Talk:Gentle Fist

Question

can't someone train themselves to send chakra through their palms and use it to damage the heart? everyone knows where the heart is so can't someone outside of the hyuga clan damage it with chakra control training alone? --75.3.231.166 (talk) 19:44, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

No, the point of Gentle Fist is to attack the chakra points, not the organs, and damaging the chakra points around these organs is what causes the damage. And since Byakugan is required to see the chakra points, that leaves the conclusion that no not anyone can learn it. -Perschbacher

Actually the basic point of Gentle Fist IS to target the organs. Skilled practicioners (i.e. Neji) can take it further and attack the chakra points. So, yes a regular person can use Gentle Fist.

No, Gentle Fist basic useage is to target the chakra network..to damage it and the organ's it's associated with. A skilled Juuken user probably knows where to attack someone's chakra network to damage their heart. A normal person cannot see the chakra network, so no, they can't use Gentle Fist. --Alexdhamp (talk) 22:47, June 5, 2011 (UTC)

Fiighting style

I think we could add these two paragraphs to the gentil fist page. They come from the fighting style page and I thing they complement well this article.

¨Another example of a fighting style is the Taijutsu style known as Gentle Fist, which is a both an 'Internal' style and a 'Soft' style martial art:

An 'Internal' martial arts style is a fighting style which is characterized by its emphasis on the use of the practitioner's mind to coordinate the leverage of the relaxed body, (as opposed to the use of brute strength,) and the internal development, circulation, and expression of their chakra. A practitioner of a internal style understands that an opponent is only as strong as their weakest joint. Training regimes for internal styles include meditation and exercising control over their internal chakra flow. A 'Soft' martial arts style is a fighting style is characterized by its approach by receiving the aggressor's force and momentum and turning it against him by leading the attack in another direction. In these styles, the user seeks to turn their opponents own strength against them, to bring them off-balance, diffusing the energy of the incoming attack, and, in the case of the Gentle Fist, to take them down from the inside. A 'soft' style is less about ones physical strength and more about ones internal power, in the case of of a Gentle Fist practitioner, its the user's superior chakra control and precision that brings success. This fighting style emphasizes control and defense.¨ Neji uchiha (talk) 06:46, March 12, 2010 (UTC)

Parent jutsu

Since this is the most basic thing the Byakugan allows, should we consider it a parent technique to the other Byakugan techniques, similar to what we do with Destruction Bug Host Technique? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:28, December 18, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think the Byakugan is actually necessary for the Gentle Fist style. It just makes it a lot more easy. —ShounenSuki ^{(talk | contribs | translations)} 21:37, December 18, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, I meant listing Gentle Fist as a parent jutsu to other Gentle Fist techniques, for example Eight Trigrams Sixty-Four Palms and Eight Trigrams Vacuum Palm. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:44, December 23, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, well, in that case, yeah of course. It wasn't already? —ShounenSuki ^{(talk | contribs | translations)} 22:53, December 23, 2010 (UTC)

No, it wasn't. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:54, December 23, 2010 (UTC)

Gentle Fist Style

Wouldn't "Gentle Fist Art" or "Art of Gentle Fist" more litera translation of "Jūkenpō"?--LeafShinobi (talk) 11:44, January 30, 2011 (UTC)

That would bring it in line with our translations of ninpō and senpō. 'Art' does come closer to the meaning of 法. —ShounenSuki ^{(talk | contribs | translations)} 16:38, January 30, 2011 (UTC)

So should we change it? —This unsigned comment was made by LeafShinobi (talk • contribs) .

OK, if no one has something against it, I will change it to "Gentle Fist Art".--LeafShinobi (talk) 14:53, May 26, 2011 (UTC)

OK, I changed it.--LeafShinobi (talk) 18:35, May 27, 2011 (UTC)

Gentle Fist Style

When is it called like that except of Eight Trigrams Sixty-Four Palms and Gentle Fist Style One Blow Body?--LeafShinobi (talk) 21:15, January 30, 2011 (UTC)

Dim Mak?

Could the Gentle Fist techniques have anything to do with the martial art Dim Mak or is it based off it? 108.74.182.16 (talk) 06:59, March 17, 2011 (UTC)

It certainly is related to it. What you call a martial art is really nothing more than a simple concept: the using of acupuncture points in attacks, sometimes leading to instant death. Dim Mak (點脈, diǎnmài) is generally called diǎnxuè (點穴) in Chinese; a word that translates to tenketsu in Japanese. —ShounenSuki ^{(talk | contribs | translations)} 08:38, March 17, 2011 (UTC)

I'd say it's probably a combination of Dim Mak and Baguazhang(Eight Trigrams Palm). --Alexdhamp (talk) 22:54, June 5, 2011 (UTC)

Hyūga Elder

In Neji Chronicles we can briefly see him when fightibg Oto Ninja but can we assume that he can use Gentle Fist?--LeafShinobi (talk) 21:32, March 22, 2011 (UTC)

Honestly I believe this wouldn't be a stretch but we never saw him using it so it's still an assumption but i'd be all for adding him though. --Cerez™☺ 23:36, March 30, 2011 (UTC)

Edit

The Gentle Fist style is sending chakra into the body of your opponent to attack the chakra network, subsequently injuring surrounding internal organs due to their close proximity. I changed it because this article defined striking the tenketsu as the Gentle Fist style, which is untrue; that is merely a variation of the Gentle Fist style. I believe that my change should be kept.

--Skipperdoo32 (talk) 23:13, March 30, 2011 (UTC)

(Sorry; the above comment should be under a new topic)

--Skipperdoo32 (talk) 23:14, March 30, 2011 (UTC)

No words you changed speak of tenketsu. Most Hyūga attack the chakra network without targeting the tenketsu, only a few can target those. Nothing about the way the article is written says that it's all just tenketsu attack. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:27, March 30, 2011 (UTC)

But that what I was trying to specify; the article had listed attacking the chakra network, "disrupting or diverting" the flow of chakra. This is the description used for when one attacks the tenketsu, not generally for gentle fist style fighting. I was just specifying that, for the article suggested that striking the tenketsu was a common aspect of Gentle Fist. —This unsigned comment was made by Skipperdoo32 (talk • contribs) .

I was under the impression that general attack to the chakra network would account for chakra flow being affected. I'll have to look for the chapters again. Thanks for pointing it out. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:46, March 30, 2011 (UTC)

hidden technique

why this technique can only be used by the hyuga can is this a hidden technique. —This unsigned comment was made by Tentenofthebashosen (talk • contribs) .

Sign your posts. The answer to your question is in the article. This style is about attacking the chakra network, something which requires the Byakugan to see. The term you want to use is hiden, not hidden, and this isn't hiden, it's a kekkei genkai taijutsu style. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:58, April 17, 2011 (UTC)

Couldn't the Main House techniques like Eight Trigrams Palms Heavenly Spin and Eight Trigrams Sixty-Four Palms be considered a Hiden within the Hyuuga clan, itself?--Alexdhamp (talk) 07:01, June 6, 2011 (UTC)

Not really, all those techniques were performed by releasing chakra to their tenketsu. --NejiLoverr26 10:26, June 6, 2011 (UTC)

You're mixing up "hiden" and "just not taught to them"--Cerez₃₆₅™ 10:55, June 6, 2011 (UTC)

Point taken. >.< --Alexdhamp (talk) 02:16, June 10, 2011 (UTC)

Does it really have to be fists?

I was just wondering, would it be possible for someone to be able to close or open a tenketsu using something other than their hands? Like, maybe, an elbow or something? Or is it just not possible in any other way? I'm writing something and I'd appreciate the input. Thanks in advance! --Marael (talk) 23:49, March 25, 2012 (UTC)

Of course, Hyuga can control all their Tenketsu. The taijutsu fighting style uses their hands though. --Elveonora (talk) 23:50, March 25, 2012 (UTC)

Kaguya

Hasn't she used this in the latest chapter?--Elveonora (talk) 11:21, June 11, 2014 (UTC)

When? The hair senbon stuff or those chakra fists? • Seelentau 愛 ^議 11:32, June 11, 2014 (UTC)

Chakra fists, reminiscent of Eight Trigrams Vacuum Palm--Elveonora (talk) 11:42, June 11, 2014 (UTC)

For me they look like Evening Elephant Human Hands version. :D —Shakhmoot _(Talk) 11:45, June 11, 2014 (UTC)

Really? I thought either simple tailed beast chakra hands or the welcoming approach murder-thing. • Seelentau 愛 ^議 11:46, June 11, 2014 (UTC)

Gentle Fist seems to actually require the use of ones fists, and it appears she did use hers, and she has her Byakugan active, I would say yes.

However as both of you are apt to point out, she never did state she used Gentle Fist so I would also say no, and as the article currently does not have her in it, I wouldn't add her now.--TheUltimate3 ^(talk) 11:48, June 11, 2014 (UTC)

Definitely not chakra arms, but could be a canonized version of welcoming approach murder thingy. So I guess next chapter it is--Elveonora (talk) 11:52, June 11, 2014 (UTC)

i guess we just wait then but i dont think its gentle fist. Munchvtec (talk) 13:33, June 11, 2014 (UTC)

I didn't think it was Gentle First when I saw it. I thought it was just generic chakra first, much like Naruto does with tailed beast chakra. It didn't look like Gentle Fist to me because GF doesn't usually get a hand imprint like that, the only one remotely similar is Hinata's Twin Lion Fists, but those look like lions, not fists. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 13:50, June 11, 2014 (UTC)

I guess it is gentle fist since she used her byakugan to create it and i guess gentle fist got it's new technique after a long time .(Jajati (talk) 11:47, June 13, 2014 (UTC))

Eight Trigrams: Twin Lions Crumbling Attack

so, does nayone who can plan on adding this to the jutsu list ?Yahyanime (talk) 16:57, January 31, 2015 (UTC)

Shira

See history, Omojuze says he used acupuncture instead of chakra. I guess he think acupuncture also blocked Neji's attack.--Elve _[Mod] ^{Talk Page|Contribs} 15:48, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

I didn't say acupuncture.. >.< I just noted to you an example as to how pressure points are used in nowaday life. Either way, Gentle Fist - palm fighting, and the existence of real-life pressure points which can be blocked with precise jabs (like in karate) or senbon. The only instance when a Hyūga used a finger was in the Chūnin Exams against Naruto, when Neji purposely jabbed Naruto's chakra point to block it.--Omojuze (talk) 15:51, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

And since Shira cloaks himself with his chakra using Silent Fist, I think that was enough to block Neji's attack, either that, or it's a filler mistake.--Omojuze (talk) 15:52, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

Tenketsu are tiny (so tiny that not even all Byakugan users can see them), they can be blocked by other means than chakra yes, by a needle for an example, but not by a mere impact of a finger which doesn't fit in. Shira's owl cloak makes him silent, it didn't close Lee's Tenketsu, otherwise it would have closed all of them not just those hit by Shira's finger.--Elve _[Mod] ^{Talk Page|Contribs} 15:56, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

Shira is a taijutsu user, so he's possibly highly knowledgeable in a person's body and chakra system. Well, we can't see pressure points in real-life too, but they can be blocked or stunned. Shira's owl cloak could've, but I don't really think so either, but If it did, Shira mostly did punches and not jabs, the jabs are what could've blocked 'em.--Omojuze (talk) 16:00, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

But he did jabs with two fingers for blocking Lee's chakra points. The only thing we don't know if there is chakra involved from his fingers just like with Neji, also for releasing chakra points he did hit some point which was no chakra point. When Shira was fighting Neji he was blocking Neji's Gentle Fist probably knowing where Neji is going to hit.--Mecha Naruto (talk) 16:29, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

What you say is like saying it's possible to put an arm into an ear hole, that's about the size difference between a finger and a tenketsu, impossible. Also Neji's attack can't be simply blocked/tanked, it inflicts internal damage as is a K.O. move, the only way he could sustain it is by releasing chakra from the points hit.--Elve _[Mod] ^{Talk Page|Contribs} 16:47, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

Bump.--Elve _[Mod] ^{Talk Page|Contribs} 12:18, February 27, 2015 (UTC)

It is a K.O. move but only when Neji's fingers hit the tenketsu which are in close proximity to the organs, Shira anticipated Neji's move he knew his tenketsu points so he blocked Neji's attack by his hands so it doesn't hit his tenketsu, a normal person who doesn't know about tenketsu would get hit by Neji, because the speed at which Neji's hand move is unblockable by random movements. Lets say the tenketsu node size is same as the size of pinhole or comparable to lymph nodes in our body, surely one would be able to block chakra flow pathway with pressure even though it is deep beneath the skin.

I was under the impression that Shira wasn't able to expel chakra just like Lee and Guy, they use it for Eight Gates mostly expelling sweat but not chakra, Also I believe Shira walking on quick sand was because of chakra control internally just like walking on water. If he is expelling then I guess he is similar to Neji in using this technique may be he is expelling chakra from the finger's tip in small amounts to hit tenketsu. Neji noted that he is using chakra cloak to muffle sound so the guy expelled chakra.--Mecha Naruto (talk) 12:56, February 27, 2015 (UTC)

Shira, Lee and Guy can all expel chakra. Shira's has chakra cloak all around his body in a shape of an "owl" he has to expel chakra from his body to do that. Even to walk on things they have to expel chakra from their feet to create a layer of chakra which makes them float above watter/attached to surfaces. Shira and Lee simply have no talent for Ninjutsu and Genjutsu, chakra control and chakra flow aren't Ninjutsu or Genjutsu, nature transformation is. Also Guy can use Ninjutsu.--Elve _[Mod] ^{Talk Page|Contribs} 13:41, February 27, 2015 (UTC)

So it's gentle fist then? but we have created a page for his technique which is used in conjunction with silent fist, does anyone agree for listing gentle fist as parent technique for Tenketsu Blocking Strikes? and also listing Shira as a user of gentle fist.--Mecha Naruto (talk) 14:55, February 27, 2015 (UTC)

No more opinions?--Elve _[Mod] ^{Talk Page|Contribs} 18:32, February 27, 2015 (UTC)

Can't support adding him as a user (is this what this thread is for?). The technique is based on a Hyūga kekkei genkai. Clarify what he said and then add to bird fist. Also Lee has no issue with expelling chakra, he just can't mold it to use jutsu. I do hate fillers so.—Cerez365^™(talk) 20:53, February 27, 2015 (UTC)

Based on, it doesn't require it.--Elve _[Mod] ^{Talk Page|Contribs} 21:18, February 27, 2015 (UTC)