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Deceased vs. Incapacitated

His body exploded to pieces, and in his place Kaguya returns to life. How is he incapacitated? He should be noted as deceased, like Obito is now. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 06:29, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

I could be wrong but I doubt Kishimoto would kill off someone like Madara like that. With that immortality he acquired, I'm not sure what to believe about his status even if he is blown to bits.--Hockey Machete (talk) 06:33, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

Well, Madara's body kind of "shrunk down", it isn't like he went "boom" and then Kaguya appeared. It's a bit weird, that much at least.--JOA20 (talk) 06:35, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

I think Madara isn't completely dead yet, as Hashi taught Sasuke a jutsu that responds to the senjutsu chakra Madara absorbed from Hashi, in an effort to stop and save him. Wisenoob (talk) 06:56, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

Presumed Deceased exists for cases like this one--Elveonora (talk) 10:57, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

Madara was transformed into Kaguya. That's more like incapacitated than presumed deceased. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 11:10, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
Except incapacitated sounds like a temporary condition. Do you expect Kaguya to mutate back into Madara or something?--Elveonora (talk) 11:20, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
That Kaguya would relinquish control, no. That it would be feasible, yes. We've seen the other tailed beasts coming back into existence after they were merged into the Shinju, this isn't much different. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 11:46, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
They actually weren't merged, they were simply inside the statue. Madara isn't deceased only if his consciousness is still there somewhere and his soul hasn't gone to the pure world. Although I don't see how could that be, considering he was torn apart--Elveonora (talk) 12:04, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
Seriously, how are people seeing him exploding and what not? When he reached critical mass and was completely covered by BZ, he clearly began shrinking back down, taking Kaguya's form. There was no tearing apart, no explosion. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 12:06, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
I meant those tumor-like blobs.--Elveonora (talk) 12:13, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

Abnormal growth, sign of instability, same thing happened to Obito before he got a firm grip on Shinju's power. Shrank down once it got stable, same here, just with the other side winning. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 12:16, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

Right now, Incapacitated. No real way to know if he's a corpse or not which I doubt he is considering Kaguya just used his body to to become herself. Basically as long as Kaguya is alive, so is Madara, if only on a very technical sense.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 13:25, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

The Truth Seeking Balls he placed on Hashirama and Minato disintegrated. Doesn't that indicate Madara's demise? Yatanogarasu (Talk) 01:42, June 12, 2014 (UTC)

It indicates Madara lost control over those items, just like how he lost control and was overtaken by Kaguya. WindStar7125 (Talk)WindStar7125 (talk) 00:50, June 13, 2014 (UTC)

I think it indicates that he is indeed dead. His chakra can't maintain them anymore and if someone's chakra disappears, that means they're dead.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 01:54, June 13, 2014 (UTC)
Agreed. I think the presumed deceased tag is deserved in this instance. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 02:07, June 13, 2014 (UTC)
Madara's chakra is gone and the remnants of his presence (his rods and TSB) have disintegrated. I agree. Presumed deceased should be the label used. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 06:20, June 13, 2014 (UTC)
He might be deader than dead too since his soul is presumably consumed or destroyed by Kaguya's takeover, thus his weapons disintegrating.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 02:10, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
It is possible that Madara has died, but it is still too early to say for sure, which is why "presumed deceased" is what should be used. The specifics of what exactly happened to Madara hasn't even been confirmed yet. All we have is speculation. Do you honestly think Madara would be killed off in a snap, without any actual closure? The fact that Black Zetsu rewrote the Uchiha stone tablet into saying the things that drove Madara over the edge even makes it possible that he might return to redeem himself. Madara's fate isn't clear, which is why we can only presume he's dead. Hot Cakes (talk) 21:44, June 24, 2014 (UTC)

Absorption Soul User

Madara should be a user of the Absorption Soul Jutsu. Obito said he could use the human path to extract information and since Obito learned the Six Path Jutsu from Madara, that means Madara can use the Absorption Soul jutsu. Also Obito can perform Izanagi since he learned Uchiha forbidden techniques from Madara therefore making a Madara a user of the Izanagi. Same idea should apply to Madara also being a user of the Absorption Soul jutsu.--Rinneganmaster (talk) 19:42, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

That's why he has each Path technique listed, as in Animal Path, Deva Path, etc. This is a case where we don't have it as clearly defined as Deva Path and each individual technique. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:36, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

Obito can use the Absorption Soul Jutsu no doubt about that. My point is that Madara should be able to use Absorption Soul Jutsu since Obito learned all of his rinnegan jutsu from Madara. --Rinneganmaster (talk) 05:36, June 5, 2014 (UTC)

Madara taught Obito Six Paths Technique. Omni's point is that a single Path (besides Deva and Outer which are known to have more) may have more than just one technique--Elveonora (talk) 11:04, June 5, 2014 (UTC)

Okay that is reasonable.--Rinneganmaster (talk) 21:08, June 5, 2014 (UTC)

Page Images Vandalism

There are two images that were vandalized, in Personality section. One depicts the Flash, and the other... reminds me some achievement.--VolteMetalic (talk) 10:20, June 9, 2014 (UTC)

Okay, I found some more. But they seem to be only when visually looking. When you click on it, it is correct. Hmm... odd.--VolteMetalic (talk) 10:24, June 9, 2014 (UTC)

Strongest Uchiha?

Now that Sasuke has attained the power of the Six Paths and overwhelmed Madara multiple times, should Madara still be listed as the strongest uchiha?--ElvinWindSword (talk) 23:19, June 12, 2014 (UTC)

Interested in knowing also. Bump SusanooUnleashed (talk) 14:17, June 15, 2014 (UTC)

Madara is still stronger.
  • more experience
  • YYR
  • 3 Rinnegan
  • Wood Release
  • Shinju's jinchuuriki

While Sasuke is still young, has only Yin Release, 1 Rinnegan, (until confirmed otherwise) has no Wood Release and isn't a jinchuuriki. Am I missing something? Also it isn't our job to decide anyway, but the author's.--Elveonora (talk) 14:38, June 15, 2014 (UTC)

Not to mentioned Sasuke was never shown overwhelming Madara anyway. Madara both let him cut him in half and rendered everything Sasuke and Naruto threw at him in the end futile. (The Fox King (talk) 23:37, July 16, 2014 (UTC))

Deceased?

It's incredibly premature to list him as such since we know nothing about what happened to him. --Mandon (talk) 06:56, June 15, 2014 (UTC)

I wouldn't say that. Remember when Kakashi died and his chakra completely vanished? Since Madara's chakra and anything related to it is gone, I'd say it's accurate to say that he's dead.--Hockey Machete (talk) 07:14, June 15, 2014 (UTC)

Death isn't the only thing that can make someone's chakra "vanish". When Sasuke hid inside Manda and unsummoned him his chakra was said to vanish. The fact that someone's chakra can no longer be sensed is not always a definitive indication as to their status.--Soul reaper (talk) 15:39, June 15, 2014 (UTC)

Appearance of Mangekyou

Is there a need to describe what his Mangekyou looks like in the abilities section? Shouldn't that be placed into the appearance section, or the Mangekyou Sharingan page? D.Phoenix (talk) 05:47, June 18, 2014 (UTC)

Susanoo clad Kurama anime picture?

Is the anime picture of Madara's final Susanoo-clad Kurama worth adding? If so? Can somebody please do so?--JustaNobody (talk) 21:12, June 19, 2014 (UTC)

Not enough space. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:16, June 19, 2014 (UTC)

Maybe by removing repetitive lines, maybe that can free up some space to add the picture, and have those removed lines added to the Mangekyō Sharingan overview and info? Maybe? Maybe not?--JustaNobody (talk) 23:40, June 19, 2014 (UTC)

That's very rich coming from you, your Madara edits are the most repetitive and over-bloating there are. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:35, June 20, 2014 (UTC)

It was just a simple request is that so difficult, really?--JustaNobody (talk) 06:16, June 20, 2014 (UTC)

Tailed Beast Control to jutsu list?

Is it worth adding the technique Tailed Beast Control to Madara's jutsu list, since it is mentioned under his abilities?--JustaNobody (talk) 02:48, June 21, 2014 (UTC)

That's just Genjutsu: Sharingan--Elveonora (talk) 11:35, June 21, 2014 (UTC)
Further, Tailed Beast Control isn't so much a technique, but a...type of skill. Like being able to throw a kunai, if you will.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 11:42, June 21, 2014 (UTC)

I guess he is dead

If Naruto and Sasuke are going to seal Kaguya then there's no chance of Madara returning to the series. Does that give us grounds to list him as deceased? --Mandon (talk) 22:31, June 21, 2014 (UTC)

As of now, they're only planning to seal Kaguya away. They haven't done it yet. Madara's fate is still unknown, which is why "presumed deceased" is what should be used.Hot Cakes (talk) 21:46, June 24, 2014 (UTC)

Infobox image

Which one do you prefer to be set in the infobox? The current one or the image that uploaded by M4ND0N‎? —Shakhmoot Nadeshiko Village Symbol (Talk) 23:09, June 21, 2014 (UTC)

I guess since it's clear where my position on this stands, I'll list my pros and cons.

Pros: - Frontal view - Natural color scheme of the armor [bright red, not darkened via Edo Tensei] - Image of Madara while he was alive and not an Edo Tensei Cons: - He's using Susanoo so the lighting's a little messed up.

However in my defense of this, the Susanoo isn't as noticeable when viewed from afar in an infobox and it just makes him seem a little blue-ish, but we previously used one with a blue tint in the past as well. It's still in my opinion the best image of Madara currently available and it wouldn't be permanent, since there's certainty of a better one arising in the coming episodes. I guess it comes down to whether you'd want a non-Edo image now or wait for one without Susanoo to arise. I don't see a problem with using it now, however. --Mandon (talk) 00:28, June 22, 2014 (UTC)

Why change it now? We have at least two to three flashback episodes that will have a plethora of images showing him alive, in the daylight, and in his prime. Why settle for something that is inherently flawed (no offense Mandon, its just that the Susanoo does effect the quality of the image) when we could literally wait a week or two at most and take our pick of the litter? ~ Ten Tailed Fox 20px 00:36, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
I agree with Ten Tailed - wait to change it. The current one can last a couple of more weeks. --Kasan94 Nara Symbol Talkpage 01:19, June 22, 2014 (UTC)

Isn't it official now that Hashirama is talking about reviving Madara that he is dead?--ElvinWindSword (talk) 19:43, July 3, 2014 (UTC)

They think he is dead. They still don't know for sure. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:58, July 3, 2014 (UTC)

And again

Which one do you prefer to be set in the infobox? The current one or the image that uploaded by M4ND0N‎? —Shakhmoot Nadeshiko Village Symbol (Talk) 21:00, July 10, 2014 (UTC)

The current one. The image doesn't need changed at all. Nothing wrong with it at all. --SuperSajuuk Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | Channel 21:05, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
The badass one--Elveonora (talk) 21:10, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
I would still say the current one, out of those two --Kasan94 Nara Symbol Talkpage 21:11, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
The current one, because it's the most iconic look of him (red armor included)--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 21:23, July 10, 2014 (UTC)

Of course it needs to be changed, Sajuuk. The current image never should have been used to begin with. We only chose it because we assumed at the end of chapter 656 that that it was an accurate depiction of how Madara would look after being resurrected, since his eyes hadn't disintegrated yet. We don't use reanimation images if an acceptable living image of the character is available.. I'm pretty sure that precedent was established long ago, and this image was the only one to break it. --Mandon (talk) 22:39, July 10, 2014 (UTC)

Mandon, from the preview of the next episode, I find the smiled Madara's screenshot is very good one to be set in the infobox. But as TU3-sama said that the red armor is the symbol of this character. I think it's better to keep it, let's wait for the next episode to see that. —Shakhmoot Nadeshiko Village Symbol (Talk) 22:54, July 10, 2014 (UTC)

He doesn't have his armor in that one either. Plus there's no guarantee we will get a suitable image of him in his armor during this flashback.. what then? I don't think it's appropriate to keep an Edo Tensei image when there's plenty of viable images of him while he's alive. I guess we'll cross that road when we come to it. --Mandon (talk) 02:51, July 11, 2014 (UTC)

hows this? yes theres some Susanoo shit, but its still mostly a good color not being obscured and in perfect profile , and in his famous armor.--RexGodwin (talk) 06:17, July 21, 2014 (UTC)

I don't really like it, because of that Susanoo stuff. --Kasan94 Nara Symbol Talkpage 08:18, July 21, 2014 (UTC)

Let's just wait till he's resurrected in the anime. As much as I hate the current image, I can't find a suitable image in the flashback and believe me, I was thorough in searching for one. --Mandon (talk) 19:33, July 24, 2014 (UTC)

there wont be a better one of him being revived.. he immediately loses both eyes and loses his armor after. quite the contrary, theres a few good shots in this episode:

File:MadaraProD.png
File:MadaraProC.png
Madara newshot

Option C

File:MadaraProA.png
File:MadaraProposal E.jpeg

--RexGodwin (talk) 22:54, July 24, 2014 (UTC)

I'm okay with both B and D, with a preference for B. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 20px 23:19, July 24, 2014 (UTC)
C or D for me. --KirinNOTKarin98 (talk) 02:16, July 25, 2014 (UTC)

So in the absence of a decent image of Madara in his armor, I feel it's worth putting this one up as option E. It was the original image we used before we started waiting for a better photo from a flashback and quite frankly, I think it's fine, aside from the gray scale, it represents Madara's character much better than any of the proposed images, depicting him with his armor and gunbai, which is something no other photo can do. --Mandon (talk) 03:37, July 25, 2014 (UTC)

I am absolutely against that. Your option is in terrible quality, greyscale, and only represents Madara as he was seen earlier in the series. Not once since he became prominent, was he ever depicted with a headband on his forehead, for one. You simply don't see an image you like, but that doesn't mean that there wasn't a decent choice from the recent episodes, and options A through D are proof of that. That being said, Option C is probably our best choice. He's facing the "camera", if you will, it shows Madara's typical demeanor, and without any dōjutsu in his eyes. He is wearing his trademark Uchiha robes (he doesn't have the armor, but I really don't care about that) and, better yet, he's alive. I say change it to Option C and leave it that way. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 20px 05:03, July 25, 2014 (UTC)

I wasn't weighing these options based off whether I like an image or not. The artwork and animation for this episode was quite terrible, so yeah, I don't think any of the proposed are particularly suitable.

Additionally, your argument is extremely flawed. Not once was Madara depicted with a headband before he became a prominent character? Try 124 chapters ago when he appeared in Onoki's flashback. Bad argument is bad. The greyscale point of course, still stands, but it still represents his character better than any of the proposed images. Before Madara was even named let alone established as a major character, this is how he appeared, armor and all. His gunbai and clothing are part of his iconic appearance, so they are important.

However, with that being said Kishimoto changed the color of his gunbai so you could say my proposed image boasts a non-canon color scheme, but the gray scale fixes that problem. Regardless if that's a dealbreaker then I support option B for the slightly more refined artwork. --Mandon (talk) 06:07, July 25, 2014 (UTC)

I Support C and D. C have a better angle at him, while D have better light. --Kasan94 Nara Symbol Talkpage 08:09, July 25, 2014 (UTC)

Not sure what episode you saw, but the animation was just fine. Besides that depiction of Madara is very off how he normally looks in this day and age; just look at his hair then. And people need to stop obsessing over the red armor. -.- the focal point is his head/face so that is irrelevant. Plus that grey scale is awful. Maybe if it was properly colored but just no.--RexGodwin (talk) 08:55, July 25, 2014 (UTC)

Option C (Kuroiraikou (talk) 09:24, July 25, 2014 (UTC))

Not sure why changing the image is so important, as I've stated before we got incredibly lucky to get a good shot of him, armor and all and not looking like a reanimated corpse. I see no reason to switch to a less iconic picture just to have a picture of him not dead. Going through so many loops just to change the image just seems like a waste of time and energy. As such, I abstain from picking. Have fun.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 09:26, July 25, 2014 (UTC)
I honestly think the current one is fine. Yes, it's an image of him as an edo tensei, but none of the telltale cracks are there. He looks exactly as he did in life. My only problem is the lighting but in a case such as this I don't think it's too much of a deal breaker. That said, if it has to be changed I'd go with Option C. Good framing, good expression, good art. D has better lighting but it's not a great shot and something about it just makes him look younger.--Soul reaper (talk) 09:37, July 25, 2014 (UTC)

The image is not fine, it's too far away and not centered on his face. Also his clothes are satisfactory for the images proposed. Option C is the best as that's the facial expression Madara has on him most of the time, though Option D would be my second choice that just doesn't scream "Madara to me". So my choice is Option C as it showcases Madara's most used facial expression.--Narutofox94 (talk) 04:56, July 26, 2014 (UTC)

Looks like there's an overwhelming amount of support for option C. Guess that settles it --Mandon (talk) 01:32, July 27, 2014 (UTC)

Why is there an obsession to change the image of Madara? Seriously, pick one and leave it alone. These weekly discussions to change his image are getting disruptive and pointless. --SuperSajuuk Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | Channel 14:24, July 27, 2014 (UTC)

He needed a living image and now he has one. Case closed, there won't ever be new and better images of him to use so this is the one that stays, for good this time. --Mandon (talk) 09:42, August 2, 2014 (UTC)

Sources saying he is the strongest Uchiha in history?

Can somebody please tell me the sources saying which chapters and pages saying he is  blatantly the strongest uchiha clan member in history; same thing with one of the most gifted shinobi in history?--JustaNobody (talk) 01:45, August 7, 2014 (UTC)

Something very interesting

Madara used Sage Art: Storm Release Light Fang but none of the Shurikens Naruto used in latest chapter do we recognize as Storm, so there are two options:

  • the mystery scale powder Shuriken is in fact Storm Release
  • Madara had Storm Release on his own as a kekkei genkai

You pick--Elveonora (talk) 11:02, August 11, 2014 (UTC)

What has SR to do with Naruto's Rasen Shuriken? None of them were Blaze Release either, so is the scale powder one Blaze Release? • Seelentau 愛 11:10, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
Naruto used powers of all the Tailed Beasts for his 9 shurikens and none of them do we recognize as SR. Madara's usage of SR either comes from being a jinchuuriki or it was his Kekkei Genkai. So if the former, one of the Tailed Beasts has to have Storm Release.--Elveonora (talk) 11:12, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
Ah, I see. Then the black orb could be storm clouds and the whirly wind would be... well, whirly wind, hm? It doesn't fit the usual depiction of Storm Release in the manga, though. • Seelentau 愛 11:15, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
Then again, Madara's Storm Release is a slice of wind, too... • Seelentau 愛 11:47, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
Well, I just thought we might want to solve this sooner than later. According to wiki, Kabutomushi are linked to element of lightning due to their horn resembling a lightning rod, so that may be a vague connection. The white tornado-like stuff may be the Storm Release. The black core may be metalic scale powder--Elveonora (talk) 11:53, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
Why does it have to be both? • Seelentau 愛 11:55, August 11, 2014 (UTC)

Because Storm Release isn't black, so the black core has to be something else--Elveonora (talk) 11:56, August 11, 2014 (UTC)

Fire Release isn't blue either, still we say that the blue flames of Matatabi are Fire Release... • Seelentau 愛 12:01, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
Yes, but why would Chomeo's Storm Release be two-colored? Also the one Madara used was also white only like Darui's--Elveonora (talk) 12:06, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
It's not two-coloured. The wind around it is wind, not white beams or so. I believe that Madara used wind, too. • Seelentau 愛 12:16, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
Then why call wind storm release? Also if the white stuff is wind, that would imply the black is storm but Darui's Storm Release is all white/bluish--Elveonora (talk) 12:28, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
Because a storm is mostly made by strong winds. Yes, but different versions of one nature aren't uncommon (I'm looking at you, Lava Release). • Seelentau 愛 12:31, August 11, 2014 (UTC)

So would you oppose us changing scale powder to Storm Release? Unless you believe Madara was born with Storm Release or that one of the Tailed Beasts just decided not to use it with the Shuriken--Elveonora (talk) 12:34, August 11, 2014 (UTC)

I do oppose, because him using Storm Release after becoming the TTJ is no solid evidence that one of the beasts has SR. He uses YR and LR too, yet none of the beasts used those natures in the Rasen Shuriken, hm? • Seelentau 愛 12:38, August 11, 2014 (UTC)

I don't really understand this discussion, do the abilities of the nine tailed beasts really need to coincide with the abilities of a Shinju jinchūriki? --Atrix471 (talk) 12:38, August 11, 2014 (UTC)

If they don't, then Kaguya has Storm Release. It either came somewhere from the Ten-Tails or from Madara himself. @Seel, what is YR and LR?--Elveonora (talk) 12:41, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
Inton and Raiton. • Seelentau 愛 12:41, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
Both of them are basic natures. Madara could use YYR so that included Inton. Just because he didn't use Raiton prior to becoming a jinchuuriki doesn't mean he couldn't--Elveonora (talk) 12:43, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
Ever consider the fact that the Shinju is the origin of chakra, in all forms, and that it was used to create the Ten-Tails? Emphasis on all forms. --Atrix471 (talk) 12:44, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
So cool, so let's list Kaguya/Ten-Tails, Hagoromo, Obito and Madara as users of all known basic and advanced natures, because you say origin of chakra in all forms.--Elveonora (talk) 12:49, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
Well Hagoromo I wouldn't be surprised about, nor would I be for Kaguya. Madara canonically mastered all five basic chakra natures, so with the Shinju, I don't see why he couldn't mix them. Also I seem to recall Madara absorbing the Shinju, then using the storm release in the very next chapter... seems too scripted for coincidence. --Atrix471 (talk) 13:06, August 11, 2014 (UTC)

Possessing Hashirama Senju's life force and vitality?

Is it worth adding on to Madara's abilities the possession of Hashirama Senju's vitality, physical energy and life force, particularly to his Chakra section?--JustaNobody (talk) 00:11, August 15, 2014 (UTC)--JustaNobody (talk) 00:18, August 15, 2014 (UTC)

It's somewhat noted in the 'body modifications' sections; mentioning his new regenerative powers and wood release. --Atrix471 (talk) 00:20, August 15, 2014 (UTC)
We shouldn't even mention these stupid things in my opinion, it irks me seeing them being thrown around everywhere. First, vitality is just another term that was used for life force, so they are the same thing. Second, we don't even know exactly what life force is, what it does and what difference its quantity/quality makes in comparison to those with lesser life force, third, same for physical energy, we don't know how anyone with strong physical energy differs from an ordinary folk.--Elveonora (talk) 08:52, August 15, 2014 (UTC)

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