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== Hashirama Face Implant ==
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Like, it's gone.--'''[[User:Koto Senju|Koto]]'''<small><sup>[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk Page]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|My Contributions]]</sup></small> 17:44, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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:When Kaguya left his body, it probably reverted back to ''his'' base form. Any alien entities, no matter how well ingrained, probably left with her. I'm gonna assume the Rinnegan is gone too. --[[User:Atrix471|Atrix471]] ([[User talk:Atrix471|talk]]) 18:32, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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::Likely an oversight--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:09, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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:::I'd wait for the next chapter. If Madara reappeared, it means he has still some role to play.--[[File:Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna.svg|15px]] [[User:JOA20|'''JOA''']][[User talk:JOA20|''20'']] 19:18, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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::::He is dead, without the slightest doubt. Seriously, I'm Madara's fan too, but why some people can't get over his death? Yes, it was half-assed, but it happened.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:22, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::@Elveo, Multiple screenshots were shown without the Hashi face implant. Why think it's an oversight? -- '''[[User:Koto Senju|Koto]]'''<small><sup>[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk Page]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|My Contributions]]</sup></small> 19:25, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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::::::@Elveo, I'm not saying Madara ''isn't'' dead, just that he, either his body or soul, has some role to play, otherwise Kishi wouldn't have bothered to make the Kages teleport his body back to Earth as well.--[[File:Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna.svg|15px]] [[User:JOA20|'''JOA''']][[User talk:JOA20|''20'']] 19:26, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::::Let's be honest, Hashirama just wanted to be with his bestie one last time... --[[User:Atrix471|Atrix471]] ([[User talk:Atrix471|talk]]) 19:29, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
   
<center><big><big><big>SPECULATION WILL BE REMOVED</big></big></big></center>
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== Dead? ==
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How can we be absolutely sure Madara's dead? He could just be unconscious. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 19:32, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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:We aren't, people just like to make assumptions. --[[User:Atrix471|Atrix471]] ([[User talk:Atrix471|talk]]) 19:33, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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::Yes, we are. When a Tailed Beast gets extracted, the jinchuuriki dies. In addition, he was already dead the moment Kaguya took over--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:36, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Generally speaking, when someone is stabbed and their body is used as a medium for the revival of another, they are dead. Considering that Madara's body was used as a medium to revive Kaguya, I would be very surprised if he's still alive. For now, Presumed Deceased is staying, unless a new chapter states he isn't. --[[User:SuperSajuuk|SuperSajuuk]] <sup><small>[[User talk:SuperSajuuk|Talk Page]] | [[User:SuperSajuuk/Images|My Image Uploads]] | [[User:SuperSajuuk/Tabber Code|Tabber Code]] | [http://youtube.com/LPSajuuk Channel]</small></sup> 19:37, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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::::Not only Kaguya took over which killed him, but also it is the manga's rule that extraction of a Tailed Beast kills the jinchuuriki.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:40, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::Obito got impaled through the chest and later forced to use a jutsu that guarantees death and he still lived through it. Besides, Madara's wounds are all gone now.. it's very possible that he's currently alive and will get a proper death scene in the next chapter. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 19:44, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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::::::We don't do "I think it's possible" the difference is that Obito had Black Zetsu, Gedo Mazo and Naruto's Jesus hand to keep him alive.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:47, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::::Please, we all know Kishi physically cannot leave a villain die without being redeemed in some way. If Madara dies, how will TNJ work? --[[User:Atrix471|Atrix471]] ([[User talk:Atrix471|talk]]) 19:49, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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::::::::All I'm saying is we can and should wait until there's absolutely no doubt he's dead. That's why we listed him as "Presumed Deceased" even after his existence was seemingly wiped out with Kaguya's revival. You've been told this time and time again Elv but for the millionth time, stop jumping to conclusions and editing articles with conjecture. Remember a few years ago when you opted for us to wait a week when Tobi was unmasked, even though all the evidence pointed to him being Obito? I hate it when people hold others to a standard they can't adhere to.. so like I said, let's just wait. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 19:52, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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:I think people are forgetting that the Tailed Beast Extraction killing the user rule doesn't apply too Jinchuriki's of the Shinju it only leaves them paralyzed.--[[User:Thdyingbreed|Thdyingbreed]] ([[User talk:Thdyingbreed|talk]]) 22:06, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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::If he really is dead, how can he be summoned? You are too quick to assume that Madara is dead, just like when you turned out to be wrong about Obito. Also, it was never confirmed that he died when Kaguya took over. [[User:Patsoumas1995|Patsoumas1995]] ([[User talk:Patsoumas1995|talk]]) 23:15, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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:::@Thdying, that's not what was stated. The reason Hagoromo survived was because he extracted only the chakra while leaving the body of the Ten-Tails inside of him, which kept him alive but resulted in paralysis.
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:::@Patsoumas, Pains are corpses, they can be summoned. Kunai and Shuriken are inanimate, they can be summoned, your point?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 09:43, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
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::::Pain's corpses are reanimated through the power of the Rinnengan, and the Kunai & Shuriken are summoned through scrolls, not Summoning Technique. When a person dies, his chakra disappears, so how would Madara be summoned if he is dead? And also, I don't think that it is stated that the Jinchuriki dies immediately after the Bijuu is extracted. [[User:Patsoumas1995|Patsoumas1995]] ([[User talk:Patsoumas1995|talk]]) 10:09, August 30, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::The only point that matters is that Madara isn't definitively confirmed to be deceased, therefore we can't call him deceased. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 18:31, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
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::::::Except he is. Do I need to slap the chapter and page onto your face where Zetsu says how it's a rule that when a Tailed Beast is extracted, the jinchuuriki dies? Seriously, I like Madara too, but this fanboy bias is getting out of control. How you feel towards a certain character shouldn't affect what you want to go or don't want to go into his/her article.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 18:35, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::::Didn't seem to kill Killer B all that much. He's alive until he we know he's dead, though death is likely. "Presumed Deceased".--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Eye of Rikudō.svg|30px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 18:56, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
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:You beat me, well done, okay then. (I wonder how B survived though, the tentacle things makes me go crazy)--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:00, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
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::Need I remind you Elv that Madara still had the gedo statue inside of him [or Kaguya] when the TB's were extracted? That rule doesn't apply here. Madara was never explicitly confirmed to be dead, therefore we wait. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 19:38, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
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:::He didn't/doesn't have the "statue"--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:48, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
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::::He did when the Tailed Beasts were extracted, thus removing the certainty of death. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 20:55, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::Yin-Kurama stated that Ten-Tails' jinchūriki survive the tailed beasts' extraction only if they have the Demonic Statue in their body because of its strong life force – meaning, if the Statue is extracted as well, the jinchūriki's case is no different from any other tailed beast's jinchūriki.--[[File:Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna.svg|15px]] [[User:JOA20|'''JOA''']][[User talk:JOA20|''20'']] 21:06, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
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::::::I think you both need to re-read the chapter because you don't seem to remember the order of events. It wasn't Statue > Tailed beasts. It was Tailed Beasts > Statue, meaning the tailed beasts were extracted from Kaguya/Madara while the statue was still inside them and ''then'' the statue/Kaguya spat out Madara, meaning the effects of the statue are still in place. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 00:43, August 30, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::::There are no lasting effects. The "statue" keeps them alive only for as long as it's inside, not once it's extracted as well.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:39, August 30, 2014 (UTC)
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:If the jinchuriki dies immediately after the Biju/Gedo Mazo is removed, why was Obito still alive after Black Zetsu left his body? He had the Gedo Mazo & the 9 Biju extracted from his body AND he had used the Rinne Tensei. I'm sure Madara will eventually die after the extraction, but nothing says that he is already dead. [[User:Patsoumas1995|Patsoumas1995]] ([[User talk:Patsoumas1995|talk]]) 15:33, August 30, 2014 (UTC)
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::And as we all said, Madara was still alive. [[User:Patsoumas1995|Patsoumas1995]] ([[User talk:Patsoumas1995|talk]]) 11:39, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
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:::To say 2 sentences, thus was dead.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 11:40, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
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::::He was still alive, and died after that. It's different being dead & close to death. [[User:Patsoumas1995|Patsoumas1995]] ([[User talk:Patsoumas1995|talk]]) 12:36, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::Now he's '''very obviously dead''', can we stop this discussion and update the infobox? --[[User:SuperSajuuk|SuperSajuuk]] <sup><small>[[User talk:SuperSajuuk|Talk Page]] | [[User:SuperSajuuk/Images|My Image Uploads]] | [[User:SuperSajuuk/Tabber Code|Tabber Code]] | [http://youtube.com/LPSajuuk Channel]</small></sup> 12:39, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
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::::::Not saying he isn't dead '''now''', I'm saying that he wasn't dead in the previous chapter, as some were hurried to assume. [[User:Patsoumas1995|Patsoumas1995]] ([[User talk:Patsoumas1995|talk]]) 12:45, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
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There's no need to pick at people with hindsight. Let it simply be a lesson to people not to jump the gun when they think somebody's dead. Nobody was denying he'd probably die in the next chapter anyways. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 17:15, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Amaterasu ==
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== Storm Release is not his kekkei genkai ==
   
When was it stated in the manga that having Susanoo and Tsukuyomi automatically meant you had Amaterasu??? cause Madara and Obito both claimed to be able to use Tsukuyomi, and while it is true that both Sasuke and Itachi were able to use all 3 jutsu, Tobi showed surprise at Sasuke using Susanoo, even though he knew Sasuke had Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi....... Madara wasn't shown using Amaterasu yet so isn't him knowing just speculation??? those 3 jutsu being a package deal was never once stated as fact...... or am I wrong, cause if so, what chapter???
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He gained it by becoming the Juubie's jinchuriki, just like Rosh and Naruto gained Lava Release from Son, its not a kekkei genkai it's a tailed beast skill.--[[User:Hunter4522|Hunter4522]] ([[User talk:Hunter4522|talk]]) 23:26, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
--[[User:Deathmailrock|Deathmailrock]] ([[User talk:Deathmailrock|talk]]) 08:27, May 2, 2013 (UTC)
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:We don't know for sure either way, you can't be so sure.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 09:43, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
:It was stated in a databook.'''~ [[User:UltimateSupreme|<span style="color:blue;">Ultimate</span>]][[User talk:UltimateSupreme|<span style="color:#EE2C2C;">Supreme</span>]]''' 08:36, May 2, 2013 (UTC)
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::The ones that posses all bijuu chakras can create the truth seeking ball and have all the chakra natures and kekkei genkai--[[User:Hunter4522|Hunter4522]] ([[User talk:Hunter4522|talk]]) 15:11, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Actually, no such thing was stated in official translation about all kekkei genkai. Fire, Wind, Earth, Lightning, Wood, Yin, Yang were attributed to Kaguya, with Wood possibly being an error, supposed to be Water instead.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 18:30, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
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::::So how is Wood Release a kekkei genkai? Is it because the Uchiha and Senju are both descended from the Sage of the Six Paths? I thought Wood Release was only a Senju kekkei genkai...[[User talk:Banan14kab|'''''<span style="color:black">Banan'''''</span><span style="color:grey">'''14'''</span>'''''<span style="color:crimson" >kab</span>''''']]
   
== About Jutsu ==
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== Wind release ==
   
This is mistaken or what? but I didn't see Susano'o as Madara Technique at Jutsu List, please fix it.[[Special:Contributions/203.201.173.210|203.201.173.210]] ([[User talk:203.201.173.210|talk]]) 04:52, May 5, 2013 (UTC)
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I thought Madara's wind release was anime only so why is that caption gone?--[[User:Rinneganmaster|Rinneganmaster]] ([[User talk:Rinneganmaster|talk]]) 20:07, August 31, 2014 (UTC)
:Infobox bug. No infobox is currently showing jutsu characters have only used in the manga, but that have already appeared in the anime being used by someone else. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 04:56, May 5, 2013 (UTC)
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:Because he used Storm Release, which is made up of Wind and Water. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|]]</sup> 20:11, August 31, 2014 (UTC)
Why Madara don't have Genjutsu: Sharingan & Tsukuyomi in his jutsu list?--[[User:BossGSCS|BossGSCS]] ([[User talk:BossGSCS|talk]]) 14:25, July 25, 2013 (UTC)--[[User:BossGSCS|BossGSCS]] ([[User talk:BossGSCS|talk]]) 14:25, July 25, 2013 (UTC)
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::That would be Ice... Lightning and Water you mean. You should go to bed :P--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 20:12, August 31, 2014 (UTC)
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:::...hmph. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 20:12, August 31, 2014 (UTC)
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Exactly, I believe we should put anime only.--[[User:Rinneganmaster|Rinneganmaster]] ([[User talk:Rinneganmaster|talk]]) 23:00, August 31, 2014 (UTC)
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:Yeah, why was the anime only tag removed?--[[User:WindStar7125|<font color="blue">'''''WindStar7125'''''</font>]] [[File:WindStar7125 Task.svg|20px|link=User:WindStar7125]] [[User talk:WindStar7125|<sup>(Talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/WindStar7125|<sub>(Contribs)</sub>]] 00:37, September 1, 2014 (UTC)
   
== all paths techniques ==
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Hey shouldn't the Storm Release be listed in Madara's kekkei genkai, after all it is an advance chakra nature and a bloodline trait. I mean I know Madara only acessed it through like the six paths senjutsu but still it should be added its a form of kekkei genkai. i'm not saying that we should list his storm release jutsu as a kekkei genkai, but just simply put it in his infobox. --[[User:Tuxedo12|Tuxedo12]] ([[User talk:Tuxedo12|talk]]) 04:38, September 3, 2014 (UTC)
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:We don't know how he could use it. Stating it was because of jinchuuriki status is no more speculative than stating it was because of kkg, because at the end of the day, we don't know--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 08:24, September 3, 2014
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(UTC)
   
When Madara was about to train Obito, he told him he is gonna teach six paths technique, meaning shouldn't we list him as a user also of others besides Preta and Deva? Not to mention he ordered Obito to use that black rod meaning Outer one too--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:09, May 9, 2013 (UTC)
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Did Kaguya say the Truthseeking ball is made of all elements? If that's true than Madara's a wind release user.--[[User:Rinneganmaster|Rinneganmaster]] ([[User talk:Rinneganmaster|talk]]) 21:13, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
:I pondered on your inquiry for a while, and come to think of it, I agree. I mean, by priciple alone, we've added Monzaemon's respected puppet techniques and we added Izanagi to Madara. [[User:JaZZBaND|JaZZBaND]] ([[User talk:JaZZBaND|talk]]) 13:33, May 9, 2013 (UTC)
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:There's a still an argument going if the description was about her own alone or in general--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:15, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
   
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== Loss of Rinnegan ==
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Since when, I wonder, does a loss of Hashirama's face mean Madara has lost his Rinnegan, when he didn't have that when he awoke those eyes? Thats not confirmed anywhere. Nor is it conformed that a loss of hashirama's cells at all would mean he lost the Rinnegan. Its a kekkei genkai and was in his blood from the time he awakened it. ([[User:The Fox King|The Fox King]] [[User talk:The Fox King|(talk)]] 21:59, September 4, 2014 (UTC))
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:The manga made it quite clear, Madara lost all his enhancements before death. If he still had Hashirama's cells, they would have helped him survive like they did with Obito. If he still had his Rinnegan, Mdara's eyes would have still shown it. The Rinnegan was only awoken by a combination of Indra and Asura's chakra, and Madara lost Asura's chakra thus his eyes reverted back to the state they were before. Its really quite simple. --[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 22:14, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
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::Madara is able to switched between Rinnegan and other dojutsu at will, and may just have been too weak to keep it active at death. Again, we don't know he lost all of hashirama's cells, just the face, which wasn't there at the start. Plus Rinnegan isn't an enhancement for Madara, its naturally his. --[[User:The Fox King|The Fox King]] [[User talk:The Fox King|(talk)]] 22:19, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
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:::@Saiyaman No, that really is quite stupid. Madara's eyes did exactly what Itachi's did when he died and turned back into their normal form. Madara awakened the Rinnegan. It doesn't just disappear. When they run out of chakra, their eyes go back to normal, because the eyes require chakra to remain active. So, before you try again, SuperSaiyaMan, you are not to add anything about Madara losing the Rinnegan because he didn't. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Rinnegan Sasuke.svg|20px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 22:21, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
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::::Uh, we see the Sharingan still in his eyes meaning that comparison doesn't make sense, Ten-Tailed Fox. The tomoe were still there. And Hagoromo made it clear how a Rinnegan is awoken: Indra and Asura's chakra mixes together, bringing out Hagoromo's. If Madara still possessed Hashirama's cells, why did he die so quickly compared to Obito? --[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 22:24, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::Obito had things like the Gedo Statue, Black Zetsu, a higher concentration of Hashirama's cells, and Naruto's "Jesus" hand keeping him alive all that time at different points. Thats why. Madara had, at the end from the looks of it, at best just the cells he stuck in his chest originally, which again we don't know he lost and none of those other things. --[[User:The Fox King|The Fox King]] [[User talk:The Fox King|(talk)]] 22:27, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
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::::::Um, @SuperSaiyaMan, where are the tomoe? I see no Sharingan in his eyes at all. They just look blank. --[[User:WindStar7125|<font color="blue">'''''WindStar7125'''''</font>]] [[File:WindStar7125 Task.svg|20px|link=User talk:WindStar7125]] [[File:WindStar7125's Task.svg|20px|link=Special:Contributions/WindStar7125|]] 22:30, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::::Page 9, bottom right panel. You see the Tomoe in the edges. Though if Ten Tailed Fox doesn't want it to be put down, okay. Maybe in the next chapters we'll get some confirmation since no one in their right mind would want those Rinnegan to stay around with Orochimaru being there. --[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 22:34, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
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:I've already seen the page, I know what I said when I typed in "They just look blank." Those aren't tomoe. It looks like he used Izanagi twice or something. --[[User:WindStar7125|<font color="blue">'''''WindStar7125'''''</font>]] [[File:WindStar7125 Task.svg|20px|link=User talk:WindStar7125]] [[File:WindStar7125's Task.svg|20px|link=Special:Contributions/WindStar7125|]] 22:39, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
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::If the Rinnengan disappears when Indra's & Asura's chakra are not combined, how could Nagato, who only has Indra's through the eyes, keep the Rinnengan active? --[[User:Patsoumas1995|Patsoumas1995]] ([[User talk:Patsoumas1995|talk]]) 23:21, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
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:::I think its due to being a Uzumaki and Senju descendant he was able to maintain the implanted Rinnegan, given both clans are descended from Asura. --[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 00:40, September 5, 2014 (UTC)
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::::I suppose that's why he was called 3rd Six Paths despite it having been just an implant --[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 10:12, September 5, 2014 (UTC)
   
Madara knows and can use them all, so can Obito. I mean Obito taught Nagato all of the six paths techniques..... [[Special:Contributions/96.241.55.117|96.241.55.117]] ([[User talk:96.241.55.117|talk]]) 20:52, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
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== Dead 3 times ==
   
where does it say that obito taught nagato the six paths [[User:Actionmanrandell|Actionmanrandell]] ([[User talk:Actionmanrandell|talk]]) 23:33, July 2, 2013 (UTC)actionmanrandell[[User:Actionmanrandell|Actionmanrandell]] ([[User talk:Actionmanrandell|talk]]) 23:33, July 2, 2013 (UTC)
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Madara has never died 3 times during the entire series, but 2. He died the first time when he was an old man, he got revived during the war by Obito's Rinne Tensei and died for his second and last time when Kaguya was defeated and Madara had the Jubi extracted from his body.
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I red over there that some users are taking madara's status when Kaguya took over his body as dead, which is not right. He just was unconscious, deeply inside Kaguya. And the irrefutable fact that he had never died after this event, despite some characters of the series thinking the opposite (Tobirama's attempt to use Edo Tensei), is clearly given to us 2 chapters ago; Kaguya defeated, and Madara ALIVE sharing his last moments with Hashirama.
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Please, we have to begin to use common sense when we create discussion articles. Have that trivia note about his deaths erased, it's not true. --[[User:KILLERBEE479|KILLERBEE479]] ([[User talk:KILLERBEE479|talk]]) 19:07, September 10, 2014 (UTC)
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: The first time he died at Hashirama's hands and revived himself through Izanagi. The Second as an old man. The Third time was after extracting the Tailed Beasts.--[[User:MERCURIOUS|MERCURIOUS]] ([[User talk:MERCURIOUS|talk]]) 19:11, September 10, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Appearance during Konoha's founding? ==
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== Fire Release ==
   
What color is Madara's shirt on the cover for Konohas founding?--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 00:17, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
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is it safe to assume that fire is his affinity, and maybe add it to the infobox...based on the fact that uchiha members have affinity for & proficiency with it...also for the most part of the series he used this nature more over the others... --[[User:DARK ZER06|DARK ZER06]] ([[User talk:DARK ZER06|talk]]) 11:50, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
:Looks blue/purple to me--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 00:39, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
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:No assumptions. For example according to the anime, Sasuke's affinity is Lightning. And yeah, I know manga > anime, but we can't ignore the anime. But just in case the anime is correct in Lightning being Sasuke's affinity, then it may be possible for someone to have 2 affinities. In fact, according to the anime, advanced nature kekkei genkai = having affinity for 2 natures thus being capable to merge them. They pulled this outta their arses, because Kishi said no such thing, but again, in case they are right, then Sasuke's affinities may be both Fire and Lightning and taking the kekkei genkai part into consideration, it would explain Blaze Release :D :D :D--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 11:56, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
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::There can't be two affinities, because that would not be what an affinity is. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 11:59, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Tell that to Studio Pierrot :P In fact, there may be 3 (Kekkei Tota) according to them. Now I mention it, I don't think we have documented this anywhere, we simply ignored it I guess--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:03, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
   
It's hard for me to tell due to my own partial color-blindness, and that is what prevents me from properly telling what the exact color is, is it ok if I add that color to his appearance, yes, no, maybe? It's all up to you, you are admin after all Elveonora.--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 00:43, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
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well if someone has affinity for 2 natures or more then it's not necessary to put it for both natures at all...but if someone like naruto or kakashi has an affinity for one nature & uses that one nature more that other natures as in kakashi's case then it's right to put affinity for that nature in the infobox...I'm suggesting the same for madara's fire...and maybe obito too now that I think about it...since he too hade fire as his original nature and used it more that other natures...and possibly any other character with these conditions...like...idk temari for example...or kitsuchi...or earth for onoki...hope I've made my point clear... --[[User:DARK ZER06|DARK ZER06]] ([[User talk:DARK ZER06|talk]]) 12:06, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
:Am I? Sucks no one told me until now, good to know... so my first act of as now official adminship is allowing you to add his shirt color, you don't have to thank me.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 00:58, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
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:Frequency of nature's usage isn't necessarily a determinant of an affinity.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:08, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
   
Thank you, very much It's just best to discuss things with administration to learn whether or not, to add new things; to avoid getting warnings and being blocked.--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 01:06, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
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then what is... --[[User:DARK ZER06|DARK ZER06]] ([[User talk:DARK ZER06|talk]]) 12:11, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
:No problem. No one gets blocked for editing, but for vandalism etc.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 01:13, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
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:Affinity means natural talent towards a certain nature... a genetic predisposition if you will.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:14, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
   
==Hashirama's quote==
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doesn't madara have that natural talent & genetic predisposition towards fire?...based on what V've seen from him in the manga... --[[User:DARK ZER06|DARK ZER06]] ([[User talk:DARK ZER06|talk]]) 12:21, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
He didn't say Madara loved his brother more than Itachi. He said Madara probably loved/cared about his brother more than Hashirama himself towards Tobirama. In the raw he said "kisama no ani" (he called Sasuke "kimi").
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:Likely, but we weren't told Fire is his affinity, so we can't assume so--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:23, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
--[[User:Hinoneko|Hinoneko]] ([[User talk:Hinoneko|talk]]) 08:53, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
== Final Susanoo worth adding? ==
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sooo...V R putting the term affinity for only 2 characters in the entire series in this wiki & not for other characters with similar conditions?...ok --[[User:DARK ZER06|DARK ZER06]] ([[User talk:DARK ZER06|talk]]) 12:26, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
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:Because we were told what those characters' affinities are.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:29, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
   
I hope someone can add Madara's complete Final Susanoo as separate picture under Madara's abilities and powers, it would be worth seeing due to give people a better idea of what it exactly looks like.--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 02:18, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
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== Changes ==
:Feel the same way. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 02:32, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
Does that mean somebody will add it?--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 02:59, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
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I think we should remove Outer Path: Samsara of Heavenly Life Technique from Madara's jutsu list. Just because he forced Obito to perform it doesn't mean Madara can use the jutsu. Obito can use the jutsu not Madara.--[[User:Rinneganmaster|Rinneganmaster]] ([[User talk:Rinneganmaster|talk]]) 21:39, September 19, 2014 (UTC)
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:Obito was using Madara's Rinnegan in the first place. And also, the Outer Path is a derived technique of the [[Six Paths Technique]]. Read the article I just linked. Anyone who can use the SPT has access to the powers in the article. Including the Outer Path. --[[User:WindStar7125|<font color="blue">'''''WindStar7125'''''</font>]] [[File:WindStar7125 Task.svg|20px|link=User talk:WindStar7125]] [[File:WindStar7125's Task.svg|20px|link=Special:Contributions/WindStar7125|]] 21:46, September 19, 2014 (UTC)
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I'm not saying Madara can't use the Outer Path, I'm saying he can't be a user of the Outer Path: Heavenly Life jutsu. Madara didn't use the jutsu, he forced Obito to perform it. Therefore I think we should remove samsara of heavely life jutsu from Madara's jutsu inbox. Madara can use the outer path since he can perform the demonic statue chains. --[[User:Rinneganmaster|Rinneganmaster]] ([[User talk:Rinneganmaster|talk]]) 22:19, September 19, 2014 (UTC)
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:My point is, the Six Paths Technique grants those abilities. If Madara can use the Six Paths Technique, he can use the Outer Path, and therefore can use the Outer Path: Samsara of Heavenly Life Technique. He won't be removed. And like I said, Obito was using ''Madara's'' Rinnegan. --[[User:WindStar7125|<font color="blue">'''''WindStar7125'''''</font>]] [[File:WindStar7125 Task.svg|20px|link=User talk:WindStar7125]] [[File:WindStar7125's Task.svg|20px|link=Special:Contributions/WindStar7125|]] 22:32, September 19, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Susanoo's resistance to attacks? ==
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And plus, of course Madara was using it, with his artificial Rinnegan and real Rinnegan through Obito. You can't convince anyone that didn't happen, that it was all Obito and had nothing to do with Madara. And I'll say it again, Obito was using ''Madara's'' Rinnegan. Of course Madara can use it, all of the powers Obito and Nagato used come from him. --[[User:WindStar7125|<font color="blue">'''''WindStar7125'''''</font>]] [[File:WindStar7125 Task.svg|20px|link=User talk:WindStar7125]] [[File:WindStar7125's Task.svg|20px|link=Special:Contributions/WindStar7125|]] 22:45, September 19, 2014 (UTC)
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Just because you can use the Outer Path doesn't mean you can use all of the derivative jutsus from it. As a rinnegan user, you have access to all of the rinnegan powers and therefore you are a user of every path power. However just because you know them doesn't mean you can use all of the derived techniques. If you claim all the powers of Nagato and Obito are Madara's you are saying Madara should be a user of Shinra Tensei which he hasn't demonstrated. Madara never demonstrated Samsara Jutsu on his own. He only forced Obito to perform that jutsu on himself.--[[User:Rinneganmaster|Rinneganmaster]] ([[User talk:Rinneganmaster|talk]]) 07:19, September 20, 2014 (UTC)
   
I was wondering it seems like Madara Uchiha's Susanoo has immunity to the Fifth Mizukage's when Mei Terumi, A, and Naruto attacked was not added as well even it showed it in the manga where it clearly withstood all three of the above mentioned; combined characters attacks all while having no effect on Madara's Susanoo ribcage at all. So is it worth mentioning?--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 22:29, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
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Forcing Obito use it means Madara can use it--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 10:26, September 20, 2014 (UTC)
   
As well as withstanding Might Guy's Daytime Tiger attack, and finally A and Onoki's combined aggravated rock technique, with all of that merely pushing back Madara's Susanoo, rather than actually harming it?--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 23:28, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
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How does forcing someone to perform a jutsu make that person a user? Madara could had been mentally forcing Obito to give in to his wish? --[[User:Rinneganmaster|Rinneganmaster]] ([[User talk:Rinneganmaster|talk]]) 01:50, September 21, 2014 (UTC)
:Susanoo is chakra, it's not alive in the sense of having a consciousness. It's quite similar to a tailed beast cloak.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:38, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
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:You can't delete discussions unless they are forum talk or theories. This discussion does not violate the deletion policy nor the talkpage policy. This is the property of the wiki community. Once you make it, you can't delete it, otherwise you'll be violating the policies. --[[User:WindStar7125|<font color="blue">'''''WindStar7125'''''</font>]] [[File:WindStar7125 Task.svg|20px|link=User talk:WindStar7125]] [[File:WindStar7125's Task.svg|20px|link=Special:Contributions/WindStar7125|]] 01:56, September 21, 2014 (UTC)
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I accidentally clicked deletion category by accident. But my question for this discussion is how does forcing a user to perform a jutsu makes that person a user too? Madara never used it, it was Obito.--[[User:Rinneganmaster|Rinneganmaster]] ([[User talk:Rinneganmaster|talk]]) 02:02, September 21, 2014 (UTC)
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How does madara forcing obito to perform the jutsu make madara a user too?--[[User:Rinneganmaster|Rinneganmaster]] ([[User talk:Rinneganmaster|talk]]) 22:39, September 23, 2014 (UTC)
   
Still is it worth adding?--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 23:42, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
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== Rinnegan Ownership ==
   
Harm might be a poor description, but damage is worth noting, considering when it came to Sasuke's Susanoo it's ribs melted when Mei attacked it and A broke them with a back hand. So by comparison Madara's seems a lot sturdier. --[[User:Hawkeye2701|Hawkeye2701]] ([[User talk:Hawkeye2701|talk]]) 23:50, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
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So in Madara's Rinnegean subsection it says that he can use the Rinnegan to their full potentail/ability because the eyes are originally his. While I agree this makes sense the real question here is that is this correct as Madara technically had Izuna's eyes at the point. So the eyes weren't "originally his", but he did naturally awaken them. I don't know I just thought it was best to discuss it here first before making changes. [[User talk:Banan14kab|'''''<span style="color:black">Banan'''''</span><span style="color:grey">'''14'''</span>'''''<span style="color:crimson" >kab</span>''''']] 20:49, October 17, 2014 (UTC)
   
Isn't his Susanoo's sturdiness already rather well described? I mean, he have some mentions of what is able to damage it, and it goes without saying that things less than that will have little to no effect. I find it very overkill to go listing pretty much every attack it ever received, making a Susanoo Madara Damage Scale. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 23:58, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
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:Nevermind this post. I understand what was meant by the sentence. [[User talk:Banan14kab|'''''<span style="color:black">Banan'''''</span><span style="color:grey">'''14'''</span>'''''<span style="color:crimson" >kab</span>''''']] 07:23, October 21, 2014 (UTC)
   
Honestly didn't even read the article before I replied, probably should have, but if it's durability is already noted there's no point in gilding the lily. --[[User:Hawkeye2701|Hawkeye2701]] ([[User talk:Hawkeye2701|talk]]) 00:05, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
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== Specificity ==
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Given the manga is ending, should we start making these pages describe things more precisely? I've been doing that on a few pages like this one but they keep getting reverted. Can someone explain to me why?[[User:Cloudtheavenger|Cloudtheavenger]] ([[User talk:Cloudtheavenger|talk]]) 23:37, October 31, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Black Rods creation technique ==
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:Articles are supposed to be summaries of their topics. They are not supposed be repositories for everything that can possibly be said about their topic. If you want to improve specification by, for example, adding references: that's great! If you want to improve specification by, for example, transcribing an entire conversation: that's not what the wiki is meant for. '''''~[[User:Snapper2|Snapper]][[User talk:Snapper2|T]][[Special:Contributions/Snapper2|o]]''''' 02:46, November 1, 2014 (UTC)
   
Soo...as we have seen, courtesy of chapter 636, Madara's ability to materialise his will into the black rods also allows him to control people remotely. Soo we've seen him infuse his will to make Black Zetsu, the rods and control Obito from a distance. Now does this warrant the creation of a dedicated technique article? [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 10:07, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
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== Broken mobile EMS icon image in infobox ==
   
So it's confirmed those rods are indeed Rinnegan Outer Path's ability and not something from Ten-Tails' body as our articles suggest. Those rods are "will" for sure since people can be controlled with them. Obito had them in his body since he massacred those Hidden Mist nin, that means Madara used Obito since day one T_T--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 10:11, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
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Pretty minor issue, but it's been troubling me. The Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan icon image in Madara's infobox is broken on the mobile site for some reason. Any quick fix for something like this?--[[User:Minamoto15|Minamoto15]] ([[User talk:Minamoto15|talk]]) 01:49, November 16, 2014 (UTC)
   
:Hum wherent the rods noted as an extension of Madara's Yin-Yang Release, rather than the Outer Path? Also note how when Obito's being control, his body is being covered in black matter, similar to how Black Zetsu was made which was noted as Yin-Yang, so there is a connection between it all. Though i ask again, is there enough now to make a technique article? [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 10:15, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
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== Additional Missing Techniques? ==
::The rods were created using yin-yang release, the control is done through Outer Path--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 10:22, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::Ok now i'm confuzeled...if the control is done through the Outer Path, how the hell did Madara make Black Zetsu, if he didn't even had the Rinnegan at that point...because given how he exerted control over Obito, i'd say that and how BZ was made is ver much connected. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 10:27, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
::::Dude he had the Rinnegan already, it appeared during the end of his '''natural''' lifespan.--[[User:Omojuze|Omojuze]] ([[User talk:Omojuze|talk]]) 10:31, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
::::Madara made Black Zetsu from Yin-Yang Release. Read the bottom of [[Madara Uchiha#Ninjutsu|this section]] about Zetsu and you'll see. Elveonora is correct on this matter. [[User_Talk:Joshbl56|<span style="color:green;">Joshbl56</span>]] 10:33, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::::Dude when he made Black Zetsu, he had already tore out his Rinnegan, plugged it into Nagato and slapped another Sharingan eye in it's place...and @Josh...the section says nothing about the Outer Path...and no one answered my question if by the info of the latest chapter do we have enough to warrant a technique article? [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 10:40, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
He didn't make BZ with Outer Path. BZ is Madara's will embodied using YYR, a creation, so are the rods, since they are inside of Obito's Hash part, his white half turns into a black one the same way as the part of white zetsu turned into black zetsu. The difference is that with Zetsu, he created an living avatar of his that carries his "will" and Obito's body is turning black because Madara's will is taking over from the rods. And I think it warrants an article, it's not exactly the same as six paths of pain, those are corpses moved with chakra like puppets, this is will controlling a living person. The remote transfer/control is an Outer Path technique, it's unlikely he would be able to do it without Rinnegan--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 10:44, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
:@DarkSusanoo You ask how he made Black Zetsu and that's what I was answering. As for the dedicated technique.... I would think it would since we've seen him able to use Yin-Yang Release to do quite a bit now. If anything, it should have a mention in his Abilities. [[User_Talk:Joshbl56|<span style="color:green;">Joshbl56</span>]] 10:52, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
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This is the for last time, I promise I will keep my end of the bargain, but I notice
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that there are still two techniques missing namely when he fought Hashirama Senju at
   
But @Elve both are the same...his will materialised into an effect...you can say that he did to make BZ was the pretty much the same as Obito...so either ''both'' are Outer Path related (despite Madara not having a Rinnegan when he made BZ) or not.
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the [[Valley of the End]], the techniques being [[Tailed Beast Ball]] and
@Josh, the mention is already there, it takes up half of the section dedicated to his skills in Yin-Yang. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 11:08, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
You aren't getting it, the black rods and BZ are YYR creations, the chakra transmit/remote control isn't possible without a Rinnegan, is it? So the will taking over technique is Outer Path related--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 11:20, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
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[[Continuous Tailed Beast Balls]], are they at all worth adding at all, yes or no?--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 04:11, November 28, 2014 (UTC)
:Yes i got it that the BZ and the rods are YYR, but they are not Outer Path related...but what happened to Obito, hell his body turned black like BZ, so the creation of the rods and BZ and Obito's control are the same, which is not OP related. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 11:28, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
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:My eyes bleeding from your post! But anyway Tailed Beast Ball's were used by Kurama who was controled by Madara, so no. ./ [[User:Rage gtx|Rage gtx]] ([[User talk:Rage gtx|talk]]) 04:25, November 28, 2014 (UTC)
::Madara created these Zetsu matter through YYR, so he has complete control over it. These matter seems to work like "Edo Tensei", when at Madara's "will" gains a Black colored tone, when allowing it to have some autonomism has a white colored tone. And yes the control seems to be made through Outer Pass, my idea is almost the same as @Elv's. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 11:38, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::@Dark, ... Madara created BZ and the rods using YYR as his will embodied. Obito's body isn't turning into BZ, it's the will taking over. Why it's outer path is because it allows a Rinnegan user to transmit and control with the rods. If Madara had no Rinnegan, he would not be able to take over Obito--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 11:47, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
::::@Elveo: Why did the black "will" only take over the Zetsu-half of Obito? [[File: Senju_Symbol.svg|20px]]'''KotoSenju''' ''('''OldUser:'''JaZZBaND)''-[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|Contributions]] 11:52, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::::@Koto Because Madara only control the Zetsu matter at his will through OP, he can't control Obito's own body. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 12:02, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
Well that's something to be view latter...anyone else agrees to make a technique article? [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 20:01, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
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How about these two techniques: [[Rinnegan Summoning]], [[Six Paths Sage Technique]], [[Truth-Seeking Ball]] and [[Healing Power]]?--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 15:29, December 11, 2014 (UTC)
:Deserves an article or not? my opinion is that deserves. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 21:54, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
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:Umm.. except Rinnegan Summoning we have seen those other technique and those technique are already Linked to Madara Uchiha, and yeah add it but add Manga only for now except Healing.[[User:Naruto uzu6254|Naruto uzu6254]] ([[User talk:Naruto uzu6254|talk]]) 13:46, December 12, 2014 (UTC)
   
Here's how I understand the current state of events: Madara uses a yet article-less Yin-Yang Release technique to materialise his will into things. Madara has used this technique to manifest his will into a living thing, one of the Zetsu clones, creating Black Zetsu. In the chapter we saw Black Zetsu being made, we were also told that Zetsu in general were made with Yin-Yang Release, but we don't see those being made, so we can't say anything without speculating, so whether it's the same technique or a different one, it's not the case here, just getting that one out of the way for now. Madara has also used the YYR that created BZ to create those chakra receivers. They're his will materialised, and Madara can apparently force those that bear his will to carry it out. Now, we have seen those receivers being used to channel chakra into another being (as chakra disruption blade), and to channel the power of the Outer Path, in a way that binds one's power, akin to to fūinjutsu, if not channelling an actual fūinjutsu. Now, I don't think these particular applications stem from the will manifesting YYR. I think this is similar in a way to how Gaara's shield of sand works. It's something (chakra receiver/shield of sand) that has one specific origin (YYR/Shukaku's sand control) that ended up being operated by another power (Outer Path/Karura's will). I do believe it warrants an article, but we have to be mindful of what to say it does. Will Manifesting/Materialising/Materialisation Technique seems to fit all the cases we've seen Madara doing it. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 00:29, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
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== Rinnegan Techs ==
: I agree with you Sempai for the most part...but given how it was almost identical, how Obito became controled by Madara and how BZ was made (the black matter spreading through their bodies) that it can't be a coincidence. Plus i'll repeat i don't see the rods as Outer Path-related thing...maybe they were adapted to serve as medium to the technique's power, but if Madara made the rods and BZ and did not have a Rinnegan at the time...plus we know YYR does not require a Rinnegan. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 00:40, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
::Madara is enforcing his will through its materialised form that was in Obito. He did the same thing to create BZ, but there he poured the will himself instead of using an already materialised form. We kinda agree on the Outer Path angle. Roads were not created by it, but can be used with it. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 01:36, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::Will Materialisation Technique seems to do the trick in terms of name. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 01:42, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
@Darksusanoo, you still are missing the point. No one says those rods were created using Outer Path. But for his will to take over Obito, that's what the Outer Path is needed for. @Omn, we will have to sort out the Ten-Tails rod thing as well. They were likely used to control it. Also for the rods, it would appear that they are created using Hashirama's Living Clone and have some connection with Hash cells or something--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 14:40, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
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I brought this up in the databook discussions forum as well, but I figured this would be a good spot to bring it up. Nagato uses Shinra Tensei, Banshō Ten'in, Summoning Rinnegan, Absorption Soul technique, etc. All these techs are derived from what's called the Six Paths Technique, which lay in the Rinnegan that belonged to Madara. Is there a reason outside of the faulty reasoning of "he didn't show them" why Madara doesn't have these techs listed?--[[User:Minamoto15|Minamoto15]] ([[User talk:Minamoto15|talk]]) 14:10, December 24, 2014 (UTC)
 
I don't quite think the Hashirama clone is needed to create them. As far as we know, Madara simply inserted one of the rods in the clone, maybe as safeguard, or to make sure that everything created with it was tainted with his will. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 15:34, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
== True main villain? ==
 
 
This is more of a hindsight thing I wanna get going on. If Obito truly does die from casting the Rinne Tensei and Madara is restored to full form, should we consider him the legitimate main antagonist of the entire series? I mean if Obito just drops dead like that, clearly he wasn't ever anything more than a tool of Madara's.. and from how close the series is to ending, I just don't see Orochimaru pulling a 180 and being an antagonist again. Thoughts? --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 15:26, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
:That seemed pretty obvious to me ever since the real Madara was fully revealed as well as how his character was fully explored. Madara felt like the Emperor Palpatine to Obito's Darth Vader and the relationship between the two reflects just that. That said, this isn't really a forum so I'd advise putting this as an actual topic of discussion as opposed to being on Madara's talk page. --[[User:DementedP|DementedP]] ([[User talk:DementedP|talk]]) 16:49, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
::Orochimaru isn't dead. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 18:04, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::.....yeah I'm pretty sure that was mentioned when Orochimaru was referred to doing a 180. That said, I don't think it's far-fetched to say that Orochimaru and Sasuke may still be plotting something (be it good or bad), and whether or not they'll become villains again is pretty much up in the air. --[[User:DementedP|DementedP]] ([[User talk:DementedP|talk]]) 18:18, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Sorry if you got the wrong idea.. I wasn't trying to use this as a forum. I started the discussion purely in context to how we phrase the article should Obito die next chapter. I mean in a sense of should we list Madara as the main antagonist and Obito as simply a "major antagonist"? It's pretty dumb to bring it up before the chapter comes out I know, but I'm curious what others think. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 00:09, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
:The one issue I have with calling Madara the main antagonist of the series is that he wasn't around for the majority of the series, and even with the events he had a hand in plotting, he wasn't the one to carry the overwhelming majority of them out. He may have set the frame for the main picture, but he's not the one who pulled the strings from behind the curtains. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 00:29, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
But if Obito does die next week then it proves that he was merely a pawn and not a genuine main villain. The bottom line is that if it wasn't for Madara, most of the events in the series wouldn't have transpired and while Obito was acting as Madara, he did change his personality significantly to mimic his mentor.. I think Obito acting as Madara kept his presence alive and even though his formal introduction wasn't till much later, he's still been a significant part of the story for a very long time since Obito started using his name. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 05:47, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
:As omnibender said madara hasn't been seen carrying out his plan throughout the series, but him and obito are the ones that caused Naruto(series) to happen he wasn't gthe one who made things how they are that was of course obito prior to the series but i wouldn't put madara as the main antagonist just yet, because you could say orochimaru was the main antagonist after the chunin exams or the akatsuki but he is the main antagonist that was behind the curtains but i wouldn't edit his article for something like this yet --[[User:ROOT 根|ROOT 根 ]] ([[User talk:ROOT 根|talk]]) 10:41, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Main Antagonists aren't always characters who directly acted on their plans themselves but most of the time are people who set them into motion. If Obito was just a pawn then that would mean Madara is the true mastermind, despite his considerable absence from the series. He plotted everything and simply left his lackeys to carry it all out, i don't think that's so rare for a main antagonist to do. he might not be the nemesis of the main character, I'm pretty sure that's still Sasuke, but he is the one who's behind virtually all of the evil occuring in Part II, although Orochimaru is more of the main antagonist of Part I i think.--[[Special:Contributions/77.101.215.79|77.101.215.79]] ([[User talk:77.101.215.79|talk]]) 12:29, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Let's see: Madara is responsible for Nagato and Obito. Well, can't there be 2 "major antagonists" ?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 14:31, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Usually there's just one main antagonist but if the series is subdivided into sagas, say like Dragon ball with the Freeza, Cell and Buu Sagas, there can be multiple lesser antagonists to fill the role. --[[Special:Contributions/77.101.215.79|77.101.215.79]] ([[User talk:77.101.215.79|talk]]) 15:32, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
But given all that's happened I'd say Madara is the main antagonist of Part II and Orochimaru is the main antagonist of Part I. But yeah, putting Sasuke into consideration it's probably too early to make that call.. But Kishi said Naruto would be done in 2014 so it's a bit too late for Oro or Sasuke to become the new main villain[s] of the series I think. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 16:40, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
i say yes what about you--[[Special:Contributions/176.252.171.147|176.252.171.147]] ([[User talk:176.252.171.147|talk]]) 17:12, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
I would say that Sasuke is more of Naruto's antithesis but not an antagonist. as of yet he has done more to make himself such a thing than he has to be a true Antagonist, given his goals I'd say he still won't be an Antagonist even if he does fight Naruto. Madara meanwhile has schemed for a good few decades to take over the world, opposed the main cast directly with various forms of danger, usually through Obito and Akatsuki, and has ultimately spun the world into perpetual disorder with the utterance of his name. --[[Special:Contributions/77.101.215.79|77.101.215.79]] ([[User talk:77.101.215.79|talk]]) 19:38, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
:'''''"The one issue I have with calling Madara the main antagonist of the series is that he wasn't around for the majority of the series, and even with the events he had a hand in plotting, he wasn't the one to carry the overwhelming majority of them out. He may have set the frame for the main picture, but he's not the one who pulled the strings from behind the curtains."'''''
 
:I'd normally agree with this, if it weren't for the fact that Madara actually showed up himself, essentially taking over for Obito as the main leading figure of the war to continually push his plan. If Madara had remained a shadowy figure all throughout, I'd agree that Obito is the main antagonist, but the fact remains that he actually showed up himself and his character is even fully explored to solidify his presence. Not to mention, Madara's influence is ultimately what led Obito to do the things he did. Despite being more prominently shown in the series, Obito is treated almost as a second-in-command to Madara. This is very evident in the way they interact each other. Sure Obito is doing this based on his own reasons, but it ultimately makes him an enforcer of Madara's plans and not necessarily based on his own separate one. Heck he even pretended to be "Madara" on behalf of Madara, so Madara's presence and influence is definitely felt throughout the series even before his actual in-person appearance. While I agree that Madara can technically be considered as the main antagonist of the series, I think that Obito's role as a major antagonist should still be noted (just like with Orochimaru and Nagato) --[[User:DementedP|DementedP]] ([[User talk:DementedP|talk]]) 07:03, June 29, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Well after thinking about it some more, I don't think it's entirely fair to discredit Obito's role up until now. While it's true that he was acting as Madara, the fact remains that it wasn't 'really' Madara doing all the stuff up until now. I think it's fair to say Obito's main antagonist role ended after he was unmasked. Maybe we could say Obito was the main antagonist up to the Shinobi World War arc? And then say Madara is the main antagonist during the Ten Tails Revival Arc up to the current point in the story. Orochimaru was the main villain of Part I so I can't really say either Obito or Madara are the main villains of the series as a whole, since they have little influence over the events occurring prior to Part 2. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 17:00, June 30, 2013 (UTC)
 
:That's a fair enough assessment. I was reading the early parts of the war and it seems fair to give Obito some credit for his work (specifically when he donned a new outfit as the "Masked Man"). That sound perfect though, Obito was definitely the main antagonist up to the Shinobi World War arc, whereas Madara's reveal (and backstory) essentially turned him in to the main antagonist (from Ten Tails Revival Arc up to the current story). That's also true in regards to how their influence only came about in Part 2. --[[User:DementedP|DementedP]] ([[User talk:DementedP|talk]]) 19:37, July 2, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
LOL The new chapter kind of made this entire debate an ironic assumption-fest. I guess Madara's a secondary villain now? --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 20:17, July 3, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
:Haha so true! I can see what Kishimoto is sort of doing though, in the sense that he's having the main fight be fought by the younger generation as opposed to the older ones. Certainly an idea I have no objections to, and at least in this regard Obito's role is not all done yet as far this whole thing goes. --[[User:DementedP|DementedP]] ([[User talk:DementedP|talk]]) 18:44, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
== First seen ==
 
 
F
 
 
Madara is actually seen and revealed as tobi at the end of shippuden #125
 
 
 
 
[[User:Rhythian|Rhythian]] ([[User talk:Rhythian|talk]]) 19:38, July 2, 2013 (UTC)Rhythian
 
 
 
tobi is actually obito [[User:Actionmanrandell|Actionmanrandell]] ([[User talk:Actionmanrandell|talk]]) 23:56, July 2, 2013 (UTC)actionmanrandell[[User:Actionmanrandell|Actionmanrandell]] ([[User talk:Actionmanrandell|talk]]) 23:56, July 2, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
'''how will the outer paths work this time'''
 
 
when nagato used Outer Path: Samsara of Heavenly Life Technique to bring back the villages to life and there souls were in the crossroads: the technique works By channelling their power through the King of Hell, the Rinnegan wielder can re-infuse new life force energy to the bodies of those who have died. With their rejuvenated bodies acting as an anchor. but in this case Madara is not in the cross roads he is bound to a host body by the edo tensei so its not actually his body therefore there would be nothing to anchor his soul to. plus beside if it uses the body that is hosting him to wouldn't the samsara resurrect said body instead? just wondering
 
 
[[User:Actionmanrandell|Actionmanrandell]] ([[User talk:Actionmanrandell|talk]]) 00:03, July 3, 2013 (UTC)actionmanrandell[[User:Actionmanrandell|Actionmanrandell]] ([[User talk:Actionmanrandell|talk]]) 00:03, July 3, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
== Izanagi ==
 
Where was it stated, that Madara had the jutsu? Obito does, but where does Madara states, or shows that he does?--— [[User:Kinglink15|Kinglink15]] ([[User talk:Kinglink15|Kinglink15]]) 03:40, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
:Madara taught Obito how to use Izanagi (the Uchiha kinjutsu in chapter 606) and also has the prerequisite for using it (Sharingan), thus he is logically a user of the technique himself.--[[User:BeyondRed|BeyondRed]] ([[User talk:BeyondRed|talk]]) 03:46, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 
::Kinglink15 is right though. Izanagi and Izanami are techniques that all Uchiha/Sharingan wielder can/would (in the case of being in the clan) learn in theory. That does not however mean he's used the technique as far as we know. It can just as easily be mentioned when Obito learned it in the trivia. We put too much into seeing techniques in infoboxes to validate them.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 07:02, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::As it is now, the other Six Paths techniques are not listed under Madara's techniques, so it's strange that Izanagi is, when Madara taught them to Obito as well. Why was Izanagi's inclusion decided originally?--[[User:BeyondRed|BeyondRed]] ([[User talk:BeyondRed|talk]]) 07:32, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 
::::Again back and forth people? I see it some people decide on something only for others later to ruin it. The decision was to list Madara because he taught Obito Uchiha kinjutsu and Yin-Yang release, Izanagi is both--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:17, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
So please, anyone tell me...who else could have taught Izanagi to Obito? Or anyother of the Six Paths Technique while we're on the subject? If one can teach something, it's a logical assumption they can also use it...and Madara being the most powerful memeber of the Uchiha clan, a man with the power of the First Hokage and the Rinnegan and a man who has clearly dabbled extensively in the techniques of Sage, which include Yin-Yang. He has the skill, he had the time to learn them, he knows enough of them to teach them to someone else. It speaks for itself...let it die already. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 13:40, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 
:So list Sasuke as a Izanami user, he learned it theoretically with Itachi and thats a general skill for Uchihas, if he knows the theory he is a user right? Thats what is being used with Madara as well. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 14:28, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 
::Dan, we are usually in agreement with eachother, but not here. Don't start acting crazy now. OF COURSE SASUKE SHOULDNT BE LISTED MAN! It was actually stated that Madara taught these techniques to Obito, right? So why even bring up that Sasuke scenario? Was it said that Itachi '''taught''' Izanami to Sasuke? No. So how would your example apply? It doesn't. Remember Minato people! It was said that he created the Rasengan or when we were told Tobirama was a user of EDO-TENSEI. We listed them before we '''saw''' them do anything, right? So obviously, you don't have to be '''seen''' doing anything to be listed as a user. It's clearly enough to have some sort of mention to add them as users. And if logic points in that direction, that's ok too. [[File: Senju_Symbol.svg|20px]]'''KotoSenju''' ''('''OldUser:'''JaZZBaND)''-[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|Contributions]] 14:39, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::Yes, Obito could've picked up a scroll and just as easily read about the technique much like how all the other several dozen Uchiha who used to use the techniques in the past. I'll be the first to agree that there needs to be some consistency with the conditions under which we add people as users but simply because Madara said he'll teach Obito the kinjutsu doesn't mean he's ever used it. This isn't exactly something you can physically shown someone and they replicate it. There is a difference between using something and teaching someone how to use something.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 14:43, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 
::::Yes, there is a difference. But how big is the difference? How can you teach someone something, you had no experience with, nor applied yourself? In Naruto, everything someone has taught someone else, they can clearly use it themselves. [[File: Senju_Symbol.svg|20px]]'''KotoSenju''' ''('''OldUser:'''JaZZBaND)''-[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|Contributions]] 14:46, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::::Lack of consistency and bias will once hurt this place a lot I'm afraid. But your point is a good one Cerez, talking about the last sentence. Nevertheless, I'm a bit uncertain if we wouldn't find more cases in which a character is being listed as a user of something that he was noted to have been taught/known but is yet to be seen using it, so. I just can't recall an example as a counter-argument at this point, there must be one though, I hope ._.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 14:48, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 
::::::@Sorry Koto but i have to disagree wit you now :(. Look at Kakashi teaching Naruto how to use Wind Release? And Kakashi is not a user, he only has a advanced knowledge on the subject. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 14:49, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::::::No, Dan. He did teach him how to use wind release, he taught him how to determine his element and mix it with jutsu. The principle is different from the actual application. But on the main point, there's a perfect example in Primary Lotus or even the Shadow Leaf Dance technique. Guy taught them to Rock Lee, obviously. But he has yet to be seen using either of them. [[File: Senju_Symbol.svg|20px]]'''KotoSenju''' ''('''OldUser:'''JaZZBaND)''-[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|Contributions]] 14:55, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 
::::::::@Koto "mix it with jutsu" isn't teaching how to use it? It is... So this shows that someone can teach something if he knows enough to teach it to another. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 14:59, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Given the complexity of Izanagi, i find it difficult for Obito not to have learn it from Madara from a visual/practical standpoint and we know he had replacement Sharingan...plus by Madara's terms, he said he was going to teach him Uchiha kinjutsu, the Six Paths Techniques and Yin-Yang Release ones....given how two out the those three parameters are what makes Izanagi. Also another thing to consider is that Madara molded Obito to in his image, to maintain the idea ''Madara'' was still alive, soo both mens skillsets had to be reasonably similar. So to say Obito could do it and Madara can't doesn't make a lot of sense...[[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 22:08, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 
:@Dark the question here is that someone like Madara having a vast knowledge on the subject could easily teach Obito how to do it without being a user, like Kakashi did with Naruto, and i will talk again about Itachi's Izanami, Sasuke did not realize how Itachi used Izanami, but Itachi explained to him after using it, could be Sasuke a Izanami user? Obvious... From what is being said here. Now, who teached Itachi about Izanami? Maybe he read a scroll or sort of a Uchiwa plate for that, i can't see someone teaching Izanami to Itachi being that he left the village soon and had no further contact with the clan. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 12:55, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
::@Dan...your example is flawed because your mixing the teacher with the student in your examples. Sasuke may have learned the theroretical basis of how Izanami worked...he also understands the workings of Izanagi...but he never used them. On the other hand Madara taught Obito how to do it...and Obito's Izanagi is the most perfect one shown so far...to have that kind of jutsu requires more than theoreical knowledge, and Izanagi to me is a jutsu that requires teaching from a practical standpoint. Why wouldn't the most powerful of the Uchiha not be capable of using one of their most powerful dojutsu. Also if the idea was to make Obito into Madara, it would be suspicious that he one would use it if he never could in the first place. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 13:42, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::@Dark and how about the Jinchūriki sealing techniques? To be exact, the Ten Tails sealing technique, that is really complex, right? In order to learn the technique he would need to testify it? Do you believe he saw it?
 
 
And for my examples, take the Kakashi/Naruto WR example, is enough, the Itachi/Sasuke Izanami is just a way to use the same logical all the way around. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 14:03, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
:Kakashi and the WR is a bit flawed as well, because first Kakashi taught him how to learn his elemental affinity...and to teach him how to use it, he had to get Asuma's help...a skilled Wind Release user to push the point...and in regards to the Ten-tails sealing technique, i'm more than sure the Sage and Madara can also use them...the Sage because he was the first jinchuriki and Madara because it was his plan to become the new one. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 14:49, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
::But how Obito learned it? Saw Madara using it? ofcourse not, if so, Madara was a Jinchūriki, that only explains that someone can teach something without being a user at all. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 14:53, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::The case is not about whether or not Madara can use it, because more likely than no he can. It's about the fact that the infobox is being "abused" in the sense that techniques a person has never '''used''' are being listed under there. Derived/parent techniques are understandable, but he's never used this technique. The problem is that we have no precedence or guideline to go off what is and what isn't added to the infobox as jutsu for a character...--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 16:25, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
::::@Cerez but some are defending Izanagi's permanence at Madara's infobox because they believe he can use it... And even that we can't be sure, so there is no way he should stay listed as a Izanagi user, that should be changed. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 16:42, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::::Because if someone can teach a technique as complex as this: A dojutsu-based forbidden technique of their own clan, a Yin-Yang based one... they have to be able to use it. Madara said he was going to teach Obito, Uchiha kinjutsu, so far there are only two of these and Obito only showed one. We have to assume the basic principle that if one character can teach a technique to another character, they have to be able to use on some basic level in order to pass it on to someone else, unless there's direct evidence to the contrary. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 17:42, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
::::::Kakashi and Naruto WR example settles this. Kakashi can't use and teached Naruto how to use it into his technique, i know your point of view isn't that bad either, but it is a big speculation, and that shouldn't be at the infobox. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 17:46, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
: It does not settle anything...Kakashi only taught him how to identify his elemental affinity and the initial notions in it's use and he still required an alternative teaching way to do so and Naruto still had to require the help of an actual Wind Release user to learn on both a theoretical and practical standpoint. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 18:14, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
::Ok you don't want to see any point of view but your own. You say that no one could learn Izanagi without seeing it, so tell me how did Danzo learned Izanagi? Did someone used it so he could learn? @Dark be reasonable. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 19:12, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
::I am being reasonable:
 
:::Obito was taken in by Madara. Fact
 
:::Madara said he would train Obito personally. Fact
 
:::Madara said he would teach him the following:
 
::::- Uchiha kinjutsu
 
::::- Yin-Yang Release
 
::::- The Six Paths Techniques
 
All of this...fact. What is Izanagi? An Uchiha kinjutsu and YYR technique.
 
I'm following the logical assumption here...if you can teach something, you can use it to some degree...that is the logic. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 19:22, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::::The only fact here is that Madara did not use it, and teaching something doesn't mean using it. That is a big assumption, don't know what the rest thinks. Where needing more opinions to close this matter. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 19:36, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
::::::How can you teach someone to use something effectively without knowing how to use it? It makes no sense whatsoever. But oww well, let's see what the rest of the people says. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 20:10, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::::::No one said he doesn't know how to use it, where saing he just never used it, so he can't be listed, there are more ways to teach or learn something without seeing it or using it. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 21:56, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Ok, this discussion is wearing my patience thin, guys. Allow me to bring up some points.
 
*When was Guy ever '''seen''' using the primary lotus? Never. Yet he is listed as a user.
 
*When was Mangetsu '''seen''' using the Seven Swords? Never. People have said he mastered them.
 
*When was the Sage ever '''seen''' using the Six Paths? Never. We only have mentions of him mastering the Rinnegan, so it's assumed he can use all the techniques.
 
There are thousands more I can bring up, im serious. You people seem to forget what the word ''USER'' means on our website. A "user" of a technique is someone who was mentioned to have been able, has been mentioned to have used, or has even been seen using the technique. As long as the latter fits in one of those three, they're automatically listed as a '''user'''. May I remind you of Tobirama? Gosh, for all we know he could have written on a scroll, the exact directions on how the technique works. How do we know he used it? Someone mentioned that they have, that's why. So with that example alone, you can clearly rule out that the character '''has to be seen using the technique'''. C'mon guys, lets use our minds logically and stay more consistent. It has started to piss a lot of people off. Though, im not entirely pissed, im worried that this crap will come up again.
 
Oh, and Dan, lay off the Kakashi and Wind Release example. You act as if he used the technique that Naruto developed. This is how your example should go:
 
* Kakashi knows how to find your affinity - taught it to Naruto.
 
* Kakashi knows how to mix your affinity with jutsu - taught it to Naruto.
 
That's all he did. Kakashi didn't use the Wind Release: Rasengan, or anyof its variations. Although, do I doubt he can learn the jutsu given enough time? Heck no, he could, but the fact of the matter is, he did not. [[File: Senju_Symbol.svg|20px]]'''KotoSenju''' ''('''OldUser:'''JaZZBaND)''-[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|Contributions]] 22:59, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
:@Koto i am tired too, if you guys can't understand that Izanagi can be learned with a scroll or a Uchiwa plate i can't do nothing, see Danzo's example, and Itachi Izanami example, and Madara's himself, they learned it from an object and not from a training don't you think? Is so hard to accept that it is a conclusion without great fundamentals but a vague phrase? That is not a very logic thought, that is a big assumption (but by saying that is an assumption i am not saying that i am 100% right, and that you guys haven't a point). But is vague, i can't do no more here. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 23:11, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
::Dan, let me reply to your example and give you a question.
 
::::::I agree with what you say. You are totally right on when you say those people could have learned them from a scroll, or by some other means. But you need to give me the difference between this situation and the example in which Guy can use the Primary Lotus. What's your standing on that. Neither Madara, nor Guy have been seen using the techniques in mention. But yet Guy is listed as a user. [[File: Senju_Symbol.svg|20px]]'''KotoSenju''' ''('''OldUser:'''JaZZBaND)''-[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|Contributions]] 23:19, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
:Perhaps because it is a technique of physical component, that has never been demonstrated being included in any available parchment, and his master's trainings were all practical and not theoretical, while in case of Izanagi, has been clearly demonstrated being contained in scrolls and Uchiwa plates. But the way you look at things is different from mine, and you will allways disagree if you can't accept that Madara's phrase is very vague and Izanagi learning content is different from PL. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 23:55, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
With Madara and Obito, the latter could have learned it elsewhere, even if very unlikely, since Madara trained him in areas that cover the technique's description. But on top of that, Madara is a boss, in theory, he can do anything and was leader of Uchiha--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:58, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
:Yes i know that, this case is different, it is only a phrase that could lead 2 ways, practical and theoretical, but what was used? And i have no doubt that Madara can use it, look at what @Cerez said about this, i believe he is right. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 00:04, July 16, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
:Dan, with all due respect, all you did was assume, based on guesses. All that would have me do is ask you how Guy learned it.
 
::From his sensei?
 
::Why didn't his team have experience with technique?
 
::Could he have learned it from his teacher? Did he get the knowledge form a scroll.
 
::Did he create the technique?
 
You cannot answer a single one of those follow-up questions. No one can but Kishi. The difference here, with Madara and Obito, would be that Madara actually told Obito he would teach him the Uchiha Kinjutsu. If you brought this argument to Madara/Obito being able to use Izanagi, then you'd be right 100%. However, here we have a basis. No matter how ''"vague"'' you think Madara's statement was, it was said nonetheless. There are few meanings to what he said, so it shouldn't be vague to you anyway. All-in-all, the evidence stands strong, and you are assuming that Obito learned Izanagi another way, despite the fact that Madara clearly told us what he was going to teach it to him. [[File: Senju_Symbol.svg|20px]]'''KotoSenju''' ''('''OldUser:'''JaZZBaND)''-[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|Contributions]] 00:07, July 16, 2013 (UTC)
 
:@Koto, and you can't answer no one of this but Kishi himself.
 
::::Did Madara used Izanagi so Obito could learn it?
 
::::Is really Madara capable of using Izanagi?
 
::::What was the method used by Madara to teach Izanagi to Obito?.
 
:This is why he can't be listed, because Izanagi has more than one learning method, you can not assume that Madara used it or is a user. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 11:31, July 16, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
== Height ==
 
I don't recall seeing any measurements in his article in the databook. Did I not see it or is that just speculation? --[[User:KiumaruHamachi|KiumaruHamachi]] ([[User talk:KiumaruHamachi|talk]]) 23:06, July 21, 2013 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi
 
:You didn't. Several post-databook relevant characters have recently had their heights added by ItachiWasAHero, who discovered several character concept arts by Studio Pierrot, in which they're given. In the absence of new databook info, that is the most canon information we have. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 20:21, July 23, 2013 (UTC)
 
::Okay, I"m just making sure because I hold this wiki's no speculation allowed rule in high regards. Thank you Omni. --[[User:KiumaruHamachi|KiumaruHamachi]] ([[User talk:KiumaruHamachi|talk]]) 00:27, July 24, 2013 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi
 
 
== Profile Picture ==
 
 
I figured I would bring this up. Would a profile picture change be acceptable? Say [[:File:Madara's Rinnegan.png|this image]]? Anything, honestly, would be better than the low quality, grayscale version, now that we have better anime shots of him. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 17:40, July 25, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
:I would like one where he was ''alive''.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 18:08, July 25, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
:: And I highly doubt we're going to get that. Besides, he will be an Edo Tensei for most of the rest of the anime, save for a flashback or two. If we ''really'' wanted something accurate, we'd have to show him as a crippled old man, and I don't think anyone will support that. Since he's still an Edo Tensei, even in the manga, Edo Tensei is most representative of the form he's taken in the series. Plus, the shot I linked to is in the daylight and he's facing the camera. Its a good shot to use. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 18:16, July 25, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::I too would rather we use an alive image. If anything, we should get Onoki's flashback soon, that's an opportunity to get an alive image. Dunno if Madara still wearing a Konoha forehead protector would cause issues. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 18:22, July 25, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::: Would [[:File:Uchiha Madara alive.png|this]], then, be a suitable replacement. From the new episode. He's both alive, facing the camera, and in the same attire he's in in the current one, only its better quality and in color. Thoughts? ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 07:34, August 2, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::::I really hate the stereotypical grey scale of flashbacks television and movies. But I saw go for it.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 11:12, August 2, 2013 (UTC)
 
::::::This image could be used for a while until we get a better image of Madara in his lifetime wearing his famous uniform and holding his gunbai when the part of his past with Hashirama will be animated in the future. It's a good one by the way. [[User:Shakhmoot|<choose><option>http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a553/anaspet06/Shakhmootssign_zps2a261e68.png</option></choose>]][[User_talk:Shakhmoot|<sup>(Contact)</sup>]] 22:14, August 2, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
That isn't a very big improvement since the artwork of the new one takes place at night so it isn't a huge leap from the grayscaled version. Plus the old one had a better viewing angle and depicted him with his gunbai and armor, and actually showed him looking at the viewer. I say stick with the old one till we have a better version. there's no sense settling for an inferior placeholder for a slight boost in color when the old version worked just fine. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 07:38, August 4, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
== new fire style technique? ==
 
 
ok, for one thing, that new episode was awesome, but after he used the majestic fire annihilation, he used that one technique where he manifests multiple fireballs to attack the ninja. Shouldn't we make that a new technique?--[[User:Asian711|Asian711]] ([[User talk:Asian711|talk]]) 18:05, July 25, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
:[[Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Fire Technique]]--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 18:09, July 25, 2013 (UTC)
 
::Nothing to do...this one is bigger and more powerful, there's no concealed shuriken and the flames have a sphere form. It looks more like a barrage version of the Great Fireball Technique. Plus i believe there is also an unofficially named article for that. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 18:58, July 25, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
== Sources? ==
 
I think it would help both old & new fans of the series; regarding the sources of where it says Madara Uchiha is said to be strongest member the Uchiha clan has ever produced, I am just saying it would be very helpful is all? As well as, regarding protecting the Uchiha from oppression by the Senju? --[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 19:16, July 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
:For the strongest, I think it came from chapter 385 page 16, chapter 386 page 10-11 and chapter 398 page 15. For protecting them, I would say chapter 399 page 8-16. [[User:Jacce|Jacce]] | [[User talk:Jacce|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jacce|Contributions]] 06:59, July 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
== Madara Uchiha trivia ==
 
 
I noticed how the improper coloration of the Rinnegan in one of the early shippuuden episodes was put in the trivia for that so. Would anyone be willing to add the fact that Madara's Rinnegan actually is shown before he uses it? It happens when he looks at Naruto's incoming Massive Rasengan. It's not supposed to be shown until he uses it later against an incoming Rasenshuriken.--[[User:Kibuki91|Kibuki91]] ([[User talk:Kibuki91|talk]]) 01:15, July 27, 2013 (UTC)Kibuki91
 
:That's more of an animation mistake then something that was deliberately changed in the anime adaptation. It's already listed in the anime-manga differences article, and in the episode article if I'm not mistaken. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 17:12, July 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
== rinne tensei related question ==
 
 
since he has the rinnegan, instead of having obito do it couldn't he just use rinne tensei on himself? --[[User:Caseather|Caseather]] ([[User talk:Caseather|talk]]) 07:32, July 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
:Well, I'm not really sure, but I think that Madara couldn't because he had been reincarnated and not revived, and the user of the technique has to be alive. [[User:Leo Hatake|<span style="color:Orange; font-size:18px;">Leo</span>]][[User Talk:Leo Hatake|<span style="color:Green; font-size:18px">Hatake</span>]] 07:51, July 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
== Outer Path ==
 
I have a question: When and how was it stated that Madara was a user of the Outer Path? [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 19:10, July 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
:He has the Rinnegan so he would automatically be able to use the Outer Path. Although, if this isn't referenced in the article, that's a bit of a conclusion to be making from nothing. --[[User:Speysider|Speysider]] <sup><small>[[User_talk:Speysider|Talk Page]] | [[User:Speysider/Images|My Image Uploads]] | [[User:Speysider/Tabber Code|Tabber Code]] | [http://youtube.com/LPSajuuk Channel]</small></sup> 19:12, July 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
::By that standart we'd had to add the full package of the Six Paths like the Sage has, yet we don't. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 19:14, July 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::I actually think this is a remnant from when the black rods were thought to be an Outer Path ability. The Outer Path article has to be changed to conform to what we know now as well. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 20:04, July 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
== Susanoo ==
 
Doesn't it strike anyone, that I the recent chapter (641), Madara's "Final Susanoo" looks different from it's previous form? it looks larger, bulkier, and not to mention, it is covering Madara's complete susanoo, like large armor, with Madara inside of it. Doesn't this deserve mention? [[File: Senju_Symbol.svg|20px]]'''KotoSenju''' ''('''OldUser:'''JaZZBaND)''-[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|Contributions]] 02:17, August 1, 2013 (UTC)
 
:What are you talking about? It was still forming, hence the looks--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 11:35, August 1, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
== New madara image ==
 
 
Hi! i recently made this through trial and error of madara, i really would like it if it was put to use on madara's page! --[[User:AsuraDrago|AsuraDrago]] ([[User talk:AsuraDrago|talk]]) 20:29, August 1, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
[[File:Madara_arrival.jpg|thumb|full view of madara]]
 
 
:1) We don't just add every random image uploaded here to articles, they are added if they serve a use on the page.
 
:2) Your image will most certainly not be added because it is a violation of the [[Image policy]] --[[User:Speysider|Speysider]] <sup><small>[[User_talk:Speysider|Talk Page]] | [[User:Speysider/Images|My Image Uploads]] | [[User:Speysider/Tabber Code|Tabber Code]] | [http://youtube.com/LPSajuuk Channel]</small></sup> 20:35, August 1, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
== Infobox image ==
 
 
I'm not sure if it's part of the image policy to have a character appear in their earliest state in the series or not but the old image we used for Madara's infobox was far superior to the new one, in my opinion. Madara's most commonly seen wearing his armor and in the old pic it was seen from a better viewing angle and you could see his whole face as well. Better artwork, better viewing angle for an infobox, better photo overall. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 07:32, August 4, 2013 (UTC)
 
:[[#Profile Picture]].''' ~ [[User:UltimateSupreme|<span style="color:blue;">Ultimate</span>]][[User talk:UltimateSupreme|<span style="color:#EE2C2C;">Supreme</span>]]''' 07:35, August 4, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
== Possible infobox image ==
 
 
Since color seems to be a concern a lot of people had about the original one we used, and the current one is a placeholder until we get a decent image of him with his armor and gunbai, I went ahead and uploaded this image. It's not perfect and he's missing a glove, but we can crop that if it's a big enough deal. In my opinion it's still superior to the one we're currently using if anyone can find a version with more clarity and higher resolution, and it has the benefit of not having the nighttime shading. Thoughts?
 
[[Media:Madara Alive.png]]
 
 
--[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 23:44, August 7, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
While the colour is much better, his face doesn't look good. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 01:38, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 
: I'm of the same opinion. Just wait until we get some more alive pics during the coming flashbacks. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 02:21, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
The face doesn't detract from it too much once it's inserted into the infobox. I did a preview to test it, check it out out and see what you think.[http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv333/Unholyflame/Madara_Infobox_Test_zps20596aea.png] Personally at the very least I think it looks better than the current one we're using. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 03:01, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 
: The current one we're using has a focus on his face, which is preferred over a full-body shot (where one can be avoided), he is facing the camera, and is in his most recognizable form while in life. The picture you provided, one, has inaccuracies in it; namely the gloves and the color of the gunbai (Kishi retconed its color to a light purple), ''and'' the face looks distorted. There is nothing wrong with the current one, whose only flaw is that it is in the nighttime shading, until we get one that shows him alive and in the day, up close. Those old flashback images of him are largely inaccurate and look odd. I'd say just leave it as it is. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 06:20, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Well, Madara's face for some reason looks better in death than it did in life, as there it never looked good anyway ;D Perhaps reviving him beyond his prime came with plastic surgery included--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 10:52, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
== Infobox image ==
 
 
I think Madara's face looks better in death than it did in life. I think is because he doesn't have his heandband and got the rinnegan. Why we could not change a image of Madara resurructed with his rinnegan on his infobox image?--[[User:Zi Hao Lau|Zi Hao Lau]] ([[User talk:Zi Hao Lau|talk]]) 03:26, August 9, 2013 (UTC)Zi Hao Lau
 
 
:We usually try to get a picture that shows their face and how they are (no pain faces, awkward screen captures, etc.). Admittedly, I dislike the face pic they have now but I don't think we should have one of where he's dead. Wasn't there a better one that was used around 2 months ago? [[User_Talk:Joshbl56|<span style="color:green;">Joshbl56</span>]] 10:08, August 9, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Yeah, but it was changed to this one because the former was gray scaled. Personally I don't see why, the old one was perfect and depicted Madara as he appeared in life whilst still fitting the infobox just fine. Plus the new one has night time shading which isn't much different from a gray scaled photo to begin with. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 17:55, August 9, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
I think that the the new photo is worse than the old one...--[[User:Zi Hao Lau|Zi Hao Lau]] ([[User talk:Zi Hao Lau|talk]]) 03:08, August 11, 2013 (UTC)Zi Hao Lau
 
 
I propose the old image be back or something better because what's currently in use is a horrible depiction of Madara. I also want to propose a change to the image policy of having Anime pictures over Manga because lets face it, the animators sometimes do a pretty horrible job with certain characters and jutsu.--[[User:Narutofox94|Narutofox94]] ([[User talk:Narutofox94|talk]]) 08:42, August 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
I have a possible info box image, that is similar to the one that is now. But it shows more of his face. If anyone would like to see it. [[User:Zelwolf|Zelwolf]] ([[User talk:Zelwolf|talk]]) 14:36, September 19, 2013 (UTC)Zelwolf
 
 
== Animated GIFS ==
 
Since none of the anime screen shots depicting Madara's abilities are as eye-catching as they are in the manga, should we try adding in animated GIFs to show off his kenjutsu, taijutsu and rinnegan?[[User:Malcasablanca|Malcasablanca]] ([[User talk:Malcasablanca|talk]]) 04:22, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
 
: No. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 05:16, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
==No Access To EMS techs when accessing Rinnegan==
 
 
In Madara's page its stated that he hasn't shown his EMS abilities with Rinnegan active, with the exception of Susanoo. It is worth mentioning this since Madara hasn't shown the use of Amaterasu or Tsukuyomi in the manga or anime yet, even with his EMS. I am not stating that he can't use those techs I am saying that he hasn't shown them with EMS either so what is the point of mentioning this with Rinnegan?--[[User:ElvinWindSword|ElvinWindSword]] ([[User talk:ElvinWindSword|talk]]) 00:09, September 22, 2013 (UTC)ElvinWindSword
 
:Nailed it, the whole "can't access" thing is a speculation imo either way--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 11:07, September 22, 2013 (UTC)
 
::It's been concluded he had access to Mangekyo abilities with his Rinnegan active months ago. We had that discussion about if to consider Susanoo a Rinnegan tech, and we concluded that no the Rinnegan did not cancel out Susanoo moves. Why it was not reflected here was mere oversight.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 11:17, September 22, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::Can someone point me that discussion? I still don't understand how Madara needing to switch to the Sharingan constitutes "Rinnegan not cancelling Sharingan powers". [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 16:55, September 22, 2013 (UTC)
 
::::[[Talk:Susanoo/Archive_2#Rinnegan_.3F|Here]]. Though re-reading it it doesn't exactly say the Rinnegan does or doesn't cancel Sharingan abilities. It does say it doesn't prevent him from using Sharingan abilities.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 17:15, September 22, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::::I made the edit based off what Elvin said, in addition to what Elveo-sama said in the past. I wasnt aware of this discussion either O.O. But, im glad to know it was discussed deeply at some point. [[File: Senju_Symbol.svg|20px]]'''KotoSenju''' ''('''OldUser:'''JaZZBaND)''-[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|Contributions]] 19:14, September 22, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Now I'm super confused who says what. What is everyone's stance on the subject again? We list [[Tengai Shinsei]] as a Rinnegan technique, while at the same time Susanoo is a parent and we saw more times him using Susanoo with Rinnegan. I wonder how did we come to the conclusion that he can't use Mangekyou Sharingan powers with Rinnegan, I think some argued something about his clones and or him switching from Rinnegan to Mangekyou in order to put A under genjutsu.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:22, September 22, 2013 (UTC)
 
:For me, him or his clones requiring to shift back to EMS to cast genjutsu is proof that not all of his EMS powers are available to him with Rinnegan. Tengai Shinsei is listed as a Rinnegan technique because of the exchange between Madara and Kabuto just before Madara uses it, about who the power of the Sage of the Six Paths, which is the Rinnegan. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 20:20, September 22, 2013 (UTC)
 
:Just my speculation, but perhaps the Rinnegan can use Sharingan ninjutsu but not genjutsu (since Rinnegan is ninjutsu eye after all). All in all, the sentence has been removed I think. It should just be noted somewhere that he switched it, rather than saying he can't use one set of powers while using the other. I don't think 1 instance is proof of anything, especially considering Susanoo works, no sense justifying why genjutsu wouldn't/doesn't. For all we know, he could have used it on A with Rinnegan but didn't do so purposely... red is cooler.
 
EDIT: why is Susanoo even listed as a parent to [[Tengai Shinsei]]? All it did were hand seal and for all we know Madara could have used his own hands--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:51, September 22, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
: Then that begs the question why he resummoned his Susanoo as he was forming the seals for Tengai Shinsei. Got any speculation for that? How about how he would be able to use four seals at the same time with his own hands? Hm? ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 21:58, September 22, 2013 (UTC)
 
::I still don't see what was wrong with that sentence. We did see him having to change to EMS. If anything, it can be reworded to something like "With the exception of Susanoo, Madara has not been observed to access his EMS powers while using the Rinnegan, for example, requiring to change it back to cast genjutsu". [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 22:07, September 22, 2013 (UTC)
 

Latest revision as of 14:10, December 24, 2014

Icon-Archive
Archives

Hashirama Face Implant Edit

Like, it's gone.--KotoTalk Page-My Contributions 17:44, August 28, 2014 (UTC)

When Kaguya left his body, it probably reverted back to his base form. Any alien entities, no matter how well ingrained, probably left with her. I'm gonna assume the Rinnegan is gone too. --Atrix471 (talk) 18:32, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
Likely an oversight--Elveonora (talk) 19:09, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
I'd wait for the next chapter. If Madara reappeared, it means he has still some role to play.--Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna JOA20 19:18, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
He is dead, without the slightest doubt. Seriously, I'm Madara's fan too, but why some people can't get over his death? Yes, it was half-assed, but it happened.--Elveonora (talk) 19:22, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
@Elveo, Multiple screenshots were shown without the Hashi face implant. Why think it's an oversight? -- KotoTalk Page-My Contributions 19:25, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
@Elveo, I'm not saying Madara isn't dead, just that he, either his body or soul, has some role to play, otherwise Kishi wouldn't have bothered to make the Kages teleport his body back to Earth as well.--Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna JOA20 19:26, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
Let's be honest, Hashirama just wanted to be with his bestie one last time... --Atrix471 (talk) 19:29, August 28, 2014 (UTC)

Dead? Edit

How can we be absolutely sure Madara's dead? He could just be unconscious. --Mandon (talk) 19:32, August 28, 2014 (UTC)

We aren't, people just like to make assumptions. --Atrix471 (talk) 19:33, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
Yes, we are. When a Tailed Beast gets extracted, the jinchuuriki dies. In addition, he was already dead the moment Kaguya took over--Elveonora (talk) 19:36, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
Generally speaking, when someone is stabbed and their body is used as a medium for the revival of another, they are dead. Considering that Madara's body was used as a medium to revive Kaguya, I would be very surprised if he's still alive. For now, Presumed Deceased is staying, unless a new chapter states he isn't. --SuperSajuuk Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | Channel 19:37, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
Not only Kaguya took over which killed him, but also it is the manga's rule that extraction of a Tailed Beast kills the jinchuuriki.--Elveonora (talk) 19:40, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
Obito got impaled through the chest and later forced to use a jutsu that guarantees death and he still lived through it. Besides, Madara's wounds are all gone now.. it's very possible that he's currently alive and will get a proper death scene in the next chapter. --Mandon (talk) 19:44, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
We don't do "I think it's possible" the difference is that Obito had Black Zetsu, Gedo Mazo and Naruto's Jesus hand to keep him alive.--Elveonora (talk) 19:47, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
Please, we all know Kishi physically cannot leave a villain die without being redeemed in some way. If Madara dies, how will TNJ work? --Atrix471 (talk) 19:49, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
All I'm saying is we can and should wait until there's absolutely no doubt he's dead. That's why we listed him as "Presumed Deceased" even after his existence was seemingly wiped out with Kaguya's revival. You've been told this time and time again Elv but for the millionth time, stop jumping to conclusions and editing articles with conjecture. Remember a few years ago when you opted for us to wait a week when Tobi was unmasked, even though all the evidence pointed to him being Obito? I hate it when people hold others to a standard they can't adhere to.. so like I said, let's just wait. --Mandon (talk) 19:52, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
I think people are forgetting that the Tailed Beast Extraction killing the user rule doesn't apply too Jinchuriki's of the Shinju it only leaves them paralyzed.--Thdyingbreed (talk) 22:06, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
If he really is dead, how can he be summoned? You are too quick to assume that Madara is dead, just like when you turned out to be wrong about Obito. Also, it was never confirmed that he died when Kaguya took over. Patsoumas1995 (talk) 23:15, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
@Thdying, that's not what was stated. The reason Hagoromo survived was because he extracted only the chakra while leaving the body of the Ten-Tails inside of him, which kept him alive but resulted in paralysis.
@Patsoumas, Pains are corpses, they can be summoned. Kunai and Shuriken are inanimate, they can be summoned, your point?--Elveonora (talk) 09:43, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
Pain's corpses are reanimated through the power of the Rinnengan, and the Kunai & Shuriken are summoned through scrolls, not Summoning Technique. When a person dies, his chakra disappears, so how would Madara be summoned if he is dead? And also, I don't think that it is stated that the Jinchuriki dies immediately after the Bijuu is extracted. Patsoumas1995 (talk) 10:09, August 30, 2014 (UTC)
The only point that matters is that Madara isn't definitively confirmed to be deceased, therefore we can't call him deceased. --Mandon (talk) 18:31, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
Except he is. Do I need to slap the chapter and page onto your face where Zetsu says how it's a rule that when a Tailed Beast is extracted, the jinchuuriki dies? Seriously, I like Madara too, but this fanboy bias is getting out of control. How you feel towards a certain character shouldn't affect what you want to go or don't want to go into his/her article.--Elveonora (talk) 18:35, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
Didn't seem to kill Killer B all that much. He's alive until he we know he's dead, though death is likely. "Presumed Deceased".--TheUltimate3 Eye of Rikudō (talk) 18:56, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
You beat me, well done, okay then. (I wonder how B survived though, the tentacle things makes me go crazy)--Elveonora (talk) 19:00, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
Need I remind you Elv that Madara still had the gedo statue inside of him [or Kaguya] when the TB's were extracted? That rule doesn't apply here. Madara was never explicitly confirmed to be dead, therefore we wait. --Mandon (talk) 19:38, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
He didn't/doesn't have the "statue"--Elveonora (talk) 19:48, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
He did when the Tailed Beasts were extracted, thus removing the certainty of death. --Mandon (talk) 20:55, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
Yin-Kurama stated that Ten-Tails' jinchūriki survive the tailed beasts' extraction only if they have the Demonic Statue in their body because of its strong life force – meaning, if the Statue is extracted as well, the jinchūriki's case is no different from any other tailed beast's jinchūriki.--Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna JOA20 21:06, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
I think you both need to re-read the chapter because you don't seem to remember the order of events. It wasn't Statue > Tailed beasts. It was Tailed Beasts > Statue, meaning the tailed beasts were extracted from Kaguya/Madara while the statue was still inside them and then the statue/Kaguya spat out Madara, meaning the effects of the statue are still in place. --Mandon (talk) 00:43, August 30, 2014 (UTC)
There are no lasting effects. The "statue" keeps them alive only for as long as it's inside, not once it's extracted as well.--Elveonora (talk) 12:39, August 30, 2014 (UTC)
If the jinchuriki dies immediately after the Biju/Gedo Mazo is removed, why was Obito still alive after Black Zetsu left his body? He had the Gedo Mazo & the 9 Biju extracted from his body AND he had used the Rinne Tensei. I'm sure Madara will eventually die after the extraction, but nothing says that he is already dead. Patsoumas1995 (talk) 15:33, August 30, 2014 (UTC)
And as we all said, Madara was still alive. Patsoumas1995 (talk) 11:39, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
To say 2 sentences, thus was dead.--Elveonora (talk) 11:40, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
He was still alive, and died after that. It's different being dead & close to death. Patsoumas1995 (talk) 12:36, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
Now he's very obviously dead, can we stop this discussion and update the infobox? --SuperSajuuk Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | Channel 12:39, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
Not saying he isn't dead now, I'm saying that he wasn't dead in the previous chapter, as some were hurried to assume. Patsoumas1995 (talk) 12:45, September 4, 2014 (UTC)

There's no need to pick at people with hindsight. Let it simply be a lesson to people not to jump the gun when they think somebody's dead. Nobody was denying he'd probably die in the next chapter anyways. --Mandon (talk) 17:15, September 4, 2014 (UTC)

Storm Release is not his kekkei genkai Edit

He gained it by becoming the Juubie's jinchuriki, just like Rosh and Naruto gained Lava Release from Son, its not a kekkei genkai it's a tailed beast skill.--Hunter4522 (talk) 23:26, August 28, 2014 (UTC)

We don't know for sure either way, you can't be so sure.--Elveonora (talk) 09:43, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
The ones that posses all bijuu chakras can create the truth seeking ball and have all the chakra natures and kekkei genkai--Hunter4522 (talk) 15:11, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
Actually, no such thing was stated in official translation about all kekkei genkai. Fire, Wind, Earth, Lightning, Wood, Yin, Yang were attributed to Kaguya, with Wood possibly being an error, supposed to be Water instead.--Elveonora (talk) 18:30, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
So how is Wood Release a kekkei genkai? Is it because the Uchiha and Senju are both descended from the Sage of the Six Paths? I thought Wood Release was only a Senju kekkei genkai...Banan14kab

Wind release Edit

I thought Madara's wind release was anime only so why is that caption gone?--Rinneganmaster (talk) 20:07, August 31, 2014 (UTC)

Because he used Storm Release, which is made up of Wind and Water. • Seelentau 愛 20:11, August 31, 2014 (UTC)
That would be Ice... Lightning and Water you mean. You should go to bed :P--Elveonora (talk) 20:12, August 31, 2014 (UTC)
...hmph. • Seelentau 愛 20:12, August 31, 2014 (UTC)

Exactly, I believe we should put anime only.--Rinneganmaster (talk) 23:00, August 31, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, why was the anime only tag removed?--WindStar7125 WindStar7125 Task (Talk) (Contribs) 00:37, September 1, 2014 (UTC)

Hey shouldn't the Storm Release be listed in Madara's kekkei genkai, after all it is an advance chakra nature and a bloodline trait. I mean I know Madara only acessed it through like the six paths senjutsu but still it should be added its a form of kekkei genkai. i'm not saying that we should list his storm release jutsu as a kekkei genkai, but just simply put it in his infobox. --Tuxedo12 (talk) 04:38, September 3, 2014 (UTC)

We don't know how he could use it. Stating it was because of jinchuuriki status is no more speculative than stating it was because of kkg, because at the end of the day, we don't know--Elveonora (talk) 08:24, September 3, 2014

(UTC)

Did Kaguya say the Truthseeking ball is made of all elements? If that's true than Madara's a wind release user.--Rinneganmaster (talk) 21:13, September 4, 2014 (UTC)

There's a still an argument going if the description was about her own alone or in general--Elveonora (talk) 21:15, September 4, 2014 (UTC)

Loss of Rinnegan Edit

Since when, I wonder, does a loss of Hashirama's face mean Madara has lost his Rinnegan, when he didn't have that when he awoke those eyes? Thats not confirmed anywhere. Nor is it conformed that a loss of hashirama's cells at all would mean he lost the Rinnegan. Its a kekkei genkai and was in his blood from the time he awakened it. (The Fox King (talk) 21:59, September 4, 2014 (UTC))

The manga made it quite clear, Madara lost all his enhancements before death. If he still had Hashirama's cells, they would have helped him survive like they did with Obito. If he still had his Rinnegan, Mdara's eyes would have still shown it. The Rinnegan was only awoken by a combination of Indra and Asura's chakra, and Madara lost Asura's chakra thus his eyes reverted back to the state they were before. Its really quite simple. --SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 22:14, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
Madara is able to switched between Rinnegan and other dojutsu at will, and may just have been too weak to keep it active at death. Again, we don't know he lost all of hashirama's cells, just the face, which wasn't there at the start. Plus Rinnegan isn't an enhancement for Madara, its naturally his. --The Fox King (talk) 22:19, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
@Saiyaman No, that really is quite stupid. Madara's eyes did exactly what Itachi's did when he died and turned back into their normal form. Madara awakened the Rinnegan. It doesn't just disappear. When they run out of chakra, their eyes go back to normal, because the eyes require chakra to remain active. So, before you try again, SuperSaiyaMan, you are not to add anything about Madara losing the Rinnegan because he didn't. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Rinnegan Sasuke 22:21, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
Uh, we see the Sharingan still in his eyes meaning that comparison doesn't make sense, Ten-Tailed Fox. The tomoe were still there. And Hagoromo made it clear how a Rinnegan is awoken: Indra and Asura's chakra mixes together, bringing out Hagoromo's. If Madara still possessed Hashirama's cells, why did he die so quickly compared to Obito? --SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 22:24, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
Obito had things like the Gedo Statue, Black Zetsu, a higher concentration of Hashirama's cells, and Naruto's "Jesus" hand keeping him alive all that time at different points. Thats why. Madara had, at the end from the looks of it, at best just the cells he stuck in his chest originally, which again we don't know he lost and none of those other things. --The Fox King (talk) 22:27, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
Um, @SuperSaiyaMan, where are the tomoe? I see no Sharingan in his eyes at all. They just look blank. --WindStar7125 WindStar7125 Task WindStar7125's Task 22:30, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
Page 9, bottom right panel. You see the Tomoe in the edges. Though if Ten Tailed Fox doesn't want it to be put down, okay. Maybe in the next chapters we'll get some confirmation since no one in their right mind would want those Rinnegan to stay around with Orochimaru being there. --SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 22:34, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
I've already seen the page, I know what I said when I typed in "They just look blank." Those aren't tomoe. It looks like he used Izanagi twice or something. --WindStar7125 WindStar7125 Task WindStar7125's Task 22:39, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
If the Rinnengan disappears when Indra's & Asura's chakra are not combined, how could Nagato, who only has Indra's through the eyes, keep the Rinnengan active? --Patsoumas1995 (talk) 23:21, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
I think its due to being a Uzumaki and Senju descendant he was able to maintain the implanted Rinnegan, given both clans are descended from Asura. --SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 00:40, September 5, 2014 (UTC)
I suppose that's why he was called 3rd Six Paths despite it having been just an implant --Elveonora (talk) 10:12, September 5, 2014 (UTC)

Dead 3 times Edit

Madara has never died 3 times during the entire series, but 2. He died the first time when he was an old man, he got revived during the war by Obito's Rinne Tensei and died for his second and last time when Kaguya was defeated and Madara had the Jubi extracted from his body. I red over there that some users are taking madara's status when Kaguya took over his body as dead, which is not right. He just was unconscious, deeply inside Kaguya. And the irrefutable fact that he had never died after this event, despite some characters of the series thinking the opposite (Tobirama's attempt to use Edo Tensei), is clearly given to us 2 chapters ago; Kaguya defeated, and Madara ALIVE sharing his last moments with Hashirama. Please, we have to begin to use common sense when we create discussion articles. Have that trivia note about his deaths erased, it's not true. --KILLERBEE479 (talk) 19:07, September 10, 2014 (UTC)

The first time he died at Hashirama's hands and revived himself through Izanagi. The Second as an old man. The Third time was after extracting the Tailed Beasts.--MERCURIOUS (talk) 19:11, September 10, 2014 (UTC)

Fire Release Edit

is it safe to assume that fire is his affinity, and maybe add it to the infobox...based on the fact that uchiha members have affinity for & proficiency with it...also for the most part of the series he used this nature more over the others... --DARK ZER06 (talk) 11:50, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

No assumptions. For example according to the anime, Sasuke's affinity is Lightning. And yeah, I know manga > anime, but we can't ignore the anime. But just in case the anime is correct in Lightning being Sasuke's affinity, then it may be possible for someone to have 2 affinities. In fact, according to the anime, advanced nature kekkei genkai = having affinity for 2 natures thus being capable to merge them. They pulled this outta their arses, because Kishi said no such thing, but again, in case they are right, then Sasuke's affinities may be both Fire and Lightning and taking the kekkei genkai part into consideration, it would explain Blaze Release :D :D :D--Elveonora (talk) 11:56, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
There can't be two affinities, because that would not be what an affinity is. • Seelentau 愛 11:59, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
Tell that to Studio Pierrot :P In fact, there may be 3 (Kekkei Tota) according to them. Now I mention it, I don't think we have documented this anywhere, we simply ignored it I guess--Elveonora (talk) 12:03, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

well if someone has affinity for 2 natures or more then it's not necessary to put it for both natures at all...but if someone like naruto or kakashi has an affinity for one nature & uses that one nature more that other natures as in kakashi's case then it's right to put affinity for that nature in the infobox...I'm suggesting the same for madara's fire...and maybe obito too now that I think about it...since he too hade fire as his original nature and used it more that other natures...and possibly any other character with these conditions...like...idk temari for example...or kitsuchi...or earth for onoki...hope I've made my point clear... --DARK ZER06 (talk) 12:06, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

Frequency of nature's usage isn't necessarily a determinant of an affinity.--Elveonora (talk) 12:08, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

then what is... --DARK ZER06 (talk) 12:11, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

Affinity means natural talent towards a certain nature... a genetic predisposition if you will.--Elveonora (talk) 12:14, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

doesn't madara have that natural talent & genetic predisposition towards fire?...based on what V've seen from him in the manga... --DARK ZER06 (talk) 12:21, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

Likely, but we weren't told Fire is his affinity, so we can't assume so--Elveonora (talk) 12:23, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

sooo...V R putting the term affinity for only 2 characters in the entire series in this wiki & not for other characters with similar conditions?...ok --DARK ZER06 (talk) 12:26, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

Because we were told what those characters' affinities are.--Elveonora (talk) 12:29, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

Changes Edit

I think we should remove Outer Path: Samsara of Heavenly Life Technique from Madara's jutsu list. Just because he forced Obito to perform it doesn't mean Madara can use the jutsu. Obito can use the jutsu not Madara.--Rinneganmaster (talk) 21:39, September 19, 2014 (UTC)

Obito was using Madara's Rinnegan in the first place. And also, the Outer Path is a derived technique of the Six Paths Technique. Read the article I just linked. Anyone who can use the SPT has access to the powers in the article. Including the Outer Path. --WindStar7125 WindStar7125 Task WindStar7125's Task 21:46, September 19, 2014 (UTC)

I'm not saying Madara can't use the Outer Path, I'm saying he can't be a user of the Outer Path: Heavenly Life jutsu. Madara didn't use the jutsu, he forced Obito to perform it. Therefore I think we should remove samsara of heavely life jutsu from Madara's jutsu inbox. Madara can use the outer path since he can perform the demonic statue chains. --Rinneganmaster (talk) 22:19, September 19, 2014 (UTC)

My point is, the Six Paths Technique grants those abilities. If Madara can use the Six Paths Technique, he can use the Outer Path, and therefore can use the Outer Path: Samsara of Heavenly Life Technique. He won't be removed. And like I said, Obito was using Madara's Rinnegan. --WindStar7125 WindStar7125 Task WindStar7125's Task 22:32, September 19, 2014 (UTC)

And plus, of course Madara was using it, with his artificial Rinnegan and real Rinnegan through Obito. You can't convince anyone that didn't happen, that it was all Obito and had nothing to do with Madara. And I'll say it again, Obito was using Madara's Rinnegan. Of course Madara can use it, all of the powers Obito and Nagato used come from him. --WindStar7125 WindStar7125 Task WindStar7125's Task 22:45, September 19, 2014 (UTC) Just because you can use the Outer Path doesn't mean you can use all of the derivative jutsus from it. As a rinnegan user, you have access to all of the rinnegan powers and therefore you are a user of every path power. However just because you know them doesn't mean you can use all of the derived techniques. If you claim all the powers of Nagato and Obito are Madara's you are saying Madara should be a user of Shinra Tensei which he hasn't demonstrated. Madara never demonstrated Samsara Jutsu on his own. He only forced Obito to perform that jutsu on himself.--Rinneganmaster (talk) 07:19, September 20, 2014 (UTC)

Forcing Obito use it means Madara can use it--Elveonora (talk) 10:26, September 20, 2014 (UTC)

How does forcing someone to perform a jutsu make that person a user? Madara could had been mentally forcing Obito to give in to his wish? --Rinneganmaster (talk) 01:50, September 21, 2014 (UTC)

You can't delete discussions unless they are forum talk or theories. This discussion does not violate the deletion policy nor the talkpage policy. This is the property of the wiki community. Once you make it, you can't delete it, otherwise you'll be violating the policies. --WindStar7125 WindStar7125 Task WindStar7125's Task 01:56, September 21, 2014 (UTC)

I accidentally clicked deletion category by accident. But my question for this discussion is how does forcing a user to perform a jutsu makes that person a user too? Madara never used it, it was Obito.--Rinneganmaster (talk) 02:02, September 21, 2014 (UTC) How does madara forcing obito to perform the jutsu make madara a user too?--Rinneganmaster (talk) 22:39, September 23, 2014 (UTC)

Rinnegan Ownership Edit

So in Madara's Rinnegean subsection it says that he can use the Rinnegan to their full potentail/ability because the eyes are originally his. While I agree this makes sense the real question here is that is this correct as Madara technically had Izuna's eyes at the point. So the eyes weren't "originally his", but he did naturally awaken them. I don't know I just thought it was best to discuss it here first before making changes. Banan14kab 20:49, October 17, 2014 (UTC)

Nevermind this post. I understand what was meant by the sentence. Banan14kab 07:23, October 21, 2014 (UTC)

Specificity Edit

Given the manga is ending, should we start making these pages describe things more precisely? I've been doing that on a few pages like this one but they keep getting reverted. Can someone explain to me why?Cloudtheavenger (talk) 23:37, October 31, 2014 (UTC)

Articles are supposed to be summaries of their topics. They are not supposed be repositories for everything that can possibly be said about their topic. If you want to improve specification by, for example, adding references: that's great! If you want to improve specification by, for example, transcribing an entire conversation: that's not what the wiki is meant for. ~SnapperTo 02:46, November 1, 2014 (UTC)

Broken mobile EMS icon image in infobox Edit

Pretty minor issue, but it's been troubling me. The Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan icon image in Madara's infobox is broken on the mobile site for some reason. Any quick fix for something like this?--Minamoto15 (talk) 01:49, November 16, 2014 (UTC)

Additional Missing Techniques? Edit

This is the for last time, I promise I will keep my end of the bargain, but I notice 

that there are still two techniques missing namely when he fought Hashirama Senju at
the Valley of the End, the techniques being Tailed Beast Ball and 
Continuous Tailed Beast Balls, are they at all worth adding at all, yes or no?--JustaNobody (talk) 04:11, November 28, 2014 (UTC)
My eyes bleeding from your post! But anyway Tailed Beast Ball's were used by Kurama who was controled by Madara, so no. ./ Rage gtx (talk) 04:25, November 28, 2014 (UTC)

How about these two techniques: Rinnegan Summoning, Six Paths Sage Technique, Truth-Seeking Ball and Healing Power?--JustaNobody (talk) 15:29, December 11, 2014 (UTC)

Umm.. except Rinnegan Summoning we have seen those other technique and those technique are already Linked to Madara Uchiha, and yeah add it but add Manga only for now except Healing.Naruto uzu6254 (talk) 13:46, December 12, 2014 (UTC)

Rinnegan Techs Edit

I brought this up in the databook discussions forum as well, but I figured this would be a good spot to bring it up. Nagato uses Shinra Tensei, Banshō Ten'in, Summoning Rinnegan, Absorption Soul technique, etc. All these techs are derived from what's called the Six Paths Technique, which lay in the Rinnegan that belonged to Madara. Is there a reason outside of the faulty reasoning of "he didn't show them" why Madara doesn't have these techs listed?--Minamoto15 (talk) 14:10, December 24, 2014 (UTC)

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