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==Multiple Shadow Clone Technique==
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== plotholes and errors? ==
   
Hashirama shoud be listed as a user because he created the scroll of seals, which contains the Jutsu... OK?--[[User:Omojuze|Omojuze]] ([[User talk:Omojuze|talk]]) 11:38, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
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I remember ShounenSuki sensei stating that Tsunade was born after Hashirama's death, this also makes sense. Konoha exists 65 years, Tsunade is 54, let's say she was 4 during Hashi's gambling flashback. Unless he wears TONS OF MAKEUP, that dude should look, well... quite older.
:It was actually never said that he created it, but came to possess it. In any case it is possible to be able to teach something in principle and not be able to perform it yourself. And there's always the possibility that more that one person contributed to the scroll.--[[User talk:Cerez365|Cerez<sub>365</sub>™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]] 11:54, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
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But that's the first part of the problem... He clashed with Madara 80 years prior for the first time, let's say he was circa 18 at the time. If he didn't die, he would have been at least (give or take) 100 years old now, but we settle on 98. Now, 98-50=48... so you want to tell me, Hashirama died as 48 years old but is still damn handsome? Remember the anime-only picture with him and "Mito" holding Tsunade, that was agreed upon not to be canon? Well, brace yourself, cause it's not that farfetched now O_O Talk about eternal youth, but then happy Mito, poor Hashi T_T Kudos to the animation team ^_
   
Well, since he had the scroll and was a 2nd Hokage, it's likely he knew how to perform it since Shadow Clone Technique is a common Jounin one, but he was never seen using it nor it was said to be a signature ability of his.
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The second part of the problem is, that he was circa 34 during the founding of Konoha, Tsunade has been born when he was 44.
--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 16:15, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
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But Tobirama was already Hokage 5 years after the founding. Why did he give up so early on his Kage position and bothered to die 9-10 years later? (Note: Tobirama becoming Hokage before Hashirama's death is confirmed by a databook, but so short reign?) Unless that damn bully Tobirama kicked his butt for Madara incident and took his Kage hat by force ;D That also makes you wonder why he didn't participate in the 1st SWW, unless Tobirama died before Hashirama, yeah, I'm sure Hashi was already dead as of the war, but then again, the Tsunade gambling couldn't happen and Suki sensei is right, thus Kishi screwed up.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 16:34, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
   
== Unique Ability Addition ==
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Well since the Obito reveal, things confirmed in the databooks are getting more and more screwed over. Though the inconsistency I noticed was Suigetsu kept referring to Hashirama as the God of Shinobi, wasn't that Hiruzen's title? Also it's not that far fetched that Hashirama would look good for his age. as a ninja he likely exercises often, he doesn't seem to be a smoker like Hiruzen and most of all, if the Uzumaki have longevity just being related to the Senju and his Granddaughter uses medical techniques to look about 30, I don't see how a guy who can literally sprout life from every pore can't look ten years younger than he should be at the founding of Konoha. --[[User:Hawkeye2701|Hawkeye2701]] ([[User talk:Hawkeye2701|talk]]) 17:27, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
   
Shouldn't Tailed Beast Control be added as a unique ability of his? I can't recall there being anything that said that his ability to do so stemmed from Wood Release.
 
   
Edit Well, other than other than [[Hokage-Style Sixty-Year-Old Technique Kakuan Entering Society with Bliss-Bringing Hands|really long name no jutsu]]. xD I forgot about that. [[User:Skitts|Skitts]] ([[User talk:Skitts|talk]]) 17:21, January 22, 2012 (UTC)
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Dont you think you're looking perhaps a little too deeply into this ? I'm sure Kishimoto will go into the early days of Konaha soon. Hashi has only just come into play, chill out and see where it goes :) --[[User:Keep Calm And Call Kakashi|Keep Calm And Call Kakashi]] ([[User talk:Keep Calm And Call Kakashi|talk]]) 17:32, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
:It stems from his [[Wood Release]] kekkei genkai, so it should already be mentioned there. Though I might've misinterpreted what you mean.--[[User talk:Cerez365|Cerez<sub>365</sub>™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]] 17:34, January 22, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
Other than that technique, do you know if that was specifically stated anywhere? Just wondering. The second paragraph of his Nature Transformation section also seems to be referring to it as a distinct ability of his as well, if I'm reading it correctly. Oh, and by adding it, I meant to the unique ability part of his infobox. Like how the [[Ultimate Summoning Animal]] has chakra absorption in its. [[User:Skitts|Skitts]] ([[User talk:Skitts|talk]]) 17:39, January 22, 2012 (UTC)
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: Ummm, yeah, gonna have to agree with Kakashi on this one. There are even manga panels showing Hashirama holding a young Tsunade years before this chapter came out. Nothing was skewered here. It doesn't matter if him giving his title up doesn't make sense to you. That's obviously what he did. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 18:45, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
:Ah I was searching for it. It's chapter 291 pages 15 onwards in orochimaru's dialogue. Though I think we might need a direct translation, I don't think the two abilities are mutually exclusive although he does say gift(s).--[[User talk:Cerez365|Cerez<sub>365</sub>™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]] 17:47, January 22, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
Yeah, I don't think they are mutually exclusive either, I just couldn't remember it being stated that Wood Release was sole reason he could do so. [[User:Skitts|Skitts]] ([[User talk:Skitts|talk]]) 17:56, January 22, 2012 (UTC)
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@Hawk, then his youthful appearance should be noted.
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@@Kakashi&Fox, so Tobirama barely seen Tsunade but Hashirama outlived him to gamble with her? Sure, why not. Also can you provide those manga panels? I remember Suki stating it was an anime mistake as she was born afterwards--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 18:58, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
   
I requested that ShounenSuki translate what Orochimari said on that page by the way. [[User:Skitts|Skitts]] ([[User talk:Skitts|talk]]) 23:53, January 22, 2012 (UTC)
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Im going to make my point again and say before we discuss this further we should wait for Kishimoto to elaborate on the story. The guy isnt an idiot and there have been lots of so called plot "loopholes" which have turned out to be plot twists or explained. --[[User:Keep Calm And Call Kakashi|Keep Calm And Call Kakashi]] ([[User talk:Keep Calm And Call Kakashi|talk]]) 19:02, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
   
==Equipment==
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Not really, look at Zabuza, Anko, Asuma, Hayate, Ibiki and some other characters. Their ages and events contradict the official timeline (dates from manga and databooks)
I've just spotted a set of swords and a giant shuriken, possibly [[fuma shuriken]], in [[:File:Hashirama vs Madara.png|this picture]]. He seems to have used them during his fight against Madara. Should we list him as a user of said weapons and add an equipment section? --[[Special:Contributions/178.223.168.189|178.223.168.189]] ([[User talk:178.223.168.189|talk]]) 03:24, January 31, 2012 (UTC)
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I just find it weird that Hashi looks so young despite being pretty much a grandpa and him outliving Tobirama and that he didn't participate in the war he had caused. Also Tobirama wouldn't declare Hiruzen a Hokage with Hashirama still alive I guess--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:16, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
:[[Talk:Hashirama Senju/Archive 1#Sword user|Read this]].--[[User talk:Cerez365|Cerez<sub>365</sub>™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]] 06:17, January 31, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
:: Yes, he did use the giant sword in this OVA, which seems to be the extension of the said screenshot. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFzGNNummXg] --[[Special:Contributions/93.86.22.34|93.86.22.34]] ([[User talk:93.86.22.34|talk]]) 22:11, February 26, 2012 (UTC)
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With the age looking thing we can safely assume he pulled the same thing as Tsunade. With the rest bear in mind that the Senju had incredible amounts of Life force (Yang chakra) therefore we can assume they live for a hell of a long time. Look at the Third Hokage he was incredibly powerful at the age of 67 and he wasn't even Senju!--[[User:Keep Calm And Call Kakashi|Keep Calm And Call Kakashi]] ([[User talk:Keep Calm And Call Kakashi|talk]]) 19:26, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
:It's a game though. They're allowed creative license. He's already been tagged as a [[sword]] user.--[[User talk:Cerez365|Cerez<sub>365</sub>™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]] 22:13, February 26, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
== Sentence Mash up ==
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Remember the Senjū are related to the Uzumaki, and the Uzumaki have powerful life forces and vitality. Besides, this is a Manga, it's not gonna follow real world logic. Also just because they were different ages doesn't mean they can't be in Chūnin Selection Exams together, look at Team Guy they were in the Chūnin Exams together and they were a year apart, and there were even 20 something yr olds in those same Chūnin Examinations. Kakashi awas a graduated the academy by 6 and became a Jōnin by 13, ageis very wierd in Naruto.[[Special:Contributions/71.71.58.231|71.71.58.231]] ([[User talk:71.71.58.231|talk]]) 19:30, February 5, 2013 (UTC) Yomiko-chan
   
In the introduction to Hashirama's Abilities section, there's a rather odd sentence that doesn't sound like it's written correctly:
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I don't think Yang chakra was ever stated to be Life Force, also Hiruzen died at 69. Hashi's appearance isn't THAT much of a problem, but still important and (can't recall the damn word now... strange) to be noted. The problem lies especially with him holding Tsunade and time of death
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@Yomiko, that is being taken into consideration, and no, Kakashi became Jounin at 9--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:34, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
   
'''"Kabuto commented that Hashirama is stronger than Madara Uchiha and the union between the two of them, and that his might was so vast that there weren't any shinobi in the current era that could match his level of power but also that many considered his prowess to be a mere fairy tale much like the existence of the Sage of the Six Paths."'''
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@Elveonora:
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Yes, life force is essentially yang chakra I refer back to when Naruto's nine tails form makes Yamato's wood grow (LOL) the nine tails only has yang chakra due to Minato's sealing. I think the subtext is that the Senju inherited the sage of 6 paths life force (yang) and the Uchiha inherited his spiritual energy (yin) thats why they inherently can pull some bad ass genjutsu. Now that's cleared up, yes I understand that it may all seem a bit hazy but before we start making wild assumptions about our beloved Hashi we should wait a couple of chapters and return to this argument if nothing is revealed :) --[[User:Keep Calm And Call Kakashi|Keep Calm And Call Kakashi]] ([[User talk:Keep Calm And Call Kakashi|talk]]) 19:42, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
   
Namely, when I read the first part about the "union between the two of them", it sounds like it's saying that Kabuto said that even after the union of his DNA into Madara's own, that Hashirama was still superior. Really, the whole sentence (which seems too long for a single one) is rather odd to me. Mind if I edit it to make it flow better? [[User:Skitts|Skitts]] ([[User talk:Skitts|talk]]) 18:54, February 23, 2012 (UTC)
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Well, the only arguments present are offtopic and unrelated to this issue, so in short, all we need is the promised manga shot of Hashi holding Tsunade, and if it doesn't exist (which I think) then a source for Suki's statement. If it was just his assumption, then it should be investigated further, but if there's canonical proof behind the statement of her being born after his death, then I think it's pretty much justified to list as an error in trivia or elsewhere.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:51, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
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: Wow, 9? That really is crazy.[[Special:Contributions/71.71.58.231|71.71.58.231]] ([[User talk:71.71.58.231|talk]]) 19:56, February 5, 2013 (UTC) Yomiko-chan
   
== OVA ==
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Kakashi became a Jonin at 13. Otherwise we are gonna need to make some changes to his article. Why are people saying Hashi outlived Tobi? Is it because he wasn't confused about Hiruzen being Hokage? Lets not forget he saw the dude in his old age in Sand-Sound Invasion and we don't know if Hashi and Tobirama had discussed together the Hokage succession before dying off officially way back then, finally giving the title with the Kinkaku Force incident.[[User:Umishiru|Umishiru]] ([[User talk:Umishiru|talk]]) 19:59, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
   
Uhm i recently saw on Youtube an OVA showing Hashirama and Madara's fight which is a reward of sorts in the Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm Generation. Should it be considered canon on some way? I ask because it had then fight and do some techniques, soo any opinions? [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 23:42, February 23, 2012 (UTC)
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Nobody said anything about Tobi confusion or the gold and silver brothers. --[[User:Keep Calm And Call Kakashi|Keep Calm And Call Kakashi]] ([[User talk:Keep Calm And Call Kakashi|talk]]) 20:02, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
:I think OVA stuff would fall under anime only but if it's part of the game then it's game only. A user was adding him to a few of them yesterday I believe so it should be fine.--[[User talk:Cerez365|Cerez<sub>365</sub>™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]] 23:48, February 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
::I wouldn't say it's an OVA. It's more like an anime-style cut-scene. Pierrot did several for this came. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 23:51, February 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
::: Actually it's an OVA for when someone finishes the story mode of the game, a "reward" of sorts...or at least so i heard. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 23:57, February 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
::::I think it'd still fall under game if it's in the game though.--[[User talk:Cerez365|Cerez<sub>365</sub>™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]] 00:04, February 24, 2012 (UTC)
 
:::::Let me guess...wait until other forms of confirmation...[[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 00:05, February 24, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
I remember reading that these original animation scenes are for the games story mode. According to Saiyan Island this is one of those cutscenes. Tobi/Madara is one of the playable characters for story mode, so maybe it's one of his cutscenes? I even if it isn't, I think it was just made for fun and shouldn't be taken seriously. They even made of Itachi vs Kisame and Sage Mode Naruto and Sasuke for the game.--'''''[[User talk:Deva 27|Deva]] [[Special:Contributions/Deva 27|27]]''''' 00:20, February 24, 2012 (UTC)
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Changes done, please now stay on topic, we can take this elsewhere. EDIT: sorry for not answering your question, because Tobirama barely lived to see 2 years old Tsunade while Hashirama did long enough to "spoil her and teach her gambling" not to mention he isn't known to have participated in the 1st Shinobi World War and also the Hiruzen promotion reason, everything is stated above--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 20:05, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
   
Well, if it appears in anime later as an expansion of the fight scene then I guess it should be given some canonical credibility just like the Anko receiving Curse Mark scene.
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I was on topic. You guys are the ones who briefly brought up Kakashi's Jonin promotion age with you using another users name in an attempt to rubber stamp your opinion. I wonder if you actually read my post as it is responding to points brought up in the discussion. Since this is how I am being treated, I'll leave the discussion.[[User:Umishiru|Umishiru]] ([[User talk:Umishiru|talk]]) 20:07, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 00:51, February 24, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
== Not actually a legacy ==
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@Umishiru you remind me of the Uchiha you know being discriminated against and all ..... --[[User:Keep Calm And Call Kakashi|Keep Calm And Call Kakashi]] ([[User talk:Keep Calm And Call Kakashi|talk]]) 20:11, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
   
The current section about the Legacy of Hashirama Senju [[http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Hashirama_Senju#Legacy]] is very awkward. Of the 5 paragraphs, only the last one actually talks about something that Hashirama Senju left behind. The other 4 talk about how people coveted his powers and performed genetic manipulation to get said powers.
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I wanted to open a discussion on this, but okay, you guys were faster. So, first of all, Kakashi was 9 years old when he became Jōnin. I think we've discussed this enough. This said, Hashirama meeting Tsunade is impossible:
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:48-45 years prior to Naruto's birth: Konohagakure was founded
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:48-43 years: Hashirama dies after the village just bloomed, but gives Tobirama the Hokage title
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:43 years: Tobirama founds the police
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:38 years: Tsunade is born
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See? It was said that Hashirama died not short after the village was established, but not before he gave his title to Tobirama, who then founded the police. Tsunade could've never met him. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 16:38, February 6, 2013 (UTC)
   
The dictionary defines ''legacy'' as:
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@Seelentau. Where has the date of the founding of the village been stated ?. --[[User:Keep Calm And Call Kakashi|Keep Calm And Call Kakashi]] ([[User talk:Keep Calm And Call Kakashi|talk]]) 18:24, February 6, 2013 (UTC)
# An amount of money or property left to someone in a will.
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:Databook I, p. 116-117 and fanbook I, p. 18 and 53 (in the Japanese version, the German pages differ) say the founding of Konoha was ~60 years ago. 60-12=48. So the founding happened ~48 years ago, maybe earlier, because fanbook 2 still says 60 years, even though three or four years have passed. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 18:41, February 6, 2013 (UTC)
# (a) Anything handed down from the past, as from an ancestor or predecessor. (b) Something transmitted by or received from an ancestor or predecessor or from the past. (c) Something handed down by a predecessor. (d) Something that is a part of your history or which stays from an earlier time. (e) Something such as a tradition or problem that exists as a result of something that happened in the past. (f) Something that someone has achieved that continues to exists after they stop working or die.
 
   
As you can see, the majority of that section doesn't fit the section heading. You wouldn't say that the legacy of Orochimaru's parents are Orochimaru's experiments. Or that the Yondaime's legacy is the hatred that the villagers have/had for his son. So...shouldn't this be split into 2 sections?--[[User:Joolushko Tunai Fenta Hovalis|Joolushko Tunai Fenta Hovalis]] ([[User talk:Joolushko Tunai Fenta Hovalis|talk]]) 17:14, March 7, 2012 (UTC)
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I think this may be wrong as there a few scenes where Hiruzen Sarutobi is a young boy stood next to both Hokages. He looked around 8 at the time so I would reckon the village is older. However if you get bogged down in all these details it does ruin the experience when watching/reading Naruto.--[[User:Keep Calm And Call Kakashi|Keep Calm And Call Kakashi]] ([[User talk:Keep Calm And Call Kakashi|talk]]) 19:05, February 6, 2013 (UTC)
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:Tobirama wears the forehead protector on that picture, meaning Konohagakure existed already. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 19:28, February 6, 2013 (UTC)
   
:Although definitions C-F basically defines everything in Hiashirama's legacy section, I don't see a need to be so technical. I'm not too sure why you'd even want to bring this up. A legacy is anything that a person leaves behind- simple enough; the section is being used for post-death events, that's all.--[[User talk:Cerez365|Cerez<sub>365</sub>™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]] 17:18, March 7, 2012 (UTC)
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Thanks for support Seelentau ^_ talk about time paradox o_o Really, when bully Tobirama died, Tsunade was circa 2 years old, Hashirama surely died before Tobirama, unless he taught a fetus gambling habits or something. At the time Hiruzen became Tsunade's teacher, he was 24 years old and the Kinkaku Force stuff happened circa 4-5 years earlier.
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We know Hashi passed on his hat to Tobirama before dying, but surely not almost 10 years before, not to mention I wouldn't say a decade is "shortly" thus it's an error, not to mention as I said, if he was still alive, he would have fought in the war and took his hat back after his brother's death. I know Kishimoto is just a human, but sometimes it appears fans pay more attention to things than he does. It seems like the gambling stuff was just a random idea from nowhere to make a joke about Tsunade and portray him as "Narutoish" an idiot I mean; --[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 20:48, February 6, 2013 (UTC)
   
::Actually, the primary meaning of the word legacy is synonymous to inheritance. The secondary meaning basically tells you how legacy differs from inheritance. I've put definitions A--F together from a few online dictionaries...and you are right that they all convey the thought that it is something that Hashirama Senju left behind (in this context). Except that the only persons that Hashirama Senju left his DNA to are his children and grandchildren. His enemies have stolen his DNA to get his powers. I don't think that ''legacy'' is the right word to use. But if you rename the section to '''After Death''' there wouldn't be a problem either.--[[User:Joolushko Tunai Fenta Hovalis|Joolushko Tunai Fenta Hovalis]] ([[User talk:Joolushko Tunai Fenta Hovalis|talk]]) 19:37, March 7, 2012 (UTC)
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This is all good, but it isn't an "error", it is a plothole created from previous information given, but what is the point of this discussion when there's nothing we can do about it? I mean, sure you guys can hope dates change or what not, but this is as futile as saying that Kakashi's classmates shouldn't have been his classmates. We need to understand that Kishimoto isn't perfect and this isn't a history lesson so stuff like this will always happen.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 20:58, February 6, 2013 (UTC)
   
:::The word 'legacy' is not just what you physically or genetically leave behind after your death, it is also how the people think of you after your death. Everything that is in the Legacy section fits the word perfectly fine. I see no reason to chance the title. —[[User:ShounenSuki|ShounenSuki]] <sup>([[User_talk:ShounenSuki|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/ShounenSuki|contribs]] | [[User:ShounenSuki#Translations|translations]])</sup> 19:53, March 7, 2012 (UTC)
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I like history lessons and I'm a nerd ._. anyways, as you may guess, I'd like it to be noted in trivia. Something simple like "he died before Tsunade's birth, so couldn't have spoiled her" should do--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:08, February 6, 2013 (UTC)
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:But in the chapter he said he did it. You see what I mean, there is no "he could never have done it".--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 21:13, February 6, 2013 (UTC)
   
::::@ShounenSuki: I put the dictionary entry in for a reason. It doesn't mention physically or genetically. Neither do I(!). The only thing that actually fits the section title is the Will of Fire bit. And I didn't dispute that(!).
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Yes, it's manga contradicting databooks, not manga contradicting earlier manga chapters, but it's written by the same dude, or not? I doesn't matter that the general fandom doesn't know nor care, but we are wiki editors and should note details I think--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:26, February 6, 2013 (UTC)
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: Yes but you're confusing fandom following details compared to an actual story writer. At best, the only that can be done is a mention of it the same way we did for the Kakashi classmate info.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 21:33, February 6, 2013 (UTC)
   
::::Furthermore, if you read the secondary meanings, definitions A--C are remarkably similar to ''[[Hiden]]''. Definitions D--E form a more generational definition of the word. Definition F is a mix of the other two.
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Thanks a lot, my intention all along isn't to criticize him (even if I sound unfair when talking about Kishi sometimes) but to point inconsistencies in his work. Stating someone mistaken isn't rude, I think, it's pointing out facts, not someone's flaws--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:49, February 6, 2013 (UTC)
   
::::Which means that you're wrong; you're confusing it with public perception (which I admit can influence how people think about your legacy). The Will of Fire is a philosophy that Hashirama left behind---his legacy---but it doesn't mean that everyone values that philosophy.
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I actually thought the fanbooks and databooks were written by someone else? Just with his over sight? Is that wrong then? {{unsigned|208.124.127.74}}
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:Kishimoto is credited as the author of those books. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 18:18, February 22, 2013 (UTC)
   
::::Basically, '''if''' Hashirama had made a clone of himself it could be his legacy. If someone else makes a clone of you, it's not your legacy. You could think of your own children as your legacy, but you don't think of your own corpse as your legacy. In this case everything is even worse, because those people used his DNA---his powers---to fight against everything he stood for. They were the opposite of the Will of Fire. I can't be more clear than that.--[[User:Joolushko Tunai Fenta Hovalis|Joolushko Tunai Fenta Hovalis]] ([[User talk:Joolushko Tunai Fenta Hovalis|talk]]) 22:09, March 7, 2012 (UTC)
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68-60=8 so Hiruzen was 8 when Konoha was founded and most likely was being mentored by Tobirama and Hashirama shortly after that. Hiruzen was 18 at Tsunades Birth and 24 when he became her Jonin sensei. Hashi was alive with Tsunade at least until Tsunade was 3-4 and Hiruzen was 21-22, then he died and Tobirama was Hokage. Now we know you have to be a Jonin to get assigned a team and Tsunade and her team became Genin at 6... so right when they became Genin Hiruzen was still Jonin which means he was not Hokage until at least somewhere in his 24th year of life, don't assume the photo of them with Hiruzen when he had his facial hair was when they were 6.. we don't know how long the were Genin. So therefor Tobirama died at the latest when Hiruzen was 23 and Tsunade was 5. [[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] ([[User talk:ItachiWasAHero|talk]]) 03:48, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
   
Like I think I said before, your nitpicking over what the word "legacy" means is entirely unnecessary when for one, it's just a heading and two, it's exactly what a legacy is regardless of whether or not he wants it to be. Tobirama probably never intended to be looked down on for creating the Edo Tensei but people curse him for it either way.—[[User talk:Cerez365|Cerez<sub>365</sub>™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]] 22:17, March 7, 2012 (UTC)
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and again, if we disregard chapter 599 then Kakashi would be a Jonin at 9, but if we include chapter 599 then he was a 11 year old Jonin. So stop going around stating it a fact Elve, not until databook 4 comes out will we know which way it goes [[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] ([[User talk:ItachiWasAHero|talk]]) 03:50, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
   
:Here, everything that happens because of the character or had some lasting effect to others because of the character goes under Legacy. In the case of the First, the Will of Fire, Yamato, and Kabuto's enhancements, all count under the "Legacy" heading. Legacy is the best word we can come up with for such as section because "Post-Death" or something like that sounds very un-encyclopedic.--'''[[User:TheUltimate3|TheUltimate3]]'''[[User Talk:TheUltimate3| ~Keeper of Lore~ ]] 22:23, March 7, 2012 (UTC)
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And another thing, the ages for Hashi and Tobirama were never given, so stop assuming. [[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] ([[User talk:ItachiWasAHero|talk]]) 04:01, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
   
@Cerez365: I never said that a person's legacy only consists of the positive things. But the difference is, Tobirama actually invented Edo Tensei. Hashirama didn't invent the genetic Wood Release power-ups. So. it's not nitpicking; it's arguing about proper word choice.
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What's your point? Nothing you wrote is anything new. Also nowhere it's said that a Kage can't teach a team.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:01, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
   
@TheUltimate3: Even according to your definition I'm having trouble understanding it. The only ''"lasting effect to others"'' that somewhat supports the argument is other people's desire to have Wood Release. But that's like saying that a billionaire's legacy is the fact that a huge number of people envy them (or hate them).
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Your smart ass replies are not needed around here. Yes it is true that it isn't stated they can't have a team. But being confound to an office to do paper work all the time, and going to meetings and what not.. I severely doubt any Kages would have a whole team. It has been shown that a Kage can mentor a single student such as Hiruzen with Hashi/Tobirama, Deidara with Onoki, Gaara with his Father and etc.. but it was NEVER proven any actual Kages have taken on any teams for themselves. [[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] ([[User talk:ItachiWasAHero|talk]]) 02:51, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
   
Anyway, I get what you (TheUltimate3) are trying to say. And if there were 3 paragraphs that would describe his actual legacy, and say 3 paragraphs that don't really fit, I probably would not be arguing. Then I'd probably agree that it's ''the best word we can come up with''. But it's 1(!) paragraph about his actual legacy---which is at the end too---and 4(!) paragraphs that talk about the fact that power hungry people desire his Wood Release. It also states that 59 dead children due to Orochimaru's experiments are Hashirama's legacy. Not to mention that the section starts with:
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:Except [[Team Tobirama|Tobirama did have a team]], Deidara never trained under Onoki and Gaara was never trained by his father; in fact his father spent like what, close to a decade trying to kill him.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 06:31, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
:''Because of the ''legacy'' of the Senju who are said to be direct descendants of the Sage of the Six Paths and the kekkei genkai that Hashirama possessed, his DNA became highly coveted.''
 
while it actually talks about the '''heritage''' of the Senju. Call the section '''Biological clones and genetic experiments''' for all I care. Just don't call it something it isn't.--[[User:Joolushko Tunai Fenta Hovalis|Joolushko Tunai Fenta Hovalis]] ([[User talk:Joolushko Tunai Fenta Hovalis|talk]]) 00:34, March 8, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
I'm sorry, arguing over what a section should be called can be deemed nothing but unnecessary nitpicking. It's a simple thing: For all intents and purposes of the wikia, anything that is done/effect a person has on others or plot/anything done with this person's corpse or anything that someone might take from the aforementioned corpse and do with it after the person in question's death be it voluntary or involuntary, purposeful or accidental, falls under the broad, generic heading of <nowiki>"== Legacy =="</nowiki> I really don't see a reason to be making this into an issue.--[[User talk:Cerez365|Cerez<sub>365</sub>™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]] 00:51, March 8, 2012 (UTC)
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Smart ass replies? You really should check out some professional help for your own sake. It was not "smart ass" I just didn't get your point at all. Also to clarify now that we are at it:
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* As Ultimate said, Team Tobirama. Hiruzen was officially Tobirama's student. Hashirama also trained him, but in a similar manner to Jiraiya taking care of Naruto.
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* I believe it has been stated somewhere that Ohnoki was Deidara's sensei, but I remember people having troubles finding reference or something?
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* In the anime at least, Gaara said his father taught him many forbidden techniques. But that's not student-teacher/jounin commander-genin team relationship. [[Baki]] was his sensei.
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* Re-checking your post again, is your point an attempt on speculation to prove a point on Hiruzen being possibly younger despite looking older when teaching to-be Sannin and when looking younger (when Tobirama died) him being in fact older?
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Congratulations for your lack of logic, people usually age over time, not get better looking.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:59, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
   
== Classification ==
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I said don't assume the pictures of him with the Genin Sannins with brown facial hair was when he was 24, we don't know how long they were Genin.. Itachi basically looks the same at 21 that he did at 13. So don't assume they were kids or teens in the chapter that Saru was made Kage and Tobirama sacrificed himself for them. Also Deidara looks 15.... but he is 19. Yagura was an adult... but looks 12-13. Roshi was an old man, but looked 40 max. They were small and adults. Your assumptions and presumptions don't hold any ground here. At all. [[Special:Contributions/96.241.55.117|96.241.55.117]] ([[User talk:96.241.55.117|talk]]) 03:42, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
   
Why is he classificated as a medical nin? I thought kage would be more important to mention...{{unsigned|Antonino200}}
 
:Kage was his rank. [[User:Jacce|Jacce]] | [[User talk:Jacce|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jacce|Contributions]] 17:29, March 10, 2012 (UTC)
 
::Kage is a rank not a classification. He was stated to be able to use medical ninjutsu in the manga. Though I am sceptic about whether or not that really made him a medical-nin.
 
   
Did not Tsunade create the organization in Konoha/class of a ninja that are known as Medical Ninja ?
 
I remember when she asked the Konoha council to give permission to train such ninja.
 
Thus the term "medical ninja" was used from Tsunade and later on unless Im wrong.
 
Hashirama being able to heal his own wounds does not make him a medical ninja.
 
--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:53, March 10, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
I don't recall that instance particularly well, but what Tsunade wanted was for every team to have a medical-nin. I understood that moment as medical-nin existing, though few in number, and not mandatory to be in every team. She didn't create the category, she just advocated for a greater focus in training and employing medical ninja. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 19:02, March 10, 2012 (UTC)
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== Error? ==
:Yes she advocated for more of them to be trained and field medics to be added to every team as a way of increasing survival rates. To me it sounds like she revolutionised that aspect of medical ninja(dom O.o) not the idea of medical ninja since there always seemed to be hospitals.--[[User talk:Cerez365|Cerez<sub>365</sub>™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]] 19:17, March 10, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
But should we list him as a med-nin just cause he could heal himself ? Unless we see him healing others I don't think so ... and even if then, Krain can heal others but she ain't a med-nin.
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Wait, if Hashirama was able to break the binding of theimpure world resurrection so easily this time, why didn't he do it the first time he was resurrected!?!?!?!?--[[Special:Contributions/72.135.19.126|72.135.19.126]] ([[User talk:72.135.19.126|talk]]) 03:53, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
Med-nin is a ninja specialization.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:16, March 10, 2012 (UTC)
 
:I know it's a bit strange, but I don't see any reason not to add him as a med-nin when I think about it. Karin heals people yes, but unlike Hashirama she's never been stated to use medical ninjutsu — which is what a medical nin does regardless of whom it is that they heal. Chiyo for example is a puppeteer but she still falls under the classification "medical-nin" even if it wasn't what she was renown for.--[[User talk:Cerez365|Cerez<sub>365</sub>™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]] 23:31, March 10, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
i think we're being slightly to hasty when we call him a medical ninja despite what madara said.
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That um..... that's a pretty good point.[[Special:Contributions/71.71.58.231|71.71.58.231]] ([[User talk:71.71.58.231|talk]]) 04:05, February 14, 2013 (UTC) Yomiko-chan
we have to make the distinction between being a medical ninja ( meaning you could also heal other people) and having regenerative properties (like kurama cloak naruto). so far it has only been stated by madara that "he could ''heal himself without using handsigns'' which sounds more like regeneration instead of actual medical ninjutsu.--{{unsigned|Iowndisciti}}
 
:Madara never said anything about regeneration. In the conversation, he berated Tsunade's medical ninjutsu skills while comparing them to Hashirama's technique'''s''' (pages 14-15 chpt 576). Just because a medical nin may heal themselves, doesn't mean it's not medical ninjutsu. For all we know Hashirama may (or may not) have used his abilities to heal others. Madara was simply speaking about his battle specifically where four persons were involved — obviously he's not going to heal Kurama and we don't know exactly when Mito arrived on the scene. There are persons who are not main sensory types for example but are classified as such because they have the ability to do so.--[[User talk:Cerez365|Cerez<sub>365</sub>™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]] 11:29, March 11, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
== Contract Seal ==
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Difference in if they had the controlling tags in them or not. [[User:Naito Kiyami|Naito Kiyami]] ([[User talk:Naito Kiyami|talk]]) 06:05, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
   
It's my understanding that the OVA from Naruto Shippuden Storm Generations is considered anime only cannon, as Madara has Wind release from his use of it in the OVA. So my question is, should Contract Seal be added to Hashirama? He appears to use it around the 4:45 mark by the vid I watched of it. [[User:Arrancar79|Arrancar79]] ([[User talk:Arrancar79|talk]]) 02:16, March 12, 2012 (UTC)
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:They weren't resurrected with their full power during the first time ('''Chapter 620, Pg12''').--'''~ [[User:UltimateSupreme|<span style="color:blue;">Ultimate</span>]][[User talk:UltimateSupreme|<span style="color:#EE2C2C;">Supreme</span>]]''' 06:08, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
I'm not sure if this should be listed as an OVA/OAV. It is an original animated video, but it was meant for the game. I'm really not sure how to approach this because a lot of the cutscenes in the game, which were retellings, did not follow the established canon. [[User:Diamonddeath|Diamonddeath]] ([[User talk:Diamonddeath|talk]]) 05:53, March 16, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
== Strength of a Hundred Technique ==
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:That makes sense, cos no matter how strong Hiru was, he shouldn't have been able to beat Hashi and Tobi together. [[Special:Contributions/87.254.80.51|87.254.80.51]] ([[User talk:87.254.80.51|talk]]) 23:03, March 27, 2013 (UTC)
   
Madara said that the this technique can used and Hashirama!! it means that Hashirama too can use this technique?{{unsigned|Chghjik}}
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== Hashirama's Cells ==
:From what I read, Madara said that this technique was similar to Hashirama's ability. [[User:Jacce|Jacce]] | [[User talk:Jacce|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jacce|Contributions]] 05:02, March 15, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
It was just similar ... Tsunade created this technique and Madara never heard of it
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Recently, my edits of Hashirama's unique abilities were deleted; saying that it was made up. But if you recall, it was clearly said that Hashirama's cells alone gave various individuals one kind of enhancement or another. Saying its made up is like saying Hashirama had no power of his own, only people who took his cells. Furthermore, Hashirama was stated to represent one half of the Six Path Sage's power; namely his physical body and life force. That being said, please allow me to restore my edit.Steveo920, 1:48, February 14, 2013
--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 16:39, March 15, 2012 (UTC)
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: When was all that you wrote, shown?--'''~ [[User:UltimateSupreme|<span style="color:blue;">Ultimate</span>]][[User talk:UltimateSupreme|<span style="color:#EE2C2C;">Supreme</span>]]''' 06:57, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
   
== Tailed Beasts ==
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: Again, it was stated that various characters enhanced themselves through Hashirama's cells to gain even a portion of his powers. Yamato and Danzo gained the Wood Release purely through Hashirama's cells, Madara extended his life through the cells, and Obito gained regenerative powers through Hashirama's cells. Steveo920, 2:57, February 14, 2013
   
Did he have them against Madara when battling him or took control of them later ?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:07, June 9, 2012 (UTC)
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== Rashomon Gates. ==
:I think by the time of the battle, they were already given out to the other villages. Though it would seem that some were in the wild(?) since Kumo made an attempt on capturing Kurama.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 23:15, June 9, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
So he couldn't have used them against Madara then ?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:40, June 9, 2012 (UTC)
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As we've in this chapter 621, our beloved First Hokage can use the Rashomon Gates, in his case, the largest version seen so far. Now for the key question...can he use the lesser versions of it? I believe so...if he can bring out five, more than likely he can bring out three or even just one. Opinions and thoughts are appreciated. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 13:22, February 20, 2013 (UTC)
:Dunno. With the little information we have, anything's possible.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 23:53, June 9, 2012 (UTC)
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Logically. One who can use 1000 clones can also do 1 clone--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:33, February 20, 2013 (UTC)
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@TheUltimate3, we list Oro as a user of [[Summoning: Rashōmon]] as well, so why shouldn't we list Hashi as a user of three and one gates respectively?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:47, February 20, 2013 (UTC)
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:Because I didn't know Orochimaru used the One Gate.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 13:50, February 20, 2013 (UTC)
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He actually didn't, I think(at least I don't recall it). He is being listed for the same reasons as users of Multiple Shadow Clone Technique automatically get it's lesser form, nope?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:57, February 20, 2013 (UTC)
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:Pretty much yeah. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 13:59, February 20, 2013 (UTC)
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:I thought orochimaru is listened because Sakon said something like "this technique which originally belongs to orochimaru-sama...." after he used it with his brother.[[Special:Contributions/87.188.251.131|87.188.251.131]] ([[User talk:87.188.251.131|talk]]) 18:59, February 20, 2013 (UTC)
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Shouldn't it be edited to show that Hashirama summoned 5 gates instead of three?--[[User:JUP173R|JUP173R]] ([[User talk:JUP173R|talk]]) 20:13, February 20, 2013 (UTC)
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: It is edited...sometimes recently created techniques take time to show up on character infoboxes. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 20:26, February 20, 2013 (UTC)
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: Ok I would like to ask some of the sempai's to pay attention to this discussion, as we need consensus. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 23:10, February 20, 2013 (UTC)
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::Orochimaru is listed as using just one gate because as far as I recall, Sakon mentioned Orochimary having thought it to him, or something along those lines. He gave Oro credit for using it. Now, on whether Hashirama can use one or three gates, this is the very same discussion I had with another user regarding Madara, Fire Release: Dragon Flame Release Song Technique and Fire Release: Great Dragon Fire Technique. I was for listing Madara as a user of both techniques, since DFRS is simply put five GDFs fired at once. The point was raised that chronologically, DFRS came first, so it's within the realm of possibility of that being the original conceptualised technique, with GDF being developed later as a lesser form of the technique. I personally don't like it, as I believe the clone example someone used above to explain it perfectly, but I find the reasoning used valid enough to live with, so until someone says that the basic version is the original technique, and the advanced one is the derived one, I think they can be listed as related. At the moment, Madara is listed as using DFRS, that technique is listed as parent to GDF, which Madara is not listed as a user of. In a less canon example, Eight Trigrams Thirty Two Palms is derived from Sixty Four Palms, but it's a lesser version of it. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 23:34, February 20, 2013 (UTC)
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== God of Shinobi ==
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Why does the page refer to Hashirama by this title?, I don't recall anyone calling him it at any point. [[User:TricksterKing|TricksterKing]] ([[User talk:TricksterKing|talk]]) 05:32, February 22, 2013 (UTC)
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Suigetsu did like two chapters ago.--[[User:Yomiko-chan|Yomiko-chan]] ([[User talk:Yomiko-chan|talk]]) 05:35, February 22, 2013 (UTC)
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Dunno how I missed that. [[User:TricksterKing|TricksterKing]] ([[User talk:TricksterKing|talk]]) 05:37, February 22, 2013 (UTC)
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Just an ability-wise question, should not It be worth mentioning that he might be strongest member that the Senju clan has ever produced, and that Hashirama emerged unharmed after everyone of his battles with Madara Uchiha, including their final battle?--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 21:17, June 7, 2013 (UTC)
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:Unless it's been stated that he is the strongest ever senju, we won't add it. Him surviving all his battles with Madara is already stated and unless it's said that he didn't get hurt at all, it's speculation to say he was unharmed during the fights with Madara, also not really worth mentioning since he is already mentioned as the winner of all the fights. [[User:TricksterKing|TricksterKing]] ([[User talk:TricksterKing|talk]]) 22:22, June 7, 2013 (UTC)
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I see, point taken and noted.--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 22:28, June 7, 2013 (UTC)
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Because I read and through the most recent chapters and I saw that he emerged unharmed from his final battle with Madara Uchiha, I do not want to spoil anything it's just that Madara struck down a Wood Release clone, in their final battle which enabled Hashirama to strike him, from behind without Madara noticing until it was too late, when shown after that, Hashirama was shown unscratched. That's all I am so very sorry for spoiling it for you.--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 22:34, June 7, 2013 (UTC)
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: I think that would just be called surviving, unharmed would mean that he took no damage at all during the battle. [[User:TricksterKing|TricksterKing]] ([[User talk:TricksterKing|talk]]) 22:55, June 7, 2013 (UTC)
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The thing is he did emerge unharmed with out any scratches at all, with only a missing sandal, and a slightly damaged sleeve on one side, no scratches so surely that would be worth mentioning under his abilities and powers.--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 00:38, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
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My fault it turns out he lost an entire section of sleeve and armor on one side and his one arm slightly burned, during his final battle with Madara, but otherwise no serious injuries.--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 02:14, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
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Are those last things regarding Madara and Hashirama's final battle worth mentioning under Hashirama's abilities and powers?--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 02:29, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
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:I'd say they aren't worth mentioning, but you could try to put them there and see if they get reverted or not. [[User:TricksterKing|TricksterKing]] ([[User talk:TricksterKing|talk]]) 14:10, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
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Speculation, Hashirama has some healing no jutsu, doesn't mean he left unharmed each time, quite the opposite, we see him all bloody in flashbacks at least once. The time before their final battle after Izuna's death, it wasn't 1v1, Tobirama and dozen other Senju were there along with Hashirama to defeat Madara and at VOTE he let himself be defeated--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:08, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
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== Family ==
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So is there a reason why his brother, Tobirama, isn't catalogued with his family? Scratch that, none of his brothers are added to the family section. Do you guys just not like the idea of Hashirama having siblings? [[Special:Contributions/76.235.4.251|76.235.4.251]] ([[User talk:76.235.4.251|talk]]) 07:44, March 6, 2013 (UTC)
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:Heavens no! Semantics take a while to bridge the relations correctly because there is now a parent in common whose article was recently renamed, the information is no longer manually listed. Please bear with us, as it updates.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 08:27, March 6, 2013 (UTC)
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Oh, updates. K. Thnx for response. [[Special:Contributions/76.235.4.251|76.235.4.251]] ([[User talk:76.235.4.251|talk]]) 09:24, March 6, 2013 (UTC)
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Kawarama isn't his brother that needs to be removed.--[[User:Anamantiumninja|Anamantiumninja]] ([[User talk:Anamantiumninja|talk]]) 02:08, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
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:This is already discussed at length on Kawarama's page and until it's proven false, it stays. Learn to read between the lines.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 02:42, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
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No, it should be removed until proven true otherwise you just added information that isn't true because its what you think.--[[User:Anamantiumninja|Anamantiumninja]] ([[User talk:Anamantiumninja|talk]]) 10:44, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
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:Why wouldn't he be Hashi's bro? ~[[User:IndxcvNovelist|IndxcvNovelist]] <sup>([[User talk:IndxcvNovelist|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/IndxcvNovelist|contribs]] | [[w:c:phoenixrising|PR]] | [[w:c:rockleespinoff|RLS]])</sup> 10:56, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
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He could be but they never said or called him brother. So it should be removed until proven true.--[[User:Anamantiumninja|Anamantiumninja]] ([[User talk:Anamantiumninja|talk]]) 11:03, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
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:Again, not going to change. It was implied that Kawarama was his brother. Apart from the fact that he looks exactly like them, when Madara spoke of his brothers, Hashirama remembered Itama and Kawarama, why would it be necessary to even bring Kawarama back into the story and at that point, if we weren't supposed to realise that he was their brother as well? --[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 12:27, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
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Not to mention his name also ends with "rama"--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:48, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
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I find this fact to be very funny. But what about [[Toka Senju]]. What's her relationship to him? [[User:Animaster334|Animaster334]] ([[User talk:Animaster334|talk]]) 12:54, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:So far, she's only been mentioned to be a close confidant of Hashirama's, and his relative obviously. What does she have to do with anything? Not everything in a series is going to be thrown out into your face, and I know too much can be put into subtleties, but at first we weren't going to list him as a broher but that flashback pretty much concreted the fact that he's their brother. I mean look at them, they look like a perfect set.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 13:04, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
If people are still too dumb to think for themselves, stubborn and ignorant, perhaps we should do the same as with Konan's person of god jutsu and put up a warning up there--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:07, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
Still, is it a common thing that nearly all the males end with "-rama" in the Senju clan if they're males? I heard this on a forum. [[User:Animaster334|Animaster334]] ([[User talk:Animaster334|talk]]) 13:11, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
Nawaki, Butsuma don't for example--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:13, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
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@vCerez365, did you guys ever consider the fact they could be cousins. Cousins can close like brothers, my cousin is like my brother. The manga didn't concrete the fact they were brothers.--[[User:Anamantiumninja|Anamantiumninja]] ([[User talk:Anamantiumninja|talk]]) 19:00, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
The pre-Konoha male Senju end in "-ma", not "-rama". Look at the kanji for their name. The "ra" is just a coincidence between Hashirama, Tobirama and Kawarama, from the other kanji in their names. Nawaki is post-Konoha. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 01:14, April 12, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
Cousin is much more speculative than brother, also I doubt that his uncle was responsible for him--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 14:14, April 12, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
We don't know if Botsuma was responsible for him.--[[User:Anamantiumninja|Anamantiumninja]] ([[User talk:Anamantiumninja|talk]]) 16:34, April 14, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
At least put presumably --[[User:Anamantiumninja|Anamantiumninja]] ([[User talk:Anamantiumninja|talk]]) 23:09, April 19, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
== Missing Jutsus ==
  +
  +
There are some jutsus by Hashirama Senju that weren't added to his Jutsu section on his profile page :
  +
  +
Wood Clone Technique (Manga only)
  +
Wood Release: Wood Locking Wall (Anime only)
  +
Bringer-of-Darkness Technique (Manga only)
  +
Chakra Sensing Technique (Manga only)
  +
Contract Seal (Anime only) {{unsigned|LaRoux4Life}}
  +
:Should be fixed, let me know if you see any other problems. — [[User talk:Simant|S<small>im</small>A<small>nt</small>]] 22:35, May 9, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
== More Missing Jutsus & Tool ==
  +
  +
I found more Jutsus by Hashirama Senju that weren't added too and here they are :
  +
  +
Wood Release: Wood Dragon Technique - Sage Art: Wood Release: True Several Thousand Hands - Wood Clone Technique (Manga only) - Wood Release: Advent of a World of Flowering Trees - Wood Release: Hōbi Technique
  +
  +
Tools :
  +
  +
Scroll of Seals
  +
  +
P.S It seems when new stuff are added to the infobox, It leads to delete the older existed stuff there because i'm pretty sure the Jutsus and tool i mentioned where already there and existed when i checked yesterday.--[[Special:Contributions/2.50.216.33|2.50.216.33]] ([[User talk:2.50.216.33|talk]]) 08:03, May 10, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:This is a known issue; read the homepage.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 11:36, May 10, 2013 (UTC)
  +
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So umm.. Can someone add those missing jutsus to his section ?--{{unsigned|LaRoux4Life}}
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:Let me try this again. The techniques and tools are there. The list is NOT working properly.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 12:08, May 10, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::The problem that is that every time a page with multivalued properties is saved, the values themselves alternate in being able to be returned as paramaters by the system but can still be searched by. The labels themselves are saved and that is why they all can be seen when you click the Jutsu header. — [[User talk:Simant|S<small>im</small>A<small>nt</small>]] 20:51, May 10, 2013 (UTC)
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:::Yes, what SimAnt said, just not with fancy words like multivalalaled.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 04:39, May 11, 2013 (UTC)
  +
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== THE strongest? ==
  +
  +
I found a small contradiction: In the personality section Hashirama is described as "the man known as the most powerful shinobi to have ever lived". Although he is indeed one of the most powerful shinobi, he is not THE most powerful, since it has been stated that Hiruzen was the strongest of the 5 Hokage, and both of them arguably pale in comparison to the Sage of the Six Paths (does he count?). It should be written as "ONE of the most powerful shinobi to have ever lived" instead.
  +
([[User:Xurono|Xurono]] ([[User talk:Xurono|talk]]) 04:26, May 14, 2013 (UTC))
  +
:Fixed.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 12:37, May 14, 2013 (UTC)
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::Can i correct Hashirama is by far the strongest as all the kage past and present are no match for madara and hashirama is the only one who can defeat madara, goes to show that he really was the strongest so strong that madara even tried to amplify his power by using hashirama's cells that shows that he wouldn't even bother with other kage only hashirama and hashirama captured all the tailed beasts something hiruzen obviously could not do --[[User:ROOT 根|ROOT 根]] ([[User talk:ROOT 根|talk]]) 16:52, May 14, 2013 (UTC)
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:::I still believe Hiruzen has been retconned out of being the strongest Kage, can't see him beating full-strength Hashirama even in his youth--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 16:56, May 14, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::::I agree with you both, just compared him with the information already given before the war; far better to just outright admit there was a retcon it terms of strenght than just initiate a pointless argument of "BUT HE WAS OLD!", "BUT ORO´S EDO WAS RESTRAINING HIM!", etc. Just hope Kishi makes Hiruzen at least "live" up to his title as the God of Shinobi to correct this contradiction; Yet the Sage is still THE strongest. (I KNOW THIS IS NOT A FORUM) Honestly, the "fairy tale strenght" is impossible to call as such; Hiruzen knew Hashirama and his power first hand (and by extension, the Konoha elders and even Danzou), thus he had knowledge of and was able to counter most of the attacks during the fight; he didn´t learn all that of a fairy tale. Just another contradiction, yet this one is impossible to correct since it was stated in the manga, right?--([[User:Xurono|Xurono]] ([[User talk:Xurono|talk]]) 04:12, May 15, 2013 (UTC))
  +
:It does not matter whether or not he is the strongest shinobi, the reference for the information hailed him only as the God of Shinobi, nothing more. It was edited to reflect that.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 05:05, May 15, 2013 (UTC)
  +
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== Physical strength, reflexes, worth mentioning etc? ==
  +
  +
Should Hashirama's speed, reflexes, and strength be mentioned under his abilities & powers be worth mentioning, as he shown himself to be capable of wielding large and heavy tools, as well as equipment without it slowing him down, and being able to strike down Madara before he even a chance to react?--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 02:38, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
   
 
== Power? ==
 
== Power? ==
just needed clarification
 
hashirama is said to have such great powers
 
but wen u look at how madara is fightin rite now
 
and wen u look at hashirama's fight against the third
 
the power difference seems huge
 
even though hashirama is well known to be stronger than madara
 
do u get y this is? {{unsigned|70.50.109.94}}
 
:I believe Orochimaru's Edo Tensei was flawed or something to that effect as said by Kabuto.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 10:22, July 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
::Orochimaru erased Hashirama's personality, and had their battle was limited by the barrier that kept others out. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 20:21, July 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
You must remember that a user is in control of the Edo's action. Orochimaru simply didn't know all of their capabilities, while Madara was given a green light from Kabuto to do as he please--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 20:41, July 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
that does make more sense :)--{{unsigned|99.244.72.105}}
+
Is it worth mentioning that when Hashirama was alive, he was able to stop his younger brother Tobirama from killing Madara with just a glare; under his abilities & powers?--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 00:37, June 16, 2013 (UTC)--
  +
:Just curious, do you have some kind of disability or something? Talking about your habit of whatever that is. For the question. a glare isn't a power, it's a display of dominance and Tobirama showing him respect--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 01:02, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
No I do not have a disability, I am just being honest; plus I was asking about because it seemed like it my be important what's wrong with that?--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 01:17, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:That's not what I was talking about, I meant you adding unnecessary spaces in front of your sentences--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:22, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
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::Information is already mentioned throughout their respective articles.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 14:31, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
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  +
How about that his power was enough to frighten his former student, Hiruzen Sarutobi; who is also renowned as the "God of Shinobi" during his lifetime and after being reincarnated alongside both his predecessors and successors?--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 22:00, July 2, 2013 (UTC)
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Unnecessary. It speaks for itself. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 01:18, July 3, 2013 (UTC)
  +
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== Slug Sage Mode ==
  +
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There were three places mentioned where Sage Mode could be learned: the toad mountain, snake cave and Shikkotsu (?) forrest. Chapter 635 confirms that Katsuyu is from Shikkotsu forest. It is therefore most likely Hashirama, like his granddaughter, could summon slugs and mastered Sage Mode under their tutelage.--[[User:Reliops|Reliops]] ([[User talk:Reliops|talk]]) 18:39, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
   
== Maternal Grandfather? ==
+
: Most likely, yes. Confirmed, no. The truth is, we don't know the nature behind Hashirama's Sage Mode, nor do we know what he has the ability to summon, because its never been stated, shown, or even hinted at. We do not insert speculation into articles, no matter how likely it would seem. Therefore, until confirmed by the manga or a databook, nothing will be added to Hashirama to reflect this. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 18:59, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::First, for the 100th time, there's no such thing as "slug/toad/snake sage mode" just Sage Mode. Second, nowhere it's been mentioned that they teach it in Slug's forest too, it was stated to be just equally famous place. There's no logical reason why should the technique be unique just to the 3 species.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:41, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
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:::@Elveonora explain to me one thing. Why the incomplete Jiraya's Sage Mode looked like a frog? Why when gathering natural energy teached by the toads they turn into frog statues if they couldn't control the natural chakra? Why naruto when gathering natural chakra and entering Sage Mode gains frog-like eyes? Do you think that learning with snakes the pupil will turn into frog if couldn't control their way to gather natural energy? Of course there is such thing. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 22:40, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::::[[Talk:Sage Mode|Take it at to the right place.]]--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 22:44, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
   
Is it possible that Hashirama is Tsunade's maternal grandmother? I remember seeing when Tsunade met Hashirama she was baby, there was a woman holding her who bear a great resemblance to Hashirama. I assume that woman is Tsunade's mother, therefore that would make the woman Hashirama's daughter. So does this mean that Hashirama is Tsunade's maternal grand father?--[[User:Black Ronin8|Black Ronin8]] ([[User talk:Black Ronin8|talk]]) 12:07, July 31, 2012 (UTC)Black Ronin8
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@Dan, the point being that he could be a rabbit sage for all we know, don't assume he was taught at slug bones forest (thought slugs have none by the way)--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:53, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
:[http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3380/3595801936_e8675b2e0b.jpg The image you're referring to] is inaccurate, that is why it's not used here. Hashirama would have been long since dead before Tsunade was born. As for whether or not he could be her maternal grandfather, yes anything is possible.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 12:10, July 31, 2012 (UTC)
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:Slug i agree with you 100%, "Rabbit got me LOL xD", Snake Sage Mode i think is not the right term, but there isn't a better term to define the Sage Mode teached by frogs into Mount Myōboku, the same goes by snake. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 23:02, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
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::I saw beautiful pictures of Sakura in Sage mode her hair grew long, her body has a figure, and cherry-blossoms sort of came out of her hair. One in color and one in black and white. The true form of Sakura with that mode is that she has become the forces of nature b/c of that cherry-blossoms came out of her hair. B/C of her chakra control, she can mentally control things using her chakra. Someone said that her seal represents the Buddha's of the physical and spiritual energy that she'll use it to have Sage Mode. Though none of it has happen but those pics were pretty (except the one in black and white b/c in that color her eyes are scary to me). I wish those pics I seen will happen but my guess is it won't. Yeah I think Eleveonora is right we just call it Frog Snake and Slug Sage Mode by those names b/c you know its the kind of animal of the Sage Mode their in.[[User:Inoyamanaka98|Inoyamanaka98]] ([[User talk:Inoyamanaka98|talk]]) 02:14, June 20, 2013 (UTC)Inoyamanaka98
   
Ah, I should've realized that that, lol. And did you notice that the woman in that image almost resembles Mito, to some degree?--[[User:Black Ronin8|Black Ronin8]] ([[User talk:Black Ronin8|talk]]) 12:40, July 31, 2012 (UTC)Black Ronin8
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hi there i could be wrong but hashirama taught the third hokage who uses monkey sage so their for it would make sense for him to be a monkey sage (monkeys look cooler in the tree then slugs) ([[User:KnightofCydonia19|KnightofCydonia19]] ([[User talk:KnightofCydonia19|talk]]) 22:13, October 10, 2013 (UTC))
:She does, I suppose but Mito wouldn't be that old and Hashirama still looking that young however.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 12:44, July 31, 2012 (UTC)
 
:: I'm afraid to say it's very accurate, Cerez. Why you ask? 'Cause it was shown in the episode where Jiraiya and Naruto found Tsunade and Shizune. --[[User_talk:X29|X29]] 17:20, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
 
:::I think he means that it's inaccurate in relation to the manga. I don't even recall an image like that in the manga. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 17:39, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
::::Thank you, Third Lord Admin. In that case, it's not really accurate,. But I'm sure Kishimoto authorized it. --[[User_talk:X29|X29]] 17:48, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
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== Byakugō no In? ==
  +
Ok, it may sound stupid it may not, i know that everyone asks why didn't Hashirama looks older in Tsunade's photo, and then hit me, may it be Byakugō no In? He could used it like Tsunade use the seal to look always young right? Attention, I am not saying to add Hashirama as a user, but i think that he is very probable to be. What you people think? [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 23:38, June 21, 2013 (UTC)
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:Hashirama doesn't look old because he didn't die old. He died around the first great war after the founding of shinobi villages. Besides, no diamond mark in his head, and I'm certain he'd have loads of chakra. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 01:17, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
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::Which photo? And no, he isn't a user. For his age, I redid the math again and realized that age of consent in Japan is quite low, so it can't be estimated due to this fact. But if we go by him becoming a father at 18 and his child the same, then he would be 40 in the flashback with Tsunade '''at the least'''. So his age is immeasurable, because for all we know, he was a 26+ years old grandfather, so could be about 30 in the Tsunade flashback as well ._. we also don't know if he lived past Tsunade's 4th birthday. His gambling comment suggests that is the way he remembers her, but his comment about her strength doesn't, unless she was a super child.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 11:15, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
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:::Hum, Tsunade has a photo with Hashirama i think, and in that flashback he musted be much older then that, 18? god, when he founded Konohagakure how old was he? The timeline is confuse but i think he died much more older then that. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 12:12, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
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::::If you refer to the anime-only flashback with arguably old Mito and Hashirama caressing Tsunade, then yeah, not canon. Other than that, I don't know of any "photo" and we don't know how old he was at x point in time. If we did, then we could easily calculate his age. Again, I originally forgot this is a story written by a Japanese guy, their culture is different from mine or yours. Sex in Japan is legal from 13 upwards, but an adult is a person of age 20 and older. We don't know if his "adventures" with Mito date back to his minor years or if they met after he became head of the clan.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:30, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
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:::::Yes i refer the anime-only flashback. I think their "adventures" came after he became head of the clan, when the Uzumaki's made a treaty with Konoha, even if Japonese culture is different, we never saw in the anime someone dating for real at 13 years old, saying that i doubt that Hashirama was grandfather at the age of 30, i believe it could be the White Strength Seal, @Omnibender Tsunade's Seal isn't always visible or is?. And yes the photo is canon. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 12:43, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
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::::::Only time I recall Tsunade not having the seal visible is when she spends most, if not all the chakra in it, which has happened only three times: when she fought against Orochimaru in Part I, when she healed most of Konoha during Pain's Invasion, and after Strength of a Hundred drained her against Madara. Don't think the photo is canon either. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 16:42, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
   
Thanks for the edit Omni, it confuses me when people reply to the middle of a topic.
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This is a big assumption of mine, maybe... Almost for certain i am wrong, but there's a little hope that it may be Byakugō no In ^_^. [[User:Dan.Faulkner|Dan.Faulkner]] ([[User talk:Dan.Faulkner|talk]]) 20:33, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
Besides, I don't think it's mentioned in "anime-manga differences" how is it?
 
Not only:
 
* Hashirama was dead when Tsunade was a baby
 
* Mito was likely about the same age as him
 
* The only explanation I can come up with: Mito was aging older due to messed up Uzumaki genes, and Hashirama is there as a ghost.
 
* Seriously, it's a continuity error and if the lady is supposed to be Mito, it's GROSS as well... I don't think Hashi was into grannies.
 
@K29, dunno if to reply "stop trolling" or "I see what you did there, lol" I know that Kishimoto is a perv, but this is too much even for him... LOL--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:50, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
:Lady, I meant that Kishi authorized this picture to be allowed, not what your mind thinks of. --[[User_talk:X29|X29]] 17:54, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
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We have no age for tobirama and hashirama and madara's generation, and no other way to find out except for one possible hint.. Kakuzu's age. We also know Hiruzen and Danzo were 8 years old when Konoha was founded. It was founded 60 years before part 1. Kakuzu would have been 87 in the beginning of part 1, and if you take away 60 from 87 you get 27. So it is mostly speculation but I am going to say Hashi and his generation were around that age. [[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] ([[User talk:ItachiWasAHero|talk]]) 21:53, July 5, 2013 (UTC)
   
And you know that because... Kishi can't sit in the laps of the animation studio. He has no control over what they fuck up.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 18:09, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
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== No Jutsu Section ==
   
:Language lady, and please, he doesn't have to be there. I'm pretty sure they contact his work place and ask for permission on what they do........ or something like that. --[[User_talk:X29|X29]] 18:11, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
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OK there seems to be an error in the code of this page. The infobox completely lacks a Jutsu section. Refreshing doesn't work. please fix. ([[User:Evilpuppy|Evilpuppy]] ([[User talk:Evilpuppy|talk]]) 03:26, June 25, 2013 (UTC))
  +
:Should be fixed soon. — [[User talk:Simant|S<small>im</small>A<small>nt</small>]] 12:55, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
   
Uhm, I meant that if Tsunade was alive when Hashirama (who died before the First Shinobi World War) then she'd have to be older than 50. I used to think it was a usable image but Shounensuki discredited the timeline of the image/event.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 18:49, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
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== Unique Ability ==
   
:Hiruzen was present during the First Shinobi World War, and he looked like he was in his 20s. And by the time of the series, he was 69. So, Tsunade's age's sounds suitable for me. --[[User_talk:X29|X29]] 18:55, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
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I've been meaning to bring this up for a while now, but shouldn't we add [[Tailed Beast Control]] as a Unique skill to Hashi's infobox? Ever since Obito and Madara used his cells to subdue the Jubi, it's seeming to be implied that controlling Tailed Beasts is simply another Kekkai Genkai Hashirama possesses, with him also being able to channel it through [[Hokage-Style Sixty-Year-Old Technique — Kakuan Entering Society with Bliss-Bringing Hands|Wood Release]]. Also note Suki's translation of something Orochimaru said in part 2:
   
::I'm not a very big fan of ''timelining'' because my brain can't handle it and I do wish that I could find the discussion Shounen had about the image but I haven't been able to. Any way, Tobirama died '''before''' SWWI just to note, not during it, which means he could have died when Hiruzen was still a child, so I don't think you can use that as a benchmark for her being around during that time. Still, I dunno.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 19:24, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
+
''"I desired that power of the First Hokage, which allowed him to use Mokuton ninjutsu, unique amongst all shinobi, and what's more… which gave him the ability to manipulate the 'Bijū' at will… Kuku…" (「全忍の中で唯一 木遁忍術を使いさらに…"尾獣"を意のままに操る事が出来た初代火影の力が欲しくてね…クク…」, "Zennin no naka de yuiitsu Mokuton ninjutsu o tsukai nara ni… 'Bijū' o i no mama ni ayatsuru koto ga dekita Shodai Hokage no chikara ga hoshikute ne… Kuku…")''
   
:::My dear Cerez, my dear Cerez, you're mistaking the two Hokages. Hashirama, the one with the black hair, red armour and with the Wood Style Ninjutsu, is the first Hokage, while Tobirama, the one with the white hair, blue armour and the expert on Water Style Ninjutsu, Kenjutsu (In animé) and Space-Time Ninjutsu, is the second Hokage. Yes, ''Hashi''rama died before SWWI, but I'm pretty sure it was before it with a little while, since Hiruzen was alive during the reign of ''Hashi''rama, and I'm pretty sure ''Tobi''rama's reign wasn't that long. --[[User_talk:X29|X29]] 19:30, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
+
This, at least to me, hints at my view, since Orochimaru refers to Hashirama's power as what allowed him to use Wood Release and control Tailed Beasts, not that the former entailed the latter. [[User:Skitts|Skitts]] ([[User talk:Skitts|talk]]) 20:57, July 11, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:Yeah, hash dosed freaks can also control TB, I don't think that tentacle thing counts as wood release, or does it? Also note that [[Hokage-Style Sixty-Year-Old Technique — Kakuan Entering Society with Bliss-Bringing Hands]] lacks "Wood Release" in its name, suggesting that wood no jutsu only helps to channel it better while it ain't one--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:01, July 11, 2013 (UTC)
   
::::No, I have my Hokage straight. I don't believe either Hokage ruled for very long because of the era they were in, but I'm referring to [[:File:Team Tobirama.jpg|this time frame]] when I say that Hashirama could have died soon after that meaning Tsunade who is almost 20 years younger than Hiruzen(?) would have either been in a womb somewhere at most or not even a thoughtof as yet when her grandfather died.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 19:42, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
+
:Lol, it was classified as a Wood Release tech though. :-P [[User:Skitts|Skitts]] ([[User talk:Skitts|talk]]) 21:03, July 11, 2013 (UTC)
   
@X26
+
Sharingan allows for control of tailed beasts as well, do we list the Uchiha clan as having another kekkei genkai? I think this is just one of those things about a fictional setting we just have to accept. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 23:21, July 11, 2013 (UTC)
* What's with the language?
 
* I'm a guy, stop hitting on me.
 
-TIMELINE
 
* Hiruzen, Danzo and others were 22-23 during the First Shinobi War.
 
* The Sannin were almost 52 (late 51) in Part I. and are about 18 years younger than Hiruzen was.
 
* Tsunade in that image looks 1 year old, Hashirama was long dead during the end of Tobirama's reign.
 
* Hashirama has died when Hiruzen, Danzo and staff were about 12, and during the time of that Tsunade image, 19 years old.
 
* Thus Hashirama was dead for like 7 years and according to anime, appeared there as a ghost.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:45, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
Loooool at you two. Ah love is in the ai-I mean... 1 year old? at least 3 '~' So that still leaves him dead for 5 years.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 19:48, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
+
== sensors ==
   
1-3, the point stays, Hashirama was dead during her birth already. Why isn't it added in anime-manga differences though?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:59, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
+
I again forgot when and if he ever has shown any sensing--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:26, July 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:Tobirama mentions something like "I've always been better at sensing than you" during the Madara/Hashirama pre-Konoha flashbacks. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 01:13, July 18, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::Yes, but anyone senses to some degree or not? He hasn't noticed anyone with sensing yet. I think that alone doesn't count Omni and should be removed--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:17, July 18, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::He also noted that Oro was using his wood release to bind Tobirama. Everyone can sense.The same way you can possibly tell someone is watching you sometimes. Shinobi have honed senses but those things don't seem like basic sensing.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 17:40, July 18, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::::So why don't we list Kimimaro as a sensor? He noted Oro's chakra in himself. Either he is one or revived zombies can sense their summoner or something--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 18:01, July 18, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::::People can always detect strong chakra to some degree. Kakashi and Zabuza detected Naruto's Nine-Tails chakra during Land of Waves arc, neither are sensors. In the Forest of Death, everyone noticed Sasuke once the cursed seal kicked in, and we know those have Orochimaru's chakra. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 23:41, July 18, 2013 (UTC)
   
:@Elveonora
+
== Deja vu ==
:Apologies! The username gave me the impression that you were a girl, but it's kinda your fault for not listing yourself as a male. And I wasn't hitting on you in the slightest. And I think Hashirama was alive when she was a kid, but died soon after. As for the language, you should watch your language.The F and C and S words.
 
:@Cerez
 
:This isn't funny, mate. I have a girlfriend, and I'm pretty sure it'll tear her apart if she ever knew I was hitting on some other girl (Not you, Elveonora), which I'm not.
 
:--[[User_talk:X29|X29]] 20:22, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
* Apology accepted, even thought I'm sure you were aware all along that I'm a guy.
+
Just to summarize it again. A medical ninja is a ninja with expertise in medical fields as his/her specialized profession and heals others on battlefields.
* I'm not obliged to list personal information here.
 
* Just now you were proven wrong, so even if it's cute that you think that, the canon says otherwise.
 
* You keep your bird and reptile analogies and anti-perv genes, and I will express in my own way.
 
* Yeah, it will tear her apart that you are hitting on a guy.
 
--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 20:29, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
:*Yes, but it's not very personal, and it'll help to not cause anymore confusion like this. But I'm not telling you that you '''must'''. Just suggesting it to you.
+
A technique which allows one to self-heal might be a medical ninjutsu, but doesn't necessarily make the user a medical-ninja. We are yet to see Hashirama tending ill and wounded in a hospital or in combat.
:*The canon didn't say anything like that. If it did, I wouldn't be talking about it unless I didn't know of it being mentioned.
 
:*I'm afraid that every time you use wrong language, I'll have to...... alert you, shall we say, since I can't find any other word.
 
:*Which I wasn't.
 
   
:--[[User_talk:X29|X29]] 20:39, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
+
On top of that, medical ninja position and system was created by Tsunade, after Hashirama's time, therefore, Hashirama wasn't:
  +
* a medic for all we know, unless he had that as a hobby in spare time
  +
* a medical ninja as it didn't exist yet and he was said to could have healed his own body alone, not others'
  +
So would anyone oppose if I removed it from his infobox?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:53, August 11, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:Fixed.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 16:07, August 11, 2013 (UTC)
   
ShounenSuki sensei's timeline uses manga chapters and databooks as the source. I, and many others have calculated it many times.
+
:Just because the system was made after someone's time doesn't mean they couldn't be considered one. As for Hashirama, it was only mentioned that he could heal himself without seals, meaning he knew some form of medical ninjutsu but is not a medical ninja. I would consider him one (as of right now) as much as I would consider Hinata one for carrying around that ointment. [[User_Talk:Joshbl56|<span style="color:green;">Joshbl56</span>]] 16:12, August 11, 2013 (UTC)
Even sensei himself said so, if you can't trust his nor mine word for that, then look things up yourself.
 
Since then, there really isn't any point in this discussion. By the way, it went offtopic "_"--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 20:42, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
:What does Fourth Lord Admin has to do with this? And are you sure that Forth Lord Admin is a guy? --[[User_talk:X29|X29]] 20:46, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
+
Hey, did it actually say that Hashirama knew medical techniques??? what if it was just regeneration? like how Obito was able to heal rather than a medical technique???--[[User:Deathmailrock|Deathmailrock]] ([[User talk:Deathmailrock|talk]]) 23:12, October 31, 2013 (UTC)
   
Not sure if lack of reading comprehension, ignorance, or just bored and trolling. The topic is over, period.
+
Because Obito was rebuilt with the trees material, infused with Hashiramas DNA. Obito wasn't flesh and blood. Big difference. [[User:SusanooUnleashed|SusanooUnleashed]] ([[User talk:SusanooUnleashed|talk]]) 03:46, November 1, 2013 (UTC)
Unless you can prove otherwise using the material available, not your opinions.
 
Hard to tell if you are being serious or sarcastic now, by the way we aren't on forums here so cut the crap.
 
I don't care if Suki Sensei has a **** or a ***** it changes nothing.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 20:56, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
:Language, and I'm serious. What does Shounensuki have to do with this? --[[User_talk:X29|X29]] 21:17, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
+
== Hashi's chakra ==
   
He said the same, Hashirama already dead when Tsunade was born. Also the OP, what a retarded logic.
+
"The sheer volume of his own chakra is comparable to the combined chakra of [[Naruto Uzumaki]], [[Minato Namikaze]], and Kurama (the Yin and Yang halves in unison), which is vast enough to support the entire Allied Shinobi Forces, further indicating his immense levels. His chakra levels also made him suitable to learn [[senjutsu]] and enter [[Sage Mode]]."
The old babe doesn't exist, it's a mistake by the animation team. She is neither Mito (even though she really looks like her for some reason) and how can an old babe be a mother in such old age and have a MUCH younger looking father?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:27, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
I see. And he took all that info from databooks and the manga? Interesting. And I'm not saying the old lady holding Tsunade is Mito, although she looks like her, or that she's Tsunade's mum. But ''if'' she's Hashirama's daughter, then I guess his healing ability extended to the point where he doesn't look old at all. Not saying it's true, of course. Just speculation, which I won't discuss. --[[User_talk:X29|X29]] 22:46, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
+
was not he talking about only Naruto's chakra that he SHARED with alliance?
  +
Also, it worth to mention that the Naruto's half of Kurama was not even at his
  +
full chakra, and that's why he asked help from the other one.
   
Hahahahaha :D Wait... ur right O_o Tsunade mentioned something in reference to Tobi being immortal due to Hashi boob, maybe he had found the answer to aging or something "_" But nope cause as I said, I don't think that Hashirama's daughter would had children in such an advanced age, nor that Hashirama's daughter could look about the same age as his wife even years later after that supposed point in time on that photo. It's obviously a result of the animators not giving a fuck about things such as canon.
+
I think that statement is exaggerating too much. [[User:Rex-05|Rex-05]] ([[User talk:Rex-05|talk]]) 19:38, August 29, 2013 (UTC)rex-o5
Topic closed, we had some fun and now we can move along.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:52, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
:Either ways, knowing whether Tsunade was born before or after Hashirama died won't help us in the slightest. So, yes, we just close this topic with this: Nothing confirmed, only speculation for everyone, useless to confirm, thank you Narutopedia and goodnight! --[[User_talk:X29|X29]] 23:00, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
+
i think the reason its worded that way is because hashirama says that after tobirama explains that naruto and minato has synched their chakra through the nine tails, and seemingly acted as 1 chakra is how I understood it, maybe not. --[[User:J spencer93|J spencer93]] ([[User talk:J spencer93|talk]]) 21:06, August 29, 2013 (UTC)
   
==List==
+
It's not exaggerated, it's true. The chakras of the 4 are one and the same during this bonding. This guy isn't called "god of shinobi" for nothing, simply get over it.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:28, August 29, 2013 (UTC)
  +
: I'm sorry, but Hashirama calls it Naruto's chakra not 'their chakra'. He uses a singular pronoun and compares his own chakra to that of Naruto's. That's the way it looks to me at least.--[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 22:38, August 29, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::We may ask Seelentau for word to word translation if it's that troublesome. Sorry for threatening you, but I was talking into deaf ears. You take "his chakra" too literary, Kurama's chakra has been credited as his many times, that's because he controls it. According to MS's translation at least, Killer B says: "it's the kyubi's chakra both light and dark" and octopus notes "it's not just the kyubi" as there's some of Minato and Naruto's too, so the edit wasn't wrong. It's stated in the manga and again Naruto doesn't have enough chakra for 40 000 people and himself--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:44, August 29, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::: Hashirama could sense Naruto's though more prominently. He used a singular pronoun for it to directly compare himself to Naruto. And still, we had before Naruto's chakra being felt by non-sensors all the way in Konoha during chapter 616. Given how that without needing to suppress Kurama's chakra anymore made Naruto's full reserve 100 times that of Kakashi's, it shouldn't be that too far out that in terms of chakra quantity that he and Haashirama are equal.--[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 23:05, August 29, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::::You misunderstand, the 50-25x times multiplier was WITH Kurama's chakra without it being suppressed, not without it and Naruto's being suppressed. It's not like Naruto's own is 100 times more than Kakashi's, that's hardly believable. I know you are his fan, but even he has his limits. But you are right, there are two ways to interpret what we were told about Naruto's chakra levels. I doubt the majority is gonna agree with you tho. Anyway, Hash's article has been locked, current edit is okay and that's it for now.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:16, August 29, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::From other translations, some point to Naruto having 100 times as much chakra as Kakashi does without suppressing Kurama. And how isn't it believable, he's the main character and has been lauded over and over and over again for his huge chakra capacity. Naruto and Hashirama having the same amount of chakra seems to be the best case, I'd think.--[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 23:30, August 29, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::::Well, it's a matter of interpretation. But that's derailing a bit, if you feel like it, bring it up on Naruto's talkpage, should do for some interesting "discussion" --[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 09:55, August 30, 2013 (UTC)
   
hey,i was wondering if we can put a list of beings(or things) that were made/partially made up of Hashirama's cells like zetsu(white,still not sure about black), the TOBI android, the living clone. and obito?--[[User:Saeyatachi|Saeyatachi]] ([[User talk:Saeyatachi|talk]]) 07:09, September 26, 2012 (UTC)Saeyatachi
+
Sorry for the late reply, I was waiting for Viz translation. Here
:Since those are not really relatives, those are best left mentioned in the legacy section. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 22:19, September 26, 2012 (UTC)
+
http://store1.up-00.com/Aug13/08k41863.jpg
  +
Hashi was talking about the chakra that Naruto HAD SHARED, as he said
  +
"I can't believe he '''HAD SHARED''' his chakra with every other shinobi, '''He''''s Got almost as much chakra as I" then he said "No! actually '''THIS''' has Nine tails chakra mixed in". From what I understood he meant the SHARED chakra
  +
by saying "THIS" Also, I asked the Translator, and he also thinks that [ಠ_ಠ no links] --{{unsigned|Rex-05}}
  +
:I believe the issue has already been resolved. The article notes: "During the Fourth Shinobi World War after seeing Naruto distribute chakra to the entire Alliance, Hashirama's clone noted that the volume was on as impressive a level as his own." What people want to believe outside of that, is of no concern to us.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 18:16, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
   
okay, i guess so..--[[User:Saeyatachi|Saeyatachi]] ([[User talk:Saeyatachi|talk]]) 00:19, September 27, 2012 (UTC)Saeyatachi
+
I see, I did not know that. Sorry, and thank you. ^_^ [[User:Rex-05|Rex-05]] ([[User talk:Rex-05|talk]]) 18:39, September 2, 2013 (UTC)rex-05
   
== Controlling Nine-tailes? ==
+
== Death ==
   
Guys, who put that idiotic statement in Hashirama's legacy section, I will remove it in 3 mins for sure. Where the hell was it mentioned that Danzou controlled [[Kurama]]?[[User:Undominanthybrid|Undominanthybrid]] ([[User talk:Undominanthybrid|talk]]) 18:48, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
+
Was it ever mentioned how he died specifically? I know it was in war that he died... but who the hell managed to kill HIM. Madara, Izuna and Tobirama were the only ones that were near his level around his time as we know it, and all of them would not have been a factor here... [[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] ([[User talk:ItachiWasAHero|talk]]) 07:31, September 10, 2013 (UTC)
:Chapter 478 page 16. I'd also thank you not to level threats against the information in the articles.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 12:48, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
+
:No, it wasn't mentioned. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 19:18, September 10, 2013 (UTC)
   
== Zetsus? ==
+
== Sensor ==
   
Should [[Zetsu]] and [[Swirl Zetsu]] or even [[Hashirama's Living Clone]] be added to the family of Hashirama? [[User:Zelwolf|Zelwolf]] ([[User talk:Zelwolf|talk]]) 14:33, October 17, 2012 (UTC)Zelwolf
+
I don't think Hashirama has sensor skills, for two reasons:<br />
:How are they related?--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 15:40, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
+
First of all, it's unlikely just because his brother is a sensor. That might just be a personal view, but I think it would be weird if those two have the same skills, even if it's just one.<br />
They all have Hashirama's DNA. [[Zetsu]] and [[Swirl Zetsu]] all have Hashirama as a family source, so why not add it to Hashirama page its self? [[User:Zelwolf|Zelwolf]] ([[User talk:Zelwolf|talk]]) 20:00, October 17, 2012 (UTC)Zelwolf
+
The other, more important reason is what Tobirama says. As you might know, there's no need for a "you" if it's clear who's adressed. While this ain't a problem for Japanese people, it can be quite the problem for us.<br />
  +
Tobirama says the following: "On father's orders I stalked you all the time... when it comes to perception, I've the best". He does't say if he's better than his brother, just that his own are really good. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 18:32, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:O . O, Should we remove based off ambiguity??? [[File: Senju_Symbol.svg|20px]]'''KotoSenju''' ''('''OldUser:'''JaZZBaND)''-[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|Contributions]] 18:40, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::It should not have been added because of ambiguity... [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 18:43, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::There's the matter of him knowing how Orochimaru was subduing him, and most recently sensing Naruto and Kurama's chakra last chapter.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 18:50, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::::Doesn't all Edo Tensei feel the chakra of who controls them? Also, Chakra can be felt by anyone if it's strong enough. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 18:57, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::::::Lawx that was an incomplete statement: he knew that Orochimaru was using his DNA to suppress Tobirama.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 19:03, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::::::Maybe he knew it because he know that his DNA is capable of doing it since it was his brother who invented the Edo Tensei? [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 19:13, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
   
EDIT:Excuse me, sorry I miss read the Info Box. They have [[Hashirama's Living Clone]] as a family source, not [[Hashirama Senju]] him self. Feel free to delete this if you would like. [[User:Zelwolf|Zelwolf]] ([[User talk:Zelwolf|talk]]) 20:03, October 17, 2012 (UTC)Zelwolf
+
Not to mention Madara is a sensor. The sensors fighting against each other would be weird, no stealth--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:05, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:Madara is a sensor? [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 21:19, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::He could sense Hashirama coming--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:31, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::Again, strong chakra can be sensed by everyone. "Kanchi"-ing is much more than that. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 21:41, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::::What about the occurrence when they were children and while he used to piss and all froze up with someone nearby, noting himself as sensitive?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:13, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::::Your pitiful trolling is naught before Seelentau. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 22:18, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
  +
Strong chakra is only sensed by 'everyone' when its in use. Hashi wasn't using his chakra when he was traveling from the leaf to the battlefield, therefore, Madara is a sensor. Just thought I should clarify that. As for Hashi, I do agree its a bit vague. [[User:MangekyoSasuke|MangekyoSasuke]] ([[User talk:MangekyoSasuke|talk]]) 22:29, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
   
== Wood Dragon ==
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Yes, powerful chakra can be sense by everyone when being molded and used, BUT on the way to the battlefield The 4 Edo Kage were not using or molding chakra as we know it, so indeed anyone who sensed them, ANYONE I SAY even Naruto.. are sensor types, Kakashi and Minato are also Sensor types although Kakashi is not that great at it, he had to touch the ground to use it. Obito is also a sensor type, as he found Taka on their way to hidden cloud, Minato and Kushina while they were in a barrier (just like Nagato found Kabuto) and Minato when he was on the Kage face monument and then when Minato warped to his safehouse to save himself from Kamui [[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] ([[User talk:ItachiWasAHero|talk]]) 01:16, October 3, 2013 (UTC)
   
Why isn't hashirama listed as a user of the wood dragon technique ?--[[User:Naruto6paths|Naruto6paths]] ([[User talk:Naruto6paths|talk]]) 15:29, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
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== Wipe? ==
:He is.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 15:38, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
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Hey, so the page was wiped? I don't know if it's just for me, but noting is showing up under Hashirama. Was it a troll editor? [[User:Zelwolf|Zelwolf]] ([[User talk:Zelwolf|talk]]) 05:26, October 5, 2013 (UTC)Zelwolf
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:No, its fine.''' ~ [[User:UltimateSupreme|<span style="color:blue;">Ultimate</span>]][[User talk:UltimateSupreme|<span style="color:#EE2C2C;">Supreme</span>]]''' 06:10, October 5, 2013 (UTC)
   
It isn't listed on his main page I mean.--[[User:Naruto6paths|Naruto6paths]] ([[User talk:Naruto6paths|talk]]) 15:42, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
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== Sources worth mentioning? ==
:Infoboxes take a while to poll information from new articles since the 1.19 update. The fact the article was needlessly moved twice doesn't help either. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 22:18, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
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I hope someone will add sources to each characters backstory, appearances, abilities, and personalities because there are tons of characters including but not limited to Hashirama Senju, eventually; because I am clearly not very good at doing so.--[[User:JustaNobody|JustaNobody]] ([[User talk:JustaNobody|talk]]) 02:40, October 15, 2013 (UTC)
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:To what are you referring? --[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 06:58, October 15, 2013 (UTC)
   
== Should we remove part about the contract seal now? ==
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== Tattoo? ==
   
Because currently the contract seal is listed as the reason he was able to stop Kurama during his fight against Madara.
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Just re-reading some old chapters and noticed a tattoo on Hashi's inner right arm. Chapter 625 pg 5-6 when he's about to stab himself. [[User:Arrancar79|Arrancar79]] ([[User talk:Arrancar79|talk]]) 16:14, February 9, 2014 (UTC)
   
But that source is non-canon and has been proven false Madara stated that it was Hashirama's wood dragon and not a contract seal that took control of Kurama from Madara.
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Crap nevermind, on second look it's a clasp for his cuff. [[User:Arrancar79|Arrancar79]] ([[User talk:Arrancar79|talk]]) 16:16, February 9, 2014 (UTC)
   
--[[User:Thdyingbreed|Thdyingbreed]] ([[User talk:Thdyingbreed|talk]]) 21:12, October 25, 2012 (UTC)
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== New infobox pic? ==
   
It's anime-only, isn't it? That automatically makes it non-canon--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 02:21, October 26, 2012 (UTC)
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In the latest episode we got the start of Hashirama and Madara's flashback, so maybe we could update his infobox image to [[:File:Hashirama.png |this]]? --[[User:Chrillbill|Chrillbill]] ([[User talk:Chrillbill|talk]]) 12:48, June 19, 2014 (UTC)
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:{{Oppose}} The current one is quite fine to me. —[[User:Shakhmoot|<font color="blue">'''Shakhmoot'''</font>]] [[File:Nadeshiko Village Symbol.svg|20px]] [[User talk:Shakhmoot|<sub>(Talk)</sub>]] 12:52, June 19, 2014 (UTC)
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:: I think the newer one is better in terms of quality and because it's also newer in terms of animation and he looks more like he does in the manga I think, but oh well if people prefer the old one I can't really do much about it. --[[User:Chrillbill|Chrillbill]] ([[User talk:Chrillbill|talk]]) 12:58, June 19, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Either current or proposal are good to me. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 13:51, June 19, 2014 (UTC)
   
It's not even from the anime technically it was just animation made for a video game so no it's not canon.
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=== How about now? ===
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Hoe about using [[:File:Hashirama Senju2.png | this]] from the latest episode? It shows more of him, and has a better light, even though he is in a more casual outfit. --[[User:Kasan94|<font color="#3B0B0B">'''Kasan94'''</font>]] [[File:Nara Symbol.svg|20px]] <sub>[[User_talk:Kasan94|''Talkpage'']]</sub> 12:37, July 24, 2014 (UTC)
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:Red armored Hashirama is far more iconic of the character. Just sayin.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 12:54, July 24, 2014 (UTC)
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:: Yeah guess you are right, was hoping to get one in this episode with the armor on as well --[[User:Kasan94|<font color="#3B0B0B">'''Kasan94'''</font>]] [[File:Nara Symbol.svg|20px]] <sub>[[User_talk:Kasan94|''Talkpage'']]</sub> 19:58, July 24, 2014 (UTC)
   
--[[User:Thdyingbreed|Thdyingbreed]] ([[User talk:Thdyingbreed|talk]]) 02:32, October 27, 2012 (UTC)
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== Yin Release ==
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According to the databook, Hashirama does not possess Yin Release. [[User:Pesa123456789|Pesa123456789]] ([[User talk:Pesa123456789|talk]]) 16:04, November 12, 2014 (UTC)
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:Yet, he used genjutsu--[[User:Elveonora|'''Elve''']] {{Mod}} <sup><small>[[User talk:Elveonora|Talk Page]]|[[Special:Contributions/Elveonora|Contribs]]</small></sup> 18:21, November 12, 2014 (UTC)
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::Are all genjutsu Yin Release? • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 18:28, November 12, 2014 (UTC)
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:::According to Gengetsi Hozuki, they all are. I looked at most of the genjustu techs, and they're all classified as Yin Release techs. Don't know if that's enough proof to validate Hashiram being listed though.--[[User:Minamoto15|Minamoto15]] ([[User talk:Minamoto15|talk]]) 18:40, November 12, 2014 (UTC)
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::::@Seel, didn't you say that the databook states they are?--[[User:Elveonora|'''Elve''']] {{Mod}} <sup><small>[[User talk:Elveonora|Talk Page]]|[[Special:Contributions/Elveonora|Contribs]]</small></sup> 20:55, November 12, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::I didn't translate that part, Suzakun did. Don't know, ask him. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 21:10, November 12, 2014 (UTC)
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Yeah, he says so. Genjutsu are Yin Release conceptually.--[[User:Elveonora|'''Elve''']] {{Mod}} <sup><small>[[User talk:Elveonora|Talk Page]]|[[Special:Contributions/Elveonora|Contribs]]</small></sup> 11:42, November 13, 2014 (UTC)
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:So then the DB didn't specify he had Yin Release, therefore the reference is wrong. I'll fix that in the article.[[User:NoJutsu|NoJutsu]] ([[User talk:NoJutsu|talk]]) 10:02, November 16, 2014 (UTC)
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::Two conflicting statements in the databook then. All genjutsu are Yin Release, yet Hashirama isn't classified as a Yin Release user.--[[File:Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna.svg|15px]] [[User:JOA20|'''JOA''']][[User talk:JOA20|''20'']] 11:37, November 16, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Obviously its a mistake, just like when it said Choji only had fire nature but we've seen him use a earth release jutsu. --[[User:Sarutobii2|Sarutobii2]] ([[User talk:Sarutobii2|talk]]) 11:48, November 16, 2014 (UTC)
   
Neither anime additions/fillers are canon, it was animated thus anime content. No reason to point out the obvious for people--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 01:17, October 28, 2012 (UTC)
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I agree with the first guy, the Databook says he does not have it, so he does not have it. It really is that simple. I don't know
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why do people think Kishi does not know what Hashirama has! Strange, oh well.. {{Unsigned|Rex-05}}
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:And Choji used Earth Release in the manga, yet the book doesn't list him. It's not flawless--[[User:Elveonora|'''Elve''']] {{Mod}} <sup><small>[[User talk:Elveonora|Talk Page]]|[[Special:Contributions/Elveonora|Contribs]]</small></sup> 20:48, November 20, 2014 (UTC)
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::Hashirama used a genjutsu. Genjutsu falls under the category of Yin Release. Therefore, Hashirama has Yin Release. Simple concept really....--[[User:Minamoto15|Minamoto15]] ([[User talk:Minamoto15|talk]]) 20:51, November 20, 2014 (UTC)
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:::The problem seems to be the "''All genjutsu are Yin Release''" part.--[[File:Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna.svg|15px]] [[User:JOA20|'''JOA''']][[User talk:JOA20|''20'']] 21:04, November 20, 2014 (UTC)
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::::I believe that was based on what Gengetsu Hozuki said in the manga. Not entirely sure the DB says on this issue. But why is it a "problem" though? Do you believe it to be so, or just one of the many theories that have been formed? Haha--[[User:Minamoto15|Minamoto15]] ([[User talk:Minamoto15|talk]]) 21:28, November 20, 2014 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 21:28, November 20, 2014

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plotholes and errors? Edit

I remember ShounenSuki sensei stating that Tsunade was born after Hashirama's death, this also makes sense. Konoha exists 65 years, Tsunade is 54, let's say she was 4 during Hashi's gambling flashback. Unless he wears TONS OF MAKEUP, that dude should look, well... quite older. But that's the first part of the problem... He clashed with Madara 80 years prior for the first time, let's say he was circa 18 at the time. If he didn't die, he would have been at least (give or take) 100 years old now, but we settle on 98. Now, 98-50=48... so you want to tell me, Hashirama died as 48 years old but is still damn handsome? Remember the anime-only picture with him and "Mito" holding Tsunade, that was agreed upon not to be canon? Well, brace yourself, cause it's not that farfetched now O_O Talk about eternal youth, but then happy Mito, poor Hashi T_T Kudos to the animation team ^_

The second part of the problem is, that he was circa 34 during the founding of Konoha, Tsunade has been born when he was 44. But Tobirama was already Hokage 5 years after the founding. Why did he give up so early on his Kage position and bothered to die 9-10 years later? (Note: Tobirama becoming Hokage before Hashirama's death is confirmed by a databook, but so short reign?) Unless that damn bully Tobirama kicked his butt for Madara incident and took his Kage hat by force ;D That also makes you wonder why he didn't participate in the 1st SWW, unless Tobirama died before Hashirama, yeah, I'm sure Hashi was already dead as of the war, but then again, the Tsunade gambling couldn't happen and Suki sensei is right, thus Kishi screwed up.--Elveonora (talk) 16:34, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

Well since the Obito reveal, things confirmed in the databooks are getting more and more screwed over. Though the inconsistency I noticed was Suigetsu kept referring to Hashirama as the God of Shinobi, wasn't that Hiruzen's title? Also it's not that far fetched that Hashirama would look good for his age. as a ninja he likely exercises often, he doesn't seem to be a smoker like Hiruzen and most of all, if the Uzumaki have longevity just being related to the Senju and his Granddaughter uses medical techniques to look about 30, I don't see how a guy who can literally sprout life from every pore can't look ten years younger than he should be at the founding of Konoha. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 17:27, February 5, 2013 (UTC)


Dont you think you're looking perhaps a little too deeply into this ? I'm sure Kishimoto will go into the early days of Konaha soon. Hashi has only just come into play, chill out and see where it goes :) --Keep Calm And Call Kakashi (talk) 17:32, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

Ummm, yeah, gonna have to agree with Kakashi on this one. There are even manga panels showing Hashirama holding a young Tsunade years before this chapter came out. Nothing was skewered here. It doesn't matter if him giving his title up doesn't make sense to you. That's obviously what he did. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 18:45, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

@Hawk, then his youthful appearance should be noted. @@Kakashi&Fox, so Tobirama barely seen Tsunade but Hashirama outlived him to gamble with her? Sure, why not. Also can you provide those manga panels? I remember Suki stating it was an anime mistake as she was born afterwards--Elveonora (talk) 18:58, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

Im going to make my point again and say before we discuss this further we should wait for Kishimoto to elaborate on the story. The guy isnt an idiot and there have been lots of so called plot "loopholes" which have turned out to be plot twists or explained. --Keep Calm And Call Kakashi (talk) 19:02, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

Not really, look at Zabuza, Anko, Asuma, Hayate, Ibiki and some other characters. Their ages and events contradict the official timeline (dates from manga and databooks) I just find it weird that Hashi looks so young despite being pretty much a grandpa and him outliving Tobirama and that he didn't participate in the war he had caused. Also Tobirama wouldn't declare Hiruzen a Hokage with Hashirama still alive I guess--Elveonora (talk) 19:16, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

With the age looking thing we can safely assume he pulled the same thing as Tsunade. With the rest bear in mind that the Senju had incredible amounts of Life force (Yang chakra) therefore we can assume they live for a hell of a long time. Look at the Third Hokage he was incredibly powerful at the age of 67 and he wasn't even Senju!--Keep Calm And Call Kakashi (talk) 19:26, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

Remember the Senjū are related to the Uzumaki, and the Uzumaki have powerful life forces and vitality. Besides, this is a Manga, it's not gonna follow real world logic. Also just because they were different ages doesn't mean they can't be in Chūnin Selection Exams together, look at Team Guy they were in the Chūnin Exams together and they were a year apart, and there were even 20 something yr olds in those same Chūnin Examinations. Kakashi awas a graduated the academy by 6 and became a Jōnin by 13, ageis very wierd in Naruto.71.71.58.231 (talk) 19:30, February 5, 2013 (UTC) Yomiko-chan

I don't think Yang chakra was ever stated to be Life Force, also Hiruzen died at 69. Hashi's appearance isn't THAT much of a problem, but still important and (can't recall the damn word now... strange) to be noted. The problem lies especially with him holding Tsunade and time of death @Yomiko, that is being taken into consideration, and no, Kakashi became Jounin at 9--Elveonora (talk) 19:34, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

@Elveonora: Yes, life force is essentially yang chakra I refer back to when Naruto's nine tails form makes Yamato's wood grow (LOL) the nine tails only has yang chakra due to Minato's sealing. I think the subtext is that the Senju inherited the sage of 6 paths life force (yang) and the Uchiha inherited his spiritual energy (yin) thats why they inherently can pull some bad ass genjutsu. Now that's cleared up, yes I understand that it may all seem a bit hazy but before we start making wild assumptions about our beloved Hashi we should wait a couple of chapters and return to this argument if nothing is revealed :) --Keep Calm And Call Kakashi (talk) 19:42, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

Well, the only arguments present are offtopic and unrelated to this issue, so in short, all we need is the promised manga shot of Hashi holding Tsunade, and if it doesn't exist (which I think) then a source for Suki's statement. If it was just his assumption, then it should be investigated further, but if there's canonical proof behind the statement of her being born after his death, then I think it's pretty much justified to list as an error in trivia or elsewhere.--Elveonora (talk) 19:51, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

Wow, 9? That really is crazy.71.71.58.231 (talk) 19:56, February 5, 2013 (UTC) Yomiko-chan

Kakashi became a Jonin at 13. Otherwise we are gonna need to make some changes to his article. Why are people saying Hashi outlived Tobi? Is it because he wasn't confused about Hiruzen being Hokage? Lets not forget he saw the dude in his old age in Sand-Sound Invasion and we don't know if Hashi and Tobirama had discussed together the Hokage succession before dying off officially way back then, finally giving the title with the Kinkaku Force incident.Umishiru (talk) 19:59, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

Nobody said anything about Tobi confusion or the gold and silver brothers. --Keep Calm And Call Kakashi (talk) 20:02, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

Changes done, please now stay on topic, we can take this elsewhere. EDIT: sorry for not answering your question, because Tobirama barely lived to see 2 years old Tsunade while Hashirama did long enough to "spoil her and teach her gambling" not to mention he isn't known to have participated in the 1st Shinobi World War and also the Hiruzen promotion reason, everything is stated above--Elveonora (talk) 20:05, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

I was on topic. You guys are the ones who briefly brought up Kakashi's Jonin promotion age with you using another users name in an attempt to rubber stamp your opinion. I wonder if you actually read my post as it is responding to points brought up in the discussion. Since this is how I am being treated, I'll leave the discussion.Umishiru (talk) 20:07, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

@Umishiru you remind me of the Uchiha you know being discriminated against and all ..... --Keep Calm And Call Kakashi (talk) 20:11, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

I wanted to open a discussion on this, but okay, you guys were faster. So, first of all, Kakashi was 9 years old when he became Jōnin. I think we've discussed this enough. This said, Hashirama meeting Tsunade is impossible:

48-45 years prior to Naruto's birth: Konohagakure was founded
48-43 years: Hashirama dies after the village just bloomed, but gives Tobirama the Hokage title
43 years: Tobirama founds the police
38 years: Tsunade is born

See? It was said that Hashirama died not short after the village was established, but not before he gave his title to Tobirama, who then founded the police. Tsunade could've never met him. Seelentau 愛 16:38, February 6, 2013 (UTC)

@Seelentau. Where has the date of the founding of the village been stated ?. --Keep Calm And Call Kakashi (talk) 18:24, February 6, 2013 (UTC)

Databook I, p. 116-117 and fanbook I, p. 18 and 53 (in the Japanese version, the German pages differ) say the founding of Konoha was ~60 years ago. 60-12=48. So the founding happened ~48 years ago, maybe earlier, because fanbook 2 still says 60 years, even though three or four years have passed. Seelentau 愛 18:41, February 6, 2013 (UTC)

I think this may be wrong as there a few scenes where Hiruzen Sarutobi is a young boy stood next to both Hokages. He looked around 8 at the time so I would reckon the village is older. However if you get bogged down in all these details it does ruin the experience when watching/reading Naruto.--Keep Calm And Call Kakashi (talk) 19:05, February 6, 2013 (UTC)

Tobirama wears the forehead protector on that picture, meaning Konohagakure existed already. Seelentau 愛 19:28, February 6, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for support Seelentau ^_ talk about time paradox o_o Really, when bully Tobirama died, Tsunade was circa 2 years old, Hashirama surely died before Tobirama, unless he taught a fetus gambling habits or something. At the time Hiruzen became Tsunade's teacher, he was 24 years old and the Kinkaku Force stuff happened circa 4-5 years earlier. We know Hashi passed on his hat to Tobirama before dying, but surely not almost 10 years before, not to mention I wouldn't say a decade is "shortly" thus it's an error, not to mention as I said, if he was still alive, he would have fought in the war and took his hat back after his brother's death. I know Kishimoto is just a human, but sometimes it appears fans pay more attention to things than he does. It seems like the gambling stuff was just a random idea from nowhere to make a joke about Tsunade and portray him as "Narutoish" an idiot I mean; --Elveonora (talk) 20:48, February 6, 2013 (UTC)

This is all good, but it isn't an "error", it is a plothole created from previous information given, but what is the point of this discussion when there's nothing we can do about it? I mean, sure you guys can hope dates change or what not, but this is as futile as saying that Kakashi's classmates shouldn't have been his classmates. We need to understand that Kishimoto isn't perfect and this isn't a history lesson so stuff like this will always happen.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 20:58, February 6, 2013 (UTC)

I like history lessons and I'm a nerd ._. anyways, as you may guess, I'd like it to be noted in trivia. Something simple like "he died before Tsunade's birth, so couldn't have spoiled her" should do--Elveonora (talk) 21:08, February 6, 2013 (UTC)

But in the chapter he said he did it. You see what I mean, there is no "he could never have done it".--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 21:13, February 6, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it's manga contradicting databooks, not manga contradicting earlier manga chapters, but it's written by the same dude, or not? I doesn't matter that the general fandom doesn't know nor care, but we are wiki editors and should note details I think--Elveonora (talk) 21:26, February 6, 2013 (UTC)

Yes but you're confusing fandom following details compared to an actual story writer. At best, the only that can be done is a mention of it the same way we did for the Kakashi classmate info.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 21:33, February 6, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, my intention all along isn't to criticize him (even if I sound unfair when talking about Kishi sometimes) but to point inconsistencies in his work. Stating someone mistaken isn't rude, I think, it's pointing out facts, not someone's flaws--Elveonora (talk) 21:49, February 6, 2013 (UTC)

I actually thought the fanbooks and databooks were written by someone else? Just with his over sight? Is that wrong then? —This unsigned comment was made by 208.124.127.74 (talkcontribs) .

Kishimoto is credited as the author of those books. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:18, February 22, 2013 (UTC)

68-60=8 so Hiruzen was 8 when Konoha was founded and most likely was being mentored by Tobirama and Hashirama shortly after that. Hiruzen was 18 at Tsunades Birth and 24 when he became her Jonin sensei. Hashi was alive with Tsunade at least until Tsunade was 3-4 and Hiruzen was 21-22, then he died and Tobirama was Hokage. Now we know you have to be a Jonin to get assigned a team and Tsunade and her team became Genin at 6... so right when they became Genin Hiruzen was still Jonin which means he was not Hokage until at least somewhere in his 24th year of life, don't assume the photo of them with Hiruzen when he had his facial hair was when they were 6.. we don't know how long the were Genin. So therefor Tobirama died at the latest when Hiruzen was 23 and Tsunade was 5. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 03:48, June 8, 2013 (UTC)

and again, if we disregard chapter 599 then Kakashi would be a Jonin at 9, but if we include chapter 599 then he was a 11 year old Jonin. So stop going around stating it a fact Elve, not until databook 4 comes out will we know which way it goes ItachiWasAHero (talk) 03:50, June 8, 2013 (UTC)

And another thing, the ages for Hashi and Tobirama were never given, so stop assuming. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 04:01, June 8, 2013 (UTC)

What's your point? Nothing you wrote is anything new. Also nowhere it's said that a Kage can't teach a team.--Elveonora (talk) 13:01, June 8, 2013 (UTC)

Your smart ass replies are not needed around here. Yes it is true that it isn't stated they can't have a team. But being confound to an office to do paper work all the time, and going to meetings and what not.. I severely doubt any Kages would have a whole team. It has been shown that a Kage can mentor a single student such as Hiruzen with Hashi/Tobirama, Deidara with Onoki, Gaara with his Father and etc.. but it was NEVER proven any actual Kages have taken on any teams for themselves. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 02:51, June 9, 2013 (UTC)

Except Tobirama did have a team, Deidara never trained under Onoki and Gaara was never trained by his father; in fact his father spent like what, close to a decade trying to kill him.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 06:31, June 9, 2013 (UTC)

Smart ass replies? You really should check out some professional help for your own sake. It was not "smart ass" I just didn't get your point at all. Also to clarify now that we are at it:

  • As Ultimate said, Team Tobirama. Hiruzen was officially Tobirama's student. Hashirama also trained him, but in a similar manner to Jiraiya taking care of Naruto.
  • I believe it has been stated somewhere that Ohnoki was Deidara's sensei, but I remember people having troubles finding reference or something?
  • In the anime at least, Gaara said his father taught him many forbidden techniques. But that's not student-teacher/jounin commander-genin team relationship. Baki was his sensei.
  • Re-checking your post again, is your point an attempt on speculation to prove a point on Hiruzen being possibly younger despite looking older when teaching to-be Sannin and when looking younger (when Tobirama died) him being in fact older?

Congratulations for your lack of logic, people usually age over time, not get better looking.--Elveonora (talk) 12:59, June 9, 2013 (UTC)

I said don't assume the pictures of him with the Genin Sannins with brown facial hair was when he was 24, we don't know how long they were Genin.. Itachi basically looks the same at 21 that he did at 13. So don't assume they were kids or teens in the chapter that Saru was made Kage and Tobirama sacrificed himself for them. Also Deidara looks 15.... but he is 19. Yagura was an adult... but looks 12-13. Roshi was an old man, but looked 40 max. They were small and adults. Your assumptions and presumptions don't hold any ground here. At all. 96.241.55.117 (talk) 03:42, June 10, 2013 (UTC)


Error? Edit

Wait, if Hashirama was able to break the binding of theimpure world resurrection so easily this time, why didn't he do it the first time he was resurrected!?!?!?!?--72.135.19.126 (talk) 03:53, February 14, 2013 (UTC)

That um..... that's a pretty good point.71.71.58.231 (talk) 04:05, February 14, 2013 (UTC) Yomiko-chan

Difference in if they had the controlling tags in them or not. Naito Kiyami (talk) 06:05, February 14, 2013 (UTC)

They weren't resurrected with their full power during the first time (Chapter 620, Pg12).--~ UltimateSupreme 06:08, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
That makes sense, cos no matter how strong Hiru was, he shouldn't have been able to beat Hashi and Tobi together. 87.254.80.51 (talk) 23:03, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Hashirama's Cells Edit

Recently, my edits of Hashirama's unique abilities were deleted; saying that it was made up. But if you recall, it was clearly said that Hashirama's cells alone gave various individuals one kind of enhancement or another. Saying its made up is like saying Hashirama had no power of his own, only people who took his cells. Furthermore, Hashirama was stated to represent one half of the Six Path Sage's power; namely his physical body and life force. That being said, please allow me to restore my edit.Steveo920, 1:48, February 14, 2013

When was all that you wrote, shown?--~ UltimateSupreme 06:57, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
Again, it was stated that various characters enhanced themselves through Hashirama's cells to gain even a portion of his powers. Yamato and Danzo gained the Wood Release purely through Hashirama's cells, Madara extended his life through the cells, and Obito gained regenerative powers through Hashirama's cells. Steveo920, 2:57, February 14, 2013

Rashomon Gates. Edit

As we've in this chapter 621, our beloved First Hokage can use the Rashomon Gates, in his case, the largest version seen so far. Now for the key question...can he use the lesser versions of it? I believe so...if he can bring out five, more than likely he can bring out three or even just one. Opinions and thoughts are appreciated. Darksusanoo (talk) 13:22, February 20, 2013 (UTC)

Logically. One who can use 1000 clones can also do 1 clone--Elveonora (talk) 13:33, February 20, 2013 (UTC)

@TheUltimate3, we list Oro as a user of Summoning: Rashōmon as well, so why shouldn't we list Hashi as a user of three and one gates respectively?--Elveonora (talk) 13:47, February 20, 2013 (UTC)

Because I didn't know Orochimaru used the One Gate.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 13:50, February 20, 2013 (UTC)

He actually didn't, I think(at least I don't recall it). He is being listed for the same reasons as users of Multiple Shadow Clone Technique automatically get it's lesser form, nope?--Elveonora (talk) 13:57, February 20, 2013 (UTC)

Pretty much yeah. Darksusanoo (talk) 13:59, February 20, 2013 (UTC)
I thought orochimaru is listened because Sakon said something like "this technique which originally belongs to orochimaru-sama...." after he used it with his brother.87.188.251.131 (talk) 18:59, February 20, 2013 (UTC)

Shouldn't it be edited to show that Hashirama summoned 5 gates instead of three?--JUP173R (talk) 20:13, February 20, 2013 (UTC)

It is edited...sometimes recently created techniques take time to show up on character infoboxes. Darksusanoo (talk) 20:26, February 20, 2013 (UTC)
Ok I would like to ask some of the sempai's to pay attention to this discussion, as we need consensus. Darksusanoo (talk) 23:10, February 20, 2013 (UTC)
Orochimaru is listed as using just one gate because as far as I recall, Sakon mentioned Orochimary having thought it to him, or something along those lines. He gave Oro credit for using it. Now, on whether Hashirama can use one or three gates, this is the very same discussion I had with another user regarding Madara, Fire Release: Dragon Flame Release Song Technique and Fire Release: Great Dragon Fire Technique. I was for listing Madara as a user of both techniques, since DFRS is simply put five GDFs fired at once. The point was raised that chronologically, DFRS came first, so it's within the realm of possibility of that being the original conceptualised technique, with GDF being developed later as a lesser form of the technique. I personally don't like it, as I believe the clone example someone used above to explain it perfectly, but I find the reasoning used valid enough to live with, so until someone says that the basic version is the original technique, and the advanced one is the derived one, I think they can be listed as related. At the moment, Madara is listed as using DFRS, that technique is listed as parent to GDF, which Madara is not listed as a user of. In a less canon example, Eight Trigrams Thirty Two Palms is derived from Sixty Four Palms, but it's a lesser version of it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:34, February 20, 2013 (UTC)

God of Shinobi Edit

Why does the page refer to Hashirama by this title?, I don't recall anyone calling him it at any point. TricksterKing (talk) 05:32, February 22, 2013 (UTC)

Suigetsu did like two chapters ago.--Yomiko-chan (talk) 05:35, February 22, 2013 (UTC)

Dunno how I missed that. TricksterKing (talk) 05:37, February 22, 2013 (UTC)

Just an ability-wise question, should not It be worth mentioning that he might be strongest member that the Senju clan has ever produced, and that Hashirama emerged unharmed after everyone of his battles with Madara Uchiha, including their final battle?--JustaNobody (talk) 21:17, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

Unless it's been stated that he is the strongest ever senju, we won't add it. Him surviving all his battles with Madara is already stated and unless it's said that he didn't get hurt at all, it's speculation to say he was unharmed during the fights with Madara, also not really worth mentioning since he is already mentioned as the winner of all the fights. TricksterKing (talk) 22:22, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

I see, point taken and noted.--JustaNobody (talk) 22:28, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

Because I read and through the most recent chapters and I saw that he emerged unharmed from his final battle with Madara Uchiha, I do not want to spoil anything it's just that Madara struck down a Wood Release clone, in their final battle which enabled Hashirama to strike him, from behind without Madara noticing until it was too late, when shown after that, Hashirama was shown unscratched. That's all I am so very sorry for spoiling it for you.--JustaNobody (talk) 22:34, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

I think that would just be called surviving, unharmed would mean that he took no damage at all during the battle. TricksterKing (talk) 22:55, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

The thing is he did emerge unharmed with out any scratches at all, with only a missing sandal, and a slightly damaged sleeve on one side, no scratches so surely that would be worth mentioning under his abilities and powers.--JustaNobody (talk) 00:38, June 8, 2013 (UTC)

My fault it turns out he lost an entire section of sleeve and armor on one side and his one arm slightly burned, during his final battle with Madara, but otherwise no serious injuries.--JustaNobody (talk) 02:14, June 8, 2013 (UTC)

Are those last things regarding Madara and Hashirama's final battle worth mentioning under Hashirama's abilities and powers?--JustaNobody (talk) 02:29, June 8, 2013 (UTC)

I'd say they aren't worth mentioning, but you could try to put them there and see if they get reverted or not. TricksterKing (talk) 14:10, June 8, 2013 (UTC)

Speculation, Hashirama has some healing no jutsu, doesn't mean he left unharmed each time, quite the opposite, we see him all bloody in flashbacks at least once. The time before their final battle after Izuna's death, it wasn't 1v1, Tobirama and dozen other Senju were there along with Hashirama to defeat Madara and at VOTE he let himself be defeated--Elveonora (talk) 15:08, June 8, 2013 (UTC)

Family Edit

So is there a reason why his brother, Tobirama, isn't catalogued with his family? Scratch that, none of his brothers are added to the family section. Do you guys just not like the idea of Hashirama having siblings? 76.235.4.251 (talk) 07:44, March 6, 2013 (UTC)

Heavens no! Semantics take a while to bridge the relations correctly because there is now a parent in common whose article was recently renamed, the information is no longer manually listed. Please bear with us, as it updates.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 08:27, March 6, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, updates. K. Thnx for response. 76.235.4.251 (talk) 09:24, March 6, 2013 (UTC)

Kawarama isn't his brother that needs to be removed.--Anamantiumninja (talk) 02:08, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

This is already discussed at length on Kawarama's page and until it's proven false, it stays. Learn to read between the lines.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 02:42, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

No, it should be removed until proven true otherwise you just added information that isn't true because its what you think.--Anamantiumninja (talk) 10:44, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

Why wouldn't he be Hashi's bro? ~IndxcvNovelist (talk | contribs | PR | RLS) 10:56, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

He could be but they never said or called him brother. So it should be removed until proven true.--Anamantiumninja (talk) 11:03, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

Again, not going to change. It was implied that Kawarama was his brother. Apart from the fact that he looks exactly like them, when Madara spoke of his brothers, Hashirama remembered Itama and Kawarama, why would it be necessary to even bring Kawarama back into the story and at that point, if we weren't supposed to realise that he was their brother as well? --Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 12:27, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

Not to mention his name also ends with "rama"--Elveonora (talk) 12:48, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

I find this fact to be very funny. But what about Toka Senju. What's her relationship to him? Animaster334 (talk) 12:54, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

So far, she's only been mentioned to be a close confidant of Hashirama's, and his relative obviously. What does she have to do with anything? Not everything in a series is going to be thrown out into your face, and I know too much can be put into subtleties, but at first we weren't going to list him as a broher but that flashback pretty much concreted the fact that he's their brother. I mean look at them, they look like a perfect set.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 13:04, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

If people are still too dumb to think for themselves, stubborn and ignorant, perhaps we should do the same as with Konan's person of god jutsu and put up a warning up there--Elveonora (talk) 13:07, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

Still, is it a common thing that nearly all the males end with "-rama" in the Senju clan if they're males? I heard this on a forum. Animaster334 (talk) 13:11, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

Nawaki, Butsuma don't for example--Elveonora (talk) 13:13, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

@vCerez365, did you guys ever consider the fact they could be cousins. Cousins can close like brothers, my cousin is like my brother. The manga didn't concrete the fact they were brothers.--Anamantiumninja (talk) 19:00, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

The pre-Konoha male Senju end in "-ma", not "-rama". Look at the kanji for their name. The "ra" is just a coincidence between Hashirama, Tobirama and Kawarama, from the other kanji in their names. Nawaki is post-Konoha. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:14, April 12, 2013 (UTC)

Cousin is much more speculative than brother, also I doubt that his uncle was responsible for him--Elveonora (talk) 14:14, April 12, 2013 (UTC)

We don't know if Botsuma was responsible for him.--Anamantiumninja (talk) 16:34, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

At least put presumably --Anamantiumninja (talk) 23:09, April 19, 2013 (UTC)

Missing Jutsus Edit

There are some jutsus by Hashirama Senju that weren't added to his Jutsu section on his profile page :

Wood Clone Technique (Manga only) Wood Release: Wood Locking Wall (Anime only) Bringer-of-Darkness Technique (Manga only) Chakra Sensing Technique (Manga only) Contract Seal (Anime only) —This unsigned comment was made by LaRoux4Life (talkcontribs) .

Should be fixed, let me know if you see any other problems. — SimAnt 22:35, May 9, 2013 (UTC)

More Missing Jutsus & Tool Edit

I found more Jutsus by Hashirama Senju that weren't added too and here they are :

Wood Release: Wood Dragon Technique - Sage Art: Wood Release: True Several Thousand Hands - Wood Clone Technique (Manga only) - Wood Release: Advent of a World of Flowering Trees - Wood Release: Hōbi Technique

Tools :

Scroll of Seals

P.S It seems when new stuff are added to the infobox, It leads to delete the older existed stuff there because i'm pretty sure the Jutsus and tool i mentioned where already there and existed when i checked yesterday.--2.50.216.33 (talk) 08:03, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

This is a known issue; read the homepage.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 11:36, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

So umm.. Can someone add those missing jutsus to his section ?--—This unsigned comment was made by LaRoux4Life (talkcontribs) .

Let me try this again. The techniques and tools are there. The list is NOT working properly.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 12:08, May 10, 2013 (UTC)
The problem that is that every time a page with multivalued properties is saved, the values themselves alternate in being able to be returned as paramaters by the system but can still be searched by. The labels themselves are saved and that is why they all can be seen when you click the Jutsu header. — SimAnt 20:51, May 10, 2013 (UTC)
Yes, what SimAnt said, just not with fancy words like multivalalaled.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 04:39, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

THE strongest? Edit

I found a small contradiction: In the personality section Hashirama is described as "the man known as the most powerful shinobi to have ever lived". Although he is indeed one of the most powerful shinobi, he is not THE most powerful, since it has been stated that Hiruzen was the strongest of the 5 Hokage, and both of them arguably pale in comparison to the Sage of the Six Paths (does he count?). It should be written as "ONE of the most powerful shinobi to have ever lived" instead. (Xurono (talk) 04:26, May 14, 2013 (UTC))

Fixed.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 12:37, May 14, 2013 (UTC)
Can i correct Hashirama is by far the strongest as all the kage past and present are no match for madara and hashirama is the only one who can defeat madara, goes to show that he really was the strongest so strong that madara even tried to amplify his power by using hashirama's cells that shows that he wouldn't even bother with other kage only hashirama and hashirama captured all the tailed beasts something hiruzen obviously could not do --ROOT 根 (talk) 16:52, May 14, 2013 (UTC)
I still believe Hiruzen has been retconned out of being the strongest Kage, can't see him beating full-strength Hashirama even in his youth--Elveonora (talk) 16:56, May 14, 2013 (UTC)
I agree with you both, just compared him with the information already given before the war; far better to just outright admit there was a retcon it terms of strenght than just initiate a pointless argument of "BUT HE WAS OLD!", "BUT ORO´S EDO WAS RESTRAINING HIM!", etc. Just hope Kishi makes Hiruzen at least "live" up to his title as the God of Shinobi to correct this contradiction; Yet the Sage is still THE strongest. (I KNOW THIS IS NOT A FORUM) Honestly, the "fairy tale strenght" is impossible to call as such; Hiruzen knew Hashirama and his power first hand (and by extension, the Konoha elders and even Danzou), thus he had knowledge of and was able to counter most of the attacks during the fight; he didn´t learn all that of a fairy tale. Just another contradiction, yet this one is impossible to correct since it was stated in the manga, right?--(Xurono (talk) 04:12, May 15, 2013 (UTC))
It does not matter whether or not he is the strongest shinobi, the reference for the information hailed him only as the God of Shinobi, nothing more. It was edited to reflect that.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 05:05, May 15, 2013 (UTC)

Physical strength, reflexes, worth mentioning etc? Edit

Should Hashirama's speed, reflexes, and strength be mentioned under his abilities & powers be worth mentioning, as he shown himself to be capable of wielding large and heavy tools, as well as equipment without it slowing him down, and being able to strike down Madara before he even a chance to react?--JustaNobody (talk) 02:38, June 8, 2013 (UTC)

Power? Edit

Is it worth mentioning that when Hashirama was alive, he was able to stop his younger brother Tobirama from killing Madara with just a glare; under his abilities & powers?--JustaNobody (talk) 00:37, June 16, 2013 (UTC)--

Just curious, do you have some kind of disability or something? Talking about your habit of whatever that is. For the question. a glare isn't a power, it's a display of dominance and Tobirama showing him respect--Elveonora (talk) 01:02, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

No I do not have a disability, I am just being honest; plus I was asking about because it seemed like it my be important what's wrong with that?--JustaNobody (talk) 01:17, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

That's not what I was talking about, I meant you adding unnecessary spaces in front of your sentences--Elveonora (talk) 12:22, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
Information is already mentioned throughout their respective articles.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 14:31, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

How about that his power was enough to frighten his former student, Hiruzen Sarutobi; who is also renowned as the "God of Shinobi" during his lifetime and after being reincarnated alongside both his predecessors and successors?--JustaNobody (talk) 22:00, July 2, 2013 (UTC)

Unnecessary. It speaks for itself. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:18, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

Slug Sage Mode Edit

There were three places mentioned where Sage Mode could be learned: the toad mountain, snake cave and Shikkotsu (?) forrest. Chapter 635 confirms that Katsuyu is from Shikkotsu forest. It is therefore most likely Hashirama, like his granddaughter, could summon slugs and mastered Sage Mode under their tutelage.--Reliops (talk) 18:39, June 19, 2013 (UTC)

Most likely, yes. Confirmed, no. The truth is, we don't know the nature behind Hashirama's Sage Mode, nor do we know what he has the ability to summon, because its never been stated, shown, or even hinted at. We do not insert speculation into articles, no matter how likely it would seem. Therefore, until confirmed by the manga or a databook, nothing will be added to Hashirama to reflect this. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 18:59, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
First, for the 100th time, there's no such thing as "slug/toad/snake sage mode" just Sage Mode. Second, nowhere it's been mentioned that they teach it in Slug's forest too, it was stated to be just equally famous place. There's no logical reason why should the technique be unique just to the 3 species.--Elveonora (talk) 21:41, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
@Elveonora explain to me one thing. Why the incomplete Jiraya's Sage Mode looked like a frog? Why when gathering natural energy teached by the toads they turn into frog statues if they couldn't control the natural chakra? Why naruto when gathering natural chakra and entering Sage Mode gains frog-like eyes? Do you think that learning with snakes the pupil will turn into frog if couldn't control their way to gather natural energy? Of course there is such thing. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 22:40, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
Take it at to the right place.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 22:44, June 19, 2013 (UTC)

@Dan, the point being that he could be a rabbit sage for all we know, don't assume he was taught at slug bones forest (thought slugs have none by the way)--Elveonora (talk) 22:53, June 19, 2013 (UTC)

Slug i agree with you 100%, "Rabbit got me LOL xD", Snake Sage Mode i think is not the right term, but there isn't a better term to define the Sage Mode teached by frogs into Mount Myōboku, the same goes by snake. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 23:02, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
I saw beautiful pictures of Sakura in Sage mode her hair grew long, her body has a figure, and cherry-blossoms sort of came out of her hair. One in color and one in black and white. The true form of Sakura with that mode is that she has become the forces of nature b/c of that cherry-blossoms came out of her hair. B/C of her chakra control, she can mentally control things using her chakra. Someone said that her seal represents the Buddha's of the physical and spiritual energy that she'll use it to have Sage Mode. Though none of it has happen but those pics were pretty (except the one in black and white b/c in that color her eyes are scary to me). I wish those pics I seen will happen but my guess is it won't. Yeah I think Eleveonora is right we just call it Frog Snake and Slug Sage Mode by those names b/c you know its the kind of animal of the Sage Mode their in.Inoyamanaka98 (talk) 02:14, June 20, 2013 (UTC)Inoyamanaka98

hi there i could be wrong but hashirama taught the third hokage who uses monkey sage so their for it would make sense for him to be a monkey sage (monkeys look cooler in the tree then slugs) (KnightofCydonia19 (talk) 22:13, October 10, 2013 (UTC))

Byakugō no In? Edit

Ok, it may sound stupid it may not, i know that everyone asks why didn't Hashirama looks older in Tsunade's photo, and then hit me, may it be Byakugō no In? He could used it like Tsunade use the seal to look always young right? Attention, I am not saying to add Hashirama as a user, but i think that he is very probable to be. What you people think? Dan.Faulkner (talk) 23:38, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

Hashirama doesn't look old because he didn't die old. He died around the first great war after the founding of shinobi villages. Besides, no diamond mark in his head, and I'm certain he'd have loads of chakra. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:17, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
Which photo? And no, he isn't a user. For his age, I redid the math again and realized that age of consent in Japan is quite low, so it can't be estimated due to this fact. But if we go by him becoming a father at 18 and his child the same, then he would be 40 in the flashback with Tsunade at the least. So his age is immeasurable, because for all we know, he was a 26+ years old grandfather, so could be about 30 in the Tsunade flashback as well ._. we also don't know if he lived past Tsunade's 4th birthday. His gambling comment suggests that is the way he remembers her, but his comment about her strength doesn't, unless she was a super child.--Elveonora (talk) 11:15, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
Hum, Tsunade has a photo with Hashirama i think, and in that flashback he musted be much older then that, 18? god, when he founded Konohagakure how old was he? The timeline is confuse but i think he died much more older then that. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 12:12, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
If you refer to the anime-only flashback with arguably old Mito and Hashirama caressing Tsunade, then yeah, not canon. Other than that, I don't know of any "photo" and we don't know how old he was at x point in time. If we did, then we could easily calculate his age. Again, I originally forgot this is a story written by a Japanese guy, their culture is different from mine or yours. Sex in Japan is legal from 13 upwards, but an adult is a person of age 20 and older. We don't know if his "adventures" with Mito date back to his minor years or if they met after he became head of the clan.--Elveonora (talk) 12:30, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
Yes i refer the anime-only flashback. I think their "adventures" came after he became head of the clan, when the Uzumaki's made a treaty with Konoha, even if Japonese culture is different, we never saw in the anime someone dating for real at 13 years old, saying that i doubt that Hashirama was grandfather at the age of 30, i believe it could be the White Strength Seal, @Omnibender Tsunade's Seal isn't always visible or is?. And yes the photo is canon. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 12:43, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
Only time I recall Tsunade not having the seal visible is when she spends most, if not all the chakra in it, which has happened only three times: when she fought against Orochimaru in Part I, when she healed most of Konoha during Pain's Invasion, and after Strength of a Hundred drained her against Madara. Don't think the photo is canon either. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:42, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

This is a big assumption of mine, maybe... Almost for certain i am wrong, but there's a little hope that it may be Byakugō no In ^_^. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 20:33, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

We have no age for tobirama and hashirama and madara's generation, and no other way to find out except for one possible hint.. Kakuzu's age. We also know Hiruzen and Danzo were 8 years old when Konoha was founded. It was founded 60 years before part 1. Kakuzu would have been 87 in the beginning of part 1, and if you take away 60 from 87 you get 27. So it is mostly speculation but I am going to say Hashi and his generation were around that age. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 21:53, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

No Jutsu Section Edit

OK there seems to be an error in the code of this page. The infobox completely lacks a Jutsu section. Refreshing doesn't work. please fix. (Evilpuppy (talk) 03:26, June 25, 2013 (UTC))

Should be fixed soon. — SimAnt 12:55, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Unique Ability Edit

I've been meaning to bring this up for a while now, but shouldn't we add Tailed Beast Control as a Unique skill to Hashi's infobox? Ever since Obito and Madara used his cells to subdue the Jubi, it's seeming to be implied that controlling Tailed Beasts is simply another Kekkai Genkai Hashirama possesses, with him also being able to channel it through Wood Release. Also note Suki's translation of something Orochimaru said in part 2:

"I desired that power of the First Hokage, which allowed him to use Mokuton ninjutsu, unique amongst all shinobi, and what's more… which gave him the ability to manipulate the 'Bijū' at will… Kuku…" (「全忍の中で唯一 木遁忍術を使いさらに…"尾獣"を意のままに操る事が出来た初代火影の力が欲しくてね…クク…」, "Zennin no naka de yuiitsu Mokuton ninjutsu o tsukai nara ni… 'Bijū' o i no mama ni ayatsuru koto ga dekita Shodai Hokage no chikara ga hoshikute ne… Kuku…")

This, at least to me, hints at my view, since Orochimaru refers to Hashirama's power as what allowed him to use Wood Release and control Tailed Beasts, not that the former entailed the latter. Skitts (talk) 20:57, July 11, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, hash dosed freaks can also control TB, I don't think that tentacle thing counts as wood release, or does it? Also note that Hokage-Style Sixty-Year-Old Technique — Kakuan Entering Society with Bliss-Bringing Hands lacks "Wood Release" in its name, suggesting that wood no jutsu only helps to channel it better while it ain't one--Elveonora (talk) 21:01, July 11, 2013 (UTC)
Lol, it was classified as a Wood Release tech though. :-P Skitts (talk) 21:03, July 11, 2013 (UTC)

Sharingan allows for control of tailed beasts as well, do we list the Uchiha clan as having another kekkei genkai? I think this is just one of those things about a fictional setting we just have to accept. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:21, July 11, 2013 (UTC)

sensors Edit

I again forgot when and if he ever has shown any sensing--Elveonora (talk) 23:26, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

Tobirama mentions something like "I've always been better at sensing than you" during the Madara/Hashirama pre-Konoha flashbacks. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:13, July 18, 2013 (UTC)
Yes, but anyone senses to some degree or not? He hasn't noticed anyone with sensing yet. I think that alone doesn't count Omni and should be removed--Elveonora (talk) 17:17, July 18, 2013 (UTC)
He also noted that Oro was using his wood release to bind Tobirama. Everyone can sense.The same way you can possibly tell someone is watching you sometimes. Shinobi have honed senses but those things don't seem like basic sensing.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 17:40, July 18, 2013 (UTC)
So why don't we list Kimimaro as a sensor? He noted Oro's chakra in himself. Either he is one or revived zombies can sense their summoner or something--Elveonora (talk) 18:01, July 18, 2013 (UTC)
People can always detect strong chakra to some degree. Kakashi and Zabuza detected Naruto's Nine-Tails chakra during Land of Waves arc, neither are sensors. In the Forest of Death, everyone noticed Sasuke once the cursed seal kicked in, and we know those have Orochimaru's chakra. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:41, July 18, 2013 (UTC)

Deja vu Edit

Just to summarize it again. A medical ninja is a ninja with expertise in medical fields as his/her specialized profession and heals others on battlefields.

A technique which allows one to self-heal might be a medical ninjutsu, but doesn't necessarily make the user a medical-ninja. We are yet to see Hashirama tending ill and wounded in a hospital or in combat.

On top of that, medical ninja position and system was created by Tsunade, after Hashirama's time, therefore, Hashirama wasn't:

  • a medic for all we know, unless he had that as a hobby in spare time
  • a medical ninja as it didn't exist yet and he was said to could have healed his own body alone, not others'

So would anyone oppose if I removed it from his infobox?--Elveonora (talk) 15:53, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

Fixed.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 16:07, August 11, 2013 (UTC)
Just because the system was made after someone's time doesn't mean they couldn't be considered one. As for Hashirama, it was only mentioned that he could heal himself without seals, meaning he knew some form of medical ninjutsu but is not a medical ninja. I would consider him one (as of right now) as much as I would consider Hinata one for carrying around that ointment. Joshbl56 16:12, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

Hey, did it actually say that Hashirama knew medical techniques??? what if it was just regeneration? like how Obito was able to heal rather than a medical technique???--Deathmailrock (talk) 23:12, October 31, 2013 (UTC)

Because Obito was rebuilt with the trees material, infused with Hashiramas DNA. Obito wasn't flesh and blood. Big difference. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 03:46, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

Hashi's chakra Edit

"The sheer volume of his own chakra is comparable to the combined chakra of Naruto Uzumaki, Minato Namikaze, and Kurama (the Yin and Yang halves in unison), which is vast enough to support the entire Allied Shinobi Forces, further indicating his immense levels. His chakra levels also made him suitable to learn senjutsu and enter Sage Mode."

was not he talking about only Naruto's chakra that he SHARED with alliance? Also, it worth to mention that the Naruto's half of Kurama was not even at his full chakra, and that's why he asked help from the other one.

I think that statement is exaggerating too much. Rex-05 (talk) 19:38, August 29, 2013 (UTC)rex-o5

i think the reason its worded that way is because hashirama says that after tobirama explains that naruto and minato has synched their chakra through the nine tails, and seemingly acted as 1 chakra is how I understood it, maybe not. --J spencer93 (talk) 21:06, August 29, 2013 (UTC)

It's not exaggerated, it's true. The chakras of the 4 are one and the same during this bonding. This guy isn't called "god of shinobi" for nothing, simply get over it.--Elveonora (talk) 21:28, August 29, 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but Hashirama calls it Naruto's chakra not 'their chakra'. He uses a singular pronoun and compares his own chakra to that of Naruto's. That's the way it looks to me at least.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 22:38, August 29, 2013 (UTC)
We may ask Seelentau for word to word translation if it's that troublesome. Sorry for threatening you, but I was talking into deaf ears. You take "his chakra" too literary, Kurama's chakra has been credited as his many times, that's because he controls it. According to MS's translation at least, Killer B says: "it's the kyubi's chakra both light and dark" and octopus notes "it's not just the kyubi" as there's some of Minato and Naruto's too, so the edit wasn't wrong. It's stated in the manga and again Naruto doesn't have enough chakra for 40 000 people and himself--Elveonora (talk) 22:44, August 29, 2013 (UTC)
Hashirama could sense Naruto's though more prominently. He used a singular pronoun for it to directly compare himself to Naruto. And still, we had before Naruto's chakra being felt by non-sensors all the way in Konoha during chapter 616. Given how that without needing to suppress Kurama's chakra anymore made Naruto's full reserve 100 times that of Kakashi's, it shouldn't be that too far out that in terms of chakra quantity that he and Haashirama are equal.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 23:05, August 29, 2013 (UTC)
You misunderstand, the 50-25x times multiplier was WITH Kurama's chakra without it being suppressed, not without it and Naruto's being suppressed. It's not like Naruto's own is 100 times more than Kakashi's, that's hardly believable. I know you are his fan, but even he has his limits. But you are right, there are two ways to interpret what we were told about Naruto's chakra levels. I doubt the majority is gonna agree with you tho. Anyway, Hash's article has been locked, current edit is okay and that's it for now.--Elveonora (talk) 23:16, August 29, 2013 (UTC)
From other translations, some point to Naruto having 100 times as much chakra as Kakashi does without suppressing Kurama. And how isn't it believable, he's the main character and has been lauded over and over and over again for his huge chakra capacity. Naruto and Hashirama having the same amount of chakra seems to be the best case, I'd think.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 23:30, August 29, 2013 (UTC)
Well, it's a matter of interpretation. But that's derailing a bit, if you feel like it, bring it up on Naruto's talkpage, should do for some interesting "discussion" --Elveonora (talk) 09:55, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply, I was waiting for Viz translation. Here http://store1.up-00.com/Aug13/08k41863.jpg Hashi was talking about the chakra that Naruto HAD SHARED, as he said "I can't believe he HAD SHARED his chakra with every other shinobi, He's Got almost as much chakra as I" then he said "No! actually THIS has Nine tails chakra mixed in". From what I understood he meant the SHARED chakra by saying "THIS" Also, I asked the Translator, and he also thinks that [ಠ_ಠ no links] --—This unsigned comment was made by Rex-05 (talkcontribs) .

I believe the issue has already been resolved. The article notes: "During the Fourth Shinobi World War after seeing Naruto distribute chakra to the entire Alliance, Hashirama's clone noted that the volume was on as impressive a level as his own." What people want to believe outside of that, is of no concern to us.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 18:16, September 2, 2013 (UTC)

I see, I did not know that. Sorry, and thank you. ^_^ Rex-05 (talk) 18:39, September 2, 2013 (UTC)rex-05

Death Edit

Was it ever mentioned how he died specifically? I know it was in war that he died... but who the hell managed to kill HIM. Madara, Izuna and Tobirama were the only ones that were near his level around his time as we know it, and all of them would not have been a factor here... ItachiWasAHero (talk) 07:31, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

No, it wasn't mentioned. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:18, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

Sensor Edit

I don't think Hashirama has sensor skills, for two reasons:
First of all, it's unlikely just because his brother is a sensor. That might just be a personal view, but I think it would be weird if those two have the same skills, even if it's just one.
The other, more important reason is what Tobirama says. As you might know, there's no need for a "you" if it's clear who's adressed. While this ain't a problem for Japanese people, it can be quite the problem for us.
Tobirama says the following: "On father's orders I stalked you all the time... when it comes to perception, I've the best". He does't say if he's better than his brother, just that his own are really good. Seelentau 愛 18:32, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

O . O, Should we remove based off ambiguity??? Senju SymbolKotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 18:40, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
It should not have been added because of ambiguity... Seelentau 愛 18:43, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
There's the matter of him knowing how Orochimaru was subduing him, and most recently sensing Naruto and Kurama's chakra last chapter.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 18:50, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
Doesn't all Edo Tensei feel the chakra of who controls them? Also, Chakra can be felt by anyone if it's strong enough. Seelentau 愛 18:57, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
Lawx that was an incomplete statement: he knew that Orochimaru was using his DNA to suppress Tobirama.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 19:03, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
Maybe he knew it because he know that his DNA is capable of doing it since it was his brother who invented the Edo Tensei? Seelentau 愛 19:13, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

Not to mention Madara is a sensor. The sensors fighting against each other would be weird, no stealth--Elveonora (talk) 21:05, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

Madara is a sensor? Seelentau 愛 21:19, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
He could sense Hashirama coming--Elveonora (talk) 21:31, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
Again, strong chakra can be sensed by everyone. "Kanchi"-ing is much more than that. Seelentau 愛 21:41, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
What about the occurrence when they were children and while he used to piss and all froze up with someone nearby, noting himself as sensitive?--Elveonora (talk) 22:13, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
Your pitiful trolling is naught before Seelentau. Seelentau 愛 22:18, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

Strong chakra is only sensed by 'everyone' when its in use. Hashi wasn't using his chakra when he was traveling from the leaf to the battlefield, therefore, Madara is a sensor. Just thought I should clarify that. As for Hashi, I do agree its a bit vague. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 22:29, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, powerful chakra can be sense by everyone when being molded and used, BUT on the way to the battlefield The 4 Edo Kage were not using or molding chakra as we know it, so indeed anyone who sensed them, ANYONE I SAY even Naruto.. are sensor types, Kakashi and Minato are also Sensor types although Kakashi is not that great at it, he had to touch the ground to use it. Obito is also a sensor type, as he found Taka on their way to hidden cloud, Minato and Kushina while they were in a barrier (just like Nagato found Kabuto) and Minato when he was on the Kage face monument and then when Minato warped to his safehouse to save himself from Kamui ItachiWasAHero (talk) 01:16, October 3, 2013 (UTC)

Wipe? Edit

Hey, so the page was wiped? I don't know if it's just for me, but noting is showing up under Hashirama. Was it a troll editor? Zelwolf (talk) 05:26, October 5, 2013 (UTC)Zelwolf

No, its fine. ~ UltimateSupreme 06:10, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

Sources worth mentioning? Edit

I hope someone will add sources to each characters backstory, appearances, abilities, and personalities because there are tons of characters including but not limited to Hashirama Senju, eventually; because I am clearly not very good at doing so.--JustaNobody (talk) 02:40, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

To what are you referring? --Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 06:58, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

Tattoo? Edit

Just re-reading some old chapters and noticed a tattoo on Hashi's inner right arm. Chapter 625 pg 5-6 when he's about to stab himself. Arrancar79 (talk) 16:14, February 9, 2014 (UTC)

Crap nevermind, on second look it's a clasp for his cuff. Arrancar79 (talk) 16:16, February 9, 2014 (UTC)

New infobox pic? Edit

In the latest episode we got the start of Hashirama and Madara's flashback, so maybe we could update his infobox image to this? --Chrillbill (talk) 12:48, June 19, 2014 (UTC)

 Oppose — The current one is quite fine to me. —Shakhmoot Nadeshiko Village Symbol (Talk) 12:52, June 19, 2014 (UTC)
I think the newer one is better in terms of quality and because it's also newer in terms of animation and he looks more like he does in the manga I think, but oh well if people prefer the old one I can't really do much about it. --Chrillbill (talk) 12:58, June 19, 2014 (UTC)
Either current or proposal are good to me. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 13:51, June 19, 2014 (UTC)

How about now? Edit

Hoe about using this from the latest episode? It shows more of him, and has a better light, even though he is in a more casual outfit. --Kasan94 Nara Symbol Talkpage 12:37, July 24, 2014 (UTC)

Red armored Hashirama is far more iconic of the character. Just sayin.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 12:54, July 24, 2014 (UTC)
Yeah guess you are right, was hoping to get one in this episode with the armor on as well --Kasan94 Nara Symbol Talkpage 19:58, July 24, 2014 (UTC)

Yin Release Edit

According to the databook, Hashirama does not possess Yin Release. Pesa123456789 (talk) 16:04, November 12, 2014 (UTC)

Yet, he used genjutsu--Elve [Moderator] Talk Page|Contribs 18:21, November 12, 2014 (UTC)
Are all genjutsu Yin Release? • Seelentau 愛 18:28, November 12, 2014 (UTC)
According to Gengetsi Hozuki, they all are. I looked at most of the genjustu techs, and they're all classified as Yin Release techs. Don't know if that's enough proof to validate Hashiram being listed though.--Minamoto15 (talk) 18:40, November 12, 2014 (UTC)
@Seel, didn't you say that the databook states they are?--Elve [Moderator] Talk Page|Contribs 20:55, November 12, 2014 (UTC)
I didn't translate that part, Suzakun did. Don't know, ask him. • Seelentau 愛 21:10, November 12, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, he says so. Genjutsu are Yin Release conceptually.--Elve [Moderator] Talk Page|Contribs 11:42, November 13, 2014 (UTC)

So then the DB didn't specify he had Yin Release, therefore the reference is wrong. I'll fix that in the article.NoJutsu (talk) 10:02, November 16, 2014 (UTC)
Two conflicting statements in the databook then. All genjutsu are Yin Release, yet Hashirama isn't classified as a Yin Release user.--Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna JOA20 11:37, November 16, 2014 (UTC)
Obviously its a mistake, just like when it said Choji only had fire nature but we've seen him use a earth release jutsu. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 11:48, November 16, 2014 (UTC)

I agree with the first guy, the Databook says he does not have it, so he does not have it. It really is that simple. I don't know why do people think Kishi does not know what Hashirama has! Strange, oh well.. —This unsigned comment was made by Rex-05 (talkcontribs) .

And Choji used Earth Release in the manga, yet the book doesn't list him. It's not flawless--Elve [Moderator] Talk Page|Contribs 20:48, November 20, 2014 (UTC)
Hashirama used a genjutsu. Genjutsu falls under the category of Yin Release. Therefore, Hashirama has Yin Release. Simple concept really....--Minamoto15 (talk) 20:51, November 20, 2014 (UTC)
The problem seems to be the "All genjutsu are Yin Release" part.--Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna JOA20 21:04, November 20, 2014 (UTC)
I believe that was based on what Gengetsu Hozuki said in the manga. Not entirely sure the DB says on this issue. But why is it a "problem" though? Do you believe it to be so, or just one of the many theories that have been formed? Haha--Minamoto15 (talk) 21:28, November 20, 2014 (UTC)

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