Talk:Madara Uchiha

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Jinchuriki Madara's Hair/skin color

The Anime and Game already portrayed Madara's skin as white with a greenish tint and his hair as white, making it a lot more similar to Obito's Jinchuriki form than we thought, color wise at least, so why do you keep that dated picture with the red hair in his description when we know those colored chapters weren't official? Sasuke's Rinnegan and Naruto Six paths Senjutsu form were miscolored in those as well...--ClowR (talk) 04:25, June 10, 2015 (UTC)

I agree. That entire coloration of manga was wrong, we shouldn't be using it. ★WindStar7125 04:29, June 10, 2015 (UTC)

It's not the first time the anime has coloured things differently than the manga, although you have a point about the chapters not being official. Plus, Obito's hair turned white because he used Outer Path — Samsara of Heavenly Life Technique to resurrect Madara, like how Nagato's hair turned white when he used it to resurrect Konoha. Arawn 999 (talk) 05:09, June 10, 2015 (UTC)

The issue is that neither source (coloured manga or anime) has any known involvement with Kishimoto. What tends to happen is that they do their own thing until Kishimoto's team releases their own coloured image, and then the anime either changes their depiction, or keeps their own one for the sake of consistency. Neither source is infallible and it's hard for us to say which is right and which is wrong when we've never seen Madara's Jinchuriki form coloured by Kishimoto's team.--Soul reaper (talk) 05:39, June 10, 2015 (UTC)

I understand that the anime sometimes mistakenly color things, it's first depiction of the Rinnegan a prime example, however it's not like they're always wrong, besides I highly doubt Kishimoto is going to go back and draw a colored version of Madara's Jinchuriki form anytime soon, so we should just take what we can get and consider the anime depiction as official as it's gonna get, instead of waiting for something that may never come, in any case that colored picture in his description is wrong, I used to think it was not when I first saw it at the time, since it made Madara seem closer to Hagoromo, regardless, I like the fact that the anime team made it similar to Obito's form color wise, since it makes the Juubi Jinchuriki forms more consistent between it's two hosts.--ClowR (talk) 06:40, June 10, 2015 (UTC)

I think the digitally colored manga made Madara's hair color to match Hagoromo's since he was also the Ten-Tails Jinchūriki. But the problem with that is we're only seen Hagoromo's hair color after the Ten-Tails was unsealed from him, which afterwards would of turned his hair back to its normal color of red. Well at least that was the case with Madara's hair returning to black. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 07:49, June 10, 2015 (UTC)

Yet Hagoromo's ghost still possessed the appearance of Six Paths Ten-Tails Coffin Seal and all the powers he had as the Ten-Tails' Jinchuriki when he appeared to Naruto and Sasuke. Arawn 999 (talk) 13:46, June 10, 2015 (UTC)

@Arawn 999, thing is we don't even know if Hagoromo ever used Coffin Seal, and he had this apperence before he became Ten-Tails' Jinchuriki -(chapter 680, Kaguya memory) ./ Rage gtx (talk) 13:52, June 10, 2015 (UTC)

If the manga colourations are wrong, then remove them. I don't see how this discussion has anything to do with improving the article or the wiki either. --Sajuuk _[Mod] ^{talk | contribs | Channel} 14:02, June 10, 2015 (UTC)

There's no reason for Madara's hair to be red. Kaguya's hair is white, Madara was jinchuuriki of her not Hagoromo--Elve _[Mod] ^{Talk Page|Contribs} 16:51, June 10, 2015 (UTC)

Rinnegan Subsection Pic

Any chance we can get the previous Rinnegan pic for his subsection pertaining to this? Not sure why this was changed to begin with. Just curious.--Mina ^{talk | contribs} 00:22, June 18, 2015 (UTC)

NVM :)--Mina ^{talk | contribs} 11:52, June 18, 2015 (UTC)

TT Jinch collar color

In the game and anime opening it's red, but in the anime episodes it seems black?--Elve _[Mod] ^{Talk Page|Contribs} 16:58, July 2, 2015 (UTC)

TT Jinchuriki and the Otsutsuki clan

I'm not certain if this is the appropriate section to inquire, so feel free to delete this if necessary. I've noticed that that Kinshiki has a flesh-like appendage similar to Madara's Jinchuriki form. Should info be included to indicate that there may be some correlation between the Otsutski clan and the Madara's form as the Ten Tails Jinchuriki?Lokker G (talk) 20:34, July 16, 2015 (UTC)

Of course there is, it's obvious. Pale skin, Byakugan, Rinnegan... but some things don't need to be stated, wait until they are officially confirmed, be patient. Until then, anyone is free to connect the dots.--Elve _[Mod] ^{Talk Page|Contribs} 21:58, July 16, 2015 (UTC)

Final missing technique, that is all.

There is one final technique that he is missing as part of his body modifications, it is called Hokage-Style Sixty-Year-Old Technique — Kakuan Entering Society with Bliss-Bringing Hands, since it enabled him to control the Tailed Beasts without any eye techniques, that is all. Is that final thing worth adding?--JustaNobody (talk) 17:58, July 23, 2015 (UTC)

Wanna provide a manga scan or reference an episode as proof?--Mina ^{talk | contribs} 18:00, July 23, 2015 (UTC)

I do not have explicit proof, but the enhancements seem to provide him with ability to control the tailed beasts, and just because he didn't use it all, does not mean he did not have it.--JustaNobody (talk) 18:06, July 23, 2015 (UTC)

That's not a nice logic you have there. Hey, lets add him as a Byakugan user. I mean, quoting you: just because he didn't use it all, does not mean he did not have it. Right? Oh and lets add Rasengan and Flying Thunder God as well. • Seelentau 愛 ^議 18:09, July 23, 2015 (UTC)

If you don't have explicit proof, don't add it. ★WindStar7125 18:12, July 23, 2015 (UTC)

Well in his defense guys, that logic is applicable in certain situations. This one though, not even close. There's nothing here that's even implied that Madara had access to this technique.--Mina ^{talk | contribs} 18:14, July 23, 2015 (UTC)

He has a history of inserting false information (to Madara's article in particular). I just don't want him to do it again, otherwise, he'll just see more trouble, which I wouldn't like to see. But back to the topic, there isn't anything that even suggests he had the technique. So, unless there is any suggestion or proof, just don't add it. ★WindStar7125 18:23, July 23, 2015 (UTC)

If Madara hasn't been seen using a technique or doing certain things, it doesn't go anywhere in his article. The fact you took it here first before adding it is proof you've made some progress so I'll give you points for that.Cloudtheavenger (talk) 22:00, August 8, 2015 (UTC)

Kekkei Mora

Not being an direct bloodline to Kaguya means his Rinne Sharingan is a Kekkei Genkai not a Kekkei Mora--Keeptfighting (talk) 13:11, July 24, 2015 (UTC)

Was it ever stated that Madara's Rinne Sharingan is a Kekkei Genkai?--JOA²⁰13:15, July 24, 2015 (UTC)

He doesn't have KKM characteristic if it's that's what you talking about. /. Rage gtx (talk) 13:16, July 24, 2015 (UTC)

The Rinne Sharingan has nothing to do with Kaguya's bloodline, lol. • Seelentau 愛 ^議 13:23, July 24, 2015 (UTC)

Kekkei Mōra means Bloodline Encompassing. We saw her son having the Rinnegan. And indra became the Sharingan. Of course it has nothing to do with Bloodline.. Then of course KKM only for Kaguya and direct Bloodline, which isnt Madara. So his isnt a KKM but more a KKG which he got from being the TT-Jin. Like Four-Tails and Lava Release. One more example being the Byakugan, it is a KKM for Kaguya but not for the others, which means the first Byakugan was KKM but all the others werent. So it is with Madaras Rinne Sharingan.--Keeptfighting (talk) 11:12, July 25, 2015 (UTC)

Kaguya didn't get the Rinne Sharingan through her Bloodline either, so by your logic, it shouldn't be a kekkei mora for her either. She acquired it almost the same way Madara did. Also, just because it says Bloodline in kekkei mora, it doesn't mean that it's Limited to the Bloodline. That would be a kekkei genkai. • Seelentau 愛 ^議 11:18, July 25, 2015 (UTC)

Lol not the same way with Madara. Madara didn't even acquired it. It was literally Kaguya's Rinne Sharingan popping out of Madara's forehead and when BZ "transformed" Madara into Kaguya - the eye was only thing that remained unchanged.(just check out chapter 680) Semantically we have two person as owners of same eye while both of them owning it simultaneously. If Bi will dance with his tentacles we won't say that he became octo-man or say that has tentacles(because who has them Hachibi) but this apparently thing with Madara and Rinne Sharingan. ./ Rage gtx (talk) 12:32, July 25, 2015 (UTC)

Anyway her Rinne Sharingan is a KKM because she owns it like her Byakugan and any other Jutsu she use, while Madara is not a direct bloodline to her. So the Rinne Sharingan possessed by Madara cannot be a KKM.--Keeptfighting (talk) 13:55, July 25, 2015 (UTC)

Novel debut

Madara was mentioned in Kakashi Hiden....is that considered a novel debut? I say no, but I've been contested on this for weeks. A final ruling on how we should handle this would be ideal.--Mina ^{talk | contribs} 23:55, August 27, 2015 (UTC)

You missed this. And we did the same for Sasuke Sarutobi, so that's why I restored the edit. ★WindStar7125 23:58, August 27, 2015 (UTC)

So it seems. That must be why novel isn't checked off in the infobox too. If everyone else agreed to it, then yeah sure we can stick to that. I don't think anyone else cares enough though haha.--Mina ^{talk | contribs} 00:01, August 28, 2015 (UTC)

new profile image

Uploaded another image from the same episode, anyone thinks we should relace it? personally I like his expression beter..Chieko ^_^ (talk) 14:22, January 15, 2016 (UTC)

Agree. --Rautamiekka (talk) 18:23, January 15, 2016 (UTC)

Anime only in episode 458

in episode 458 when Bz stabbed him in the back and put his will into him, he was still conscious and thought about his actions before turning into kaguya, this was not in manga Fanking (talk) 01:57, December 19, 2016 (UTC)

Irrelevant to point out here, this is just the anime padding an episode with flashbacks for time. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:23, December 19, 2016 (UTC)

Mid March editing war

So, if anyone has seen the edit history in this article recently, you'll see there was a revert war. Some back and forth discussion has been going on between myself and the user. I probably should have brought this to an article talk page earlier, but alas, the page protection is about to expire, and I see no need for this to continue once it does, so I'm putting this here on an easier to find place, and inviting community input. All the arguments put forward by Tomer3x3 so far look flawed to me, as I explained in his talk page, but I don't think he'll be backing down. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:26, March 24, 2017 (UTC)

I won't change the page again but I'm still think I'm right about my editing. So I'll be glad to see other opinions and what others think about the changes I did.--Tomer3x3 (talk) 02:00, March 26, 2017 (UTC)

Legacy: Fact/Speculation

I only ask this, so as to avoid another editing war. Considering Madara's intention of uniting the world in a genjutsu to prevent future conflict, should there be a minor mention of how it's from these plans that caused the five countries to unite to prevent it? Granted the war was declared by Tobi, and it's only a result of that war that the Infinite Tsukuyomi is connected, but it's because of Madara that Obito went down this path. I'll accept if this is too disconnected to be mentioned, but I truly find there's a sense of irony in the way Madara's attempts to end conflict, only for the five countries becoming united and eventually ending conflict among each other. One revert was a bit confusing. I would have been fine with it being too speculative, but "Madara didn't declare the war" seemed too anal a reason to revert the entire edit, when there was more than just the war being mentioned with Madara's actions. I've thought about my edit to a certain degree, so I can accept that it might have been too speculative.Lokker G (talk) 01:22, April 11, 2017 (UTC)

And Madara himself only went down the path he did because he was directly and indirectly manipulated by Black Zetsu, and by extension Kaguya. He was a bigger middle man than Obito, but a middle man still. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:31, April 11, 2017 (UTC)

Number of Madara's deaths

In the Legacy section of the article, it is stated that Madara died for the second time after entrusting his mission to Obito. This means that he first died after being defeated by Hashirama. However, he used Izanagi to change the reality and thus brought himself back to life. So as per my interpretation, his death following his defeat at the hands of Hashirama does not count as a death because the use of Izanagi changed that fact. Analogically, Danzo used Izanagi several times against Sasuke. However, this does not mean that he died several times. He only died once when he really died. So Madara died Twice: First when he died after bequeathing his mission to Obito and Second when he died after Kaguya was sealed away. Am I correct? Aizaz Arif (talk) 20:23, May 26, 2017 (UTC)

Considering Madara's Izanagi was set to take effect after his death, it did count as one.--Elve _[Mod] ^{Talk Page|Contribs} 12:47, May 27, 2017 (UTC)

Using Preta Path without Rinnegan

This wiki says that Madara absorbed Amaterasu and dropped clothes that were burning after he was revived and lost his eyes. But isn't it the case that he dropped the burning clothes because he couldn't absorb the flames? There's no visual cues of him absorbing anything, and when he drops his armour instead of absorbing we get a reaction from Hashi. I'm pretty sure Hashirama just thought he could still absorb chakra and didn't realize his eyes had dissolved. Any objections? AsianReaper (talk) 12:29, August 27, 2019 (UTC)

Where exactly is that said, do we have a reference? Without double checking, my guess is that he dropped already somewhat burned clothes after absorbing Amaterasu. That stops his clothes from burning, but you can't unburn what was already consumed. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:19, September 8, 2019 (UTC)

It's actually Naruto that implies Madara absorbed the flames, not Hashirama — early scanlators just messed up the dialogue order. Hashirama questions why Madara closed his eyes, whereas Naruto tells Sasuke it's pointless to throw ninjutsu at Madara, since he can just absorb them. Not sure how relevant it is, but I guess Naruto is more likely to be wrong about what's going on than Hashirama is. Anyway, it's worth noting that the way it's drawn looks similar to when Kaguya absorbs Amaterasu in chapter 682, and she definitely wasn't using Preta Path. So if Madara really did absorb the flames, I'd say it's more likely he's just using the generic chakra absorption ability used by Yoroi, Kisame, etc. We've never seen it used to absorb actual ninjutsu before that point, but there's nothing saying it can't either.--BeyondRed (talk) 00:40, September 8, 2019 (UTC)

Continuity Error

In Madara's Bio in the Dojutsu/Rinnegan section it says "as the eyes original owner only he can bring out their full power" Those eyes were not originally his?! They were his brothers which eventually evolved into the Rinnegan. If that info came from the manga its wrong and creates a paradox of which Kishimoto has admitted to making mistakes in forgetting stuff. All references to being their original owner and bringing out full power should be removed from Madara's bio, the Rinnegan page and the Wiki. User:the orginal midas

Explainable if by "original eyes" in this case it means he's the one who awakened them as Rinnegan. They might have been Izuna's eyes, but they were never Izuna's Rinnegan. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:11, January 23, 2020 (UTC)

That maybe how you see the definition of "original" Omnibender but that's not how the English language see's the meaning of the word "original" which is my problem with this info. Which means your speculating on the authors words not going by a factual basis according to the English language or human biology. The eyes are originally Izuna's and they may have awakened into a Rinnegan because Madara stole some of Hashirama's flesh/blood/chakra but at the end of the day they were not the eyes he was born with. Why is it in every talk section Ive seen on this wiki everyone looks for reasons to not change things appropriately when needed? User:the original midas

What would you like to be done? There's a reference for the information, and the referenced line (said by Obito) is: "Yet I, who am not its original owner, was able to accomplish this much with just one. If both Rinnegan are restored to their true owner, I fear no one will be able to stand against him." The information in the article(s) is accurate to the series and that's all the the wiki can do. If you want to make the case that what the series says is not strictly true then you are free to do that, but your views do not outweigh the source material. ~SnapperTo 06:28, January 25, 2020 (UTC)

Body Modifications : "physically more capable than ever"

Hi, Madara wasn't physically stronger when kabuto modify his body. Nothing at all indicates that, so I think it should be removed. Jonn4043 (talk) 14:03, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

While IIRC he may not have been quite as strong as he was in-life due to the nature of Edo Tensei, Madara's modified body was that of his physical prime while giving him access to the Rinnegan and Wood Release, which he only had access to much later in life. So while Edo Madara may not have been "physically more capable than ever" he was certainly more powerful than he had been in-life. Ascha'Vovina (talk) 19:13, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

He was definitely more versatile with the Rinnegan and wood realse, but I don't think he was more powerful, at least when it comes to raw power. Madara said to the five kage that it's time to show his full power and then he activated Perfect Susanoo. Hashirama confirms that Madara in his live form is stronger than his Edo Tensei version, both edo and live version of Madara have Perfect Susnoo so alive Madara's Perfect Susnoo should be somewhat stronger (I still think edo version will win in a fight though). By the way I am new here, what are the rules about editing pages? Thanks. Jonn4043 (talk) 14:27, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

Him having more powers than he had when he was first alive is what made him more powerful, regardless of being stronger as Edo Tensei or not. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:34, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

No. Madara's full power is PS, said by himself. Both Edo Madara and alive Madara have PS, any other jutsu is irrelevant to PS, the diffrence between them is that Alive Madara don't have edo tensei restrection - being only close to his full power (exactly as Tobirama said to Orochimaru).Jonn4043 (talk) 04:03, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Adding the information of Madara being physically more capable is based on what? I Would love to see something in the managa that support that statment. Until that, this statment is just a speculation as it base on nothing - I see no reason to keep it on Madara page.Jonn4043 (talk) 04:03, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Madara's Mangekyō Sharingan

In madara subsection of mangekyo sharingan it says "the straight tomoe of his Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan", straight tomoe is mangekyo sharingan trait, as Madara said to sauske: "your mangekyo are choku tomoe, a straight patteran". Later he said that sasuke awakened it, and they may share relationship beyond blood (he was right) - both are Indra incarnations, so their sharinagn\mangekyo are unique. —This unsigned comment was made by Jonn4043 (talk • contribs) on 14:42, 16 June 2022.

Not quite sure on what you're trying to say, but if I have an idea, I believe it has to do with the "tomoe" or additional patterns that were gained upon receiving Izuna's eyes. Although visually it is a trait of gaining the EMS, it significantly improves usability and capabilities with it, such as improvements in fluidity.
-Ventillate { 👤 | 💬 | 🔧 }
20:35, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

What I'm trying to say is that it's not EMS trait but a Mangekyo (and possibly Indra incarnation) trait, because:

1. When Madara first talked about the straight patteran, his said only Mangekyo and not Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan.

2. Madara said that Sasuke awakened the striaght patteran, EMS is somthing that you gain and not awakened.

3. After Madara said that Sasuke awakened it, he said there is something more than blood that conneceted them - being Indra incarnations.

To sum it up, in order to have a striaght patteran you have to awakene it with Mangekyo Sharningan and possibly be Indra incarnation, there is nothing to do with Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan becuase not even once it implies that it's connected to EMS.Jonn4043 (talk) 08:00, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

I still don't understand what you are trying to argue here. I'm not sure what an "Indra-like" trait actually is. If you're talking about successions of the Indra lineup, then Sasuke and Madara would fit alongside the lines of them. The other thing is that Madara was unable to discern the similarities between him and Sasuke due to Indra's lineup, so it is unclear on whether that is officially the case according to him. In terms of EMS it is awakened if you have the other pair of Mangekyō Sharingan. Also with the rarity of EMS that were actually awakened in the entire Uchiha lineup, you can't have a solid ground to say that a "straight pattern" is more so due to Indra's successors. We just don't have enough information to suggest or prove that.
-Ventillate { 👤 | 💬 | 🔧 }
12:50, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

I said possibly, It's not something that I'm sure cause it was never stated in the manga but it's implied. So I agree that adding it without solid information might unnecessary. Anyway my main point here is that it says in the subsection of Madara's Mangekryo Sharginan: "The "straight tomoe" of his Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan..." when it should be: The "straight tomoe" of his Mangekyō Sharingan..." (same goes for Sasuke on his page). —This unsigned comment was made by Jon4043 (talk • contribs) on 06:39, 18 June 2022.

Izuna also awakened the MS and it had straight Tomoe, Madara knows this and saw his MS yet he says only himself and Sasuke have awakened Choku Tomoe and must be connected somehow.. now the only two people ever to awaken the Choku Tomoe are Madara and Sasuke.. you know why? Because Madara is referring to their EMS which both have straight Tomoe on them. Madara calls the EMS the Choku Tomoe, Itachi was the one who called it Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan. They both clearly have different names for the Combined Mangekyo which only Madara and Sasuke have awakened. BloodOfTheArchon (talk) 16:16, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

It's cool way to see it but there is a problem with idea because both Itachi and Hashirama calls it Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan so there is no reason for Madara to refer it differently. More over, Madara said that Sasuke awaken it, EMS is somthing you gain and not awaken. In conclusion the manga shows stronger base for a straight patteran to MS trait and not sommthing that connected to EMS, not only that but it's implied to be Indra trait - Madara says that Sasuke awaken a straight patteran and they both have the straight patteran thus there might be a connection between them beyond blood.Jonn4043 (talk) 18:43, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

You're theorizing regardless. There was no proof in that matter regarding the connection, just something Madara hypothesized about to the best of his knowledge. Also in order to awaken the EMS, you need to gain a 2nd pair of Mangekyō, so the wordage would deem as irrelevant in that case.
-Ventillate { 👤 | 💬 | 🔧 }
19:25, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

Theorizing? I'm literally quoting the manga. Also I never said it's a fact, it's implied though. Again that is the point, you aren't awaken EMS so it is very relevant when Madara said "awakend".Jonn4043 (talk) 19:44, 25 June 2022 (UTC)