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===Trimming Down: Abilities===
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To avoid further edit war, I am adding this here with my intentions. Namely, the complete removal of [[Bukijutsu]], [[kenjutsu]] and Intelligence from his abilities section. As well as general trimming down of the prose and circlejerking his section is full of. Because quite frankly, his intelligence should go under Personality, and bukijutsu and kenjutsu are literally only worth a sentence because they aren't that important most of his fighting style was focused around Susanoo, with very little use of a sword or gubai.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 23:50, December 22, 2013 (UTC)
   
<center><big><big><big>SPECULATION WILL BE REMOVED</big></big></big></center>
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: I understand what you are saying, but that is also like saying that Shikamaru's intelligence is not a defining attribute to him. Similar, Itachi's signature ability wasn't shurikens, but was still a noticeable skill of his. Steveo920, 18:56 December 22, 2013
   
== Kabuto didn't enhance Madara's power ==
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: Seriously, I am all for making this page sleeker, I've been reducing all day to help out. Not just the abilities section, but the personality section as well. I just think that if the character shows noticeable skill in it, it should be mention to some extent. Steveo920, 19:-1, December 22, 2013
   
Chapter 601 has provided an effective explanation of what Kabuto meant by "resurrecting Madara beyond his prime". We saw that Madara was elderly, much more so than the likes of Danzo, Hiruzen or the elders. Like 85+ years old. And still, he was resurrected in his youthful form. That's what Kabuto's experimentation was about. He managed to revive Madara with all the power he has amassed right until his death, yet in a youthful body. That's what makes him "complete beyond his prime". It's not like Kabuto added any powers to Madara, he just made him young again (Madara himself said very much the same thing). I thereby suggest to reword all the instances suggesting that Kabuto's experimentation made Madara more powerful. It should be stated more as that it brought him back in his youthful body but with all the powers he had acquired until his old age, inclusive. [[User:Xfing|Xfing]] ([[User talk:Xfing|talk]]) 19:15, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
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::The issue is though intelligence is not Madara's defining feature. Madara's defining ability is his dojutsu. He is smart no denying that, but it is not a defining ability. Same with kenjutsu and bukijustsu, he for the most part uses them. But he isn't defined by them. Its not the same situation of Shikamaru or Tenten, both or are defined by their intelligence and weapon techniques respectively. Both ken and bukijutsu can be mentioned, they should be mentioned, but it is not worth a large section which continues to just read like a circlejerk of how awesome Madara is.
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::Like that's the second part of the problem. We don't need to have multiple mentions of how Madara can pwn fodder shinobi with no effort. We don't need to literally repeat some of his great feats multiple times in multiple sections. That was what I was trying to do to trim this down, I removed repeated actions and dropped ones that are quite frankly pointless (Mentioning his can battle an entire army is fine. Mentioning he can battle an entire army multiple times and it becomes a circlejerk.)--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 00:08, December 23, 2013 (UTC)
   
No, reviving his into his prime = making him young again. "Beyond his prime" = stronger than in his youth.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:24, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
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Everything should be mentioned, im agaisnt taking certain thing out [[User:Munchvtec|Munchvtec]] ([[User talk:Munchvtec|talk]]) 00:29, December 23, 2013 (UTC)munchvtec
   
:That's what I said. He's revived into his prime age-wise, but has powers exceeding it, like the Rinnegan he awakened shortly before his death. So what Kabuto did is just revive Madara young with all the powers he amassed into old age. This doesn't mean for example that the Hashirama face on Madara's chest is an effect of Kabuto's work like the article suggests. [[User:Xfing|Xfing]] ([[User talk:Xfing|talk]]) 21:21, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
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:::Good contribution. Now tell us how you really feel or you just like the circlejerk of information Madara's page has devolved into?--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 00:31, December 23, 2013 (UTC)
   
Can I please add that it never said the old guy with the sharingan madara? For all we know it could be a random old uchiha who introduced him to madara for all we know...
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: I agree, little things shouldn't be blown out of proportion, that's why I am still gragually trimming it down myself, but to act like they had no involvement at all is like saying they have no ability for it all. Hashirama's life force and chakra is a key aspect to Madara's plan, but it wasn't a defining attribute to Hashirama himself. Whats-more, Madara's weapon and intelligence traits are noticeable as he was known for his gunbai and his intelligence played an important role to the development of the world, having manipulated so much from beyond the grave. Steveo920, 19:30, December 22, 2013
Speculation...
 
[[Special:Contributions/166.147.89.161|166.147.89.161]] ([[User talk:166.147.89.161|talk]]) 03:56, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
-_- it looks exactly like Madara but old so there is no way it is anybody else... and Elveonora is right from what I see. [[Special:Contributions/173.66.119.89|173.66.119.89]] ([[User talk:173.66.119.89|talk]]) 09:41, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
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::To be honest, your trimming down seems more phoned in. And you are still blowing things out to be bigger than they need to be. As I said he has used his gubai and that can be mentioned, but not to such a degree that he ''needs'' entire section dedicated to it. We don't ''need'' a section on his intelligence because "he manipulated things from the grave". He actually didn't, he had Tobi do his works for him, and had Kabuto not revived Madara, Tobi would have been alone with the Ten-Tails. We can mention he is smart fine, but he does not need an entire section based on his intelligence at least not in his Abilities section. So yes, even "important role to the development of the world" is overhyping him. The problem is that much of what is in the article is overhype. Things need to actually be ''removed'' to solve this problem not trying to dance around the issue.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 00:45, December 23, 2013 (UTC)
   
People ****ing need to learn some reading comprehension or/and check their eyes, ur like 100th person with "who was that old guy?" doubt and question. It looks like old Madara, and the flashback happened after Kakashi asked Obito why did he join him.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:40, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
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:: Okay, I'll admit that by statement about his intelligence wasn't thought out, I guess I was getting a little emotional since I seriously put so much work into my edits, but the way you are saying it, characters like Kakashi don't need an intellgence section. It isn't his most defining but it place a huge role on how he operates. Steveo920, 19:53, December 22, 2013
   
:There is no need to go off on people like that. Not everyone will be as quick on the uptake as you are. When I first saw the face, for a moment I thought Nagato was back... People will get things wrong sometimes--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 15:57, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
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::: I'm of the same mind as Ultimate, honestly, and for every page. Not just Madara. I don't know when it became acceptable that every single sneeze a character makes is mentioned in the ability section, but its needless, and takes up space that could be used by actual useful information. The abilities section should give a '''summary'''—key word here—of Madara's defining capabilities. His dōjutsu, to name the most significant. Trimming bukijutsu and intelligence, or even outright removing them, would be fine. Madara hasn't even used his fan since he first arrived back on the battlefield, and, I'm sorry, while he's skilled with other weapons, they clearly aren't his main mode of attack. Not to mention, the abilities section was mostly buffed up by a select few who seem to worship Madara's ever action, adding in needless "junk info" along with a ton of unneeded references. These articles aren't meant to recount every single action in the series done by these characters, verbatim. It is to give a summary. If people want to know that Madara Uchiha was capable of using a fan to blow away Naruto, then they can visit the Jutsu page, or read the manga, but it certainly doesn't need an entire section dedicated to it. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 00:56, December 23, 2013 (UTC)
   
Yes, of course not everyone is a fast-thinker ... but when dozens of people don't get it, there's something wrong. I have seen people stating absurdities about things in a chapter that weren't even there, like slime coming from Obito's arm, while that was a piece of clothing etc. Since the flashback was in response to a question about Madara, the old dude there was obviously him.
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:: If you want to reduce the sections, I will have no problem with that. I just think that if they show more than average skill in the said area, it should be noted. It's kind of like how on various pages a character's limits are noted, like Itahci not being able to defeat Jiraiya. Its not defining, but it paints a clearer picture on what the character can do. 2Steveo920, 20:09, December 22, 2012
And lol Cerez, since when was Nagato '''that old back then''' and with a Sharingan? :)
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:::Except this isn't about his limit, its nothing but circlejerking around how he is close to being a god. We could mention him being legendary and strong but instead the article throws extreme focus on him wrecking or hyping up little things he does. Honestly skills outside of dojutsu and nature transformations can be summed up as "Highly skilled in taijutsu and various weapons, particularly his gumbai". That is literally all that needs to be said about kenjutsu bukijutsu and taijutsu yet the article has 3 different sections about them.-[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 01:40, December 23, 2013 (UTC)
They just look very alike (in before adopted son/clone theories)--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:00, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
Guys, back on topic. I will try to explain my reasoning. This is all based on facts, there's little if any speculation involved.
 
Kabuto said that Madara has been restored beyond his prime. "Prime" can be considered as the pinnacle of power as well as young age. Let's look at what Madara had in life.
 
   
[+] - he had it [-] - he lacked it
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:: Okay, I'll admit I don't even know what "circlejerking" is exactly, but I'm not trying to overhype anything> I just want to give readers a better idea than just thinking a character is good at something when there is more information. To go overboard about how he is close to being a god from intelligence or weapon skills would be like saying he is borderline clairvoyant or he no army in the world could stand against him respectively. Steveo920, 20:48, December 22, 2012
   
Prime Madara:
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In my opinion, I find trimming down Madara's article to be pointless. 100,000 some bytes is hardly that bad, and furthermore, given that the manga is scheduled to end in 2014 (so probably in a little more than two months or three), it's not like there's that much more information that will be given on Madara. Furthermore, Bukijutsu and whatnot ''are'' crucial to a character. The purpose of a Wikia site for information is to give readers a thorough guideline about characters and other associated things, so to shorten it to only bare essentials and cutting out what we consider "unimportant" is silly. As a canon site, we should present ''exactly'' what Kishi gives us through the chapters, not shortening it and summarizing it to how we personally fancy it. I dunno, just my two cents. --[[User:Silver-Haired Seireitou|Silver-Haired Seireitou]] ([[User talk:Silver-Haired Seireitou|talk]]) 05:07, December 23, 2013 (UTC)
[+] EMS
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:Except the wikia was never supposed to be an alternative to actually reading the manga/watching the anime. Sections like abilities are supposed to be summuries, not word for word dick jerking of a particular character where every single thing they do is consider the Kings Gold and hyped as if it is an intergral part of the character.-[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 10:33, December 23, 2013 (UTC)
[+] Young Age
 
[-] Hashirama Tissue/Wood Release
 
[-] Rinnegan
 
   
Older Madara
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:Various characters have various abilities that aren't the most prominent, but still give an overall idea what they can do. Kakashi specializes in ninjutsu supplemented by his Sharingan, yet he is still a highly skilled taijutsu user, one of few able to use any of the Eight Gates, which he rarely uses but is still noteworthy. Steveo920. 10:51, Dec 23, 2013
[+] EMS
 
[+] Hashirama Tissue/Wood Release
 
[+] Rinnegan - progressed from EMS in conjunction with Senju DNA
 
   
Super Old Madara
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:: Okay, but you're equating "noteworthy" as an excuse to write an entire novel and dedicate a unique section to the skill. Even your example can be summed up as, "Kakashi is a talented user of taijutsu, being one of the few shinobi capable of opening the Eight Gates". Bingo. Done. Not five paragraphs on everytime he successfully landed a punch on a villain. Ultimate is absolutely right. This wiki is not an alternative for the manga. If you want to know every single skill a character has, that is what the story is for. Summaries are what we are supposed to give: nothing further. That is what a Wikia—an encyclopedia—is meant for. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 19:37, December 23, 2013 (UTC)
[-] Rinnegan - he gave it away to Nagato
 
[-] Young Age
 
[+] Hashirama Tissue/Wood Release - actually he'd probably been experimenting with that shit ever since the battle at VotE. He already had the flower tree grown etc.
 
   
Now what Kabuto meant by enhancing Madara is the following:
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::: No, my point about Kakashi isn't that he can use the eight gates, its that his abilities in the taijutsu are more than just basic. Again, I am not trying to glorify it or right an entire "novel" as you put it, I am just saying that needs more detail. Steveo920, 14:50, December 23, 2013
1) he resurrected him in his prime, age-wise, (normal Edo would have revived him an old man), while at the same time having access to powers he unlocked way later in life, i.e. past his prime. Like the Wood Release he got only after VotE and working with Hashirama tissue.
 
2) he resurrected him with his peak abilities intact, that is assuming that Hashirama really did fuck him up after the battle at VotE. And I think he really did, if he hadn't, then why didn't Madara start wreaking havoc again right after he healed up? He probably really did become the shell of his former self, and normal Edo Tensei would have revived him as such. I admit that this point is speculative, though, so it can be skipped.
 
3) he resurrected him with his original pair of eyes (that is the Rinnegan), even though Madara lacked these eyes at the time of his death. Normal Edo would have resurrected him with that single little left Sharingan replacement instead.
 
   
That's what Kabuto meant by saying Madara was completed beyond his prime. He indeed was - he was young and yet possessed abilities he never had in his youth (not until after the VotE battle, at least). that's why he was "enhanced beyond his prime". '''It's erroneous, though, to think that Kabuto created any of these abilities, as Madara did it himself. He even said so.''' Kabuto merely took them all and put them in the right place - that is, the young body of Madara.
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:::: No, it really doesn't need more detail. Detail is for the manga to work out. We work out summaries. Plain and simple. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 21:01, December 23, 2013 (UTC)
   
Edo Madara:
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:::::I'm in full agreement of trimming down this article (and some others, but that's for another time). Madara Uchiha is one of the series' most popular characters among the fans, so it is easy to subconsciously blow his feats out of proportion. Emphasis should be on his dojutsu prowess, but everything should be concise and summarized. I can help out with the personality section as well though, since I've done minor work in said areas in the past. --[[User:Kakashi Namikaze|Kakashi Namikaze]] - [[User talk:Kakashi Namikaze|talk]] 14:20, December 25, 2013 (UTC)
[+] Young Age
 
[+] EMS
 
[+] Hashirama Tissue/Wood Release
 
[+] Rinnegan
 
   
Not to mention the Edo Tensei perks. Now compare this to Prime Madara and see why this one's better. [[User:Xfing|Xfing]] ([[User talk:Xfing|talk]]) 15:59, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
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== Elderly pic for infobox? ==
   
== Susanoo ? ==
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Currently it's the most recent pic of Madara when he was alive that's animated. The current photo doesn't show his revived self at all so what do you guys think? --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 17:46, January 9, 2014 (UTC)
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:...But he's regained his youth...that was from a flashback. --[[User:OmegaRasengan|OmegaRasengan]] ([[User talk:OmegaRasengan|talk]]) 17:49, January 9, 2014 (UTC)
   
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/File:Madara%27s_chakra_and_gunbai.jpg
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There's currently no image of him post rinne-tensei in the anime though. The one we're currently using doesn't even resemble his current appearance, it's just a pic of him in his edo-tensei form. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 17:52, January 9, 2014 (UTC)
is that some kind of susanoo ? or just his chakra being chanelled through the gunbai and shaped into a wall against the outer path's spears ?--[[Special:Contributions/201.1.21.80|201.1.21.80]] ([[User talk:201.1.21.80|talk]]) 11:18, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
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:Look, what is posted in the infobox is what the character currently looks like the anime. Once Hashirama vs. Madara is animated, a pic of living Madara will likely be uploaded. Until then, this will suffice.--[[User:OmegaRasengan|OmegaRasengan]] ([[User talk:OmegaRasengan|talk]]) 17:57, January 9, 2014 (UTC)
:Going with the former.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 11:19, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
:: Gonna have to disagree there. The chakra begins being channeled immediately when Madara grabs his gunbai. In the next panel, when the shield actually appears, he is see holding his gunbai in a defensive position, whereas when he received it, he was just holding out beside him. There is some significance with that. Furthermore, in the panels following that one, when the barrier flares up, its just that, a barrier. There are no bones and none of the typical formations of Susanoo. Thirdly, Susanoo has never been formed into a wall before. We have seen Madara extensively use his Susanoo in earlier battles and have seen both Itachi and Sasuke make liberal use of their Susanoo, and in none of its three incarnations has it shown to be A) just chakra manifesting without any skeletal structure and B) forming into a wall-like structure. This is obviously coming from the gunbai and is some kind of barrier technique. I doubt it is the [[Uchiha Flame Battle Encampment]], but it is clear that it is coming from the gunbai and that it is ''not'' Susanoo. I'll make a page for it, but if anyone disagrees with me, just have it deleted. The evidence is sufficient to suggest in favor of this argument though. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 03:55, September 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
: '''EDIT''': Not to mention, seen [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i25wt0DV5h0&feature=related here] the sheild Madara creates covers himself AND Obito as well as the aura around just their bodies. Susanoo only covers one person at a time. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 04:00, September 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
It looks like Susanoo. [[User:Arrancar79|Arrancar79]] ([[User talk:Arrancar79|talk]]) 04:46, September 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
:: Yes and the Uchiha Flame Battle Encampment looks like the [[Four Violet Flames Battle Encampment]]. The point is, numerous techniques are virtual look alikes in terms of how they are colored and appeared, but just because an attack is colored like Susanoo doesn't make it Susanoo. Like I said, there are no bones, there is no nothing that would indicate Susanoo. Nothing at all. Not even a small fragment. Even the way it used is fundamentally different from Susanoo. In all instances of Susanoo being used for defense, the user ''at least'' manifests the ribcage. Using a ''wall'' has never happened. Nor has a Susanoo ever covered two people at once in its aura in just its initial state (or any stage for that matter, while all three panels clearly show it covering both Obito and Madara. That alone is enough evidence it isn't Susanoo. Furthermore, the chakra is literally shown covering just the gunbai the page ''after'' the barrier is used. The gunbai was placed in a defensive position before the barrier manifested. The gunbai is clearly the source of the barrier. Not Madara. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 04:58, September 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
== Wind nature or Return of Uchiha? ==
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Well I don't know much about the image guidelines EDIT: By that I mean the factors in choosing an infobox image. not the actual guidelines, but I'm just saying the current image isn't a photo of him while he's alive. And he doesn't look exactly like that in the current chapters. We thought his post-RT appearance would resemble his edo tensei body and that's why the image was decided upon, but clearly that wasn't the case. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 18:03, January 9, 2014 (UTC)
As we never saw what Madara did in the AMV from the game exactly, would it be less speculative to think it was RoU or was the anime only wind nature from something else I missed? [[User:Arrancar79|Arrancar79]] ([[User talk:Arrancar79|talk]]) 04:19, September 14, 2012 (UTC)
 
: Personally, I have the game and have seen the cut scene for myself, and its pretty obvious what happened. There's a gust of wind knocking back a large amount of ninja, followed by the scene cutting to Madara with his gunbai. Though he is not seen in the action of swinging the fan, you have to use common sense here to deduce who is using it. So yes, his usage of the fan to produce wind gusts in the OVA is considered anime usage. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 05:03, September 14, 2012 (UTC)
 
::: I have the game myself and have watched the scene many times. I wasn't questioning who used it but questioning what happened. He was attacked then we see his attackers blown back accompanied by a disturbance of the air and flattened grass. It was not much of a stretch then to guess what happened but knowing what we know now I believe it is more responsible to attribute it to a use of Return of Uchiha. Unless RoU is stated to have a Wind nature it should be removed till he's seen using a Wind jutsu IMO. [[User:Arrancar79|Arrancar79]] ([[User talk:Arrancar79|talk]]) 23:40, September 14, 2012 (UTC)
 
::::I've seen the video of those scenes at youtube, and it was pretty clear for me that he made a gust of wind with his gunbai, the likes of which only makes sense through the use of Wind Release. I wouldn't say Uchiha Return is a Wind Release, but it should still be there as long as those scenes are considered anime. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 23:53, September 14, 2012 (UTC)
 
:::I have to disagree. It's speculative to continue citing Madara as having a Chakra nature based on so little. He's never used a wind technique and we now see he has the ability to redirect force/jutsu with his war fan. [[User:Arrancar79|Arrancar79]] ([[User talk:Arrancar79|talk]]) 00:15, September 15, 2012 (UTC)
 
::::What are you suggesting them? To consider the thing he did in the ova as Uchiha Return? It didn't seem like a defensive move to me, it seemed quite offensive. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 00:57, September 15, 2012 (UTC)
 
:::Yes that's what I'm suggesting. I don't see a difference in how he used it against Naruto rushing him and the group be knocked away. [[User:Arrancar79|Arrancar79]] ([[User talk:Arrancar79|talk]]) 02:11, September 15, 2012 (UTC)
 
::::Against Naruto, he turned the force of his own attack against him. I don't recall any attack being directed at Madara for him to reflect at any opponent, there might have been some shinobing running towards him, but it was Madara who made the first attack. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 02:18, September 15, 2012 (UTC)
 
:::They were both attacking. He swung his fan as they lept at him. Return of Uchiha is a reasonable explanation for what happened, more so than than to attribute a new elemental nature to him and an un-named wind technique IMO. [[User:Arrancar79|Arrancar79]] ([[User talk:Arrancar79|talk]]) 02:43, September 15, 2012 (UTC)
 
::::Just watched the video at youtube again. I guess it could be Uchiha Return, but I find it very odd that the force of reflecting taijutsu and maybe a few blades would cause so much of the vegetation at his feet to bend. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 02:54, September 15, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
Sorry didn't see this when I reverted. I don't believe that the techniques I saw in the ova fight and the one in the manga are the same. They're repelling entirely different things and I'd feel much more comfortable listing him as having Wind Release as opposed to saying it was this technique. [[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 12:30, September 15, 2012 (UTC)
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:There is absolutely no way the picture of Elderly Madara is gonna be used. The picture we have is the closet to an image we've known him throughout the entire manga, not just 2 chapters. So I repeat, there is absolutely no way that picture is gonna be used.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 22:46, January 9, 2014 (UTC)
   
I'm for the Wind Release being kept (there's anime only for a purpose so people know it's not canon) because by your suggestion, it would be much more confusing and shitting on canon as at the time the scene was animated, Return of the Uchiha wasn't yet revealed in the manga so the animators had no idea such things exists--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:39, September 15, 2012 (UTC)
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You don't have the authority to make that decision, Ultimate. I brought up this discussion so that everyone can decide which photo would be best. So far you and Omega have spoken out against it, and I've voiced why I'm for it, so let's see what everyone else thinks. My point still stands, the current photo isn't a living photo of him. The sole reason it was even considered was because we thought that's how he would look after being revived, since his eyes didn't burn out until the next chapter, so whether or not we use his elderly appearance, I don't think the current image is appropriate for the infobox. Those are just my thoughts. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 00:33, January 10, 2014 (UTC)
:I can accept the wind nature but it wouldn't be the first thing to show up in Anime first and then manga. If I remember right, Kishi was involved in those scenes as well but maybe not, either way I digress. :) [[User:Arrancar79|Arrancar79]] ([[User talk:Arrancar79|talk]]) 09:07, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
 
::Kishimoto was not involved in those scenes, any at all. If what was done in the OVA and the manga are supposed to be the same, then that would mean that all those people Madara blew away jumped on his gunbai and all those weapons did so as well. I was thinking about it and Madara waited for Naruto to <u>make contact</u> with the gunbai before using the technique instead of just blowing him out of the air. Which is why I doubt those two instances are the same.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 10:04, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
== Picture ==
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:First, it's '''The'''Ultimate'''3''' and I accept TU3 for short. Second, ain't no way photo of old elderly Madara is gonna be used, especially when that is by far his least notable appearance in the manga/anime/whatever.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 02:16, January 10, 2014 (UTC)
  +
::Third a picture of him alive is preferred, but not when it is completely contradictory to what we have seen him in most of the series. We've seen old man Madara in two chapters. We've seen young, ready to fight Madara for a quarter of the manga. It's not rocket science on which one will be used. And beacuse you made this topic I will give you a hint; it will not be Elderly Madara.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 02:17, January 10, 2014 (UTC)
   
I know this was discussed before, but this really bugs me. Isn't there an adequate and "colored" (the current one is colored but is b&W) picture to put in the infobox?--[[User:Holyn|Holyn]] ([[User talk:Holyn|talk]]) 18:08, September 15, 2012 (UTC)
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Does it matter what I call you? You know I'm talking to you so it matters not. Back on topic.. Old Man Madara is the most recent '''living''' picture of him. We used a photo of adult Nagato after the pain arc even though we technically saw a lot more of him as a child, so I don't exactly buy that argument. In any case I really don't care which photo we use, as long as it isn't a photo where he's reanimated. I'm going strictly by the reason we used it originally, which was that we thought that's how he would look after his true revival. It wasn't, so we should change it back to the old picture from Onoki's flashback or use a photo of him as an old man as a placeholder since it's more recent. I've raised my points and you've raised yours, and unless someone else comments there's no chance of it being changed anyways so let's see where this goes. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 02:59, January 10, 2014 (UTC)
:There is not. At least not to my knowledge.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 10:07, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
== Abilities contradiction ==
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:Yes what I'm called is very important. I don't call you MadaraFan01 do it?
  +
:But seriously the picture of him ''doesn't even look like he was Reincarnated'', the only way you'll know is if you read the manga. And we don't work for just them. We work for the fandom as a whole, and as a whole, adult Madara with red armor is his most iconic appearance. Old Man Madara is not. There is absolutely ''no reason'' to use an image of him at his most obscure, other than my personal president that we use images of them alive.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 03:07, January 10, 2014 (UTC)
   
I noticed a contradiction in the Abilities section. There is on part that says "After activating his Rinnegan and using it in conjunction with his Susanoo", yet in the Rinnegan heading it states "However, it sould be noted that while using the powers granted by one dōjustu he cannot simultaneously access those granted by another." So can he use both the Rinnegan and Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan at the same time or no? {{unsigned|67.233.155.40}}
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::Is there an ''actual'' precedent against edo tensei images? If the anime offers no good living options and, in fact, Madara has spent a majority of his screentime as an edo tensei, what's wrong with using it? When the anime reaches Hashirama's flashbacks then, sure, replace it with a living photo. But in the meantime...? '''''~[[User:Snapper2|Snapper]][[User talk:Snapper2|T]][[Special:Contributions/Snapper2|o]]''''' 03:30, January 10, 2014 (UTC)
   
the latter line is 100% speculative and should be removed... he uses Susanoo with Rinnegan all the time, and it's logical that in order to use Rinnegan powers, he has to activate it, just like a Sharingan can't use MS powers--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 18:46, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
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:::No there isn't. Or at least there shouldn't be. I have just been very vocal in the past about, if available, having a picture of a character alive instead of the cracks and black eyes of Reincarnation. But Madara here shows no visible signs of Reincarnation so even by my old standards, he passes.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 03:32, January 10, 2014 (UTC)
   
Doesn't change the fact that after having the Rinnegan activated, he had to switch to EMS to cast genjutsu at the Raikage. At least some abilities are restrained to each dōjutsu. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 19:06, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
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::::Sort of a convenient misrepresentation, no? Yet it still isn't a particularly good image. Are you going to insist on an inferior picture merely because of some not-actual guideline? I would point out that is in the same boat, where there ''are'' living options, but they aren't used because they are a) bad, and b) he's known better dead anyway.
  +
::::There's also Gari and Pakura, but they've probably got some complicated manga > anime reasoning I wouldn't follow... '''''~[[User:Snapper2|Snapper]][[User talk:Snapper2|T]][[Special:Contributions/Snapper2|o]]''''' 03:48, January 10, 2014 (UTC)
   
Alrighty that clears things up a little [[User:Konoha&#39;sBlackXandXWhiteFlash|Konoha&#39;sBlackXandXWhiteFlash]] ([[User talk:Konoha&#39;sBlackXandXWhiteFlash|talk]]) 02:13, September 17, 2012 (UTC)
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:::::Not sure if you are still speaking to me or Mandon... If it's at me, I just don't want Elder Madara and see no reason to use it.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 03:57, January 10, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Madara gave Nagato ==
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There's a difference. I'm not calling you something obscure that has no relevance to your name. if I call you ultimate you at least know I'm talking to you. It's not a big deal. Anyways, there are plenty of images to use Snapper. In fact, we've used them before we switched to the corrent photo. The greyscaled image of him with his gunbai for example, or the one from Onoki's flashback. And if we're allowed to use Edo Tensei photos, there are plenty of images better than the one we're currently using. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 05:33, January 10, 2014 (UTC)
   
Madara gave Nagato his eyes when Nagato was a kid... So Nagato Possess's the Sharingan and Eternal Mangekyo too. [[Special:Contributions/173.66.119.89|173.66.119.89]] ([[User talk:173.66.119.89|talk]]) 07:21, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
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:I was speaking to TheUltimateMuscle, just in case anyone wanted to know.
:We don't know how it works. From everything we've seen, Nagato only has access to the Rinnegan.--[[Special:Contributions/210.56.81.34|210.56.81.34]] ([[User talk:210.56.81.34|talk]]) 09:33, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
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:My point was that there are currently no good images of living Madara from the anime. He's either too old, too grayscaled, or wearing too much atypical clothing. In the absence of a good living image, I see no reason to not use a good dead image, at least until such time that there is a good living image. '''''~[[User:Snapper2|Snapper]][[User talk:Snapper2|T]][[Special:Contributions/Snapper2|o]]''''' 08:08, January 10, 2014 (UTC)
::Agree with the former. At least wait for the rest of the story.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 09:52, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
Or he just never used it on panel... he probably used it to use genjutsu such as on those ame ninja he put extremely powerful genjutsu blocks in. we don't know either way. [[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] ([[User talk:ItachiWasAHero|talk]]) 10:22, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
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Well if we all come to an agreement that ET images with noticable ET traits like cracks and black sclera are okay, then we can easily snuff out a better image than the one we're currently using. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 09:15, January 10, 2014 (UTC)
:Things like ^that is exactly why we should wait. We don't have to be piecing anything together, Kishimoto is telling us the story, for now, we make mention what was said in the manga and leave it at that...--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 10:30, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
Didn't Madara say he left his real eyes with someone else? When Obito was posing as him he told Konan "I gave Nagato the Rinnegan." That's evidence enough, IMO. And as for Nagato not possessing the Sharingan, Kakashi can't shut his Sharingan off because he's not an Uchiha, so it stands to reason Nagato can't shut the Rinnegan off either. At least this chapter confirms Madara created Zetsu. [[Special:Contributions/207.216.193.120|207.216.193.120]] ([[User talk:207.216.193.120|talk]]) 12:29, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
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:Not sure if it's still relevant, but to answer your question about why Gari and Pakura images, pictures of them Reincarnated was chosen because the only not-Reincarnated pictures that exist for them is Anime-Only, and everyone should be well aware by now how much that is a buzz-word around here.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 12:31, January 10, 2014 (UTC)
   
why, any user can't wait for a few more weeks to get more Information? --[[User:MaskedManMadara|MaskedManMadara]] ([[User talk:MaskedManMadara|talk]]) 16:51, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
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Why can't we make a compromise??? Do people have to be so stubborn and egocentric? Can someone explain why can't we use both manga and anime images? In my opinion that would be the best, with manga image of his current revived status and anime image of his last recent living appearance, which would be (fortunately not to Ulti's delight) the grandpa one--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:43, January 10, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Loss of power ==
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:The issue is convoluted and stupid (and yes I am talking about myself too). Some don't want anime images at all if a manga one exists, some what uniform consistency, some has followed through with the manga and anime depictions but then the problem comes how do you incorporate that with every character, then the whole Part I and Part II thing passed. Then you add this one where really come on, Grandpa Madara is in no way iconic enough for an image, but based on the very unofficial rule I myself championed would/could be used and here is the discussion.
  +
:It's really a big mess.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 20:30, January 10, 2014 (UTC)
   
What proof has their been that Madara had lost any of his powers in his old age. Chapter 602 points more to not being able to use them due to not having two Sharingan and because of dwindled chakra reserves rather than actually having lost them. What Tobi has never been proven. It was just his statement and was probably something he said to make his story about being Madara and resorting to that method sound believable. But there has never been any proof backing him up. The Fox King([[User:The Fox King|tylerbryant547@gmail.com]] ([[User talk:The Fox King|talk]]) 17:50, September 19, 2012 (UTC))
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Is there any reason why we can't just use tabs for Madara like the infobox for Obito? Also, Elve has a point, I think manga images could and should be appropriate under special circumstances. If you could take a minute to go to the One Piece Wikia and look at the infoboxes for each character, you'll see that they use both manga and anime images in separate tabs on both the pre-timeskip and post-timeskip sections in said box. So like, say a character that appeared in the first half appears in the second half, then a manga image is used until an anime photo comes along, and even then both images are still there to view. Obviously both our wiki and theirs have completely different code so I'm not sure how that would work, but it's something to consider. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 00:28, January 11, 2014 (UTC)
:That statement was already changed...--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]]18:01, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
Yes, I just saw. Sorry. The Fox King([[User:The Fox King|tylerbryant547@gmail.com]] ([[User talk:The Fox King|talk]]) 18:08, September 19, 2012 (UTC))
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:There is no reason to not use tabs for Madara, but on the same token there is barely a reason we do use tabs on Tobi. In terms of sticking four images in the infobox, I don't know if our infoboxes are even designed to do that. It's possible, but we had to wait like half a year to get a functional two tab thing working and I don't know if it works beyond that.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 00:38, January 11, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Nagato ==
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We could just do an "Alive" and "Reincarnated" thing for the infobox. We don't need 4 tabs for that. EDIT -- But then there's the question of whether or not there's a real point in using multiple tabs. If edo tensei images are acceptable, and he already appears with his iconic look, then I don't really see a reason to care.. to be perfectly honest. Preferably an image that shows him at a better angle would be more ideal but that's just me. --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 01:25, January 11, 2014 (UTC)
   
Madara said he entrusted his eyes to someone else!!!!!!! Could it be nagato? I mean, it's all there. He said he awakened his Rinnegan shortly before his death, and gave it to nagato. Someone please comment, or at least say it's likely.--[[Special:Contributions/24.166.174.117|24.166.174.117]] ([[User talk:24.166.174.117|talk]]) 20:24, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
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Alive and reincarnated have barely any differences. superficial at best so that would not make sense. And It'll have to suffice until more usable living!Madara images are available.
: [[#Madara gave Nagato]]. --[[User:Aged Goblin|<font size="4"><span style='color: Goblin'><font face="Old English Text MT">'''''The Goblin'''''</font></span></font>]] 20:30, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
== Gedo Mazo life support system beginning ==
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''"Old Man Madara is the most recent '''living''' picture of him. We used a photo of adult Nagato after the pain arc even though we technically saw a lot more of him as a child"''-exactly. We use current in series pictures if available. adult Nagato=not a flashback. Old Madara=flashback.
   
Why should we say in Madara's article that he was on the Gedo Mazo from the time he sustained the injuries in the last fight with Hashirama until he died when he himself has not said he was and we don't know that he was? The Fox King([[User:The Fox King|tylerbryant547@gmail.com]] ([[User talk:The Fox King|talk]]) 22:46, September 20, 2012 (UTC))
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"Sort of a convenient misrepresentation, no?"- well its what works best. If you notice Hanzo has a similar situation. the anime fucked up and gave him normal eyes, so instead of having both anime/manga images, we use one of ET Hanzo because in canon he has dark sclera so it works.--[[User:RexGodwin|RexGodwin]] ([[User talk:RexGodwin|talk]]) 11:49, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
:The "Mazou" that he mentions isn't the Gedo Mazo, but [[Hashirama's Living Clone]] and that term (mazou) means statue --[[User:MaskedManMadara|MaskedManMadara]] ([[User talk:MaskedManMadara|talk]]) 18:25, September 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
::The Mazō is there in the image of him announcing himself to Obito. You have to strain your eyes because of the scans but the statue is there sitting in the yet-to-be fully-opened flower. If Madara had meant Hashirama's Living Clone he would have referred to it as what he did when he told Obito that he had used it to reconstruct his body; that clone isn't a statue.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 18:31, September 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
:::oh, yeah? I don't know it, I think it to be a statue O_O. but thanks Cerez365, is more things that I know now. [[User:MaskedManMadara|MaskedManMadara]] ([[User talk:MaskedManMadara|talk]]) 18:48, September 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
Why does it say that his injuries from his last fight with Hashirama caused him to have to be on the statue from that point till death when that can't be? He'd need the Rinnegan, which he didn't have then, to summon it and make use of that chakra and he himself didn't say he had been on the Mazo since that last fight. Why should the article say that as though it were a fact that he was? The Fox King([[User:The Fox King|tylerbryant547@gmail.com]] ([[User talk:The Fox King|talk]]) 23:32, September 21, 2012 (UTC))
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==Did Anyone Notice?==
  +
Did anyone notice two of the following things:
  +
*Madara was able to go into sage mode after absorbing Hashirama's chakra, but Hashirama himself wasn't in sage mode
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*Madara bit his arm, causing it to bleed, to manipulate the rods in Hashi's back upon his resurrection.--[[File: Senju_Symbol.svg|20px]]'''KotoSenju''' ''('''OldUser:'''JaZZBaND)''-[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|Contributions]] 04:03, January 14, 2014 (UTC)
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:Really? I haven't had an idea why did he bite his arm all along.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:51, January 14, 2014 (UTC)
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::Well, you can see Hashirama's senjutsu chakra flowing from Hashi's body to Madara's through the wound Madara caused on himself by biting his left arm.--[[User:JOA20|JOA20]] ([[User talk:JOA20|talk]]) 12:59, January 14, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Yea, but is it significant, and how did he access Hashi's senjutsu, if he wasnt in sage mode? He wasnt even gathering any at all in their fight.--[[File: Senju_Symbol.svg|20px]]'''KotoSenju''' ''('''OldUser:'''JaZZBaND)''-[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|Contributions]] 15:07, January 14, 2014 (UTC)
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::::There were these clones of Naruto that despite being used to gather senjutsu chakra to allow the original body to re-enter Sage Mode didn't have the Sage Mode markings. And Hashirama was still for some moments, enough in my humble opinion to gain enough senjutsu chakra for Madara.--[[User:JOA20|JOA20]] ([[User talk:JOA20|talk]]) 15:27, January 14, 2014 (UTC)
   
That's a speculation and should be removed... not to mention that would make it more than 40 years he was trapped underground.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:48, September 21, 2012 (UTC)
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==Hear Me Out==
  +
Ok, so i'm trying to edit Madara's article according to what occurred in today's chapter. I want to exercise these points, but seeing as there is much stress over what goes in/out Madara's page, i want to run by you guys first. I mean, one slip up and you're called a "Madara Fanboy".(haha!) Here we go:
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*Madara's Susano'o shield (mabye make into a seprete ''unnamed technique''?
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*Madara's reflexes to avoid Tobirama's Hiraishin (twice?)
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*TELEKINESIS!!!!?
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*And his ability to just outright rip the tailed beat right out of both Naruto and Bee.--[[File: Senju_Symbol.svg|20px]]'''KotoSenju''' ''('''OldUser:'''JaZZBaND)''-[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|Contributions]] 14:12, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
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:*No.
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:*Yes.
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:*No!
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:*Yeah, drop the beat! No, he just took less longer than Obito did. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 14:15, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
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WOW!! That made me laugh out loud, haha. But a few Q's that need A's.
  +
No to making the Susano'o shield a separate tech? and are we still discussing the "levitation" to be a probable unnamed Rinnegan tech?--[[File: Senju_Symbol.svg|20px]]'''KotoSenju''' ''('''OldUser:'''JaZZBaND)''-[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|Contributions]] 14:20, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
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:Yes to no and no, that's conclusion-jumping and we don't do that here. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 14:26, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
   
  +
The shield is no different in my opinion that a ribcage manifestation, a pic for the variant would be nice tho--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 14:29, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
   
He could'nt have been on the mazou life support (oh i love to say that) from Hashirama's victory t'ill Obito wound up in his underground passageway. Because he would have needed to give that "person" (most likely Nagato) his eyes (most likely the rinnegan), and he was alive for decades and decades after his suppossed defeat, so i'd think that he was incredibley old by that point.[[Special:Contributions/98.26.240.62|98.26.240.62]] ([[User talk:98.26.240.62|talk]]) 00:02, September 22, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan
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Either way, I strive to only make appropriate edits. So ill get to it. Revision of my edit would be helpful.--[[File: Senju_Symbol.svg|20px]]'''KotoSenju''' ''('''OldUser:'''JaZZBaND)''-[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|Contributions]] 14:34, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
   
No man. Madara walked away from the fight and then lived a healthy and happy life. Sewed some wild oats (hence we have Nagato and Rasputia Uchiha) and then contracted cancer in his old age. What we saw there was just chemotherapy with primitive machinery... That's definitely what happened.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 11:50, September 22, 2012 (UTC)
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== The paralyzing air. ==
   
Why that sarcasm? Read above, in the case he was there since Hashirama "defeat" that would make it more than 40 years, not to mention he likely met Yahiko and Nagato.... hard to believe their meeting was underground--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:31, September 22, 2012 (UTC)
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Hi everyone, wanna ask a question. In the last chapter, didn't Madara seems or can we assumed the he used Banchou Tenin? THANKYOU [[User:Small brother|Small brother]] ([[User talk:Small brother|talk]]) 20:09, January 17, 2014 (UTC)
   
:Because there's no other way to respond to this. Madara's article is being edited to say he went on live a long life, through three wars (because he participated in them ~_~) as if he got up from the fight with Hashirama and was fine and dandy, and then contracted a disease in his old age and had to go on life support which is rubbish. Tobi told us that the fight left him a shell of his former self not because he was making excuses for only using Kamui but because it did in fact leave him a shell; unless I'm reading another manga. I've said it before but nothing Tobi has said so far has been a lie. He's only ever omitted the truth. I understand that people love Madara but there's nothing to it but to accept the fact that Hashirama crippled him severely and he lived out the rest of his life in a hole.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 14:40, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
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:Didn't function like Basnsho Ten'in. Bansho Ten'in pulls the target towards the user. Madara stopped Sasuke while he was jumping at him and held him there.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 20:15, January 17, 2014 (UTC)
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::It's obvious Nagato didn't show us everything the Rinnegan has to offer. After all, the eyes are Madara's or rather Izuna's ._. Well, you get it. For all we know, each Path has 5 or more techniques, making it even more overpowered than already is when used to its fullest extent--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:11, January 17, 2014 (UTC)
   
That's right, Obito never really lied. "I, Uchiha Madara" didn't have anything to do with Kurama attacking Konoha ;)
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Then, we could assume that come from the Rinnegan? I'm not so sure, but Madara was looking at Sasuke when it happened. Like the Rinbou Hingoku, but not sure. THANKYOU [[User:Small brother|Small brother]] ([[User talk:Small brother|talk]]) 08:39, January 18, 2014 (UTC)
Now you mention it, it's a possibility... could explain that "hell" and "ghost of Uchiha Madara" parts. He "lived" there since then and considered himself as dead.
 
Poor Madara 0_0--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:09, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
The Fading into obscurity thing I put in there is there to say that he was never seen or heard from again. What I wrote is there to say he lived through them, not that he fought them. He did get stronger, shown in everything he has now for the sake of his Eye of the Moon plan. The reason he was on the Gedo when he was old isn't known. Could have been because he was too old and needed it, even with Hashirama's cells. He was was over 100 The Fox King([[User:The Fox King|tylerbryant547@gmail.com]] ([[User talk:The Fox King|talk]]) 15:13, September 23, 2012 (UTC))
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== Fighting Sasuke Blind ==
   
:<sup>'''''editconflict'''''</sup> If people consider Obito calling himself Madara simply a "lie" then they are reading the story too one dimensionally. I don't understand how people can think that someone could walk out of a fight unscathed in a battle that essentially created an entire valley and another nation.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 15:20, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
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Hi there. I know everyone has been trying very hard to trim down Madara's page, but I had one small piece of information that I think should be added to Madara's Taijutus section. It is worth mentioning that in Chapter 657 he was capable of fighting Sasuke (who was armed with his sword and Mangekyo Shiringan) to a standstill even though Madara was completely blind at the time. --[[User:Raizerninja|Raizerninja]] ([[User talk:Raizerninja|talk]]) 00:34, January 23, 2014 (UTC)
  +
:Sort of mentioned already, indirectly, in the ninjutsu section, where his sensing is mentioned. The reason why he was able to do it blind is because sensing made up for it. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 00:52, January 23, 2014 (UTC)
   
Not to mention we saw him pierced by a sword, and Hashirama barely survived with his "self-healing no jutsu" looked at it through Cerez's way, makes more sense (even if cruel, but this manga isn't about ponies) than him surviving, living happily after, manipulating from shadows for so long and then getting crippled--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:28, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
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== Rinbo: Hengoku is Deva Path ==
   
Nobody is saying he got out of the fight unscathed, just that it was never really proven that he was just a shell of his former self. His injuries and all were severe yes, but with the way he could treat Obito's wounds and save him with Hashirama's cells, is it really reasonable to think that he couldn't do the same to himself? Not to mention, he was nowhere near where he was when he was on the Gedo when he last fought Hashirama and lost. He may have been wounded terribly, but he got stronger. No one is saying it was easy. It was probably very hard and took him a very long time. Think also about the fact that he had Hashirama's cells and that they, given Tsunade's testament to Tobi's possession of them, Madara might haven been able to extend his life by harvesting them and allowing him to train and learn how to use his Wood Release like he can. The reason he needed to go on the Gedo is unexplained. It may have been because of dwindled chakra reserves or some kind of genetic malfunction with Hashirama's DNA that was making him weaker rather than helping him maintain his training and preparation for future plans. To state something we don't know as a fact, such as being a shell of his former self, and present it as a fact is speculation and unnecessary. The Fox King([[User:The Fox King|tylerbryant547@gmail.com]] ([[User talk:The Fox King|talk]]) 15:38, September 23, 2012 (UTC))
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Rinbo: Hengoku is Deva Path. It can repel which is exactly one of the main abilities of the Deva Path. Remember the Deva Path includes repelling and attracting as its abilities. I don't see how it's speculative to say Rinbo: Hengoku is Deva Path. Is obvious Rinbo: Hengoku is a Deva Path jutsu since it repels. This is enough evidence so say Rinbo: Hengoku is Deva Path.--[[User:Rinneganmaster|Rinneganmaster]] ([[User talk:Rinneganmaster|talk]]) 04:01, January 26, 2014 (UTC)
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:What if it's a technique that sends some kind of invisible chakra punch? Like taijutsu, but even faster and with chakra? [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 04:22, January 26, 2014 (UTC)
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It's already stated in the Rinbo: Hengoku article that Rinbo: Hengoku has an invisible force that is powerful enough to repel the tailed beasts so is not a chakra punch. This shows Rinbo: Hengoku has a repulsive force. Also Deva Path is stated to have attractive and repulsive forces. Based on this Rinbo: Hengoku's parent jutsu is Deva Path since it has a repulsive force similar to Shinra Tensei.--[[User:Rinneganmaster|Rinneganmaster]] ([[User talk:Rinneganmaster|talk]]) 05:04, January 26, 2014 (UTC)
   
:All of that however, is speculation based on things that was never seen. What we do know:
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You do realize that chakra is usually invisible, right? Now, sure it's likely it is a Deva Path technique. But the wiki finds it best to keep out speculation, which is what this is, really. [[User:Skitts|Skitts]] ([[User talk:Skitts|talk]]) 07:59, January 26, 2014 (UTC)
*Hashirama and Madara fought.
 
*Madara lost.
 
*Madara survived and became a shell of his former self.
 
*Madara used that battle to gather the Firsts' cells.
 
*Madara is attached to a giant statue covered in Zetsu's which were built with First cells.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 17:42, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
Madara did not become a shell of his former self as far as fact goes. We don't know that he did. The Fox King([[User:The Fox King|tylerbryant547@gmail.com]] ([[User talk:The Fox King|talk]]) 19:35, September 23, 2012 (UTC))
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Even though its invisible it is still agreeable that it has a repulsive force. Considering the fact it was used by the rinnegan and it has a repulsive force, Rinbo: Hengoku is a Deva Path for sure. Its not speculation if it clearly demonstrates one of the main abilities of the parent jutsu.--[[User:Rinneganmaster|Rinneganmaster]] ([[User talk:Rinneganmaster|talk]]) 19:33, January 26, 2014 (UTC)
   
But we work only with facts, we know these things:
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== Missing Tools? ==
* he got pierced by Hashirama's sword, and "died" not to mention he sure had many more wounds... how he survived is unknown now.
 
* became a shell of his former self
 
* gedo life support
 
There's no incident in between, so unless more information is provided, Hashi battle made him what he was in chapter 602
 
--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:52, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
Thats no fact. He didn't become a shell of his former self. Tobi said that, not him and it stands to reason that since he is weaker than Madara, which he factually admitted, then he say something like that to get others to believe what he said about being Madara was true. He himself has not stated that or in any way implied it. He was no shell of his former self factually because he only got stronger after losing at the Valley of the End, not weaker. Everything else you said was true, but that wasn't. Be realistic. The Fox King([[User:The Fox King|tylerbryant547@gmail.com]] ([[User talk:The Fox King|talk]]) 21:39, September 23, 2012 (UTC))
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I think their are some tools and weapons that are missing, and that should be added, such as the shakujo, and the chakra receivers are some of the weapons that are missing, how about adding that, it makes sense since he used them in his most recent battle in the war. Another thing worth mentioning is partners shouldn't it include Izuna, Spiral Zetsu and Zetsu.?--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 20:19, February 5, 2014 (UTC)
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:Could you please properly format your text instead of making it look like a ransom note made of newspaper articles? About your questions, no. Chakra receiver was long changed to a jutsu page regarding how they come to be instead of having several different tool variations. He's not yielding an actual shakujo, he's just making the chakra take the form of one. Obito isn't listed as using them either. Unless they give that an actual name and call it an actual tool, like the did with Sword of Nunoboko, that doesn't happen. In the context of two-men teams, Madara was not partnered with any of those. With Izuna, he was alongside his entire clan, Zetsu clones aren't partners to him, their minions. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 22:34, February 5, 2014 (UTC)
   
Be realistic? This is a damn manga, you know right? You are speculating too much, your "sense and logic" aren't above information provided... you can't simply arrange it the way you want. What we know is listed, the end.
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== Missing another unique ability? ==
EDIT: Itachi said the same about shell thing, also how is being connected to a flower in order to survive considered as getting stronger?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:21, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
He wasn't connected to the Gedo for all those years after losing and Itachi, just like Nagato, knew Tobi and believed that he was Madara and Tobi is weaker than Madara. Hes admitted that. The reason he, not Madara, would probably have said such a thing was so others, like Itachi, Nagato, and the five Kage, would believe that thats who he was and why he would resort to a plan like that. Onoki questioned that himself. In everything that has been seen of Madara himself, nothing has said or shown that he became a shell of his former self after he lost that last battle with Hashirama. Thats a fact. I'm not speculating, you are. In all that we saw of Madara's past when Tobi was telling Sasuke about everything that happened with Madara, he did not mention, imply, or even contemplate to himself that Madara was just a shell of his former self. The fact that he made that statement to the five Kage without us seeing any proof it was true opens a possibility that what he said was just a lie to make his story sound believable. He spent all those decades training with the Wood Release and mastered it so powerfully. He was also able to awaken the Rinnegan. Whenever he did so, it was after that battle and therefore, he got stronger period after it. The Fox King([[User:The Fox King|tylerbryant547@gmail.com]] ([[User talk:The Fox King|talk]]) 22:50, September 23, 2012 (UTC))
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I think he is missing another unique ability that he possesses and shares with both Zetsu and Spiral Zetsu, namely his ability to telepathic communicate with both of the former characters. So is it worth mentioning?--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 20:38, February 5, 2014 (UTC)
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:No, because he's never done it. Stop trying to hype Madara with every edit. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 22:34, February 5, 2014 (UTC)
   
:But here is the thing: Where do you assume this? Everything Tobi and Itachi has said about Madara was correct, based on what we have '''seen'''. You are just assuming he walked out of that battle and got god mode somehow. That is not how we were told, and not how we've seen.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 23:07, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
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I am just trying my best to contribute not to hype him up. That's all.--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 22:48, February 8, 2014 (UTC)
   
Correction, we have not seen that Madara was just a shell of his former self after losing that last battle and only most of what Tobi and Itachi said was shown to be true. Not everything. Saying he was just a shell of his former self after that battle when it was never shown that he was was just words. Nothing backing it up. The only thing we have seen about him losing to Hashirama is that he was severely wounded, which doesn't prove that was a shell of what he was before losing that battle, only that he lost and survived it. Neither Itachi nor Tobi's statements about that have been proven true. Thats a fact. The Fox King([[User:The Fox King|tylerbryant547@gmail.com]] ([[User talk:The Fox King|talk]]) 23:30, September 23, 2012 (UTC))
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He has done, it and in fact he did it to black zetsu, he told black zetsu telepathically that he was going to play with the 5 kages a little longer before he set out on the plan, and he told black zetsu what to do for the plan.. all via telepathic link to one another. [[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] ([[User talk:ItachiWasAHero|talk]]) 11:46, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
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:Yet again, every Zetsu can talk to each other via telepathy. I think that's just a common thing that comes with them, just as they don't need food or water. I guess Madara can communicate with Black Zetsu because it's basically a copy of himself (compare Yamato and his Wood Clone, they can do such things too). [[User:Idontcareaboutmyname|Idontcareaboutmyname]] ([[User talk:Idontcareaboutmyname|talk]]) 12:08, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Mentioning a chapter would be useful. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 15:03, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
   
It doesn't really make sense we argue out this point. It is true that we only know bits and pieces that have yet to be glued together of what happened after the battle at the valley of the end and Madara finding Obito, but I would however be really shocked if that battle and Madara's state aren't '''directly''' related. Any way, as long as the information remains how it is (or at least how I last remember it being) for now, it's enough for me.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 23:52, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
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I don't think it is general telepathy, only telepathy to his will, black zetsu. I don't remember chapter number but
   
My point exactly Cerez. It has so far no been shown that he was a shell of his former self after losing that battle or that he was on that Mazo from the time he lost till he died. Next chapter may change some or all of that., but as it stands right now, none of that is fact. The Fox King([[User:The Fox King|tylerbryant547@gmail.com]] ([[User talk:The Fox King|talk]]) 00:11, September 24, 2012 (UTC))
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http://naruto.answers.wikia.com/wiki/What_is_Madara's_trump_card
   
== "awakened Rinnegan before death" ==
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This talks about the chapter basically. [[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] ([[User talk:ItachiWasAHero|talk]]) 21:55, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
   
I'm pretty sure he wasn't referring to him dying after the 3rd SWW, but before being "killed" by Hashirama, as he considered himself to be dead afterwards.
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:Still needing something more specific. Madara versus the Five Kage spanned across three or four volumes. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 22:18, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
He gave his eyes to Nagato decades before, and had only a spare ordinary Sharingan by the time he met Obito. Not to mention he wouldn't have such mastery over it if it was by his old age. Should be reworded in my opinion--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:25, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
Madara came out and stated that he awakened it shortly before his death. Doubt that mean't decades and until he says what he meant about leaving his real eyes with someone else, we can only speculate that subject. The Fox King([[User:The Fox King|tylerbryant547@gmail.com]] ([[User talk:The Fox King|talk]]) 15:51, September 23, 2012 (UTC))
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::[http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Zetsu?diff=835883&oldid=835704] '''''~[[User:Snapper2|Snapper]][[User talk:Snapper2|T]][[Special:Contributions/Snapper2|o]]''''' 22:28, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
   
It is impossible, at this point in time, to determine which "death" Madara was referring to. However, implications seem to be hinting it was the former...the one at the Valley of the End. There are two things supporting this, one of which is evidence: firstly, we have to consider the fact that Madara, having just been resurrected by Edo Tensei, would have had no idea how much his summoner knew with regards to his life. Thus, he would attempt to disclose the least amount of information possible. An example of this is found in chapter 561, where Madara asks Kabuto how much he knows: during the entirety of his explanation, he remains silent. It's obvious he isn't intent on revealing anything about his life and death. So why ''wouldn't'' he make a vague statement that can be interpreted in one of two ways, especially given the fact that Kabuto knows more than the average individual (his extra knowledge would actually be a detriment in this situation, as it only confuses the situation further)? To the rest of the world, Madara died at Hashirama's hand over 60 years ago. Why not continue to uphold that falsity? It wouldn't be in Madara's best interests to reveal conflicting information.
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That ^ solved it, chapter 657 page 10 [[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] ([[User talk:ItachiWasAHero|talk]]) 22:31, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
   
Secondly, Madara clearly says in chapter 602 that he left his real eyes to someone else. That "someone else" is obviously Nagato, and it is evidence against Madara's statement being a reference to his true death. I will explain why: at this point, Nagato having the Rinnegan is due to one of two reasons: either Madara transplanted his Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan into Nagato, whose Uzumaki blood caused the eyes to progress to their final stage, or Madara directly gave Nagato the Rinnegan, already having completed the last step with Hashirama's Senju DNA. Based off these two scenarios, it would be impossible for Madara to have awakened the Rinnegan (possibly ''again'') before his real death because he would have needed a new EMS to get to that final stage. What are the odds of that happening? Infinitesimally low. Not just because of the difficulty of the procedure, but because Madara was missing a right eye in this latest chapter.
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Ok, so Madara spoke telepathically, but only with Black Zetsu, not Zetsu in general, as it was claimed in the beginning of this article. Probably something to do with BZ being part of his will. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 22:43, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
   
Now, you may be asking how Kabuto managed to modify Madara back to his prime form, with enhancements such as the Rinnegan, that he gave away years before dying (Edo Tensei supposedly works by resurrecting the person as they were moments before death): the truth is, I have no idea. There's obviously something bigger going on here. But at this stage in the game, it's not unlikely to think that Madara was talking about his "death" at VoTE, especially given his words this chapter: "ghost of the Uchiha."
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Absorbing Chakra isn't a unique trait. Several other shinobis have been capable of it. Unique means no one else is capable of it.[[User:Cloudtheavenger|Cloudtheavenger]] ([[User talk:Cloudtheavenger|talk]]) 07:46, March 20, 2014 (UTC)
[[Special:Contributions/68.119.138.242|68.119.138.242]] ([[User talk:68.119.138.242|talk]]) 19:09, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
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:: Unique can mean unusual or rare, he is one of only a few characters that has the ability to absorb chakra without needing to use a special technique to do it.[[User:TricksterKing|TricksterKing]] ([[User talk:TricksterKing|talk]]) 02:10, March 22, 2014 (UTC)
   
Not to mention that would make 2 pairs of Rinnegan eyes, obviously, besides Sage's, there has been only one other pair--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:20, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
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Madara was able to use Susanoo without using his Rinnegan. What's to say he can't use the Preta Path without the Rinnegan as well?[[User:Cloudtheavenger|Cloudtheavenger]] ([[User talk:Cloudtheavenger|talk]]) 21:11, March 23, 2014 (UTC)
   
Thats what I said as far as his death goes, however, it has yet to be seen what he mean't and we can't be sure he mean't Nagato until chapter 603 is out. Only then can we know that as a fact. Also, just because he gave away his eyes, doesn't mean he lost the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan dojutsu, or the Rinnegan if he had awakened before giving his eyes away. Its a kekkei genkai. Its in his blood. His genetics and works through his eyes, not just within the eyes themselves. He also said he couldn't awaken the full potential of his eyes without two, which the full potential to him would be everything he achieved. Think about that. The Fox King([[User:The Fox King|tylerbryant547@gmail.com]] ([[User talk:The Fox King|talk]]) 21:46, September 23, 2012 (UTC))
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== Introduction? ==
   
I don't see a reason to doubt that... these are facts:
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I don't really understand what's so harmful about detailing certain facts about him in the intro. We do this with every single article for a character but all of a sudden it's clutter to mention that Madara's a Jinchuriki? Might as well do the same for the rest of them (Naruto, B, Roshi, etc) --[[User:M4ND0N|Mandon]] ([[User talk:M4ND0N|talk]]) 07:44, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
* Madara and Nagato knew each other
 
* Tobi claimed that "I Madara" did give Nagato the Rinnegan
 
* Madara assumes Nagato revived him with Rinne Tensei no jutsu
 
* Madara confirms he gave his eyes to someone
 
   
The way it's worded now sounds like he produced 2 pairs of Rinnegan eyes in his lifetime, should be changed to: "Shortly before being presumed to have been killed by Hashirama in their final confrontation at a place later to be known as Valley of The End, Madara awakened his Rinnegan"--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:19, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
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:The introduction is supposed to be a brief introduction of the character, leading into the article. For a lot of characters (Notable offenders in my mind is Tobi, Madara, and Kurama) where their intro because a place where their entire background section and current chapter status had been stuffed. That is bad. If anything the introductions should have been made in a way that they could remain static forever, not changing at the whim of the newest chapter.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 11:21, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
   
Indeed it should should it be revealed to have been that way in the next chapter when we hopefully find out for sure what he mean't. The Fox king([[User:The Fox King|tylerbryant547@gmail.com]] ([[User talk:The Fox King|talk]]) 22:41, September 23, 2012 (UTC))
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:That's a ridiculous argument. Naruto, B, etc. have been jinchuriki since the day they appeared, and as such being a jinchuriki is fundamental to their characters. Madara's been a jinchuriki for two chapters. Zero similarity. '''''~[[User:Snapper2|Snapper]][[User talk:Snapper2|T]][[Special:Contributions/Snapper2|o]]''''' 16:56, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Second Rikudou ==
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== he is 179cm not 182cm ==
   
I thought it to be clear that Madara is such, not Obito.
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Where is the proof for 182cm?? I am changing it back to 179 until databook, manga, or author himself give a number differing than 179 [[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] ([[User talk:ItachiWasAHero|talk]]) 11:49, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
Everything Tobi/Obito did say under "I, Madara" has been under this guy's name and were his actions/deeds.
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:You could check the edit history of the infobox and ask the person who changed it directly. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 15:03, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
Nagato's Rinnegan couldn't have given by Obito, clearly.
 
Also Madara did awake Rinnegan, not Obito, thus the title belong to him--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 04:33, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
:I think we're simply waiting for something more clear-cut than the "Tobi said it as Madara" bid.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 11:47, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
It's obviously obvious... doubting Obito's "Madara" statements is paranoid at this point.
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== Summoning: Shinju? ==
* Obito wasn't alive when Nagato got Rinnegan
 
* Kabuto compared Madara's power to be a fragment of that of So6p
 
* Madara did awake the Rinnegan, making him "another Sage"
 
* There's no reason for Obito to be 2nd Rikudou, eye/name/title thief suits him better
 
* Same goes for Madara being the Akatsuki's creator, my topic got ignored completely
 
--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:04, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
I never said it was doubted, nor is anyone being paranoid. Just that the general consensus I got on this matter(s) is that we wait...--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 17:12, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
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Is this also worth adding that he had summoned the [[Ten-Tailed Beast]] to his list of techniques alongside [[Sage Mode]]? Just wondering is all.--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 02:47, February 13, 2014 (UTC)
   
I think we've waited long enough, this latest chapter confirmed all the things tobi said he's done under Madara's name was done by Madara... no point in waiting any longer, we're not going to get much more than that.[[User:MangekyoSasuke|MangekyoSasuke]] ([[User talk:MangekyoSasuke|talk]]) 04:41, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
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:Are we sure that was summoning and not the Gedo Mazo disappearing and Ten-Tails reappearing as part of its transformation? It seems to have disappeared out of the Uchiha Flame Formation last time it transformed.--[[User:BeyondRed|BeyondRed]] ([[User talk:BeyondRed|talk]]) 05:43, February 13, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Izanagi and Yin-Yang Release. ==
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Gedo Mazo/Shinju are one and the same entity, all Rinnegan users can summon it.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:07, February 13, 2014 (UTC)
   
As we saw as of chapter 606, it was indeed Madara who tutored Obito into all those powerful dojutsu such as Izanagi...now in regards to the Yin-Yang style, i'm in the wind in as to his application of it...namely the creation of Black Zetsu and his explanation to his creation of the chakra rods as an physical aplication of his ''will''. Now my question is...should be named as an Izanagi user and should his Yin-Yang use be stated? [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 12:04, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
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== Lightning Element ==
:Another detail is the fact that Madara reffered to the various White Zetsu's as being created by the Yin-Yang powers...soo, any opinions? [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 12:53, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
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Surely Madara should be attributed all elements? He has the Rinnegan and knows every other jutsu out there. The Rinnegan allowed Nagato to master all elements. It's all but been demonstrated that Madara has command of all elements.--[[User:Reliops|Reliops]] ([[User talk:Reliops|talk]]) 00:43, February 16, 2014 (UTC)
  +
: Madara's natural aptitude for ninjutsu may be similar to Hiruzen's and his possession of the Rinnegan certainly give him the "potential" to use all five elements, but that doesn't mean Madara has actually bothered to learn it. Steveo920, 19:50, February 15, 2014
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::Yes. Nagato is only listed as having them all because were told he learned them all. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 00:57, February 16, 2014 (UTC)
   
He clearly could/can use Izanagi and taught Obito the technique--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 16:06, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
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==TRimming down==
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He have won thanks to the throne on performance and strength phenomenal, in many cases, can be seen well, why did you not understand is I do not want to pay tribute? {{Unsigned|Iloveinoxxx|01:16, February 16, 2014 (UTC)}}
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:Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 01:23, February 16, 2014 (UTC)
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::I have no idea what the OP is trying to say. Now, I usually try to keep the article from getting bloated from new info. Still feel like Madara's article is bigger than it should be though. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 01:27, February 16, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Madara's are not bloathed It is not the complete opposite it will be thorough. Or Seelentau, what is OP and mean what you?
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{{Unsigned|Iloveinoxxx|10:18, February 16, 2014 (UTC)}}
   
:Or he can use it in principle and taught it to Obito, in principle? Information about him using Yin Yang Release has been added to his article.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 16:08, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
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What the...? ._.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 14:21, February 16, 2014 (UTC)
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:: (- _-) I will not stand for his trolling behaviour.--'''NaviiGator''' ''('''A.K.A.'''KotoSenju)''-[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|Contributions]] 18:14, February 16, 2014 (UTC)
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Why am I assuming your trolling am you are you in the world? If you do not understand, once again, read my question! By the way, I am a girl{{Unsigned|Iloveinoxxx|18:29, February 16, 2014 (UTC)}}
   
He taught him Uchiha Kinjutsu, not to mention don't tell me Obito found out about Izanagi himself--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 16:13, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
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:::Oh this article is very bloated, and it is way bigger than it needs to be. I tried trimming it though, and the results were all reverted with small token removals. Honestly this article is just gonna be stupid big for no reason and there is very little that can be done with it.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 20:44, February 16, 2014 (UTC)
:By principle to teach a technique in an efficient manner as seen with Obito, the teacher (Madara) should have first hand experience in using said technique. You can't teach a complex technique like that and not have mastered said technique. Besides Madara is known for his extensive knowledge and use of these complex techniques. Now what about his creation of Black Zetsu? Does that qualify as Yin-Yang as well? [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 16:27, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
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::::Not quite. True, some users have a fixation with bloating this article through numerous small edits, but I usually revert those edits, since they only add more of the same, which this article doesn't need. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 16:21, February 17, 2014 (UTC)
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You guys do not understand, he is the strongest character and best, therefore, why, you need to have it does not explain everything, the best, the article of the largest he?[[User:Iloveinoxxx|Iloveinoxxx]] ([[User talk:Iloveinoxxx|talk]]) 14:18, February 18, 2014 (UTC)
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:I fear I may start disregarding your opinion on matters ILoveInoXXX. If for no other reason then how you stated why he should have a bloated article...--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 14:55, February 18, 2014 (UTC)
   
The fact that him is listed as a Izanagi user is because of his genjutsu or because he says that he will teach Obito about the clan's kinjutsu? [[User:MaskedManMadara|MaskedManMadara]] ([[User talk:MaskedManMadara|talk]]) 18:42, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
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== On the issue of height, ==
:The second since there are only two Uchiha Kinjutsu and one was only created to neutralize the other and is pretty much useless on it's own and Obito only used Izanagi as off now [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 18:59, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
Now, so that people won't say i got most of this stuff out of thin air, [[Talk:Dream World|here]]'s the translation which confirms that the Yin-Yang was also used to create the Zetsu clones. And since Madara is pretty much the only user at the time the Zetsu clones were first created that pretty much is worth a mention. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 19:42, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
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It seems Obito is the same height as Madara according to chapter 665, so maybe databook 4 will list Madara around 175cm instead. Just a quick point out of something is all [[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] ([[User talk:ItachiWasAHero|talk]]) 09:51, February 19, 2014 (UTC)
   
What i don't get is, did he really have yin-yang thanks to dna or was it because of the [[sharingan]]?--[[User:Aeonophic|Aeonophic]] ([[User talk:Aeonophic|talk]]) 15:59, October 21, 2012 (UTC)Aeonophic
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== 667 info ==
   
One doesn't need Sharingan to have either. Second Mizukage used Yin Release, Yin and Yang are the source of several non-elemental ninjutsu. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 16:14, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
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It seems that the 8th gate causes Red Steam and Madara has fought and survived against 8th gate users in the past as evidenced by him even knowing about the red steam. [[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] ([[User talk:ItachiWasAHero|talk]]) 07:31, March 5, 2014 (UTC)
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:Madara knows more about the shinobi history than anyone else. So it's normal that he knows what the green and red steam means. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 07:46, March 5, 2014 (UTC)
If so, then why does [[Obito Uchiha]] have [[earth]] release and [[water]] release, but also has [[yin-yang release]]?--[[User:Aeonophic|Aeonophic]] ([[User talk:Aeonophic|talk]]) 19:09, October 21, 2012 (UTC)Aeonophic
 
   
* Because he used an Earth Release technique and Wood one as well, thus should be able to use Water in addition
+
Hmm, well that is generally true. But I doubt that he knows it on history alone. He fought in the war torn era and the uchiha monument speaks less generally on history so i doubt that it mentions anything about the 8 gates. [[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] ([[User talk:ItachiWasAHero|talk]]) 07:56, March 5, 2014 (UTC)
* Used Izanagi and Madara taught him presumably others
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:He lived really long, there's plenty of times he could've fought a Taijutsu user on Guy's level. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 07:58, March 5, 2014 (UTC)
* I don't get what ur asking... --[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:14, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
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::Just because he knows how the eighth gate works, it doesn't necessarily mean he's fought someone who used it. For all we know, he watched someone fight, or even was just told about it. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 15:46, March 5, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Adding a "Legacy" section ==
+
== Sasuke's Sword of Kusanagi worth adding? ==
   
What do you think, guys? Perhaps we should add a "Legacy" section for Madara, for example because he's technically deceased and because he turned out to be the direct cause of everything that's going on now? [[User:Xfing|Xfing]] ([[User talk:Xfing|talk]]) 23:52, October 22, 2012 (UTC)
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Is it worth adding Sasuke's Sword of Kusanagi because he used it temporarily on Sasuke to fatally wound him? In Madara's tools section?{{unsigned|JustaNobody}}
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:Do we even list Itachi who used it for longer than that?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 18:59, March 5, 2014 (UTC)
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::Personally, I think using a tool once would be enough to list the respective person as a wielder, but the majority here seems to think otherwise. But then again, why do people like Deidara or Kurotsuchi have "Sword" in their infobox when they used it in just one episode in two or maybe three instances? [[User:Noweeaboohoo|Noweeaboohoo]] ([[User talk:Noweeaboohoo|talk]]) 19:10, March 5, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Lack of common direction/bias in some cases I would say. I guess what some would consider a "proper" usage would be either of them channeling their chakra through it or something--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:19, March 5, 2014 (UTC)
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::::Now THAT would dwindle the user-part of the sword's infobox since hardly any of them does such a thing with them. Anyway, I get the "prominent usage" thing, but almost killing the [[Sasuke|second main character]] with a certain tool or having [[Kabuto|one major antagonist]] realise [[Izanami|the crap he's in]] due to using the same tool to [[:File:Izanami 1.png|cut of his body parts]] seems to be prominent enough IMO. This whole case looks a bit premature, might need more discussion. [[User:Noweeaboohoo|Noweeaboohoo]] ([[User talk:Noweeaboohoo|talk]]) 19:26, March 5, 2014 (UTC)
   
:Go ahead. He is dead, and if they influence crap after death then boom, section.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 00:02, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
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Shoot, if someone picks it up and wields it, it should be added. --[[User:EmperorSigma|Now....Fall Under my Ultimate Genjutsu]] ([[User talk:EmperorSigma|talk]]) 19:29, March 5, 2014 (UTC)
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:There is and has always been a difference between listing someone as a use of a generic item - sure whatever, vs listing them as wielders of a named tool. If someone takes up the Kohaku no Johei and uses it as a bludgeoning tool, they are to be listed as using the item? Apply that train of thought to listing people as users of items.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 21:29, March 5, 2014 (UTC)
   
== New Technique ==
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== Overestimation in the Juubi Jinchuriki abilities section ==
   
As it seen in the latest chapter, Madara used Yin-Yang Release to create Black Zetsu by transfering part of his will into a Zetsu clone. Now i'm wondering if by what was shown, warrants the creation of a jutsu article based on what shown and stated. Any opinions/ideas? [[Special:Contributions/2.80.100.41|2.80.100.41]] ([[User talk:2.80.100.41|talk]]) 20:53, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
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Two issues with this part of the article. Minato only said Madara had greater power in his Juubi Jin form than Obito, not "much" great power like the article says. Also, the article says that because he cut through Minato's body while in sage mode, that it means that he has less vulnerability to Sage mode. That is a ridiculous leap in logic, and it implies that Juubi Jinchuriki Obito would not be able to cut Minato in sage mode with a direct hit, which is simply nonsense.
   
"creation of all things" even if speculative, makes sense... I think that's also exactly how the Meteorites were created and why Kabuto compared Madara to So6p during that instance--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:11, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
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My proposed changes are that we remove the "much" part in Madara's Juubi power in comparison to Obito, and remove the entire sentence about him being less vulnerable to Sage mode chakra because it's pure nonsense.
   
It's a stretch at best to be creation of all things...but i do believe it to be a technique in it's own right. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 21:44, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
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[[User:Kenny U|Kenny U]] ([[User talk:Kenny U|talk]]) 01:29, March 24, 2014 (UTC) Kenny U
:Any other opinions for this topic? [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 18:29, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
The best bet is what I put forward, but this isn't a place where bets are taken as fact, thus we will have to wait. Pointless topic, since how would you call that... Zetsu creation technique?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:19, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
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UPDATE: As of now it has been fixed to an acceptable state, so that is fine now.
:That's not the one, i'm talking about the Yin-Yang technique Madara used to create the ''Black'' Zetsu by transfering a portion of his will onto a Zetsu clone...given we had a description, an image of how it was used and a user, it could warrant a creation...maybe '''Will Transfer Technique''', since it was shown in translation that Black Zetsu was basically a low grade replica of Madara due to being infused with his '''will''' or conscience.[[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 00:24, October 25, 2012 (UTC)
 
::Now with that i can agree...is there any other thoughts on this topic?[[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 15:43, October 29, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
Where exactly was it said that Black Zetsu was created using Yin-Yang Release? Because I only heard that the clones of White Zetsu were created using such- even then Madara had nothing to do with that- the statue and the living clone did all that. Yes he did implant his will into White Zetsu and the chakra receiver, but why exactly does a technique article need to be created for it? It's just one more place that speculation as to what his "will" is to be presented in a more "visible" fashion. Mentioning that he did it in his general abilities section should suffice, at least for now in my opinion.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 15:57, October 29, 2012 (UTC)
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[[User:Kenny U|Kenny U]] ([[User talk:Kenny U|talk]]) 01:44, March 24, 2014 (UTC) Kenny U
:Madara said it himself, whem he said he was teaching Obito Yin-Yang Techniques, plus the Yin-Yang as a whole has very little information to it, plus we have a (small granted) description that by infusing his will onto Zetsu to create it's Black side, he created a low grade replica of himself...given how Yin-Yang as whole appears to revolve around the manipulation of reality and creation...and the will part...to me i see it as a portion of his psyche/soul/chakra...since he said that the other portion in the chakra receiver for his revival, i'm imagining that is the reason for it. Either way i believe that what was used to create Black Zetsu is a Yin-Yang technique in it own right since it envolves the transformation of imagination (Madara's will) into a physical thing (The Black Zetsu).
 
Anyone care to join in? [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 14:59, December 31, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
I don't think anyone disagrees with it being a yin-yang release, but there's no need to create an article for that... closest thing to that would be "creation of all things" and that's speculative--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 02:16, January 1, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
== Respect Shown ==
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== New Jinchuriki Image ==
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Hi there, I noticed that the image used to show Madara as the Shinju's Jinchuriki is a little outdated, and I wondered if this could be considered as a replacement.
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:File:Madara_Rikudo_HD.png
   
Is it worthy saying that Madara has shown equal respect for Naruto just as for Hashirama ? --[[Special:Contributions/213.93.224.246|213.93.224.246]] ([[User talk:213.93.224.246|talk]]) 16:14, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
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--[[User:RIkudo|RIkudo]] ([[User talk:RIkudo|talk]]) 02:03, March 29, 2014 (UTC)
----
 
this is me asking, (went online unintentionally) --[[User:Naruto6paths|Naruto6paths]] ([[User talk:Naruto6paths|talk]]) 16:17, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
And you concluded as such due to what..?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:15, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
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I could be wrong (But I'm not) But these images appear to be the exact same one, except yours is kinda grainy, and has cut off part of Madara's foot and one of his floaty orbs, while maintaining a text box I don't think is necessary. I'm not trying to be rude, and maybe they've replaced it or something since you put up this topic, but it would seriously appear to be a downgrade. --[[User:Hawkeye2701|Hawkeye2701]] ([[User talk:Hawkeye2701|talk]]) 02:11, March 29, 2014 (UTC)
   
After witnessing naruto countering his wood release: nativity of a world of trees and looking for the original naruto (when he used his shadow clones) just only to negotiate "seemingly" this can apply to his respect, instead of just talking to his shadow clones. --[[User:Naruto6paths|Naruto6paths]] ([[User talk:Naruto6paths|talk]]) 19:31, October 30, 2012 (UTC)
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Oh, in that case, sorry. And don't worry, you weren't rude, you were honest, and I appreciate that.
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--[[User:RIkudo|RIkudo]] ([[User talk:RIkudo|talk]]) 02:20, March 29, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Did he really try to convince Naruto? ==
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Same as a past revision of the current image we use for that, that wasn't used precisely because there's a part of the right page missing. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 02:39, March 29, 2014 (UTC)
   
While reading the chapter it is impossible to ascertain whether Naruto's "Like hell that will work! I'm the son of th 4th Hokage!" was a response to Madara's talking or his attacks. We have no way to say, so I suggest all the parts saying Madara was trying to convince Naruto that the Eye of the Moon is for the good, should be removed. [[User:Xfing|Xfing]] ([[User talk:Xfing|talk]]) 10:49, November 12, 2012 (UTC)
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== Sensor ==
   
What Madara says in return more strongly implies that he was trying to convince Naruto of his plan being for the good of humanity. Besides, on side points, Madara has shown genuine belief that his plan is for the greater good of humanity. The Fox King([[User:The Fox King|tylerbryant547@gmail.com]] ([[User talk:The Fox King|talk]]) 12:45, November 12, 2012 (UTC))
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I don't think Madara is a sensor. First of all, the reference to when he was a child is stupid. He says he's sensitive, not he's a sensor. Second, even people who aren't sensor ninjas can sense strong chakra. Suigetsu and Karin did so with Naruto's chakra. Is there anything else that hints at Madara being a sensor? If not, I suggest we remove that part. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|]]</sup> 18:55, April 1, 2014 (UTC)
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:The only instances that indicate that Madara is a sensor I recall are the detection of Hashirama, when he was still far away from the battlefield. Madara was the only at that moment that seemed to detect it, so even if Hashirama has strong chakra, him being the only one reacting to it for me indicates sensor abilities. There was also that one time when the Alliance did that huge combo against the Ten-Tails' first form, and Obito said something about them being incapable of sensing the Alliance after the dust and insects came into play, which always confused me a bit because he said that after trying to use the Sharingan. All other displays of sensor like ability I can think of are post theft of Hashirama's senjutsu chakra. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 20:06, April 1, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Shadow Clone/Wood Clone ==
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Don't even try this one Seel. Why do you think he can't pee when someone stands behind, because he senses them of course.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:23, April 1, 2014 (UTC)
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:Elve, do you really want me to check the raw? :D
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:Omni-kun, wouldn't Madara need to knead his chakra to sense Hashirama? Like Tobirama didn't do back then when they were kids? I don't think there are "automatic sensors"... [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 10:43, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
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::Figure he just molded his chakra during that moment. And there may or may not be automatic sensors.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:24, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Was there ever anyone who didn't need to do anything to sense chakra? [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 12:39, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
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::::Naruto in chakra mode and sage mode?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:41, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::That's a special form, not something every sensor ninja has. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 12:48, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
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::::::Now you have something more in the table, Naruto sensed Indra inside Sasuke's, so there is a possibility that Madara sensed Hashirama because they had the same conection. Just wondering. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 13:00, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
   
Is it noteworthy that Madara states he was the only one to be able to see through wood clones but he can't distinguish Naruto from his shadow clones (Considering he is alway surprised when he hits one of them)? --[[Special:Contributions/178.26.204.139|178.26.204.139]] ([[User talk:178.26.204.139|talk]]) 15:16, December 1, 2012 (UTC)
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Seel, even though Madara wasn't in the fight at the moment, I find it highly unlikely that he wouldn't at the very least be prepared to leap into it at a moment's notice, and that would include having chakra ready to use. Indra and Asura's chakra is still a situation outside normal sensor limits, if it indeed allows them to detect one another. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 17:21, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
   
This is weird, as at first he could tell which is Naruto and a clone...--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:49, December 1, 2012 (UTC)
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== Unique Traits ==
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Madara was able to use Susanoo without using his Rinnegan. What's to say he can't use the Preta Path without the Rinnegan as well? If so that doesn't count as a unique trait. [[User:Cloudtheavenger|Cloudtheavenger]] ([[User talk:Cloudtheavenger|talk]]) 07:13, April 7, 2014 (UTC)
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:The reason why he could use Susanoo with the Rinnegan was revealed to be because Susanoo doesn't even require any eyes at all.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:47, April 7, 2014 (UTC)
   
Ah, forgot that then--[[Special:Contributions/178.26.204.139|178.26.204.139]] ([[User talk:178.26.204.139|talk]]) 03:13, December 3, 2012 (UTC)
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::Where was this mentioned?--[[User:Taynio|Taynio]] ([[User talk:Taynio|talk]]) 21:07, April 7, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Re-read the chapters after Madara gets revived with Rinne Tensei and his eyes crumble. He used Susanoo without eyes there--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:52, April 7, 2014 (UTC)
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  +
::::Or it just means it has mastered his doujutsu to an extend he can use them (to an extent since he didn't or couldn't manifest the final Susanoo) without his eyes.[[User:Cloudtheavenger|Cloudtheavenger]] ([[User talk:Cloudtheavenger|talk]]) 06:19, April 8, 2014 (UTC)
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  +
::::: If no one can counter it then I'm requesting deletion of his unique trait.[[User:Cloudtheavenger|Cloudtheavenger]] ([[User talk:Cloudtheavenger|talk]]) 04:39, April 12, 2014 (UTC)
  +
  +
== Notice the Eye? ==
  +
  +
Did anyone else notice from the latest chapter that Madara gained the juubi's eye on his forehead, similar to Kaguya's sharingan on her head?[[User:Jtw2014|Jtw2014]] ([[User talk:Jtw2014|talk]]) 21:56, April 16, 2014 (UTC)Jtw2014
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:We don't really know what to make of that panel. We were either shown that Madara has the third eye on his forehead under the headband or Kaguya. I would have said the former myself, but that doesn't explain why then would Kishi draw Madara's normal eyes as white. If it were Madara, it would have made more sense to draw the third eye, right Rinnegan and left eye closed.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:59, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
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  +
Madara's new Jinchuriki form has started to rise above the one Hagoromo had, with its tomoes at the sleeves, and his horn like appendages(one of which looks like a rabbit's ear) he started to resemble Kaguya.
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[[User:Gerisama|Gerisama]] ([[User talk:Gerisama|talk]]) 08:24, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
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== Storm release ==
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Can we wait until the full chapter comes out before adding this stuff? It really spoiles it for those that can't read japanese. [[User:Derigar|Derigar]] ([[User talk:Derigar|talk]]) 14:27, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
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:Why? We document what is known, there is a spoiler warning on the front page, so there's that. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 14:37, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
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::Are you like... serious? A mere visit to this place equals getting spoiled. You basically can't be an editor without knowing most the stuff, so just don't come here--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 14:42, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
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:::And you get on Ten Tailed Fox for being rude...--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 14:45, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Please don't go and tell people not to come here, that's rude. Unfortunately, you're kinda right with it, though. This is not a page were we list information released in English, but in Japanese, too. We're up-do-date, not up-to-some-fan's-date. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 14:50, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
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::::Excuse my honesty then. But visiting this place and not wanting to get spoiled is like being hungry and entering a supermarket, then asking them to hide the goods because hanging them in front of your face makes you even more hungry.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:02, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
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To be fair, we were really quick with those information this time. The next time we get any kind of spoilers, we wait until the full chapter is released, alright? • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 15:04, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
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What does this have to do with Storm Release? and I also think you shouldn't be a user if you don't know all of the stuff. [[User:Munchvtec|Munchvtec]] ([[User talk:Munchvtec|talk]]) 15:49, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
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Question. Madara`s Ranton is KKG or it TBS?[[User:Rage gtx|Rage gtx]] ([[User talk:Rage gtx|talk]]) 16:05, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
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I think it should be clear by now that YYR allows users access to all 5 basic elements and mix them as they please.--[[User:Reliops|Reliops]] ([[User talk:Reliops|talk]]) 01:17, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
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Well well, what a bunch of hypocrits.
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Remove storm release, and wait before making these edits. [[User:Derigar|Derigar]] ([[User talk:Derigar|talk]]) 14:17, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
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:Before calling others hypocrits, would you please read [[Thread:122093|this]]?--[[User:JOA20|JOA20]] ([[User talk:JOA20|talk]]) 14:22, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
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::Madara's Storm Release (and whatever other advanced nature he showcases other than Wood Release) probably comes from whatever Naruto is also getting them from. Either from the tailed beasts (he still has their chakra, as Obito was able to rip some of Gyuki and Shukaku), or some measure of that mixed with the "senjutsu of the Six Paths" as Madara called, whatever that is. Madara says he has both Naruto and Sasuke's powers, so wherever Naruto gets his, so does Madara. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 17:30, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
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== Sage Classification ==
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As of chapter 674, Madara has used techniques specifically called "Sage Art". Please add Sage to Madara's classification section. Steveo920, 11:33, April 22, 2014
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Using Senjutsu chakra alone doesn't make one a Sage. Otherwise Jugo would have been long listed, so would Curse Mark users. In my opinion a proper Sage is someone who can absorb natural energy from his/her surroundings--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:44, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
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:Wrong, the senjutsu page specifically states that a sage is one that manipulates and utilizes senjutsu chakra, which Madara has done. [[User:Riptide240|Riptide240]] ([[User talk:Riptide240|talk]]) 15:49, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
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I also believe he is a sage now. [[User:Munchvtec|Munchvtec]] ([[User talk:Munchvtec|talk]]) 15:50, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
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Then the page/s need to be updated. Calling those who wield Senjutsu chakra without having absorbed nature energy and molded some Sages is like calling jinchuurikis Tailed Beasts because they wield the Tailed Beasts' chakras.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:55, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
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A sage is a sage and a jinchuriki is a jinchuriki. Tailed beast=beast with tails hmmm lets see jinchuriki can gain tails but never really have one and there not really beasts so yeah. [[User:Munchvtec|Munchvtec]] ([[User talk:Munchvtec|talk]]) 16:00, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
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:If Madara is a Sage then so are Jugo and Curse Mark wielders, that's all I'm saying. Madara got his Senjutsu from Hashirama and Shinju, no training and stuff.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 16:04, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
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Senjutsu is not the same as sage arts but then why did madara call it sage art then? [[User:Munchvtec|Munchvtec]] ([[User talk:Munchvtec|talk]]) 16:06, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
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:It's the same. Senjutsu refers both to senjutsu chakra (chakra mixed with natural energy and balanced) and brand of techniques using said chakra. We haven't been told that there is a difference between "sage art:" and "sage technique:"--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 16:10, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
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So then maybe we should label them as sages as well. [[User:Riptide240|Riptide240]] ([[User talk:Riptide240|talk]]) 16:23, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
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Pre-jinchuriki Madara, I don't consider a Sage. He stole Hashirama's senjutsu chakra, he didn't make it himself. Jinchuriki Madara, I'm still murky about that, but choosing not to list him as such until other stuff gets clarified. I get that the Shinju is one giant mass of natural energy, but natural energy alone doesn't make senjutsu, it's blending that with chakra. I'm deeply thorn between my desire to bash Kishimoto in the head for doing the same with the logic of the manga and my desire to see the manga through the end. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 17:30, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
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Either way he should have a senjutsu section in his ability page, given that he used senjutsu abilities...and he may be considered a sage...the Sage of the 6 is considered a sage but his power came from the Shinju...[[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 23:21, April 23, 2014 (UTC)
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We don't know if Hagoromo was a Sage because of Senjutsu. After all he was Sage '''OF THE''' Six Paths--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:01, April 24, 2014 (UTC)
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== Kakashi's Mangekyō Sharingan in Infobox ==
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In chapter 674, Madara steals Kakashi's left Sharingan and he can use Kamui easily. He control this eye and its abilities completely. You guys, what do you think about this?--[[User:Sulina|Sulina]] ([[User talk:Sulina|talk]]) 17:43, April 23, 2014 (UTC)
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== Error ==
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I don't see Kamui listed in Madara's jutsu can someone fix that?--[[User:Rinneganmaster|Rinneganmaster]] ([[User talk:Rinneganmaster|talk]]) 19:54, April 23, 2014 (UTC)
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:Null edit Kamui's article, then null edit Madara's article. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 21:53, April 23, 2014 (UTC)
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I don't know how to do it so someone should do it instead.--[[User:Rinneganmaster|Rinneganmaster]] ([[User talk:Rinneganmaster|talk]]) 23:15, April 23, 2014 (UTC)
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== Straight tomoe Sharingan ==
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Can anyone explain what Madara means with this? [[User:Derigar|Derigar]] ([[User talk:Derigar|talk]]) 00:17, April 24, 2014 (UTC)
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:How can we explain something that is yet to be explained by the author?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:33, April 24, 2014 (UTC)
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::I find Madara's statement about straight tomoe quite odd. Sasuke I understand why his EMS would be straight tomoe, neither his original MS nor Itachi's had straight tomoe, but Sasuke's EMS had. Madara's original MS didn't have straight tomoe, Izuna's are the ones that looked straight, and after Madara transplanted those eyes, there was no change in the basic design of the tomoe like it happened with Sasuke. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 15:05, April 24, 2014 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 15:05, April 24, 2014

Icon-Archive
Archives

Trimming Down: AbilitiesEdit

To avoid further edit war, I am adding this here with my intentions. Namely, the complete removal of Bukijutsu, kenjutsu and Intelligence from his abilities section. As well as general trimming down of the prose and circlejerking his section is full of. Because quite frankly, his intelligence should go under Personality, and bukijutsu and kenjutsu are literally only worth a sentence because they aren't that important most of his fighting style was focused around Susanoo, with very little use of a sword or gubai.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 23:50, December 22, 2013 (UTC)

I understand what you are saying, but that is also like saying that Shikamaru's intelligence is not a defining attribute to him. Similar, Itachi's signature ability wasn't shurikens, but was still a noticeable skill of his. Steveo920, 18:56 December 22, 2013
Seriously, I am all for making this page sleeker, I've been reducing all day to help out. Not just the abilities section, but the personality section as well. I just think that if the character shows noticeable skill in it, it should be mention to some extent. Steveo920, 19:-1, December 22, 2013
The issue is though intelligence is not Madara's defining feature. Madara's defining ability is his dojutsu. He is smart no denying that, but it is not a defining ability. Same with kenjutsu and bukijustsu, he for the most part uses them. But he isn't defined by them. Its not the same situation of Shikamaru or Tenten, both or are defined by their intelligence and weapon techniques respectively. Both ken and bukijutsu can be mentioned, they should be mentioned, but it is not worth a large section which continues to just read like a circlejerk of how awesome Madara is.
Like that's the second part of the problem. We don't need to have multiple mentions of how Madara can pwn fodder shinobi with no effort. We don't need to literally repeat some of his great feats multiple times in multiple sections. That was what I was trying to do to trim this down, I removed repeated actions and dropped ones that are quite frankly pointless (Mentioning his can battle an entire army is fine. Mentioning he can battle an entire army multiple times and it becomes a circlejerk.)--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 00:08, December 23, 2013 (UTC)

Everything should be mentioned, im agaisnt taking certain thing out Munchvtec (talk) 00:29, December 23, 2013 (UTC)munchvtec

Good contribution. Now tell us how you really feel or you just like the circlejerk of information Madara's page has devolved into?--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 00:31, December 23, 2013 (UTC)
I agree, little things shouldn't be blown out of proportion, that's why I am still gragually trimming it down myself, but to act like they had no involvement at all is like saying they have no ability for it all. Hashirama's life force and chakra is a key aspect to Madara's plan, but it wasn't a defining attribute to Hashirama himself. Whats-more, Madara's weapon and intelligence traits are noticeable as he was known for his gunbai and his intelligence played an important role to the development of the world, having manipulated so much from beyond the grave. Steveo920, 19:30, December 22, 2013
To be honest, your trimming down seems more phoned in. And you are still blowing things out to be bigger than they need to be. As I said he has used his gubai and that can be mentioned, but not to such a degree that he needs entire section dedicated to it. We don't need a section on his intelligence because "he manipulated things from the grave". He actually didn't, he had Tobi do his works for him, and had Kabuto not revived Madara, Tobi would have been alone with the Ten-Tails. We can mention he is smart fine, but he does not need an entire section based on his intelligence at least not in his Abilities section. So yes, even "important role to the development of the world" is overhyping him. The problem is that much of what is in the article is overhype. Things need to actually be removed to solve this problem not trying to dance around the issue.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 00:45, December 23, 2013 (UTC)
Okay, I'll admit that by statement about his intelligence wasn't thought out, I guess I was getting a little emotional since I seriously put so much work into my edits, but the way you are saying it, characters like Kakashi don't need an intellgence section. It isn't his most defining but it place a huge role on how he operates. Steveo920, 19:53, December 22, 2013
I'm of the same mind as Ultimate, honestly, and for every page. Not just Madara. I don't know when it became acceptable that every single sneeze a character makes is mentioned in the ability section, but its needless, and takes up space that could be used by actual useful information. The abilities section should give a summary—key word here—of Madara's defining capabilities. His dōjutsu, to name the most significant. Trimming bukijutsu and intelligence, or even outright removing them, would be fine. Madara hasn't even used his fan since he first arrived back on the battlefield, and, I'm sorry, while he's skilled with other weapons, they clearly aren't his main mode of attack. Not to mention, the abilities section was mostly buffed up by a select few who seem to worship Madara's ever action, adding in needless "junk info" along with a ton of unneeded references. These articles aren't meant to recount every single action in the series done by these characters, verbatim. It is to give a summary. If people want to know that Madara Uchiha was capable of using a fan to blow away Naruto, then they can visit the Jutsu page, or read the manga, but it certainly doesn't need an entire section dedicated to it. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 00:56, December 23, 2013 (UTC)
If you want to reduce the sections, I will have no problem with that. I just think that if they show more than average skill in the said area, it should be noted. It's kind of like how on various pages a character's limits are noted, like Itahci not being able to defeat Jiraiya. Its not defining, but it paints a clearer picture on what the character can do. 2Steveo920, 20:09, December 22, 2012
Except this isn't about his limit, its nothing but circlejerking around how he is close to being a god. We could mention him being legendary and strong but instead the article throws extreme focus on him wrecking or hyping up little things he does. Honestly skills outside of dojutsu and nature transformations can be summed up as "Highly skilled in taijutsu and various weapons, particularly his gumbai". That is literally all that needs to be said about kenjutsu bukijutsu and taijutsu yet the article has 3 different sections about them.-TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 01:40, December 23, 2013 (UTC)


Okay, I'll admit I don't even know what "circlejerking" is exactly, but I'm not trying to overhype anything> I just want to give readers a better idea than just thinking a character is good at something when there is more information. To go overboard about how he is close to being a god from intelligence or weapon skills would be like saying he is borderline clairvoyant or he no army in the world could stand against him respectively. Steveo920, 20:48, December 22, 2012

In my opinion, I find trimming down Madara's article to be pointless. 100,000 some bytes is hardly that bad, and furthermore, given that the manga is scheduled to end in 2014 (so probably in a little more than two months or three), it's not like there's that much more information that will be given on Madara. Furthermore, Bukijutsu and whatnot are crucial to a character. The purpose of a Wikia site for information is to give readers a thorough guideline about characters and other associated things, so to shorten it to only bare essentials and cutting out what we consider "unimportant" is silly. As a canon site, we should present exactly what Kishi gives us through the chapters, not shortening it and summarizing it to how we personally fancy it. I dunno, just my two cents. --Silver-Haired Seireitou (talk) 05:07, December 23, 2013 (UTC)

Except the wikia was never supposed to be an alternative to actually reading the manga/watching the anime. Sections like abilities are supposed to be summuries, not word for word dick jerking of a particular character where every single thing they do is consider the Kings Gold and hyped as if it is an intergral part of the character.-TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 10:33, December 23, 2013 (UTC)
Various characters have various abilities that aren't the most prominent, but still give an overall idea what they can do. Kakashi specializes in ninjutsu supplemented by his Sharingan, yet he is still a highly skilled taijutsu user, one of few able to use any of the Eight Gates, which he rarely uses but is still noteworthy. Steveo920. 10:51, Dec 23, 2013
Okay, but you're equating "noteworthy" as an excuse to write an entire novel and dedicate a unique section to the skill. Even your example can be summed up as, "Kakashi is a talented user of taijutsu, being one of the few shinobi capable of opening the Eight Gates". Bingo. Done. Not five paragraphs on everytime he successfully landed a punch on a villain. Ultimate is absolutely right. This wiki is not an alternative for the manga. If you want to know every single skill a character has, that is what the story is for. Summaries are what we are supposed to give: nothing further. That is what a Wikia—an encyclopedia—is meant for. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 19:37, December 23, 2013 (UTC)
No, my point about Kakashi isn't that he can use the eight gates, its that his abilities in the taijutsu are more than just basic. Again, I am not trying to glorify it or right an entire "novel" as you put it, I am just saying that needs more detail. Steveo920, 14:50, December 23, 2013
No, it really doesn't need more detail. Detail is for the manga to work out. We work out summaries. Plain and simple. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 21:01, December 23, 2013 (UTC)
I'm in full agreement of trimming down this article (and some others, but that's for another time). Madara Uchiha is one of the series' most popular characters among the fans, so it is easy to subconsciously blow his feats out of proportion. Emphasis should be on his dojutsu prowess, but everything should be concise and summarized. I can help out with the personality section as well though, since I've done minor work in said areas in the past. --Kakashi Namikaze - talk 14:20, December 25, 2013 (UTC)

Elderly pic for infobox? Edit

Currently it's the most recent pic of Madara when he was alive that's animated. The current photo doesn't show his revived self at all so what do you guys think? --Mandon (talk) 17:46, January 9, 2014 (UTC)

...But he's regained his youth...that was from a flashback. --OmegaRasengan (talk) 17:49, January 9, 2014 (UTC)

There's currently no image of him post rinne-tensei in the anime though. The one we're currently using doesn't even resemble his current appearance, it's just a pic of him in his edo-tensei form. --Mandon (talk) 17:52, January 9, 2014 (UTC)

Look, what is posted in the infobox is what the character currently looks like the anime. Once Hashirama vs. Madara is animated, a pic of living Madara will likely be uploaded. Until then, this will suffice.--OmegaRasengan (talk) 17:57, January 9, 2014 (UTC)

Well I don't know much about the image guidelines EDIT: By that I mean the factors in choosing an infobox image. not the actual guidelines, but I'm just saying the current image isn't a photo of him while he's alive. And he doesn't look exactly like that in the current chapters. We thought his post-RT appearance would resemble his edo tensei body and that's why the image was decided upon, but clearly that wasn't the case. --Mandon (talk) 18:03, January 9, 2014 (UTC)

There is absolutely no way the picture of Elderly Madara is gonna be used. The picture we have is the closet to an image we've known him throughout the entire manga, not just 2 chapters. So I repeat, there is absolutely no way that picture is gonna be used.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 22:46, January 9, 2014 (UTC)

You don't have the authority to make that decision, Ultimate. I brought up this discussion so that everyone can decide which photo would be best. So far you and Omega have spoken out against it, and I've voiced why I'm for it, so let's see what everyone else thinks. My point still stands, the current photo isn't a living photo of him. The sole reason it was even considered was because we thought that's how he would look after being revived, since his eyes didn't burn out until the next chapter, so whether or not we use his elderly appearance, I don't think the current image is appropriate for the infobox. Those are just my thoughts. --Mandon (talk) 00:33, January 10, 2014 (UTC)

First, it's TheUltimate3 and I accept TU3 for short. Second, ain't no way photo of old elderly Madara is gonna be used, especially when that is by far his least notable appearance in the manga/anime/whatever.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 02:16, January 10, 2014 (UTC)
Third a picture of him alive is preferred, but not when it is completely contradictory to what we have seen him in most of the series. We've seen old man Madara in two chapters. We've seen young, ready to fight Madara for a quarter of the manga. It's not rocket science on which one will be used. And beacuse you made this topic I will give you a hint; it will not be Elderly Madara.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 02:17, January 10, 2014 (UTC)

Does it matter what I call you? You know I'm talking to you so it matters not. Back on topic.. Old Man Madara is the most recent living picture of him. We used a photo of adult Nagato after the pain arc even though we technically saw a lot more of him as a child, so I don't exactly buy that argument. In any case I really don't care which photo we use, as long as it isn't a photo where he's reanimated. I'm going strictly by the reason we used it originally, which was that we thought that's how he would look after his true revival. It wasn't, so we should change it back to the old picture from Onoki's flashback or use a photo of him as an old man as a placeholder since it's more recent. I've raised my points and you've raised yours, and unless someone else comments there's no chance of it being changed anyways so let's see where this goes. --Mandon (talk) 02:59, January 10, 2014 (UTC)

Yes what I'm called is very important. I don't call you MadaraFan01 do it?
But seriously the picture of him doesn't even look like he was Reincarnated, the only way you'll know is if you read the manga. And we don't work for just them. We work for the fandom as a whole, and as a whole, adult Madara with red armor is his most iconic appearance. Old Man Madara is not. There is absolutely no reason to use an image of him at his most obscure, other than my personal president that we use images of them alive.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 03:07, January 10, 2014 (UTC)
Is there an actual precedent against edo tensei images? If the anime offers no good living options and, in fact, Madara has spent a majority of his screentime as an edo tensei, what's wrong with using it? When the anime reaches Hashirama's flashbacks then, sure, replace it with a living photo. But in the meantime...? ~SnapperTo 03:30, January 10, 2014 (UTC)
No there isn't. Or at least there shouldn't be. I have just been very vocal in the past about, if available, having a picture of a character alive instead of the cracks and black eyes of Reincarnation. But Madara here shows no visible signs of Reincarnation so even by my old standards, he passes.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 03:32, January 10, 2014 (UTC)
Sort of a convenient misrepresentation, no? Yet it still isn't a particularly good image. Are you going to insist on an inferior picture merely because of some not-actual guideline? I would point out that Mū is in the same boat, where there are living options, but they aren't used because they are a) bad, and b) he's known better dead anyway.
There's also Gari and Pakura, but they've probably got some complicated manga > anime reasoning I wouldn't follow... ~SnapperTo 03:48, January 10, 2014 (UTC)
Not sure if you are still speaking to me or Mandon... If it's at me, I just don't want Elder Madara and see no reason to use it.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 03:57, January 10, 2014 (UTC)

There's a difference. I'm not calling you something obscure that has no relevance to your name. if I call you ultimate you at least know I'm talking to you. It's not a big deal. Anyways, there are plenty of images to use Snapper. In fact, we've used them before we switched to the corrent photo. The greyscaled image of him with his gunbai for example, or the one from Onoki's flashback. And if we're allowed to use Edo Tensei photos, there are plenty of images better than the one we're currently using. --Mandon (talk) 05:33, January 10, 2014 (UTC)

I was speaking to TheUltimateMuscle, just in case anyone wanted to know.
My point was that there are currently no good images of living Madara from the anime. He's either too old, too grayscaled, or wearing too much atypical clothing. In the absence of a good living image, I see no reason to not use a good dead image, at least until such time that there is a good living image. ~SnapperTo 08:08, January 10, 2014 (UTC)

Well if we all come to an agreement that ET images with noticable ET traits like cracks and black sclera are okay, then we can easily snuff out a better image than the one we're currently using. --Mandon (talk) 09:15, January 10, 2014 (UTC)

Not sure if it's still relevant, but to answer your question about why Gari and Pakura images, pictures of them Reincarnated was chosen because the only not-Reincarnated pictures that exist for them is Anime-Only, and everyone should be well aware by now how much that is a buzz-word around here.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 12:31, January 10, 2014 (UTC)

Why can't we make a compromise??? Do people have to be so stubborn and egocentric? Can someone explain why can't we use both manga and anime images? In my opinion that would be the best, with manga image of his current revived status and anime image of his last recent living appearance, which would be (fortunately not to Ulti's delight) the grandpa one--Elveonora (talk) 13:43, January 10, 2014 (UTC)

The issue is convoluted and stupid (and yes I am talking about myself too). Some don't want anime images at all if a manga one exists, some what uniform consistency, some has followed through with the manga and anime depictions but then the problem comes how do you incorporate that with every character, then the whole Part I and Part II thing passed. Then you add this one where really come on, Grandpa Madara is in no way iconic enough for an image, but based on the very unofficial rule I myself championed would/could be used and here is the discussion.
It's really a big mess.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 20:30, January 10, 2014 (UTC)

Is there any reason why we can't just use tabs for Madara like the infobox for Obito? Also, Elve has a point, I think manga images could and should be appropriate under special circumstances. If you could take a minute to go to the One Piece Wikia and look at the infoboxes for each character, you'll see that they use both manga and anime images in separate tabs on both the pre-timeskip and post-timeskip sections in said box. So like, say a character that appeared in the first half appears in the second half, then a manga image is used until an anime photo comes along, and even then both images are still there to view. Obviously both our wiki and theirs have completely different code so I'm not sure how that would work, but it's something to consider. --Mandon (talk) 00:28, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

There is no reason to not use tabs for Madara, but on the same token there is barely a reason we do use tabs on Tobi. In terms of sticking four images in the infobox, I don't know if our infoboxes are even designed to do that. It's possible, but we had to wait like half a year to get a functional two tab thing working and I don't know if it works beyond that.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 00:38, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

We could just do an "Alive" and "Reincarnated" thing for the infobox. We don't need 4 tabs for that. EDIT -- But then there's the question of whether or not there's a real point in using multiple tabs. If edo tensei images are acceptable, and he already appears with his iconic look, then I don't really see a reason to care.. to be perfectly honest. Preferably an image that shows him at a better angle would be more ideal but that's just me. --Mandon (talk) 01:25, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

Alive and reincarnated have barely any differences. superficial at best so that would not make sense. And It'll have to suffice until more usable living!Madara images are available.

"Old Man Madara is the most recent living picture of him. We used a photo of adult Nagato after the pain arc even though we technically saw a lot more of him as a child"-exactly. We use current in series pictures if available. adult Nagato=not a flashback. Old Madara=flashback.

"Sort of a convenient misrepresentation, no?"- well its what works best. If you notice Hanzo has a similar situation. the anime fucked up and gave him normal eyes, so instead of having both anime/manga images, we use one of ET Hanzo because in canon he has dark sclera so it works.--RexGodwin (talk) 11:49, January 15, 2014 (UTC)

Did Anyone Notice?Edit

Did anyone notice two of the following things:

  • Madara was able to go into sage mode after absorbing Hashirama's chakra, but Hashirama himself wasn't in sage mode
  • Madara bit his arm, causing it to bleed, to manipulate the rods in Hashi's back upon his resurrection.--Senju SymbolKotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 04:03, January 14, 2014 (UTC)
Really? I haven't had an idea why did he bite his arm all along.--Elveonora (talk) 12:51, January 14, 2014 (UTC)
Well, you can see Hashirama's senjutsu chakra flowing from Hashi's body to Madara's through the wound Madara caused on himself by biting his left arm.--JOA20 (talk) 12:59, January 14, 2014 (UTC)
Yea, but is it significant, and how did he access Hashi's senjutsu, if he wasnt in sage mode? He wasnt even gathering any at all in their fight.--Senju SymbolKotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 15:07, January 14, 2014 (UTC)
There were these clones of Naruto that despite being used to gather senjutsu chakra to allow the original body to re-enter Sage Mode didn't have the Sage Mode markings. And Hashirama was still for some moments, enough in my humble opinion to gain enough senjutsu chakra for Madara.--JOA20 (talk) 15:27, January 14, 2014 (UTC)

Hear Me OutEdit

Ok, so i'm trying to edit Madara's article according to what occurred in today's chapter. I want to exercise these points, but seeing as there is much stress over what goes in/out Madara's page, i want to run by you guys first. I mean, one slip up and you're called a "Madara Fanboy".(haha!) Here we go:

  • Madara's Susano'o shield (mabye make into a seprete unnamed technique?
  • Madara's reflexes to avoid Tobirama's Hiraishin (twice?)
  • TELEKINESIS!!!!?
  • And his ability to just outright rip the tailed beat right out of both Naruto and Bee.--Senju SymbolKotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 14:12, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
  • No.
  • Yes.
  • No!
  • Yeah, drop the beat! No, he just took less longer than Obito did. Seelentau 愛 14:15, January 15, 2014 (UTC)

WOW!! That made me laugh out loud, haha. But a few Q's that need A's. No to making the Susano'o shield a separate tech? and are we still discussing the "levitation" to be a probable unnamed Rinnegan tech?--Senju SymbolKotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 14:20, January 15, 2014 (UTC)

Yes to no and no, that's conclusion-jumping and we don't do that here. Seelentau 愛 14:26, January 15, 2014 (UTC)

The shield is no different in my opinion that a ribcage manifestation, a pic for the variant would be nice tho--Elveonora (talk) 14:29, January 15, 2014 (UTC)

Either way, I strive to only make appropriate edits. So ill get to it. Revision of my edit would be helpful.--Senju SymbolKotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 14:34, January 15, 2014 (UTC)

The paralyzing air. Edit

Hi everyone, wanna ask a question. In the last chapter, didn't Madara seems or can we assumed the he used Banchou Tenin? THANKYOU Small brother (talk) 20:09, January 17, 2014 (UTC)

Didn't function like Basnsho Ten'in. Bansho Ten'in pulls the target towards the user. Madara stopped Sasuke while he was jumping at him and held him there.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 20:15, January 17, 2014 (UTC)
It's obvious Nagato didn't show us everything the Rinnegan has to offer. After all, the eyes are Madara's or rather Izuna's ._. Well, you get it. For all we know, each Path has 5 or more techniques, making it even more overpowered than already is when used to its fullest extent--Elveonora (talk) 21:11, January 17, 2014 (UTC)

Then, we could assume that come from the Rinnegan? I'm not so sure, but Madara was looking at Sasuke when it happened. Like the Rinbou Hingoku, but not sure. THANKYOU Small brother (talk) 08:39, January 18, 2014 (UTC)

Fighting Sasuke Blind Edit

Hi there. I know everyone has been trying very hard to trim down Madara's page, but I had one small piece of information that I think should be added to Madara's Taijutus section. It is worth mentioning that in Chapter 657 he was capable of fighting Sasuke (who was armed with his sword and Mangekyo Shiringan) to a standstill even though Madara was completely blind at the time. --Raizerninja (talk) 00:34, January 23, 2014 (UTC)

Sort of mentioned already, indirectly, in the ninjutsu section, where his sensing is mentioned. The reason why he was able to do it blind is because sensing made up for it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:52, January 23, 2014 (UTC)

Rinbo: Hengoku is Deva Path Edit

Rinbo: Hengoku is Deva Path. It can repel which is exactly one of the main abilities of the Deva Path. Remember the Deva Path includes repelling and attracting as its abilities. I don't see how it's speculative to say Rinbo: Hengoku is Deva Path. Is obvious Rinbo: Hengoku is a Deva Path jutsu since it repels. This is enough evidence so say Rinbo: Hengoku is Deva Path.--Rinneganmaster (talk) 04:01, January 26, 2014 (UTC)

What if it's a technique that sends some kind of invisible chakra punch? Like taijutsu, but even faster and with chakra? Seelentau 愛 04:22, January 26, 2014 (UTC)

It's already stated in the Rinbo: Hengoku article that Rinbo: Hengoku has an invisible force that is powerful enough to repel the tailed beasts so is not a chakra punch. This shows Rinbo: Hengoku has a repulsive force. Also Deva Path is stated to have attractive and repulsive forces. Based on this Rinbo: Hengoku's parent jutsu is Deva Path since it has a repulsive force similar to Shinra Tensei.--Rinneganmaster (talk) 05:04, January 26, 2014 (UTC)

You do realize that chakra is usually invisible, right? Now, sure it's likely it is a Deva Path technique. But the wiki finds it best to keep out speculation, which is what this is, really. Skitts (talk) 07:59, January 26, 2014 (UTC)

Even though its invisible it is still agreeable that it has a repulsive force. Considering the fact it was used by the rinnegan and it has a repulsive force, Rinbo: Hengoku is a Deva Path for sure. Its not speculation if it clearly demonstrates one of the main abilities of the parent jutsu.--Rinneganmaster (talk) 19:33, January 26, 2014 (UTC)

Missing Tools? Edit

I think their are some tools and weapons that are missing, and that should be added, such as the shakujo, and the chakra receivers are some of the weapons that are missing, how about adding that, it makes sense since he used them in his most recent battle in the war. Another thing worth mentioning is partners shouldn't it include Izuna, Spiral Zetsu and Zetsu.?--JustaNobody (talk) 20:19, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

Could you please properly format your text instead of making it look like a ransom note made of newspaper articles? About your questions, no. Chakra receiver was long changed to a jutsu page regarding how they come to be instead of having several different tool variations. He's not yielding an actual shakujo, he's just making the chakra take the form of one. Obito isn't listed as using them either. Unless they give that an actual name and call it an actual tool, like the did with Sword of Nunoboko, that doesn't happen. In the context of two-men teams, Madara was not partnered with any of those. With Izuna, he was alongside his entire clan, Zetsu clones aren't partners to him, their minions. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:34, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

Missing another unique ability? Edit

I think he is missing another unique ability that he possesses and shares with both Zetsu and Spiral Zetsu, namely his ability to telepathic communicate with both of the former characters. So is it worth mentioning?--JustaNobody (talk) 20:38, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

No, because he's never done it. Stop trying to hype Madara with every edit. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:34, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

I am just trying my best to contribute not to hype him up. That's all.--JustaNobody (talk) 22:48, February 8, 2014 (UTC)

He has done, it and in fact he did it to black zetsu, he told black zetsu telepathically that he was going to play with the 5 kages a little longer before he set out on the plan, and he told black zetsu what to do for the plan.. all via telepathic link to one another. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 11:46, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

Yet again, every Zetsu can talk to each other via telepathy. I think that's just a common thing that comes with them, just as they don't need food or water. I guess Madara can communicate with Black Zetsu because it's basically a copy of himself (compare Yamato and his Wood Clone, they can do such things too). Idontcareaboutmyname (talk) 12:08, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
Mentioning a chapter would be useful. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:03, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

I don't think it is general telepathy, only telepathy to his will, black zetsu. I don't remember chapter number but

http://naruto.answers.wikia.com/wiki/What_is_Madara's_trump_card

This talks about the chapter basically. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 21:55, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

Still needing something more specific. Madara versus the Five Kage spanned across three or four volumes. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:18, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
[1] ~SnapperTo 22:28, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

That ^ solved it, chapter 657 page 10 ItachiWasAHero (talk) 22:31, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

Ok, so Madara spoke telepathically, but only with Black Zetsu, not Zetsu in general, as it was claimed in the beginning of this article. Probably something to do with BZ being part of his will. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:43, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

Absorbing Chakra isn't a unique trait. Several other shinobis have been capable of it. Unique means no one else is capable of it.Cloudtheavenger (talk) 07:46, March 20, 2014 (UTC)

Unique can mean unusual or rare, he is one of only a few characters that has the ability to absorb chakra without needing to use a special technique to do it.TricksterKing (talk) 02:10, March 22, 2014 (UTC)

Madara was able to use Susanoo without using his Rinnegan. What's to say he can't use the Preta Path without the Rinnegan as well?Cloudtheavenger (talk) 21:11, March 23, 2014 (UTC)

Introduction? Edit

I don't really understand what's so harmful about detailing certain facts about him in the intro. We do this with every single article for a character but all of a sudden it's clutter to mention that Madara's a Jinchuriki? Might as well do the same for the rest of them (Naruto, B, Roshi, etc) --Mandon (talk) 07:44, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

The introduction is supposed to be a brief introduction of the character, leading into the article. For a lot of characters (Notable offenders in my mind is Tobi, Madara, and Kurama) where their intro because a place where their entire background section and current chapter status had been stuffed. That is bad. If anything the introductions should have been made in a way that they could remain static forever, not changing at the whim of the newest chapter.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 11:21, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
That's a ridiculous argument. Naruto, B, etc. have been jinchuriki since the day they appeared, and as such being a jinchuriki is fundamental to their characters. Madara's been a jinchuriki for two chapters. Zero similarity. ~SnapperTo 16:56, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

he is 179cm not 182cm Edit

Where is the proof for 182cm?? I am changing it back to 179 until databook, manga, or author himself give a number differing than 179 ItachiWasAHero (talk) 11:49, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

You could check the edit history of the infobox and ask the person who changed it directly. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:03, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

Summoning: Shinju? Edit

Is this also worth adding that he had summoned the Ten-Tailed Beast to his list of techniques alongside Sage Mode? Just wondering is all.--JustaNobody (talk) 02:47, February 13, 2014 (UTC)

Are we sure that was summoning and not the Gedo Mazo disappearing and Ten-Tails reappearing as part of its transformation? It seems to have disappeared out of the Uchiha Flame Formation last time it transformed.--BeyondRed (talk) 05:43, February 13, 2014 (UTC)

Gedo Mazo/Shinju are one and the same entity, all Rinnegan users can summon it.--Elveonora (talk) 12:07, February 13, 2014 (UTC)

Lightning Element Edit

Surely Madara should be attributed all elements? He has the Rinnegan and knows every other jutsu out there. The Rinnegan allowed Nagato to master all elements. It's all but been demonstrated that Madara has command of all elements.--Reliops (talk) 00:43, February 16, 2014 (UTC)

Madara's natural aptitude for ninjutsu may be similar to Hiruzen's and his possession of the Rinnegan certainly give him the "potential" to use all five elements, but that doesn't mean Madara has actually bothered to learn it. Steveo920, 19:50, February 15, 2014
Yes. Nagato is only listed as having them all because were told he learned them all. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:57, February 16, 2014 (UTC)

TRimming downEdit

He have won thanks to the throne on performance and strength phenomenal, in many cases, can be seen well, why did you not understand is I do not want to pay tribute? —This unsigned comment was made by Iloveinoxxx (talkcontribs) on 01:16, February 16, 2014 (UTC).

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? Seelentau 愛 01:23, February 16, 2014 (UTC)
I have no idea what the OP is trying to say. Now, I usually try to keep the article from getting bloated from new info. Still feel like Madara's article is bigger than it should be though. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:27, February 16, 2014 (UTC)
Madara's are not bloathed It is not the complete opposite it will be thorough. Or Seelentau, what is OP and mean what you?

—This unsigned comment was made by Iloveinoxxx (talkcontribs) on 10:18, February 16, 2014 (UTC).

What the...? ._.--Elveonora (talk) 14:21, February 16, 2014 (UTC)

(- _-) I will not stand for his trolling behaviour.--NaviiGator (A.K.A.KotoSenju)-Talk-Contributions 18:14, February 16, 2014 (UTC)

Why am I assuming your trolling am you are you in the world? If you do not understand, once again, read my question! By the way, I am a girl—This unsigned comment was made by Iloveinoxxx (talkcontribs) on 18:29, February 16, 2014 (UTC).

Oh this article is very bloated, and it is way bigger than it needs to be. I tried trimming it though, and the results were all reverted with small token removals. Honestly this article is just gonna be stupid big for no reason and there is very little that can be done with it.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 20:44, February 16, 2014 (UTC)
Not quite. True, some users have a fixation with bloating this article through numerous small edits, but I usually revert those edits, since they only add more of the same, which this article doesn't need. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:21, February 17, 2014 (UTC)

You guys do not understand, he is the strongest character and best, therefore, why, you need to have it does not explain everything, the best, the article of the largest he?Iloveinoxxx (talk) 14:18, February 18, 2014 (UTC)

I fear I may start disregarding your opinion on matters ILoveInoXXX. If for no other reason then how you stated why he should have a bloated article...--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 14:55, February 18, 2014 (UTC)

On the issue of height, Edit

It seems Obito is the same height as Madara according to chapter 665, so maybe databook 4 will list Madara around 175cm instead. Just a quick point out of something is all ItachiWasAHero (talk) 09:51, February 19, 2014 (UTC)

667 info Edit

It seems that the 8th gate causes Red Steam and Madara has fought and survived against 8th gate users in the past as evidenced by him even knowing about the red steam. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 07:31, March 5, 2014 (UTC)

Madara knows more about the shinobi history than anyone else. So it's normal that he knows what the green and red steam means. Seelentau 愛 07:46, March 5, 2014 (UTC)

Hmm, well that is generally true. But I doubt that he knows it on history alone. He fought in the war torn era and the uchiha monument speaks less generally on history so i doubt that it mentions anything about the 8 gates. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 07:56, March 5, 2014 (UTC)

He lived really long, there's plenty of times he could've fought a Taijutsu user on Guy's level. Seelentau 愛 07:58, March 5, 2014 (UTC)
Just because he knows how the eighth gate works, it doesn't necessarily mean he's fought someone who used it. For all we know, he watched someone fight, or even was just told about it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:46, March 5, 2014 (UTC)

Sasuke's Sword of Kusanagi worth adding? Edit

Is it worth adding Sasuke's Sword of Kusanagi because he used it temporarily on Sasuke to fatally wound him? In Madara's tools section?—This unsigned comment was made by JustaNobody (talkcontribs) .

Do we even list Itachi who used it for longer than that?--Elveonora (talk) 18:59, March 5, 2014 (UTC)
Personally, I think using a tool once would be enough to list the respective person as a wielder, but the majority here seems to think otherwise. But then again, why do people like Deidara or Kurotsuchi have "Sword" in their infobox when they used it in just one episode in two or maybe three instances? Noweeaboohoo (talk) 19:10, March 5, 2014 (UTC)
Lack of common direction/bias in some cases I would say. I guess what some would consider a "proper" usage would be either of them channeling their chakra through it or something--Elveonora (talk) 19:19, March 5, 2014 (UTC)
Now THAT would dwindle the user-part of the sword's infobox since hardly any of them does such a thing with them. Anyway, I get the "prominent usage" thing, but almost killing the second main character with a certain tool or having one major antagonist realise the crap he's in due to using the same tool to cut of his body parts seems to be prominent enough IMO. This whole case looks a bit premature, might need more discussion. Noweeaboohoo (talk) 19:26, March 5, 2014 (UTC)

Shoot, if someone picks it up and wields it, it should be added. --Now....Fall Under my Ultimate Genjutsu (talk) 19:29, March 5, 2014 (UTC)

There is and has always been a difference between listing someone as a use of a generic item - sure whatever, vs listing them as wielders of a named tool. If someone takes up the Kohaku no Johei and uses it as a bludgeoning tool, they are to be listed as using the item? Apply that train of thought to listing people as users of items.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 21:29, March 5, 2014 (UTC)

Overestimation in the Juubi Jinchuriki abilities section Edit

Two issues with this part of the article. Minato only said Madara had greater power in his Juubi Jin form than Obito, not "much" great power like the article says. Also, the article says that because he cut through Minato's body while in sage mode, that it means that he has less vulnerability to Sage mode. That is a ridiculous leap in logic, and it implies that Juubi Jinchuriki Obito would not be able to cut Minato in sage mode with a direct hit, which is simply nonsense.

My proposed changes are that we remove the "much" part in Madara's Juubi power in comparison to Obito, and remove the entire sentence about him being less vulnerable to Sage mode chakra because it's pure nonsense.

Kenny U (talk) 01:29, March 24, 2014 (UTC) Kenny U

UPDATE: As of now it has been fixed to an acceptable state, so that is fine now.

Kenny U (talk) 01:44, March 24, 2014 (UTC) Kenny U


New Jinchuriki Image Edit

Hi there, I noticed that the image used to show Madara as the Shinju's Jinchuriki is a little outdated, and I wondered if this could be considered as a replacement.

File:Madara_Rikudo_HD.png

--RIkudo (talk) 02:03, March 29, 2014 (UTC)

I could be wrong (But I'm not) But these images appear to be the exact same one, except yours is kinda grainy, and has cut off part of Madara's foot and one of his floaty orbs, while maintaining a text box I don't think is necessary. I'm not trying to be rude, and maybe they've replaced it or something since you put up this topic, but it would seriously appear to be a downgrade. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 02:11, March 29, 2014 (UTC)

Oh, in that case, sorry. And don't worry, you weren't rude, you were honest, and I appreciate that. --RIkudo (talk) 02:20, March 29, 2014 (UTC)

Same as a past revision of the current image we use for that, that wasn't used precisely because there's a part of the right page missing. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:39, March 29, 2014 (UTC)

Sensor Edit

I don't think Madara is a sensor. First of all, the reference to when he was a child is stupid. He says he's sensitive, not he's a sensor. Second, even people who aren't sensor ninjas can sense strong chakra. Suigetsu and Karin did so with Naruto's chakra. Is there anything else that hints at Madara being a sensor? If not, I suggest we remove that part. Seelentau 愛 18:55, April 1, 2014 (UTC)

The only instances that indicate that Madara is a sensor I recall are the detection of Hashirama, when he was still far away from the battlefield. Madara was the only at that moment that seemed to detect it, so even if Hashirama has strong chakra, him being the only one reacting to it for me indicates sensor abilities. There was also that one time when the Alliance did that huge combo against the Ten-Tails' first form, and Obito said something about them being incapable of sensing the Alliance after the dust and insects came into play, which always confused me a bit because he said that after trying to use the Sharingan. All other displays of sensor like ability I can think of are post theft of Hashirama's senjutsu chakra. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:06, April 1, 2014 (UTC)

Don't even try this one Seel. Why do you think he can't pee when someone stands behind, because he senses them of course.--Elveonora (talk) 22:23, April 1, 2014 (UTC)

Elve, do you really want me to check the raw? :D
Omni-kun, wouldn't Madara need to knead his chakra to sense Hashirama? Like Tobirama didn't do back then when they were kids? I don't think there are "automatic sensors"... Seelentau 愛 10:43, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
Figure he just molded his chakra during that moment. And there may or may not be automatic sensors.--Elveonora (talk) 12:24, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
Was there ever anyone who didn't need to do anything to sense chakra? Seelentau 愛 12:39, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
Naruto in chakra mode and sage mode?--Elveonora (talk) 12:41, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
That's a special form, not something every sensor ninja has. Seelentau 愛 12:48, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
Now you have something more in the table, Naruto sensed Indra inside Sasuke's, so there is a possibility that Madara sensed Hashirama because they had the same conection. Just wondering. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 13:00, April 2, 2014 (UTC)

Seel, even though Madara wasn't in the fight at the moment, I find it highly unlikely that he wouldn't at the very least be prepared to leap into it at a moment's notice, and that would include having chakra ready to use. Indra and Asura's chakra is still a situation outside normal sensor limits, if it indeed allows them to detect one another. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:21, April 2, 2014 (UTC)

Unique Traits Edit

Madara was able to use Susanoo without using his Rinnegan. What's to say he can't use the Preta Path without the Rinnegan as well? If so that doesn't count as a unique trait. Cloudtheavenger (talk) 07:13, April 7, 2014 (UTC)

The reason why he could use Susanoo with the Rinnegan was revealed to be because Susanoo doesn't even require any eyes at all.--Elveonora (talk) 12:47, April 7, 2014 (UTC)
Where was this mentioned?--Taynio (talk) 21:07, April 7, 2014 (UTC)
Re-read the chapters after Madara gets revived with Rinne Tensei and his eyes crumble. He used Susanoo without eyes there--Elveonora (talk) 22:52, April 7, 2014 (UTC)
Or it just means it has mastered his doujutsu to an extend he can use them (to an extent since he didn't or couldn't manifest the final Susanoo) without his eyes.Cloudtheavenger (talk) 06:19, April 8, 2014 (UTC)
If no one can counter it then I'm requesting deletion of his unique trait.Cloudtheavenger (talk) 04:39, April 12, 2014 (UTC)

Notice the Eye? Edit

Did anyone else notice from the latest chapter that Madara gained the juubi's eye on his forehead, similar to Kaguya's sharingan on her head?Jtw2014 (talk) 21:56, April 16, 2014 (UTC)Jtw2014

We don't really know what to make of that panel. We were either shown that Madara has the third eye on his forehead under the headband or Kaguya. I would have said the former myself, but that doesn't explain why then would Kishi draw Madara's normal eyes as white. If it were Madara, it would have made more sense to draw the third eye, right Rinnegan and left eye closed.--Elveonora (talk) 21:59, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

Madara's new Jinchuriki form has started to rise above the one Hagoromo had, with its tomoes at the sleeves, and his horn like appendages(one of which looks like a rabbit's ear) he started to resemble Kaguya. Gerisama (talk) 08:24, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

Storm release Edit

Can we wait until the full chapter comes out before adding this stuff? It really spoiles it for those that can't read japanese. Derigar (talk) 14:27, April 21, 2014 (UTC)

Why? We document what is known, there is a spoiler warning on the front page, so there's that. • Seelentau 愛 14:37, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
Are you like... serious? A mere visit to this place equals getting spoiled. You basically can't be an editor without knowing most the stuff, so just don't come here--Elveonora (talk) 14:42, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
And you get on Ten Tailed Fox for being rude...--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 14:45, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
Please don't go and tell people not to come here, that's rude. Unfortunately, you're kinda right with it, though. This is not a page were we list information released in English, but in Japanese, too. We're up-do-date, not up-to-some-fan's-date. • Seelentau 愛 14:50, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
Excuse my honesty then. But visiting this place and not wanting to get spoiled is like being hungry and entering a supermarket, then asking them to hide the goods because hanging them in front of your face makes you even more hungry.--Elveonora (talk) 15:02, April 21, 2014 (UTC)

To be fair, we were really quick with those information this time. The next time we get any kind of spoilers, we wait until the full chapter is released, alright? • Seelentau 愛 15:04, April 21, 2014 (UTC)

What does this have to do with Storm Release? and I also think you shouldn't be a user if you don't know all of the stuff. Munchvtec (talk) 15:49, April 21, 2014 (UTC)

Question. Madara`s Ranton is KKG or it TBS?Rage gtx (talk) 16:05, April 21, 2014 (UTC)

I think it should be clear by now that YYR allows users access to all 5 basic elements and mix them as they please.--Reliops (talk) 01:17, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Well well, what a bunch of hypocrits. Remove storm release, and wait before making these edits. Derigar (talk) 14:17, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Before calling others hypocrits, would you please read this?--JOA20 (talk) 14:22, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
Madara's Storm Release (and whatever other advanced nature he showcases other than Wood Release) probably comes from whatever Naruto is also getting them from. Either from the tailed beasts (he still has their chakra, as Obito was able to rip some of Gyuki and Shukaku), or some measure of that mixed with the "senjutsu of the Six Paths" as Madara called, whatever that is. Madara says he has both Naruto and Sasuke's powers, so wherever Naruto gets his, so does Madara. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:30, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Sage Classification Edit

As of chapter 674, Madara has used techniques specifically called "Sage Art". Please add Sage to Madara's classification section. Steveo920, 11:33, April 22, 2014

Using Senjutsu chakra alone doesn't make one a Sage. Otherwise Jugo would have been long listed, so would Curse Mark users. In my opinion a proper Sage is someone who can absorb natural energy from his/her surroundings--Elveonora (talk) 15:44, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Wrong, the senjutsu page specifically states that a sage is one that manipulates and utilizes senjutsu chakra, which Madara has done. Riptide240 (talk) 15:49, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

I also believe he is a sage now. Munchvtec (talk) 15:50, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Then the page/s need to be updated. Calling those who wield Senjutsu chakra without having absorbed nature energy and molded some Sages is like calling jinchuurikis Tailed Beasts because they wield the Tailed Beasts' chakras.--Elveonora (talk) 15:55, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

A sage is a sage and a jinchuriki is a jinchuriki. Tailed beast=beast with tails hmmm lets see jinchuriki can gain tails but never really have one and there not really beasts so yeah. Munchvtec (talk) 16:00, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

If Madara is a Sage then so are Jugo and Curse Mark wielders, that's all I'm saying. Madara got his Senjutsu from Hashirama and Shinju, no training and stuff.--Elveonora (talk) 16:04, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Senjutsu is not the same as sage arts but then why did madara call it sage art then? Munchvtec (talk) 16:06, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

It's the same. Senjutsu refers both to senjutsu chakra (chakra mixed with natural energy and balanced) and brand of techniques using said chakra. We haven't been told that there is a difference between "sage art:" and "sage technique:"--Elveonora (talk) 16:10, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

So then maybe we should label them as sages as well. Riptide240 (talk) 16:23, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Pre-jinchuriki Madara, I don't consider a Sage. He stole Hashirama's senjutsu chakra, he didn't make it himself. Jinchuriki Madara, I'm still murky about that, but choosing not to list him as such until other stuff gets clarified. I get that the Shinju is one giant mass of natural energy, but natural energy alone doesn't make senjutsu, it's blending that with chakra. I'm deeply thorn between my desire to bash Kishimoto in the head for doing the same with the logic of the manga and my desire to see the manga through the end. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:30, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Either way he should have a senjutsu section in his ability page, given that he used senjutsu abilities...and he may be considered a sage...the Sage of the 6 is considered a sage but his power came from the Shinju...Darksusanoo (talk) 23:21, April 23, 2014 (UTC)

We don't know if Hagoromo was a Sage because of Senjutsu. After all he was Sage OF THE Six Paths--Elveonora (talk) 12:01, April 24, 2014 (UTC)

Kakashi's Mangekyō Sharingan in Infobox Edit

In chapter 674, Madara steals Kakashi's left Sharingan and he can use Kamui easily. He control this eye and its abilities completely. You guys, what do you think about this?--Sulina (talk) 17:43, April 23, 2014 (UTC)

Error Edit

I don't see Kamui listed in Madara's jutsu can someone fix that?--Rinneganmaster (talk) 19:54, April 23, 2014 (UTC)

Null edit Kamui's article, then null edit Madara's article. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:53, April 23, 2014 (UTC)

I don't know how to do it so someone should do it instead.--Rinneganmaster (talk) 23:15, April 23, 2014 (UTC)

Straight tomoe Sharingan Edit

Can anyone explain what Madara means with this? Derigar (talk) 00:17, April 24, 2014 (UTC)

How can we explain something that is yet to be explained by the author?--Elveonora (talk) 12:33, April 24, 2014 (UTC)
I find Madara's statement about straight tomoe quite odd. Sasuke I understand why his EMS would be straight tomoe, neither his original MS nor Itachi's had straight tomoe, but Sasuke's EMS had. Madara's original MS didn't have straight tomoe, Izuna's are the ones that looked straight, and after Madara transplanted those eyes, there was no change in the basic design of the tomoe like it happened with Sasuke. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:05, April 24, 2014 (UTC)

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