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Kabuto's case

Should we mention that chakra signatures can be altered by absorbing different chakra from multiple people, so that even a sensor can be fooled by the change? Noweeaboohoo (talk) 18:49, March 8, 2014 (UTC)

Bump. Noweeaboohoo (talk) 13:10, March 9, 2014 (UTC)
Do it yourself. It takes one sentence.--Elveonora (talk) 13:23, March 9, 2014 (UTC)
I wasn't giving somebody the order to do it, I was asking for opinions if it's worthwhile to add or not. I'm gonna add it as a first step. Noweeaboohoo (talk) 13:28, March 9, 2014 (UTC)

Gift of the Hermit Group

Is there any reason Gift of the Hermit Group is not under Non-cannon types?--Cosmikaze (talk) 19:59, April 2, 2014 (UTC)

Yes. The reason is, it's canon. Seelentau 愛 20:07, April 2, 2014 (UTC)

The Six Paths Chakra

so I've been asking myself this question this past month...can we or can we not say that there's another type of chakra known as the six paths chakra...--DARK ZER06 (talk) 17:54, May 14, 2014 (UTC)

There isn't, just people making **** up as they see fit, but I no longer care. Six Paths Chakra simply means Hagoromo's chakra, Six Paths Technique means Hagoromo's technique and so on.--Elveonora (talk) 19:28, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
Or you're wrong. • Seelentau 愛 19:59, May 14, 2014 (UTC)

then let me rephrase my question...can we categorize hagoromo's chakra as a whole other type of chakra...same thing we do with the bijuu or etc...or is it to soon to think this way...--DARK ZER06 (talk) 20:45, May 14, 2014 (UTC)

Nope.--Elveonora (talk) 21:23, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
His chakra is just special and powerful. We've been hearing about people with specially strong or unique chakra for the entire series. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:57, May 14, 2014 (UTC)

Six Paths Chakra: Round Two

Now we know about various people possessing Six Paths Chakra, and also that it enhances techniques to the point that they can harm Ten-Tails' jinchūriki (Madara and Kaguya) without apparently requiring them to be senjutsu. Any thoughts?--Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna JOA20 16:01, August 26, 2014 (UTC)

I don't think the term "Six Paths Chakra" was ever mentioned, was it? • Seelentau 愛 16:28, August 26, 2014 (UTC)
Sasuke mentioned it in this chapter while preparing his Chidori to attack Madara.--Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna JOA20 16:41, August 26, 2014 (UTC)
He calls it Rikudō no Sennin Chakura (Sage Chakra of the Six Paths) while explaining Madara's Limbo. Then he says Naruto should use his Sage Chakra in a sealing technique but that's a mistranslation. He actually says Sennin no Chikara (Sage Power) and when he readies his Chidori he uses the term Rikudō no Chikara (Six Paths Power). • Seelentau 愛 17:17, August 26, 2014 (UTC)
Ah, alright. Then it's Six Paths Power (六道の力, Rikudō no Chikara), while I thought it was Six Paths Chakra (六道のチャクラ, Rikudō no Chakura). Sorry for the trouble.--Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna JOA20 17:34, August 26, 2014 (UTC)
What does Kakashi say?--Elveonora (talk) 17:51, August 26, 2014 (UTC)
No idea, raw's not out yet. • Seelentau 愛 17:52, August 26, 2014 (UTC)
While the raws have yet to come out, the scans make him say "His (Obito's) dōjutsu/dōryoku was empowered by the Six Paths Power he gained!"--Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna JOA20 17:54, August 26, 2014 (UTC)

So if it truly is "six paths power" then Sasuke and Kakashi have the same power?--Elveonora (talk) 19:18, August 26, 2014 (UTC)

Probably. Their chakra turned black, so... • Seelentau 愛 19:30, August 26, 2014 (UTC)

Does Kakashi mention Naruto and Madara having Six Paths chakra (enabling flight) in 680, or is that also referring to Hagoromo's chakra (which Madara didn't technically have)?--BeyondRed (talk) 19:52, August 26, 2014 (UTC)

Kakashi did say that Naruto was able to fly just like Madara after gaining the Six Paths Power.--Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna JOA20 19:57, August 26, 2014 (UTC)
I think he calls it Rikudō no Chakura. • Seelentau 愛 20:08, August 26, 2014 (UTC)
Ugh, so how many different terms do we have? Some of them must be synonymous--Elveonora (talk) 21:10, August 26, 2014 (UTC)

Okay, was the Chidori and Raikiri confirmed to be black, or is that just an assumption? I'm confused. WindStar7125 WindStar7125 Task (Talk) (Contribs) 21:28, August 26, 2014 (UTC)

Yes, it's black. • Seelentau 愛 21:36, August 26, 2014 (UTC)
  • Rikudō no Sennin Chakura - mentioned by Sasuke
  • Rikudō no Chakura - mentioned by Kakashi
  • Sennin no Chikara - mentioned by Sasuke
  • Rikudō no Chikara - mentioned by Sasuke
  • Rikudō no Senjutsu - mentioned by Madara
  • Senninka - mentioned by Madara

Anything else? • Seelentau 愛 21:36, August 26, 2014 (UTC)

So it is black? Where did you get the confirmation? I'd like to know. Not doubting or ridiculing your statement or anything, just a question. WindStar7125 WindStar7125 Task (Talk) (Contribs) 21:42, August 26, 2014 (UTC)
It's black in the manga? o.ö • Seelentau 愛 21:47, August 26, 2014 (UTC)
Yea but so is Karin's hair in the manga. Shouldn't we wait to see what the anime or colored manga shows first? I mean I don't doubt it being black but... I thought we determined colors after the anime/colored manga shows, not decide from the b&w manga. WindStar7125 WindStar7125 Task (Talk) (Contribs) 21:52, August 26, 2014 (UTC)
Yes, but for now it's black. • Seelentau 愛 21:56, August 26, 2014 (UTC)

Okay, so allow my mind to wrap around this:

  • Rikudo no Sennin Chakura, Rikudo no Chakura and Rikudo no Chikara are likely to be the same thing
  • Sennin no Chikara is unspecified, refers to any Senjutsu power
  • Rikudo no Senjutsu is either the same as the first or a separate thing, this is what we need to figure out

Can you specify the context of each Seel?--Elveonora (talk) 21:55, August 26, 2014 (UTC)

Maybe tomorrow. • Seelentau 愛 21:56, August 26, 2014 (UTC)
Sure, anytime.--Elveonora (talk) 21:58, August 26, 2014 (UTC)
I think the main problem is that we don't know what the Six Paths are, if they're just short for "Rikudo Sennin" or something different. • Seelentau 愛 22:01, August 26, 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, I think @Elveo is right. Rikudo no Sennin Chakura (Sage of the Six Paths' chakra, mentioned by Sasuke when analyzing Limbo), Rikudo no Chakura (Six Paths Chakra, again mentioned by Sasuke when infusing it with his Chidori), and Rikudo no Chikara (Six Paths' power, mentioned by Kakashi after getting Obito's eyes) are probably the same thing. WindStar7125 WindStar7125 Task (Talk) (Contribs) 22:07, August 26, 2014 (UTC)

Alright, let's give it a try:

  • Senninka - Obito apparently used it in the staff he created from Black Zetsu. He got that power from Madara, it simply means Sage Transformation. Important note: Madara had not absorbed the tree at that time.
  • Rikudō no Senjutsu - Naruto obtained it after meeting Hagoromo and assembling all TB inside him. Madara said he possesses the same power. Since he didn't meet Hagoromo, it's impossible that the power comes from the Sage. Since Naruto never absorbed the Shinju, it's impossible that it comes from the tree, either. So the source of this technique/power are the 9TB.
  • Rikudō no Sennin Chakura - Sasuke says that this chakra can wound the limbo clone. Naruto used his TSB staff to inflict the wound, meaning that the TSB are made from this chakra.
  • Rikudō no Chikara - Sasuke starts his Chidori and says that he also uses the Six Paths Power. This is obviously whatever power Hagoromo gave him and what resulted in the crescent moon on his palm and the black Chidori. Kakashi most likely mentions it in the latest chapter, his Raikiri turns black, too.
  • Sennin no Chikara - Sasuke says that Naruto should prepare a technique using this power. It most likely refers to the sage power Naruto obtained.
  • Rikudō no Chakura - Kakashi says that this is the reason Naruto can fly, since Madara could do it too after obtaining this chakra. • Seelentau 愛 10:50, August 27, 2014 (UTC)

Additional note for Rikudō no Senjutsu: Maybe it's the part Hagoromo gave Naruto and inherited to Ashura (and in turn Hashirama). Madara stole it from Hashirama and Obito in turn from Madara. But then, Naruto would've already possessed it so there was no need for Hagoromo to give it to him... • Seelentau 愛 11:34, August 27, 2014 (UTC)

I would like to give my opinion on this.

First about the Six Paths. Every mention of Six Paths came from Madara and Obito. Obito after he became TT's Jinchuuriki, he said that he became the Second Sage of the Six Paths. Madara after sealing the TT in his body, said that this is the Six Paths' Power. Yet Kaguya who is the TT never call herself as such. Obito also said that the Sage left the boundary of humans when he became Jinchuuriki, although they were talking about Chibaku Tensei, a Rinnegan Power.

From this we can conclude that Madara and Obito believe that the Ten-Tails is Hagoromo's power. Now about the Sage himself, although he isn't a Jinchuuriki anymore, he still has the residual Chakra of the TT. So, when he gave his Chakra to Sasuke and Naruto, it was his Chakra and the TT residual Chakra. In turn, the TT's Chakra is Senjutsu.

For Obito, he had his own Uchiha+Senju Chakra, he had Residual TT Chakra and Madara's Chakra. That's enough for Kakashi to have Chakra similar to Sasuke's. In other words, for Obito and Madara the TT is a power belonged Hagoromo, and they called it SP power, in turn people like Kakashi started to call it the same as well. While for Sasuke who gained his power from the Sage of the Six Paths, he also calls it Six Paths.

So you can get this, Six Paths Power refers to everything Hagoromo/TT. And there are two things that fall under Six Paths Power. The First is Six Paths Chakra. The Second is Six Paths Sage Technique. Those with Rikudou Senjutsu also has SP Chakra, but the ones with SP Chakra doesn't have Rikudou Senjutsu.--MERCURIOUS (talk) 12:10, August 27, 2014 (UTC)

@Seel,

  • I'm sure Sage Transformation contextually meant TT jinch form, with the Sage referring to Hagoromo
  • Six Paths Sage Technique, yeah
  • Six Paths Sage Chakra seems to be the chakra that Six Paths Sage Technique uses
  • Six Paths Power is Sasuke's then
  • Sage Power refers to Senjutsu in general I would say
  • Six Paths Chakra I think is same as Six Paths Sage Chakra

So to sort it out:

  • Six Paths Sage Technique, Six Paths Sage Chakra, Six Paths Chakra are the same
  • Six Paths Power though appears to be different, since Sasuke can't fly
  • We need to know what Kakashi says in the latest chapter now--Elveonora (talk) 12:11, August 27, 2014 (UTC)

@MERC, what you say. So essentially we have Senjutsu TT chakra and non-Senjutsu TT chakra, seemingly--Elveonora (talk) 12:14, August 27, 2014 (UTC)

@Elve, Since TT is made of Senjutsu Chakra, then its residual Chakra is also Senjutsu.--MERCURIOUS (talk) 12:24, August 27, 2014 (UTC)
Possibly, but some people here don't want to hear about Sasuke having Senjutsu. Also if the all above are the same, then why Sasuke and Kakashi can't fly?--Elveonora (talk) 12:29, August 27, 2014 (UTC)
Not the same. When Sasuke gained the Yin Release power from Hagoromo, he gained the Six Paths Chakra (In his case Hagoromo's residual TT Chakra). In Kakashi's case he gained the Six Paths Chakra form Obito (This time from Madara's and the residual Chakra). But those who can fly, has something in common between them, which is the 9TB just like Seelentau said. In Naruto's case, Madara said that the Rikudou Senjutsu bloomed in his body. He had the 9TB Chakra and when Hagoromo gave him the Yang Power, there was some Six Paths Chakra (Which is the reason that it bloomed in his body). Long story short, The Rikudou Senjutsu didn't bloom in Sasuke's and Kakashi's body as there aren't enough Chakra.--MERCURIOUS (talk) 14:08, August 27, 2014 (UTC)
Right. So the 3 of us do agree that Sasuke and Kakashi use Senjutsu though, right? And in case Naruto transfers a little bit of each TBs' chakras to Sasuke and Kakashi, they would get SPS and be able to use TSB I suppose--Elveonora (talk) 14:12, August 27, 2014 (UTC)

I'm not gonna discuss this any further since I don't believe that we can say anything for sure yet, just in case you guys are missing my replies. Also, I don't think that Sasuke and Kakashi use Senjutsu. • Seelentau 愛 14:17, August 27, 2014 (UTC)

They manage to harm Madara and Kaguya and we were told only Senjutsu chakra works.--Elveonora (talk) 14:30, August 27, 2014 (UTC)
Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe, Minato said "only Senjutsu and Taijutsu works" because Madara's freaking black balls negate all Ninjutsu and not because his body himself negates Ninjutsu? • Seelentau 愛 16:46, August 27, 2014 (UTC)
How does taijutsu help against black orbs that turn you into dust?--Elveonora (talk) 16:54, August 27, 2014 (UTC)
@Seelentau, except you haven't noticed that (insert really long name for 'scorch' release jutsu here) did little if any damage at all (all we see is steam) whereas a senjutsu rasengan blows a huge hole in his back. Ninjutsu not working at all on the TT jinchuriki's body is heavily implied. I have more evidence, but I need to get to class. :P MangekyoSasuke (talk) 19:09, August 27, 2014 (UTC)
Well, I don't know about you lot @Mangekyou and @Elve, but, I watched Guy's fight with Madara and... whew... gonna take a huge leap here and... go ahead and declare taijutsu a winner. Furthermore, Minato was making the same warning they've made since they discovered TSB negates ninjutsu. Senjutsu is to counter the TSB and Taijutsu is to counter the Rinnegan's ability to absorb ninjutsu. That was specifically stated, but no one bothers going back past Minato's words to see why he said that. They'd rather stick their thumbs up their ass and pretend they know otherwise. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Rinnegan Sasuke 21:00, August 27, 2014 (UTC)
I simply second this. • Seelentau 愛 21:22, August 27, 2014 (UTC)

This is why i got banned on a forum.... People should know that six paths chakra is not senjutsu or naruto's mode that is a six path sage tehnique. Its alot of confusion since sasuke fans wants senjutsu for him... but i know already 2 japanease translators who said things are way different between this stuff...

Rikudou power/Rikudou chakra... Rikudou Senjutsu. Different stuff even tho they sound the same.Matianu.alexandruionut (talk) 21:37, August 27, 2014 (UTC)

Ummm, pretty sure Minato has never seen Madara absorb ninjutsu. He was on the other side of the battlefield in the instances where Madara did that, and if he thought only taijutsu would actually hurt, why did he attempt a rasengan aimed at him and not a shield (tsb) that Madara had (which he didn't)? MangekyoSasuke (talk) 21:38, August 27, 2014 (UTC)

Who said Minato saw Madara absorb ninjutsu? Like Fox-boss said, Strong-enough Physical attacks can damage a Rinnegan user and also a TT jinchuuriki. Plus, Minato used a Sage Mode empowered Rasengan (only to get his other arm cut off). WindStar7125 WindStar7125 Task (Talk) (Contribs) 00:53, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
TTF seemed to be implying that Minato only said to use senjutsu specifically for the tsbs, and that ONLY taijutsu would work on Madara himself. Its true that Madara can absorb ninjutsu, but how would Minato know that? MangekyoSasuke (talk) 02:36, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
Because, if you bothered to read, they pass information around several times about Obito and Madara's capabilities. For example, when the Alliance attacked Madara and Obito atop the Ten-Tails, Naruto had Rock Lee attack Madara because he would just absorb any ninjutsu they used against him. Naruto and his allies have repeated this information to each other so many times in this war, including after the Edo Kage's arrive, its astounding that people actually believe the Ten-Tails jinchūriki's body is immune to ninjutsu when nowhere in the entire manga is that ever stated. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Rinnegan Sasuke 04:23, August 28, 2014 (UTC)

Since @MangekyouSasuke can't read the manga, apparently, and @Elveonora needs physical evidence, I'll just post the quotes and the chapters here:

  1. The Senjutsu-counter was attributed directly to the TSB, not the jinchūriki itself. In chapter 642, all of their ninjutsu continues to be erased by Obito's TSB until Gamakichi uses Senjutsu on them and it is unable to be erased. From there, Tobirama then says: "The Senjutsu attack by the Myobokuzan toad wasn't erased!" From then on, Senjutsu was part of their attacks on the Ten-Tails' jinchūriki: both Obito and Madara. It is pointless using ordinary ninjutsu from then on because the TSB's can simply erase them. Minato later confirms this when Guy steps in to fight Madara in Chapter 668: "Don't touch those black orbs or the staff!" To which Kakashi tells Minato that his Senjutsu might work against them, prompting him to use Senjutsu: Rasengan.
  2. Later, when Madara is completely revived (though, like I said, Naruto had Lee employ this earlier), Hashirama notes that Madara absorbs Sasuke's Amaterasu. This is chapter 657 and Hashirama says, with great shock, "He can absorb ninjutsu!" Naruto says immediately after that it is pointless to use ninjutsu on Madara. His exact words: "Sasuke, its useless using ninjutsu on him!" This is before Madara becomes the Ten-Tails jinchūriki, proving he had resistance to ninjutsu before he became the host.

Then after Madara becomes the jinchūriki, a strategy is conceived to deal with him: Senjutsu for the TSB and taijutsu to avoid the ninjutsu absorbing affects Madara has (strategy developed around 668). This nonsense that the Ten-Tails jinchūriki is immune to ninjutsu is absurd and not founded in any facts whatsoever. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Rinnegan Sasuke 04:44, August 28, 2014 (UTC)

I'm not saying you are wrong. But I still consider the possibility open that only Senjutsu chakra is damaging to TT jinch. I don't remember the chapter, but there was some talk about natural energy working against natural energy, what was the context of that?--Elveonora (talk) 10:07, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
If I recall correctly, the part about Madara absorbing Amaterasu was mistranslated in all instances... • Seelentau 愛 10:27, August 28, 2014 (UTC)

http://narutobase.net/forums/showthread.php?t=537667KiritoLevel96Alicization (talk) 19:55, September 7, 2014 (UTC)KiritoLevel96AlicizationSharingan Triple

it's written in its section that This type of chakra can be acquired by combining the chakra of both Hagoromo's sons, Indra and Asura...this is false...because madara would have otherwise gained this chakra the moment he awakened rinnegan...and also nagato & obito would have it too the moment they had his eyes...hagoromo only said that merging his sons' chakra would awaken HIS chakra...not six paths chakra...am I not right? --DARK ZER06 (talk) 14:33, September 17, 2014 (UTC)

Gift of the Hermit Group again

shouldn't this part be in the non-canon section...since it's anime & game only...of course according to its only know jutsu debut info...I mean where did it appear in the manga... --DARK ZER06 (talk) 11:33, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

It's canon, it's mentioned in the third databook. • Seelentau 愛 11:33, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

how is it that it's mentioned in the databook but does NOT have any appearances in the manga itself :|... --DARK ZER06 (talk) 11:35, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

It has. You just don't see it. • Seelentau 愛 12:00, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

OK where?... --DARK ZER06 (talk) 12:04, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

When Kakuzu destroys the doors of the fire temple. • Seelentau 愛 12:09, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

tell me the exact chapter & page that the chakra or its relevant jutsu has appeared...cuz I checked that arc & didn't C shit... --DARK ZER06 (talk) 12:14, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

As I said, you don't see it. It's not visible to the eye and it's not mentioned in the manga. No jutsu, no visible chakra, nothing. Just that term from the databook. • Seelentau 愛 12:15, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

so V R prioritizing the databook over the manga...? --DARK ZER06 (talk) 12:22, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

& also the last time I remember...the data book is used to explain the things that have appeared in the manga...not the unseen & unheard... --DARK ZER06 (talk) 12:24, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

The hermit gift chakra was used to reinforce the monk temple gate I believe--Elveonora (talk) 12:27, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
V R?
Exactly, Elve. See this for more. • Seelentau 愛 12:30, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

V R = we are thanx...got my answer... --DARK ZER06 (talk) 12:33, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

Why all of you guys make it such complicated's case ?

I mean wouldn't it be much more simple if SOSP's charka was just special kind of charka being so much potent that it can harm Kaguya. It could be just passive ability of it's chakra drawing nature energy to it but without molding/stabilizing them. Nature energy would be drawn for short amount of time damaging Kaguya.

Also Naruto, Sasuke, Kakashi had all SOSP's chakra while only Naruto due to Tailed beasts's chakra in himself which is pure nature energy at top of SOSP's chakra make him able to mold it and got SOSP's Sage chakra.

Also Juubi Jinchurki could be damaged by just Sage chakra, normal charka with nature energy molded.

In short:

Normal chakra -> SOSP's chakra(special powered up chakra)


Sage chakra(from Sage mode)-> SOSP's Sage chakra(from Senjutsu of six paths)

I hope it would be understood like that.

What do you think ?

--TTHHagoromoOotsutsuki (talk) 15:06, September 21, 2014 (UTC)

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