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Talk:Five Great Shinobi Countries

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Last Paragraph

I took out the last paragraph because as revealed in the latest fanbook Kumogakure is the strongest with Konoha barely being the third or fourth strongest, the fanbook also showed that they aren't even in power with the strongest village surpassing the weakest by a lot and not "just barely" and finally the last paragraph also claims that Konoha stop being the strongest village after Pain's invasion but it is never stated when konoha became weaker and it seems unlikely that the cause was Pain's invasion because in the end they were no casualties and reconstruction is going fine unlike the Suna/Oto invasion were they clearly stated that they were having problems because many strong ninjas died and they were short handed.

Actually, the Second Fanbook does claim that Konoha was severely weakened during Pain's invasion and that is was the strongest village before that. --ShounenSuki (talk | contribs) 13:29, December 17, 2009 (UTC)
It's a matter of economics really. Invasion of Konoha left the village with less ninja, a crap ton of repair bills, and a dead Hokage. The Invasion of Pain left the village with a giant crater and a comatose Hokage. That kind of crap three years close to each other builds up. The Invasion of Pain was probably the straw that finally broke the villages back.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 13:59, December 17, 2009 (UTC)
While it may be true that the Pain invasion weakened konoha(sorry didn't know) I really doubt that they stop being the strongest village after that invasion, when the oto/suna invasion was more destructive and claiming that konoha is the strongest just because its the main village is kind of fanboyish but I do agree that they do seem to be the most influential.--Masgrande (talk) 13:17, December 18, 2009 (UTC)
Like it really matters? Kishi has spoken and Kohona is no longer the strongest, move on and hope they regain their title is at the top soon, but with a war and so much damage it will take years.Saimaroimaru (talk) 23:35, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Konoha is the strongest

Someone keeps changing the last paragraph to Konoha being the strongest. However Kumogakure is the strongest. Kishi never said that Konoha was the strongest until the Pain's invasion and after pain's invasion Pain revived the dead shinobi (millitary and population). And after war rebuilding only strengthens economy so stop changing it to say that Konoha is the strongest or I will have you reported.

The wiki is meant to be true of any point in the series, not just the most recent material. Mentioning both is appropriate. ~SnapperTo 17:34, May 10, 2010 (UTC)
But Konoha is not mentioned as the strongest by Kishi. It is simple fan speculation and the popularity of Konoha shinobi. While it is a popular theory that Konoha was the strongest. It should have some source to back it up. Kishi did not say that Konoha was the strongest but that Kumo was. He did not say it was stronger pre pains invasion and t heir is nothing to suggest that they lost strength if we're speculating. As previously mentioned War creates economic activity, and Pain revived the dead therefore it would be logical to assume that it has not lost military strength, population strength and economic strength.
Try reading the above talkpage section. - SimAnt 03:37, May 11, 2010 (UTC)
It doesn't matter what you say. Kishi has spoken an Kumo is the strongest except it. Considering Kumo was rearming while the rest were disarming doesn't that say that Kumo should have been the strongest for a while.
A strong nation disarming, and a weak nation arming doesn't suddenly make the weak nation stronger. If America was to disarm it's nuclear weapon arsenal and Mexico decided to start one, if it got down to it and a war broke out, America would still rock Mexico. Same concept.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 04:23, May 11, 2010 (UTC)
First of all. Lightning as far as we know was already strong. Second of all Mexico vs. US if Mexico was arming and US disarming would be uncertain. Remember Japan, Germany and Italy in WWII. All 3 had weak economies but Japan managed to conquer almost half of China. Germany effectivelty spread into France, Chekloslavakia and Poland. Only Italy had an easy target (Ethiopia) and they didn't conquer it completely anyways so forget them. Any ways my point is Kishi has spoken and Kumo is the strongest. Save the Konoha is the strongest for the fanfiction buddy.
Kumo is the strongest post-Pain, Konoha was the strongest pre-Pain. So says ShounenSuki says Kishimoto. Unless you can convince Suki to retract his previous statement as a faulty translation, both will be mentioned. ~SnapperTo 04:49, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

No one said that. Shonensuki translated it as Kumo being the strongest. You just don't want to except that. Nothing said that it was after the Invasion of Pain.

http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=571348

"Actually, the Second Fanbook does claim that Konoha was severely weakened during Pain's invasion and that is was the strongest village before that. --ShounenSuki (talk | contribs) 13:29, December 17, 2009 (UTC)" ~SnapperTo 05:19, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

No it doesn't. I read it myself and it did not say that. This is so stupid. Kumo is the strongest except. And I've been blocked for telling the truth this whole wiki is full of lies. You all should save it for the fanfiction.

...Why did you reference shonensuki's translation if you were able to read it yourself...? - SimAnt 05:28, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

Because you guys were going by his translations.

Why does it seem like you guys are trying to make it seem like Konoha is still the best. Most of that paragraph talks about how konoha, the land of Fire, and the Hokage are the most powerful people in the world. Kumo is the strongest but it only gets a small quick mention at the end of the paragraph. I'm spreading the word that this wiki isn't a good source of information.

Because throughout the series, up until Pain destroyed the village, the Land of Fire and Konoha were the strongest nation/village. While we don't know how the Land of Fire's position changed after the invasion, we know that as of about 1 year to 6 months, Kumo has become the strongest village. --TheUltimate3 (talk) 14:00, May 12, 2010 (UTC)
Rather than brood, the average person would try proving their point. Maybe provide their own translation of the fanbook with fancy, foreign squiggles and the like. ~SnapperTo 14:44, May 12, 2010 (UTC)


Wait, the Invasion of *Pain* knocked down their status? Not the Invasion of Sound and Sand? After Sound and Sand invasion we heard heavily on how they were short-handed and all the jonin were super-busy, plus they lost their Kage, but after the invasion of Pain literally the only ninja casualty was Tsunade being knocked into a coma, all deaths were temporary. They lost material but not ninja. So that sounds quite odd to me. ZeroSD (talk) 23:58, February 11, 2011 (UTC)

Sand and Sound may have knocked them down, but ratings were never given for that part of the series. A decline after Pain makes sense if you consider that Konoha may have lost the ability to manufacture particular assets (armor, weapons, supplies) or records needed to do business (mission particulars, contact information, intel). They still have a 5 in population which is logical given that nobody died. ~SnapperTo 01:48, February 12, 2011 (UTC)
Imagine all the jutsu stored on scrolls that were most likely lost. Arrancar79 (talk) 01:53, February 12, 2011 (UTC)

Image

Is there perhaps a different image that can be used for this article? Only the main island of the Land of Water is coloured, while it actually consists of many islands. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 16:04, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

I found it by chance. Somewhere in the anime maybe they had showed it again (in the first few episodes perhaps)but I don't know where and I don't like the idea of checking every episode to find something that may not exist. I will look for it when I download random episodes to fill the missing images. I don't think the image is a bad one(except missing some main island :)) and why it has poor quality??? Because of the text???--Donatelo (talk) 18:34, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
It has both English text and a watermark. The error in the colouring of the Land of Water is the worst, though. Enough to replace it. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 16:03, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

Correct name

In chapter 526, Hanzou said 五大国の忍 Gotaikoku no Shinobi. Isn't that the correct name? Seelentau 愛 19:12, February 11, 2011 (UTC)

No, that would mean "the shinobi of the five great countries". —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 19:23, February 11, 2011 (UTC)
Ah, yeah, you're right... but why's there (in the correct name) the Hiragana for bi and in other names not? Seelentau 愛
That's a good question. It could be Kishimoto-sensei wanted to invoke the meaning of concealing or enduring, rather than ninja. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 19:52, February 11, 2011 (UTC)
Mhkay. And the final question for today: Is there a term to summarize the smaller countries? Seelentau 愛 20:25, February 11, 2011 (UTC)
Nothing other than small country (小国, shōkoku). —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 21:00, February 11, 2011 (UTC)

Infobox

I think we've should create an infobox for the countrys (put the nunber of population, which country do the village belong, its kage...) LIGHTNING HAWK (talk) 01:26, April 21, 2011 (UTC)

I don't see think it's really necessary. Infoboxes are for stuff which there's a lot info about, such as character info, relatives, jutsu et al. Also, you're mixing country with village. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:11, April 21, 2011 (UTC)

council's

some of them seem t have councils that have tremedious infulence and seem to democraticly elected.—This unsigned comment was made by Gundam halo (talkcontribs) .

That's way too many unknowns.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol 21:45, January 22, 2012 (UTC)

Change

excuse me, can I change word "Kumogakure became the most powerful of the five villages", become "Land of Lightning and Kumogakure became the most powerful village and country" ...? —This unsigned comment was made by VanAwan (talkcontribs) .

The series never gave much emphasis to the country. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:51, March 22, 2012 (UTC)

Dictatorship?

What about you guys change the "dictatorship" to "feudalism", as the Daimyō was the feudal lord in Japan?--PlacidoNB - Talk - Contributions 19:11, May 5, 2013 (UTC)

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