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Certainty

Are you sure it's an exact flip of the signals? I got the feeling that the signals were just completely mixed up. Additionally, if it was so predictable, then it wouldn't be hard to figure out for anyone, really.

Lightning Release - Presumed

Shouldn't this jutsu (as in Tsunade's case) be classified as Lightning Release~Presumed? L Mars (talk) 23:46, March 15, 2010 (UTC)



Umm I think that this should not be considered as lightning release. We all know, that humans have an little amount of electricity naturally in us, and with precise chakra control Tsunade could maybe focus this electricity in one point.

So that I think this should be considered as medical ninjutsu, I'd say :D

Unosuke Tsukasa, The Sage of the Human Anatomy xD

Images

Isn't three images a bit too much for a page this short? --ShounenSuki (talk | contribs) 21:21, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

I just removed them before I saw your post. I agree, 3 is a bit too much. DragonBallZ (talk) 21:23, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
Well yeah but no one image can explain what is actually happening, at least not the images presented. If the middle image actually showed the electrical pulses moving like in the anime then it'd work. ¥ Super Novice Talk 2 Me ¥ 21:24, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
Agreed. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:25, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

Lightning Release

Shouldn't we add (Presumably) to the Lightning Release thing just like we have done with Tsunade's infobox? I have tried to do it, but it didn't look well. May someone with more experiencie than me do it?--Kind-Hearted-One (talk) 21:25, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

Debate Part II

I am reopening this discussion because it seems to me this is an issue that needs to be settled. This is the only substantial evidence that lends credibility to the theory that Tsunade possesses Lightning Release nature. However, from the sounds of the description, all she is doing is converting her chakra into electrical impulses to disturbed the impulses of another body. All Lighting Release we've seen have had the following traits;

  1. Have had some sort of outside effect; e.g, releasing a shockwave, creating some sort of protection, numbing a foe by channeling lighting chakra through a blade, etc.
  2. They all utilize bright blue chakra. Black in the rare case of Black Lightning.
As you can already see, this technique possesses none of those traits. It has no outward effect, whatsoever. That's not to say Lightning Release can't produce unseen effects, its just that we haven't seen it do so, so then, why do we assume this to be Lightning Release? I believe this is speculation in its best, as even the databook it is mentioned in does not classify it as Lightning Release. The Trivia note, in my opinion, can stay, as it does raise some questions, but I believe that, until we have better evidence or see other Lightning Release that do similar things, we should remove Lightning Release from both this technique and Tsunade. To further support this, listing this technique as Lightning type, despite the fact that we don't know such for sure is sparking absurd debates, now, about whether her chakra color makes her a lightning user (see here), when we're not supposed to be inserting speculation to begin with. What say the rest of you? ~ Ten Tailed Fox
Yamagakure Symbol
04:42, November 3, 2012 (UTC)
So, because we've never seen lightning do something like that since then, we're supposed to remove it? It is possible that Tsunade was acting as nothing more than a defibrillator and Kishimoto never intended it to be lightning release and nothing more than an electrical impulse, but still, the premise is faulty.--Cerez365
Hyūga Symbol
(talk) 11:40, November 3, 2012 (UTC)
  • Converting one's chakra into electrical impulses fits with the description of Lightning Release

"Have had some sort of outside effect; e.g, releasing a shockwave"

  • Tsunade shining in the latest episodes

"Creating some sort of protection"

  • True only in some cases

"Numbing a foe"

  • Raikage's armor doesn't harm anyone

"They all utilize bright blue chakra" "The color of a chakra aura is not proof and has never been proof of a nature type"

  • I see a self-contradiction

--Elveonora (talk) 19:58, November 3, 2012 (UTC)

Per Dantman on Tsunade's page - ""confirm" is when someone uses an actual known lightning release jutsu, the databook says a jutsu they use is lightning release, or the databook/series actually says they have lightning release. Colour is not confirmation. Frankly I wouldn't even accept presumed based on that alone." This technique is in a databook and is not classified as lightning release and has no qualifiers of lightning release except that it seems to utilize electricity. As Cerez pointed out on Tsunade's page, however, this may not be lightning release at all, but rather, Tsunade using her chakra as a defibrillator, which would fit with her medic-nin theme. ~ Ten Tailed Fox
Yamagakure Symbol
01:00, November 4, 2012 (UTC)

Databooks aren't definitive, this is no way an attempt at disproving "facts" just saying that they are valid only for as long until a point when more "up-to-date" information is provided. With that being said, the "canonical" sources doesn't list the technique as a Lightning Release, yet it may be one because it kinda fits the description. What about this? http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Tsunade#Further_proof_of_Raiton Also the databook makes it clear that a conversion takes place, thus nature transformation--Elveonora (talk) 02:12, November 4, 2012 (UTC)

Well, Elve, we can't just ignore databooks when it is convenient and use them in all other cases. If it doesn't classify it as Lightning Release while classifying others as their respective releases, then obviously Kishi doesn't want it to be lightning release. Also, the notion that he didn't list it as one because it clearly indicated a conversion is bogus as, if that were the case, he wouldn't classify other techniques that are obviously one element or another. Furthermore, your link doesn't hold up. I can see there that they went to check the RAWs for that chapter and, apparently, nothing came out of it. English translators, especially for scan sites like that one, like to spruce things up or even add things that weren't there in the RAW to make it more exciting. If the RAWs revealed it was electricity, that's one thing. If they don't, then it, again, is baseless speculation. Until we have definitive proof, do not list Tsunade or this technique as Lightning Release. Everyone was so supportive of waiting on Obito being Tobi until definitive proof was stated, so I find it kind of a double standard that you guys want to jump to conclusions concerning Tsunade's nature type when nothing definitive has been given? ~ Ten Tailed Fox
Yamagakure Symbol
02:34, November 4, 2012 (UTC)

I agree that it should be either gone or stay, because if this wiki ever had any credibility, it was for providing the most accurate information. Something can't be "presumably" correct or incorrect. How come Orochimaru doesn't have "presumably Fire Release" then? :P--Elveonora (talk) 17:33, November 4, 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. Edit: Left the trivia note, as discussed. It lets readers know that, while the technique uses electrical properties that may hint at Lightning Release, we have no definite source or anything that proves that it is. Should suffice until we know more. ~ Ten Tailed Fox
Yamagakure Symbol
19:47, November 4, 2012 (UTC)

Hang in there, Orochimaru isn't listed as presumably having Fire Release because his technique in particular made no mention of chakra being converted to fire to ignite the technique. Tsunade is essentially doing an out-of-body version of what A does. Removing her presumed would be like saying that A's armour doesn't use Lightning Release. The "presumed" tag was the compromise between acknowledging the similar effect of the techniques, while showing that it's not something definitely set in stone. Unfortunately, sometimes we have to disregard a few things from the databooks. If we only ever went by them, there are quite a few techniques which wouldn't have had articles until databooks were released, because they wouldn't have been named in the manga, and a few incorrect things would also be listed differently due to how the story develops, examples include: Hashirama's Wood Release would be listed as a hiden, not as kekkei genkai; Rasenshuriken would be still listed as a short range technique, several of Deidara's technique wouldn't be listed as Explosion Release; Storm Release wouldn't have been listed as being made of water and lightning from day one like it was, it would have been listed only when the second fanbook came out, confirming what everyone and their mother already knew. We need to take in account the entire series, not just what is explicitly said. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:56, November 4, 2012 (UTC)

I also believe that she can use Lightning Release, but the decision must be made by the majority. I'm completely against a "presumed" status, as that shows off that we aren't sure ourselves, thus that we provide a "possibly correct" information.--Elveonora (talk) 22:52, November 4, 2012 (UTC)

And before I posted anything here, the only other people discussing this necromanced topic were you, TTF and Cerez, given that Cerez has only posted once. Quite a majority. Just because the databook didn't put a "Lightning Release" prefix on it, it doesn't mean that it's automatically not a Lightning Release. Until the war arc, none of Temari's canonical techniques had Wind Release in their name, but they were quite obviously Wind Release. This discussion is a classic case of reviving an old topic despite there being no new information to be added to the discussion. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:17, November 4, 2012 (UTC)

From your replies it sounds like you are quite confident. The only reason why I brought this dead topic up is because (as I said) I believe the aura to have been meant by the animators as such, and not just a random effect. Fox disagree it be any kind of release. If there's enough evidence (not counting my assumption from a non-canonical case) and similar things have happened in the past, that means we have enough proof to list it as such without a doubt. Just done reading Suki's translation, and there are quite a few mentions. For the reference:

"An attack that severs the control threads with a flash of lightning"
  • Note is clearly says lightning, there's none in a human body (correct me if I'm wrong)
"As soon as strike of the hand lands, electricity is poured into the enemy's nervous system, severing the signals!!"
  • This can't be done with the nerve discharge (you know biology I guess, maybe you can explain) I think he would get just cramps
"By transforming the chakra within one's body and giving it the properties of electricity, one creates an electric field"
  • Fits with Raiton and also "electric field" and a lighting aura sounds similar to me
  • Also this is purely speculation on my part, but Kabuto uses Earth Release, this could explain how it had little effect on him--Elveonora (talk) 00:08, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not discrediting this particular entry in the databook, I'm just pointing out that the lack of a Lightning Release prefix in it doesn't mean it's not. I too believe it counts as Lightning Release. I just don't think that the aura Tsunade displayed in the anime has anything to do with it. The Earth Release argument is non-sense though. Kabuto was still affected by the technique, he just re-learned to move his body according to the flipped out control. There's no evidence he was using Earth Release chakra flow for anything at that moment, and even if he did, lightning beats earth in Naruto, he'd be in a disadvantage. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:47, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

I see. For the rest, Pokemon elements confused me, thought it in a reverse to be true for the second. Well, I guess we can't do anything about the presumed status, since it was a "compromise" that has been made. Unless Fox or others have anything to say in regards to that, Edo Topic technique is being released, again... (for now)--Elveonora (talk) 02:56, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

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