THE Tobirama's space-time technique?
0_o Yes, it had to be brought up sooner or later. I doubt that a simple swipe of sword has to be named as such, not to mention it's unlikely a Mangekyou Sharingan Uchiha skilled with a sword would get hit so easily, notice Izuna's reaction, it had to be super fast thus unexpected, the scene doesn't tell at all what happened other than Izuna getting hurt by Tobirama, tho perhaps he teleported?--Elveonora (talk) 15:17, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
- I was going to add all that good stuff to the article when I was creating it (even prepared to add Flying Thunder God as the parent tech) but decided that the fallout from actually doing that would be way worse than leaving it blank. We need not only more information, but also need to clarify older info we already have on the wikia.--Cerez365™(talk) 15:26, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
What makes me think this is not only the fact that Izuna couldn't react but also Tobirama looks blurry all around thus teleportation. And yes, it's just a speculation at this point, tho as I said, if not me, someone else would have brought this up sooner or later instead--Elveonora (talk) 15:30, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
Probably, but we don't know it. Though if I remember correctly Minato noted that masked man aka Obito had better time-space ninjutsu than him or second hokage. It would be interesting if the two jutsu were connected. And Izuna wouldn't be defeated so easy considering like you said that he had Sharingan which had turned into Mangekyo. can't remember user name 184.108.40.206 (talk) 15:31, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
- I really dunno. I hope that when they do that, we get more information.--Cerez365™(talk) 15:59, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
When studying the photos, you see that the technique stabbed straight through his chest. This means that by some means, Tobirama went through Izuna, with his blade going straight through, implying some type of space-time ninjutsu. —This unsigned comment was made by 220.127.116.11 (talk • contribs) .
- While there certainly isn't enough information to establish a relationship yet, to prevent potential issues in the future (as we could be waiting a while for more information), maybe we should add a trivia note. Something like "this technique shares part of it's name with the Flying Thunder God Technique, though what relationship exists between the two, if any, is unclear", should hopefully appease most for the time being. Blackstar1 (talk) 21:09, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
Literal English naming
What would the last character "り" mean in "飛雷神斬り"? When I looked it up at Denshi Jisho (seems to be reliable to me) it came up as "ri" or "advantage, benefit, profit, interest."
Also, if it has the kanji "斬" or "zan" in it's name and "り" or "ri" at the end, how does it change from zanri to giri?
On another note, kinda funny how the technique is called "Flying Thunder God Beheading", yet it came out as a slash to the midsection. I guess Tobirama missed lol. General Awesomo 20:21, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
They're not meant to be translated separately. It comes from a verb. Look here. Also, there are several other techniques ending like that. Every named kenjutsu technique used by Kumo in the manga and anime ends like that. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:25, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
I see. Looking up 斬り came up as 斬り合う/kiriau, 斬り込み/kirikomi, etc. Then why isn't the romaji called "Hiraishinkiri"?
Everytime I look up "giri", it always translates to "duty, sense of duty, honor, decency, courtesy, debt of gratitude, social obligation" and all that jazz. How does that make sense? General Awesomo 20:45, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
Oh! So they're not actually saying "giri" like "duty, honor, etc." They're saying a mutated "kiri." Thanks a lot!
Wow, as I looked up rendaku, I realized this is a pretty complex rule in the Japanese language. General Awesomo 21:15, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
Kiri (斬り) actually just means "slash" or any other equivalent. I don't know where the obsession with translating it as "beheading" comes from, but it's used in several words and phrases to refer to various types of sword cuts, not just decapitating strikes. FF-Suzaku (talk) 21:31, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
Yeah. It's like the translator just looked at the "斬" part (zan, meaning beheading, decapitation) and left out the "り" part in the translation.
Also, why isn't it "Hiraijingiri"? General Awesomo 22:55, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
And why does Raishin / Raijin, the name of the Shinto god of thunder, get translated, while the other Shinto god named jutsus (Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, Susanoo, Kagutsuchi) stay untranslated? General Awesomo 23:13, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
We're just keeping consistency with previously translated techniques by our old translator, ShounenSuki, who unfortunately lost interest in the series. On the other question, the kanji used in this and for Flying Thunder God technique would usually have the Raijin romaji, yes, but the sound was changed to match 避雷針, which means lightning rod. The technique works by going to the applied seals, similar to how lightning is attracted to the lightning rods. It's a pun. You could have read it in the Flying Thunder God Technique article if you had looked a bit further. The technique was translated before I got here, so I don't really know, but my guess is be either due to the phonetic change de-emphasizing the mythological aspect, or due to Raijin in general having a proper, non-convoluted translation in English, something those other deities don't have. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:13, March 20, 2013 (UTC)
I've read about the lightning rod thing, but not that the romaji was actually changed to fit it. Interesting. But this technique might not be related to Flying Thunder God Technique because there's no seal to be drawn to, like lightning to a lightning rod. Not enough was shown to tell.
I understand that you guys are going by old habits when translating. Still, I think "beheading" is the wrong translation. I looked up all the techniques with "beheading" in their names. All of the Cloud Style techniques are never beheadings or even aimed at the head. Plus their romaji end with "giri" meaning slash, not just a simple "zan" meaning beheading. Iai Beheading's romaji also ends in giri, and Mifune didn't lob off Ibuse's head. Note that the Viz manga translation of these techniques don't use beheading or decapitation.
I propose that we change this article's name to "Flying Thunder God Slash" not because that's how I read it on Mangastream, but because that's the proper translation of "giri." And that we change all instances of "beheading" to slash or variants of slash. General Awesomo 02:13, March 20, 2013 (UTC)
Like I said, we were just trying to keep our translations in line with what ShounenSuki did, since he knew Japanese and all. The one thing I have against renaming the articles which have that in their names is that this could make them disappear from certain lists, or make them appear twice. Because lots of stuff here are gathered and listed using the SemanticMediaWiki extension, sometimes, it takes a while for the other templates to get the new information, so they'd either not list the technique for ages (like it happened to some technique articles created during the Chikara arc), or worst case scenario, they'd get double links (for example, Obito's Fire Release: Blast Wave Wild Dance, which gets double lists in a few infoboxes). Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:32, March 20, 2013 (UTC)
I still feel "beheading" for "giri" was a mistake on ShounenSuki's part. So we might as well change it to "Flying Thunder God Slash" now, right? It's not listed under Tobirama's jutsu list yet. General Awesomo 02:43, March 20, 2013 (UTC)
- I wouldn't say a mistake. Not all of his "kiri" translations were "beheading", and there's at least one technique with "zan" in it that I know he translated as Slash, Fukasaku's tongue technique. I think only the techniques involving swords were translated like that. ShounenSuki was extremely meticulous in his translations, so much that when certain requests came along, it would take time for him to deliver it. His translations, both here and in other forums he was active were the golden standard of translation. I'd much sooner see this as a preciosity or fastidiousness of his part than actual fault. Check his third databook translations yourself. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:55, March 20, 2013 (UTC)
I've heard a little about ShounenSuki, and I've read some of his comments on the Lightning Cutter talk page. Seems like a swell guy. Perhaps all these errors are popping up now because it's not him actively working on these translations, but an imitation of him instead? General Awesomo 03:08, March 20, 2013 (UTC)
So I went and changed the literal English and article name to "Flying Thunder God Slash." But the Recent Wiki Activity still lists it as "Flying Thunder God Beheading." Does that get updated after a while? Also, is it important to have the image renamed too? General Awesomo 04:08, March 20, 2013 (UTC)
- Thank you for not calling a human being an imitation of another. Any way, what happens here is that whenever a technique comes out we try to best align it with what we have on the wikia already if possible. That is why I created the page as Beheading rather than Slash even though I thought the latter to be more "appropriate" in this case (I am also able to use tangorin). It's always after we get the raws that the name is checked and then changed where necessary, that is to say unless someone changes it before that. To answer your question, yes it takes a while.--Cerez365™(talk) 09:52, March 20, 2013 (UTC)
Coming back to the naming, I feel I didn't do a good enough job moving the article from "Flying Thunder God Beheading" to "Flying Thunder God Slash", as the former doesn't show up as red text when written as an internal link like most previous article names I find here. So can I or anyone else change this? I'm afraid this is the only thing I can't figure out or find in this wiki's policies. General Awesomo 09:42, April 13, 2013 (UTC)
Flying Thunder God Beheading doesn't show as red text because the redirect was deleted when the article was moved. Only admins can delete pages. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:19, April 13, 2013 (UTC)
Oh, I see. Also, one final question: when am I able to edit infoboxes? Is it after a certain amount of edits or time? General Awesomo 07:38, April 15, 2013 (UTC)
Part of Flying Thunder God?
- Would be weird if we didn't I think, sometimes we have to take hints and use our brains to connect dots, Kishi won't spell every single thing into our faces--Elveonora (talk) 15:14, April 10, 2013 (UTC)
This technique is no longer kenjutsu anymore since Tobirama can use it with kunai marked with his seal marking on his tool as stated from the latest chapter #661. —Shakhmoot (Talk) 08:06, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
- I've removed the category and the word kenjutsu. I think we should be okay now? I did add Bukijitsu, I'm assuming that's what it would be.--Cerez365™(talk) 09:01, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
Minato as a user for this jutsu?
As we saw in the last chapter, this jutsu is basically teleporting then attack with a Kunai, or a sword. Did not Minato do that to obito twice? In chapter 503 and 637!Rex-05 (talk) 10:09, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
- need to nw in front of a computer, but if it can be used with anything sharp giving it a category kenjutsu or bukijutsu is not necessary.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 11:25, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
Take the anime stuff into consideration? Because according to anime, there's no difference between Tobirama and Minato's usage, save a sword slash. They both mark kunai, throw, teleport to it, land a blow on the enemy. See the topic above, should we list Minato as user of this as well? Unless killing someone with a knife doesn't count or something--Elveonora (talk) 15:51, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
They were each called different names. Many techniques in the show are similar yet not the same. Steveo920, 12:03, July 10, 2014
Minato pretty much did this exact same technique on Obito only with a kunai instead of a sword. Should we not list him as a user when we've set a precedent of listing characters as the users of very similar techniques, e.g. Kaguya is listed as a Temporary Paralysis Technique and Hair Binding Technique?--Reliops (talk) 17:36, August 27, 2014 (UTC)
I said the same thing before as well, the jutsu does not even require a sword as Tobirama did it with a Kunai against Madara. It's basically just a teleportation then a slash, nothing more, nothing less. Rex-05 (talk) 04:31, August 31, 2014 (UTC)