Talk:Kakuzu

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Real age and Physical age

Why does he look 30-40 butin fact he is 91 . you could add in the Apperance content that he physically is 30-40 .Reply please. Dalia0002 (talk) 16:28, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

Kakuzu's 4th Mask

Kakuzu notably has one of his Masks/Hearts destroyed but afterwards he uses both Earth and Water styles afterwards, I also must note that a lot of Jonin also have up to 2 Chakra natures, Kakuzu being much much older then the average Jonin could have easily have developed a second Chakra nature so this could make up for the fact he use water and earth release after he lost his (Presumably water nature due to him not using an incredibly powerful water release move and just a simple water shield and clone, while he retained an extremely powerful earth release ability, Kakashi also stating how he needs to have a nature's specific affinity to perform the powerful techniques) heart. Just stating this to stop a few anomalies and suggest this information be put into the article. DragonOfDagon (talk) 23:05, January 16, 2014 (UTC)

There's really nothing suggesting the fourth mask was the source of Kakuzu's Earth Release. It's true that he never used Earth Spear after losing it, but he had no reason to, with Kakashi having the technique's weakness. Shikaku (I believe) actually called Kakuzu an earth user during the war. The mask should be listed as having an unknown affinity to avoid any speculation.--BeyondRed (talk) 23:21, January 16, 2014 (UTC)

Kakuzu did use Earth Spear after he lost the mask, he used it momentarily in an attempt to kill Choji, I was implying that the mask could be his water mask as he never used a powerful water technique unless the water wall/clone is considerable, either way I'm just saying that it could be added that he might be adept in water style as he never used a powerful technique with it but still use water jutsu. DragonOfDagon (talk) 05:33, January 17, 2014 (UTC)

You should only take the manga into consideration, water was anime-only I believe--Elveonora (talk) 13:17, January 17, 2014 (UTC)

For what it's worth (not much), Ultimate Ninja Impact actually has unlockable cards for all of Kakuzu's masks and calls the light blue one "Water Mask". Not saying that has any canon value, but it's more than can be said for it being an "Earth Mask". Maybe trivia worthy?--BeyondRed (talk) 19:09, January 17, 2014 (UTC)

This "earth mask" issue has been brought up several times over the years, but it never gets resolved. Can we finally do something about this?--BeyondRed (talk) 23:40, March 29, 2014 (UTC)

Water Release

Wasn't Kakuzu fifth heart (stored in his body) the water heart? Not just considering the anime, but also the manga, in chapter 339 Kakashi informs Naruto as he can use all the 5 nature types. Gerisama (talk) 11:38, April 14, 2014 (UTC)gerisama

Seeing as the mentality of this wiki's users has changed over the time, I'd like to apply the following simple logical conclusion to this topic:

His fire mask was the one with the red marking.

His lightning mask the one with the yellow marking.

His wind mask the one with the dark blue marking.

Now, which colour would every human being relate to earth? That's right, brown. Did Kakuzu have a brown mask? No. But wait, the only other element that's left is water and a mask with a light blue colour. Coincidentally, water is often depicted as being light blue. Could it be... could it really be that Kakuzu's last mask is the water mask? :O Seelentau 愛^議 12:18, April 14, 2014 (UTC)

The main argument for it being an earth mask is, if I'm not mistaken, the fact he didn't use Earth Spear after the first mask was destroyed. He used it in the anime, but not in the manga. Manga vs anime shenanigans ensue. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:44, April 14, 2014 (UTC)

Well, in that case, I counter with "Kakuzu realised it was pointless to use Doton against Kakashi, a Raiton user". Seelentau 愛^議 18:55, April 14, 2014 (UTC)

Chakra natures aren't dependant on having specific genetics though, so even if Kakuzu did lose an earth-natured heart, he'd still have the knowledge and experience to use Earth Release. We don't even know for sure if the chakra natures used by the masks were determined by the heart stored in them. Kakuzu's Lightning Mask still used Lightning Release during the war, despite having a different heart. Either that's a coincidence, or which heart is in which mask is irrelevant and each mask just has a certain element it can use regardless.--BeyondRed (talk) 23:58, April 14, 2014 (UTC)

No, it was stated that the natures come from the hearts. I don't know about the masks, but their existence isn't a result of Jiongu. Seelentau 愛^議 14:05, April 15, 2014 (UTC)

From what we've learned and understand from all the information over the years, is that you are incorrect. Chakra natures are dependent on having specific genetics. Do I mean hereditary? No, but a person's body is naturally aligned with certain elements which gives rise to affinities. So what Kakazu would do, I'm assuming, is find a heart that naturally leans towards certain elements so the masks are more powerful. You are right though in that it may not have to be a heart's affinity, since despite that -- everyone can learn every nature. It's just that a body leans to one more than others. It could be a Raiton affinity heart in a Doton mask. But the more logical conclusion is that it is incorrect. As for the war segment, we'd have to look into it. Do you happen to have a chapter # where you saw it? I don't remember that specific incident. --Taynio (talk) 14:45, April 15, 2014 (UTC)

I... didn't really understand what you're saying. As far as I know, Kakuzu stole a heart to gain access to whatever affinity that heart's original owner had. That's how he was able to use all chakra natures, despite him having only mastered one - which Doton, as I explained above. Seelentau 愛^議 15:00, April 15, 2014 (UTC)

Affinities are dependent on genetics, but just using natures is not. Kakuzu stole peoples' affinities, allowing him to more easily learn every nature. My point was that nothing says Kakuzu loses the ability to use a nature when he loses a heart with its affinity. That's an assumption, but the fact that the masks used the same natures in the war despite having different hearts raises the possibility that each mask has a specific predetermined nature it uses, regardless of what heart is inside it. What I mean is, Kakuzu maybe losing his earth affinity heart shouldn't stop him from using Earth Spear, so it isn't proof that the fourth mask had an earth affinity. The mask could very well be a water mask (as the colour strongly implies), but the truth is that we don't know for sure what nature it used.--BeyondRed (talk) 15:33, April 15, 2014 (UTC)

"Affinities are dependent on genetics, but just using natures is not. Kakuzu stole peoples' affinities, allowing him to more easily learn every nature. My point was that nothing says Kakuzu loses the ability to use a nature when he loses a heart with its affinity" Pretty much this. It's impossible to lose "the ability" to use a nature, because it isn't even an ability but skill/knowledge "how to" more or less. The only way to loose it would be to become senile or something. EDIT: a good comparison is also the Rinnegan. Ripping the eyes outta of Nagato's skull wouldn't disable him to use all natures, since he had mastered them already.--Elveonora (talk) 16:48, April 15, 2014 (UTC)

You can't compare that. According to the databook, Kakuzu steals the hearts of other people and takes in their respective natures. It's only logical that if the respective heart is destroyed, he won't be able to use its nature anymore. Seelentau 愛^議 16:52, April 15, 2014 (UTC)

@Seelentau -- What did you not understand? I also had agreed with you, and still do. Perhaps if you pinpoint what lacks clarity, I can help you understand my meaning. --Taynio (talk) 17:27, April 15, 2014 (UTC)

@Seelentau, so, by that reasoning and what manga has shown, I still see no wrong in Kakuzu having his first mask destroyed and no longer using Earth Spear meaning that the mask had an earth heart. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:28, April 15, 2014 (UTC)

I do not see an inherent flaw with this logic, unless I'd have to go read all the relevant chapters again. That said, was there a point at which Kakuzu didn't use Earth Spear? I admit my memory surrounding his is EXTREMELY fragile currently, but would it be possible his "main" heart would be the Earth? Or was his "main" heart every mask? Sorry, just a sudden thought about if Doton is Kakazu's affinity. I def need to read them again. --Taynio (talk) 17:38, April 15, 2014 (UTC)

Omni-kun, I say his last mask is the water mask simply because of its colour. I have no other "proof". Seelentau 愛^議 17:43, April 15, 2014 (UTC)

In the war, Kakuzu was referred to as an Earth Release user. It isn't absolute proof, but it certainly implies he can use Earth on his own.--BeyondRed (talk) 17:46, April 15, 2014 (UTC)

I believe in Ultimate Ninja Heroes 3 (where you have to collect cards), each of Kakuzu's masks have a card, at least the Water One does, and it is called a Water Mask.--Omojuze (talk) 17:49, April 15, 2014 (UTC)

Ah, yes. He is described as someone who uses Doton when he already released his mask. Seelentau 愛^議 18:20, April 15, 2014 (UTC)

I will like to add that after Kakuzu's first heart was destroyed, Earth Spear still remained active (indicated by his darkened skin) for a considerable amount of time during which there were a series of conversation that transpired, first between Kakashi and Kakuzu and then between Chouji and Shikamaru, after which Kakashi let Kakuzu to collapse. Also Kakuzu never had to defend against an attack until at least after he lost his second heart (the one that was killed by Hidan). NoJutsu (talk) 06:40, July 11, 2014 (UTC)