Talk:Jinchūriki Forms

Gallery

Glad to see that this page was created. Is the plan to add a gallery for the different users? At the very least, there should probably be pictures for the various aspects of the forms (a close-up of Version 2, the miniature tailed beast skeletons, different uses of partial transformation, Naruto's eight-tailed form, etc.).--BeyondRed (talk) 20:43, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

Sora

When did Sora do partial Transformation? KotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 16:03, June 29, 2013 (UTC)

@Koto, Sora didn't. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 16:08, June 29, 2013 (UTC)

... Dan, I think the fact that someone is asking is indicative of him being listed. So if he didn't use it, why is he listed? --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 16:15, June 29, 2013 (UTC)

He did, his arm partially transforms sometimes.. — SimAnt 16:15, June 29, 2013 (UTC)

If I recall correctly, his arm was always like that until the chakra was removed. It was mutation of sorts. I don't think that counts as a partial transformation, ya know?. KotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 16:20, June 29, 2013 (UTC)

His arm isn't a bijū arm or is it? Dan.Faulkner (talk) 16:21, June 29, 2013 (UTC)

Nope. KotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 16:23, June 29, 2013 (UTC)

That is what first thought, that arm isn't from the bijū, being only a mutation, review the episode @Simant. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 16:30, June 29, 2013 (UTC)

His arm wasn't always like that. It was wrapped in bandages, and whenever he tapped on Kurama's chakra, the arm would change into that mutated Nine-Tails arm. Don't know if that counts as a partial transformation, but it seems not too many people actually remember what happened in that arc, so I thought I should bring it up. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 17:32, June 29, 2013 (UTC)

Definitely partial transformation, I brought this up myself long ago and some opposed it. Someone can't "mutate" from chakra, mutations are genetic. It was a result of Kurama's chakra thus partial transformation--Elveonora (talk) 20:03, June 29, 2013 (UTC)

Definitely a mutation and not partial transformation, that has nothing to do with parcial transformation, just look at Sora's hand, looks like a crab's shell or something. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 22:52, July 1, 2013 (UTC)

Its not a mutation. Mutations are done at the cellular level, and are not caused by energy. It is a direct result of Sora's Nine-Tails chakra, and his arm only transforms when he's agitated/using Kurama's chakra. Therefore, it is a transformation. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 23:26, July 1, 2013 (UTC)

Foxie is correct this time. The only way for Sora to could have mutated is if he had Kurama's cells/DNA or shit and it would have stayed once the chakra was gone. In fact it looks like a mix between Kurama's arm and his human arm, no crab shell lol.--Elveonora (talk) 12:21, July 2, 2013 (UTC)

(Restarting indents) Anymore opinions on this? I'm watching the Twelve Ninja Guardians Arc on Crunchyroll to get us some more images as well as to update the neglected filler characters everyone seems to pass over and ignore. It seems the consensus is that it is in fact a partial transformation, but, just for a fact check, I've confirmed a few things by re-watching these episodes;

• Sora's arm is caused by his possession of the Nine-Tails Chakra.
  • By that very definition, it is not a mutation. Any one who has studied anatomy, biology, etc. (and being a med student, I've studied this extensively), knows that mutations are caused by a change in the nucleotide sequence within someone's DNA. In other words, you're born with mutations. You don't gain mutations suddenly.

Based on this observation alone, I guarantee you, it is a partial transformation, but continuing on;

• The arm is actually a normal human arm except when he's angry and using Kurama's chakra. So, yet again, like most jinchūriki, it is sparked by his usage of Kurama's chakra. Not by a mutation in his genes.

Therefore, based on this evidence, I think it is safe to list Sora as an anime-only user of a, albeit unwillingly, partial transformation (which is no big feat, because Naruto has done it too). ~ Ten Tailed Fox 19:38, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Did he? i don't remember Naruto doing it--Elveonora (talk) 22:46, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Naruto's partial transformation was far more extreme (eight-tailed form), but it proved that partial transformations can happen unwillingly. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 22:48, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

You know Naruto was unconscious back there? It was a forced transformation, nothing he did himself. But oh well, that's not very relevant anyway.--Elveonora (talk) 22:51, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

This is crazy

This generalised page is okay, but why on earth did you guys remove the individual pages? It completely removes the in individuality of the transformations.209.73.151.10 (talk) 17:00, June 29, 2013 (UTC)

Maybe because with the generalised article all the individual information is there too, and theres no need to be all those individual articles. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 17:03, June 29, 2013 (UTC)

Menma's Tailed Beast Mode

Since Menma is Kurama's jinchūriki in the Genjutsu World, and he could fully manifest the Nine-Tails (albeit like a summon), shouldn't we put him in the Tailed Beast Mode paragraph?--JOA20 (talk) 21:43, July 1, 2013 (UTC)

No. He summoned Kurama. He did not transform into him. There is a huge difference. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 23:26, July 1, 2013 (UTC)

Back on the note of Menma, he did, however, use the initial Jinchūriki mode (during his fight with Naruto, when the Nine Masked Beasts returned to him, watch his eyes, you'll see the red iris with slit pupils). Should he not be listed as a user of the Initial Form at least?--The Eleventh Doctor ^{(Trust me. I'm the Doctor.)} 19:54, August 7, 2013 (UTC)

Tailed Beast Mode

We should specify HOW each Jinchuriki who has it reaches it, and whether they have full control or not. It'll make the topic far more accurate and clear up things, since its wrong to assume that Han, Roshi, Utakata, and Fu can assume the full Beast Mode form without outside help since their control is unknown.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 21:39, July 6, 2013 (UTC)

I believe that this distinction should be made, since this is the rationale we used for adding or keeping people as users of Tailed Beast Ball. However, I'm not sure that making that in the list of users is the best approach to do it. Mentions during the text should suffice. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:05, July 6, 2013 (UTC)

You are taking the term "known users" just means persons who have turned into their beasts. There are more details present in each persons respective article to identify under what conditions the mode was used. And as Omni said, more details can be added to the sections as well.--Cerez365^™(talk) 22:45, July 6, 2013 (UTC)

Obito Uchiha

How would we go about adding Obito's new form to this page? Doesn't seem to fit the bill of any of the others. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 06:58, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

Under a separate heading I'd say: main heading "other forms" or "miscellaneous" and then sub-heading "Obito's form" or something like that. Possibly they'll tell us what it is, but for now it doesn't conform to any known forms.--Cerez365^™(talk) 14:49, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

We should wait for next chapter until we add something about Obito's jinchūriki form. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 17:06, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

We don't have to wait. This is a Jinchūriki form. I'm of the same mind of Cerez. An "Other Forms" heading, with a sub-heading for Obito should work for now. Its clearly different from anything we've seen before. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 18:48, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

The thing is... since we'll see a lot more of this form in the comming chapters, it's more than likely to have a big growth...maybe making a separate article aswell to add the several details...given how it's more similar to Naruto's NTCM, maybe even give an un-official name similar to it...that is when we have too much details and if no official name is given. Darksusanoo (talk) 22:27, July 14, 2013 (UTC)

And this latest chapter is just showing me right...Obito's section in his articla for this is geting massive...maybe a new article showing this mode with a un-official name until a official one is given could help. Darksusanoo (talk) 21:56, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

Until something is named, I am very much against this. It is clearly different from any type of jinchūriki transformation we've ever seen, and I think creating new articles left and right, just because his form is different is a bad way to handle it. Also, there is no magic limit on how big a section should be. It will be as big as it needs to be. Right now, the best course of action is to just leave it how it is. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 22:03, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

Colored Pics?

Why do we have colored pics under Obito's Jinchūriki Form? I don't remember him being colored in any chapters (that I've seen) and I thought we didn't use fan-colored pictures. Joshbl56 02:26, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

They're not fan-colored. Naruto, Bleach, and One Piece had their last week's chapter re-released earlier today, but in full color.KazeKitsune (talk) 02:37, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

final form

According to Gyuki, the previous form of Obito's was next to the last, that means what we see now is the final transformation; ie. Rikudou Sennin's form.--Elveonora (talk) 11:07, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

The "perfect" final transformation won't be exist right now since Naruto and B have their bijū. There's a big difference between this form and Rikudō's. So still nothing confirmed here and also Kurama didn't say anything about this from even with a merely word. http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a553/anaspet06/Shakhmootssign_zps2a261e68.png^(Contact) 11:22, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

He doesn't need the beasts themselves, only their chakra, he already has them all. Gyuki in fact said that the previous form was next to final, so this must be the final form--Elveonora (talk) 11:46, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

This from probably should be the final according to Gyūki's statement, but that doesn't mean that it's the same form that the Rikudō had when he was its jinchūriki (i.e. This form =/= Rikudō's form) http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a553/anaspet06/Shakhmootssign_zps2a261e68.png^(Contact) 11:53, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

Probably Obito's final form, not Jūbi's, i still don't believe that Jūbi could enter its final form without all Bijū's complete chakra, it doesn't make any sense, but kishimoto trolls what we know as sense, still, they said nothing about this form, we can't say that is the final form yet. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 12:33, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

Had Sage not used it, Gyuki wouldn't have recognized it, logic.--Elveonora (talk) 22:45, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

I don't think this is the beast's final form but the form achieved by its actualised(?) host. The beast's final form was what the Sage confronted and sealed into himself which is what probably gave him that form we've seen post becoming the host.--Cerez365^™(talk) 22:54, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I meant jinchuuriki form, not the beast's. Octopus guy must have seen it since he noted that Obito's previous one was "next to final" so this is Sage of Six Path's final jinchuuriki form.--Elveonora (talk) 22:58, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

Not seen, because Gyūki was part of Jūbi then, but know it because it was inside Jūbi once before. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 02:02, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

Suggestion

Since Killer B talked about Tailed Beast Chakra Mode (尾獣チャクラモード, Bijū Chakura Mōdo) way before the term "Nine-Tails Chakra Mode" was used, I think B meant that all jinchūriki can use it. Let me explain. B talked about the full transformation in the Tailed Beast (what we know as Tailed Beast Mode) as the full manifestation of the Tailed Beast after the jinchūriki tapped into its chakra reserves, thus entering "Tailed Beast Chakra Mode". I think we should change the page in something like this:

Tailed Beast Chakra Mode

Initial jinchūriki form

Version 1

Version 2

Nine-Tails Chakra Mode

Tailed Beast Mode

Partial Transformation

Full Transformation

Other Transformations

Obito Uchiha's Jinchūriki Form

What do you think?--JOA20 (talk) 10:40, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

Why not put "Nine-Tails Chakra Mode" in the Other Transformations? --Questionaredude (talk) 16:29, July 30, 2013 (UTC)

Because it's a form of Tailed Beast Chakra Mode, unique to Kurama's jinchūriki (Naruto and Minato especially), but still Tailed Beast Chakra Mode.--JOA20 (talk) 17:25, July 30, 2013 (UTC)

The article is supposed to be used fore generic purposes. Lumping in chakra modes with other modes that jinchūriki are able to enter shouldn't be done. That's why Obito has been thrown into "other transformations" and articles were made for the other ones.--Cerez365^™(talk) 20:11, July 30, 2013 (UTC)

Understood, I'm sorry for the trouble I caused.--JOA20 (talk) 02:21, July 31, 2013 (UTC)

Ten-Tail's Extra Abilities

Since pictures are up from the new chapter, I was wondering if it would now be okay to add in the extra abilities this chapter showed Obito having.

The first is the amazing healing. We see him healing on page 3 and he has shown to have fully healed by page 4 (small picture of him in the bottom left corner of the page) and further evidence can be found on page 9, where he is spinning around.

The second part I want to go over is what Naruto says on page 4. He mentions only feeling natural energy when using sage mode and that natural energy could only be stopped/damaged by itself.

Should we wait until the raws of this chapter come out before putting them into the article or do you think its safe to do so right now? Joshbl56 00:23, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

Bump Joshbl56 09:11, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

Obito healed super fast from Naruto's QB Rasengan before becoming a jinchuuriki. The natural energy part should already be there--Elveonora (talk) 12:15, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

I must be looking in the wrong spot but I'm not seeing anything about natural energy in his section. I'll add it as a trivia note and see if anyone removes it for now. Thanks for the reply Elveonora. Joshbl56 20:32, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

Partial transformation gallery

Should we add an image of Naruto's partial transformations after he gained Tailed Beast Mode?--JOA20 (talk) 10:39, August 31, 2013 (UTC)

Here's the thing about his Tailed Beast Mode, which makes it iffy to me. When he's in Tailed Beast Mode he is technically fully utilizing the Nine-Tails' chakra, which means whenever he is not full on fox, he is technically in a partial transformation.

But that is me spit balling and I'm pretty sure the article itself does not reflect this observation.--TheUltimate3 ^(talk) 11:06, August 31, 2013 (UTC)

Well, yeah, but by partial transformation we mean a manifestation of the tailed beast's body parts, otherwise we would've put Sora's right demonic hand as well. So I think we could put an image of Naruto manifesting Kurama's head or arm, to show the visual differences with the transformation against Pain. And Naruto cannot create a fully-powered Tailed Beast Ball without manifesting the full Kurama cloak, so there's a bit of difference between the enhanced Nine-Tails Chakra Mode and the full Tailed Beast Mode.--JOA20 (talk) 11:21, August 31, 2013 (UTC)

The thing is, I don't think those should be considered partial transformations. He isn't transforming into Kurama neither manifesting parts of its body, it's just a chakra cloak--Elveonora (talk) 21:53, August 31, 2013 (UTC)

Really? Bee and Gyūki had no trouble stating that Naruto had finally managed to fully transform into Kurama despite the fact that it was not in the flesh, and it is called Tailed Beast Mode, which is the manifestation of a tailed beast without its jinchūriki's death.--JOA20 (talk) 22:05, August 31, 2013 (UTC)

It's already been noted that his Tailed Beast Mode is unique among the jinchuriki Elv. What I was saying (which again is not reflected in this article) was that on a very loose technical sense, he is always in a partial transformation once he dons the mantle in Tailed Beast Mode because that was pure Kurama chakra that he could then mold into arms, tails and head whenever he wanted.--TheUltimate3 ^(talk) 22:22, August 31, 2013 (UTC)

So you're saying that Naruto's partial transformations in Tailed Beast Mode are a form of Tailed Beast Chakra Arms? But Chakra Arms cannot create Tailed Beast Balls, so at least Kurama's head should be considered as a partial transformation, along with the chakra arms that have the same marks as Naruto's hands, since they would be Kurama's arms.--JOA20 (talk) 23:03, August 31, 2013 (UTC)

@JOA, really? Tailed Beast Rasengan part of a tailed beast's body isn't needed to create it. Naruto doesn't transform into Kurama one bit, that giant cloak fox isn't Kurama, but the cloak enlarged. It really is more like chakra arms--Elveonora (talk) 23:18, August 31, 2013 (UTC)

Well, that's all fine and dandy, except for the fact that Kurama said Naruto had transformed into "his tailed beast", B and Gyūki said he'd be come Kurama, so on and so forth. Look, stop arguing against Kishimoto. Its been noted that Naruto's Tailed Beast Mode is unique among Jinchūriki, but it is the Nine-Tails he's becoming according to the Nine-Tails himself. So just leave it at that. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 01:50, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

No one argues against its "uniqueness" and Kishimoto. The facts are tho that Naruto doesn't transform physically into Kurama neither the chakra cloak fox is Kurama. When Killer B is in Tailed Beast Mode, he and Gyuki are one and the same being. They both get hurt when attacked and bleed, going as far as Gyuki loosing teeth and horns. On top of that, both Killer B and Gyuki can speak through the transformed body in Tailed Beast Mode.

For Naruto, the chakra cloak fox lost its tails, Kurama didn't get hurt, neither Naruto got because it wasn't their body again. And I'm yet to see the chakra cloak fox open its mouth and speak. There's no transformation being done, they just merge their chakras and Naruto forms a giant fox body out of it. But the topic is about partial transformation... the same applies to it. Forming chakra head is no different than forming chakra arms and neither are actual parts of Kurama's body and Naruto's doesn't change and as such they do not classify as partial transformations in its literal definition not at least. In fact, we list Killer B Version 1 Lariat's "horns" as chakra arms and by that so should we the head.--Elveonora (talk) 11:48, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

Another conversation I do not wish to engage in a lenghtly argument over. I will just say this: Tailed Beast Mode as we've been told is turning into the tailed beast within. Naruto's Tailed Beast Mode is stupid unique, but he is turning into Kurama regardless. The Nine-Tails speaking through it is irrelevant, hell the Eight-Tails only spoke on the outside once and ever time after that it has been speaking to B or the Nine-Tails through telepathy.

That being said, this entire discussion took a turn that will most likely not be used for any article anyway, especially this one was it was originally about the partial transformation gallery so I suggest we either drop this Tailed Beast Mode discussion or the entire one in general.--TheUltimate3 ^(talk) 13:31, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

Utakata

Why to remove Utakata's V2 picture?--Rikudo Sennin 47 (talk) 00:02, September 4, 2013 (UTC)

Article Name

Wouldn't "Tailed Beast Transformation" be a more appropriate name for this article? It's a term actually used in the manga and would also cover the non-jinchūriki who can transform, like Kinkaku.--BeyondRed (talk) 20:19, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Update trivia?

Can we now update the 3rd trivia point? Seeing as it was explained in this weeks chapter, pretty much. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 14:28, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

Bump SusanooUnleashed (talk) 05:19, September 7, 2013 (UTC)

What about it?--Elveonora (talk) 22:13, September 7, 2013 (UTC)

Fukai's Tailed Beast Mode?

Why is Fukai in the list of those jinchūriki who accesso Tailed Beast Mode? By definition Tailed Beast Mode is the full transformation of a jinchūriki without the latter's death, and Fukai did die in the Eight-Tails' rampage.JOA20 (talk) 13:22, September 7, 2013 (UTC)

That's not the point though. Fukai has transformed. It was the Third Raikage that killed him. He didn't die as a direct result of the transformation.--Cerez365^™(talk) 15:32, September 7, 2013 (UTC)

Ten tails

should i add obitos tailed beast transformation? or wait till next week--Shotcolla7 (talk) 00:47, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

Also, is Obito actually present on the battlefield OUTSIDE the juubi? Or we just see him same as when Kirabi talks with Hachibi while transformed? Faust-RSI (talk) 06:16, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

Any picture from the chapter will do. If anything I would suggest one before the Ten-Tails becomes a giant tree.--TheUltimate3 ^(talk) 10:11, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

This one http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/File:Naruto-4446385.jpg Faust-RSI (talk) 10:29, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

Well hell, a picture of the tree will do then.--TheUltimate3 ^(talk) 11:35, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

We should wait for the raw, as it's not allowed to post pictures with English text, the previous one got deleted.Faust-RSI (talk) 12:19, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

The picture of the tree is fine, considering the alternative was freaky mutation anyway regardless of texts.--TheUltimate3 ^(talk) 12:27, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

Version 2

Doesn't the Version 2 form appear unique enough to have its own page?--RexGodwin (talk) 08:20, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

No, Version 2 is the same for everyone (the jinchuriki get their skin mostly burned and replaced by the chakra of their tailed beasts [exc. Gaara]), just that some jinchuriki display a feature specific to their transformation, making a separate page for that is pointless. --Speysider ^{Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | Channel} 08:35, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

Im not talking about the different varieties of V2 amongst the Jinchuriki, i mean the Version 2 form itself. It itself is a much different, special thing from the basic Biju form.--RexGodwin (talk) 08:56, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

No. Naruto's Nine-Tails Chakra Mode is unique to only Naruto, and as the article has shown, possesses enough uniqueness to warrent a new article. Version 2 can literally be summed up as Version 1 with upgrades, which is why it and Version 1 are sections of a single article.--TheUltimate3 ^(talk) 10:09, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

"Looks at Minato" --Elveonora (talk) 11:36, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

Unique to Naruto and Minato then.--TheUltimate3 ^(talk) 11:45, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

Partial Transformation=Tailed Beast Mode?

As we have seen, Naruto can partially manifest Kurama's limbs only when he is in Tailed Beast Mode (though there's actually a panel showing him manifesting Kurama's arm in Nine-Tails Chakra Mode), so should we put the Partial Transformation section as a sub-paragraph in the Tailed Beast Mode section?--JOA20 (talk) 13:12, October 12, 2013 (UTC)

The thing about partial transformation and tailed beast mode is that Tailed Beast Mode is when the user is consciously transforming into their tailed beast, completely. Naruto only creating Kurama's limbs in Tailed Beast Mode just means Naruto has only created limbs in Tailed Beast Mode but considering his Tailed Beast Mode in general is so different from the others he can't be the end all of things. Killer B has just stood there all human and then grew eight tails out his butt yet he was clearly not in Tailed Beast Mode.--TheUltimate3 ^(talk) 17:41, October 12, 2013 (UTC)

What I'm trying to say is that the jinchuriki enters Tailed Beast Mode even when he/she manifests only a portion of the monster's body.JOA20 (talk) 17:49, October 12, 2013 (UTC)

^Except they dont, as BM for all the other Jins that dont have a half Bijuu (Yin/Yang Kurama) are recognized as their full forms, and partial is just that.. partial. Narutos is special, thats all there is to it.--RexGodwin (talk) 18:50, October 12, 2013 (UTC)

Point of clarification, having the yin and yang doesn't mean anything. Naruto's first tailed beast mode had fur.--TheUltimate3 ^(talk) 21:42, October 12, 2013 (UTC)

tailed beast mode variant

Shouldn't we consider what Obito and Naruto with Menma in the movie did as a variant? Using their tailed beasts without actually transforming themselves or unsealing it from their bodies.--Elveonora (talk) 14:01, February 15, 2014 (UTC)

I agree with that because I was thinking the same thing. So u have my support Riptide240 (talk) 15:52, February 15, 2014 (UTC)

I'd either list it in the trivia section, as it was a movie only thing, or I'd mention it as a tailed beast mode. What they did is very much like what Gaara did in Part 1. Even with Shukaku fully manifested, Gaara was still out. It's also similar to B manifesting his human self from a part of the Eight-Tails body. "Tailed Beast Manifestation" is essentially tailed beast mode. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:55, February 15, 2014 (UTC)

why do we

Use a temporarily term for Hagoromo, Obito, Madara and Naruto's forms? It was given a name in canon by Madara who called it "sage transformation"--Elveonora (talk) 09:53, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

Madara called Obito's sage mode staff "Sage Transformation". • Seelentau 愛^議 09:58, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

I'm sure he was referring to the whole thing, orbs and all. It contextually makes sense considering that orbs also consist of Senjutsu.--Elveonora (talk) 10:00, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

Still not the jinchuriki forms. • Seelentau 愛^議 10:14, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

They are one and the same. Ten-Tails' chakra is Senjutsu since it in itself is natural energy incarnate. So saying the staff is senjutsu but not the form, despite the staff being part of the form is weird.--Elveonora (talk) 10:39, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

It's not. Obito didn't assume the form when he formed the staff out of Hashi's Senchakra and Kuro Zetsu. • Seelentau 愛^議 10:40, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

Obito is a jinchuuriki no longer. Gaara manipulates sand and could pull out Shukaku, because he still has trace amount of its chakra, but can't assume a form anymore either. The little chakra of Ten-Tails Obito has left is enough to use the orbs, with more chakra he would grow horns and all.--Elveonora (talk) 10:51, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

How very speculative. • Seelentau 愛^議 10:51, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

I don't see any speculation, just your refusal to accept facts. I'm not even sure with what you disagree here. The orbs happen upon becoming the Ten-Tails jinchuuriki (fact, seen twice), Naruto alternatively got the orbs from fusing Senjutsu chakra and chakras of the 9 Tailed Beasts (fact), together the two make up the same chakra as the Ten-Tails has. By your logic, Naruto in Part I. while using just a little of Kurama's chakra, the "initial form" wasn't using a jinchuuriki transformation? The staff and orbs even without the cloak, horns and all are a jinchuuriki transformation since they use the Ten-Tails' chakra. The more chakra Obito would have, the more would he transform, obviously.--Elveonora (talk) 11:02, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

"Gaara manipulates sand and could pull out Shukaku, because he still has trace amount of its chakra" - speculation. • Seelentau 愛^議 11:46, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

Is it? We were told that as its ex-jinchuuriki, Gaara could pull out Shukaku, unless I'm mistaken. Since he can manipulate sand, it means Shukaku's power was embedded into his body, so you could say Shukaku's chakra had an ever lasting effect on Gaara. That means he has trace amounts of Shukaku's chakra in my dictionary. Anyway, onto the topic itself, I can see your reasoning, you consider the balls akin to chakra arms rather than the transformation itself, I believe? Well, the thing is that they appear simultaneously with the transformation after becoming the Ten-Tails' jinchuuriki. It's illogical to call a technique (the orbs/staff) a transformation rather than the whole stuff surrounding it being the transformation, I hope you get it--Elveonora (talk) 11:58, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I do. Then why did he transform Black Zetsu? • Seelentau 愛^議 12:13, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

Not all of us have come into agreement that he did. To me it looked like BZ protecting itself from the black orb being produced from Obito's palm.--Elveonora (talk) 12:32, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

If you were a black mass, would you retreat like he did? Well, I would make sure not to leave parts of me behind, like he did. • Seelentau 愛^議 12:36, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

Well, we now know that the Ten-Tails' chakra and by extension of the 9 Beasts' + Senchakra is what makes up the substance. I don't see how Black Zetsu, who is ... Madara's will given life with YYR? falls into any of that, unless you can explain.--Elveonora (talk) 12:43, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

Because YYR is still not out of the game. I believe there to be a crucial information we still not have, in order to solve this whole issue. • Seelentau 愛^議 12:46, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

U can clearly see the black orb above his hand penetrating it. And the combination of the bijuus and Hagoromo's senjutsu chakra (which is the Ten Tails power since it's senjutsu itself) is what made his shroud's appearance differ and the Truth-Seeking BallsRiptide240 (talk) 12:54, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

This. If YRR IS a part of it by default, then either of the Tailed Beasts must have Yin R, Yang R or YYR as their affinity, which we don't know about. Also why would Obito use Black Zetsu to get the YYR nature part for the orbs, despite the fact that Madara taught him YRR himself decades earlier?--Elveonora (talk) 12:59, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

As I said before, I think there's something about Chakra, YYR and Senchakra, that we don't understand yet because we miss some information. But I'm trying to figure out what information we're missing this weekend, so please bear with me. • Seelentau 愛^議 13:13, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

Topic at hand people...if the issue was about Naruto's transformation, keep it on such. Take the Yin-Yang issue to the Truth-Seeking Ball article.--TheUltimate3 ^(talk) 13:28, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

Well the original topic was that the jinchuuriki forms revolving around the TSB was called "sage transformation" by Madara so we should call Obito, Madara and Naruto's new jinchuuriki forms as such instead of using fanon/temporarily fancy terms--Elveonora (talk) 13:34, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

For once I agree with Elve. Sounded to me like Madara was refering to the whole transformation and, given the fact that he refers to himself (in the new chapter) as having both the Senjutsu of the Six Paths (which was clearly depicted as Naruto's shroud) and the Rinnegan, then yes, I'd say the Ten-Tails form is called Sage Transformation. It wouldn't make any sense for him to call the just staff "Sage Transformation" when he knows the name of the black substance. No, contextually, he is almost certainly referring to the entire transformation. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 16:57, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

Wow, is this the first time you agree with me or so? I thought it would never happen. I'm touched :) Now, how do we handle that?--Elveonora (talk) 09:02, April 18, 2014 (UTC)

Bump guys.--Elveonora (talk) 12:08, April 20, 2014 (UTC)

So shall we now change it to sage Transformation? Riptide240 (talk) 12:34, April 20, 2014 (UTC)

Duh, we shall, since that's the only canonical term for it.--Elveonora (talk) 12:36, April 20, 2014 (UTC)

Hey, no need for the "duh". It's just because i didnt see anything happening. Riptide240 (talk) 12:38, April 20, 2014 (UTC)

That duh wasn't meant for you, but to those who came up with stuff like "senjutsu of the six paths" and "enhanced chakra mode" and shi* Thank you for cooperation--Elveonora (talk) 13:11, April 20, 2014 (UTC)

Question about the Sage

Did he go through Sage Transformation, like Naruto and Madara, or did he...you know...just kinda look like that? I ask because, compared to Naruto and Madara, who's unique forms manifested themselves into clothin in one way or another. But the Sage...I don't know. Didn't he always just...kinda look that?I mean, what he's wearing sure doesn't look organic like Obito's form was, but yeah...question.--TheUltimate3 ^(talk) 20:42, April 20, 2014 (UTC)

His clothing appear to be just that, clothing, yes. Although the skin color, horns and all might be part of his jinchuuriki form, but we don't know that. We are yet to see him young and before he sealed the shinju into himself.--Elveonora (talk) 20:46, April 20, 2014 (UTC)

I can safely say his horns are not. Look closely at the image of him and his brother fighting the Ten-Tails. Both of them have horns.--TheUltimate3 ^(talk) 21:37, April 20, 2014 (UTC)

Those are hair, Hagoromo's horns are shorter than his hair, they can't even be seen from behind.--Elveonora (talk) 21:49, April 20, 2014 (UTC)

They most likely inherited them from their mother. If his brother had them there's no reason why he shouldn't. And we can clearly see his brother's horns. Riptide240 (talk) 22:35, April 20, 2014 (UTC)