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<center><big><big><big>SPECULATION WILL BE REMOVED</big></big></big></center>
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== Deceased vs. Incapacitated ==
   
== Amaterasu ==
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His body exploded to pieces, and in his place Kaguya returns to life. How is he incapacitated? He should be noted as deceased, like Obito is now. [[User:Yatanogarasu|Yatanogarasu]] ([[User_talk:Yatanogarasu|Talk]]) 06:29, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
   
When was it stated in the manga that having Susanoo and Tsukuyomi automatically meant you had Amaterasu??? cause Madara and Obito both claimed to be able to use Tsukuyomi, and while it is true that both Sasuke and Itachi were able to use all 3 jutsu, Tobi showed surprise at Sasuke using Susanoo, even though he knew Sasuke had Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi....... Madara wasn't shown using Amaterasu yet so isn't him knowing just speculation??? those 3 jutsu being a package deal was never once stated as fact...... or am I wrong, cause if so, what chapter???
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I could be wrong but I doubt Kishimoto would kill off someone like Madara like that. With that immortality he acquired, I'm not sure what to believe about his status even if he is blown to bits.--[[User:Hockey Machete|Hockey Machete]] ([[User talk:Hockey Machete|talk]]) 06:33, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
--[[User:Deathmailrock|Deathmailrock]] ([[User talk:Deathmailrock|talk]]) 08:27, May 2, 2013 (UTC)
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:Well, Madara's body kind of "shrunk down", it isn't like he went "boom" and then Kaguya appeared. It's a bit weird, that much at least.--[[User:JOA20|JOA20]] ([[User talk:JOA20|talk]]) 06:35, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
:It was stated in a databook.'''~ [[User:UltimateSupreme|<span style="color:blue;">Ultimate</span>]][[User talk:UltimateSupreme|<span style="color:#EE2C2C;">Supreme</span>]]''' 08:36, May 2, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
== About Jutsu ==
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I think Madara isn't completely dead yet, as Hashi taught Sasuke a jutsu that responds to the senjutsu chakra Madara absorbed from Hashi, in an effort to stop and save him. [[User:Wisenoob|Wisenoob]] ([[User talk:Wisenoob|talk]]) 06:56, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
   
This is mistaken or what? but I didn't see Susano'o as Madara Technique at Jutsu List, please fix it.[[Special:Contributions/203.201.173.210|203.201.173.210]] ([[User talk:203.201.173.210|talk]]) 04:52, May 5, 2013 (UTC)
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Presumed Deceased exists for cases like this one--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 10:57, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
:Infobox bug. No infobox is currently showing jutsu characters have only used in the manga, but that have already appeared in the anime being used by someone else. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 04:56, May 5, 2013 (UTC)
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:Madara was transformed into Kaguya. That's more like incapacitated than presumed deceased. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 11:10, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
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::Except incapacitated sounds like a temporary condition. Do you expect Kaguya to mutate back into Madara or something?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 11:20, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
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:::That Kaguya would relinquish control, no. That it would be feasible, yes. We've seen the other tailed beasts coming back into existence after they were merged into the Shinju, this isn't much different. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 11:46, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
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::::They actually weren't merged, they were simply inside the statue. Madara isn't deceased only if his consciousness is still there somewhere and his soul hasn't gone to the pure world. Although I don't see how could that be, considering he was torn apart--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:04, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::Seriously, how are people seeing him exploding and what not? When he reached critical mass and was completely covered by BZ, he clearly began shrinking back down, taking Kaguya's form. There was no tearing apart, no explosion. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 12:06, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
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::::::I meant those tumor-like blobs.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:13, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
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Abnormal growth, sign of instability, same thing happened to Obito before he got a firm grip on Shinju's power. Shrank down once it got stable, same here, just with the other side winning. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 12:16, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::::Right now, Incapacitated. No real way to know if he's a corpse or not which I doubt he is considering Kaguya just used his body to to become herself. Basically as long as Kaguya is alive, so is Madara, if only on a very technical sense.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 13:25, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
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The Truth Seeking Balls he placed on Hashirama and Minato disintegrated. Doesn't that indicate Madara's demise? [[User:Yatanogarasu|Yatanogarasu]] ([[User_talk:Yatanogarasu|Talk]]) 01:42, June 12, 2014 (UTC)
   
== all paths techniques ==
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It indicates Madara lost control over those items, just like how he lost control and was overtaken by Kaguya. [[User:WindStar7125|<font color="blue">'''''WindStar7125'''''</font>]] [[User talk:Windstar7125|<sub>(Talk)</sub>]][[User:WindStar7125|WindStar7125]] ([[User talk:WindStar7125|talk]]) 00:50, June 13, 2014 (UTC)
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: I think it indicates that he is indeed dead. His chakra can't maintain them anymore and if someone's chakra disappears, that means they're dead.--[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 01:54, June 13, 2014 (UTC)
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::Agreed. I think the presumed deceased tag is deserved in this instance. [[User:MangekyoSasuke|MangekyoSasuke]] ([[User talk:MangekyoSasuke|talk]]) 02:07, June 13, 2014 (UTC)
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::: Madara's chakra is gone and the remnants of his presence (his rods and TSB) have disintegrated. I agree. Presumed deceased should be the label used. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 06:20, June 13, 2014 (UTC)
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:::: He might be deader than dead too since his soul is presumably consumed or destroyed by Kaguya's takeover, thus his weapons disintegrating.--[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 02:10, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
   
When Madara was about to train Obito, he told him he is gonna teach six paths technique, meaning shouldn't we list him as a user also of others besides Preta and Deva? Not to mention he ordered Obito to use that black rod meaning Outer one too--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:09, May 9, 2013 (UTC)
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:::: It is possible that Madara has died, but it is still too early to say for sure, which is why "presumed deceased" is what should be used. The specifics of what exactly happened to Madara hasn't even been confirmed yet. All we have is speculation. Do you honestly think Madara would be killed off in a snap, without any actual closure? The fact that Black Zetsu rewrote the Uchiha stone tablet into saying the things that drove Madara over the edge even makes it possible that he might return to redeem himself. Madara's fate isn't clear, which is why we can only ''presume'' he's dead. [[User:Hot Cakes|Hot Cakes]] ([[User talk:Hot Cakes|talk]]) 21:44, June 24, 2014 (UTC)
:I pondered on your inquiry for a while, and come to think of it, I agree. I mean, by priciple alone, we've added Monzaemon's respected puppet techniques and we added Izanagi to Madara. [[User:JaZZBaND|JaZZBaND]] ([[User talk:JaZZBaND|talk]]) 13:33, May 9, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
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== Absorption Soul User ==
   
Madara knows and can use them all, so can Obito. I mean Obito taught Nagato all of the six paths techniques..... [[Special:Contributions/96.241.55.117|96.241.55.117]] ([[User talk:96.241.55.117|talk]]) 20:52, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
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Madara should be a user of the Absorption Soul Jutsu. Obito said he could use the human path to extract information and since Obito learned the Six Path Jutsu from Madara, that means Madara can use the Absorption Soul jutsu. Also Obito can perform Izanagi since he learned Uchiha forbidden techniques from Madara therefore making a Madara a user of the Izanagi. Same idea should apply to Madara also being a user of the Absorption Soul jutsu.--[[User:Rinneganmaster|Rinneganmaster]] ([[User talk:Rinneganmaster|talk]]) 19:42, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
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:That's why he has each Path technique listed, as in Animal Path, Deva Path, etc. This is a case where we don't have it as clearly defined as Deva Path and each individual technique. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 21:36, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
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Obito can use the Absorption Soul Jutsu no doubt about that. My point is that Madara should be able to use Absorption Soul Jutsu since Obito learned all of his rinnegan jutsu from Madara. --[[User:Rinneganmaster|Rinneganmaster]] ([[User talk:Rinneganmaster|talk]]) 05:36, June 5, 2014 (UTC)
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::Madara taught Obito Six Paths Technique. Omni's point is that a single Path (besides Deva and Outer which are known to have more) may have more than just one technique--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 11:04, June 5, 2014 (UTC)
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Okay that is reasonable.--[[User:Rinneganmaster|Rinneganmaster]] ([[User talk:Rinneganmaster|talk]]) 21:08, June 5, 2014 (UTC)
   
where does it say that obito taught nagato the six paths [[User:Actionmanrandell|Actionmanrandell]] ([[User talk:Actionmanrandell|talk]]) 23:33, July 2, 2013 (UTC)actionmanrandell[[User:Actionmanrandell|Actionmanrandell]] ([[User talk:Actionmanrandell|talk]]) 23:33, July 2, 2013 (UTC)
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== Page Images Vandalism ==
   
== Appearance during Konoha's founding? ==
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There are two images that were vandalized, in Personality section. One depicts the Flash, and the other... reminds me some achievement.--[[User:VolteMetalic|VolteMetalic]] ([[User talk:VolteMetalic|talk]]) 10:20, June 9, 2014 (UTC)
   
What color is Madara's shirt on the cover for Konohas founding?--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 00:17, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
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:Okay, I found some more. But they seem to be only when visually looking. When you click on it, it is correct. Hmm... odd.--[[User:VolteMetalic|VolteMetalic]] ([[User talk:VolteMetalic|talk]]) 10:24, June 9, 2014 (UTC)
:Looks blue/purple to me--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 00:39, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
It's hard for me to tell due to my own partial color-blindness, and that is what prevents me from properly telling what the exact color is, is it ok if I add that color to his appearance, yes, no, maybe? It's all up to you, you are admin after all Elveonora.--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 00:43, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
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==Strongest Uchiha?==
:Am I? Sucks no one told me until now, good to know... so my first act of as now official adminship is allowing you to add his shirt color, you don't have to thank me.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 00:58, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
Thank you, very much It's just best to discuss things with administration to learn whether or not, to add new things; to avoid getting warnings and being blocked.--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 01:06, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
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Now that Sasuke has attained the power of the Six Paths and overwhelmed Madara multiple times, should Madara still be listed as the strongest uchiha?--[[User:ElvinWindSword|ElvinWindSword]] ([[User talk:ElvinWindSword|talk]]) 23:19, June 12, 2014 (UTC)
:No problem. No one gets blocked for editing, but for vandalism etc.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 01:13, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
==Hashirama's quote==
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Interested in knowing also. Bump [[User:SusanooUnleashed|SusanooUnleashed]] ([[User talk:SusanooUnleashed|talk]]) 14:17, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
He didn't say Madara loved his brother more than Itachi. He said Madara probably loved/cared about his brother more than Hashirama himself towards Tobirama. In the raw he said "kisama no ani" (he called Sasuke "kimi").
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:Madara is still stronger.
--[[User:Hinoneko|Hinoneko]] ([[User talk:Hinoneko|talk]]) 08:53, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
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* more experience
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* YYR
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* 3 Rinnegan
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* Wood Release
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* Shinju's jinchuuriki
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While Sasuke is still young, has only Yin Release, 1 Rinnegan, (until confirmed otherwise) has no Wood Release and isn't a jinchuuriki. Am I missing something? Also it isn't our job to decide anyway, but the author's.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 14:38, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Final Susanoo worth adding? ==
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Not to mentioned Sasuke was never shown overwhelming Madara anyway. Madara both let him cut him in half and rendered everything Sasuke and Naruto threw at him in the end futile. ([[User:The Fox King|The Fox King]] [[User talk:The Fox King|(talk)]] 23:37, July 16, 2014 (UTC))
   
I hope someone can add Madara's complete Final Susanoo as separate picture under Madara's abilities and powers, it would be worth seeing due to give people a better idea of what it exactly looks like.--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 02:18, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
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== Deceased? ==
:Feel the same way. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 02:32, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
Does that mean somebody will add it?--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 02:59, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
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It's incredibly premature to list him as such since we know nothing about what happened to him. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 06:56, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Susanoo's resistance to attacks? ==
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I wouldn't say that. Remember when Kakashi died and his chakra completely vanished? Since Madara's chakra and anything related to it is gone, I'd say it's accurate to say that he's dead.--[[User:Hockey Machete|Hockey Machete]] ([[User talk:Hockey Machete|talk]]) 07:14, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
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:Death isn't the only thing that can make someone's chakra "vanish". When Sasuke hid inside Manda and unsummoned him his chakra was said to vanish. The fact that someone's chakra can no longer be sensed is not always a definitive indication as to their status.--[[User:Soul reaper|Soul reaper]] ([[User talk:Soul reaper|talk]]) 15:39, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
   
I was wondering it seems like Madara Uchiha's Susanoo has immunity to the Fifth Mizukage's when Mei Terumi, A, and Naruto attacked was not added as well even it showed it in the manga where it clearly withstood all three of the above mentioned; combined characters attacks all while having no effect on Madara's Susanoo ribcage at all. So is it worth mentioning?--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 22:29, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
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==Appearance of Mangekyou==
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Is there a need to describe what his Mangekyou looks like in the abilities section? Shouldn't that be placed into the appearance section, or the Mangekyou Sharingan page? [[User:Demonic Phoenix|D.Phoenix]] ([[User talk:Demonic Phoenix|talk]]) 05:47, June 18, 2014 (UTC)
   
As well as withstanding Might Guy's Daytime Tiger attack, and finally A and Onoki's combined aggravated rock technique, with all of that merely pushing back Madara's Susanoo, rather than actually harming it?--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 23:28, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
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== Susanoo clad Kurama anime picture? ==
:Susanoo is chakra, it's not alive in the sense of having a consciousness. It's quite similar to a tailed beast cloak.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:38, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
Still is it worth adding?--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 23:42, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
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Is the anime picture of Madara's final [[Susanoo]]-clad [[Kurama]] worth adding? If so? Can somebody please do so?--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 21:12, June 19, 2014 (UTC)
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:Not enough space. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 23:16, June 19, 2014 (UTC)
   
Harm might be a poor description, but damage is worth noting, considering when it came to Sasuke's Susanoo it's ribs melted when Mei attacked it and A broke them with a back hand. So by comparison Madara's seems a lot sturdier. --[[User:Hawkeye2701|Hawkeye2701]] ([[User talk:Hawkeye2701|talk]]) 23:50, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
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Maybe by removing repetitive lines, maybe that can free up some space to add the picture, and have those removed lines added to the [[Mangekyō Sharingan]] overview and info? Maybe? Maybe not?--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 23:40, June 19, 2014 (UTC)
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:That's very rich coming from you, your Madara edits are the most repetitive and over-bloating there are. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 01:35, June 20, 2014 (UTC)
   
Isn't his Susanoo's sturdiness already rather well described? I mean, he have some mentions of what is able to damage it, and it goes without saying that things less than that will have little to no effect. I find it very overkill to go listing pretty much every attack it ever received, making a Susanoo Madara Damage Scale. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 23:58, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
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It was just a simple request is that so difficult, really?--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 06:16, June 20, 2014 (UTC)
   
Honestly didn't even read the article before I replied, probably should have, but if it's durability is already noted there's no point in gilding the lily. --[[User:Hawkeye2701|Hawkeye2701]] ([[User talk:Hawkeye2701|talk]]) 00:05, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
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== Tailed Beast Control to jutsu list? ==
   
== Black Rods creation technique ==
 
   
Soo...as we have seen, courtesy of chapter 636, Madara's ability to materialise his will into the black rods also allows him to control people remotely. Soo we've seen him infuse his will to make Black Zetsu, the rods and control Obito from a distance. Now does this warrant the creation of a dedicated technique article? [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 10:07, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
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Is it worth adding the technique [[Tailed Beast Control]] to Madara's jutsu list, since it is mentioned under his abilities?--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 02:48, June 21, 2014 (UTC)
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:That's just [[Genjutsu: Sharingan]]--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 11:35, June 21, 2014 (UTC)
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::Further, Tailed Beast Control isn't so much a technique, but a...type of skill. Like being able to throw a kunai, if you will.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 11:42, June 21, 2014 (UTC)
   
So it's confirmed those rods are indeed Rinnegan Outer Path's ability and not something from Ten-Tails' body as our articles suggest. Those rods are "will" for sure since people can be controlled with them. Obito had them in his body since he massacred those Hidden Mist nin, that means Madara used Obito since day one T_T--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 10:11, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
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== I guess he is dead ==
   
:Hum wherent the rods noted as an extension of Madara's Yin-Yang Release, rather than the Outer Path? Also note how when Obito's being control, his body is being covered in black matter, similar to how Black Zetsu was made which was noted as Yin-Yang, so there is a connection between it all. Though i ask again, is there enough now to make a technique article? [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 10:15, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
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If Naruto and Sasuke are going to seal Kaguya then there's no chance of Madara returning to the series. Does that give us grounds to list him as deceased? --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 22:31, June 21, 2014 (UTC)
::The rods were created using yin-yang release, the control is done through Outer Path--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 10:22, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::Ok now i'm confuzeled...if the control is done through the Outer Path, how the hell did Madara make Black Zetsu, if he didn't even had the Rinnegan at that point...because given how he exerted control over Obito, i'd say that and how BZ was made is ver much connected. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 10:27, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
::::Dude he had the Rinnegan already, it appeared during the end of his '''natural''' lifespan.--[[User:Omojuze|Omojuze]] ([[User talk:Omojuze|talk]]) 10:31, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
::::Madara made Black Zetsu from Yin-Yang Release. Read the bottom of [[Madara Uchiha#Ninjutsu|this section]] about Zetsu and you'll see. Elveonora is correct on this matter. [[User_Talk:Joshbl56|<span style="color:green;">Joshbl56</span>]] 10:33, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::::Dude when he made Black Zetsu, he had already tore out his Rinnegan, plugged it into Nagato and slapped another Sharingan eye in it's place...and @Josh...the section says nothing about the Outer Path...and no one answered my question if by the info of the latest chapter do we have enough to warrant a technique article? [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 10:40, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
He didn't make BZ with Outer Path. BZ is Madara's will embodied using YYR, a creation, so are the rods, since they are inside of Obito's Hash part, his white half turns into a black one the same way as the part of white zetsu turned into black zetsu. The difference is that with Zetsu, he created an living avatar of his that carries his "will" and Obito's body is turning black because Madara's will is taking over from the rods. And I think it warrants an article, it's not exactly the same as six paths of pain, those are corpses moved with chakra like puppets, this is will controlling a living person. The remote transfer/control is an Outer Path technique, it's unlikely he would be able to do it without Rinnegan--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 10:44, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
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As of now, they're only ''planning'' to seal Kaguya away. They haven't done it yet. Madara's fate is still unknown, which is why "''presumed'' deceased" is what should be used.[[User:Hot Cakes|Hot Cakes]] ([[User talk:Hot Cakes|talk]]) 21:46, June 24, 2014 (UTC)
   
:@DarkSusanoo You ask how he made Black Zetsu and that's what I was answering. As for the dedicated technique.... I would think it would since we've seen him able to use Yin-Yang Release to do quite a bit now. If anything, it should have a mention in his Abilities. [[User_Talk:Joshbl56|<span style="color:green;">Joshbl56</span>]] 10:52, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
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== Infobox image ==
   
But @Elve both are the same...his will materialised into an effect...you can say that he did to make BZ was the pretty much the same as Obito...so either ''both'' are Outer Path related (despite Madara not having a Rinnegan when he made BZ) or not.
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Which one do you prefer to be set in the infobox? The [[:File:Uchiha Madara.png|current one]] or the [[:File:Uchiha Madara Full.png|image]] that uploaded by M4ND0N‎? —[[User:Shakhmoot|<font color="blue">'''Shakhmoot'''</font>]] [[File:Nadeshiko Village Symbol.svg|20px]] [[User talk:Shakhmoot|<sub>(Talk)</sub>]] 23:09, June 21, 2014 (UTC)
@Josh, the mention is already there, it takes up half of the section dedicated to his skills in Yin-Yang. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 11:08, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
You aren't getting it, the black rods and BZ are YYR creations, the chakra transmit/remote control isn't possible without a Rinnegan, is it? So the will taking over technique is Outer Path related--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 11:20, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
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I guess since it's clear where my position on this stands, I'll list my pros and cons.
:Yes i got it that the BZ and the rods are YYR, but they are not Outer Path related...but what happened to Obito, hell his body turned black like BZ, so the creation of the rods and BZ and Obito's control are the same, which is not OP related. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 11:28, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
::Madara created these Zetsu matter through YYR, so he has complete control over it. These matter seems to work like "Edo Tensei", when at Madara's "will" gains a Black colored tone, when allowing it to have some autonomism has a white colored tone. And yes the control seems to be made through Outer Pass, my idea is almost the same as @Elv's. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 11:38, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::@Dark, ... Madara created BZ and the rods using YYR as his will embodied. Obito's body isn't turning into BZ, it's the will taking over. Why it's outer path is because it allows a Rinnegan user to transmit and control with the rods. If Madara had no Rinnegan, he would not be able to take over Obito--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 11:47, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
::::@Elveo: Why did the black "will" only take over the Zetsu-half of Obito? [[File: Senju_Symbol.svg|20px]]'''KotoSenju''' ''('''OldUser:'''JaZZBaND)''-[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|Contributions]] 11:52, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::::@Koto Because Madara only control the Zetsu matter at his will through OP, he can't control Obito's own body. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 12:02, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
Well that's something to be view latter...anyone else agrees to make a technique article? [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 20:01, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
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Pros:
:Deserves an article or not? my opinion is that deserves. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 21:54, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
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- Frontal view
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- Natural color scheme of the armor [bright red, not darkened via Edo Tensei]
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- Image of Madara while he was alive and not an Edo Tensei
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Cons:
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- He's using Susanoo so the lighting's a little messed up.
   
Here's how I understand the current state of events: Madara uses a yet article-less Yin-Yang Release technique to materialise his will into things. Madara has used this technique to manifest his will into a living thing, one of the Zetsu clones, creating Black Zetsu. In the chapter we saw Black Zetsu being made, we were also told that Zetsu in general were made with Yin-Yang Release, but we don't see those being made, so we can't say anything without speculating, so whether it's the same technique or a different one, it's not the case here, just getting that one out of the way for now. Madara has also used the YYR that created BZ to create those chakra receivers. They're his will materialised, and Madara can apparently force those that bear his will to carry it out. Now, we have seen those receivers being used to channel chakra into another being (as chakra disruption blade), and to channel the power of the Outer Path, in a way that binds one's power, akin to to fūinjutsu, if not channelling an actual fūinjutsu. Now, I don't think these particular applications stem from the will manifesting YYR. I think this is similar in a way to how Gaara's shield of sand works. It's something (chakra receiver/shield of sand) that has one specific origin (YYR/Shukaku's sand control) that ended up being operated by another power (Outer Path/Karura's will). I do believe it warrants an article, but we have to be mindful of what to say it does. Will Manifesting/Materialising/Materialisation Technique seems to fit all the cases we've seen Madara doing it. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 00:29, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
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However in my defense of this, the Susanoo isn't as noticeable when viewed from afar in an infobox and it just makes him seem a little blue-ish, but we previously used one with a blue tint in the past as well. It's still in my opinion the best image of Madara currently available and it wouldn't be permanent, since there's certainty of a better one arising in the coming episodes. I guess it comes down to whether you'd want a non-Edo image now or wait for one without Susanoo to arise. I don't see a problem with using it now, however. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 00:28, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
: I agree with you Sempai for the most part...but given how it was almost identical, how Obito became controled by Madara and how BZ was made (the black matter spreading through their bodies) that it can't be a coincidence. Plus i'll repeat i don't see the rods as Outer Path-related thing...maybe they were adapted to serve as medium to the technique's power, but if Madara made the rods and BZ and did not have a Rinnegan at the time...plus we know YYR does not require a Rinnegan. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 00:40, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
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: Why change it now? We have at least two to three flashback episodes that will have a plethora of images showing him alive, in the daylight, and in his prime. Why settle for something that is inherently flawed (no offense Mandon, its just that the Susanoo ''does'' effect the quality of the image) when we could literally wait a week or two at most and take our pick of the litter? ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Sasuke's Rinnegan (Purple).svg|20px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 00:36, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
::Madara is enforcing his will through its materialised form that was in Obito. He did the same thing to create BZ, but there he poured the will himself instead of using an already materialised form. We kinda agree on the Outer Path angle. Roads were not created by it, but can be used with it. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 01:36, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::Will Materialisation Technique seems to do the trick in terms of name. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 01:42, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
@Darksusanoo, you still are missing the point. No one says those rods were created using Outer Path. But for his will to take over Obito, that's what the Outer Path is needed for. @Omn, we will have to sort out the Ten-Tails rod thing as well. They were likely used to control it. Also for the rods, it would appear that they are created using Hashirama's Living Clone and have some connection with Hash cells or something--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 14:40, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
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: I agree with Ten Tailed - wait to change it. The current one can last a couple of more weeks. --[[User:Kasan94|<font color="#3B0B0B">'''Kasan94'''</font>]] [[File:Nara Symbol.svg|20px]] <sub>[[User_talk:Kasan94|''Talkpage'']]</sub> 01:19, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
   
I don't quite think the Hashirama clone is needed to create them. As far as we know, Madara simply inserted one of the rods in the clone, maybe as safeguard, or to make sure that everything created with it was tainted with his will. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 15:34, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
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Isn't it official now that Hashirama is talking about reviving Madara that he is dead?--[[User:ElvinWindSword|ElvinWindSword]] ([[User talk:ElvinWindSword|talk]]) 19:43, July 3, 2014 (UTC)
   
== True main villain? ==
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They think he is dead. They still don't know for sure. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 20:58, July 3, 2014 (UTC)
   
This is more of a hindsight thing I wanna get going on. If Obito truly does die from casting the Rinne Tensei and Madara is restored to full form, should we consider him the legitimate main antagonist of the entire series? I mean if Obito just drops dead like that, clearly he wasn't ever anything more than a tool of Madara's.. and from how close the series is to ending, I just don't see Orochimaru pulling a 180 and being an antagonist again. Thoughts? --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 15:26, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
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=== And again ===
:That seemed pretty obvious to me ever since the real Madara was fully revealed as well as how his character was fully explored. Madara felt like the Emperor Palpatine to Obito's Darth Vader and the relationship between the two reflects just that. That said, this isn't really a forum so I'd advise putting this as an actual topic of discussion as opposed to being on Madara's talk page. --[[User:DementedP|DementedP]] ([[User talk:DementedP|talk]]) 16:49, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
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Which one do you prefer to be set in the infobox? The [[:File:Uchiha Madara.png|current one]] or the [[:File:Uchiha Madara alive.png|image]] that uploaded by M4ND0N‎? —[[User:Shakhmoot|<font color="blue">'''Shakhmoot'''</font>]] [[File:Nadeshiko Village Symbol.svg|20px]] [[User talk:Shakhmoot|<sub>(Talk)</sub>]] 21:00, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
::Orochimaru isn't dead. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 18:04, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
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:The current one. The image doesn't need changed at all. Nothing wrong with it at all. --[[User:SuperSajuuk|SuperSajuuk]] <sup><small>[[User talk:SuperSajuuk|Talk Page]] | [[User:SuperSajuuk/Images|My Image Uploads]] | [[User:SuperSajuuk/Tabber Code|Tabber Code]] | [http://youtube.com/LPSajuuk Channel]</small></sup> 21:05, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
:::.....yeah I'm pretty sure that was mentioned when Orochimaru was referred to doing a 180. That said, I don't think it's far-fetched to say that Orochimaru and Sasuke may still be plotting something (be it good or bad), and whether or not they'll become villains again is pretty much up in the air. --[[User:DementedP|DementedP]] ([[User talk:DementedP|talk]]) 18:18, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
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::The badass one--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:10, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
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::: I would still say the current one, out of those two --[[User:Kasan94|<font color="#3B0B0B">'''Kasan94'''</font>]] [[File:Nara Symbol.svg|20px]] <sub>[[User_talk:Kasan94|''Talkpage'']]</sub> 21:11, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
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::::The current one, because it's the most iconic look of him (red armor included)--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 21:23, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
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Of course it needs to be changed, Sajuuk. The current image never should have been used to begin with. We only chose it because we assumed at the end of chapter 656 that that it was an accurate depiction of how Madara would look after being resurrected, since his eyes hadn't disintegrated yet. We don't use reanimation images if an acceptable '''living''' image of the character is available.. I'm pretty sure that precedent was established long ago, and this image was the only one to break it. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 22:39, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
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:Mandon, from the preview of the next episode, I find the smiled Madara's screenshot is very good one to be set in the infobox. But as TU3-sama said that the red armor is the symbol of this character. I think it's better to keep it, let's wait for the next episode to see that. —[[User:Shakhmoot|<font color="blue">'''Shakhmoot'''</font>]] [[File:Nadeshiko Village Symbol.svg|20px]] [[User talk:Shakhmoot|<sub>(Talk)</sub>]] 22:54, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
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He doesn't have his armor in that one either. Plus there's no guarantee we will get a suitable image of him in his armor during this flashback.. what then? I don't think it's appropriate to keep an Edo Tensei image when there's plenty of viable images of him while he's alive. I guess we'll cross that road when we come to it. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 02:51, July 11, 2014 (UTC)
   
Sorry if you got the wrong idea.. I wasn't trying to use this as a forum. I started the discussion purely in context to how we phrase the article should Obito die next chapter. I mean in a sense of should we list Madara as the main antagonist and Obito as simply a "major antagonist"? It's pretty dumb to bring it up before the chapter comes out I know, but I'm curious what others think. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 00:09, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
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hows [[:File:Madzprofile.png|this]]? yes theres some Susanoo shit, but its still mostly a good color not being obscured and in perfect profile , and in his famous armor.--[[User:RexGodwin|RexGodwin]] ([[User talk:RexGodwin|talk]]) 06:17, July 21, 2014 (UTC)
:The one issue I have with calling Madara the main antagonist of the series is that he wasn't around for the majority of the series, and even with the events he had a hand in plotting, he wasn't the one to carry the overwhelming majority of them out. He may have set the frame for the main picture, but he's not the one who pulled the strings from behind the curtains. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 00:29, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
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: I don't really like it, because of that Susanoo stuff. --[[User:Kasan94|<font color="#3B0B0B">'''Kasan94'''</font>]] [[File:Nara Symbol.svg|20px]] <sub>[[User_talk:Kasan94|''Talkpage'']]</sub> 08:18, July 21, 2014 (UTC)
But if Obito does die next week then it proves that he was merely a pawn and not a genuine main villain. The bottom line is that if it wasn't for Madara, most of the events in the series wouldn't have transpired and while Obito was acting as Madara, he did change his personality significantly to mimic his mentor.. I think Obito acting as Madara kept his presence alive and even though his formal introduction wasn't till much later, he's still been a significant part of the story for a very long time since Obito started using his name. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 05:47, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
:As omnibender said madara hasn't been seen carrying out his plan throughout the series, but him and obito are the ones that caused Naruto(series) to happen he wasn't gthe one who made things how they are that was of course obito prior to the series but i wouldn't put madara as the main antagonist just yet, because you could say orochimaru was the main antagonist after the chunin exams or the akatsuki but he is the main antagonist that was behind the curtains but i wouldn't edit his article for something like this yet --[[User:ROOT 根|ROOT 根 ]] ([[User talk:ROOT 根|talk]]) 10:41, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
Main Antagonists aren't always characters who directly acted on their plans themselves but most of the time are people who set them into motion. If Obito was just a pawn then that would mean Madara is the true mastermind, despite his considerable absence from the series. He plotted everything and simply left his lackeys to carry it all out, i don't think that's so rare for a main antagonist to do. he might not be the nemesis of the main character, I'm pretty sure that's still Sasuke, but he is the one who's behind virtually all of the evil occuring in Part II, although Orochimaru is more of the main antagonist of Part I i think.--[[Special:Contributions/77.101.215.79|77.101.215.79]] ([[User talk:77.101.215.79|talk]]) 12:29, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
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Let's just wait till he's resurrected in the anime. As much as I hate the current image, I can't find a suitable image in the flashback and believe me, I was thorough in searching for one. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 19:33, July 24, 2014 (UTC)
   
Let's see: Madara is responsible for Nagato and Obito. Well, can't there be 2 "major antagonists" ?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 14:31, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
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there wont be a better one of him being revived.. he immediately loses both eyes and loses his armor after. quite the contrary, theres a few good shots in this episode:
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[[File:MadaraProD.png|thumb|Option A]]
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[[File:MadaraProC.png|thumb|Option B]]
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[[File:Madara newshot.png|thumb|Option C]]
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[[File:MadaraProA.png|thumb|Option D]]
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[[File:MadaraProposal E.jpeg|thumb|Option E]]
   
Usually there's just one main antagonist but if the series is subdivided into sagas, say like Dragon ball with the Freeza, Cell and Buu Sagas, there can be multiple lesser antagonists to fill the role. --[[Special:Contributions/77.101.215.79|77.101.215.79]] ([[User talk:77.101.215.79|talk]]) 15:32, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
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--[[User:RexGodwin|RexGodwin]] ([[User talk:RexGodwin|talk]]) 22:54, July 24, 2014 (UTC)
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: I'm okay with both B and D, with a preference for B. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Sasuke's Rinnegan (Purple).svg|20px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 23:19, July 24, 2014 (UTC)
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::C or D for me. --[[User:KirinNOTKarin98|KirinNOTKarin98]] ([[User talk:KirinNOTKarin98|talk]]) 02:16, July 25, 2014 (UTC)
   
But given all that's happened I'd say Madara is the main antagonist of Part II and Orochimaru is the main antagonist of Part I. But yeah, putting Sasuke into consideration it's probably too early to make that call.. But Kishi said Naruto would be done in 2014 so it's a bit too late for Oro or Sasuke to become the new main villain[s] of the series I think. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 16:40, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
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So in the absence of a decent image of Madara in his armor, I feel it's worth putting this one up as option E. It was the original image we used before we started waiting for a better photo from a flashback and quite frankly, I think it's fine, aside from the gray scale, it represents Madara's character much better than any of the proposed images, depicting him with his armor and gunbai, which is something no other photo can do. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 03:37, July 25, 2014 (UTC)
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: I am absolutely against that. Your option is in terrible quality, greyscale, and only represents Madara as he was seen earlier in the series. Not once since he became prominent, was he ever depicted with a headband on his forehead, for one. You simply don't see an image ''you'' like, but that doesn't mean that there wasn't a decent choice from the recent episodes, and options A through D are proof of that. That being said, Option C is probably our best choice. He's facing the "camera", if you will, it shows Madara's typical demeanor, and without any dōjutsu in his eyes. He is wearing his trademark Uchiha robes (he doesn't have the armor, but I really don't care about that) and, better yet, he's alive. I say change it to Option C and leave it that way. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Sasuke's Rinnegan (Purple).svg|20px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 05:03, July 25, 2014 (UTC)
   
i say yes what about you--[[Special:Contributions/176.252.171.147|176.252.171.147]] ([[User talk:176.252.171.147|talk]]) 17:12, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
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I wasn't weighing these options based off whether I like an image or not. The artwork and animation for this episode was quite terrible, so yeah, I don't think any of the proposed are particularly suitable.
   
I would say that Sasuke is more of Naruto's antithesis but not an antagonist. as of yet he has done more to make himself such a thing than he has to be a true Antagonist, given his goals I'd say he still won't be an Antagonist even if he does fight Naruto. Madara meanwhile has schemed for a good few decades to take over the world, opposed the main cast directly with various forms of danger, usually through Obito and Akatsuki, and has ultimately spun the world into perpetual disorder with the utterance of his name. --[[Special:Contributions/77.101.215.79|77.101.215.79]] ([[User talk:77.101.215.79|talk]]) 19:38, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
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Additionally, your argument is extremely flawed. Not once was Madara depicted with a headband before he became a prominent character? Try 124 chapters ago when he appeared in Onoki's flashback. Bad argument is bad. The greyscale point of course, still stands, but it still represents his character better than any of the proposed images. Before Madara was even '''named''' let alone established as a major character, this is how he appeared, armor and all. His gunbai and clothing are part of his iconic appearance, so they are important.
   
:'''''"The one issue I have with calling Madara the main antagonist of the series is that he wasn't around for the majority of the series, and even with the events he had a hand in plotting, he wasn't the one to carry the overwhelming majority of them out. He may have set the frame for the main picture, but he's not the one who pulled the strings from behind the curtains."'''''
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However, with that being said Kishimoto changed the color of his gunbai so you could say my proposed image boasts a non-canon color scheme, but the gray scale fixes that problem. Regardless if that's a dealbreaker then I support option B for the slightly more refined artwork. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 06:07, July 25, 2014 (UTC)
:I'd normally agree with this, if it weren't for the fact that Madara actually showed up himself, essentially taking over for Obito as the main leading figure of the war to continually push his plan. If Madara had remained a shadowy figure all throughout, I'd agree that Obito is the main antagonist, but the fact remains that he actually showed up himself and his character is even fully explored to solidify his presence. Not to mention, Madara's influence is ultimately what led Obito to do the things he did. Despite being more prominently shown in the series, Obito is treated almost as a second-in-command to Madara. This is very evident in the way they interact each other. Sure Obito is doing this based on his own reasons, but it ultimately makes him an enforcer of Madara's plans and not necessarily based on his own separate one. Heck he even pretended to be "Madara" on behalf of Madara, so Madara's presence and influence is definitely felt throughout the series even before his actual in-person appearance. While I agree that Madara can technically be considered as the main antagonist of the series, I think that Obito's role as a major antagonist should still be noted (just like with Orochimaru and Nagato) --[[User:DementedP|DementedP]] ([[User talk:DementedP|talk]]) 07:03, June 29, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
Well after thinking about it some more, I don't think it's entirely fair to discredit Obito's role up until now. While it's true that he was acting as Madara, the fact remains that it wasn't 'really' Madara doing all the stuff up until now. I think it's fair to say Obito's main antagonist role ended after he was unmasked. Maybe we could say Obito was the main antagonist up to the Shinobi World War arc? And then say Madara is the main antagonist during the Ten Tails Revival Arc up to the current point in the story. Orochimaru was the main villain of Part I so I can't really say either Obito or Madara are the main villains of the series as a whole, since they have little influence over the events occurring prior to Part 2. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 17:00, June 30, 2013 (UTC)
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I Support C and D. C have a better angle at him, while D have better light. --[[User:Kasan94|<font color="#3B0B0B">'''Kasan94'''</font>]] [[File:Nara Symbol.svg|20px]] <sub>[[User_talk:Kasan94|''Talkpage'']]</sub> 08:09, July 25, 2014 (UTC)
:That's a fair enough assessment. I was reading the early parts of the war and it seems fair to give Obito some credit for his work (specifically when he donned a new outfit as the "Masked Man"). That sound perfect though, Obito was definitely the main antagonist up to the Shinobi World War arc, whereas Madara's reveal (and backstory) essentially turned him in to the main antagonist (from Ten Tails Revival Arc up to the current story). That's also true in regards to how their influence only came about in Part 2. --[[User:DementedP|DementedP]] ([[User talk:DementedP|talk]]) 19:37, July 2, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
LOL The new chapter kind of made this entire debate an ironic assumption-fest. I guess Madara's a secondary villain now? --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 20:17, July 3, 2013 (UTC)
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Not sure what episode you saw, but the animation was just fine. Besides that depiction of Madara is very off how he normally looks in this day and age; just look at his hair then. And people need to stop obsessing over the red armor. -.- the focal point is his head/face so that is irrelevant. Plus that grey scale is awful. Maybe if it was properly colored but just no.--[[User:RexGodwin|RexGodwin]] ([[User talk:RexGodwin|talk]]) 08:55, July 25, 2014 (UTC)
   
:Haha so true! I can see what Kishimoto is sort of doing though, in the sense that he's having the main fight be fought by the younger generation as opposed to the older ones. Certainly an idea I have no objections to, and at least in this regard Obito's role is not all done yet as far this whole thing goes. --[[User:DementedP|DementedP]] ([[User talk:DementedP|talk]]) 18:44, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
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Option C ([[User:Kuroiraikou|Kuroiraikou]] ([[User talk:Kuroiraikou|talk]]) 09:24, July 25, 2014 (UTC))
   
== First seen ==
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:Not sure why changing the image is so important, as I've stated before we got incredibly lucky to get a good shot of him, armor and all and not looking like a reanimated corpse. I see no reason to switch to a less iconic picture just to have a picture of him not dead. Going through so many loops just to change the image just seems like a waste of time and energy. As such, I abstain from picking. Have fun.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 09:26, July 25, 2014 (UTC)
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::I honestly think the current one is fine. Yes, it's an image of him as an edo tensei, but none of the telltale cracks are there. He looks exactly as he did in life. My only problem is the lighting but in a case such as this I don't think it's too much of a deal breaker. That said, if it has to be changed I'd go with Option C. Good framing, good expression, good art. D has better lighting but it's not a great shot and something about it just makes him look younger.--[[User:Soul reaper|Soul reaper]] ([[User talk:Soul reaper|talk]]) 09:37, July 25, 2014 (UTC)
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The image is not fine, it's too far away and not centered on his face. Also his clothes are satisfactory for the images proposed. Option C is the best as that's the facial expression Madara has on him most of the time, though Option D would be my second choice that just doesn't scream "Madara to me". So my choice is Option C as it showcases Madara's most used facial expression.--[[User:Narutofox94|Narutofox94]] ([[User talk:Narutofox94|talk]]) 04:56, July 26, 2014 (UTC)
   
F
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Looks like there's an overwhelming amount of support for option C. Guess that settles it --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 01:32, July 27, 2014 (UTC)
   
Madara is actually seen and revealed as tobi at the end of shippuden #125
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:Why is there an obsession to change the image of Madara? Seriously, pick one and leave it alone. These weekly discussions to change his image are getting disruptive and pointless. --[[User:SuperSajuuk|SuperSajuuk]] <sup><small>[[User talk:SuperSajuuk|Talk Page]] | [[User:SuperSajuuk/Images|My Image Uploads]] | [[User:SuperSajuuk/Tabber Code|Tabber Code]] | [http://youtube.com/LPSajuuk Channel]</small></sup> 14:24, July 27, 2014 (UTC)
   
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He needed a living image and now he has one. Case closed, there won't ever be new and better images of him to use so this is the one that stays, for good this time. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 09:42, August 2, 2014 (UTC)
   
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== Sources saying he is the strongest Uchiha in history? ==
   
[[User:Rhythian|Rhythian]] ([[User talk:Rhythian|talk]]) 19:38, July 2, 2013 (UTC)Rhythian
 
   
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Can somebody please tell me the sources saying which chapters and pages saying he is blatantly the strongest uchiha clan member in history; same thing with one of the most gifted shinobi in history?--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 01:45, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
   
tobi is actually obito [[User:Actionmanrandell|Actionmanrandell]] ([[User talk:Actionmanrandell|talk]]) 23:56, July 2, 2013 (UTC)actionmanrandell[[User:Actionmanrandell|Actionmanrandell]] ([[User talk:Actionmanrandell|talk]]) 23:56, July 2, 2013 (UTC)
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== Something very interesting ==
   
'''how will the outer paths work this time'''
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Madara used [[Sage Art: Storm Release Light Fang]] but none of the Shurikens Naruto used in latest chapter do we recognize as Storm, so there are two options:
   
when nagato used Outer Path: Samsara of Heavenly Life Technique to bring back the villages to life and there souls were in the crossroads: the technique works By channelling their power through the King of Hell, the Rinnegan wielder can re-infuse new life force energy to the bodies of those who have died. With their rejuvenated bodies acting as an anchor. but in this case Madara is not in the cross roads he is bound to a host body by the edo tensei so its not actually his body therefore there would be nothing to anchor his soul to. plus beside if it uses the body that is hosting him to wouldn't the samsara resurrect said body instead? just wondering
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* the mystery scale powder Shuriken is in fact Storm Release
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* Madara had Storm Release on his own as a kekkei genkai
   
[[User:Actionmanrandell|Actionmanrandell]] ([[User talk:Actionmanrandell|talk]]) 00:03, July 3, 2013 (UTC)actionmanrandell[[User:Actionmanrandell|Actionmanrandell]] ([[User talk:Actionmanrandell|talk]]) 00:03, July 3, 2013 (UTC)
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You pick--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 11:02, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
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:What has SR to do with Naruto's Rasen Shuriken? None of them were Blaze Release either, so is the scale powder one Blaze Release? • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 11:10, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
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::Naruto used powers of all the Tailed Beasts for his 9 shurikens and none of them do we recognize as SR. Madara's usage of SR either comes from being a jinchuuriki or it was his Kekkei Genkai. So if the former, one of the Tailed Beasts has to have Storm Release.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 11:12, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Ah, I see. Then the black orb could be storm clouds and the whirly wind would be... well, whirly wind, hm? It doesn't fit the usual depiction of Storm Release in the manga, though. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 11:15, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Then again, Madara's Storm Release is a slice of wind, too... • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 11:47, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
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::::Well, I just thought we might want to solve this sooner than later. According to wiki, Kabutomushi are linked to element of lightning due to their horn resembling a lightning rod, so that may be a vague connection. The white tornado-like stuff may be the Storm Release. The black core may be metalic scale powder--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 11:53, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::Why does it have to be both? • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 11:55, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Izanagi ==
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Because Storm Release isn't black, so the black core has to be something else--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 11:56, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
Where was it stated, that Madara had the jutsu? Obito does, but where does Madara states, or shows that he does?--— [[User:Kinglink15|Kinglink15]] ([[User talk:Kinglink15|Kinglink15]]) 03:40, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
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:Fire Release isn't blue either, still we say that the blue flames of Matatabi are Fire Release... [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|]]</sup> 12:01, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
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::Yes, but why would Chomeo's Storm Release be two-colored? Also the one Madara used was also white only like Darui's--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:06, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
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:::It's not two-coloured. The wind around it is wind, not white beams or so. I believe that Madara used wind, too. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 12:16, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
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::::Then why call wind storm release? Also if the white stuff is wind, that would imply the black is storm but Darui's Storm Release is all white/bluish--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:28, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::Because a storm is mostly made by strong winds. Yes, but different versions of one nature aren't uncommon (I'm looking at you, Lava Release). • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 12:31, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
   
:Madara taught Obito how to use Izanagi (the Uchiha kinjutsu in chapter 606) and also has the prerequisite for using it (Sharingan), thus he is logically a user of the technique himself.--[[User:BeyondRed|BeyondRed]] ([[User talk:BeyondRed|talk]]) 03:46, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
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So would you oppose us changing scale powder to Storm Release? Unless you believe Madara was born with Storm Release or that one of the Tailed Beasts just decided not to use it with the Shuriken--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:34, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
::Kinglink15 is right though. Izanagi and Izanami are techniques that all Uchiha/Sharingan wielder can/would (in the case of being in the clan) learn in theory. That does not however mean he's used the technique as far as we know. It can just as easily be mentioned when Obito learned it in the trivia. We put too much into seeing techniques in infoboxes to validate them.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 07:02, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
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:I do oppose, because him using Storm Release after becoming the TTJ is no solid evidence that one of the beasts has SR. He uses YR and LR too, yet none of the beasts used those natures in the Rasen Shuriken, hm? [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|]]</sup> 12:38, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
:::As it is now, the other Six Paths techniques are not listed under Madara's techniques, so it's strange that Izanagi is, when Madara taught them to Obito as well. Why was Izanagi's inclusion decided originally?--[[User:BeyondRed|BeyondRed]] ([[User talk:BeyondRed|talk]]) 07:32, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 
::::Again back and forth people? I see it some people decide on something only for others later to ruin it. The decision was to list Madara because he taught Obito Uchiha kinjutsu and Yin-Yang release, Izanagi is both--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:17, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
So please, anyone tell me...who else could have taught Izanagi to Obito? Or anyother of the Six Paths Technique while we're on the subject? If one can teach something, it's a logical assumption they can also use it...and Madara being the most powerful memeber of the Uchiha clan, a man with the power of the First Hokage and the Rinnegan and a man who has clearly dabbled extensively in the techniques of Sage, which include Yin-Yang. He has the skill, he had the time to learn them, he knows enough of them to teach them to someone else. It speaks for itself...let it die already. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 13:40, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
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I don't really understand this discussion, do the abilities of the nine tailed beasts really need to coincide with the abilities of a Shinju jinchūriki? --[[User:Atrix471|Atrix471]] ([[User talk:Atrix471|talk]]) 12:38, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
:So list Sasuke as a Izanami user, he learned it theoretically with Itachi and thats a general skill for Uchihas, if he knows the theory he is a user right? Thats what is being used with Madara as well. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 14:28, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
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:If they don't, then Kaguya has Storm Release. It either came somewhere from the Ten-Tails or from Madara himself. @Seel, what is YR and LR?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:41, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
::Dan, we are usually in agreement with eachother, but not here. Don't start acting crazy now. OF COURSE SASUKE SHOULDNT BE LISTED MAN! It was actually stated that Madara taught these techniques to Obito, right? So why even bring up that Sasuke scenario? Was it said that Itachi '''taught''' Izanami to Sasuke? No. So how would your example apply? It doesn't. Remember Minato people! It was said that he created the Rasengan or when we were told Tobirama was a user of EDO-TENSEI. We listed them before we '''saw''' them do anything, right? So obviously, you don't have to be '''seen''' doing anything to be listed as a user. It's clearly enough to have some sort of mention to add them as users. And if logic points in that direction, that's ok too. [[File: Senju_Symbol.svg|20px]]'''KotoSenju''' ''('''OldUser:'''JaZZBaND)''-[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|Contributions]] 14:39, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
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::Inton and Raiton. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau ]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|]]</sup> 12:41, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
:::Yes, Obito could've picked up a scroll and just as easily read about the technique much like how all the other several dozen Uchiha who used to use the techniques in the past. I'll be the first to agree that there needs to be some consistency with the conditions under which we add people as users but simply because Madara said he'll teach Obito the kinjutsu doesn't mean he's ever used it. This isn't exactly something you can physically shown someone and they replicate it. There is a difference between using something and teaching someone how to use something.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 14:43, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
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:::Both of them are basic natures. Madara could use YYR so that included Inton. Just because he didn't use Raiton prior to becoming a jinchuuriki doesn't mean he couldn't--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:43, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
::::Yes, there is a difference. But how big is the difference? How can you teach someone something, you had no experience with, nor applied yourself? In Naruto, everything someone has taught someone else, they can clearly use it themselves. [[File: Senju_Symbol.svg|20px]]'''KotoSenju''' ''('''OldUser:'''JaZZBaND)''-[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|Contributions]] 14:46, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
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::::Ever consider the fact that the Shinju is the origin of chakra, in all forms, and that it was used to create the Ten-Tails? Emphasis on '''all forms'''. --[[User:Atrix471|Atrix471]] ([[User talk:Atrix471|talk]]) 12:44, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
:::::Lack of consistency and bias will once hurt this place a lot I'm afraid. But your point is a good one Cerez, talking about the last sentence. Nevertheless, I'm a bit uncertain if we wouldn't find more cases in which a character is being listed as a user of something that he was noted to have been taught/known but is yet to be seen using it, so. I just can't recall an example as a counter-argument at this point, there must be one though, I hope ._.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 14:48, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
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:::::So cool, so let's list Kaguya/Ten-Tails, Hagoromo, Obito and Madara as users of all known basic and advanced natures, because you say origin of chakra in all forms.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:49, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
::::::@Sorry Koto but i have to disagree wit you now :(. Look at Kakashi teaching Naruto how to use Wind Release? And Kakashi is not a user, he only has a advanced knowledge on the subject. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 14:49, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
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::::::Well Hagoromo I wouldn't be surprised about, nor would I be for Kaguya. Madara canonically mastered all five basic chakra natures, so with the Shinju, I don't see why he couldn't mix them. Also I seem to recall Madara absorbing the Shinju, then using the storm release in the very next chapter... seems too scripted for coincidence. --[[User:Atrix471|Atrix471]] ([[User talk:Atrix471|talk]]) 13:06, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
:::::::No, Dan. He did teach him how to use wind release, he taught him how to determine his element and mix it with jutsu. The principle is different from the actual application. But on the main point, there's a perfect example in Primary Lotus or even the Shadow Leaf Dance technique. Guy taught them to Rock Lee, obviously. But he has yet to be seen using either of them. [[File: Senju_Symbol.svg|20px]]'''KotoSenju''' ''('''OldUser:'''JaZZBaND)''-[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|Contributions]] 14:55, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 
::::::::@Koto "mix it with jutsu" isn't teaching how to use it? It is... So this shows that someone can teach something if he knows enough to teach it to another. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 14:59, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
Given the complexity of Izanagi, i find it difficult for Obito not to have learn it from Madara from a visual/practical standpoint and we know he had replacement Sharingan...plus by Madara's terms, he said he was going to teach him Uchiha kinjutsu, the Six Paths Techniques and Yin-Yang Release ones....given how two out the those three parameters are what makes Izanagi. Also another thing to consider is that Madara molded Obito to in his image, to maintain the idea ''Madara'' was still alive, soo both mens skillsets had to be reasonably similar. So to say Obito could do it and Madara can't doesn't make a lot of sense...[[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 22:08, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
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== Possessing Hashirama Senju's life force and vitality? ==
:@Dark the question here is that someone like Madara having a vast knowledge on the subject could easily teach Obito how to do it without being a user, like Kakashi did with Naruto, and i will talk again about Itachi's Izanami, Sasuke did not realize how Itachi used Izanami, but Itachi explained to him after using it, could be Sasuke a Izanami user? Obvious... From what is being said here. Now, who teached Itachi about Izanami? Maybe he read a scroll or sort of a Uchiwa plate for that, i can't see someone teaching Izanami to Itachi being that he left the village soon and had no further contact with the clan. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 12:55, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
::@Dan...your example is flawed because your mixing the teacher with the student in your examples. Sasuke may have learned the theroretical basis of how Izanami worked...he also understands the workings of Izanagi...but he never used them. On the other hand Madara taught Obito how to do it...and Obito's Izanagi is the most perfect one shown so far...to have that kind of jutsu requires more than theoreical knowledge, and Izanagi to me is a jutsu that requires teaching from a practical standpoint. Why wouldn't the most powerful of the Uchiha not be capable of using one of their most powerful dojutsu. Also if the idea was to make Obito into Madara, it would be suspicious that he one would use it if he never could in the first place. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 13:42, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::@Dark and how about the Jinchūriki sealing techniques? To be exact, the Ten Tails sealing technique, that is really complex, right? In order to learn the technique he would need to testify it? Do you believe he saw it?
 
   
And for my examples, take the Kakashi/Naruto WR example, is enough, the Itachi/Sasuke Izanami is just a way to use the same logical all the way around. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 14:03, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
:Kakashi and the WR is a bit flawed as well, because first Kakashi taught him how to learn his elemental affinity...and to teach him how to use it, he had to get Asuma's help...a skilled Wind Release user to push the point...and in regards to the Ten-tails sealing technique, i'm more than sure the Sage and Madara can also use them...the Sage because he was the first jinchuriki and Madara because it was his plan to become the new one. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 14:49, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
::But how Obito learned it? Saw Madara using it? ofcourse not, if so, Madara was a Jinchūriki, that only explains that someone can teach something without being a user at all. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 14:53, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::The case is not about whether or not Madara can use it, because more likely than no he can. It's about the fact that the infobox is being "abused" in the sense that techniques a person has never '''used''' are being listed under there. Derived/parent techniques are understandable, but he's never used this technique. The problem is that we have no precedence or guideline to go off what is and what isn't added to the infobox as jutsu for a character...--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 16:25, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
::::@Cerez but some are defending Izanagi's permanence at Madara's infobox because they believe he can use it... And even that we can't be sure, so there is no way he should stay listed as a Izanagi user, that should be changed. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 16:42, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::::Because if someone can teach a technique as complex as this: A dojutsu-based forbidden technique of their own clan, a Yin-Yang based one... they have to be able to use it. Madara said he was going to teach Obito, Uchiha kinjutsu, so far there are only two of these and Obito only showed one. We have to assume the basic principle that if one character can teach a technique to another character, they have to be able to use on some basic level in order to pass it on to someone else, unless there's direct evidence to the contrary. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 17:42, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
::::::Kakashi and Naruto WR example settles this. Kakashi can't use and teached Naruto how to use it into his technique, i know your point of view isn't that bad either, but it is a big speculation, and that shouldn't be at the infobox. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 17:46, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
: It does not settle anything...Kakashi only taught him how to identify his elemental affinity and the initial notions in it's use and he still required an alternative teaching way to do so and Naruto still had to require the help of an actual Wind Release user to learn on both a theoretical and practical standpoint. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 18:14, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
::Ok you don't want to see any point of view but your own. You say that no one could learn Izanagi without seeing it, so tell me how did Danzo learned Izanagi? Did someone used it so he could learn? @Dark be reasonable. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 19:12, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
::I am being reasonable:
 
:::Obito was taken in by Madara. Fact
 
:::Madara said he would train Obito personally. Fact
 
:::Madara said he would teach him the following:
 
::::- Uchiha kinjutsu
 
::::- Yin-Yang Release
 
::::- The Six Paths Techniques
 
All of this...fact. What is Izanagi? An Uchiha kinjutsu and YYR technique.
 
I'm following the logical assumption here...if you can teach something, you can use it to some degree...that is the logic. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 19:22, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::::The only fact here is that Madara did not use it, and teaching something doesn't mean using it. That is a big assumption, don't know what the rest thinks. Where needing more opinions to close this matter. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 19:36, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
::::::How can you teach someone to use something effectively without knowing how to use it? It makes no sense whatsoever. But oww well, let's see what the rest of the people says. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 20:10, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::::::No one said he doesn't know how to use it, where saing he just never used it, so he can't be listed, there are more ways to teach or learn something without seeing it or using it. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 21:56, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
Ok, this discussion is wearing my patience thin, guys. Allow me to bring up some points.
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Is it worth adding on to Madara's abilities the possession of Hashirama Senju's vitality, physical energy and life force, particularly to his Chakra section?--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 00:11, August 15, 2014 (UTC)--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 00:18, August 15, 2014 (UTC)
*When was Guy ever '''seen''' using the primary lotus? Never. Yet he is listed as a user.
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:It's somewhat noted in the 'body modifications' sections; mentioning his new regenerative powers and wood release. --[[User:Atrix471|Atrix471]] ([[User talk:Atrix471|talk]]) 00:20, August 15, 2014 (UTC)
*When was Mangetsu '''seen''' using the Seven Swords? Never. People have said he mastered them.
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::We shouldn't even mention these stupid things in my opinion, it irks me seeing them being thrown around everywhere. First, vitality is just another term that was used for life force, so they are the same thing. Second, we don't even know exactly what life force is, what it does and what difference its quantity/quality makes in comparison to those with lesser life force, third, same for physical energy, we don't know how anyone with strong physical energy differs from an ordinary folk.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 08:52, August 15, 2014 (UTC)
*When was the Sage ever '''seen''' using the Six Paths? Never. We only have mentions of him mastering the Rinnegan, so it's assumed he can use all the techniques.
 
There are thousands more I can bring up, im serious. You people seem to forget what the word ''USER'' means on our website. A "user" of a technique is someone who was mentioned to have been able, has been mentioned to have used, or has even been seen using the technique. As long as the latter fits in one of those three, they're automatically listed as a '''user'''. May I remind you of Tobirama? Gosh, for all we know he could have written on a scroll, the exact directions on how the technique works. How do we know he used it? Someone mentioned that they have, that's why. So with that example alone, you can clearly rule out that the character '''has to be seen using the technique'''. C'mon guys, lets use our minds logically and stay more consistent. It has started to piss a lot of people off. Though, im not entirely pissed, im worried that this crap will come up again.
 
Oh, and Dan, lay off the Kakashi and Wind Release example. You act as if he used the technique that Naruto developed. This is how your example should go:
 
* Kakashi knows how to find your affinity - taught it to Naruto.
 
* Kakashi knows how to mix your affinity with jutsu - taught it to Naruto.
 
That's all he did. Kakashi didn't use the Wind Release: Rasengan, or anyof its variations. Although, do I doubt he can learn the jutsu given enough time? Heck no, he could, but the fact of the matter is, he did not. [[File: Senju_Symbol.svg|20px]]'''KotoSenju''' ''('''OldUser:'''JaZZBaND)''-[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|Contributions]] 22:59, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
:@Koto i am tired too, if you guys can't understand that Izanagi can be learned with a scroll or a Uchiwa plate i can't do nothing, see Danzo's example, and Itachi Izanami example, and Madara's himself, they learned it from an object and not from a training don't you think? Is so hard to accept that it is a conclusion without great fundamentals but a vague phrase? That is not a very logic thought, that is a big assumption (but by saying that is an assumption i am not saying that i am 100% right, and that you guys haven't a point). But is vague, i can't do no more here. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 23:11, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
::Dan, let me reply to your example and give you a question.
 
::::::I agree with what you say. You are totally right on when you say those people could have learned them from a scroll, or by some other means. But you need to give me the difference between this situation and the example in which Guy can use the Primary Lotus. What's your standing on that. Neither Madara, nor Guy have been seen using the techniques in mention. But yet Guy is listed as a user. [[File: Senju_Symbol.svg|20px]]'''KotoSenju''' ''('''OldUser:'''JaZZBaND)''-[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|Contributions]] 23:19, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
:Perhaps because it is a technique of physical component, that has never been demonstrated being included in any available parchment, and his master's trainings were all practical and not theoretical, while in case of Izanagi, has been clearly demonstrated being contained in scrolls and Uchiwa plates. But the way you look at things is different from mine, and you will allways disagree if you can't accept that Madara's phrase is very vague and Izanagi learning content is different from PL. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 23:55, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
With Madara and Obito, the latter could have learned it elsewhere, even if very unlikely, since Madara trained him in areas that cover the technique's description. But on top of that, Madara is a boss, in theory, he can do anything and was leader of Uchiha--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:58, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
:Yes i know that, this case is different, it is only a phrase that could lead 2 ways, practical and theoretical, but what was used? And i have no doubt that Madara can use it, look at what @Cerez said about this, i believe he is right. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 00:04, July 16, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
:Dan, with all due respect, all you did was assume, based on guesses. All that would have me do is ask you how Guy learned it.
 
::From his sensei?
 
::Why didn't his team have experience with technique?
 
::Could he have learned it from his teacher? Did he get the knowledge form a scroll.
 
::Did he create the technique?
 
You cannot answer a single one of those follow-up questions. No one can but Kishi. The difference here, with Madara and Obito, would be that Madara actually told Obito he would teach him the Uchiha Kinjutsu. If you brought this argument to Madara/Obito being able to use Izanagi, then you'd be right 100%. However, here we have a basis. No matter how ''"vague"'' you think Madara's statement was, it was said nonetheless. There are few meanings to what he said, so it shouldn't be vague to you anyway. All-in-all, the evidence stands strong, and you are assuming that Obito learned Izanagi another way, despite the fact that Madara clearly told us what he was going to teach it to him. [[File: Senju_Symbol.svg|20px]]'''KotoSenju''' ''('''OldUser:'''JaZZBaND)''-[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|Contributions]] 00:07, July 16, 2013 (UTC)
 
:@Koto, and you can't answer no one of this but Kishi himself.
 
::::Did Madara used Izanagi so Obito could learn it?
 
::::Is really Madara capable of using Izanagi?
 
::::What was the method used by Madara to teach Izanagi to Obito?.
 
:This is why he can't be listed, because Izanagi has more than one learning method, you can not assume that Madara used it or is a user. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 11:31, July 16, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
== Height ==
 
I don't recall seeing any measurements in his article in the databook. Did I not see it or is that just speculation? --[[User:KiumaruHamachi|KiumaruHamachi]] ([[User talk:KiumaruHamachi|talk]]) 23:06, July 21, 2013 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi
 

Latest revision as of 08:52, August 15, 2014

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Deceased vs. Incapacitated Edit

His body exploded to pieces, and in his place Kaguya returns to life. How is he incapacitated? He should be noted as deceased, like Obito is now. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 06:29, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

I could be wrong but I doubt Kishimoto would kill off someone like Madara like that. With that immortality he acquired, I'm not sure what to believe about his status even if he is blown to bits.--Hockey Machete (talk) 06:33, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

Well, Madara's body kind of "shrunk down", it isn't like he went "boom" and then Kaguya appeared. It's a bit weird, that much at least.--JOA20 (talk) 06:35, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

I think Madara isn't completely dead yet, as Hashi taught Sasuke a jutsu that responds to the senjutsu chakra Madara absorbed from Hashi, in an effort to stop and save him. Wisenoob (talk) 06:56, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

Presumed Deceased exists for cases like this one--Elveonora (talk) 10:57, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

Madara was transformed into Kaguya. That's more like incapacitated than presumed deceased. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 11:10, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
Except incapacitated sounds like a temporary condition. Do you expect Kaguya to mutate back into Madara or something?--Elveonora (talk) 11:20, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
That Kaguya would relinquish control, no. That it would be feasible, yes. We've seen the other tailed beasts coming back into existence after they were merged into the Shinju, this isn't much different. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 11:46, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
They actually weren't merged, they were simply inside the statue. Madara isn't deceased only if his consciousness is still there somewhere and his soul hasn't gone to the pure world. Although I don't see how could that be, considering he was torn apart--Elveonora (talk) 12:04, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
Seriously, how are people seeing him exploding and what not? When he reached critical mass and was completely covered by BZ, he clearly began shrinking back down, taking Kaguya's form. There was no tearing apart, no explosion. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 12:06, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
I meant those tumor-like blobs.--Elveonora (talk) 12:13, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

Abnormal growth, sign of instability, same thing happened to Obito before he got a firm grip on Shinju's power. Shrank down once it got stable, same here, just with the other side winning. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 12:16, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

Right now, Incapacitated. No real way to know if he's a corpse or not which I doubt he is considering Kaguya just used his body to to become herself. Basically as long as Kaguya is alive, so is Madara, if only on a very technical sense.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 13:25, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

The Truth Seeking Balls he placed on Hashirama and Minato disintegrated. Doesn't that indicate Madara's demise? Yatanogarasu (Talk) 01:42, June 12, 2014 (UTC)

It indicates Madara lost control over those items, just like how he lost control and was overtaken by Kaguya. WindStar7125 (Talk)WindStar7125 (talk) 00:50, June 13, 2014 (UTC)

I think it indicates that he is indeed dead. His chakra can't maintain them anymore and if someone's chakra disappears, that means they're dead.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 01:54, June 13, 2014 (UTC)
Agreed. I think the presumed deceased tag is deserved in this instance. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 02:07, June 13, 2014 (UTC)
Madara's chakra is gone and the remnants of his presence (his rods and TSB) have disintegrated. I agree. Presumed deceased should be the label used. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 06:20, June 13, 2014 (UTC)
He might be deader than dead too since his soul is presumably consumed or destroyed by Kaguya's takeover, thus his weapons disintegrating.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 02:10, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
It is possible that Madara has died, but it is still too early to say for sure, which is why "presumed deceased" is what should be used. The specifics of what exactly happened to Madara hasn't even been confirmed yet. All we have is speculation. Do you honestly think Madara would be killed off in a snap, without any actual closure? The fact that Black Zetsu rewrote the Uchiha stone tablet into saying the things that drove Madara over the edge even makes it possible that he might return to redeem himself. Madara's fate isn't clear, which is why we can only presume he's dead. Hot Cakes (talk) 21:44, June 24, 2014 (UTC)

Absorption Soul User Edit

Madara should be a user of the Absorption Soul Jutsu. Obito said he could use the human path to extract information and since Obito learned the Six Path Jutsu from Madara, that means Madara can use the Absorption Soul jutsu. Also Obito can perform Izanagi since he learned Uchiha forbidden techniques from Madara therefore making a Madara a user of the Izanagi. Same idea should apply to Madara also being a user of the Absorption Soul jutsu.--Rinneganmaster (talk) 19:42, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

That's why he has each Path technique listed, as in Animal Path, Deva Path, etc. This is a case where we don't have it as clearly defined as Deva Path and each individual technique. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:36, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

Obito can use the Absorption Soul Jutsu no doubt about that. My point is that Madara should be able to use Absorption Soul Jutsu since Obito learned all of his rinnegan jutsu from Madara. --Rinneganmaster (talk) 05:36, June 5, 2014 (UTC)

Madara taught Obito Six Paths Technique. Omni's point is that a single Path (besides Deva and Outer which are known to have more) may have more than just one technique--Elveonora (talk) 11:04, June 5, 2014 (UTC)

Okay that is reasonable.--Rinneganmaster (talk) 21:08, June 5, 2014 (UTC)

Page Images Vandalism Edit

There are two images that were vandalized, in Personality section. One depicts the Flash, and the other... reminds me some achievement.--VolteMetalic (talk) 10:20, June 9, 2014 (UTC)

Okay, I found some more. But they seem to be only when visually looking. When you click on it, it is correct. Hmm... odd.--VolteMetalic (talk) 10:24, June 9, 2014 (UTC)

Strongest Uchiha?Edit

Now that Sasuke has attained the power of the Six Paths and overwhelmed Madara multiple times, should Madara still be listed as the strongest uchiha?--ElvinWindSword (talk) 23:19, June 12, 2014 (UTC)

Interested in knowing also. Bump SusanooUnleashed (talk) 14:17, June 15, 2014 (UTC)

Madara is still stronger.
  • more experience
  • YYR
  • 3 Rinnegan
  • Wood Release
  • Shinju's jinchuuriki

While Sasuke is still young, has only Yin Release, 1 Rinnegan, (until confirmed otherwise) has no Wood Release and isn't a jinchuuriki. Am I missing something? Also it isn't our job to decide anyway, but the author's.--Elveonora (talk) 14:38, June 15, 2014 (UTC)

Not to mentioned Sasuke was never shown overwhelming Madara anyway. Madara both let him cut him in half and rendered everything Sasuke and Naruto threw at him in the end futile. (The Fox King (talk) 23:37, July 16, 2014 (UTC))

Deceased? Edit

It's incredibly premature to list him as such since we know nothing about what happened to him. --Mandon (talk) 06:56, June 15, 2014 (UTC)

I wouldn't say that. Remember when Kakashi died and his chakra completely vanished? Since Madara's chakra and anything related to it is gone, I'd say it's accurate to say that he's dead.--Hockey Machete (talk) 07:14, June 15, 2014 (UTC)

Death isn't the only thing that can make someone's chakra "vanish". When Sasuke hid inside Manda and unsummoned him his chakra was said to vanish. The fact that someone's chakra can no longer be sensed is not always a definitive indication as to their status.--Soul reaper (talk) 15:39, June 15, 2014 (UTC)

Appearance of MangekyouEdit

Is there a need to describe what his Mangekyou looks like in the abilities section? Shouldn't that be placed into the appearance section, or the Mangekyou Sharingan page? D.Phoenix (talk) 05:47, June 18, 2014 (UTC)

Susanoo clad Kurama anime picture? Edit

Is the anime picture of Madara's final Susanoo-clad Kurama worth adding? If so? Can somebody please do so?--JustaNobody (talk) 21:12, June 19, 2014 (UTC)

Not enough space. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:16, June 19, 2014 (UTC)

Maybe by removing repetitive lines, maybe that can free up some space to add the picture, and have those removed lines added to the Mangekyō Sharingan overview and info? Maybe? Maybe not?--JustaNobody (talk) 23:40, June 19, 2014 (UTC)

That's very rich coming from you, your Madara edits are the most repetitive and over-bloating there are. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:35, June 20, 2014 (UTC)

It was just a simple request is that so difficult, really?--JustaNobody (talk) 06:16, June 20, 2014 (UTC)

Tailed Beast Control to jutsu list? Edit

Is it worth adding the technique Tailed Beast Control to Madara's jutsu list, since it is mentioned under his abilities?--JustaNobody (talk) 02:48, June 21, 2014 (UTC)

That's just Genjutsu: Sharingan--Elveonora (talk) 11:35, June 21, 2014 (UTC)
Further, Tailed Beast Control isn't so much a technique, but a...type of skill. Like being able to throw a kunai, if you will.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 11:42, June 21, 2014 (UTC)

I guess he is dead Edit

If Naruto and Sasuke are going to seal Kaguya then there's no chance of Madara returning to the series. Does that give us grounds to list him as deceased? --Mandon (talk) 22:31, June 21, 2014 (UTC)

As of now, they're only planning to seal Kaguya away. They haven't done it yet. Madara's fate is still unknown, which is why "presumed deceased" is what should be used.Hot Cakes (talk) 21:46, June 24, 2014 (UTC)

Infobox image Edit

Which one do you prefer to be set in the infobox? The current one or the image that uploaded by M4ND0N‎? —Shakhmoot Nadeshiko Village Symbol (Talk) 23:09, June 21, 2014 (UTC)

I guess since it's clear where my position on this stands, I'll list my pros and cons.

Pros: - Frontal view - Natural color scheme of the armor [bright red, not darkened via Edo Tensei] - Image of Madara while he was alive and not an Edo Tensei Cons: - He's using Susanoo so the lighting's a little messed up.

However in my defense of this, the Susanoo isn't as noticeable when viewed from afar in an infobox and it just makes him seem a little blue-ish, but we previously used one with a blue tint in the past as well. It's still in my opinion the best image of Madara currently available and it wouldn't be permanent, since there's certainty of a better one arising in the coming episodes. I guess it comes down to whether you'd want a non-Edo image now or wait for one without Susanoo to arise. I don't see a problem with using it now, however. --Mandon (talk) 00:28, June 22, 2014 (UTC)

Why change it now? We have at least two to three flashback episodes that will have a plethora of images showing him alive, in the daylight, and in his prime. Why settle for something that is inherently flawed (no offense Mandon, its just that the Susanoo does effect the quality of the image) when we could literally wait a week or two at most and take our pick of the litter? ~ Ten Tailed Fox 20px 00:36, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
I agree with Ten Tailed - wait to change it. The current one can last a couple of more weeks. --Kasan94 Nara Symbol Talkpage 01:19, June 22, 2014 (UTC)

Isn't it official now that Hashirama is talking about reviving Madara that he is dead?--ElvinWindSword (talk) 19:43, July 3, 2014 (UTC)

They think he is dead. They still don't know for sure. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:58, July 3, 2014 (UTC)

And again Edit

Which one do you prefer to be set in the infobox? The current one or the image that uploaded by M4ND0N‎? —Shakhmoot Nadeshiko Village Symbol (Talk) 21:00, July 10, 2014 (UTC)

The current one. The image doesn't need changed at all. Nothing wrong with it at all. --SuperSajuuk Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | Channel 21:05, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
The badass one--Elveonora (talk) 21:10, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
I would still say the current one, out of those two --Kasan94 Nara Symbol Talkpage 21:11, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
The current one, because it's the most iconic look of him (red armor included)--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 21:23, July 10, 2014 (UTC)

Of course it needs to be changed, Sajuuk. The current image never should have been used to begin with. We only chose it because we assumed at the end of chapter 656 that that it was an accurate depiction of how Madara would look after being resurrected, since his eyes hadn't disintegrated yet. We don't use reanimation images if an acceptable living image of the character is available.. I'm pretty sure that precedent was established long ago, and this image was the only one to break it. --Mandon (talk) 22:39, July 10, 2014 (UTC)

Mandon, from the preview of the next episode, I find the smiled Madara's screenshot is very good one to be set in the infobox. But as TU3-sama said that the red armor is the symbol of this character. I think it's better to keep it, let's wait for the next episode to see that. —Shakhmoot Nadeshiko Village Symbol (Talk) 22:54, July 10, 2014 (UTC)

He doesn't have his armor in that one either. Plus there's no guarantee we will get a suitable image of him in his armor during this flashback.. what then? I don't think it's appropriate to keep an Edo Tensei image when there's plenty of viable images of him while he's alive. I guess we'll cross that road when we come to it. --Mandon (talk) 02:51, July 11, 2014 (UTC)

hows this? yes theres some Susanoo shit, but its still mostly a good color not being obscured and in perfect profile , and in his famous armor.--RexGodwin (talk) 06:17, July 21, 2014 (UTC)

I don't really like it, because of that Susanoo stuff. --Kasan94 Nara Symbol Talkpage 08:18, July 21, 2014 (UTC)

Let's just wait till he's resurrected in the anime. As much as I hate the current image, I can't find a suitable image in the flashback and believe me, I was thorough in searching for one. --Mandon (talk) 19:33, July 24, 2014 (UTC)

there wont be a better one of him being revived.. he immediately loses both eyes and loses his armor after. quite the contrary, theres a few good shots in this episode:

File:MadaraProD.png
File:MadaraProC.png
Madara newshot

Option C

File:MadaraProA.png
File:MadaraProposal E.jpeg

--RexGodwin (talk) 22:54, July 24, 2014 (UTC)

I'm okay with both B and D, with a preference for B. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 20px 23:19, July 24, 2014 (UTC)
C or D for me. --KirinNOTKarin98 (talk) 02:16, July 25, 2014 (UTC)

So in the absence of a decent image of Madara in his armor, I feel it's worth putting this one up as option E. It was the original image we used before we started waiting for a better photo from a flashback and quite frankly, I think it's fine, aside from the gray scale, it represents Madara's character much better than any of the proposed images, depicting him with his armor and gunbai, which is something no other photo can do. --Mandon (talk) 03:37, July 25, 2014 (UTC)

I am absolutely against that. Your option is in terrible quality, greyscale, and only represents Madara as he was seen earlier in the series. Not once since he became prominent, was he ever depicted with a headband on his forehead, for one. You simply don't see an image you like, but that doesn't mean that there wasn't a decent choice from the recent episodes, and options A through D are proof of that. That being said, Option C is probably our best choice. He's facing the "camera", if you will, it shows Madara's typical demeanor, and without any dōjutsu in his eyes. He is wearing his trademark Uchiha robes (he doesn't have the armor, but I really don't care about that) and, better yet, he's alive. I say change it to Option C and leave it that way. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 20px 05:03, July 25, 2014 (UTC)

I wasn't weighing these options based off whether I like an image or not. The artwork and animation for this episode was quite terrible, so yeah, I don't think any of the proposed are particularly suitable.

Additionally, your argument is extremely flawed. Not once was Madara depicted with a headband before he became a prominent character? Try 124 chapters ago when he appeared in Onoki's flashback. Bad argument is bad. The greyscale point of course, still stands, but it still represents his character better than any of the proposed images. Before Madara was even named let alone established as a major character, this is how he appeared, armor and all. His gunbai and clothing are part of his iconic appearance, so they are important.

However, with that being said Kishimoto changed the color of his gunbai so you could say my proposed image boasts a non-canon color scheme, but the gray scale fixes that problem. Regardless if that's a dealbreaker then I support option B for the slightly more refined artwork. --Mandon (talk) 06:07, July 25, 2014 (UTC)

I Support C and D. C have a better angle at him, while D have better light. --Kasan94 Nara Symbol Talkpage 08:09, July 25, 2014 (UTC)

Not sure what episode you saw, but the animation was just fine. Besides that depiction of Madara is very off how he normally looks in this day and age; just look at his hair then. And people need to stop obsessing over the red armor. -.- the focal point is his head/face so that is irrelevant. Plus that grey scale is awful. Maybe if it was properly colored but just no.--RexGodwin (talk) 08:55, July 25, 2014 (UTC)

Option C (Kuroiraikou (talk) 09:24, July 25, 2014 (UTC))

Not sure why changing the image is so important, as I've stated before we got incredibly lucky to get a good shot of him, armor and all and not looking like a reanimated corpse. I see no reason to switch to a less iconic picture just to have a picture of him not dead. Going through so many loops just to change the image just seems like a waste of time and energy. As such, I abstain from picking. Have fun.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 09:26, July 25, 2014 (UTC)
I honestly think the current one is fine. Yes, it's an image of him as an edo tensei, but none of the telltale cracks are there. He looks exactly as he did in life. My only problem is the lighting but in a case such as this I don't think it's too much of a deal breaker. That said, if it has to be changed I'd go with Option C. Good framing, good expression, good art. D has better lighting but it's not a great shot and something about it just makes him look younger.--Soul reaper (talk) 09:37, July 25, 2014 (UTC)

The image is not fine, it's too far away and not centered on his face. Also his clothes are satisfactory for the images proposed. Option C is the best as that's the facial expression Madara has on him most of the time, though Option D would be my second choice that just doesn't scream "Madara to me". So my choice is Option C as it showcases Madara's most used facial expression.--Narutofox94 (talk) 04:56, July 26, 2014 (UTC)

Looks like there's an overwhelming amount of support for option C. Guess that settles it --Mandon (talk) 01:32, July 27, 2014 (UTC)

Why is there an obsession to change the image of Madara? Seriously, pick one and leave it alone. These weekly discussions to change his image are getting disruptive and pointless. --SuperSajuuk Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | Channel 14:24, July 27, 2014 (UTC)

He needed a living image and now he has one. Case closed, there won't ever be new and better images of him to use so this is the one that stays, for good this time. --Mandon (talk) 09:42, August 2, 2014 (UTC)

Sources saying he is the strongest Uchiha in history? Edit

Can somebody please tell me the sources saying which chapters and pages saying he is  blatantly the strongest uchiha clan member in history; same thing with one of the most gifted shinobi in history?--JustaNobody (talk) 01:45, August 7, 2014 (UTC)

Something very interesting Edit

Madara used Sage Art: Storm Release Light Fang but none of the Shurikens Naruto used in latest chapter do we recognize as Storm, so there are two options:

  • the mystery scale powder Shuriken is in fact Storm Release
  • Madara had Storm Release on his own as a kekkei genkai

You pick--Elveonora (talk) 11:02, August 11, 2014 (UTC)

What has SR to do with Naruto's Rasen Shuriken? None of them were Blaze Release either, so is the scale powder one Blaze Release? • Seelentau 愛 11:10, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
Naruto used powers of all the Tailed Beasts for his 9 shurikens and none of them do we recognize as SR. Madara's usage of SR either comes from being a jinchuuriki or it was his Kekkei Genkai. So if the former, one of the Tailed Beasts has to have Storm Release.--Elveonora (talk) 11:12, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
Ah, I see. Then the black orb could be storm clouds and the whirly wind would be... well, whirly wind, hm? It doesn't fit the usual depiction of Storm Release in the manga, though. • Seelentau 愛 11:15, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
Then again, Madara's Storm Release is a slice of wind, too... • Seelentau 愛 11:47, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
Well, I just thought we might want to solve this sooner than later. According to wiki, Kabutomushi are linked to element of lightning due to their horn resembling a lightning rod, so that may be a vague connection. The white tornado-like stuff may be the Storm Release. The black core may be metalic scale powder--Elveonora (talk) 11:53, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
Why does it have to be both? • Seelentau 愛 11:55, August 11, 2014 (UTC)

Because Storm Release isn't black, so the black core has to be something else--Elveonora (talk) 11:56, August 11, 2014 (UTC)

Fire Release isn't blue either, still we say that the blue flames of Matatabi are Fire Release... • Seelentau 愛 12:01, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
Yes, but why would Chomeo's Storm Release be two-colored? Also the one Madara used was also white only like Darui's--Elveonora (talk) 12:06, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
It's not two-coloured. The wind around it is wind, not white beams or so. I believe that Madara used wind, too. • Seelentau 愛 12:16, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
Then why call wind storm release? Also if the white stuff is wind, that would imply the black is storm but Darui's Storm Release is all white/bluish--Elveonora (talk) 12:28, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
Because a storm is mostly made by strong winds. Yes, but different versions of one nature aren't uncommon (I'm looking at you, Lava Release). • Seelentau 愛 12:31, August 11, 2014 (UTC)

So would you oppose us changing scale powder to Storm Release? Unless you believe Madara was born with Storm Release or that one of the Tailed Beasts just decided not to use it with the Shuriken--Elveonora (talk) 12:34, August 11, 2014 (UTC)

I do oppose, because him using Storm Release after becoming the TTJ is no solid evidence that one of the beasts has SR. He uses YR and LR too, yet none of the beasts used those natures in the Rasen Shuriken, hm? • Seelentau 愛 12:38, August 11, 2014 (UTC)

I don't really understand this discussion, do the abilities of the nine tailed beasts really need to coincide with the abilities of a Shinju jinchūriki? --Atrix471 (talk) 12:38, August 11, 2014 (UTC)

If they don't, then Kaguya has Storm Release. It either came somewhere from the Ten-Tails or from Madara himself. @Seel, what is YR and LR?--Elveonora (talk) 12:41, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
Inton and Raiton. • Seelentau 愛 12:41, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
Both of them are basic natures. Madara could use YYR so that included Inton. Just because he didn't use Raiton prior to becoming a jinchuuriki doesn't mean he couldn't--Elveonora (talk) 12:43, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
Ever consider the fact that the Shinju is the origin of chakra, in all forms, and that it was used to create the Ten-Tails? Emphasis on all forms. --Atrix471 (talk) 12:44, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
So cool, so let's list Kaguya/Ten-Tails, Hagoromo, Obito and Madara as users of all known basic and advanced natures, because you say origin of chakra in all forms.--Elveonora (talk) 12:49, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
Well Hagoromo I wouldn't be surprised about, nor would I be for Kaguya. Madara canonically mastered all five basic chakra natures, so with the Shinju, I don't see why he couldn't mix them. Also I seem to recall Madara absorbing the Shinju, then using the storm release in the very next chapter... seems too scripted for coincidence. --Atrix471 (talk) 13:06, August 11, 2014 (UTC)

Possessing Hashirama Senju's life force and vitality? Edit

Is it worth adding on to Madara's abilities the possession of Hashirama Senju's vitality, physical energy and life force, particularly to his Chakra section?--JustaNobody (talk) 00:11, August 15, 2014 (UTC)--JustaNobody (talk) 00:18, August 15, 2014 (UTC)

It's somewhat noted in the 'body modifications' sections; mentioning his new regenerative powers and wood release. --Atrix471 (talk) 00:20, August 15, 2014 (UTC)
We shouldn't even mention these stupid things in my opinion, it irks me seeing them being thrown around everywhere. First, vitality is just another term that was used for life force, so they are the same thing. Second, we don't even know exactly what life force is, what it does and what difference its quantity/quality makes in comparison to those with lesser life force, third, same for physical energy, we don't know how anyone with strong physical energy differs from an ordinary folk.--Elveonora (talk) 08:52, August 15, 2014 (UTC)

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