Talk:Fourth Shinobi World War: Countdown/Archive 1

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It think it's becoming increasingly obvious that "Fourth Shinobi World War" is a terrible name for this arc, especially since the war is likely going to be a backdrop for several upcoming arcs. I suggest "expanding" the Kage Summit arc up to chapter 488 and renaming this arc to something about jinchuriki or the demon fox. Thoughts? ~SnapperTo 02:46, July 18, 2010 (UTC)

Sounds good too me. --ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 06:30, July 18, 2010 (UTC)

I would have to agree with this as well, given it really makes no sense unless the War is only going to go for a certain amount of time. More so given that there will be more then one thing going on while the war is in effect. And the war is not really the main focus, but the Containers or what is left of said containers, and those hunting the containers. Hoever I am not sure what you could call it. --RogueNya (talk) 16:29, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

New Arc??

Is the Confining Jinchuriki Arc over? Should we start the 4th War arc now as of chapter 515?Sparxs77 (talk) 09:06, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

I think we should. --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 12:17, November 3, 2010 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi
Chapter 516 didn't feel much different, I think it should still count as part of this arc. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:54, November 10, 2010 (UTC)

I agreed. When the war actully starts, then we can make a new arc page? Is everyone okay with that?--NinjaSheik 22:38, November 10, 2010 (UTC)

Even though the jinchuriki are still being confined, and no LARGE scale battles have been fought yet... winning the 4th Shinobi War takes priority over confining the jinchuriki... So my opinion is to RENAME this arc instead of creating a new one. Besides... as of Naruto #516, Anko Mitarashi has begun fighting Kabuto Yakushi. Does that not count as the war beginning? -- (talk) 21:45, November 11, 2010 (UTC)

Well, now that I think about it. I changed my mind, we should make a new arc. I mean, everyone is starting the War, right? People are charging into battle...But either way we do it, I'll go along with whatever the admins think it's right.--NinjaSheik 21:48, November 11, 2010 (UTC)

Don't be so hasty. Arcs are usually best determined well into the next arc. For all we know, the next chapter might throw everything around again. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 23:14, November 11, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, okay.--NinjaSheik 23:16, November 11, 2010 (UTC)

Just because the actual war hasn't started yet, doesn't mean that this can't be a new arc. I mean, look at Pain's Invasion Arc. The Arc started at chapter 403, but the actual invasion itself began at chapter 418. All I'm saying is we can determine the outcome with the way the story is moving. Since chapter 516 started showing the two opposing sides marching towards the war, I highly doubt that Kishi-sensei it will take another 30 chapters for them just to run to the battlefield and then dub it "Running Towards the Battlefield Arc." Also, since Bee told Naruto in the last chapter that he's almost done with his training, doesn't that signify that this arc is coming to a close? I just think the admins and higher ups should really think about this and not just shoot it down. We don't just say stuff because we like to. There is evidence to support this. Sparxs77 (talk) 19:19, November 12, 2010 (UTC)

Arcs are not based in canon. They are merely ways of chopping the story up into manageable pieces, so that we can add the details to the articles in an actually usable manner. Sometimes there are clear beginnings and endings to an arc, but oftentimes they subtly transition into one another. We don't know what Kishimoto-sensei will focus on next, so we cannot tell at this moment what the next arc will be about, when it will start, and how things can be best categorised. Instead of risking having to chance the arc names and spans, we would do better to simply wait a bit longer until things are clearer. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 21:12, November 12, 2010 (UTC)
I agree with this assessment entirely. My major concern is that "Confining the Jinchuriki" is a misnomer for this arc. The confinement is just a smaller tactic within the much greater 4th Shinobi war. The name "confining the jinchuriki" is no longer accurately/comprehensively portraying the events that are unfolding. This name just confuses people. There are only two options that I can see that will fix the problem... and sooner or later, the admins/contributers will have to implement one of these two options:
OPTION #1: Create a brand new arc after a chosen cut-off point.
For example, Naruto #515 onward will be called something along the lines of "Fourth Great Shinobi War arc" while Naruto's time and training on the turtle island will be contained within the (now seperate) "Confining the Jinchuriki Arc."
OPTION #2: Rename the current arc to something more accurate.
The name "Confining the Jinchuriki arc" will be changed to something along the lines of "Fourth Great Shinobi War arc." This renamed arc will include Naruto's time and training on the Turtle Island.
Option #1 adheres to ShounenSuki's stated framework because it breaks the story down into managable chunks. However, Naruto's time and training on the Turtle Island will continue well into the purposed "Fourth Great Shinobi War arc". That will cause some confusion among the readers. Option #2 solves this problem by fusing Naruto's training with the events of the war (which is accurate, since his training is happening WHILE the war is occuring). However, Option #2 is less managable according to ShounenSuki's stated framework because it doesn't break the story down into more managable chunks.
So, just to recap, Option#1 keeps things managable yet less accurate (since the training continues through the war), while Option #2 keeps things accurate yet slightly less managable. Now, if you ask me, we should be shooting for accuracy above all else... So I feel we should go with option #2 and just rename the arc to something along the lines of "Fourth Great Shinobi War arc."
That said, this decision probably won't be made until much later, when we know more about the story. But sooner or later, the decision must be made.--Daleadil (talk) 04:00, November 13, 2010 (UTC)

It's still too early to do things, but if things pace up in following chapters, I think we can consider chapter 517 as the beginning of a new arc. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:40, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

Sweet! That means we can create the a new Arc page?--NinjaSheik 00:42, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

Are we all in agreement that we can start a new arc? Sparxs77 (talk) 13:49, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

I'm in agreement. Anybody else? --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 13:54, November 18, 2010 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi

That depends on what you propose as the name and beginning point of the arc. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 14:03, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
I propose: Fourth Great Shinobi War arc and the starting point being Chapter 516. --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 14:10, November 18, 2010 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi
But is chapter 516 a logical start? Naruto's training still isn't finished and the earlier preparations we've seen flawlessly continue into the current chapter. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 14:43, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
Hmm you make a point. I don't know anymore.--KiumaruHamachi (talk) 14:50, November 18, 2010 (UTC) KiumaruHamachi
Which is exactly why I said we should be patient. Arcs should only end aftre their main plot line is resolved, like how the Search for Tsunade arc ended after Tsunade accepted the Hokage title and Orochimaru was chased off again, or how the Land of Waves arc ended after Gatō was defeated and the bridge was finished. Nothing has really been resolved so far, nor has there even been a clear plot line to resolve. I wouldn't be surprised if the Confining the Jinchūriki arc will later on be merged into a larger Beginning of the War arc. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 15:24, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
Listen guys, I know you're probably gonna get angry at me now... Look, I'll admit... ShounenSuki's got a point that alot of arcs have definite endings like "Search for Tsunade" and "Land of Waves." But then again, there were arcs that went through very subtlety. For example Chuunin Exam Arc to Konoha Invasion Arc. If I didn't join this wiki, I would still think to this day that they were one arc. Even more recently, the Five Kage Arc to Confining Arc. There was no immediate stop there either. True, the Kage did end their meeting, but then we could just aswell ended it there and made a "Original Team 7 re-unties Arc." What I'm trying to say is that Naruto's main focus is done. He defeated Kyūbi and met Kushina. That was the HUGE issue of the Confining Arc. The main focus shifted now from Naruto to the Allied Shinobi Forces. Naruto's story is just a sub plot now to get him to stay on the island. His training isn't a major plot now. I mean, his training to stack blocks was covered in just a few panels. Kishi-sensei just wants us, the viewers, to feel assured that Naruto's still out there. Just imagine a worst case scenario: Naruto is still stuck on the island for another 10 chapters, but by then the war will have been in full swing. What then? Also, please look at my reasons for feeling so strong about this and pushing my point... My personal opinion is that Confining ended with chapter 514. I believe so because it ended Naruto's "S-Rank" Mission. It ended Kabuto's scuffle on the island. It ended with Madara stating he was hungry for war. Then there was a 2 week break. Now I know that that isn't enough evidence. But now look at chapter 515. In the first place the title states "The War begins." Kishi-sensei began his previous arc with a colour spread and cover for Shōnen Jump TOGETHER(chapter 489: On the brink of World War... the beginning of the Confining Arc), exactly the like chapter 515 started. Chapter 515 also indicates the start of the Naruto's sub plot: the new training to stay on the island. Chapter 515 starts with the Allied Shinobi Forces and Akastuki making their first moves. I know I'm rambling on, and speaking out of turn, but does anyone at least see the point I'm trying to make? Sparxs77 (talk) 19:15, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

I see your point, Sparxs, I think I agree with you! We're no longer focusing on just "confining the Jinchuriki" anymore. The war was start and that, for now, is what going on. Yes, everyone's still making sure Naruto and Killer Bee stays behind, but the war is starting. Forces are moving out, comrades are dieing, battles are taking place. I think it's time to move on to the new arc.--NinjaSheik 21:20, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

Again, I would like to point out that the arcs are not some sort of concept thought up by Kishimoto-sensei himself. We created them for our convenience. Looking at thing logically, the Konoha Crash is a part of the Chūnin Exam arc.
In fact, here's my personal opinion on the breakdown of the arcs of Part I, with sub-arcs:
  • Chapters 1–8: Introduction Arc
    • Naruto Introduction (1–2), Team Kakashi Introduction (3–8)
  • Chapters 9–33: Land of Waves Arc
    • Intro/Onikyōdai (9–10), First Zabuza Fight (11–16), Tree Climbing Training (17–21), Second Zabuza Fight (22–33)
  • Chapters 34–138: Chūnin Exams Arc
    • Introduction (34–39), First Exam (40–44), Second Exam (45–64), Preliminaries (65–87), Interlude/Summoning Training (88–97), Third Exam (98–113), Konoha Crash (114–138)
  • Chapters 139–171: Search for Tsunade Arc
    • Introduction (139–143), Akatsuki Encounter/Beginning the Search (144–148), Rasengan Training/Finding Tsunade(149–161), Sannin Confrontation (162–171)
  • Chapters 172–238: Sasuke Retrieval Arc
    • Tsunade Returns/Sasuke Leaves (172–181), Jirōbō/Kidōmaru (186–198), The Rest (199–214), Kimimaro's Final Battle (215–217), The Battle at the Valley of the End (218–234), Epilogue (235–238)
  • Chapters 239–244: Kakashi Gaiden
ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 23:31, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

What do you propose we should do, then?--NinjaSheik 23:38, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

Be patient for a while. Tomorrow morning, in about nine hours, I'll go over Part II and check how I believe that part of the story could best be broken down. I have a feeling the Confining the Jinchūriki arc will become merely the introduction to a larger Fourth Great Shinobi World War arc, though. Still, I'd rather check to be sure and it's about time the arcs are reconsidered, any way. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 23:49, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
I think that sounds fair.--NinjaSheik 23:52, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
Just a thought. Maybe split into "Controlling the Nine Tails Arc" and "Preparations for War Arc." Then afterwards add a "Forth Shinobi War Arc." Just a thought to get your juices flowing. --Daleadil (talk) 02:17, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
They'd be too small for the amount of things that happened in them. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:37, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

Alright, I went over the entire manga to see how we could best divide it up. I ended up with a total of twelve arcs with sixty sub-arcs. Here are my results:

Part I

  • Introduction Arc (1–8)
    • Naruto Introduction (1–2)
    • Team Kakashi Introduction (3–8)
  • Land of Waves Arc (9–33)
    • Mission Introduction/Onikyōdai (9–10)
    • First Zabuza Fight (11–16)
    • Tree Climbing Training (17–21)
    • Second Zabuza Fight (22–33)
  • Chūnin Exams Arc (34–138)
    • Introduction (34–39)
    • First Exam (40–44)
    • Second Exam (45–64)
    • Preliminary Exams (65–87)
    • Interlude/Summoning Training (88–97)
    • Third Exam (98–113)
    • Konoha Crash (114–138)
  • Search for Tsunade Arc (139–171)
    • Introduction (139–143)
    • Akatsuki Encounter/Beginning the Search (144–148)
    • Rasengan Training/Finding Tsunade (149–161)
    • Sannin Confrontation (162–171)
  • Sasuke Retrieval Arc (172–238)
    • Tsunade Returns/Sasuke Leaves (172–181)
    • Jirōbō/Kidōmaru (186–198)
    • Sakon & Ukon/Tayuya/Kimimaro Introduction (199–214)
    • Kimimaro's Final Battle (215–217)
    • The Battle at the Valley of the End (218–234)
    • Epilogue (235–238)

Kakashi Gaiden (239–244)

Part II

  • Rescuing the Kazekage Arc (245–280)
    • Reintroduction (245–246)
    • Capturing the Kazekage (247–249)
    • Going to the Rescue (250–254)
    • Fighting the Fakes (255–261)
    • Fighting the Real Akatsuki (262–278)
    • Gaara Revived (279–280)
  • Meeting the Spy Arc (281–310)
    • Preparing for the Mission (281–285)
    • The Mission Proper (286–296)
    • Sai Switches Sides (297–305)
    • Reunion with Sasuke/Epilogue (306–310)
  • Hidan and Kakuzu Arc (318–342)
    • The Opening Moves (318–322)
    • The Sacrificial Piece (323–330)
    • The Endgame (331–342)
  • Itachi Pursuit Arc (343–402)
    • Orochimaru's Demise and the Rise of Hebi (343–352)
    • Starting the Pursuit (353–355)
    • Meetings and Clashes (356–364)
    • Building up to Fated Battles (365–370)
    • Teacher Versus Students (371–383)
    • Battle Between Brothers (384–394)
    • The Hawk Born from a Kite (395–402)
  • Invasion of Pain Arc (403–449)
    • New Objectives and Cracking Codes (403–407)
    • Sages and Jinchūriki, Toads and Octopi (408–418)
    • The Invasion of Pain (419–429)
    • The Sage Versus the Six Paths (430–436)
    • The Nine-Tails' Jinchūriki Versus the Deva Realm Pain (437–442)
    • Naruto Versus Nagato (443–449)
  • Preparing for the War Arc (450–486)
    • The Beginning of the Summit (450–459)
    • Interruptions (460–467)
    • Forming the Alliance and Tying up Loose Ends (468–474)
    • The End of Danzō and the Fall of Sasuke (475–481)
    • Comrades Versus Comrades (482–486)
    • Preparing for War (487–490)
    • Jinchūriki Training Part I: Of Eights and Nines (491–495)
    • Jinchūriki Training Part II: Of Mothers and Sons (496–504)
    • The End of Akatsuki: Sharks and Tigers and Angels, Oh My (505–511)
    • Final Preparations (512–516)

What do you guys think? —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 20:51, November 23, 2010 (UTC)

Impressive.--NinjaSheik 20:53, November 23, 2010 (UTC)
I think that the first 3 of the last 4 are "weird". SimAnt 20:59, November 23, 2010 (UTC)
What do you mean and how do you suggest it can be improved? —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 21:26, November 23, 2010 (UTC)
the "of" eights and nines, and "of" mothers and sons... just doesn't sound cool enough. Also, what do angels have to do with anything in those chapters (besides the death of kisame). SimAnt 21:34, November 23, 2010 (UTC)
Konan. It happens just after Kisame. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:50, November 23, 2010 (UTC)
You broke them down into waay too many peices. I mean, the "of eights and nines" subarc is only 4 chapters. You could easily condense mother/sons & eights/nines into one subarc ... And keep in mind, during these chapters HE HAS NOT YET GAINED CONTROL OF THE NINE TAILS. Which means, there's not much jinchuriki training going on. It makes no sense to call it "Jinchuriki Training... Arc" I would say combine those two and call it "Naruto versus Nine Tails Arc". It should end when Kushina finishes her story, because that moment definitely provides closure for those string of events.
Also, you should combine the End of Akatsuki arc with the final preparations arc, because Konan vs. Madara was about Madara retrieving the Rinnigan so he could be BETTER PREPARED FOR WAR... and also, Kisame vs. Guy is about retreiving intel so Akatsuki could be BETTER PREPARED FOR WAR as well. Less clutter IMO. --Daleadil (talk) 23:17, November 23, 2010 (UTC)
I broke down the story into what seemed to be the most natural way, taking into account focus and storyline far more than length.
The Of Eights and Nines subarc focusses on Naruto getting to the Island Turtle and getting B to train him. Of Mothers and Sons focusses on the actual training B does with Naruto and Naruto's meeting with his mother. Two clearly different focusses and storylines. The entire arc as a whole focusses on Naruto gaining command of the Kyūbi's power, which he manages to do in the end. He cannot fully control it yet, but it's his to do with as he pleases. Regardless, it is still training as a jinchūriki. The battle between Naruto and the Nine-Tails is actually not that important to the storyline of the arc. It is all about Naruto accepting his fate as a jinchūriki and obtaining the power of his tailed beast.
Konan vs Madara fits far better with Guy vs Kisame than the war preparations that come afterwards. The Final Preparations arc clearly focusses on the preparations of both sides of the war, with each side displaying their war potential and making their plans for the first strikes.
As for your complaints, SimAnt. I kinda like the "of" in those names. They remind me of classic titles like Of Mice and Men. Then again, I am always open to suggestions ^^ Can you think of a better name, preferably without ruining the symbolism? —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 00:04, November 24, 2010 (UTC)
Oxs and Foxs? Meh, it's fine i guess :). SimAnt 00:22, November 24, 2010 (UTC)
Actually it's Oxen not Oxs. And it's Foxes not Foxs. KiumaruHamachi (talk) 00:26, November 24, 2010 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi
Why is there so much interest in coming up with new arcs as soon as humanly possible? Not only does whatever the arc end up being called turn out to be a poor choice, but the arbitrary divisions need to be rejiggered 'cause of hindsight and all that. People had to make Taka v Bee its own arc, "Kage Summit" was at some point "Hunting Sasuke" or some such, and "Fourth Great Shinobi World War" (now "Confining the Jinchūriki") was premature in its chosen name by several months. Are we supposed to be in a rush to do things so that we'll have something to do - as in correcting our mistakes - a few months from now? ~SnapperTo 01:08, November 24, 2010 (UTC)
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me personally, it's that my OCD senses are tingling. There's so much cool stuff going on, and its all being listed under "Confining the Jinchuriki Arc". Does that not bother you a little bit? Like when a guy makes a turn without using his blinker. That type of stuff drives me crazy --Daleadil (talk) 23:26, November 24, 2010 (UTC)
The Confining the Jinchūriki Arc is completely inadequate. Also, as you can see by my little list, I believe we just started a completely new arc with chapter 517. Besides, there's nothing wrong with checking if your current ways of working are as good as they seemed a year ago. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 23:53, November 24, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, let's start another arc page. What's the worst that can happened? --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 23:58, November 24, 2010 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi
We could loose coherence and co-operation among the editors and fall into a downward spiral of revert wars that will eventually lead to complete chaos. This is quite a major change we're proposing and we shouldn't do it without consensus or else we'll just end up with the same situation as now again. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 00:03, November 25, 2010 (UTC)
Didn't think of that. I'll just go with whatever the editors/admins go with. --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 00:06, November 25, 2010 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi
You're an editor too, you know. Your opinion counts as well. What do you think is the best solution? —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 00:14, November 25, 2010 (UTC)
Thank you Sho. Anyways, I think we should start a whole new arc page because we can't let the "Confining the Jinchuriki Arc" go on forever. My reasons for saying that is that, we might not see Naruto and Bee for awhile. well, I can't say "for awhile", I'd say, maybe... a page here and there but not every single chapter. I, personally, believe and think that we should make a new arc page and protect it so that no edit wars start. What do you think? --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 00:18, November 25, 2010 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi

ShounenSuki, I like it the way you split up the arcs. The sub arcs are also nice. I'd definitely vote to add them to the wiki aswell. In the end, it's the admins and higher ups decision. Sparxs77 (talk) 11:03, November 27, 2010 (UTC)

Preparations for War?

Now that the Surprise Attack Division and Surprise Attack and Diversion Platoon are in battle, aren't the preparations over? The war has clearly begun, IMO. Perhaps we should consider adding a new subsection to this article. --Daleadil (talk) 02:12, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

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