Talk:Hiden

What was the actual name of this? Hijutsu or something like that? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:43, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes Hijutsu is correct. Also for those of you who nominated this article for deletion ive fixed it. But the Aburame clan's bugs are not kekkei genkai (read the thing at the bottom of the kekkei genkai article). As such, I have removed the Yamanaka clan from the page. Murtagh4 00:58, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Actually, Hijutsu (秘術, Secret Technique) is not correct. The correct term is Hiden (秘伝, Secret) Jutsu. --ShounenSuki 01:43, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Yamanaka

How are their techniques not hidden jutsu? Ino said herself that Pain's mind reading technique and controlling bodies with chakra are like their clans secret techniques. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:14, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Isn't that obvious that? That Pain body that's being controlled by Nagato is from another clan that can also use mind reading techniques! Now, I'm not sure if the Yamanaka Clan isn't the only one who can disturb minds or mind reads. --Rasengan888 17:17, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Actually, Ino never calls her techniques secret and neither does Inoichi. The databooks also don't classify the Yamanaka jutsu as Hiden.

Apparently, they simply aren't that secret. --ShounenSuki 18:14, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

What About the Body Switch

Ok I'll admit that the mind reading might not be a hiden jutsu but what bout the body switch or that one jutsu where Inoichi makes a Sand Ninja turn on his own teammate? Those are definitely different than mind reading. —This unsigned comment was made by ZVargas1089 (talk • contribs) on 03:27, 10 March 2009 (UTC).

No, none of the Yamanaka family's techniques shows so far are considered hiden jutsu. --ShounenSuki ^{(talk | contribs)} 08:34, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique?

I'm not sure if it could be counted as Hiden, but the Uchiha clan mainly use this as a form of coming of age, and noone outside their clan has used it. Annaatar (talk) 15:41, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Some people outside the clan has used Great Fireball Technique, just look at it's page. Jacce | Talk 16:01, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Kakashi has, but he can use just about anything. Annaatar (talk) 16:02, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Aoba Yamashiro, Ebisu & Oki used it to. Besides, Hiden jutsus has no rank, and Great Fireball is C-rank. Jacce | Talk 16:05, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Hiden?

Shouldnt it been Hidden? (i could be wrong.. i dont know japenese or read naruto that intenseley but i would think the english translation is hidden..)

No it shouldn't. Hiden (秘伝) is a Japanese word meaning "secret," or "mystery". It carries the connotation of something that has been handed down in secret. We use the Japanese word for jutsu categories on this wiki, so it should be "Hiden". --ShounenSuki ^{(talk | contribs)} 22:52, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

What about Hijutsu? Couldn't that be translated to Secret techniques or something?

Yes and so could higi (秘技, 秘儀), ōgi (奥義), hiō (秘奥), mitsugi (密儀), oku no te奥の手, and probably a lot more words.

However, hiden (秘伝) carries the meaning of something being handed down in secret over the generation. --ShounenSuki ^{(talk | contribs)} 08:03, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

The argument that "because we use Jutsu we should say Hiden" makes no sense, even the dub says jutsu, so that's perfectly legit. It makes no sense to use a word that has no meaning to mostly English reading users of this wiki who watch the version of Naruto released to English reading countries, unlike the word jutsu. More people read this than just survivors of the filler arc... some haven't even gotten to it yet.--Kiwi Lawyer (talk) 04:51, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

Super Beasts Imitation Picture

would sai's technique count since he is the only that uses itEfresh12 (talk) 00:13, December 7, 2009 (UTC)Efresh12

Is it a highly secret technique passed down through the generations within a specific clan or group and, most importantly has it been classified as a Hiden Technique in the databook?

Why on Earth would the fact that a technique has only one user be any indication of it being Hiden? Cloak of Invisibility Technique has only one user, but it is not even close to being Hiden. On the other hand, the entire Aburame clan uses the Destruction Bug Host Technique, which is a Hiden jutsu. --ShounenSuki ^{(talk | contribs)} 00:42, December 7, 2009 (UTC)

Clay and Sticky Gold

The databook/fanbook(s) said these series were Hiden Jutsu? --207.81.31.167 (talk) 07:00, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

Yes. ~SnapperTo 17:34, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

It's Definitely Hidden Jutsu

I'm making the change.

One-Piece isn't named "wanpisu" that's a mistake not even 4KIDS makes.

The Japanese language borrows many words from the English language to describe that same thing. The Japanese language doesn't have as many sounds though, so when the word is said it sounds different, when translated into English by people who can't see the obvious, it's translated incorrectly.

Hiden-("hee-din") is the incorrect pronunciation of the word "Hidden", Japanese people can't say the i sound correctly, making it sound like "EE"

The source for this "hiden" thing translated the Japanese spelling of an English word wrong, meaning, if you want to change it back, please find a reliable non fan-subbed source to confirm.

Did you honestly think it was a coincidence that the hidden techniques that clans hide from others are called exactly what the Japanese say for "hidden"?

Look at my source for a bunch of Japanese loanwords taken from all sorts of western nations and repeated wrong.

[[1]]

--Kiwi Lawyer (talk) 04:20, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

Wan Pīsu (ワンピース) doesn't mean anything in Japanese. Hiden (秘伝) does. Poor comparison. ~SnapperTo 05:18, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

You sound like you're being deliberately close minded, did you check the link? it has at least a hundred English words turned Japanese turned back into English incorrectly. I'll list them since you are so determined to not see that the only difference between these words is that one was given one less d when made English again.

A Wan Pīsu is a type of dress, strangely, it is identical to a one piece dress. Do you even know what a one piece dress is? I'm sure some Japanese girls do.

hiden -hidden

aisu kurimu -ice cream

noto -note

sabisu -service

sarada -salad

tabako -tobacco (that's more obvious than hiden-hidden)

light -raito

I got these on an online translating program by randomly putting in western words.

chi-zu -cheese

pai -pie

kisu -kiss

There's even a Japanese show called "hiden camera" about pranks filmed on unsuspecting people with hidden cameras, the word is written in the English title as hiden, and it's talking about a HIDDEN CAMERA!

You're the hunter that shoots something that walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck and declares it is a new never before seen breed of duck-looking geese.--Kiwi Lawyer (talk) 08:28, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

The Japanese word hiden (秘伝, literally meaning: passed down in secrecy) has no relation to the English word hidden. They simply sound alike and have a similar meaning, something that is quite common across all languages. It is pure coincidence. --ShounenSuki ^{(talk | contribs | translations)} 09:30, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

Proof, Get some. Anyone who claims to have an IQ above 160 should understand that it is virtually impossible these two words were independently created to sound exactly like each other and mean exactly the same thing.

Explain the Japanese show "Hiden Camera", did they also independently invent cameras and name them the same thing? or was this a "Camera passed down in secrecy" that they use as a hidden camera?

All evidence points to this being just another one of hundreds of loanwords that someone incorrectly translated which stuck, something that actually is common across all languages.—This unsigned comment was made by Kiwi Lawyer (talk • contribs) .

How is that "hiden camera" show called in Japanese? Because it sounds awfully much like a simply spelling error. Especially considering that the Japanese word for a hidden camera is kakushi kamera (隠しカメラ).

Any way, hiden and hidden do not have the exact same meaning. hidden refers to something concealed from others, whereas hiden refers to something that is passed down to other, albeit only to a very select group.

Also, saying it is virtually impossible to have two similar-sounding words with similar meanings without them sharing a common origin is extremely short-sighted and ridiculous, to say the least. You should really read up on you false cognates and, to a lesser extent, false friends.

I'll admit that I do not know the exact etymology of the word hiden, but I do know it was in use at least as far back as the eighteenth century, when Japan was still closed off to the outside world and contact with English was almost non-existent. Also, practically all loanwords in Japanese are written in katakana, whereas hiden is always written in kanji. Also, even if there are kanji for a loanword (as is the case in plenty of pre-WWII loanwords) the kanji usually either have meanings that are awkward and distantly related at best (e.g. club (倶楽部, kurabu, literally meaning: both enjoyment division)), or pronunciations that are not common for the kanji (e.g. tabacco (煙草, tabako, usually pronounced as ensō)).

--ShounenSuki ^{(talk | contribs | translations)} 11:10, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

There are 12,000 possible syllables known. Hiden is a two syllable word. the likelyhood should be 144,000,000 to 1 that any two syllable word is the same as another two syllable word, now what are the chances they mean the same thing and have no connection? By the way, it's virtually impossible to win the lottery, the chance of that are 135,145,920 to 1.

Please bring proof of the use of hiden in the eighteenth century, or at least why you think this is true?

I assume since you also bothered to correct my spelling of "japanese camera" or Kamera, that you think it's relevant. Kamera is obviously camera misspelled because they have nearly identical definitions and nearly identical spelling. Just like Hiden and Hidden.

Your definition of "hiden" is "passed down in secrecy", right? well, the definition of "hidden" as an adjective is "concealed from knowledge or exposure; kept secret" anything "passed down in secrecy" is automatically something "concealed from knowledge or exposure; kept secret" and therefor, hidden. Clearly the definitions are identical, so identical that most people will only see a typo and just say "hidden" in their heads and be more right than you.

I wonder why "hiden" or "kamera" are not on that wikipedia page you linked when (if you are right) they clearly the greatest of all false cognates, since most of those words were only slightly similar (if you squint... Hard) and almost all had at most only one syllable in common with the other (or just had similar sounding syllables) and the majority meant either I, no who, and, to, he/she, 1-10, and yes which are each in almost every one of the 7,500 spoken languages there are. Since each was made by early man due to its importance, it logically is to be simple. It's easy to imagine these words being said all over the world, after all, there aren't 7500 ways to say one syllable that isn't similar to the rest, and who wants to say something like "j'abberwockyzyzyszxyzHOOthopo'yayoyiyai" whenever the want to say "ya" "why" or "no"? That's why "omg danger! help!" is "AHHHH!!!!" and not something that takes more than half a second to bellow and still understand.

There are only 6 words on the list of Japanese terms mistaken for gairaigo and only one is said to be related to English, "chari" which sounds like "chariot" but means bike which is for some reason considered similar enough to a chariot to warrant the creation of a page dedicated to it and 5 words considered close enough for someone to have somehow thought they were related.

A word w/ kanji isn't necessarily purely from Japan. In fact, it most likely belongs to China, from which they got the majority (literally) of their words. China, did have contact with people who spoke English before and after the 1700's, especially during WWII where the Japanese killed and raped thousands of Chinese, many who likely tried to "hide" from Japanese people. (note: I'm not speculating that that's how they got it, just saying that it's more probable than them making it completely on their own)

Anime is the English word for the Japanese word for the English word "Animation". Except it was spelled wrong by the country who invented it when they heard the people who borrowed the word say it incorrectly.—This unsigned comment was made by Kiwi Lawyer (talk • contribs) .