]] | [[User:SuperSajuuk/Tabber Code|Tabber Code]] | [http://youtube.com/LPSajuuk Channel]</small></sup> 20:23, August 30, 2014 (UTC)
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::::Ah, it's gone. I didn't even have to use that null edit thing. I don't even know what the heck it is, anyway. ^_^; I never had to use it before. Well, whatever, it's fixed now.--'''[[User:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#FBEC5D;">Ninja</span>]][[User talk:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#87CEFA;">Sheik</span>]]''' 03:29, August 31, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Tailed Beast Control ==
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== Sasuke wielding Itachi's eyes. ==
   
The Mangekyō Sharingan is hot specifically needed to control the tailed beasts, it merely enhances the user's dōjutsu power. Sasuke himself was able to control Kurama in Naruto to an extent, suppressing its chakra, with only his standard Sharingan. Furthermore, Obito told Sasuke that all Uchiha can potentially control the tailed beasts, but mentioned nothing about the Mangekyō Sharingan. Control for the tailed beasts should be removed from the Mangekyō Sharingan page and moved to the Sharingan page. Steveo920, December 17,2012, 21:55
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While it has been argued in the past whether or not Sasuke has Tsukuyomi, evidence strongly suggests that he does. As seen with Obito's left Kamui from Madara, when an Uchiha transplants a Mangekyo eye into them, they add all the said eye's techniques. Likewise, Sasuke, despite having Itachi's eyes, can still use his original arsenal of techniques from his original eyes. That being said, Sasuke would indeed have Itachi's Tsukuyomi and Yasaka Magatama. Hence, we should add those two techniques to Sasuke's infobox.—[[User:Steveo920|Steveo920]] [[User talk:Steveo920|(Talk)]] 23:57, September 16, 2014
:Still doesn't change the fact that it '''can''' be used for controlling it. {{User:UltimateSupreme/SigCode|03:27 UTC|Tuesday|18 December 2012}}
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:I agree with this reasoning, but shrugs, others don't I guess.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 09:50, September 17, 2014 (UTC)
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::Me too, but the thing is, we've never seen those techniques and he was never even hinted at having them. Your reasoning is true, but it's "outside reasoning", so to speak. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 10:55, September 17, 2014 (UTC)
== A MS User.. ==
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:::I don't know what you mean by "outside reasoning", but just because he hasn't shown it doesn't mean he doesn't have it, similar to how Obito never used Animal Path, but be we know he did have it.—[[User:Steveo920|Steveo920]] [[User talk:Steveo920|(Talk)]] 9:37, September 17, 2014
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::::We know he did because Kabuto confirmed that he can use it to read Yamato's mind. Was that the Animal Path? Can't remember. That's "inside reasoning": Using statements from the manga, even though a demonstration of the technique wasn't shown. We have no statements regarding Sasuke's Tsukuyomi, even though for us outside the manga, the readers, it seems logical. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 13:45, September 17, 2014 (UTC)
Can Switch Between Sharingan.. Mangekyo Sharingan, and Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan as seen in the end of the Kabuto vs Uchiha bros fight from Sasuke, and in the latest chapter [[Special:Contributions/173.66.119.89|173.66.119.89]] ([[User talk:173.66.119.89|talk]]) 09:45, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
: Itachi vs Kakashi first battle... Not sure about EMS though--'''~ [[User:UltimateSupreme|<span style="font-family:chiller; font-size:1.5em; color:blue;">Ultimate</span>]][[User talk:UltimateSupreme|<span style="color:#EE2C2C; font-family:chiller; font-size:1.5em;">Supreme</span>]]''' 09:47, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
:That panel could very well be qan art error. I believe there has been at least one instance of Madara's wood clones being drawn with his Mangekyo despite having the Eternal Mangekyo on other panels.--[[User:BeyondRed|BeyondRed]] ([[User talk:BeyondRed|talk]]) 10:09, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
BUT, Sasuke has been shown like this ever since the Kabuto vs Uchiha Bros battle... but it does stand for better reasoning that it has to be an art error.. [[Special:Contributions/173.66.119.89|173.66.119.89]] ([[User talk:173.66.119.89|talk]]) 13:56, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
:The Kabuto vs Uchiha Bros. example was part of a flashback. Notice the black around the panels, and Sasuke's open collar. [[User:SaiST|SaiST]] ([[User talk:SaiST|talk]]) 02:28, February 6, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Wait for volume release/re-release--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:23, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Bringing up this issue again. 620 is the second chapter in a row where Sasuke has a normal MS rather than his EMS. What do we do about it? ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 04:49, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
:Without more to go on I have to believe it's an art error. [[User:Arrancar79|Arrancar79]] ([[User talk:Arrancar79|talk]]) 05:15, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
 
:: Kishi is good about correcting that stuff though. I've never seen an art error that goes on into multiple consecutive chapters. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 05:17, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::Right. Doesn't look like an art error.--'''~ [[User:UltimateSupreme|<span style="color:blue;">Ultimate</span>]][[User talk:UltimateSupreme|<span style="color:#EE2C2C;">Supreme</span>]]''' 05:42, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
About to play captain obvious in here, it's logical that EMS users still can access their "original" final Susanoo, thus their own MS as well? ;D--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:53, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
I don't like it, but it's definitely a possibility.. but Kishi can make mistakes sometimes too, take Chapter 599 with Minato's Hokage statue for example. that's an error well beyond the ridiculousness of these past few chapters. I think we should wait and see what the re-release looks like. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 21:14, February 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
If I remember correctly, Madara's MS instead of EMS against Onoki wasn't fixed in a re-release--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:26, February 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
It would make sense only if was actually not a mistake. I don't think Kishi is that of a hurry... It's probably that Sasuke wants to hide his full power, doesn't he do a lot of that normally?
 
[[Special:Contributions/96.25.226.21|96.25.226.21]] ([[User talk:96.25.226.21|talk]]) 11:49, February 16, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
== Is the Eternal MS....eternal? ==
 
 
Sorry, but I am not sure anymore. After seeing Sasuke's Eternal Mangekyo sharigan bleed when fighting Kabuto, I am doubting if the EMS is actually permanent. One could say it just bleeds, but I always thought of the bleeding eye as a sign of the eye going blind. So is the EMS just a stronger version of the MS, or what?--{{unsigned|65.188.41.37}}
 
:The bleeding comes from the strain the techniques puts on the eye. It's never been said the bleeding was a sign of the eye deteriorating; loss of sight is.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 13:01, March 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
The Amaterasu fire actually comes out of the eye, it makes it bleed. After his first day of using MS, Sasuke noticed loss of sight, but while fighting Kabuto, he spammed things and his sight doesn't appear to be any worsened by now since the transplant--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 14:40, March 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Okay. Thanks for the clear up guys. (And if I knew how to sign the thing, I would have. I don't think I have an account){{unsigned|}}
 
 
You don't need an account to sign your post, just leave 4x ~ after your comment--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:05, March 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Got it. But err, is it known that the EMS known to last forever? Or is this still an assumption? (Also, and I know it is miniscule, but can we get rid of the use of "an" before the word "Uchiha"? I know the English language is annoying, but in the same way you would say "An honest man" Or "A URL" shouldn't it be "A Uchiha"? [[Special:Contributions/65.188.41.37|65.188.41.37]] ([[User talk:65.188.41.37|talk]]) 18:11, March 30, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Or is it ooo-chi-ha instead of yooo-chi--ha? [[Special:Contributions/65.188.41.37|65.188.41.37]] ([[User talk:65.188.41.37|talk]]) 18:12, March 30, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
nobody cares about that here you buffon, it is known omfg how would they still be able to use their eyes so much eh?? an you can't be serious about the language part {{unsigned|79.223.95.229}}
 
 
You should watch out for how you refer to other people. His (or her, I don't know) question is valid, though simply reading the article should answer that, we write them for a reason. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 18:36, March 30, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Buffon, eh? Well, the fact that it doesn't go blind doesn't seem to be in this article. The only thing that kinda looks like it is the phrase "permanently restores". Wouldn't saying that the eye cannot go blind make more sense or be a bit more clear? And wouldn't you at least understand someone's confusion when they see the EMS bleed? I know I thought that to be a sign that the eye is going blind, and I am sure others may have thought so. Not only that but the EMS hasn't been see much in the anime nor manga, so saying "how would they still be able to use their eyes so much eh??" doesn't make any sense. [[Special:Contributions/65.188.41.37|65.188.41.37]] ([[User talk:65.188.41.37|talk]]) 17:45, March 31, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
I'm pretty sure most of us didn't expect Sasuke being able to use his regular MS either. So excuse me for having some bloody questions. [[Special:Contributions/65.188.41.37|65.188.41.37]] ([[User talk:65.188.41.37|talk]]) 17:47, March 31, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
No once accuses you for having such question, it's more valid than the one with "a/an" lol. The Sharingan blindness has nothing to do with physical damage done to the eye, it has been specifically stated to stem from the eye "loosing light" (whatever that means) and sealing itself, I dare to assume it works in a similar way to [[Hyuga branch family curse seal]] but in a natural way (notice how Sharingan seals itself off after using Izanagi for example) Logically, changing the wielder of a blind eye wouldn't repair the damage, so this confirms it. While the strain from using MS techniques is an actual damage to the blood vessels in the eye. So in short, yes, eternal mangekyou is eternal, but it's user can still become blind in a real-world way like the eye getting destroyed, or cataract, glaucoma or other diseases etc.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 18:27, March 31, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
The techniques and powers of the MS are eternal In a sense the MS can supports Itself while having a user, but yes of course the eye Is still vulnerable to things such as blood loss and strain etc but It may activate a protections seal of some sort i don't know, but I hope myself and others have helped--<span style="color:CornflowerBlue;">[[User:Jmootam1999]][[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]]</span><span style="color:Indigo;">[[User talk:Jmootam1999|Loves Naruto]]</span> 18:34, March 31, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
The blood loss thing is making it unnecessarily confusing.... And excuse my doubt, Elveonora, but I don't think that is true. I don't think EMS would only stay eternal as long as amaterasu or any other damaging eye techniques (and I would say that being nearly all of them) isn't used..Sounds kinda weird and kinda defeats the purpose, wouldn't you say? Even if the only techinique that could make the eye blind is Amaterasu, it seems a bit off. I don't know, whatever. I guess we will see in the future. [[Special:Contributions/65.188.41.37|65.188.41.37]] ([[User talk:65.188.41.37|talk]]) 19:11, March 31, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
That's not what I said. The blood stems from there being pressure on blood vessels, it doesn't make the eye blind in itself. As I said, the blindness from over-usage is more magical/mystical it would appear--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:35, March 31, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
How are you confused because [[Amaterasu]] Is a Jutsu which requires alot of focus and [[Chakra]] to work In the eye, therefore tiring the chakra points In
 
that area causing strain do you understand now --
 
<span style="padding-left:6px; background-color:Gold; border:6px dotted yellow;{{border-radius|20em 20em 20em 20em}}">[[File:Nature_Icon_Yin–Yang.svg|0x15px]][[User:Jmootam1999|<span style= "font-size:15px; font-family: Bauhaus 93;">'''Jmootam1999'''</span>]][[File:Nature_Icon_Yin–Yang.svg|0x15px]]</span> 20:10, March 31, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Oh, so the pain or strain the eye comes with is not synonymous with it getting blind/losing its light? Seems rather strange but I guess it is kinda like Inzanami/gi. Okay, I get it now. Sorry and thanks everyone. I hope you did in some way understand how confusion could be engedered from all that... [[Special:Contributions/65.188.41.37|65.188.41.37]] ([[User talk:65.188.41.37|talk]]) 20:39, March 31, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
I understand :) --
 
<span style="padding-left:6px; background-color:Gold; border:6px dotted yellow;{{border-radius|20em 20em 20em 20em}}">[[File:Nature_Icon_Yin–Yang.svg|0x15px]][[User:Jmootam1999|<span style= "font-size:15px; font-family: Bauhaus 93;">'''Jmootam1999'''</span>]][[File:Nature_Icon_Yin–Yang.svg|0x15px]]</span> 20:41, March 31, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
== Obito's fire jutsu ==
 
 
It should be removed from the jutsu box since it's a jutsu in its own right that can potentially be combined with Kamui. It's not a MS jutsu though.--[[User:Reliops|Reliops]] ([[User talk:Reliops|talk]]) 22:16, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
 
:If it was a Jutsu on its own it wouldn't be ''this'' Jutsu, but a simple Gōkakyu. The spinning is what makes this Jutsu to what it is. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 22:26, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
 
::Well, but he did its namesake without Kamui like a generic Katon--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:48, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Obito used the very same technique in chapter 628 without using Kamui. They are clearly two separate jutsu that can be used in tandem.--[[User:Reliops|Reliops]] ([[User talk:Reliops|talk]]) 01:48, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Obito's Blast Wave Wild Dance is showing up due to a bug. When the page was first made, for some reason, it appeared twice in the list. After we saw Obito using it without Kamui's assistance, it was no longer considered a kekkei genkai technique, but only one of the links vanished. We've had that sort of trouble before. Back when the jinchūriki were first named in the artbook, there was a page for Han's steam-based ninjutsu. For some reason, that appeared three times in any infobox that would list it. Butsuma for example, debuts twice in the infobox for the chapter he debuts in. Simant has suggested this is due to some changes to the semantic data structure before and after the last update, the data and the data interpreter speak two different dialects, so to speak (pun not intended). [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 19:06, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
 
:He did use it without Kamui? Where? oO [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 19:11, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
 
::He did, unless it was a mistranslation. If it wasn't then it's noteworthy that the name and appearance fit more when sued with Kamui ._.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:13, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::He used it without Kamui in the opening pages of chapter 628. You can clearly see that there are no Kamui distortions. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 20:03, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
 
::::The spiraling flames on said page are kind of indicative of Kamui's usage. [[User:SaiST|SaiST]] ([[User talk:SaiST|talk]]) 22:54, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
:::::The fire jutsu that Obito uses do spin he just uses Kamui to giv it an increase in range and power.[[User:Whiteraven1|Whiteraven1]] ([[User talk:Whiteraven1|talk]]) 22:59, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
 
::::::I'd say the ''"range and power"'' were clearly in another league compared to when he first used the technique. Just because we don't see any lines indicating Kamui's distortion on that particular panel, doesn't mean it wasn't being utilized to bring about that result. I believe it would be safer to assume that it '''was''' until we see something more definitive indicating otherwise. [[User:SaiST|SaiST]] ([[User talk:SaiST|talk]]) 23:06, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
 
Kishimoto has never hesitated to draw Kamui's lines to indicate its use, that's not something time consuming like drawing hand seals. There wasn't even focus on the eye. Also, is it so other-wordly that maybe the flames might be able to spiral by themselves? Regarding the size, I'd like to remind everyone that Obito does have Hashirama's cells, giving him a great chakra pool with which to make the technique powerful. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 00:42, June 4, 2013 (UTC)
 

Latest revision as of 13:45, September 17, 2014

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Indra Edit

The second Sharingan user, first known Mangekyo user and first known Susanoo user, his spiral eye was red, it was a Mangekyo Sharingan. So its color needs to be changed and added here. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 10:25, March 26, 2014 (UTC)

Really? We know nothing about Indra's prowess. His eye was first shown as a spiral-patterned one, and now it seems he had the Sharingan. I think we'd better wait for further info. About the Mangekyō, Susanoo, Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu thing, Ashura had something almost identical to Naruto's Tailed Beast Mode, but we don't list him as a jinchūriki or as a Nine-Tails Chakra Mode user, do we? Is it really that bothersome to wait a couple weeks?--JOA20 (talk) 21:10, March 26, 2014 (UTC)

"handful" Edit

Madara, Izuna, Obito, Shisui, Itachi, Sasuke. That is 6 known to have awakened it, Indra was an Otsutsuki not an Uchiha and of course Kakashi doesn't count. So can 6 people really be considered a handful?? ItachiWasAHero (talk) 17:05, April 6, 2014 (UTC)

Even with the others included, it's not like adding more would be considered a handful compared to less. Though as I understand i, handful is around 1-5, so with six, I dunno, I guess if you can find a better word, like several maybe? --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 17:43, April 6, 2014 (UTC)

Several is better to use, as the definition of it is "More than two, but not many" so I will change it. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 18:15, April 6, 2014 (UTC)

Handful I guess is meant more like a percentage, from all the hundreds Uchiha since Madara, only a "handful" had the Mangekyou.--Elveonora (talk) 18:41, April 6, 2014 (UTC)

Yes, six people can be considered a "handful" relative to a clan that has had hundreds of people come and go throughout the generations. There is no specific range of quantity that defines the term; it is used to define a select, relatively small number of things, or people, compared to a much larger whole.

The change has already been made, and it honestly isn't that big of a deal. Just sayin', it didn't have to be made in the first place. —「SaiSTMangekyō Sharingan Sasuke (Eternal) 18:53, April 6, 2014 (UTC)

Did Madara really talk about the Mangekyō? Edit

Did madara really talk about the Mangekyō Sharingan when me mentioned "only he and Sasuke have the "Straight Tomoe""? In the translations I have read he simply says Sharingan. Not that I would know what was meant by calling their sharingans straight, but then again, I wouldn't really call Madara's Mangekyō straight.
Mangekyō Sharingan Madara

--Cosmikaze (talk) 20:47, April 27, 2014 (UTC)

Madara stated that Sasuke's Eternal Mangekyō had the Straight Swirl. Madara stated that Sasuke had the same Straight Swirl as him. So: Madara's Eternal Mangekyō had the Straight Swirl. How, I actually have no idea.--JOA20 (talk) 20:49, April 27, 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, I figured that might be what he was talking about, but I just find it strange that he takes credit for the Mangekyō Izuna awakened. Either way I just wanted to make sure if the manga actually specified Mangekyō, since no translation I have found does so --Cosmikaze (talk) 21:02, April 27, 2014 (UTC)
Nevermind, just read chapter 657. --Cosmikaze (talk) 21:15, April 27, 2014 (UTC)

this may sound weird, but Edit

Aren't its techniques technically Kinjutsu? Since they harm the user and all--Elveonora (talk) 12:24, June 6, 2014 (UTC)

I hate to admit it but I think I finally agree with you on something and that something being this. Munchvtec (talk) 12:27, June 6, 2014 (UTC)

Technically, yes. • Seelentau 愛 12:54, June 6, 2014 (UTC)
Well, the "something bad will happen with repeated use" does bring to mind Tsunade's early comments on Rasenshuriken. However, that also means that EMS techniques are also technically not kinjutsu, since the user no longer goes blind from them right? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:18, June 7, 2014 (UTC)
There's no EMS-specific technique known tho. Techniques simply don't change status since the infobox should be timeless--Elveonora (talk) 10:27, June 7, 2014 (UTC)
By EMS techniques, I mean MS techniques that we know have only been used by EMS, for example Blaze Release: Susanoo Kagutsuchi, Blaze Release: Yasaka Magatama, Tengai Shinsei. Stuff that was not used with regular MS. This would also exclude stuff that is reasonable to assume would be possible with regular MS, like Susanoo: Captive Slash. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 13:20, June 7, 2014 (UTC)
Yes, those aren't kinjutsu unless a MS user uses them and harms himself--Elveonora (talk) 13:38, June 7, 2014 (UTC)

I thought we agreed that we don't label anything kinjutsu unless it is labeled as such in the series? After all, kinjutsu isn't a broad categorization for certain techniques, it is a specific, very much political label given to certain dangerous techniques by a village head. We're not about to go slapping that on the Mangekyō Sharingan techniques. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 16:33, June 7, 2014 (UTC)

What a nonsense you have said here. So for something to be x a village head first must label it so? Lol. So a suicide no jutsu won't be suicide no jutsu until some old fart in hat says so. Logic much. Not to mention we already list thing such as Casualty Puppet as Kinjutsu and I don't recall it having been mention in any of the episodes that any old fart did declare it as such--Elveonora (talk) 17:07, June 7, 2014 (UTC)

Bump--Elveonora (talk) 12:57, June 14, 2014 (UTC)

Bump--Elveonora (talk) 13:04, June 16, 2014 (UTC)

fallacy Edit

"It was also awakened by Kakashi Hatake — a non-Uchiha" No, it wasn't. The manga made it clear that Sharingan = effect of special chakra on the optic nerve released by Uchiha brains. Kakashi isn't an Uchiha or part Uchiha to our knowledge. The reason why Kakashi's eye transformed was because of its connection to Obito's. Kakashi witnessing Rin's death and feeling loss was no different than what would be if Sakura killed Ino, she would get no Sharingan--Elveonora (talk) 12:13, June 30, 2014 (UTC)

Huh? What does the special chakra thing have to do with the Mangekyo Sharingan? • Seelentau 愛 12:18, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
Since it has with Sharingan, so it does with Mangekyou, Tobirama's explanation covered it whole. "The deeper the darkness gets, the greater the power becomes" He also said that the special chakra is released upon witnessing loss of great love--Elveonora (talk) 12:30, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
According to Tobirama, it's that peculiar chakra that's released from the Uchiha's brains and channeled through their optic nerves that brings about the change in their eyes. I believe Elveonora is right, as we witnessed just beforehand that Obito had some sort of link to his left eye, able to see what Kakashi was seeing, as he approached him. —「SaiSTMangekyō Sharingan Sasuke (Eternal) 12:31, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
But Tobirama's words, as you quoted, don't say anything about chakra. They say something about darkness. I mean, if it was about the chakra, Kakashi should've never been able to get the Mangekyo Sharingan, since he can't produce that chakra. That's why I conclude the chakra is needed to awake the Sharingan, but not to further evolve it. • Seelentau 愛 12:39, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
The Uchiha's eyeballs are no different from that of an ordinary Narutoverse human, it's the brain chakra what makes them transform into Sharingan. Kakashi's darkness should have had no effect on Uchiha chakra in his eye, because it's not connected to it like in case of an Uchiha. If darkness could produce brain chakra in Kakashi, overwriting that of Obito then you would have a point--Elveonora (talk) 12:44, June 30, 2014 (UTC)

Eh, that's not exactly what I was saying. It's the brain chakra, yes. But Kakashi does not have that brain chakra. If it was the brain chakra that let's the eye evolve further, Kakashi would not have been able to do so, since again, he doesn't have that chakra. • Seelentau 愛 12:48, June 30, 2014 (UTC)

That's the very point, therefore he didn't evolve it.--Elveonora (talk) 12:50, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
But he did, since as Tobirama stated, it's darkness that let's the eye become stronger. And Kakashi experienced darkness, didn't he? • Seelentau 愛 12:52, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
The darkness in Uchiha is effect of the brain chakra though--Elveonora (talk) 12:57, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
And why is the darkness in Uchiha brain any different in a non-psycho crazy's brain?--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 13:01, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
Because it's "magic" induced darkness?--Elveonora (talk) 13:07, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
And why does that magic not exist in non-Uchiha with evil cursed eyes?--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 13:08, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
It existed in Kakashi's eye, but not his brain--Elveonora (talk) 13:10, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
So brain chakra is now just in the eye and the brain is just there for kicks and necessary body functions?--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 13:12, June 30, 2014 (UTC)

No you misunderstood. Brain chakra is what makes the Sharingan. The stronger the darkness, the stronger the brain chakra. This doesn't apply to Kakashi who doesn't have special brain chakra, so any darkness he experienced shouldn't have affected chakra in Obito's eye--Elveonora (talk) 13:15, June 30, 2014 (UTC)

And yet, we watched it did have an effect on the eye.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 13:18, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
Obito? Link to his left eye? —「SaiSTMangekyō Sharingan Sasuke (Eternal) 13:19, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
This. We also saw Obito seeing through his eye in somebody else' skull--Elveonora (talk) 13:21, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
/shrug sounds plausible.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 13:22, June 30, 2014 (UTC)

The stronger the darkness, the stronger the brain chakra. - Where was that stated? • Seelentau 愛 13:24, June 30, 2014 (UTC)

Source: Tobirama. "The deeper the darkness gets, the greater the visual prowess becomes"--Elveonora (talk) 13:30, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
Yep. But where was it stated that the brain chakra gets stronger from the darkness? • Seelentau 愛 13:32, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
Visual prowess = power of Sharingan, Sharingan exists because of brain charka. So for it to become stronger, chakra must become stronger, which becomes stronger from darkness--Elveonora (talk) 13:34, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
The Sharingan's creation is because of chakra, becoming stronger is not. That was never stated and Kakashi's case disproves your theory. • Seelentau 愛 13:49, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
Isn't that a simple deduction rather than theory? Darkness makes the brain release chakra, more darkness releases more/stronger chakra. Darkness doesn't make Kakashi's brain release anything. I insist the eye transformed due to its magical connection to the other eye rather than Kakashi.--Elveonora (talk) 14:14, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
Wouldn't that mean Kakashi wouldn't have the ability to turn it on or off if he had no real connection to it? I mean we know he can't turn off the regular Sharingan, but he can turn on or off the Mangekyo.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 14:16, June 30, 2014 (UTC)

0_o /shrugs, Kishi crack. So if further brain chakra isn't required after the initial activation (which would explain why transplants continue to work) how can the Uchiha turn off the Sharingan then? Presumably by severing the chakra flow, but then why do transplants work?--Elveonora (talk) 14:24, June 30, 2014 (UTC)

There is a huge hole in your argument, Elve. Tobirama says that this "chakra" affects the optic nerve, which brings about the Sharingan. The normal Sharingan. Obito's chakra cannot transcend his body and affect Kakashi's optic nerve. Its obvious that the powerful emotion of losing someone close to you is what awakens the Mangekyō Sharingan. That's what has always been told to us, and remains true even after Tobirama's explanation, which pertains to the normal Sharingan. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 20px 16:21, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
"Obito's chakra cannot transcend his body and affect Kakashi's optic nerve" Of course it can't, it's only his sight that can (sarcasm)--Elveonora (talk) 17:05, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
And your asinine reasoning that Tobirama's statement about a normal Sharingan, somehow applying to a Mangekyō Sharingan (despite the fact that we've known the mechanics behind that since Part I) is any better? ~ Ten Tailed Fox 20px 00:42, July 1, 2014 (UTC)

Overview Edit

Just wondering if anyone would be opposed to me altering the Overview a bit to better reflect the Mangekyō Sharingan's heightened Eye of Insight, and Eye of Illusion... And subsequently link the latter to their potential to subjugate the tailed beasts. Thought it would be nice to mention, as the dōojutsu is initially comprised of these two aspects... Ah, but then, that may also raise the issue of whether or not most here agree that the Mangekyō Sharingan affords superior perceptive capabilities before it's "light" is sealed. —「SaiSTMangekyō Sharingan Sasuke (Eternal) 16:13, July 10, 2014 (UTC)


Obito's weird eyes Edit

Can't help but notice that Obito's Mangekyō Sharingan has finally gained the ability to bleed after regaining the one Kakashi had. Kakashi's eye used to bleed when he used Kamui, but Obito's never did. Why the sudden change? It just seems weird... still waiting for an Obito Susanoo too. --Atrix471 (talk) 19:26, July 15, 2014 (UTC)

Because the Kamui used to open the holes between Kaguya's dimensions put a hell of a strain on Obito's eyes, since those aren't his own dimensions and they're far away from each other. SO that was a whole other feat than simply opening the Kamui dimension. • Seelentau 愛 19:37, July 15, 2014 (UTC)
Still, he constantly used his lone eye before, without ANY strain. Weird that he suddenly exhibits normal patterns associated with the eyes. It'd be different if it was only the eye Kakashi possessed that was bleeding, because that eye was prone to bleeding after use, but both? I just found it strange, is all. --Atrix471 (talk) 19:40, July 15, 2014 (UTC)
What Seel said. Obito's Kamui wasn't supposed to be used to open other dimensions besides its own one. Opening portals to completely unrelated dimensions required much more chakra, and as such Obito's eyes were extremely strained to the point of bleeding.--Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna JOA20 19:40, July 15, 2014 (UTC)
You can compare it to opening a locked door: If you have the key because it's your own door, it's easy. But if you need to use a pick, it's harder. Or so. • Seelentau 愛 19:44, July 15, 2014 (UTC)
They bleed from the sheer amount of chakra necessary to accomplish the task. Kakashi's Sharingan bled too only once he overused it.--Elveonora (talk) 19:54, July 15, 2014 (UTC)

Madara and Izuna Edit

Was it actually stated or shown in manga that the two killed their respective buddies or was that forest ambush murder scene only anime-only addition?--Elveonora (talk) 21:39, August 1, 2014 (UTC)

While I assume forest murder scene is anime only, the actual method of awakening was never stated and likely never will. So go with the forest murder.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 21:50, August 1, 2014 (UTC)

Straight Tomoe Edit

Sasuke and Madara have EMS, they have their brothers eyes.. which means their brothers were the only two people with the Straight Tomoe and now they have it. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 10:07, August 7, 2014 (UTC)

Speculation. Madara stated that only he and Sasuke had awakened the Straight Tomoe. Which may mean that Straight Tomoe is just another name for EMS. Also, the name "Straight Tomoe" doesn't define Itachi's Mangekyō at all, at best Sasuke and Izuna's Mangekyō since it's about symmetrical shape. And yet, Madara calls his own EMS (which has no symmetry) a Straight Tomoe.--Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna JOA20 10:10, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
Even that is speculation. We don't know what straight tomoe are or if Madara talked about his and Sasuke's MS or eternal MS. • Seelentau 愛 10:16, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure 'straight tomoe' refers to the way the donor's Mangekyō was incorporated into their own. Itachi's curved tomoe became three straight tomoe in Sasuke's eternal variant, and while Izuna's wasn't necessarily curved, it became three completely straight bars on the edges of Madara's circular Mangekyō. That's my take on it. --Atrix471 (talk) 10:43, August 7, 2014 (UTC)

I think Atrix is right. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 16:28, August 9, 2014 (UTC)

Well, as much as I appreciate the support, it's still speculation unfortunately. --Atrix471 (talk) 21:13, August 9, 2014 (UTC)

Kakashi gaining Susanoo Edit

It seems that the reason Kakashi got Susanoo isn't just because he got both eyes but because he also received the power of the 6 paths which improved the eyes' power; shouldn't that also be added in to all the pages with Kakashi's new power?--Deathmailrock (talk) 19:41, August 20, 2014 (UTC)

Hmm... Kakashi did confirm that the Rikudou's power did make his eyes stronger (I always wondered why Kakashi was instantly able to conjure up a PS and where he got the chakra reserves from to do so, but the Six paths power can do anything like Naruto said, so it makes sense). Plus the Six paths power could be the one with the "fixed time limit" Obito was talking about, so... yea, whateva. WindStar7125 WindStar7125 Task (Talk) (Contributions) 19:45, August 20, 2014 (UTC)

Infobox ErrorEdit

Hey, guys... This might be just me, I see something called "Thread: Sasuke Uchiha" in the infobox. Another glitch, I suppose. Can someone correct this?--NinjaSheik 19:54, August 30, 2014 (UTC)

I don't see it--Elveonora (talk) 19:56, August 30, 2014 (UTC)
I saw it once, because some idiot moved Sasuke's page to Thread:Sasuke Uchiha, but I just pushed the Null Edit button and it was gone.--Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna JOA20 20:05, August 30, 2014 (UTC)
What JOA20 said. Just perform a null edit to update the SMW cache. --SuperSajuuk Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | Channel 20:23, August 30, 2014 (UTC)
Ah, it's gone. I didn't even have to use that null edit thing. I don't even know what the heck it is, anyway. ^_^; I never had to use it before. Well, whatever, it's fixed now.--NinjaSheik 03:29, August 31, 2014 (UTC)

Sasuke wielding Itachi's eyes. Edit

While it has been argued in the past whether or not Sasuke has Tsukuyomi, evidence strongly suggests that he does. As seen with Obito's left Kamui from Madara, when an Uchiha transplants a Mangekyo eye into them, they add all the said eye's techniques. Likewise, Sasuke, despite having Itachi's eyes, can still use his original arsenal of techniques from his original eyes. That being said, Sasuke would indeed have Itachi's Tsukuyomi and Yasaka Magatama. Hence, we should add those two techniques to Sasuke's infobox.—Steveo920 (Talk) 23:57, September 16, 2014

I agree with this reasoning, but shrugs, others don't I guess.--Elveonora (talk) 09:50, September 17, 2014 (UTC)
Me too, but the thing is, we've never seen those techniques and he was never even hinted at having them. Your reasoning is true, but it's "outside reasoning", so to speak. • Seelentau 愛 10:55, September 17, 2014 (UTC)
I don't know what you mean by "outside reasoning", but just because he hasn't shown it doesn't mean he doesn't have it, similar to how Obito never used Animal Path, but be we know he did have it.—Steveo920 (Talk) 9:37, September 17, 2014
We know he did because Kabuto confirmed that he can use it to read Yamato's mind. Was that the Animal Path? Can't remember. That's "inside reasoning": Using statements from the manga, even though a demonstration of the technique wasn't shown. We have no statements regarding Sasuke's Tsukuyomi, even though for us outside the manga, the readers, it seems logical. • Seelentau 愛 13:45, September 17, 2014 (UTC)

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