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Tonque or Water

Uh, Tongue or water? Simant (talk) 01:21, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

I don't know what the anime made of it, but it is clearly stated in the third databook that he uses Fukasaku tongue. --ShounenSuki (talk | contribs) 15:53, October 16, 2009 (UTC)
Tongue or oil or water? Are you sure that the language does not seem.
Tongue. --ShounenSuki (talk | contribs) 17:02, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

tongue in manga, water in anime

I don't know for you guys, but for me it seems like water - in the anime and in the manga. But in the Third Databook it is said that it is tonque.

Looks like water in both anime and manga.

Yeah it's weird. Both in the anime and manga it looks like water, but if ShounenSuki says that in the databook it says tongue... it must be like that. Could it be another pun Shounen? A pun like the ones Kishi likes to use? Or better it is to ask: does the jap word for tongue have other meanings than tongue? (I am thinking water or some liquid:)) - MadaraU (talk) 20:05, October 22, 2009 (UTC)
The only pun here is in the name of the technique. Although it's translated as War of Words Decapitation here, the kanji literally mean Tongue Battle Decapitation. The databook is very clear, with no possible puns, double meanings, or mistakes. Fukasaku uses his tongue.
I think the reason it looks like water is because of the odd use of angles. In the manga, the tongue looks a lot like a jet of water, becoming wider at the end. However, if you check the second frame, you can see the tongue is the same thickness everywhere. The water spray effect is likely the debris caused by the cutting. --ShounenSuki (talk | contribs) 21:12, October 22, 2009 (UTC)

Tongue or water?

Um, the people who write the databooks must be flipping idiots if they think that's his tongue in the manga. IT'S WATER IN BOTH THE ANIME AND THE MANGA!!!!—This unsigned comment was made by 98.200.252.109 (talkcontribs) .

Seriously, I trust the databooks about as much as I trust the "Naruto Fanon Wiki." It's clearly water.

Water.

Water.

Everywhere!98.200.252.109 (talk) 20:03, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

The information from the Databooks come from Kishimoto himself not anyone else and if he says its a tounge then its a tounge.--Deva 27 (talk) 20:08, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

Speaking of databoooks, does anyone where how I can read them? And how do we know that the databook info comes from Kishi himself?? 98.200.252.109 (talk) 20:23, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

Look at popular Naruto forums. they usually have them translated. I don't believe they've ever officially been translated though. ¥ Super Novice Talk 2 Me ¥ 20:23, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

Seriously, people, actually READ chapter 376. How could anyone mistake that huge(WATER)splash in that one panel for a tongue? And I still don't think Kishimoto writes the databooks, which is why I don't give a Shino about most of the "data" in them. 98.200.252.109 (talk) 20:30, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

I thought it was water at first too, but the databooks are an official source so it will not be changed.--Deva 27 (talk) 20:37, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

I don't consider them official, but....98.200.252.109 (talk) 20:44, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

I'M STILL NOT CONVINCED that it's a tongue (or that Kishi writes the databooks for that matter), but there ain't much I can do about it.98.200.252.109 (talk) 20:44, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

Guess I'll stop arguing now =P—This unsigned comment was made by 98.200.252.109 (talkcontribs) .

  1. Kishimoto-sensei writes the databooks, there is no arguing about that. It is as certain as the fact he writes the manga.
  2. The technique isn't called Fighting Tongue Slash for nothing.
  3. Although the first frame where we see this technique looks a bit odd, you should check out the following frames. You can clearly see that what is coming from Fukasaku's mouth is too straight to be a jet of water. There is also no water effect where it cuts. It is a tongue.
--ShounenSuki (talk | contribs) 20:54, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

Still not convinced. Not gonna argue though...98.200.252.109 (talk) 21:02, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

I would prefer you did argue, though. It might lead to an improved article in the future. After all, you believe the current information to be incorrect. --ShounenSuki (talk | contribs) 21:40, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

It just seems like a lot of the databook stuff (like the tongue thing or Earth Grudge Fear) doesn't really sound like something Kishi would write. Maybe that particular part wasn't written by Kishi, or maybe it was, but he hadn't read his own manga in so long that he forgot whether it was water or a tongue. 98.200.252.109 (talk) 17:25, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

Stuff that sounds odd in English isn't necessarily going to sound odd in Japanese. ~SnapperTo 21:54, March 18, 2010 (UTC)
I would also like to point out that Kishimoto-sensei seems to be infamous in the manga business for being unable to delegate work to his assistants. He apparently tries to do all the work on his own.
Also Snapper2 is right, what sounds odd in English doesn't necessarily sound odd in Japanese. --ShounenSuki (talk | contribs) 22:09, March 18, 2010 (UTC)
So allegedly, something makes perfect sense in his head and he tells his assistants to do this and not explain it? Would explain somethings...--TheUltimate3 (talk) 22:11, March 18, 2010 (UTC)
I believe the allegations are that he doesn't even do that. From what I remember of the assistant spotlights in the manga volumes, the only real jobs are doing background stuff and filling in blacks. Diminishes the number of scapegoats if you ask me. ~SnapperTo 22:20, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Fukasaku's Water Release: Water Stream

Original Source of Discussion Talk:Fukasaku's Water Release: Water Stream#Legitimacy

You wish to discuss, then discuss. Let the games begin.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 03:24, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Not going to start it? Ok then I'll do it then.
  • Argument 1) The manga showed the jutsu as a stream of water 2.
  • Argument 2) The databook says the jutsu was a tongue, end of story.

The rest can be found in the link provided above. Let's get er done.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 03:44, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

I cannot provide a full argument anymore due to time constraints, though I will give the manga relevant pages here and here (look closely at the middle panel, in my opinion at least). Oh, and I left a message about making the article a little less bias. Thanks by the way. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 03:51, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Is it just me or is this more of a 'Is the databook always right?' argument? I mean, what would you say was shown on those pages if you had never seen the databook? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 00:58, May 25, 2010 (UTC)

If you never saw the databook, then you would take what you've seen in the manga. However the databook's do exist and hold source as a reference work. Like I said before, Kishimoto decided this, so it's this, that or another.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 01:15, May 25, 2010 (UTC)

Icon

Is the Water Release icon still in this technique because it was Water in the anime or is there another reason? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:37, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Because it was water in the manga (see above section). Thomas Finlayson (talk) 00:20, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
No it was a tongue that looked like water... - SimAnt 00:27, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
It wasn't water in the manga, you want it to be water in the manga. The only conceivable reason for it to still have the water icon is because of the anime, which is precisely what I want to know. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:32, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

I even had pictures of water drops coming down and the spray of the water when it hit the ground before being focused. And how on earth does that translate into 'I want it to be water?' Plus, I do not watch the anime, my information all came from manga. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 00:47, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

I've seen those images. That's due to angles, tongue warts and saliva. No Water Release. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:00, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

So...here he is spitting at the ground, or all around his tongue and it somehow sprays up like that...? And here the clear stuff is huge globs of spit and not water?

Even if we assume that he can produce that much, do toads even have saliva? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 01:04, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

In the first panel from the first link, it's his tongue hitting something, it looks big because of the angle, as if the tongue went very near where the "observant" is, the thing around his tongue being debris and in the second link, yes it is spit/saliva/drool. This is a manga in which toads can spit fire and teleport, and you're worried about how much saliva they can make? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:28, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

The latter is chakra based, I have not seen anything about being able to make that much saliva from chakra. I will grant that the angle has an effect, but why in the middle-right [panel] is it still so large? And saliva is heavier and cloudier than water, it would not spray up or look like that. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 01:32, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
Even if it was water, and it's not, that wouldn't actually make it Water Release. So yeah...--TheUltimate3 (talk) 01:47, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

Come again!? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 01:51, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

It uses water, that does not mean it's a Water Release. The Two-Tailed Cat Menacing Fire Ball is a fire ball, but it's not a Fire Release. Wind Release: Great Breakthrough was on fire (in the anime at least), it was a Wind Release, not a Fire Release.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 01:54, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
One, thanks for that clarification, I could never understand why people were going on about that since it does not look like fire in the manga. Two, the anime is irrelvent for this. Three, how does the fire ball, not become a fire release!? Four, how do you know it is the same here? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 01:58, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
One, no problem. Two, it is relevant. Three, because it's not. Best not to assume it is or isn't. Four, I have no reason to believe it is different here.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 02:03, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
How is the cat's trick not when Shukaku's wind is? What makes this water technique different from all the others (assuming it is, skip the tongue thing for a second). Thomas Finlayson (talk) 02:13, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

Because Shukaku actually used a Wind Release jutsu. He literally said "Fūton: Renkūdan"--TheUltimate3 (talk) 02:21, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

...That is it? That is how we decide, if the person says so or not? What about all the other jutsu we have where they do not say '_____ release?' Thomas Finlayson (talk) 02:23, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
Titans help us. Shukaku is the only tailed beast to actually use a jutsu. That is the difference between it's Wind Bullet, and the Two-Tails Menacing Ball. THat's what I was trying to telll you.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 02:24, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
'Titans?' But that does not mean that it is indeed not fire release. Is this a databook thing? And how does it relate to this jutsu? —This unsigned comment was made by Thomas Finlayson (talkcontribs) .

Another tongue thing...

Hey, Omnibender, about all the "weird angles/warts/debris" stuff.... I think you should admit that Kishi MADE A MISTAKE when he said it was a tongue. It's clear, (at least to me), that it was originally supposed to be water. He probably doesn't go back and study the art on every last page before he writes the databooks. I know it's hard to believe that omnipotent Masashi could actually err, but I really think he did. 98.200.252.109 (talk) 14:54, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

And yet, he is the one who made the databooks as well as the manga. That's all him. Turns out the man does most of the work himself. Leaves less margin of error. Anyway, he says tongue. It's tongue. No amount of complaining here can change that.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 14:57, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
Utterly on his own? No one else examines them? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 04:55, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
Of course people examine them. He has both assistants and editors that do that. --ShounenSuki (talk | contribs) 06:26, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
Thanks, just wanted to clear that up. One question though, before you got the databook what did you (plural) think it was (of course it may have been a while, so if you do not remember, never mind). Thomas Finlayson (talk) 21:54, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
I thought it was a tongue when I first read it. In fact, it never even crossed my mind that it could be water until the anime came along.
I will admit that it does look like it could have been water. I think it was mostly Shima's obviously tongue-related technique that made me think it was a tongue as well. --ShounenSuki (talk | contribs) 23:35, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

Why have an obvious tongue and a vague undetermined one so close together? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 00:21, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Why have a tongue and a water jet that could easily be interpreted as a tongue so close together? --ShounenSuki (talk | contribs) 00:22, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
LOL, fair enough. But, not to be picky, it looked clear to me, especially with the 'water spray.' Maybe it did also to the inspectors Kishi has.
I have a question for you: Where did you see this technique first? The anime or the manga? I'm asking, since this problem didn't seem to arise until the anime scene came out. --ShounenSuki (talk | contribs) 00:52, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
I have added my answer to my user page. But for you I will say this: I do not even have cable. I have not even seen a full episode; just the last few minutes of two episodes back in the Forest of Death arc and a few minutes online when for the arc with Sora to see some Earth jutsu (had a lot then, and I was curious). All, "all," of my information is from the manga. I apologize if this violates the rules of not putting down personal information; but I thought I would make it clear that my arguments on this topic are not from anime.
On that subject, how large are other manga-anime differeces compared to this (if it is a tongue in the manga I mean) since they would have people looking at that too, does Kishi examine them even? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 04:12, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

This would be one of the bigger differences between the manga and anime. However, it most certainly isn't alone in that category. I'm manga-only as well, so I do not have much knowledge of the anime, but I do remember them showing Itachi using Mangekyō techniques with a normal Sharingan, changing wind techniques into fire, putting the events of the Second Shinobi World War during the third war, and a lot more.

It is quite obvious that Kishimoto-sensei has little to no input in the anime. In fact, it is quite clear that the anime creators have no more information on the series than the readers have. --ShounenSuki (talk | contribs) 15:33, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Not gonna bother seriously reading this dicussion even. If you find a difference in the transition from manga to anime, note it on the differences page, and be done with it. - SimAnt 17:58, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Not the point of it. Was more of curiousity in regards to potential errors and if perhaps the anime did indeed have an accurate examination of the manga scene. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 23:50, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

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