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== Hashirama Face Implant ==
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Like, it's gone.--'''[[User:Koto Senju|Koto]]'''<small><sup>[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk Page]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|My Contributions]]</sup></small> 17:44, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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:When Kaguya left his body, it probably reverted back to ''his'' base form. Any alien entities, no matter how well ingrained, probably left with her. I'm gonna assume the Rinnegan is gone too. --[[User:Atrix471|Atrix471]] ([[User talk:Atrix471|talk]]) 18:32, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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::Likely an oversight--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:09, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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:::I'd wait for the next chapter. If Madara reappeared, it means he has still some role to play.--[[File:Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna.svg|15px]] [[User:JOA20|'''JOA''']][[User talk:JOA20|''20'']] 19:18, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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::::He is dead, without the slightest doubt. Seriously, I'm Madara's fan too, but why some people can't get over his death? Yes, it was half-assed, but it happened.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:22, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::@Elveo, Multiple screenshots were shown without the Hashi face implant. Why think it's an oversight? -- '''[[User:Koto Senju|Koto]]'''<small><sup>[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk Page]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|My Contributions]]</sup></small> 19:25, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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::::::@Elveo, I'm not saying Madara ''isn't'' dead, just that he, either his body or soul, has some role to play, otherwise Kishi wouldn't have bothered to make the Kages teleport his body back to Earth as well.--[[File:Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna.svg|15px]] [[User:JOA20|'''JOA''']][[User talk:JOA20|''20'']] 19:26, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::::Let's be honest, Hashirama just wanted to be with his bestie one last time... --[[User:Atrix471|Atrix471]] ([[User talk:Atrix471|talk]]) 19:29, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
   
<center><big><big><big>SPECULATION WILL BE REMOVED</big></big></big></center>
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== Dead? ==
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How can we be absolutely sure Madara's dead? He could just be unconscious. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 19:32, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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:We aren't, people just like to make assumptions. --[[User:Atrix471|Atrix471]] ([[User talk:Atrix471|talk]]) 19:33, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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::Yes, we are. When a Tailed Beast gets extracted, the jinchuuriki dies. In addition, he was already dead the moment Kaguya took over--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:36, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Generally speaking, when someone is stabbed and their body is used as a medium for the revival of another, they are dead. Considering that Madara's body was used as a medium to revive Kaguya, I would be very surprised if he's still alive. For now, Presumed Deceased is staying, unless a new chapter states he isn't. --[[User:SuperSajuuk|SuperSajuuk]] <sup><small>[[User talk:SuperSajuuk|Talk Page]] | [[User:SuperSajuuk/Images|My Image Uploads]] | [[User:SuperSajuuk/Tabber Code|Tabber Code]] | [http://youtube.com/LPSajuuk Channel]</small></sup> 19:37, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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::::Not only Kaguya took over which killed him, but also it is the manga's rule that extraction of a Tailed Beast kills the jinchuuriki.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:40, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::Obito got impaled through the chest and later forced to use a jutsu that guarantees death and he still lived through it. Besides, Madara's wounds are all gone now.. it's very possible that he's currently alive and will get a proper death scene in the next chapter. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 19:44, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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::::::We don't do "I think it's possible" the difference is that Obito had Black Zetsu, Gedo Mazo and Naruto's Jesus hand to keep him alive.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:47, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::::Please, we all know Kishi physically cannot leave a villain die without being redeemed in some way. If Madara dies, how will TNJ work? --[[User:Atrix471|Atrix471]] ([[User talk:Atrix471|talk]]) 19:49, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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::::::::All I'm saying is we can and should wait until there's absolutely no doubt he's dead. That's why we listed him as "Presumed Deceased" even after his existence was seemingly wiped out with Kaguya's revival. You've been told this time and time again Elv but for the millionth time, stop jumping to conclusions and editing articles with conjecture. Remember a few years ago when you opted for us to wait a week when Tobi was unmasked, even though all the evidence pointed to him being Obito? I hate it when people hold others to a standard they can't adhere to.. so like I said, let's just wait. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 19:52, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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:I think people are forgetting that the Tailed Beast Extraction killing the user rule doesn't apply too Jinchuriki's of the Shinju it only leaves them paralyzed.--[[User:Thdyingbreed|Thdyingbreed]] ([[User talk:Thdyingbreed|talk]]) 22:06, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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::If he really is dead, how can he be summoned? You are too quick to assume that Madara is dead, just like when you turned out to be wrong about Obito. Also, it was never confirmed that he died when Kaguya took over. [[User:Patsoumas1995|Patsoumas1995]] ([[User talk:Patsoumas1995|talk]]) 23:15, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
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:::@Thdying, that's not what was stated. The reason Hagoromo survived was because he extracted only the chakra while leaving the body of the Ten-Tails inside of him, which kept him alive but resulted in paralysis.
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:::@Patsoumas, Pains are corpses, they can be summoned. Kunai and Shuriken are inanimate, they can be summoned, your point?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 09:43, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
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::::Pain's corpses are reanimated through the power of the Rinnengan, and the Kunai & Shuriken are summoned through scrolls, not Summoning Technique. When a person dies, his chakra disappears, so how would Madara be summoned if he is dead? And also, I don't think that it is stated that the Jinchuriki dies immediately after the Bijuu is extracted. [[User:Patsoumas1995|Patsoumas1995]] ([[User talk:Patsoumas1995|talk]]) 10:09, August 30, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::The only point that matters is that Madara isn't definitively confirmed to be deceased, therefore we can't call him deceased. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 18:31, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
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::::::Except he is. Do I need to slap the chapter and page onto your face where Zetsu says how it's a rule that when a Tailed Beast is extracted, the jinchuuriki dies? Seriously, I like Madara too, but this fanboy bias is getting out of control. How you feel towards a certain character shouldn't affect what you want to go or don't want to go into his/her article.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 18:35, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::::Didn't seem to kill Killer B all that much. He's alive until he we know he's dead, though death is likely. "Presumed Deceased".--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Eye of Rikudō.svg|30px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 18:56, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
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:You beat me, well done, okay then. (I wonder how B survived though, the tentacle things makes me go crazy)--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:00, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
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::Need I remind you Elv that Madara still had the gedo statue inside of him [or Kaguya] when the TB's were extracted? That rule doesn't apply here. Madara was never explicitly confirmed to be dead, therefore we wait. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 19:38, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
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:::He didn't/doesn't have the "statue"--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:48, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
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::::He did when the Tailed Beasts were extracted, thus removing the certainty of death. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 20:55, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::Yin-Kurama stated that Ten-Tails' jinchūriki survive the tailed beasts' extraction only if they have the Demonic Statue in their body because of its strong life force – meaning, if the Statue is extracted as well, the jinchūriki's case is no different from any other tailed beast's jinchūriki.--[[File:Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna.svg|15px]] [[User:JOA20|'''JOA''']][[User talk:JOA20|''20'']] 21:06, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
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::::::I think you both need to re-read the chapter because you don't seem to remember the order of events. It wasn't Statue > Tailed beasts. It was Tailed Beasts > Statue, meaning the tailed beasts were extracted from Kaguya/Madara while the statue was still inside them and ''then'' the statue/Kaguya spat out Madara, meaning the effects of the statue are still in place. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 00:43, August 30, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::::There are no lasting effects. The "statue" keeps them alive only for as long as it's inside, not once it's extracted as well.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:39, August 30, 2014 (UTC)
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:If the jinchuriki dies immediately after the Biju/Gedo Mazo is removed, why was Obito still alive after Black Zetsu left his body? He had the Gedo Mazo & the 9 Biju extracted from his body AND he had used the Rinne Tensei. I'm sure Madara will eventually die after the extraction, but nothing says that he is already dead. [[User:Patsoumas1995|Patsoumas1995]] ([[User talk:Patsoumas1995|talk]]) 15:33, August 30, 2014 (UTC)
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::And as we all said, Madara was still alive. [[User:Patsoumas1995|Patsoumas1995]] ([[User talk:Patsoumas1995|talk]]) 11:39, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
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:::To say 2 sentences, thus was dead.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 11:40, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
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::::He was still alive, and died after that. It's different being dead & close to death. [[User:Patsoumas1995|Patsoumas1995]] ([[User talk:Patsoumas1995|talk]]) 12:36, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::Now he's '''very obviously dead''', can we stop this discussion and update the infobox? --[[User:SuperSajuuk|SuperSajuuk]] <sup><small>[[User talk:SuperSajuuk|Talk Page]] | [[User:SuperSajuuk/Images|My Image Uploads]] | [[User:SuperSajuuk/Tabber Code|Tabber Code]] | [http://youtube.com/LPSajuuk Channel]</small></sup> 12:39, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
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::::::Not saying he isn't dead '''now''', I'm saying that he wasn't dead in the previous chapter, as some were hurried to assume. [[User:Patsoumas1995|Patsoumas1995]] ([[User talk:Patsoumas1995|talk]]) 12:45, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
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There's no need to pick at people with hindsight. Let it simply be a lesson to people not to jump the gun when they think somebody's dead. Nobody was denying he'd probably die in the next chapter anyways. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 17:15, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Amaterasu ==
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== Storm Release is not his kekkei genkai ==
   
When was it stated in the manga that having Susanoo and Tsukuyomi automatically meant you had Amaterasu??? cause Madara and Obito both claimed to be able to use Tsukuyomi, and while it is true that both Sasuke and Itachi were able to use all 3 jutsu, Tobi showed surprise at Sasuke using Susanoo, even though he knew Sasuke had Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi....... Madara wasn't shown using Amaterasu yet so isn't him knowing just speculation??? those 3 jutsu being a package deal was never once stated as fact...... or am I wrong, cause if so, what chapter???
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He gained it by becoming the Juubie's jinchuriki, just like Rosh and Naruto gained Lava Release from Son, its not a kekkei genkai it's a tailed beast skill.--[[User:Hunter4522|Hunter4522]] ([[User talk:Hunter4522|talk]]) 23:26, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
--[[User:Deathmailrock|Deathmailrock]] ([[User talk:Deathmailrock|talk]]) 08:27, May 2, 2013 (UTC)
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:We don't know for sure either way, you can't be so sure.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 09:43, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
:It was stated in a databook.'''~ [[User:UltimateSupreme|<span style="color:blue;">Ultimate</span>]][[User talk:UltimateSupreme|<span style="color:#EE2C2C;">Supreme</span>]]''' 08:36, May 2, 2013 (UTC)
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::The ones that posses all bijuu chakras can create the truth seeking ball and have all the chakra natures and kekkei genkai--[[User:Hunter4522|Hunter4522]] ([[User talk:Hunter4522|talk]]) 15:11, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Actually, no such thing was stated in official translation about all kekkei genkai. Fire, Wind, Earth, Lightning, Wood, Yin, Yang were attributed to Kaguya, with Wood possibly being an error, supposed to be Water instead.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 18:30, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
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::::So how is Wood Release a kekkei genkai? Is it because the Uchiha and Senju are both descended from the Sage of the Six Paths? I thought Wood Release was only a Senju kekkei genkai...[[User talk:Banan14kab|'''''<span style="color:black">Banan'''''</span><span style="color:grey">'''14'''</span>'''''<span style="color:crimson" >kab</span>''''']]
   
== About Jutsu ==
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== Wind release ==
   
This is mistaken or what? but I didn't see Susano'o as Madara Technique at Jutsu List, please fix it.[[Special:Contributions/203.201.173.210|203.201.173.210]] ([[User talk:203.201.173.210|talk]]) 04:52, May 5, 2013 (UTC)
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I thought Madara's wind release was anime only so why is that caption gone?--[[User:Rinneganmaster|Rinneganmaster]] ([[User talk:Rinneganmaster|talk]]) 20:07, August 31, 2014 (UTC)
:Infobox bug. No infobox is currently showing jutsu characters have only used in the manga, but that have already appeared in the anime being used by someone else. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 04:56, May 5, 2013 (UTC)
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:Because he used Storm Release, which is made up of Wind and Water. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|]]</sup> 20:11, August 31, 2014 (UTC)
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::That would be Ice... Lightning and Water you mean. You should go to bed :P--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 20:12, August 31, 2014 (UTC)
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:::...hmph. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 20:12, August 31, 2014 (UTC)
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Exactly, I believe we should put anime only.--[[User:Rinneganmaster|Rinneganmaster]] ([[User talk:Rinneganmaster|talk]]) 23:00, August 31, 2014 (UTC)
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:Yeah, why was the anime only tag removed?--[[User:WindStar7125|<font color="blue">'''''WindStar7125'''''</font>]] [[File:WindStar7125 Task.svg|20px|link=User:WindStar7125]] [[User talk:WindStar7125|<sup>(Talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/WindStar7125|<sub>(Contribs)</sub>]] 00:37, September 1, 2014 (UTC)
   
== all paths techniques ==
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Hey shouldn't the Storm Release be listed in Madara's kekkei genkai, after all it is an advance chakra nature and a bloodline trait. I mean I know Madara only acessed it through like the six paths senjutsu but still it should be added its a form of kekkei genkai. i'm not saying that we should list his storm release jutsu as a kekkei genkai, but just simply put it in his infobox. --[[User:Tuxedo12|Tuxedo12]] ([[User talk:Tuxedo12|talk]]) 04:38, September 3, 2014 (UTC)
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:We don't know how he could use it. Stating it was because of jinchuuriki status is no more speculative than stating it was because of kkg, because at the end of the day, we don't know--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 08:24, September 3, 2014
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(UTC)
   
When Madara was about to train Obito, he told him he is gonna teach six paths technique, meaning shouldn't we list him as a user also of others besides Preta and Deva? Not to mention he ordered Obito to use that black rod meaning Outer one too--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:09, May 9, 2013 (UTC)
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Did Kaguya say the Truthseeking ball is made of all elements? If that's true than Madara's a wind release user.--[[User:Rinneganmaster|Rinneganmaster]] ([[User talk:Rinneganmaster|talk]]) 21:13, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
: I pondered on your inquiry for a while, and come to think of it, I agree. I mean, by priciple alone, we've added Monzaemon's respected puppet techniques and we added Izanagi to Madara. [[User:JaZZBaND|JaZZBaND]] ([[User talk:JaZZBaND|talk]]) 13:33, May 9, 2013 (UTC)
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:There's a still an argument going if the description was about her own alone or in general--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:15, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
   
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== Loss of Rinnegan ==
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Since when, I wonder, does a loss of Hashirama's face mean Madara has lost his Rinnegan, when he didn't have that when he awoke those eyes? Thats not confirmed anywhere. Nor is it conformed that a loss of hashirama's cells at all would mean he lost the Rinnegan. Its a kekkei genkai and was in his blood from the time he awakened it. ([[User:The Fox King|The Fox King]] [[User talk:The Fox King|(talk)]] 21:59, September 4, 2014 (UTC))
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:The manga made it quite clear, Madara lost all his enhancements before death. If he still had Hashirama's cells, they would have helped him survive like they did with Obito. If he still had his Rinnegan, Mdara's eyes would have still shown it. The Rinnegan was only awoken by a combination of Indra and Asura's chakra, and Madara lost Asura's chakra thus his eyes reverted back to the state they were before. Its really quite simple. --[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 22:14, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
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::Madara is able to switched between Rinnegan and other dojutsu at will, and may just have been too weak to keep it active at death. Again, we don't know he lost all of hashirama's cells, just the face, which wasn't there at the start. Plus Rinnegan isn't an enhancement for Madara, its naturally his. --[[User:The Fox King|The Fox King]] [[User talk:The Fox King|(talk)]] 22:19, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
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:::@Saiyaman No, that really is quite stupid. Madara's eyes did exactly what Itachi's did when he died and turned back into their normal form. Madara awakened the Rinnegan. It doesn't just disappear. When they run out of chakra, their eyes go back to normal, because the eyes require chakra to remain active. So, before you try again, SuperSaiyaMan, you are not to add anything about Madara losing the Rinnegan because he didn't. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Rinnegan Sasuke.svg|20px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 22:21, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
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::::Uh, we see the Sharingan still in his eyes meaning that comparison doesn't make sense, Ten-Tailed Fox. The tomoe were still there. And Hagoromo made it clear how a Rinnegan is awoken: Indra and Asura's chakra mixes together, bringing out Hagoromo's. If Madara still possessed Hashirama's cells, why did he die so quickly compared to Obito? --[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 22:24, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::Obito had things like the Gedo Statue, Black Zetsu, a higher concentration of Hashirama's cells, and Naruto's "Jesus" hand keeping him alive all that time at different points. Thats why. Madara had, at the end from the looks of it, at best just the cells he stuck in his chest originally, which again we don't know he lost and none of those other things. --[[User:The Fox King|The Fox King]] [[User talk:The Fox King|(talk)]] 22:27, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
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::::::Um, @SuperSaiyaMan, where are the tomoe? I see no Sharingan in his eyes at all. They just look blank. --[[User:WindStar7125|<font color="blue">'''''WindStar7125'''''</font>]] [[File:WindStar7125 Task.svg|20px|link=User talk:WindStar7125]] [[File:WindStar7125's Task.svg|20px|link=Special:Contributions/WindStar7125|]] 22:30, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::::Page 9, bottom right panel. You see the Tomoe in the edges. Though if Ten Tailed Fox doesn't want it to be put down, okay. Maybe in the next chapters we'll get some confirmation since no one in their right mind would want those Rinnegan to stay around with Orochimaru being there. --[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 22:34, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
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:I've already seen the page, I know what I said when I typed in "They just look blank." Those aren't tomoe. It looks like he used Izanagi twice or something. --[[User:WindStar7125|<font color="blue">'''''WindStar7125'''''</font>]] [[File:WindStar7125 Task.svg|20px|link=User talk:WindStar7125]] [[File:WindStar7125's Task.svg|20px|link=Special:Contributions/WindStar7125|]] 22:39, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
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::If the Rinnengan disappears when Indra's & Asura's chakra are not combined, how could Nagato, who only has Indra's through the eyes, keep the Rinnengan active? --[[User:Patsoumas1995|Patsoumas1995]] ([[User talk:Patsoumas1995|talk]]) 23:21, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
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:::I think its due to being a Uzumaki and Senju descendant he was able to maintain the implanted Rinnegan, given both clans are descended from Asura. --[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 00:40, September 5, 2014 (UTC)
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::::I suppose that's why he was called 3rd Six Paths despite it having been just an implant --[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 10:12, September 5, 2014 (UTC)
   
Madara knows and can use them all, so can Obito. I mean Obito taught Nagato all of the six paths techniques..... [[Special:Contributions/96.241.55.117|96.241.55.117]] ([[User talk:96.241.55.117|talk]]) 20:52, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
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== Dead 3 times ==
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Madara has never died 3 times during the entire series, but 2. He died the first time when he was an old man, he got revived during the war by Obito's Rinne Tensei and died for his second and last time when Kaguya was defeated and Madara had the Jubi extracted from his body.
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I red over there that some users are taking madara's status when Kaguya took over his body as dead, which is not right. He just was unconscious, deeply inside Kaguya. And the irrefutable fact that he had never died after this event, despite some characters of the series thinking the opposite (Tobirama's attempt to use Edo Tensei), is clearly given to us 2 chapters ago; Kaguya defeated, and Madara ALIVE sharing his last moments with Hashirama.
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Please, we have to begin to use common sense when we create discussion articles. Have that trivia note about his deaths erased, it's not true. --[[User:KILLERBEE479|KILLERBEE479]] ([[User talk:KILLERBEE479|talk]]) 19:07, September 10, 2014 (UTC)
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: The first time he died at Hashirama's hands and revived himself through Izanagi. The Second as an old man. The Third time was after extracting the Tailed Beasts.--[[User:MERCURIOUS|MERCURIOUS]] ([[User talk:MERCURIOUS|talk]]) 19:11, September 10, 2014 (UTC)
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== Fire Release ==
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is it safe to assume that fire is his affinity, and maybe add it to the infobox...based on the fact that uchiha members have affinity for & proficiency with it...also for the most part of the series he used this nature more over the others... --[[User:DARK ZER06|DARK ZER06]] ([[User talk:DARK ZER06|talk]]) 11:50, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
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:No assumptions. For example according to the anime, Sasuke's affinity is Lightning. And yeah, I know manga > anime, but we can't ignore the anime. But just in case the anime is correct in Lightning being Sasuke's affinity, then it may be possible for someone to have 2 affinities. In fact, according to the anime, advanced nature kekkei genkai = having affinity for 2 natures thus being capable to merge them. They pulled this outta their arses, because Kishi said no such thing, but again, in case they are right, then Sasuke's affinities may be both Fire and Lightning and taking the kekkei genkai part into consideration, it would explain Blaze Release :D :D :D--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 11:56, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
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::There can't be two affinities, because that would not be what an affinity is. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 11:59, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Tell that to Studio Pierrot :P In fact, there may be 3 (Kekkei Tota) according to them. Now I mention it, I don't think we have documented this anywhere, we simply ignored it I guess--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:03, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
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well if someone has affinity for 2 natures or more then it's not necessary to put it for both natures at all...but if someone like naruto or kakashi has an affinity for one nature & uses that one nature more that other natures as in kakashi's case then it's right to put affinity for that nature in the infobox...I'm suggesting the same for madara's fire...and maybe obito too now that I think about it...since he too hade fire as his original nature and used it more that other natures...and possibly any other character with these conditions...like...idk temari for example...or kitsuchi...or earth for onoki...hope I've made my point clear... --[[User:DARK ZER06|DARK ZER06]] ([[User talk:DARK ZER06|talk]]) 12:06, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
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:Frequency of nature's usage isn't necessarily a determinant of an affinity.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:08, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
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then what is... --[[User:DARK ZER06|DARK ZER06]] ([[User talk:DARK ZER06|talk]]) 12:11, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
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:Affinity means natural talent towards a certain nature... a genetic predisposition if you will.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:14, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
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doesn't madara have that natural talent & genetic predisposition towards fire?...based on what V've seen from him in the manga... --[[User:DARK ZER06|DARK ZER06]] ([[User talk:DARK ZER06|talk]]) 12:21, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
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:Likely, but we weren't told Fire is his affinity, so we can't assume so--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:23, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
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sooo...V R putting the term affinity for only 2 characters in the entire series in this wiki & not for other characters with similar conditions?...ok --[[User:DARK ZER06|DARK ZER06]] ([[User talk:DARK ZER06|talk]]) 12:26, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
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:Because we were told what those characters' affinities are.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:29, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 12:29, September 15, 2014

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Hashirama Face Implant Edit

Like, it's gone.--KotoTalk Page-My Contributions 17:44, August 28, 2014 (UTC)

When Kaguya left his body, it probably reverted back to his base form. Any alien entities, no matter how well ingrained, probably left with her. I'm gonna assume the Rinnegan is gone too. --Atrix471 (talk) 18:32, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
Likely an oversight--Elveonora (talk) 19:09, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
I'd wait for the next chapter. If Madara reappeared, it means he has still some role to play.--Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna JOA20 19:18, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
He is dead, without the slightest doubt. Seriously, I'm Madara's fan too, but why some people can't get over his death? Yes, it was half-assed, but it happened.--Elveonora (talk) 19:22, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
@Elveo, Multiple screenshots were shown without the Hashi face implant. Why think it's an oversight? -- KotoTalk Page-My Contributions 19:25, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
@Elveo, I'm not saying Madara isn't dead, just that he, either his body or soul, has some role to play, otherwise Kishi wouldn't have bothered to make the Kages teleport his body back to Earth as well.--Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna JOA20 19:26, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
Let's be honest, Hashirama just wanted to be with his bestie one last time... --Atrix471 (talk) 19:29, August 28, 2014 (UTC)

Dead? Edit

How can we be absolutely sure Madara's dead? He could just be unconscious. --Mandon (talk) 19:32, August 28, 2014 (UTC)

We aren't, people just like to make assumptions. --Atrix471 (talk) 19:33, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
Yes, we are. When a Tailed Beast gets extracted, the jinchuuriki dies. In addition, he was already dead the moment Kaguya took over--Elveonora (talk) 19:36, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
Generally speaking, when someone is stabbed and their body is used as a medium for the revival of another, they are dead. Considering that Madara's body was used as a medium to revive Kaguya, I would be very surprised if he's still alive. For now, Presumed Deceased is staying, unless a new chapter states he isn't. --SuperSajuuk Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | Channel 19:37, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
Not only Kaguya took over which killed him, but also it is the manga's rule that extraction of a Tailed Beast kills the jinchuuriki.--Elveonora (talk) 19:40, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
Obito got impaled through the chest and later forced to use a jutsu that guarantees death and he still lived through it. Besides, Madara's wounds are all gone now.. it's very possible that he's currently alive and will get a proper death scene in the next chapter. --Mandon (talk) 19:44, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
We don't do "I think it's possible" the difference is that Obito had Black Zetsu, Gedo Mazo and Naruto's Jesus hand to keep him alive.--Elveonora (talk) 19:47, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
Please, we all know Kishi physically cannot leave a villain die without being redeemed in some way. If Madara dies, how will TNJ work? --Atrix471 (talk) 19:49, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
All I'm saying is we can and should wait until there's absolutely no doubt he's dead. That's why we listed him as "Presumed Deceased" even after his existence was seemingly wiped out with Kaguya's revival. You've been told this time and time again Elv but for the millionth time, stop jumping to conclusions and editing articles with conjecture. Remember a few years ago when you opted for us to wait a week when Tobi was unmasked, even though all the evidence pointed to him being Obito? I hate it when people hold others to a standard they can't adhere to.. so like I said, let's just wait. --Mandon (talk) 19:52, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
I think people are forgetting that the Tailed Beast Extraction killing the user rule doesn't apply too Jinchuriki's of the Shinju it only leaves them paralyzed.--Thdyingbreed (talk) 22:06, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
If he really is dead, how can he be summoned? You are too quick to assume that Madara is dead, just like when you turned out to be wrong about Obito. Also, it was never confirmed that he died when Kaguya took over. Patsoumas1995 (talk) 23:15, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
@Thdying, that's not what was stated. The reason Hagoromo survived was because he extracted only the chakra while leaving the body of the Ten-Tails inside of him, which kept him alive but resulted in paralysis.
@Patsoumas, Pains are corpses, they can be summoned. Kunai and Shuriken are inanimate, they can be summoned, your point?--Elveonora (talk) 09:43, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
Pain's corpses are reanimated through the power of the Rinnengan, and the Kunai & Shuriken are summoned through scrolls, not Summoning Technique. When a person dies, his chakra disappears, so how would Madara be summoned if he is dead? And also, I don't think that it is stated that the Jinchuriki dies immediately after the Bijuu is extracted. Patsoumas1995 (talk) 10:09, August 30, 2014 (UTC)
The only point that matters is that Madara isn't definitively confirmed to be deceased, therefore we can't call him deceased. --Mandon (talk) 18:31, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
Except he is. Do I need to slap the chapter and page onto your face where Zetsu says how it's a rule that when a Tailed Beast is extracted, the jinchuuriki dies? Seriously, I like Madara too, but this fanboy bias is getting out of control. How you feel towards a certain character shouldn't affect what you want to go or don't want to go into his/her article.--Elveonora (talk) 18:35, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
Didn't seem to kill Killer B all that much. He's alive until he we know he's dead, though death is likely. "Presumed Deceased".--TheUltimate3 Eye of Rikudō (talk) 18:56, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
You beat me, well done, okay then. (I wonder how B survived though, the tentacle things makes me go crazy)--Elveonora (talk) 19:00, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
Need I remind you Elv that Madara still had the gedo statue inside of him [or Kaguya] when the TB's were extracted? That rule doesn't apply here. Madara was never explicitly confirmed to be dead, therefore we wait. --Mandon (talk) 19:38, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
He didn't/doesn't have the "statue"--Elveonora (talk) 19:48, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
He did when the Tailed Beasts were extracted, thus removing the certainty of death. --Mandon (talk) 20:55, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
Yin-Kurama stated that Ten-Tails' jinchūriki survive the tailed beasts' extraction only if they have the Demonic Statue in their body because of its strong life force – meaning, if the Statue is extracted as well, the jinchūriki's case is no different from any other tailed beast's jinchūriki.--Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna JOA20 21:06, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
I think you both need to re-read the chapter because you don't seem to remember the order of events. It wasn't Statue > Tailed beasts. It was Tailed Beasts > Statue, meaning the tailed beasts were extracted from Kaguya/Madara while the statue was still inside them and then the statue/Kaguya spat out Madara, meaning the effects of the statue are still in place. --Mandon (talk) 00:43, August 30, 2014 (UTC)
There are no lasting effects. The "statue" keeps them alive only for as long as it's inside, not once it's extracted as well.--Elveonora (talk) 12:39, August 30, 2014 (UTC)
If the jinchuriki dies immediately after the Biju/Gedo Mazo is removed, why was Obito still alive after Black Zetsu left his body? He had the Gedo Mazo & the 9 Biju extracted from his body AND he had used the Rinne Tensei. I'm sure Madara will eventually die after the extraction, but nothing says that he is already dead. Patsoumas1995 (talk) 15:33, August 30, 2014 (UTC)
And as we all said, Madara was still alive. Patsoumas1995 (talk) 11:39, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
To say 2 sentences, thus was dead.--Elveonora (talk) 11:40, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
He was still alive, and died after that. It's different being dead & close to death. Patsoumas1995 (talk) 12:36, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
Now he's very obviously dead, can we stop this discussion and update the infobox? --SuperSajuuk Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | Channel 12:39, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
Not saying he isn't dead now, I'm saying that he wasn't dead in the previous chapter, as some were hurried to assume. Patsoumas1995 (talk) 12:45, September 4, 2014 (UTC)

There's no need to pick at people with hindsight. Let it simply be a lesson to people not to jump the gun when they think somebody's dead. Nobody was denying he'd probably die in the next chapter anyways. --Mandon (talk) 17:15, September 4, 2014 (UTC)

Storm Release is not his kekkei genkai Edit

He gained it by becoming the Juubie's jinchuriki, just like Rosh and Naruto gained Lava Release from Son, its not a kekkei genkai it's a tailed beast skill.--Hunter4522 (talk) 23:26, August 28, 2014 (UTC)

We don't know for sure either way, you can't be so sure.--Elveonora (talk) 09:43, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
The ones that posses all bijuu chakras can create the truth seeking ball and have all the chakra natures and kekkei genkai--Hunter4522 (talk) 15:11, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
Actually, no such thing was stated in official translation about all kekkei genkai. Fire, Wind, Earth, Lightning, Wood, Yin, Yang were attributed to Kaguya, with Wood possibly being an error, supposed to be Water instead.--Elveonora (talk) 18:30, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
So how is Wood Release a kekkei genkai? Is it because the Uchiha and Senju are both descended from the Sage of the Six Paths? I thought Wood Release was only a Senju kekkei genkai...Banan14kab

Wind release Edit

I thought Madara's wind release was anime only so why is that caption gone?--Rinneganmaster (talk) 20:07, August 31, 2014 (UTC)

Because he used Storm Release, which is made up of Wind and Water. • Seelentau 愛 20:11, August 31, 2014 (UTC)
That would be Ice... Lightning and Water you mean. You should go to bed :P--Elveonora (talk) 20:12, August 31, 2014 (UTC)
...hmph. • Seelentau 愛 20:12, August 31, 2014 (UTC)

Exactly, I believe we should put anime only.--Rinneganmaster (talk) 23:00, August 31, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, why was the anime only tag removed?--WindStar7125 WindStar7125 Task (Talk) (Contribs) 00:37, September 1, 2014 (UTC)

Hey shouldn't the Storm Release be listed in Madara's kekkei genkai, after all it is an advance chakra nature and a bloodline trait. I mean I know Madara only acessed it through like the six paths senjutsu but still it should be added its a form of kekkei genkai. i'm not saying that we should list his storm release jutsu as a kekkei genkai, but just simply put it in his infobox. --Tuxedo12 (talk) 04:38, September 3, 2014 (UTC)

We don't know how he could use it. Stating it was because of jinchuuriki status is no more speculative than stating it was because of kkg, because at the end of the day, we don't know--Elveonora (talk) 08:24, September 3, 2014

(UTC)

Did Kaguya say the Truthseeking ball is made of all elements? If that's true than Madara's a wind release user.--Rinneganmaster (talk) 21:13, September 4, 2014 (UTC)

There's a still an argument going if the description was about her own alone or in general--Elveonora (talk) 21:15, September 4, 2014 (UTC)

Loss of Rinnegan Edit

Since when, I wonder, does a loss of Hashirama's face mean Madara has lost his Rinnegan, when he didn't have that when he awoke those eyes? Thats not confirmed anywhere. Nor is it conformed that a loss of hashirama's cells at all would mean he lost the Rinnegan. Its a kekkei genkai and was in his blood from the time he awakened it. (The Fox King (talk) 21:59, September 4, 2014 (UTC))

The manga made it quite clear, Madara lost all his enhancements before death. If he still had Hashirama's cells, they would have helped him survive like they did with Obito. If he still had his Rinnegan, Mdara's eyes would have still shown it. The Rinnegan was only awoken by a combination of Indra and Asura's chakra, and Madara lost Asura's chakra thus his eyes reverted back to the state they were before. Its really quite simple. --SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 22:14, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
Madara is able to switched between Rinnegan and other dojutsu at will, and may just have been too weak to keep it active at death. Again, we don't know he lost all of hashirama's cells, just the face, which wasn't there at the start. Plus Rinnegan isn't an enhancement for Madara, its naturally his. --The Fox King (talk) 22:19, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
@Saiyaman No, that really is quite stupid. Madara's eyes did exactly what Itachi's did when he died and turned back into their normal form. Madara awakened the Rinnegan. It doesn't just disappear. When they run out of chakra, their eyes go back to normal, because the eyes require chakra to remain active. So, before you try again, SuperSaiyaMan, you are not to add anything about Madara losing the Rinnegan because he didn't. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Rinnegan Sasuke 22:21, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
Uh, we see the Sharingan still in his eyes meaning that comparison doesn't make sense, Ten-Tailed Fox. The tomoe were still there. And Hagoromo made it clear how a Rinnegan is awoken: Indra and Asura's chakra mixes together, bringing out Hagoromo's. If Madara still possessed Hashirama's cells, why did he die so quickly compared to Obito? --SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 22:24, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
Obito had things like the Gedo Statue, Black Zetsu, a higher concentration of Hashirama's cells, and Naruto's "Jesus" hand keeping him alive all that time at different points. Thats why. Madara had, at the end from the looks of it, at best just the cells he stuck in his chest originally, which again we don't know he lost and none of those other things. --The Fox King (talk) 22:27, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
Um, @SuperSaiyaMan, where are the tomoe? I see no Sharingan in his eyes at all. They just look blank. --WindStar7125 WindStar7125 Task WindStar7125's Task 22:30, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
Page 9, bottom right panel. You see the Tomoe in the edges. Though if Ten Tailed Fox doesn't want it to be put down, okay. Maybe in the next chapters we'll get some confirmation since no one in their right mind would want those Rinnegan to stay around with Orochimaru being there. --SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 22:34, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
I've already seen the page, I know what I said when I typed in "They just look blank." Those aren't tomoe. It looks like he used Izanagi twice or something. --WindStar7125 WindStar7125 Task WindStar7125's Task 22:39, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
If the Rinnengan disappears when Indra's & Asura's chakra are not combined, how could Nagato, who only has Indra's through the eyes, keep the Rinnengan active? --Patsoumas1995 (talk) 23:21, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
I think its due to being a Uzumaki and Senju descendant he was able to maintain the implanted Rinnegan, given both clans are descended from Asura. --SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 00:40, September 5, 2014 (UTC)
I suppose that's why he was called 3rd Six Paths despite it having been just an implant --Elveonora (talk) 10:12, September 5, 2014 (UTC)

Dead 3 times Edit

Madara has never died 3 times during the entire series, but 2. He died the first time when he was an old man, he got revived during the war by Obito's Rinne Tensei and died for his second and last time when Kaguya was defeated and Madara had the Jubi extracted from his body. I red over there that some users are taking madara's status when Kaguya took over his body as dead, which is not right. He just was unconscious, deeply inside Kaguya. And the irrefutable fact that he had never died after this event, despite some characters of the series thinking the opposite (Tobirama's attempt to use Edo Tensei), is clearly given to us 2 chapters ago; Kaguya defeated, and Madara ALIVE sharing his last moments with Hashirama. Please, we have to begin to use common sense when we create discussion articles. Have that trivia note about his deaths erased, it's not true. --KILLERBEE479 (talk) 19:07, September 10, 2014 (UTC)

The first time he died at Hashirama's hands and revived himself through Izanagi. The Second as an old man. The Third time was after extracting the Tailed Beasts.--MERCURIOUS (talk) 19:11, September 10, 2014 (UTC)

Fire Release Edit

is it safe to assume that fire is his affinity, and maybe add it to the infobox...based on the fact that uchiha members have affinity for & proficiency with it...also for the most part of the series he used this nature more over the others... --DARK ZER06 (talk) 11:50, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

No assumptions. For example according to the anime, Sasuke's affinity is Lightning. And yeah, I know manga > anime, but we can't ignore the anime. But just in case the anime is correct in Lightning being Sasuke's affinity, then it may be possible for someone to have 2 affinities. In fact, according to the anime, advanced nature kekkei genkai = having affinity for 2 natures thus being capable to merge them. They pulled this outta their arses, because Kishi said no such thing, but again, in case they are right, then Sasuke's affinities may be both Fire and Lightning and taking the kekkei genkai part into consideration, it would explain Blaze Release :D :D :D--Elveonora (talk) 11:56, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
There can't be two affinities, because that would not be what an affinity is. • Seelentau 愛 11:59, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
Tell that to Studio Pierrot :P In fact, there may be 3 (Kekkei Tota) according to them. Now I mention it, I don't think we have documented this anywhere, we simply ignored it I guess--Elveonora (talk) 12:03, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

well if someone has affinity for 2 natures or more then it's not necessary to put it for both natures at all...but if someone like naruto or kakashi has an affinity for one nature & uses that one nature more that other natures as in kakashi's case then it's right to put affinity for that nature in the infobox...I'm suggesting the same for madara's fire...and maybe obito too now that I think about it...since he too hade fire as his original nature and used it more that other natures...and possibly any other character with these conditions...like...idk temari for example...or kitsuchi...or earth for onoki...hope I've made my point clear... --DARK ZER06 (talk) 12:06, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

Frequency of nature's usage isn't necessarily a determinant of an affinity.--Elveonora (talk) 12:08, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

then what is... --DARK ZER06 (talk) 12:11, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

Affinity means natural talent towards a certain nature... a genetic predisposition if you will.--Elveonora (talk) 12:14, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

doesn't madara have that natural talent & genetic predisposition towards fire?...based on what V've seen from him in the manga... --DARK ZER06 (talk) 12:21, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

Likely, but we weren't told Fire is his affinity, so we can't assume so--Elveonora (talk) 12:23, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

sooo...V R putting the term affinity for only 2 characters in the entire series in this wiki & not for other characters with similar conditions?...ok --DARK ZER06 (talk) 12:26, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

Because we were told what those characters' affinities are.--Elveonora (talk) 12:29, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

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