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<center><big><big><big>SPECULATION WILL BE REMOVED</big></big></big></center>
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== Deceased vs. Incapacitated ==
   
== Kabuto didn't enhance Madara's power ==
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His body exploded to pieces, and in his place Kaguya returns to life. How is he incapacitated? He should be noted as deceased, like Obito is now. [[User:Yatanogarasu|Yatanogarasu]] ([[User_talk:Yatanogarasu|Talk]]) 06:29, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
   
Chapter 601 has provided an effective explanation of what Kabuto meant by "resurrecting Madara beyond his prime". We saw that Madara was elderly, much more so than the likes of Danzo, Hiruzen or the elders. Like 85+ years old. And still, he was resurrected in his youthful form. That's what Kabuto's experimentation was about. He managed to revive Madara with all the power he has amassed right until his death, yet in a youthful body. That's what makes him "complete beyond his prime". It's not like Kabuto added any powers to Madara, he just made him young again (Madara himself said very much the same thing). I thereby suggest to reword all the instances suggesting that Kabuto's experimentation made Madara more powerful. It should be stated more as that it brought him back in his youthful body but with all the powers he had acquired until his old age, inclusive. [[User:Xfing|Xfing]] ([[User talk:Xfing|talk]]) 19:15, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
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I could be wrong but I doubt Kishimoto would kill off someone like Madara like that. With that immortality he acquired, I'm not sure what to believe about his status even if he is blown to bits.--[[User:Hockey Machete|Hockey Machete]] ([[User talk:Hockey Machete|talk]]) 06:33, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
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:Well, Madara's body kind of "shrunk down", it isn't like he went "boom" and then Kaguya appeared. It's a bit weird, that much at least.--[[User:JOA20|JOA20]] ([[User talk:JOA20|talk]]) 06:35, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
   
No, reviving his into his prime = making him young again. "Beyond his prime" = stronger than in his youth.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:24, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
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I think Madara isn't completely dead yet, as Hashi taught Sasuke a jutsu that responds to the senjutsu chakra Madara absorbed from Hashi, in an effort to stop and save him. [[User:Wisenoob|Wisenoob]] ([[User talk:Wisenoob|talk]]) 06:56, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
   
:That's what I said. He's revived into his prime age-wise, but has powers exceeding it, like the Rinnegan he awakened shortly before his death. So what Kabuto did is just revive Madara young with all the powers he amassed into old age. This doesn't mean for example that the Hashirama face on Madara's chest is an effect of Kabuto's work like the article suggests. [[User:Xfing|Xfing]] ([[User talk:Xfing|talk]]) 21:21, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
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Presumed Deceased exists for cases like this one--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 10:57, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
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:Madara was transformed into Kaguya. That's more like incapacitated than presumed deceased. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 11:10, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
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::Except incapacitated sounds like a temporary condition. Do you expect Kaguya to mutate back into Madara or something?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 11:20, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
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:::That Kaguya would relinquish control, no. That it would be feasible, yes. We've seen the other tailed beasts coming back into existence after they were merged into the Shinju, this isn't much different. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 11:46, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
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::::They actually weren't merged, they were simply inside the statue. Madara isn't deceased only if his consciousness is still there somewhere and his soul hasn't gone to the pure world. Although I don't see how could that be, considering he was torn apart--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:04, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::Seriously, how are people seeing him exploding and what not? When he reached critical mass and was completely covered by BZ, he clearly began shrinking back down, taking Kaguya's form. There was no tearing apart, no explosion. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 12:06, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
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::::::I meant those tumor-like blobs.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:13, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
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Abnormal growth, sign of instability, same thing happened to Obito before he got a firm grip on Shinju's power. Shrank down once it got stable, same here, just with the other side winning. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 12:16, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::::Right now, Incapacitated. No real way to know if he's a corpse or not which I doubt he is considering Kaguya just used his body to to become herself. Basically as long as Kaguya is alive, so is Madara, if only on a very technical sense.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 13:25, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
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The Truth Seeking Balls he placed on Hashirama and Minato disintegrated. Doesn't that indicate Madara's demise? [[User:Yatanogarasu|Yatanogarasu]] ([[User_talk:Yatanogarasu|Talk]]) 01:42, June 12, 2014 (UTC)
   
Can I please add that it never said the old guy with the sharingan madara? For all we know it could be a random old uchiha who introduced him to madara for all we know...
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It indicates Madara lost control over those items, just like how he lost control and was overtaken by Kaguya. [[User:WindStar7125|<font color="blue">'''''WindStar7125'''''</font>]] [[User talk:Windstar7125|<sub>(Talk)</sub>]][[User:WindStar7125|WindStar7125]] ([[User talk:WindStar7125|talk]]) 00:50, June 13, 2014 (UTC)
Speculation...
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: I think it indicates that he is indeed dead. His chakra can't maintain them anymore and if someone's chakra disappears, that means they're dead.--[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 01:54, June 13, 2014 (UTC)
[[Special:Contributions/166.147.89.161|166.147.89.161]] ([[User talk:166.147.89.161|talk]]) 03:56, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
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::Agreed. I think the presumed deceased tag is deserved in this instance. [[User:MangekyoSasuke|MangekyoSasuke]] ([[User talk:MangekyoSasuke|talk]]) 02:07, June 13, 2014 (UTC)
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::: Madara's chakra is gone and the remnants of his presence (his rods and TSB) have disintegrated. I agree. Presumed deceased should be the label used. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 06:20, June 13, 2014 (UTC)
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:::: He might be deader than dead too since his soul is presumably consumed or destroyed by Kaguya's takeover, thus his weapons disintegrating.--[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 02:10, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
   
-_- it looks exactly like Madara but old so there is no way it is anybody else... and Elveonora is right from what I see. [[Special:Contributions/173.66.119.89|173.66.119.89]] ([[User talk:173.66.119.89|talk]]) 09:41, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
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:::: It is possible that Madara has died, but it is still too early to say for sure, which is why "presumed deceased" is what should be used. The specifics of what exactly happened to Madara hasn't even been confirmed yet. All we have is speculation. Do you honestly think Madara would be killed off in a snap, without any actual closure? The fact that Black Zetsu rewrote the Uchiha stone tablet into saying the things that drove Madara over the edge even makes it possible that he might return to redeem himself. Madara's fate isn't clear, which is why we can only ''presume'' he's dead. [[User:Hot Cakes|Hot Cakes]] ([[User talk:Hot Cakes|talk]]) 21:44, June 24, 2014 (UTC)
   
People ****ing need to learn some reading comprehension or/and check their eyes, ur like 100th person with "who was that old guy?" doubt and question. It looks like old Madara, and the flashback happened after Kakashi asked Obito why did he join him.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:40, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
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== Absorption Soul User ==
   
:There is no need to go off on people like that. Not everyone will be as quick on the uptake as you are. When I first saw the face, for a moment I thought Nagato was back... People will get things wrong sometimes--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 15:57, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
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Madara should be a user of the Absorption Soul Jutsu. Obito said he could use the human path to extract information and since Obito learned the Six Path Jutsu from Madara, that means Madara can use the Absorption Soul jutsu. Also Obito can perform Izanagi since he learned Uchiha forbidden techniques from Madara therefore making a Madara a user of the Izanagi. Same idea should apply to Madara also being a user of the Absorption Soul jutsu.--[[User:Rinneganmaster|Rinneganmaster]] ([[User talk:Rinneganmaster|talk]]) 19:42, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
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:That's why he has each Path technique listed, as in Animal Path, Deva Path, etc. This is a case where we don't have it as clearly defined as Deva Path and each individual technique. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 21:36, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
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Obito can use the Absorption Soul Jutsu no doubt about that. My point is that Madara should be able to use Absorption Soul Jutsu since Obito learned all of his rinnegan jutsu from Madara. --[[User:Rinneganmaster|Rinneganmaster]] ([[User talk:Rinneganmaster|talk]]) 05:36, June 5, 2014 (UTC)
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::Madara taught Obito Six Paths Technique. Omni's point is that a single Path (besides Deva and Outer which are known to have more) may have more than just one technique--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 11:04, June 5, 2014 (UTC)
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Okay that is reasonable.--[[User:Rinneganmaster|Rinneganmaster]] ([[User talk:Rinneganmaster|talk]]) 21:08, June 5, 2014 (UTC)
   
Yes, of course not everyone is a fast-thinker ... but when dozens of people don't get it, there's something wrong. I have seen people stating absurdities about things in a chapter that weren't even there, like slime coming from Obito's arm, while that was a piece of clothing etc. Since the flashback was in response to a question about Madara, the old dude there was obviously him.
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== Page Images Vandalism ==
And lol Cerez, since when was Nagato '''that old back then''' and with a Sharingan? :)
 
They just look very alike (in before adopted son/clone theories)--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:00, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
Guys, back on topic. I will try to explain my reasoning. This is all based on facts, there's little if any speculation involved.
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There are two images that were vandalized, in Personality section. One depicts the Flash, and the other... reminds me some achievement.--[[User:VolteMetalic|VolteMetalic]] ([[User talk:VolteMetalic|talk]]) 10:20, June 9, 2014 (UTC)
Kabuto said that Madara has been restored beyond his prime. "Prime" can be considered as the pinnacle of power as well as young age. Let's look at what Madara had in life.
 
   
[+] - he had it [-] - he lacked it
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:Okay, I found some more. But they seem to be only when visually looking. When you click on it, it is correct. Hmm... odd.--[[User:VolteMetalic|VolteMetalic]] ([[User talk:VolteMetalic|talk]]) 10:24, June 9, 2014 (UTC)
   
Prime Madara:
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==Strongest Uchiha?==
[+] EMS
 
[+] Young Age
 
[-] Hashirama Tissue/Wood Release
 
[-] Rinnegan
 
   
Older Madara
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Now that Sasuke has attained the power of the Six Paths and overwhelmed Madara multiple times, should Madara still be listed as the strongest uchiha?--[[User:ElvinWindSword|ElvinWindSword]] ([[User talk:ElvinWindSword|talk]]) 23:19, June 12, 2014 (UTC)
[+] EMS
 
[+] Hashirama Tissue/Wood Release
 
[+] Rinnegan - progressed from EMS in conjunction with Senju DNA
 
   
Super Old Madara
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Interested in knowing also. Bump [[User:SusanooUnleashed|SusanooUnleashed]] ([[User talk:SusanooUnleashed|talk]]) 14:17, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
[-] Rinnegan - he gave it away to Nagato
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:Madara is still stronger.
[-] Young Age
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* more experience
[+] Hashirama Tissue/Wood Release - actually he'd probably been experimenting with that shit ever since the battle at VotE. He already had the flower tree grown etc.
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* YYR
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* 3 Rinnegan
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* Wood Release
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* Shinju's jinchuuriki
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While Sasuke is still young, has only Yin Release, 1 Rinnegan, (until confirmed otherwise) has no Wood Release and isn't a jinchuuriki. Am I missing something? Also it isn't our job to decide anyway, but the author's.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 14:38, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
   
Now what Kabuto meant by enhancing Madara is the following:
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Not to mentioned Sasuke was never shown overwhelming Madara anyway. Madara both let him cut him in half and rendered everything Sasuke and Naruto threw at him in the end futile. ([[User:The Fox King|The Fox King]] [[User talk:The Fox King|(talk)]] 23:37, July 16, 2014 (UTC))
1) he resurrected him in his prime, age-wise, (normal Edo would have revived him an old man), while at the same time having access to powers he unlocked way later in life, i.e. past his prime. Like the Wood Release he got only after VotE and working with Hashirama tissue.
 
2) he resurrected him with his peak abilities intact, that is assuming that Hashirama really did fuck him up after the battle at VotE. And I think he really did, if he hadn't, then why didn't Madara start wreaking havoc again right after he healed up? He probably really did become the shell of his former self, and normal Edo Tensei would have revived him as such. I admit that this point is speculative, though, so it can be skipped.
 
3) he resurrected him with his original pair of eyes (that is the Rinnegan), even though Madara lacked these eyes at the time of his death. Normal Edo would have resurrected him with that single little left Sharingan replacement instead.
 
   
That's what Kabuto meant by saying Madara was completed beyond his prime. He indeed was - he was young and yet possessed abilities he never had in his youth (not until after the VotE battle, at least). that's why he was "enhanced beyond his prime". '''It's erroneous, though, to think that Kabuto created any of these abilities, as Madara did it himself. He even said so.''' Kabuto merely took them all and put them in the right place - that is, the young body of Madara.
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== Deceased? ==
   
Edo Madara:
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It's incredibly premature to list him as such since we know nothing about what happened to him. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 06:56, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
[+] Young Age
 
[+] EMS
 
[+] Hashirama Tissue/Wood Release
 
[+] Rinnegan
 
   
Not to mention the Edo Tensei perks. Now compare this to Prime Madara and see why this one's better. [[User:Xfing|Xfing]] ([[User talk:Xfing|talk]]) 15:59, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
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I wouldn't say that. Remember when Kakashi died and his chakra completely vanished? Since Madara's chakra and anything related to it is gone, I'd say it's accurate to say that he's dead.--[[User:Hockey Machete|Hockey Machete]] ([[User talk:Hockey Machete|talk]]) 07:14, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
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:Death isn't the only thing that can make someone's chakra "vanish". When Sasuke hid inside Manda and unsummoned him his chakra was said to vanish. The fact that someone's chakra can no longer be sensed is not always a definitive indication as to their status.--[[User:Soul reaper|Soul reaper]] ([[User talk:Soul reaper|talk]]) 15:39, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Susanoo ? ==
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==Appearance of Mangekyou==
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Is there a need to describe what his Mangekyou looks like in the abilities section? Shouldn't that be placed into the appearance section, or the Mangekyou Sharingan page? [[User:Demonic Phoenix|D.Phoenix]] ([[User talk:Demonic Phoenix|talk]]) 05:47, June 18, 2014 (UTC)
   
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/File:Madara%27s_chakra_and_gunbai.jpg
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== Susanoo clad Kurama anime picture? ==
is that some kind of susanoo ? or just his chakra being chanelled through the gunbai and shaped into a wall against the outer path's spears ?--[[Special:Contributions/201.1.21.80|201.1.21.80]] ([[User talk:201.1.21.80|talk]]) 11:18, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
:Going with the former.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 11:19, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
:: Gonna have to disagree there. The chakra begins being channeled immediately when Madara grabs his gunbai. In the next panel, when the shield actually appears, he is see holding his gunbai in a defensive position, whereas when he received it, he was just holding out beside him. There is some significance with that. Furthermore, in the panels following that one, when the barrier flares up, its just that, a barrier. There are no bones and none of the typical formations of Susanoo. Thirdly, Susanoo has never been formed into a wall before. We have seen Madara extensively use his Susanoo in earlier battles and have seen both Itachi and Sasuke make liberal use of their Susanoo, and in none of its three incarnations has it shown to be A) just chakra manifesting without any skeletal structure and B) forming into a wall-like structure. This is obviously coming from the gunbai and is some kind of barrier technique. I doubt it is the [[Uchiha Flame Battle Encampment]], but it is clear that it is coming from the gunbai and that it is ''not'' Susanoo. I'll make a page for it, but if anyone disagrees with me, just have it deleted. The evidence is sufficient to suggest in favor of this argument though. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 03:55, September 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
: '''EDIT''': Not to mention, seen [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i25wt0DV5h0&feature=related here] the sheild Madara creates covers himself AND Obito as well as the aura around just their bodies. Susanoo only covers one person at a time. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 04:00, September 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
It looks like Susanoo. [[User:Arrancar79|Arrancar79]] ([[User talk:Arrancar79|talk]]) 04:46, September 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
:: Yes and the Uchiha Flame Battle Encampment looks like the [[Four Violet Flames Battle Encampment]]. The point is, numerous techniques are virtual look alikes in terms of how they are colored and appeared, but just because an attack is colored like Susanoo doesn't make it Susanoo. Like I said, there are no bones, there is no nothing that would indicate Susanoo. Nothing at all. Not even a small fragment. Even the way it used is fundamentally different from Susanoo. In all instances of Susanoo being used for defense, the user ''at least'' manifests the ribcage. Using a ''wall'' has never happened. Nor has a Susanoo ever covered two people at once in its aura in just its initial state (or any stage for that matter, while all three panels clearly show it covering both Obito and Madara. That alone is enough evidence it isn't Susanoo. Furthermore, the chakra is literally shown covering just the gunbai the page ''after'' the barrier is used. The gunbai was placed in a defensive position before the barrier manifested. The gunbai is clearly the source of the barrier. Not Madara. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 04:58, September 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
== Wind nature or Return of Uchiha? ==
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Is the anime picture of Madara's final [[Susanoo]]-clad [[Kurama]] worth adding? If so? Can somebody please do so?--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 21:12, June 19, 2014 (UTC)
As we never saw what Madara did in the AMV from the game exactly, would it be less speculative to think it was RoU or was the anime only wind nature from something else I missed? [[User:Arrancar79|Arrancar79]] ([[User talk:Arrancar79|talk]]) 04:19, September 14, 2012 (UTC)
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:Not enough space. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 23:16, June 19, 2014 (UTC)
: Personally, I have the game and have seen the cut scene for myself, and its pretty obvious what happened. There's a gust of wind knocking back a large amount of ninja, followed by the scene cutting to Madara with his gunbai. Though he is not seen in the action of swinging the fan, you have to use common sense here to deduce who is using it. So yes, his usage of the fan to produce wind gusts in the OVA is considered anime usage. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 05:03, September 14, 2012 (UTC)
 
::: I have the game myself and have watched the scene many times. I wasn't questioning who used it but questioning what happened. He was attacked then we see his attackers blown back accompanied by a disturbance of the air and flattened grass. It was not much of a stretch then to guess what happened but knowing what we know now I believe it is more responsible to attribute it to a use of Return of Uchiha. Unless RoU is stated to have a Wind nature it should be removed till he's seen using a Wind jutsu IMO. [[User:Arrancar79|Arrancar79]] ([[User talk:Arrancar79|talk]]) 23:40, September 14, 2012 (UTC)
 
::::I've seen the video of those scenes at youtube, and it was pretty clear for me that he made a gust of wind with his gunbai, the likes of which only makes sense through the use of Wind Release. I wouldn't say Uchiha Return is a Wind Release, but it should still be there as long as those scenes are considered anime. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 23:53, September 14, 2012 (UTC)
 
:::I have to disagree. It's speculative to continue citing Madara as having a Chakra nature based on so little. He's never used a wind technique and we now see he has the ability to redirect force/jutsu with his war fan. [[User:Arrancar79|Arrancar79]] ([[User talk:Arrancar79|talk]]) 00:15, September 15, 2012 (UTC)
 
::::What are you suggesting them? To consider the thing he did in the ova as Uchiha Return? It didn't seem like a defensive move to me, it seemed quite offensive. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 00:57, September 15, 2012 (UTC)
 
:::Yes that's what I'm suggesting. I don't see a difference in how he used it against Naruto rushing him and the group be knocked away. [[User:Arrancar79|Arrancar79]] ([[User talk:Arrancar79|talk]]) 02:11, September 15, 2012 (UTC)
 
::::Against Naruto, he turned the force of his own attack against him. I don't recall any attack being directed at Madara for him to reflect at any opponent, there might have been some shinobing running towards him, but it was Madara who made the first attack. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 02:18, September 15, 2012 (UTC)
 
:::They were both attacking. He swung his fan as they lept at him. Return of Uchiha is a reasonable explanation for what happened, more so than than to attribute a new elemental nature to him and an un-named wind technique IMO. [[User:Arrancar79|Arrancar79]] ([[User talk:Arrancar79|talk]]) 02:43, September 15, 2012 (UTC)
 
::::Just watched the video at youtube again. I guess it could be Uchiha Return, but I find it very odd that the force of reflecting taijutsu and maybe a few blades would cause so much of the vegetation at his feet to bend. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 02:54, September 15, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
Sorry didn't see this when I reverted. I don't believe that the techniques I saw in the ova fight and the one in the manga are the same. They're repelling entirely different things and I'd feel much more comfortable listing him as having Wind Release as opposed to saying it was this technique. [[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 12:30, September 15, 2012 (UTC)
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Maybe by removing repetitive lines, maybe that can free up some space to add the picture, and have those removed lines added to the [[Mangekyō Sharingan]] overview and info? Maybe? Maybe not?--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 23:40, June 19, 2014 (UTC)
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:That's very rich coming from you, your Madara edits are the most repetitive and over-bloating there are. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 01:35, June 20, 2014 (UTC)
   
I'm for the Wind Release being kept (there's anime only for a purpose so people know it's not canon) because by your suggestion, it would be much more confusing and shitting on canon as at the time the scene was animated, Return of the Uchiha wasn't yet revealed in the manga so the animators had no idea such things exists--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:39, September 15, 2012 (UTC)
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It was just a simple request is that so difficult, really?--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 06:16, June 20, 2014 (UTC)
:I can accept the wind nature but it wouldn't be the first thing to show up in Anime first and then manga. If I remember right, Kishi was involved in those scenes as well but maybe not, either way I digress. :) [[User:Arrancar79|Arrancar79]] ([[User talk:Arrancar79|talk]]) 09:07, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
 
::Kishimoto was not involved in those scenes, any at all. If what was done in the OVA and the manga are supposed to be the same, then that would mean that all those people Madara blew away jumped on his gunbai and all those weapons did so as well. I was thinking about it and Madara waited for Naruto to <u>make contact</u> with the gunbai before using the technique instead of just blowing him out of the air. Which is why I doubt those two instances are the same.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 10:04, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
== Picture ==
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== Tailed Beast Control to jutsu list? ==
   
I know this was discussed before, but this really bugs me. Isn't there an adequate and "colored" (the current one is colored but is b&W) picture to put in the infobox?--[[User:Holyn|Holyn]] ([[User talk:Holyn|talk]]) 18:08, September 15, 2012 (UTC)
 
:There is not. At least not to my knowledge.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 10:07, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
== Abilities contradiction ==
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Is it worth adding the technique [[Tailed Beast Control]] to Madara's jutsu list, since it is mentioned under his abilities?--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 02:48, June 21, 2014 (UTC)
  +
:That's just [[Genjutsu: Sharingan]]--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 11:35, June 21, 2014 (UTC)
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::Further, Tailed Beast Control isn't so much a technique, but a...type of skill. Like being able to throw a kunai, if you will.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 11:42, June 21, 2014 (UTC)
   
I noticed a contradiction in the Abilities section. There is on part that says "After activating his Rinnegan and using it in conjunction with his Susanoo", yet in the Rinnegan heading it states "However, it sould be noted that while using the powers granted by one dōjustu he cannot simultaneously access those granted by another." So can he use both the Rinnegan and Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan at the same time or no? {{unsigned|67.233.155.40}}
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== I guess he is dead ==
   
the latter line is 100% speculative and should be removed... he uses Susanoo with Rinnegan all the time, and it's logical that in order to use Rinnegan powers, he has to activate it, just like a Sharingan can't use MS powers--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 18:46, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
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If Naruto and Sasuke are going to seal Kaguya then there's no chance of Madara returning to the series. Does that give us grounds to list him as deceased? --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 22:31, June 21, 2014 (UTC)
   
Doesn't change the fact that after having the Rinnegan activated, he had to switch to EMS to cast genjutsu at the Raikage. At least some abilities are restrained to each dōjutsu. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 19:06, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
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As of now, they're only ''planning'' to seal Kaguya away. They haven't done it yet. Madara's fate is still unknown, which is why "''presumed'' deceased" is what should be used.[[User:Hot Cakes|Hot Cakes]] ([[User talk:Hot Cakes|talk]]) 21:46, June 24, 2014 (UTC)
   
Alrighty that clears things up a little [[User:Konoha&#39;sBlackXandXWhiteFlash|Konoha&#39;sBlackXandXWhiteFlash]] ([[User talk:Konoha&#39;sBlackXandXWhiteFlash|talk]]) 02:13, September 17, 2012 (UTC)
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== Infobox image ==
   
== Madara gave Nagato ==
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Which one do you prefer to be set in the infobox? The [[:File:Uchiha Madara.png|current one]] or the [[:File:Uchiha Madara Full.png|image]] that uploaded by M4ND0N‎? —[[User:Shakhmoot|<font color="blue">'''Shakhmoot'''</font>]] [[File:Nadeshiko Village Symbol.svg|20px]] [[User talk:Shakhmoot|<sub>(Talk)</sub>]] 23:09, June 21, 2014 (UTC)
   
Madara gave Nagato his eyes when Nagato was a kid... So Nagato Possess's the Sharingan and Eternal Mangekyo too. [[Special:Contributions/173.66.119.89|173.66.119.89]] ([[User talk:173.66.119.89|talk]]) 07:21, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
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I guess since it's clear where my position on this stands, I'll list my pros and cons.
:We don't know how it works. From everything we've seen, Nagato only has access to the Rinnegan.--[[Special:Contributions/210.56.81.34|210.56.81.34]] ([[User talk:210.56.81.34|talk]]) 09:33, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
::Agree with the former. At least wait for the rest of the story.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 09:52, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
Or he just never used it on panel... he probably used it to use genjutsu such as on those ame ninja he put extremely powerful genjutsu blocks in. we don't know either way. [[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] ([[User talk:ItachiWasAHero|talk]]) 10:22, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
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Pros:
:Things like ^that is exactly why we should wait. We don't have to be piecing anything together, Kishimoto is telling us the story, for now, we make mention what was said in the manga and leave it at that...--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 10:30, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
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- Frontal view
  +
- Natural color scheme of the armor [bright red, not darkened via Edo Tensei]
  +
- Image of Madara while he was alive and not an Edo Tensei
  +
Cons:
  +
- He's using Susanoo so the lighting's a little messed up.
   
Didn't Madara say he left his real eyes with someone else? When Obito was posing as him he told Konan "I gave Nagato the Rinnegan." That's evidence enough, IMO. And as for Nagato not possessing the Sharingan, Kakashi can't shut his Sharingan off because he's not an Uchiha, so it stands to reason Nagato can't shut the Rinnegan off either. At least this chapter confirms Madara created Zetsu. [[Special:Contributions/207.216.193.120|207.216.193.120]] ([[User talk:207.216.193.120|talk]]) 12:29, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
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However in my defense of this, the Susanoo isn't as noticeable when viewed from afar in an infobox and it just makes him seem a little blue-ish, but we previously used one with a blue tint in the past as well. It's still in my opinion the best image of Madara currently available and it wouldn't be permanent, since there's certainty of a better one arising in the coming episodes. I guess it comes down to whether you'd want a non-Edo image now or wait for one without Susanoo to arise. I don't see a problem with using it now, however. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 00:28, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
  +
: Why change it now? We have at least two to three flashback episodes that will have a plethora of images showing him alive, in the daylight, and in his prime. Why settle for something that is inherently flawed (no offense Mandon, its just that the Susanoo ''does'' effect the quality of the image) when we could literally wait a week or two at most and take our pick of the litter? ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Sasuke's Rinnegan (Purple).svg|20px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 00:36, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
   
why, any user can't wait for a few more weeks to get more Information? --[[User:MaskedManMadara|MaskedManMadara]] ([[User talk:MaskedManMadara|talk]]) 16:51, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
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: I agree with Ten Tailed - wait to change it. The current one can last a couple of more weeks. --[[User:Kasan94|<font color="#3B0B0B">'''Kasan94'''</font>]] [[File:Nara Symbol.svg|20px]] <sub>[[User_talk:Kasan94|''Talkpage'']]</sub> 01:19, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Loss of power ==
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Isn't it official now that Hashirama is talking about reviving Madara that he is dead?--[[User:ElvinWindSword|ElvinWindSword]] ([[User talk:ElvinWindSword|talk]]) 19:43, July 3, 2014 (UTC)
   
What proof has their been that Madara had lost any of his powers in his old age. Chapter 602 points more to not being able to use them due to not having two Sharingan and because of dwindled chakra reserves rather than actually having lost them. What Tobi has never been proven. It was just his statement and was probably something he said to make his story about being Madara and resorting to that method sound believable. But there has never been any proof backing him up. The Fox King([[User:The Fox King|tylerbryant547@gmail.com]] ([[User talk:The Fox King|talk]]) 17:50, September 19, 2012 (UTC))
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They think he is dead. They still don't know for sure. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 20:58, July 3, 2014 (UTC)
:That statement was already changed...--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]]18:01, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
Yes, I just saw. Sorry. The Fox King([[User:The Fox King|tylerbryant547@gmail.com]] ([[User talk:The Fox King|talk]]) 18:08, September 19, 2012 (UTC))
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=== And again ===
  +
Which one do you prefer to be set in the infobox? The [[:File:Uchiha Madara.png|current one]] or the [[:File:Uchiha Madara alive.png|image]] that uploaded by M4ND0N‎? —[[User:Shakhmoot|<font color="blue">'''Shakhmoot'''</font>]] [[File:Nadeshiko Village Symbol.svg|20px]] [[User talk:Shakhmoot|<sub>(Talk)</sub>]] 21:00, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
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:The current one. The image doesn't need changed at all. Nothing wrong with it at all. --[[User:SuperSajuuk|SuperSajuuk]] <sup><small>[[User talk:SuperSajuuk|Talk Page]] | [[User:SuperSajuuk/Images|My Image Uploads]] | [[User:SuperSajuuk/Tabber Code|Tabber Code]] | [http://youtube.com/LPSajuuk Channel]</small></sup> 21:05, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
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::The badass one--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:10, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
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::: I would still say the current one, out of those two --[[User:Kasan94|<font color="#3B0B0B">'''Kasan94'''</font>]] [[File:Nara Symbol.svg|20px]] <sub>[[User_talk:Kasan94|''Talkpage'']]</sub> 21:11, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
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::::The current one, because it's the most iconic look of him (red armor included)--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 21:23, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
  +
Of course it needs to be changed, Sajuuk. The current image never should have been used to begin with. We only chose it because we assumed at the end of chapter 656 that that it was an accurate depiction of how Madara would look after being resurrected, since his eyes hadn't disintegrated yet. We don't use reanimation images if an acceptable '''living''' image of the character is available.. I'm pretty sure that precedent was established long ago, and this image was the only one to break it. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 22:39, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
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:Mandon, from the preview of the next episode, I find the smiled Madara's screenshot is very good one to be set in the infobox. But as TU3-sama said that the red armor is the symbol of this character. I think it's better to keep it, let's wait for the next episode to see that. —[[User:Shakhmoot|<font color="blue">'''Shakhmoot'''</font>]] [[File:Nadeshiko Village Symbol.svg|20px]] [[User talk:Shakhmoot|<sub>(Talk)</sub>]] 22:54, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
  +
He doesn't have his armor in that one either. Plus there's no guarantee we will get a suitable image of him in his armor during this flashback.. what then? I don't think it's appropriate to keep an Edo Tensei image when there's plenty of viable images of him while he's alive. I guess we'll cross that road when we come to it. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 02:51, July 11, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Nagato ==
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hows [[:File:Madzprofile.png|this]]? yes theres some Susanoo shit, but its still mostly a good color not being obscured and in perfect profile , and in his famous armor.--[[User:RexGodwin|RexGodwin]] ([[User talk:RexGodwin|talk]]) 06:17, July 21, 2014 (UTC)
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: I don't really like it, because of that Susanoo stuff. --[[User:Kasan94|<font color="#3B0B0B">'''Kasan94'''</font>]] [[File:Nara Symbol.svg|20px]] <sub>[[User_talk:Kasan94|''Talkpage'']]</sub> 08:18, July 21, 2014 (UTC)
   
Madara said he entrusted his eyes to someone else!!!!!!! Could it be nagato? I mean, it's all there. He said he awakened his Rinnegan shortly before his death, and gave it to nagato. Someone please comment, or at least say it's likely.--[[Special:Contributions/24.166.174.117|24.166.174.117]] ([[User talk:24.166.174.117|talk]]) 20:24, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
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Let's just wait till he's resurrected in the anime. As much as I hate the current image, I can't find a suitable image in the flashback and believe me, I was thorough in searching for one. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 19:33, July 24, 2014 (UTC)
: [[#Madara gave Nagato]]. --[[User:Aged Goblin|<font size="4"><span style='color: Goblin'><font face="Old English Text MT">'''''The Goblin'''''</font></span></font>]] 20:30, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
== Gedo Mazo life support system beginning ==
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there wont be a better one of him being revived.. he immediately loses both eyes and loses his armor after. quite the contrary, theres a few good shots in this episode:
  +
[[File:MadaraProD.png|thumb|Option A]]
  +
[[File:MadaraProC.png|thumb|Option B]]
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[[File:MadaraProB.png|thumb|Option C]]
  +
[[File:MadaraProA.png|thumb|Option D]]
  +
[[File:MadaraProposal E.jpeg|thumb|Option E]]
   
Why should we say in Madara's article that he was on the Gedo Mazo from the time he sustained the injuries in the last fight with Hashirama until he died when he himself has not said he was and we don't know that he was? The Fox King([[User:The Fox King|tylerbryant547@gmail.com]] ([[User talk:The Fox King|talk]]) 22:46, September 20, 2012 (UTC))
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--[[User:RexGodwin|RexGodwin]] ([[User talk:RexGodwin|talk]]) 22:54, July 24, 2014 (UTC)
:The "Mazou" that he mentions isn't the Gedo Mazo, but [[Hashirama's Living Clone]] and that term (mazou) means statue --[[User:MaskedManMadara|MaskedManMadara]] ([[User talk:MaskedManMadara|talk]]) 18:25, September 21, 2012 (UTC)
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: I'm okay with both B and D, with a preference for B. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Sasuke's Rinnegan (Purple).svg|20px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 23:19, July 24, 2014 (UTC)
::The Mazō is there in the image of him announcing himself to Obito. You have to strain your eyes because of the scans but the statue is there sitting in the yet-to-be fully-opened flower. If Madara had meant Hashirama's Living Clone he would have referred to it as what he did when he told Obito that he had used it to reconstruct his body; that clone isn't a statue.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 18:31, September 21, 2012 (UTC)
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::C or D for me. --[[User:KirinNOTKarin98|KirinNOTKarin98]] ([[User talk:KirinNOTKarin98|talk]]) 02:16, July 25, 2014 (UTC)
:::oh, yeah? I don't know it, I think it to be a statue O_O. but thanks Cerez365, is more things that I know now. [[User:MaskedManMadara|MaskedManMadara]] ([[User talk:MaskedManMadara|talk]]) 18:48, September 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
Why does it say that his injuries from his last fight with Hashirama caused him to have to be on the statue from that point till death when that can't be? He'd need the Rinnegan, which he didn't have then, to summon it and make use of that chakra and he himself didn't say he had been on the Mazo since that last fight. Why should the article say that as though it were a fact that he was? The Fox King([[User:The Fox King|tylerbryant547@gmail.com]] ([[User talk:The Fox King|talk]]) 23:32, September 21, 2012 (UTC))
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So in the absence of a decent image of Madara in his armor, I feel it's worth putting this one up as option E. It was the original image we used before we started waiting for a better photo from a flashback and quite frankly, I think it's fine, aside from the gray scale, it represents Madara's character much better than any of the proposed images, depicting him with his armor and gunbai, which is something no other photo can do. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 03:37, July 25, 2014 (UTC)
  +
: I am absolutely against that. Your option is in terrible quality, greyscale, and only represents Madara as he was seen earlier in the series. Not once since he became prominent, was he ever depicted with a headband on his forehead, for one. You simply don't see an image ''you'' like, but that doesn't mean that there wasn't a decent choice from the recent episodes, and options A through D are proof of that. That being said, Option C is probably our best choice. He's facing the "camera", if you will, it shows Madara's typical demeanor, and without any dōjutsu in his eyes. He is wearing his trademark Uchiha robes (he doesn't have the armor, but I really don't care about that) and, better yet, he's alive. I say change it to Option C and leave it that way. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Sasuke's Rinnegan (Purple).svg|20px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 05:03, July 25, 2014 (UTC)
   
That's a speculation and should be removed... not to mention that would make it more than 40 years he was trapped underground.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:48, September 21, 2012 (UTC)
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I wasn't weighing these options based off whether I like an image or not. The artwork and animation for this episode was quite terrible, so yeah, I don't think any of the proposed are particularly suitable.
   
  +
Additionally, your argument is extremely flawed. Not once was Madara depicted with a headband before he became a prominent character? Try 124 chapters ago when he appeared in Onoki's flashback. Bad argument is bad. The greyscale point of course, still stands, but it still represents his character better than any of the proposed images. Before Madara was even '''named''' let alone established as a major character, this is how he appeared, armor and all. His gunbai and clothing are part of his iconic appearance, so they are important.
   
He could'nt have been on the mazou life support (oh i love to say that) from Hashirama's victory t'ill Obito wound up in his underground passageway. Because he would have needed to give that "person" (most likely Nagato) his eyes (most likely the rinnegan), and he was alive for decades and decades after his suppossed defeat, so i'd think that he was incredibley old by that point.[[Special:Contributions/98.26.240.62|98.26.240.62]] ([[User talk:98.26.240.62|talk]]) 00:02, September 22, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan
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However, with that being said Kishimoto changed the color of his gunbai so you could say my proposed image boasts a non-canon color scheme, but the gray scale fixes that problem. Regardless if that's a dealbreaker then I support option B for the slightly more refined artwork. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 06:07, July 25, 2014 (UTC)
   
No man. Madara walked away from the fight and then lived a healthy and happy life. Sewed some wild oats (hence we have Nagato and Rasputia Uchiha) and then contracted cancer in his old age. What we saw there was just chemotherapy with primitive machinery... That's definitely what happened.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 11:50, September 22, 2012 (UTC)
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I Support C and D. C have a better angle at him, while D have better light. --[[User:Kasan94|<font color="#3B0B0B">'''Kasan94'''</font>]] [[File:Nara Symbol.svg|20px]] <sub>[[User_talk:Kasan94|''Talkpage'']]</sub> 08:09, July 25, 2014 (UTC)
   
Why that sarcasm? Read above, in the case he was there since Hashirama "defeat" that would make it more than 40 years, not to mention he likely met Yahiko and Nagato.... hard to believe their meeting was underground--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:31, September 22, 2012 (UTC)
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Not sure what episode you saw, but the animation was just fine. Besides that depiction of Madara is very off how he normally looks in this day and age; just look at his hair then. And people need to stop obsessing over the red armor. -.- the focal point is his head/face so that is irrelevant. Plus that grey scale is awful. Maybe if it was properly colored but just no.--[[User:RexGodwin|RexGodwin]] ([[User talk:RexGodwin|talk]]) 08:55, July 25, 2014 (UTC)
   
:Because there's no other way to respond to this. Madara's article is being edited to say he went on live a long life, through three wars (because he participated in them ~_~) as if he got up from the fight with Hashirama and was fine and dandy, and then contracted a disease in his old age and had to go on life support which is rubbish. Tobi told us that the fight left him a shell of his former self not because he was making excuses for only using Kamui but because it did in fact leave him a shell; unless I'm reading another manga. I've said it before but nothing Tobi has said so far has been a lie. He's only ever omitted the truth. I understand that people love Madara but there's nothing to it but to accept the fact that Hashirama crippled him severely and he lived out the rest of his life in a hole.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 14:40, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
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Option C ([[User:Kuroiraikou|Kuroiraikou]] ([[User talk:Kuroiraikou|talk]]) 09:24, July 25, 2014 (UTC))
   
That's right, Obito never really lied. "I, Uchiha Madara" didn't have anything to do with Kurama attacking Konoha ;)
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:Not sure why changing the image is so important, as I've stated before we got incredibly lucky to get a good shot of him, armor and all and not looking like a reanimated corpse. I see no reason to switch to a less iconic picture just to have a picture of him not dead. Going through so many loops just to change the image just seems like a waste of time and energy. As such, I abstain from picking. Have fun.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 09:26, July 25, 2014 (UTC)
Now you mention it, it's a possibility... could explain that "hell" and "ghost of Uchiha Madara" parts. He "lived" there since then and considered himself as dead.
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::I honestly think the current one is fine. Yes, it's an image of him as an edo tensei, but none of the telltale cracks are there. He looks exactly as he did in life. My only problem is the lighting but in a case such as this I don't think it's too much of a deal breaker. That said, if it has to be changed I'd go with Option C. Good framing, good expression, good art. D has better lighting but it's not a great shot and something about it just makes him look younger.--[[User:Soul reaper|Soul reaper]] ([[User talk:Soul reaper|talk]]) 09:37, July 25, 2014 (UTC)
Poor Madara 0_0--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:09, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
The Fading into obscurity thing I put in there is there to say that he was never seen or heard from again. What I wrote is there to say he lived through them, not that he fought them. He did get stronger, shown in everything he has now for the sake of his Eye of the Moon plan. The reason he was on the Gedo when he was old isn't known. Could have been because he was too old and needed it, even with Hashirama's cells. He was was over 100 The Fox King([[User:The Fox King|tylerbryant547@gmail.com]] ([[User talk:The Fox King|talk]]) 15:13, September 23, 2012 (UTC))
 
 
:<sup>'''''editconflict'''''</sup> If people consider Obito calling himself Madara simply a "lie" then they are reading the story too one dimensionally. I don't understand how people can think that someone could walk out of a fight unscathed in a battle that essentially created an entire valley and another nation.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 15:20, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Not to mention we saw him pierced by a sword, and Hashirama barely survived with his "self-healing no jutsu" looked at it through Cerez's way, makes more sense (even if cruel, but this manga isn't about ponies) than him surviving, living happily after, manipulating from shadows for so long and then getting crippled--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:28, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Nobody is saying he got out of the fight unscathed, just that it was never really proven that he was just a shell of his former self. His injuries and all were severe yes, but with the way he could treat Obito's wounds and save him with Hashirama's cells, is it really reasonable to think that he couldn't do the same to himself? Not to mention, he was nowhere near where he was when he was on the Gedo when he last fought Hashirama and lost. He may have been wounded terribly, but he got stronger. No one is saying it was easy. It was probably very hard and took him a very long time. Think also about the fact that he had Hashirama's cells and that they, given Tsunade's testament to Tobi's possession of them, Madara might haven been able to extend his life by harvesting them and allowing him to train and learn how to use his Wood Release like he can. The reason he needed to go on the Gedo is unexplained. It may have been because of dwindled chakra reserves or some kind of genetic malfunction with Hashirama's DNA that was making him weaker rather than helping him maintain his training and preparation for future plans. To state something we don't know as a fact, such as being a shell of his former self, and present it as a fact is speculation and unnecessary. The Fox King([[User:The Fox King|tylerbryant547@gmail.com]] ([[User talk:The Fox King|talk]]) 15:38, September 23, 2012 (UTC))
 
 
:All of that however, is speculation based on things that was never seen. What we do know:
 
*Hashirama and Madara fought.
 
*Madara lost.
 
*Madara survived and became a shell of his former self.
 
*Madara used that battle to gather the Firsts' cells.
 
*Madara is attached to a giant statue covered in Zetsu's which were built with First cells.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 17:42, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Madara did not become a shell of his former self as far as fact goes. We don't know that he did. The Fox King([[User:The Fox King|tylerbryant547@gmail.com]] ([[User talk:The Fox King|talk]]) 19:35, September 23, 2012 (UTC))
 
 
But we work only with facts, we know these things:
 
* he got pierced by Hashirama's sword, and "died" not to mention he sure had many more wounds... how he survived is unknown now.
 
* became a shell of his former self
 
* gedo life support
 
There's no incident in between, so unless more information is provided, Hashi battle made him what he was in chapter 602
 
--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:52, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Thats no fact. He didn't become a shell of his former self. Tobi said that, not him and it stands to reason that since he is weaker than Madara, which he factually admitted, then he say something like that to get others to believe what he said about being Madara was true. He himself has not stated that or in any way implied it. He was no shell of his former self factually because he only got stronger after losing at the Valley of the End, not weaker. Everything else you said was true, but that wasn't. Be realistic. The Fox King([[User:The Fox King|tylerbryant547@gmail.com]] ([[User talk:The Fox King|talk]]) 21:39, September 23, 2012 (UTC))
 
 
Be realistic? This is a damn manga, you know right? You are speculating too much, your "sense and logic" aren't above information provided... you can't simply arrange it the way you want. What we know is listed, the end.
 
EDIT: Itachi said the same about shell thing, also how is being connected to a flower in order to survive considered as getting stronger?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:21, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
He wasn't connected to the Gedo for all those years after losing and Itachi, just like Nagato, knew Tobi and believed that he was Madara and Tobi is weaker than Madara. Hes admitted that. The reason he, not Madara, would probably have said such a thing was so others, like Itachi, Nagato, and the five Kage, would believe that thats who he was and why he would resort to a plan like that. Onoki questioned that himself. In everything that has been seen of Madara himself, nothing has said or shown that he became a shell of his former self after he lost that last battle with Hashirama. Thats a fact. I'm not speculating, you are. In all that we saw of Madara's past when Tobi was telling Sasuke about everything that happened with Madara, he did not mention, imply, or even contemplate to himself that Madara was just a shell of his former self. The fact that he made that statement to the five Kage without us seeing any proof it was true opens a possibility that what he said was just a lie to make his story sound believable. He spent all those decades training with the Wood Release and mastered it so powerfully. He was also able to awaken the Rinnegan. Whenever he did so, it was after that battle and therefore, he got stronger period after it. The Fox King([[User:The Fox King|tylerbryant547@gmail.com]] ([[User talk:The Fox King|talk]]) 22:50, September 23, 2012 (UTC))
 
 
:But here is the thing: Where do you assume this? Everything Tobi and Itachi has said about Madara was correct, based on what we have '''seen'''. You are just assuming he walked out of that battle and got god mode somehow. That is not how we were told, and not how we've seen.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 23:07, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Correction, we have not seen that Madara was just a shell of his former self after losing that last battle and only most of what Tobi and Itachi said was shown to be true. Not everything. Saying he was just a shell of his former self after that battle when it was never shown that he was was just words. Nothing backing it up. The only thing we have seen about him losing to Hashirama is that he was severely wounded, which doesn't prove that was a shell of what he was before losing that battle, only that he lost and survived it. Neither Itachi nor Tobi's statements about that have been proven true. Thats a fact. The Fox King([[User:The Fox King|tylerbryant547@gmail.com]] ([[User talk:The Fox King|talk]]) 23:30, September 23, 2012 (UTC))
 
 
It doesn't really make sense we argue out this point. It is true that we only know bits and pieces that have yet to be glued together of what happened after the battle at the valley of the end and Madara finding Obito, but I would however be really shocked if that battle and Madara's state aren't '''directly''' related. Any way, as long as the information remains how it is (or at least how I last remember it being) for now, it's enough for me.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 23:52, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
My point exactly Cerez. It has so far no been shown that he was a shell of his former self after losing that battle or that he was on that Mazo from the time he lost till he died. Next chapter may change some or all of that., but as it stands right now, none of that is fact. The Fox King([[User:The Fox King|tylerbryant547@gmail.com]] ([[User talk:The Fox King|talk]]) 00:11, September 24, 2012 (UTC))
 
 
== "awakened Rinnegan before death" ==
 
 
I'm pretty sure he wasn't referring to him dying after the 3rd SWW, but before being "killed" by Hashirama, as he considered himself to be dead afterwards.
 
He gave his eyes to Nagato decades before, and had only a spare ordinary Sharingan by the time he met Obito. Not to mention he wouldn't have such mastery over it if it was by his old age. Should be reworded in my opinion--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:25, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Madara came out and stated that he awakened it shortly before his death. Doubt that mean't decades and until he says what he meant about leaving his real eyes with someone else, we can only speculate that subject. The Fox King([[User:The Fox King|tylerbryant547@gmail.com]] ([[User talk:The Fox King|talk]]) 15:51, September 23, 2012 (UTC))
 
 
It is impossible, at this point in time, to determine which "death" Madara was referring to. However, implications seem to be hinting it was the former...the one at the Valley of the End. There are two things supporting this, one of which is evidence: firstly, we have to consider the fact that Madara, having just been resurrected by Edo Tensei, would have had no idea how much his summoner knew with regards to his life. Thus, he would attempt to disclose the least amount of information possible. An example of this is found in chapter 561, where Madara asks Kabuto how much he knows: during the entirety of his explanation, he remains silent. It's obvious he isn't intent on revealing anything about his life and death. So why ''wouldn't'' he make a vague statement that can be interpreted in one of two ways, especially given the fact that Kabuto knows more than the average individual (his extra knowledge would actually be a detriment in this situation, as it only confuses the situation further)? To the rest of the world, Madara died at Hashirama's hand over 60 years ago. Why not continue to uphold that falsity? It wouldn't be in Madara's best interests to reveal conflicting information.
 
 
Secondly, Madara clearly says in chapter 602 that he left his real eyes to someone else. That "someone else" is obviously Nagato, and it is evidence against Madara's statement being a reference to his true death. I will explain why: at this point, Nagato having the Rinnegan is due to one of two reasons: either Madara transplanted his Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan into Nagato, whose Uzumaki blood caused the eyes to progress to their final stage, or Madara directly gave Nagato the Rinnegan, already having completed the last step with Hashirama's Senju DNA. Based off these two scenarios, it would be impossible for Madara to have awakened the Rinnegan (possibly ''again'') before his real death because he would have needed a new EMS to get to that final stage. What are the odds of that happening? Infinitesimally low. Not just because of the difficulty of the procedure, but because Madara was missing a right eye in this latest chapter.
 
 
Now, you may be asking how Kabuto managed to modify Madara back to his prime form, with enhancements such as the Rinnegan, that he gave away years before dying (Edo Tensei supposedly works by resurrecting the person as they were moments before death): the truth is, I have no idea. There's obviously something bigger going on here. But at this stage in the game, it's not unlikely to think that Madara was talking about his "death" at VoTE, especially given his words this chapter: "ghost of the Uchiha."
 
[[Special:Contributions/68.119.138.242|68.119.138.242]] ([[User talk:68.119.138.242|talk]]) 19:09, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Not to mention that would make 2 pairs of Rinnegan eyes, obviously, besides Sage's, there has been only one other pair--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:20, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Thats what I said as far as his death goes, however, it has yet to be seen what he mean't and we can't be sure he mean't Nagato until chapter 603 is out. Only then can we know that as a fact. Also, just because he gave away his eyes, doesn't mean he lost the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan dojutsu, or the Rinnegan if he had awakened before giving his eyes away. Its a kekkei genkai. Its in his blood. His genetics and works through his eyes, not just within the eyes themselves. He also said he couldn't awaken the full potential of his eyes without two, which the full potential to him would be everything he achieved. Think about that. The Fox King([[User:The Fox King|tylerbryant547@gmail.com]] ([[User talk:The Fox King|talk]]) 21:46, September 23, 2012 (UTC))
 
 
I don't see a reason to doubt that... these are facts:
 
* Madara and Nagato knew each other
 
* Tobi claimed that "I Madara" did give Nagato the Rinnegan
 
* Madara assumes Nagato revived him with Rinne Tensei no jutsu
 
* Madara confirms he gave his eyes to someone
 
 
The way it's worded now sounds like he produced 2 pairs of Rinnegan eyes in his lifetime, should be changed to: "Shortly before being presumed to have been killed by Hashirama in their final confrontation at a place later to be known as Valley of The End, Madara awakened his Rinnegan"--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:19, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Indeed it should should it be revealed to have been that way in the next chapter when we hopefully find out for sure what he mean't. The Fox king([[User:The Fox King|tylerbryant547@gmail.com]] ([[User talk:The Fox King|talk]]) 22:41, September 23, 2012 (UTC))
 
 
== Second Rikudou ==
 
 
I thought it to be clear that Madara is such, not Obito.
 
Everything Tobi/Obito did say under "I, Madara" has been under this guy's name and were his actions/deeds.
 
Nagato's Rinnegan couldn't have given by Obito, clearly.
 
Also Madara did awake Rinnegan, not Obito, thus the title belong to him--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 04:33, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
:I think we're simply waiting for something more clear-cut than the "Tobi said it as Madara" bid.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 11:47, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
It's obviously obvious... doubting Obito's "Madara" statements is paranoid at this point.
 
* Obito wasn't alive when Nagato got Rinnegan
 
* Kabuto compared Madara's power to be a fragment of that of So6p
 
* Madara did awake the Rinnegan, making him "another Sage"
 
* There's no reason for Obito to be 2nd Rikudou, eye/name/title thief suits him better
 
* Same goes for Madara being the Akatsuki's creator, my topic got ignored completely
 
--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:04, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
I never said it was doubted, nor is anyone being paranoid. Just that the general consensus I got on this matter(s) is that we wait...--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 17:12, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
I think we've waited long enough, this latest chapter confirmed all the things tobi said he's done under Madara's name was done by Madara... no point in waiting any longer, we're not going to get much more than that.[[User:MangekyoSasuke|MangekyoSasuke]] ([[User talk:MangekyoSasuke|talk]]) 04:41, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== Izanagi and Yin-Yang Release. ==
 
 
As we saw as of chapter 606, it was indeed Madara who tutored Obito into all those powerful dojutsu such as Izanagi...now in regards to the Yin-Yang style, i'm in the wind in as to his application of it...namely the creation of Black Zetsu and his explanation to his creation of the chakra rods as an physical aplication of his ''will''. Now my question is...should be named as an Izanagi user and should his Yin-Yang use be stated? [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 12:04, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
 
:Another detail is the fact that Madara reffered to the various White Zetsu's as being created by the Yin-Yang powers...soo, any opinions? [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 12:53, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
He clearly could/can use Izanagi and taught Obito the technique--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 16:06, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
:Or he can use it in principle and taught it to Obito, in principle? Information about him using Yin Yang Release has been added to his article.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 16:08, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
He taught him Uchiha Kinjutsu, not to mention don't tell me Obito found out about Izanagi himself--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 16:13, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
 
:By principle to teach a technique in an efficient manner as seen with Obito, the teacher (Madara) should have first hand experience in using said technique. You can't teach a complex technique like that and not have mastered said technique. Besides Madara is known for his extensive knowledge and use of these complex techniques. Now what about his creation of Black Zetsu? Does that qualify as Yin-Yang as well? [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 16:27, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
The fact that him is listed as a Izanagi user is because of his genjutsu or because he says that he will teach Obito about the clan's kinjutsu? [[User:MaskedManMadara|MaskedManMadara]] ([[User talk:MaskedManMadara|talk]]) 18:42, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
 
:The second since there are only two Uchiha Kinjutsu and one was only created to neutralize the other and is pretty much useless on it's own and Obito only used Izanagi as off now [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 18:59, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Now, so that people won't say i got most of this stuff out of thin air, [[Talk:Dream World|here]]'s the translation which confirms that the Yin-Yang was also used to create the Zetsu clones. And since Madara is pretty much the only user at the time the Zetsu clones were first created that pretty much is worth a mention. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 19:42, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
What i don't get is, did he really have yin-yang thanks to dna or was it because of the [[sharingan]]?--[[User:Aeonophic|Aeonophic]] ([[User talk:Aeonophic|talk]]) 15:59, October 21, 2012 (UTC)Aeonophic
 
 
One doesn't need Sharingan to have either. Second Mizukage used Yin Release, Yin and Yang are the source of several non-elemental ninjutsu. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 16:14, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
If so, then why does [[Obito Uchiha]] have [[earth]] release and [[water]] release, but also has [[yin-yang release]]?--[[User:Aeonophic|Aeonophic]] ([[User talk:Aeonophic|talk]]) 19:09, October 21, 2012 (UTC)Aeonophic
 
 
* Because he used an Earth Release technique and Wood one as well, thus should be able to use Water in addition
 
* Used Izanagi and Madara taught him presumably others
 
* I don't get what ur asking... --[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:14, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== Adding a "Legacy" section ==
 
 
What do you think, guys? Perhaps we should add a "Legacy" section for Madara, for example because he's technically deceased and because he turned out to be the direct cause of everything that's going on now? [[User:Xfing|Xfing]] ([[User talk:Xfing|talk]]) 23:52, October 22, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
:Go ahead. He is dead, and if they influence crap after death then boom, section.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 00:02, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== New Technique ==
 
 
As it seen in the latest chapter, Madara used Yin-Yang Release to create Black Zetsu by transfering part of his will into a Zetsu clone. Now i'm wondering if by what was shown, warrants the creation of a jutsu article based on what shown and stated. Any opinions/ideas? [[Special:Contributions/2.80.100.41|2.80.100.41]] ([[User talk:2.80.100.41|talk]]) 20:53, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
"creation of all things" even if speculative, makes sense... I think that's also exactly how the Meteorites were created and why Kabuto compared Madara to So6p during that instance--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:11, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
It's a stretch at best to be creation of all things...but i do believe it to be a technique in it's own right. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 21:44, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
:Any other opinions for this topic? [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 18:29, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
The best bet is what I put forward, but this isn't a place where bets are taken as fact, thus we will have to wait. Pointless topic, since how would you call that... Zetsu creation technique?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:19, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 
:That's not the one, i'm talking about the Yin-Yang technique Madara used to create the ''Black'' Zetsu by transfering a portion of his will onto a Zetsu clone...given we had a description, an image of how it was used and a user, it could warrant a creation...maybe '''Will Transfer Technique''', since it was shown in translation that Black Zetsu was basically a low grade replica of Madara due to being infused with his '''will''' or conscience.[[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 00:24, October 25, 2012 (UTC)
 
::Now with that i can agree...is there any other thoughts on this topic?[[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 15:43, October 29, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Where exactly was it said that Black Zetsu was created using Yin-Yang Release? Because I only heard that the clones of White Zetsu were created using such- even then Madara had nothing to do with that- the statue and the living clone did all that. Yes he did implant his will into White Zetsu and the chakra receiver, but why exactly does a technique article need to be created for it? It's just one more place that speculation as to what his "will" is to be presented in a more "visible" fashion. Mentioning that he did it in his general abilities section should suffice, at least for now in my opinion.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 15:57, October 29, 2012 (UTC)
 
:Madara said it himself, whem he said he was teaching Obito Yin-Yang Techniques, plus the Yin-Yang as a whole has very little information to it, plus we have a (small granted) description that by infusing his will onto Zetsu to create it's Black side, he created a low grade replica of himself...given how Yin-Yang as whole appears to revolve around the manipulation of reality and creation...and the will part...to me i see it as a portion of his psyche/soul/chakra...since he said that the other portion in the chakra receiver for his revival, i'm imagining that is the reason for it. Either way i believe that what was used to create Black Zetsu is a Yin-Yang technique in it own right since it envolves the transformation of imagination (Madara's will) into a physical thing (The Black Zetsu).
 
Anyone care to join in? [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 14:59, December 31, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
I don't think anyone disagrees with it being a yin-yang release, but there's no need to create an article for that... closest thing to that would be "creation of all things" and that's speculative--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 02:16, January 1, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
== Respect Shown ==
 
 
Is it worthy saying that Madara has shown equal respect for Naruto just as for Hashirama ? --[[Special:Contributions/213.93.224.246|213.93.224.246]] ([[User talk:213.93.224.246|talk]]) 16:14, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 
----
 
this is me asking, (went online unintentionally) --[[User:Naruto6paths|Naruto6paths]] ([[User talk:Naruto6paths|talk]]) 16:17, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
And you concluded as such due to what..?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:15, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
After witnessing naruto countering his wood release: nativity of a world of trees and looking for the original naruto (when he used his shadow clones) just only to negotiate "seemingly" this can apply to his respect, instead of just talking to his shadow clones. --[[User:Naruto6paths|Naruto6paths]] ([[User talk:Naruto6paths|talk]]) 19:31, October 30, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== Did he really try to convince Naruto? ==
 
 
While reading the chapter it is impossible to ascertain whether Naruto's "Like hell that will work! I'm the son of th 4th Hokage!" was a response to Madara's talking or his attacks. We have no way to say, so I suggest all the parts saying Madara was trying to convince Naruto that the Eye of the Moon is for the good, should be removed. [[User:Xfing|Xfing]] ([[User talk:Xfing|talk]]) 10:49, November 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
What Madara says in return more strongly implies that he was trying to convince Naruto of his plan being for the good of humanity. Besides, on side points, Madara has shown genuine belief that his plan is for the greater good of humanity. The Fox King([[User:The Fox King|tylerbryant547@gmail.com]] ([[User talk:The Fox King|talk]]) 12:45, November 12, 2012 (UTC))
 
 
== Shadow Clone/Wood Clone ==
 
 
Is it noteworthy that Madara states he was the only one to be able to see through wood clones but he can't distinguish Naruto from his shadow clones (Considering he is alway surprised when he hits one of them)? --[[Special:Contributions/178.26.204.139|178.26.204.139]] ([[User talk:178.26.204.139|talk]]) 15:16, December 1, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
This is weird, as at first he could tell which is Naruto and a clone...--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:49, December 1, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Ah, forgot that then--[[Special:Contributions/178.26.204.139|178.26.204.139]] ([[User talk:178.26.204.139|talk]]) 03:13, December 3, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== Edo Tensei ==
 
 
Should madara's knowledge of Edo Tensei be listed under his intelligence section. He knows about its origins and how to break the contract.--[[User:Trogdor247|Trogdor247]] ([[User talk:Trogdor247|talk]]) 08:42, January 7, 2013 (UTC)
 
:There is nothing in particular that speaks to his intelligence there. The technique was created during his era in a village he lived in. He either stole the information or simply knew about it, it isn't exactly a hijutsu.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 08:52, January 7, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
That's knowledge not intelligence--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 08:55, January 7, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
== Tsukuyomi in left eye ==
 
 
If Obito has Tsukuyomi it's from Madaras Rinnegan eye right? Therefor his Tsukuyomi was in his left eye and his Amaterasu the right. May not even be important other than a trivia note, any thoughts? [[User:Arrancar79|Arrancar79]] ([[User talk:Arrancar79|talk]]) 05:25, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
I also figured as much, but it's still a speculation.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:54, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
:Not really speculation, if it was inconclusive or based on insufficient evidence it would be but unless Madara's eyes work in a totally unique way it's deductive reasoning and a valid observation. [[User:Arrancar79|Arrancar79]] ([[User talk:Arrancar79|talk]]) 00:19, February 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
He used Tsukuyomi movie only tho, once his Rinnegan eye changes into Madara's EMS and he casts it, he will be listed--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 01:04, February 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
::Never mentioned listing anyone as a user just whether it was a valid observation or noteworthy that Madara's Tsukuyomi originated in his left eye but if that was all movie info then I suppose it doesn't matter either way. [[User:Arrancar79|Arrancar79]] ([[User talk:Arrancar79|talk]]) 22:00, February 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
== Wind Release ==
 
 
Think, we should take of Anime only from Wind Release as he has Rinnegan in the manga which allows him to use it. Unless there is a "''Show a Technique, then we will wake up''" policy in here--[[User talk:East Dragons|<font size="4"><span style='color: Red'><font face="David">'''''East Dragons Feast'''</font></span></font>]] 09:35, February 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
To be honest, the policies in here are "everyone does as he/she pleases" in some cases, but to answer, it's the latter--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:50, February 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
:Sigh. The Rinnegan gives you the him the <big>'''potential'''</big> to use all nature transformations. That does not mean that Madara has opted to learn how to use them. As it is, the policy is "follow what was said exactly" which is explicitly that you gain the <big><big><big>'''potential'''</big></big></big> to learn every nature transformation does not mean you have to opt to learn it, everything else we note the use. Leave it up to some of you people, this place would be riddled with even more speculation that'd just float by us and find their way into articles. You guys want to do stuff like that you're free to find yourselves a forum.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 15:35, February 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
That's right, it's actually stated in the Rinnegan article--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:37, February 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
:Yes, so why would we take off the anime only? Has he used it in the manga? Isn't that what you should've told East Dragon Feast? --[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 15:55, February 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Yeah, I was being sarcastic, topics like these shouldn't even be made since the article explains it.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 16:02, February 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
:But this is popular misconception that requires the explaining ( '-')--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 16:08, February 15, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
::Ah ! I was satisfied with Elveonora's first explanation and din't want to make a big deal about it. Now don't make a big fuss about it Topic Closed.--[[User talk:East Dragons|<font size="4"><span style='color: Red'><font face="David">'''''East Dragons Feast'''</font></span></font>]] 10:31, February 16, 2013 (UTC)
 
::: That first "explanation" was sarcasm; So it wasn't really an explanation, it was actually along the lines of mocking. I know it may be hard to tell over the internet but please try your best. If you wanna know why he was being sarcastic, it's because we get question about Rinnegan "giving" acess to nature transformations thing far too often.[[Special:Contributions/71.71.58.231|71.71.58.231]] ([[User talk:71.71.58.231|talk]]) 15:19, February 16, 2013 (UTC) Yomiko-chan
 
 
== Sam Witwer? ==
 
 
The wikipedia page for Sam Witwer says he'll be voicing Madara in Storm 3. Can anyone verify this as legit or not? --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 02:35, February 22, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
== Sounds like Naoya Uchida voices Madara in Storm 3 ==
 
 
[http://www.saiyanisland.com/2013/02/naruto-storm-3-madara-rinnegan-tobi-and-the-five-kage/ here]. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 02:01, February 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
:Only the ending credits can prove that. --[[User:OmegaRasengan|OmegaRasengan]] ([[User talk:OmegaRasengan|talk]]) 02:23, February 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Yeah but listen to the part where he does the Meteor Technique. It's a pretty unique voice, I doubt that it could be anyone else. --[[User:M4ND0N|M4ND0N]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 02:36, February 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
:Well, if we're waiting for end credits then I'll refrain from editing, but I think the dub took the same route because it sounds like Kaplan in here. Again, I won't change it due to the rules but listen and you can at least judge if it sounds the same: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twzHNKUKMfM--[[User:DeadmanNK|DeadmanNK]] ([[User talk:DeadmanNK|talk]]) 04:28, February 28, 2013 (UTC)
 
::There's a video in youtube somewhere from an English game with has voice actor credits in the opening, when Kurama is still appearing in the Nine-Tails' attack sequence. I don't recall if they put Madara's VA in that part. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 01:08, March 1, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
== Madara's dead brothers ==
 
 
In the Background section, it is written "Hashirama revealed that his brother had been killed in battle. Telling Hashirama that he had four brothers who had also been killed" based on Chapter 622 in which Madara says "I have... 4 brothers. Well, I had them..." (mangareader.net). But we know Izuna is Madara's younger blood brother and judging from their similar size and appearance in Itachi's and Tobi's story flashbacks Izuna must be close enough to Madara in age. So wouldn't what Madara said, that he had 4 brothers simply mean that the number currently isn't 4 anymore but 1, Izuna. This would also explain why Izuna and him were so close to eachother, because their other 3 brothers died in combat. Izuna looked too old in all his flashback appearances to be born around (after) that chapter 622 talk Madara and Hashirama had.
 
 
--[[User:GyoMasta|GyoMasta]] ([[User talk:GyoMasta|talk]]) 14:30, February 28, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
From what I get, Madara have had 5 brothers, 6 siblings in total (omitting a possibility of sisters ) "I had 4 brothers" to me sounds like Izuna was yet to be born at the time. If he was including him, he would have said "I have had 4 brothers, 1 is left of them"--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 14:42, February 28, 2013 (UTC)
 
:Izuna and Madara looked too close in age to not to have been born by then. Apart from the speculation (I don't know how the total reached six?) saying he had four brothers can still mean that 1, 2, or even 3 were still alive; however unlikely as it seemed Izuna was his only surviving sibling.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 14:49, February 28, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Madara + 4 brothers + Izuna = 6 siblings, but ur right, there couldn't be a decade or so difference between them, so 5 siblings in total. That means 3 of them died and Izuna had left, but again, the way it has been worded... we will need a correct translation to know for sure--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 14:54, February 28, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
The wording also made me think something was off. But unless Izuna has had some form of growth anomally or growth enhancement, he couldn't be nearly the same size as Madara in all three childhood, teenagehood and adulthood stages we,ve seen him in the different concerned chapters: when Itachi said they were constantly competing, when he said they awakened their Sharingan young and were prodidies even by Uchiha standards, when they killed their bestfriends or witnessed their death and so on. Izuna was too tall and looked too old to be 8 or 10 years younger than Madara. --[[User:GyoMasta|GyoMasta]] ([[User talk:GyoMasta|talk]]) 15:09, February 28, 2013 (UTC)GyoMasta
 
 
I agree with you, Elv and Cerez, on the wording. I, too, believe he means he had four brothers, but there is no indication as to how many died, IIRC (and I am looking at the page now). With that in mind, I believe Izuna is one of the four brothers. I cannot say for Japanese and that choice of wording, but it is very common in English to correct a statement like that because the important part of the sentence is the number 4, which is what, I would assume, Madara wanted to correct. But again, I don't know how Japanese handles its grammar. --[[Special:Contributions/98.101.165.89|98.101.165.89]] ([[User talk:98.101.165.89|talk]]) 15:19, February 28, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
== Madara's current status ==
 
 
During Third Shinobi World War: Deceased
 
During Fourth Shinobi World War: Alive (via Edo Tensei then cut the contract with it) {{signed|ScottKazama}}
 
 
:Reanimated is not the same as alive and sign your posts. [[User:Arrancar79|Arrancar79]] ([[User talk:Arrancar79|talk]]) 10:36, March 2, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
== ? question ? ==
 
when the tailed beast ball shot by madara crosses the water and strikes the other shore, what continent or place is that. wouldnt that be the islands where the wave village use to be? or would it be some unknown continent...just realized in the middle of writing this that would entirely depend on which direction the tailed beast ball was shot {{unsigned|208.124.127.74}}
 
:We don't know. Just another piece of land. Could even be the same, like opposite sides of a bay. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 01:51, March 3, 2013 (UTC)
 
ok thank you, kinda figured that would be my anser while typing the question
 

Latest revision as of 09:37, July 25, 2014

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Deceased vs. Incapacitated Edit

His body exploded to pieces, and in his place Kaguya returns to life. How is he incapacitated? He should be noted as deceased, like Obito is now. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 06:29, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

I could be wrong but I doubt Kishimoto would kill off someone like Madara like that. With that immortality he acquired, I'm not sure what to believe about his status even if he is blown to bits.--Hockey Machete (talk) 06:33, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

Well, Madara's body kind of "shrunk down", it isn't like he went "boom" and then Kaguya appeared. It's a bit weird, that much at least.--JOA20 (talk) 06:35, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

I think Madara isn't completely dead yet, as Hashi taught Sasuke a jutsu that responds to the senjutsu chakra Madara absorbed from Hashi, in an effort to stop and save him. Wisenoob (talk) 06:56, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

Presumed Deceased exists for cases like this one--Elveonora (talk) 10:57, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

Madara was transformed into Kaguya. That's more like incapacitated than presumed deceased. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 11:10, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
Except incapacitated sounds like a temporary condition. Do you expect Kaguya to mutate back into Madara or something?--Elveonora (talk) 11:20, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
That Kaguya would relinquish control, no. That it would be feasible, yes. We've seen the other tailed beasts coming back into existence after they were merged into the Shinju, this isn't much different. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 11:46, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
They actually weren't merged, they were simply inside the statue. Madara isn't deceased only if his consciousness is still there somewhere and his soul hasn't gone to the pure world. Although I don't see how could that be, considering he was torn apart--Elveonora (talk) 12:04, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
Seriously, how are people seeing him exploding and what not? When he reached critical mass and was completely covered by BZ, he clearly began shrinking back down, taking Kaguya's form. There was no tearing apart, no explosion. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 12:06, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
I meant those tumor-like blobs.--Elveonora (talk) 12:13, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

Abnormal growth, sign of instability, same thing happened to Obito before he got a firm grip on Shinju's power. Shrank down once it got stable, same here, just with the other side winning. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 12:16, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

Right now, Incapacitated. No real way to know if he's a corpse or not which I doubt he is considering Kaguya just used his body to to become herself. Basically as long as Kaguya is alive, so is Madara, if only on a very technical sense.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 13:25, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

The Truth Seeking Balls he placed on Hashirama and Minato disintegrated. Doesn't that indicate Madara's demise? Yatanogarasu (Talk) 01:42, June 12, 2014 (UTC)

It indicates Madara lost control over those items, just like how he lost control and was overtaken by Kaguya. WindStar7125 (Talk)WindStar7125 (talk) 00:50, June 13, 2014 (UTC)

I think it indicates that he is indeed dead. His chakra can't maintain them anymore and if someone's chakra disappears, that means they're dead.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 01:54, June 13, 2014 (UTC)
Agreed. I think the presumed deceased tag is deserved in this instance. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 02:07, June 13, 2014 (UTC)
Madara's chakra is gone and the remnants of his presence (his rods and TSB) have disintegrated. I agree. Presumed deceased should be the label used. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 06:20, June 13, 2014 (UTC)
He might be deader than dead too since his soul is presumably consumed or destroyed by Kaguya's takeover, thus his weapons disintegrating.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 02:10, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
It is possible that Madara has died, but it is still too early to say for sure, which is why "presumed deceased" is what should be used. The specifics of what exactly happened to Madara hasn't even been confirmed yet. All we have is speculation. Do you honestly think Madara would be killed off in a snap, without any actual closure? The fact that Black Zetsu rewrote the Uchiha stone tablet into saying the things that drove Madara over the edge even makes it possible that he might return to redeem himself. Madara's fate isn't clear, which is why we can only presume he's dead. Hot Cakes (talk) 21:44, June 24, 2014 (UTC)

Absorption Soul User Edit

Madara should be a user of the Absorption Soul Jutsu. Obito said he could use the human path to extract information and since Obito learned the Six Path Jutsu from Madara, that means Madara can use the Absorption Soul jutsu. Also Obito can perform Izanagi since he learned Uchiha forbidden techniques from Madara therefore making a Madara a user of the Izanagi. Same idea should apply to Madara also being a user of the Absorption Soul jutsu.--Rinneganmaster (talk) 19:42, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

That's why he has each Path technique listed, as in Animal Path, Deva Path, etc. This is a case where we don't have it as clearly defined as Deva Path and each individual technique. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:36, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

Obito can use the Absorption Soul Jutsu no doubt about that. My point is that Madara should be able to use Absorption Soul Jutsu since Obito learned all of his rinnegan jutsu from Madara. --Rinneganmaster (talk) 05:36, June 5, 2014 (UTC)

Madara taught Obito Six Paths Technique. Omni's point is that a single Path (besides Deva and Outer which are known to have more) may have more than just one technique--Elveonora (talk) 11:04, June 5, 2014 (UTC)

Okay that is reasonable.--Rinneganmaster (talk) 21:08, June 5, 2014 (UTC)

Page Images Vandalism Edit

There are two images that were vandalized, in Personality section. One depicts the Flash, and the other... reminds me some achievement.--VolteMetalic (talk) 10:20, June 9, 2014 (UTC)

Okay, I found some more. But they seem to be only when visually looking. When you click on it, it is correct. Hmm... odd.--VolteMetalic (talk) 10:24, June 9, 2014 (UTC)

Strongest Uchiha?Edit

Now that Sasuke has attained the power of the Six Paths and overwhelmed Madara multiple times, should Madara still be listed as the strongest uchiha?--ElvinWindSword (talk) 23:19, June 12, 2014 (UTC)

Interested in knowing also. Bump SusanooUnleashed (talk) 14:17, June 15, 2014 (UTC)

Madara is still stronger.
  • more experience
  • YYR
  • 3 Rinnegan
  • Wood Release
  • Shinju's jinchuuriki

While Sasuke is still young, has only Yin Release, 1 Rinnegan, (until confirmed otherwise) has no Wood Release and isn't a jinchuuriki. Am I missing something? Also it isn't our job to decide anyway, but the author's.--Elveonora (talk) 14:38, June 15, 2014 (UTC)

Not to mentioned Sasuke was never shown overwhelming Madara anyway. Madara both let him cut him in half and rendered everything Sasuke and Naruto threw at him in the end futile. (The Fox King (talk) 23:37, July 16, 2014 (UTC))

Deceased? Edit

It's incredibly premature to list him as such since we know nothing about what happened to him. --Mandon (talk) 06:56, June 15, 2014 (UTC)

I wouldn't say that. Remember when Kakashi died and his chakra completely vanished? Since Madara's chakra and anything related to it is gone, I'd say it's accurate to say that he's dead.--Hockey Machete (talk) 07:14, June 15, 2014 (UTC)

Death isn't the only thing that can make someone's chakra "vanish". When Sasuke hid inside Manda and unsummoned him his chakra was said to vanish. The fact that someone's chakra can no longer be sensed is not always a definitive indication as to their status.--Soul reaper (talk) 15:39, June 15, 2014 (UTC)

Appearance of MangekyouEdit

Is there a need to describe what his Mangekyou looks like in the abilities section? Shouldn't that be placed into the appearance section, or the Mangekyou Sharingan page? D.Phoenix (talk) 05:47, June 18, 2014 (UTC)

Susanoo clad Kurama anime picture? Edit

Is the anime picture of Madara's final Susanoo-clad Kurama worth adding? If so? Can somebody please do so?--JustaNobody (talk) 21:12, June 19, 2014 (UTC)

Not enough space. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:16, June 19, 2014 (UTC)

Maybe by removing repetitive lines, maybe that can free up some space to add the picture, and have those removed lines added to the Mangekyō Sharingan overview and info? Maybe? Maybe not?--JustaNobody (talk) 23:40, June 19, 2014 (UTC)

That's very rich coming from you, your Madara edits are the most repetitive and over-bloating there are. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:35, June 20, 2014 (UTC)

It was just a simple request is that so difficult, really?--JustaNobody (talk) 06:16, June 20, 2014 (UTC)

Tailed Beast Control to jutsu list? Edit

Is it worth adding the technique Tailed Beast Control to Madara's jutsu list, since it is mentioned under his abilities?--JustaNobody (talk) 02:48, June 21, 2014 (UTC)

That's just Genjutsu: Sharingan--Elveonora (talk) 11:35, June 21, 2014 (UTC)
Further, Tailed Beast Control isn't so much a technique, but a...type of skill. Like being able to throw a kunai, if you will.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 11:42, June 21, 2014 (UTC)

I guess he is dead Edit

If Naruto and Sasuke are going to seal Kaguya then there's no chance of Madara returning to the series. Does that give us grounds to list him as deceased? --Mandon (talk) 22:31, June 21, 2014 (UTC)

As of now, they're only planning to seal Kaguya away. They haven't done it yet. Madara's fate is still unknown, which is why "presumed deceased" is what should be used.Hot Cakes (talk) 21:46, June 24, 2014 (UTC)

Infobox image Edit

Which one do you prefer to be set in the infobox? The current one or the image that uploaded by M4ND0N‎? —Shakhmoot Nadeshiko Village Symbol (Talk) 23:09, June 21, 2014 (UTC)

I guess since it's clear where my position on this stands, I'll list my pros and cons.

Pros: - Frontal view - Natural color scheme of the armor [bright red, not darkened via Edo Tensei] - Image of Madara while he was alive and not an Edo Tensei Cons: - He's using Susanoo so the lighting's a little messed up.

However in my defense of this, the Susanoo isn't as noticeable when viewed from afar in an infobox and it just makes him seem a little blue-ish, but we previously used one with a blue tint in the past as well. It's still in my opinion the best image of Madara currently available and it wouldn't be permanent, since there's certainty of a better one arising in the coming episodes. I guess it comes down to whether you'd want a non-Edo image now or wait for one without Susanoo to arise. I don't see a problem with using it now, however. --Mandon (talk) 00:28, June 22, 2014 (UTC)

Why change it now? We have at least two to three flashback episodes that will have a plethora of images showing him alive, in the daylight, and in his prime. Why settle for something that is inherently flawed (no offense Mandon, its just that the Susanoo does effect the quality of the image) when we could literally wait a week or two at most and take our pick of the litter? ~ Ten Tailed Fox Sasuke's Rinnegan (Purple) 00:36, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
I agree with Ten Tailed - wait to change it. The current one can last a couple of more weeks. --Kasan94 Nara Symbol Talkpage 01:19, June 22, 2014 (UTC)

Isn't it official now that Hashirama is talking about reviving Madara that he is dead?--ElvinWindSword (talk) 19:43, July 3, 2014 (UTC)

They think he is dead. They still don't know for sure. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:58, July 3, 2014 (UTC)

And again Edit

Which one do you prefer to be set in the infobox? The current one or the image that uploaded by M4ND0N‎? —Shakhmoot Nadeshiko Village Symbol (Talk) 21:00, July 10, 2014 (UTC)

The current one. The image doesn't need changed at all. Nothing wrong with it at all. --SuperSajuuk Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | Channel 21:05, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
The badass one--Elveonora (talk) 21:10, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
I would still say the current one, out of those two --Kasan94 Nara Symbol Talkpage 21:11, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
The current one, because it's the most iconic look of him (red armor included)--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 21:23, July 10, 2014 (UTC)

Of course it needs to be changed, Sajuuk. The current image never should have been used to begin with. We only chose it because we assumed at the end of chapter 656 that that it was an accurate depiction of how Madara would look after being resurrected, since his eyes hadn't disintegrated yet. We don't use reanimation images if an acceptable living image of the character is available.. I'm pretty sure that precedent was established long ago, and this image was the only one to break it. --Mandon (talk) 22:39, July 10, 2014 (UTC)

Mandon, from the preview of the next episode, I find the smiled Madara's screenshot is very good one to be set in the infobox. But as TU3-sama said that the red armor is the symbol of this character. I think it's better to keep it, let's wait for the next episode to see that. —Shakhmoot Nadeshiko Village Symbol (Talk) 22:54, July 10, 2014 (UTC)

He doesn't have his armor in that one either. Plus there's no guarantee we will get a suitable image of him in his armor during this flashback.. what then? I don't think it's appropriate to keep an Edo Tensei image when there's plenty of viable images of him while he's alive. I guess we'll cross that road when we come to it. --Mandon (talk) 02:51, July 11, 2014 (UTC)

hows this? yes theres some Susanoo shit, but its still mostly a good color not being obscured and in perfect profile , and in his famous armor.--RexGodwin (talk) 06:17, July 21, 2014 (UTC)

I don't really like it, because of that Susanoo stuff. --Kasan94 Nara Symbol Talkpage 08:18, July 21, 2014 (UTC)

Let's just wait till he's resurrected in the anime. As much as I hate the current image, I can't find a suitable image in the flashback and believe me, I was thorough in searching for one. --Mandon (talk) 19:33, July 24, 2014 (UTC)

there wont be a better one of him being revived.. he immediately loses both eyes and loses his armor after. quite the contrary, theres a few good shots in this episode:

MadaraProD

Option A

MadaraProC

Option B

MadaraProB

Option C

MadaraProA

Option D

MadaraProposal E

Option E

--RexGodwin (talk) 22:54, July 24, 2014 (UTC)

I'm okay with both B and D, with a preference for B. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Sasuke's Rinnegan (Purple) 23:19, July 24, 2014 (UTC)
C or D for me. --KirinNOTKarin98 (talk) 02:16, July 25, 2014 (UTC)

So in the absence of a decent image of Madara in his armor, I feel it's worth putting this one up as option E. It was the original image we used before we started waiting for a better photo from a flashback and quite frankly, I think it's fine, aside from the gray scale, it represents Madara's character much better than any of the proposed images, depicting him with his armor and gunbai, which is something no other photo can do. --Mandon (talk) 03:37, July 25, 2014 (UTC)

I am absolutely against that. Your option is in terrible quality, greyscale, and only represents Madara as he was seen earlier in the series. Not once since he became prominent, was he ever depicted with a headband on his forehead, for one. You simply don't see an image you like, but that doesn't mean that there wasn't a decent choice from the recent episodes, and options A through D are proof of that. That being said, Option C is probably our best choice. He's facing the "camera", if you will, it shows Madara's typical demeanor, and without any dōjutsu in his eyes. He is wearing his trademark Uchiha robes (he doesn't have the armor, but I really don't care about that) and, better yet, he's alive. I say change it to Option C and leave it that way. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Sasuke's Rinnegan (Purple) 05:03, July 25, 2014 (UTC)

I wasn't weighing these options based off whether I like an image or not. The artwork and animation for this episode was quite terrible, so yeah, I don't think any of the proposed are particularly suitable.

Additionally, your argument is extremely flawed. Not once was Madara depicted with a headband before he became a prominent character? Try 124 chapters ago when he appeared in Onoki's flashback. Bad argument is bad. The greyscale point of course, still stands, but it still represents his character better than any of the proposed images. Before Madara was even named let alone established as a major character, this is how he appeared, armor and all. His gunbai and clothing are part of his iconic appearance, so they are important.

However, with that being said Kishimoto changed the color of his gunbai so you could say my proposed image boasts a non-canon color scheme, but the gray scale fixes that problem. Regardless if that's a dealbreaker then I support option B for the slightly more refined artwork. --Mandon (talk) 06:07, July 25, 2014 (UTC)

I Support C and D. C have a better angle at him, while D have better light. --Kasan94 Nara Symbol Talkpage 08:09, July 25, 2014 (UTC)

Not sure what episode you saw, but the animation was just fine. Besides that depiction of Madara is very off how he normally looks in this day and age; just look at his hair then. And people need to stop obsessing over the red armor. -.- the focal point is his head/face so that is irrelevant. Plus that grey scale is awful. Maybe if it was properly colored but just no.--RexGodwin (talk) 08:55, July 25, 2014 (UTC)

Option C (Kuroiraikou (talk) 09:24, July 25, 2014 (UTC))

Not sure why changing the image is so important, as I've stated before we got incredibly lucky to get a good shot of him, armor and all and not looking like a reanimated corpse. I see no reason to switch to a less iconic picture just to have a picture of him not dead. Going through so many loops just to change the image just seems like a waste of time and energy. As such, I abstain from picking. Have fun.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 09:26, July 25, 2014 (UTC)
I honestly think the current one is fine. Yes, it's an image of him as an edo tensei, but none of the telltale cracks are there. He looks exactly as he did in life. My only problem is the lighting but in a case such as this I don't think it's too much of a deal breaker. That said, if it has to be changed I'd go with Option C. Good framing, good expression, good art. D has better lighting but it's not a great shot and something about it just makes him look younger.--Soul reaper (talk) 09:37, July 25, 2014 (UTC)

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