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Revision as of 21:24, December 7, 2012 by Aged Goblin (Talk | contribs)

Raijin, Kaminari, Raiden, Narukami

They all are the names of the god of lightning[1] in shinto religion (the source of many references in the series), why that is not cited on trivia?--Spcmn (talk) 21:17, December 27, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think all of those would need to be in the trivia; Raiden only. Skitts (talk) 21:30, December 27, 2011 (UTC)

I don't mean to put all four, just 'Raiden', that match with the romanization of the technique. But those are the names of the same entity.--Spcmn (talk) 01:08, December 28, 2011 (UTC)

Ah, I misinterpreted what you said. I think it can go in. Skitts (talk) 01:15, December 28, 2011 (UTC)

Lightning Cutter

How is this related to lightning cutter? Just because it formed in his hand doesn't mean it's derived from Lightning Cutter. 119.73.75.64 (talk) 10:45, December 28, 2011 (UTC)

Lightning cutter is the parent technique. I'm not even sure how or why this is being brought into disrepute.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol14:15, December 28, 2011 (UTC)
Despite it seeming rather obvious to me, I wouldn't be so eager to list it as such. We removed Lightning Cutter as a parent technique to Kakashi's lightning hound in the past because both outcomes were likely. It makes sense being its parent technique, but doesn't necessarily have to be. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:30, December 28, 2011 (UTC)

Name

I'm not sure how the name was decided, but isn't it a bit archaic to use "connexion" these days? Skitts (talk) 14:58, December 31, 2011 (UTC)

I brought that up with ShounenSuki. Based on something Seelentau asked about the second kanji in the technique's name, he's considering whether "Lightning Transmission" is a better translation. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:09, December 31, 2011 (UTC)

Shadow Clone or just another user?

As I said before to Cerez, it's obvious that this Jutsu requires another user of the Lightning Blade and not necessarily a Shadow Clone. I don't feel like putting any other info I got stored in my head. I said those once, and repeating what I said is the 10th most thing I hate. 'Sides, it's such a drag...... --X29 16:43, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

Sounds a little speculative to me.— UltimateSupreme ƒ(♫) 17:10 UTC, Thursday, 6 December 2012
I agree, we don't know if there is another user of the Lightning Blade required. WHAT we know is that the technique was used with a shadow clone, so we should go with that.Norleon (talk) 17:21, December 6, 2012 (UTC)
Isn't it obvious that if another user of the Lightning Blade was used instead of a Shadow Clone, it'd be the same thing? After all, what's the difference if one used another person? And doesn't a Shadow Clone count as someone else in this case? --X29 17:48, December 6, 2012 (UTC)
I don't think so, we don't know what happens if two different lightning cutters would be put together (besides, isn't Kakashi the only one to be able to perform the lightning cutter? it's not the chidori, therefore sasuke and kakashi would probably not be able to perform this technique together). And I thought the shadow clone is simply a clone with the exact same techniques and behaviours of the original, which makes him not an independent person. It's just a copy of the original.Norleon (talk) 18:07, December 6, 2012 (UTC)
Oh, and I thought again about what you said about the shadow clone being replaced with another user of the Lightning Blade. By that logic, we could say that everyone who could use the wind element would be able to perform the rasenshuriken alongside naruto, because the third clone just adds the wind element to the original rasengan, because naruto wouldn't be able to do so alone. To be honest, that seems absolutely wrong in my eyes.Norleon (talk) 18:18, December 6, 2012 (UTC)
The Lightning Blade's the Lightning Blade. There's no such thing as different Lightning Blades. And just 'cause Kakashi's the only user of the Jutsu doesn't mean that no one else is able to use it. And the only difference between the Lightning Blade and the Chidori's that the Lightning Blade's more concentrated. And a Shadow Clone can be defined as such, yet there are cases where the Shadow Clone counts as another person. And now that you mention the Rasenshuriken, I think that works out too. I never really thought 'bout it. --X29 18:24, December 6, 2012 (UTC)
Yes, the lightning blade is more concentrated, but that doesn't mean that Sasuke would be able to use it, because we was never seen using it. The lightning blade is Kakashi's "own jutsu", and he is famous for it, even the raikage said something about that when I remember right....when does the shadow clone count as an independent person? and why should there be different cases? The technique is always the same. And you can not just overwrite every single technique that requires shadow clones and suggest that every other character could it use too. There are certain techniques that just one person could perform, but he needs more versions of himself for it.Norleon (talk) 18:35, December 6, 2012 (UTC)
The Lightning Blade's Kakashi's original Jutsu. It's impossible that only he and Sasuke can use it. I'm sure anyone with a lightning affinity who gets training on the Chidori can learn and use the Lightning Blade. And till you show me the spot where A said such a thing and what he said exactly, I can't take it. And I don't recall all of the cases of when the Shadow Clone counts as someone else. I only remember the Jutsu we're talking 'bout and the times when one uses multiple clones of themselves against the same opponent. 'Course, reasonable numbers, like 'bout 20s-30s, not insanely numbers, like hundreds or even thousands. And I'm not saying every Jutsu that we've listed as requires the Shadow Clone Jutsu actually needs more people. I'm just saying that times, like this one, counts as someone else. And you're right, there are Jutsus that require more versions of the user and not more people. Like, the Naruto Uzumaki Barrage techniques. --X29 18:45, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

I get the feeling this will become an endless discussion between us, neither you nor I can accept the other one's theory. I suggest we wait for more people here to tell us their mind and then drop the overruled theory.Norleon (talk) 18:49, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, no. If anything, the fault here is that while I understand what you're saying, it's just not correct. Norleon, X29 isn't talking about listing other users for this technique because it uses a Shadow Clone, so your Rasenshuriken analogy is flawed but I do get where you're coming from, it's not about listing the users, its about the status of the technique as a standard or collaboration technique, having said that, there are particular variants of Rasengan which are collaborative techniques because another person helped Naruto create them. Having said that, the only reason for the normal Rasengan to even require a Shadow Clone is in the case that the user (Naruto or Konohamaru) aren't skilled enough to perform it using a single body. X29, while I understand the perspective, you're wrong, there is such a thing as different Lightning Blades, at least in the sense you are speaking. If we take this technique as being no different than a collaboration, then like the Double Lariat, the two users would have to be in perfect sync. The difference between Lightning Blade and Chidori isn't just concentration, Lightning Blade is ranked above Chidori, it's a more powerful technique. If nothing else, performing it with a Shadow Clone makes this technique easier to perform, much like Naruto's clone short cut. For all we know it is impossible to sync up Lightning Blade with two separate users, thus why we can't call this collaborative even if another Lightning Blade user existed. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 18:51, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

I have not read all the above at all, but here's my angle: regardless of it requiring or not the shadow clone, that is how Kakashi used it. In the filler where Edo Deidara escaped, Zetsu used Mayfly to plant the explosive clay mines. We know that per se, Mayfly isn't required, as Obito did the same thing using Earth Release: Hiding Like A Mole Technique, but we list it as a parent technique as well, because that was a way the technique was performed. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:08, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

@Norleon
Well, there are a couple more people joining in. Does that make you satisfied?
@Hawkeye
I don't see how the Lightning Blade's more powerful, as both pierce the chest of their targets. And how's it impossible to sync up the Lightning Blade with two people? It's the same Jutsu, so there's barely any difference.
@Omnibender
I didn't notice that, as I stopped watching the anime for a while (not 'cause I don't wanna watch the fillers) and didn't watch the Chikara Arc yet. And I gotta be honest, the Mayfly and the Hidden Mole Jutsu can be considered as parent Jutsus, as they allow the user to move underground, which is what's required to perform the Clay Mines Jutsu. --X29 06:00, December 7, 2012 (UTC)
Well yes, I somehow am, since it's not just the two of us anymore, and it seems both Hawkeye and Omnibender are against listing this jutsu as a collaboration Technique which is my point as well.Norleon (talk) 11:15, December 7, 2012 (UTC)
We've only just started this discussion. --X29 11:24, December 7, 2012 (UTC)
That may be, but I will not say anything new because I think what I've said earlier is enough for this discussion. For what we have here is that four participants of this conversation are against your theory, and three of them brought logical arguments. You said that you went through all of this before with the user cerez, so I read that too and it looked exactly like this discussion, so there are even five members on this wiki against it. If you still think you can convince so many people, then go on, but I won't participate any longer because I don't want to write my earlier posts over and over again.Norleon (talk) 11:40, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

This all sounds like a forum based discussion, as speculative theories shouldn't be on talk pages. But that aside, who else does know the Lightning Blade (NOT Chidori) but Kakashi? Don't go saying Hiruko from the non-canon movie. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 11:59, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

@Norleon
Let's just wait till this discussion's over.
@Yatanogarasu (What kind of name's that? Really hard....)
I wouldn't even think of Hiruko. He's non-canon. At any case, just 'cause only Kakashi knows the Lightning Blade doesn't mean no one else can learn it. --X29 12:10, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

With the aid of the sharingan kakashi was able to advance chidori into the raikiri, for for further proof have you ever seen kakashi used his raikiri without his sharingan closed ?--Naruto6paths (talk) 12:15, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

First time was when he was 'bout to battle Orochimaru to protect Sasuke. However, I don't know what that has to do with this discussion's topic. --X29 12:27, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

I think he means that a Dojutsu like the Sharingan is required in order to use the Raikiri. So Dojutsu (Takes out the Raikage and most other known Lightning users) Lightning Element (Removes the entire Hyuuga Clan so far and Itachi) The ability to move at pace (Takes out Nagato) and motive to sync up with Kakashi (Removes Obito, Madara and Sasuke) That's shrunken the list of people who can perform this technique to... Well, Kakashi. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 15:17, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

The Sharingan isn't required to perform the Lightning Blade. We've seen Kakashi use it without revealing his Sharingan a few times. However if he was using it without his Sharingan all the time, then that'd be very hard, as we all know the Chidori's weakness. The Sharingan's only a supplement. And I know there wouldn't be people who'd wanna perform that Jutsu with Kakashi, but that doesn't mean that they can't perform it with him. 'Course, those people gotta learn the Chidori first. --X29 16:19, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

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