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==Asura with SPSM/Power from his dad?==
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This may be ('''very''') late and I apologize, I didn't know how to add comments in the talk page. I just want to know why Asura is added as a user of Six Paths Sage Mode? Yeah I agree that he uses Six Paths Senjutsu, but Six Paths Sage Mode? What? Isn't that mode unique to Naruto and Naruto alone? Six Paths Sage Mode is the result of Naruto combining the Six Paths Chakra he was given from Hagoromo with his own Senjutsu chakra, hence the toad eyes being part of the cross pupils. One can assume that Asura didn't have Sage Mode. That leads me to my next point, when was it said that Hagoromo gave Asura? I feel like what Hagoromo said is being misinterpreted. Can we please discuss about this? --[[User:UltimaDude|UltimaDude]] ([[User talk:UltimaDude|talk]]) 01:04, March 17, 2016 (UTC)
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:Considering that both of Asura's incarnates (Naruto and Hashirama) don't inherently come with Six Paths Senjutsu, means Asura didn't either, but he certainly exhibited it later on as of his usage of Truth Seeking Balls--[[User:Elveonora|'''Elve''']] {{Mod}} <sup><small>[[User talk:Elveonora|Talk Page]]|[[Special:Contributions/Elveonora|Contribs]]</small></sup> 18:36, March 17, 2016 (UTC)
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::Neither Asura nor Naruto were able to use Wood Release like Hashirama could, so mentioning Naruto and Hashirama as to say why he was given power is not a really good argument. Asura is the direct descendant of Hagoromo, so why is it hard to believe that he has his own SPS, just a watered-down of Hagoromo's? It's just like Indra's MS looking like a watered-down version of Hagoromo's Rinnegan--[[User:UltimaDude|UltimaDude]] ([[User talk:UltimaDude|talk]]) 20:21, March 17, 2016 (UTC)
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:::Because SPS isn't an innate Asura incarnate thing, yet Asura came to possess it eventually as of his usage of TSB. Wood Release didn't have anything with Hashirama having been an Asura incarnate as far as we know. Hagoromo said he had given power only to Asura which was a mistake corrected by giving power to both of his 'sons' this time. People argue that this power mentioned given to Asura was leadership of Ninshuu, but if that's the case, then he would have made Naruto and Sasuke both successors to Ninshuu and tell them to spread the teachings, but instead he gave them both actual powers, speaking in the same context as giving power to Asura was mentioned.--[[User:Elveonora|'''Elve''']] {{Mod}} <sup><small>[[User talk:Elveonora|Talk Page]]|[[Special:Contributions/Elveonora|Contribs]]</small></sup> 13:33, March 18, 2016 (UTC)
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::::So what if it isn't an innate Asura thing? It still goes with the Sage's "''body''" thing as all of his incarnates have. He is the son of the SoSP. Indra didn't get butthurt because Hagoromo gave Asura some of his power, it was because he was given leadership of Ninshuu. It was that decision that Hagoromo regretted. You can use multiple meanings of a word in the same phrase. Hagoromo had no reason to give either of his sons his actual power, just like he had no reason to give Naruto and Sasuke leadership of Ninshuu--[[User:UltimaDude|UltimaDude]] ([[User talk:UltimaDude|talk]]) 19:30, March 18, 2016 (UTC)
   
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Well the context pretty much implies it was an actual power. Wouldn't make much sense for someone to reference spaghetti but talk about eggs in the sentence.--[[User:Elveonora|'''Elve''']] {{Mod}} <sup><small>[[User talk:Elveonora|Talk Page]]|[[Special:Contributions/Elveonora|Contribs]]</small></sup> 09:51, March 19, 2016 (UTC)
== Jinchūriki status revisited ==
 
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:What he said is still being taken out-of-context. If Hagoromo really gave Asura, power then he would of said so straight up. But he only mentions handing over the leadership of Ninshuu to Asura and Asura's power blossoming. It was the former that started to whole Indra vs Asura feud and it is that Hagoromo was referring to when mentioning power in regards to his sons--[[User:UltimaDude|UltimaDude]] ([[User talk:UltimaDude|talk]]) 18:19, March 19, 2016 (UTC)
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::Hagoromo was talking about having given power to Naruto and Sasuke stating that it had been a mistake to give power to just Asura and giving power to Sasuke was a correction of said mistake.--[[User:Elveonora|'''Elve''']] {{Mod}} <sup><small>[[User talk:Elveonora|Talk Page]]|[[Special:Contributions/Elveonora|Contribs]]</small></sup> 18:29, March 19, 2016 (UTC)
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:::He gave Asura power, as in authority of Ninshuu, which is what he regretted. Not to mention, Hagoromo didn't say he give the '''same''' to Naruto as he supposedly did with Asura. Hagoromo had absolutely no reason to give Asura some of his power. He wanted one of his sons to be his successor of Ninshuu and he chose Asura, which made Indra butthurt, and thus started the brother's feud.--[[User:UltimaDude|UltimaDude]] ([[User talk:UltimaDude|talk]]) 19:28, March 19, 2016 (UTC)
   
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Chapters 692, 693--[[User:Elveonora|'''Elve''']] {{Mod}} <sup><small>[[User talk:Elveonora|Talk Page]]|[[Special:Contributions/Elveonora|Contribs]]</small></sup> 14:33, March 20, 2016 (UTC)
There's a difference between "playing it safe" and playing it dumb. ''''Ignoring the obvious''' resemblances to Naruto's Tailed Beast Mode, from almost identical pattern, fox ears, fox tails and whiskers, Ashura was using either '''Tailed Beast Balls''' or '''Truth Seeking Balls''', both of which are '''Tailed Beast Skills''' and '''require Tailed Beast Chakra'''. So I must ask, why is there a doubt that he was a jinchuuriki or a pseudo? It's indisputable.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:18, August 1, 2014 (UTC)
 
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:My point still stands. It was Hagoromo's decision to give Asura the leadership of Ninshuu that started the feud and him giving Naruto and Sasuke some of his power that continued the feud until it ended--[[User:UltimaDude|UltimaDude]] ([[User talk:UltimaDude|talk]]) 16:55, March 20, 2016 (UTC)
:How about waiting until Naruto shows his new transformation? We'll surely know more about it than now. Less work to do, less chances of false information. Case solved.--[[File:Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna.svg|15px]] [[User:JOA20|'''JOA''']][[User talk:JOA20|''20'']] 19:22, August 1, 2014 (UTC)
 
::Indra shows off Susanoo, gets listed as Mangekyou Sharingan user. Ashura shows off Tailed Beast Mode look-like and either Tailed Beast Balls or Truth Seeking Balls, doesn't get listed as a jinchuuriki. Wut? We should approach things equally, not by nitpick--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:25, August 1, 2014 (UTC)
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::Can we also go back to the other part of the question about whether Asura even has Six Paths Sage Mode? Hagoromo is a confirmed user of Six Paths Senjutsu, but not Six Paths Sage Mode. Who's to say Asura can't have it in some other undefined way like his father?--[[User:BeyondRed|BeyondRed]] ([[User talk:BeyondRed|talk]]) 03:11, March 21, 2016 (UTC)
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:::@UltimaDude, there's a thing such as reading from context. Doesn't make sense to talk about actual powers given to Naruto and Sasuke in relation to Ninshuu leadership that was given to Asura. Ninshuu is not a power, I thought Asura's philosophy was 'Love' to achieve peace while it was Indra's 'Power' so wouldn't make sense for Hagoromo to call Ninshuu leadership power, since the reason Asura was chosen instead is because of love philosophy in the first place. Hence it's quite obvious that Hagoromo meant having given an actual power to Asura. @Beyond, the two ways to get Six Paths Senjutsu is either to be a Ten-Tails jinchuuriki or be blessed by Hagoromo's power, Asura wasn't Ten-Tails jinchuuriki so just like Naruto who got blessed and got Six Paths Sage Mode, so must have been Asura.--[[User:Elveonora|'''Elve''']] {{Mod}} <sup><small>[[User talk:Elveonora|Talk Page]]|[[Special:Contributions/Elveonora|Contribs]]</small></sup> 11:02, March 21, 2016 (UTC)
::You want to put Asura as a jinchūriki of Kurama, right? Well, I see nothing wrong with putting him as a pseudo-jinchūriki (though we have no info on which tailed beasts), since as you say TSB/TBB require tailed beast chakra, but to say that it's undoubtedly Kurama is a bit speculative in my eyes.--[[File:Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna.svg|15px]] [[User:JOA20|'''JOA''']][[User talk:JOA20|''20'']] 19:30, August 1, 2014 (UTC)
 
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:Except that you're taking things out-of-context. It doesn't make sense for Hagoromo to talk about giving Asura some of his actual power and regret that it caused his son's feud when such a thing happen. '''Read between the lines'''. Authority is considered power and it is that power that Hagoromo gave to Asura, not some of his actual power. Hagoromo giving Asura actual power wouldn't make any sense if he himself said that Asura's own power blossomed and it was because he got help from his friends and allies. I agree with BeyondRed. It makes no sense whatsoever to have Asura as a user of SPSM, if he doesn't have/wasn't shown with a chakra cloak and crossed pupils. Asura can use SPS with his own power, just like his dad, since his dad is the freaking Sage of Six Paths. It is just like how Indra can use Perfect Susanoo with only his MS--[[User:UltimaDude|UltimaDude]] ([[User talk:UltimaDude|talk]]) 19:33,March 21, 2016 (UTC)
:::Not Kurama, only jinchuuriki.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:31, August 1, 2014 (UTC)
 
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So are we going to continue the discussion? --[[User:UltimaDude|UltimaDude]] ([[User talk:UltimaDude|talk]]) 21:02, April 14, 2016 (UTC)
::::That would mean Asura had a tailed beast sealed into himself. Pseudo would be fine with me, but let's see what the others think.--[[File:Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna.svg|15px]] [[User:JOA20|'''JOA''']][[User talk:JOA20|''20'']] 19:33, August 1, 2014 (UTC)
 
   
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== Species ==
Still too early. You guys know my answer: We wait. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 19:53, August 1, 2014 (UTC)
 
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He's mostly human, genetically speaking and physically speaking he looks like a normal human. Shouldn't we classify him as just a human? A hybrid is an offspring from two distinct species and Hagoromo was both human and alien due to Tenji and Kaguya. Since Hagoromo is part human, regardless of whether or not he had an offspring with an Otsutsuki or human, his offspring would not be a hybrid.[[User:Cloudtheavenger|Cloudtheavenger]] ([[User talk:Cloudtheavenger|talk]]) 03:08, May 22, 2016 (UTC)
:Just as early as Indra's spiral eyes being his Mangekyou Sharingan. Yet, that one passed.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 20:00, August 1, 2014 (UTC)
 
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:I believe a child gets 50% genes from each parent, so Asura and Indra each had 50% of Hagoromo's genes and he was half alien and I think 25% of someone's genes not being human still makes them hybrids.--[[User:Elveonora|'''Elve''']] {{Mod}} <sup><small>[[User talk:Elveonora|Talk Page]]|[[Special:Contributions/Elveonora|Contribs]]</small></sup> 10:43, May 22, 2016 (UTC)
:: "''The tomoe pattern is different. That is... Mangekyō Sharingan.''" Tobirama's words. Indra had a Sharingan. Spiral pattern is consistent with that of Tobirama's description of what a Mangekyō is. Then Indra was shown with Susanoo. Sealed its fate. No. It was not too early. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Rinnegan Sasuke.svg|20px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 02:08, August 2, 2014 (UTC)
 
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::You guys do realize that they called Hagoromo and Hamura humans multiple times in the last episode? • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 11:09, May 22, 2016 (UTC)
:::How is this any earlier? If someone were to use genjutsu, we would list him as genjutsu user. If someone were to use taijutsu, we would list him as a user of such. When someone uses Tailed Beast Skill, he is a jinchuuriki... except when it's Ashura, cause derp--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 11:19, August 2, 2014 (UTC)
 
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:::Yes and Hagoromo and Hamura had no idea their mom came from the sky. They were born among humans to walk with humans. It seems like the only reason it's thought by them and other people that they look different and have powers is because of chakra fruit that Kaguya ate. Later on Hagoromo and Hamura too distant themselves from humankind, with the whole 'Hamura destroy humankind if they start to abuse chakra for bad things' so Hagoromo and Hamura being labeled human by Gamamaru is because they have no idea about Kaguya's origin, Gamamaru says it himself, all he knows is that she came from the sky.--[[User:Elveonora|'''Elve''']] {{Mod}} <sup><small>[[User talk:Elveonora|Talk Page]]|[[Special:Contributions/Elveonora|Contribs]]</small></sup> 11:37, May 22, 2016 (UTC)
   
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== Wasn't his name 'Ashura'? ==
We wait. Plain and simple. Please try to contain your omniscience.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 14:30, August 2, 2014 (UTC)
 
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I remember reading the manga on mangastream and he was always called: Ashura; why does the article has the name Asura instead of Ashura? Just really curious! --[[User:MsIsamisa|&#42;MsIsamisa]] ([[User talk:MsIsamisa|talk]]) 02:42, June 23, 2016 (UTC)
::::We don't know that it's a Tailed Beast Skill. We assume it based on previous depictions of a Tailed Beast Skill. But it could easily be something else. When do you (and many others) understand that the manga is in its final phase and there are things we can't simply explain right now? • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 15:23, August 2, 2014 (UTC)
 
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:[[Talk:Asura Ōtsutsuki/Archive 1#Ashura vs Asura|See here]]. [[User:Jacce|Jacce]] | [[User talk:Jacce|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jacce|Contributions]] 04:56, June 23, 2016 (UTC)
   
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== Wind Affinity ==
Considering all the crazy that's been going on around lately and the fact that Gaara is now listed as Magnet user along with sand being Magnet, I hope no one will oppose if I list Ashura as a jinchuuriki, because unlike vague magnet-sand connections, there's actual evidence for this one. If something vague can pass as a fact, I think actual evidence should be taken into consideration and presented as such, and that is:
 
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Can we say his affinity is wind (anime only)? It's well known people have an easier time learning their affinity than others.[[User:Cloudtheavenger|Cloudtheavenger]] ([[User talk:Cloudtheavenger|talk]]) 23:15, June 30, 2016 (UTC)
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:Ok... And? Sasuke first learned Fire, but in the anime, his affinity is Lightning...--[[User:BerserkerPhantom|BerserkerPhantom]] ([[User talk:BerserkerPhantom|talk]]) 23:30, June 30, 2016 (UTC)
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::He was taught by Fugaku meanwhile Asura tried all the elements and only could use Wind.[[User:Cloudtheavenger|Cloudtheavenger]] ([[User talk:Cloudtheavenger|talk]]) 05:43, July 1, 2016 (UTC)
   
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== Asura's Rasengan ==
* Close to identical pattern of said battle avatar to Naruto's TBB, with the only differences being those prayer beads around its neck and ribs
 
* It has tails (figure lol, Tailed Beast), fox ears and whiskers
 
* It uses either Tailed Beasts Balls or Truth Seeking Balls, irrelevant which, considering both are Tailed Beast Skills, thus require TB chakra
 
* Hashirama didn't have this, despite having been Ashura incarnate, yet Naruto does have similar thing, save extra head and arms... the major difference between Hashirama and Naruto is that the latter is a jinchuuriki, thus logical conclusion is that Ashura was one as well for having this
 
* Ashura, Indra and Kurama's chakras are required to revive Hagoromo as of his words, from that is suggested that Ashura had Kurama's chakra, may have been born with it
 
* More evidence I mentioned in the forum thread, too lazy too look it up
 
Compelling enough, isn't it?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:20, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
 
   
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I admit [http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/naruto/images/f/fe/Asura%27s_Wind_Release.png/revision/latest?cb=20160707113315 this] and [http://i.imgur.com/M7VqQfa.png?1 this] techniques are wind release, but [http://i.imgur.com/iRVR8eP.png?1 this] technique in episode 468 is clearly [[Rasengan]] variation. Should we add Rasengan to his techniques, what do you think?--[[User:Mecha Naruto|Mecha Naruto]] ([[User talk:Mecha Naruto|talk]]) 15:21, July 21, 2016 (UTC)
Please :( --[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:50, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
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:Yes. He clearly used Rasengan there. {{User: WindStar7125/LongSig}} 15:22, July 21, 2016 (UTC)
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::^ What he said. He's an anime-only user of Rasengan <small>(Studio Pierrot were cheap and lazy to put that in)</small> --'''''[[User:SuperSajuuk|Sa]][[User talk:SuperSajuuk|ju]][[Special:Contributions/SuperSajuuk|uk]]''''' 15:22, July 21, 2016 (UTC)
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:::Cerez has a point, even if I disagree. Maaaan, I hate the anime sometimes... {{User: WindStar7125/LongSig}} 19:19, July 22, 2016 (UTC)
   
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==Asura's powers==
I agree it's more than likely Ashura was a jinchūriki. As the leader of Ninshū and the son of Hagoromo, it's entirely possible that the bijū all contributed portions of their chakra to Ashura, thus explaining the humanoid avatar that resembles a bijū. The fact that Ashura was seen using Bijūdama seems to me as a clear indicator above all. I support listing Ashura as a jinchūriki but leaving his bijū ambiguous.--[[User:Reliops|Reliops]] ([[User talk:Reliops|talk]]) 16:34, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
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Shouldnt the six paths yin power and six paths yang power be added to his jutsu list. ok, honestly we never really saw him do anything amazing that has anything to do with said powers, but hagoromo did leave all his power to him which includes the power of yin and yang. also these are the same powers he seperated between naruto and sasuke as he did not want a repeat of what happenned asura and indra. --[[User:Me1|Me1]] ([[User talk:Me1|talk]]) 21:21,July 21, 2016 (UTC)
:Finally common sense, spread the word brother--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 16:49, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
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:The Six Paths Yin and Yang powers are just the seals on the hands, not the same as having Yin Release and Yang Release, which Asura should now have. Also, from we've seen, the seals appear to just be a temporary gift that goes back to Hagoromo once they're used.--[[User:BeyondRed|BeyondRed]] ([[User talk:BeyondRed|talk]]) 01:53, July 22, 2016 (UTC)
::I don't like picking sides, but I'm with Elveonora on this one (I thought that the jinchuriki status was already added xD). The whole '''waiting''' game just seems as a pathetic excuse, no offense >.< I've been telling that [[Steam Ninjutsu]] is not the same as [[Steam Armour]] a long time ago, and look, it was confirmed.. The whole waiting game just throws off the wiki. Its better to add something and later change if there's more confirmation than to not add anything at all, but its just my opinion.--[[User:Omojuze|Omojuze]] ([[User talk:Omojuze|talk]]) 17:02, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
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::^What he said. That would just be adding misinterpreted speculation. {{User: WindStar7125/LongSig}} 01:59, July 22, 2016 (UTC)
   
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== Six paths sage mode ==
Exactly, especially since it's obvious. Not adding Ashura as jinchuuriki is the same as not adding someone who has used Genjutsu: Sharingan as Sharingan user in my book, just stupid.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:21, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
   
:Better to be missing information than to be giving false information. That the article does not say he isn't a jinchuriki = fair compromise. '''''~[[User:Snapper2|Snapper]][[User talk:Snapper2|T]][[Special:Contributions/Snapper2|o]]''''' 17:35, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
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Was it ever stated that [[Asura]] had [[Six Paths Sage Mode]]? Because if it wasn't, it should be removed. [[User:MartinZ02|MartinZ02]] ([[User talk:MartinZ02|talk]]) 10:51, August 1, 2016 (UTC)
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:Inferred by the statement of Hagoromo giving Asura power, and comparing that to similar looking powers and their requirements. Discussions about it are scattered through relevant talk pages and its archives. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 16:38, August 1, 2016 (UTC)
   
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== Asura didn't receive power and SPSM ==
::I have decided to toss my lot in with "jinchuriki". Jinchuriki of what, now that remains to be seen. Continue this argument.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 17:42, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
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Asura didn't get actual power from his dad nor had SPSM. In chapter 670, Hagoromo stated that from training and cooperating with his comrades, Asura awakened his own power that rivals to that of his brother's. So why would Hagoromo meant that he gave Asura some of his own power if it contradicts what he said 23 chapters ago? Also where did it state that Asura obtained SPSM? Was he listed as a user because he had a chakra avatar to something that has nothing to do with the form (Tailed Beast Mode)? Can someone give me valid reasons as to why the wiki states he was given power and why he's listed as a user?--[[User:UltimaDude|UltimaDude]] ([[User talk:UltimaDude|talk]]) 22:59, February 4, 2017 (UTC)
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:Truth Seeking Balls/Orbs and also if that avatar thing happens to indeed be bijuu mode, then he must have been given power regardless, unless you believe he was born with bijuu mode. Furthermore, the anime actually shows Hagoromo giving Asura power.--[[User:Elveonora|'''Elve''']] {{Mod}} <sup><small>[[User talk:Elveonora|Talk Page]]|[[Special:Contributions/Elveonora|Contribs]]</small></sup> 21:20, February 5, 2017 (UTC)
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::And when Hagoromo is literally giving Naruto and Sasuke powers, he says the difference that time is that he's giving them both instead of just one of the brothers. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 21:52, February 5, 2017 (UTC)
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:::@Elvenora Asura obtained Truth-Seeking Balls on his own just like Hagoromo and his brother. In the same chapter where the chakra avatar was introduced, Hagoromo stated that Asura trained and cooperated with his comrades to awaken his dormant power that matched that of his brother's. No where did he state that he gave Asura power or that Asura became friends with Kurama. So I see no reason why Asura formed the avatar other than from his own power. The anime is completely irrelevant. @Omnibender If Hagoromo meant that he literally gave Asura his own power, then it would contradict what he said 23 chapters ago. Obviously he meant political power/authority (leadership over Ninshuu) which is what made Indra jelly. Why can't you see that?--[[User:UltimaDude|UltimaDude]] ([[User talk:UltimaDude|talk]]) 22:05, February 5, 2017 (UTC)
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::::No, it doesn't. Asura reached power rivaling that of his brother naturally, through hard work and dedication, but nowhere does it state that his power didn't eventually surpass that of Indra, after having received a buff perhaps.
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Furthermore, 1 of Asura's reincarnates, Hashirama, extremely powerful and talented awakened no Six Paths Senjutsu, while 2nd known incarnate, known for hard work and dedication also awakened no SPS, no... It had to be given to him, there is zero evidence SPS is part of Asura's birthright.--[[User:Elveonora|'''Elve''']] {{Mod}} <sup><small>[[User talk:Elveonora|Talk Page]]|[[Special:Contributions/Elveonora|Contribs]]</small></sup> 22:31, February 5, 2017 (UTC)
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:Extremely weak argument considering that Hagoromo obtained Six Paths Senjutsu and Truth-Seeking Balls on his own with out becoming a TTJ, something Senjus, Uzumakis, and Uchihas can only dream of doing. Saying Hagoromo gave actual power to Asura is contradicting what he said about 20 chapters prior.--[[User:UltimaDude|UltimaDude]] ([[User talk:UltimaDude|talk]]) 01:42, February 6, 2017 (UTC)
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::It's not an argument, it's a fact. Hagoromo might or might not have awakened SPS on his own (we don't know it as a fact if he did, so stop saying it as if we do) but SPS certainly isn't part of what Asura inherited, those being his father's strong life force and physical energy.
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Furthermore, SPS, if naturally awakened by Asura, wouldn't have put him on par with Indra, since the Mangekyou Sharingan as powerful as it can be, doesn't compare and measure to Six Paths Senjutsu, the Rinnegan does. In other words, if SPS for Asura had been natural, then the two weren't equals, because Asura would have been much stronger.
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Therefore you can deduce Asura was an equal without Six Paths Senjutsu and Bijuu Mode or whatever that is and there is zero canonical evidence that he had those naturally, thus he must have been literally given power by Hagoromo.--[[User:Elveonora|'''Elve''']] {{Mod}} <sup><small>[[User talk:Elveonora|Talk Page]]|[[Special:Contributions/Elveonora|Contribs]]</small></sup> 10:46, February 6, 2017 (UTC)
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:::Facts, my behind. We literally seen Hagoromo (from Kaguya's memories) and Hamura (from a flashback in ''The Last'') have Truth-Seeking Balls. Where and how else will they get them without ever interacting with the the Ten-Tails' chakra? Six Paths Senjutsu certainly fits the ''"strong life force/physical energy/body"'' motif. What are even saying? You claimed that if Asura naturally had SPS, he would be stronger, then you go on saying that he was given power from Hagoromo. Suppose that Hagoromo did indeed give actual power to Asura, it would be in the form of SPS, and with that he and Indra still mutually destroyed each other. You are basically contradicting yourself. But regardless, these are the facts:
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*Hagoromo and Hamura had Truth-Seeking Balls without interacting with the Ten-Tails' chakra
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*Hagoromo stated that Asura trained and learned to cooperated with his friends which awakened his dormant power that rival that of Indra's. And '''within the same chapter''', we see Asura's chakra avatar wielding Truth-Seeking Balls and battling Indra's PS
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*Asura obtaining leadership over Ninshuu was what made Indra butthurt and started the feud between the brothers
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*The databook didn't list Asura as a user of SPSM
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*There was absolutely no reason for Hagoromo to give Asura literal power
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Not to mention, you say that Asura with SPS couldn't be equal to Indra who had just the MS. But do you not recall DMS Kakashi who was able to fend off against Kaguya and did more damage to her than Sasuke? Indra is the son of Hagoromo and was stated to have inherited his '''powerful chakra''', so it makes sense that he and Asura were equals. So tell me, what evidence do you possibly have against all the ones I listed?--[[User:UltimaDude|UltimaDude]] ([[User talk:UltimaDude|talk]]) 21:36, February 6, 2017 (UTC)
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:Look son, I completely debunked your 'logic' so I understand your portrayal of frustration. I've never denied that Hagoromo was seen wielding TSB before becoming jinchuuriki and that Hamura had them too, I'm not stupid, son. What I'm unsuccessfuly so far trying to explain you here, is that Asura's birth inheritance has never been stated to be SPS. Strong life force and physical energy equaling SPS is a delusion right out your ass, son. Also his incarnates showed no SPS no matter the amount of hard work and dedication, repeating myself here, since your eyes must have completely dodged reason when they saw it.
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But back to Hagoromo and Hamura, figure that perhaps, Hamura was the one born with SPS and Hagoromo received it from him, having been gifted by Hamura. Or perhaps Kaguya gifted them before she went fully insane, or perhaps Santa came on a flying reindeer and brought it for them.
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There is too many unknowns about that, but Madara, someone who literally recreated Hagoromo's chakra din't have SPS until he became a jinchuuriki, so there's that, son.--[[User:Elveonora|'''Elve''']] {{Mod}} <sup><small>[[User talk:Elveonora|Talk Page]]|[[Special:Contributions/Elveonora|Contribs]]</small></sup> 22:13, February 6, 2017 (UTC)
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::Hahaha, so you are completely ignoring what has been stated and shown, figures. You have yet to bring in actual evidence that disproves my points, but instead bring up extremely flimsy explanations. Your argument is just as ridiculous as your "Asura was Kurama's jinchuriki". You only have one job and one job only. '''Give. Me. Proof'''. Now can you please do it properly like a good boy? --[[User:UltimaDude|UltimaDude]] ([[User talk:UltimaDude|talk]]) 22:23, February 6, 2017 (UTC)
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:::Since you were the one who brought it up, the burden of proof is on your shoulders and so far, has been severely lacking, son. In fact I have more evidence. When Toneri recreated the Tenseigan, thus Hamura's power, he received the Truth Seeking Balls, while Madara, who recreated the Rinnegan, thus Hagoromo's power, didn't receive any Truth Seeking Balls.
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Explain that, son.--[[User:Elveonora|'''Elve''']] {{Mod}} <sup><small>[[User talk:Elveonora|Talk Page]]|[[Special:Contributions/Elveonora|Contribs]]</small></sup> 22:30, February 6, 2017 (UTC) Co
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::::I already gave you a ton of facts, but you of course ignore it. To answer your question. The Rinnegan is only a part of Hagoromo's powers. The other part is obtained via the SP Ten-Tails Coffin Seal, hence why TTJs tend to look like the Sage. Now, address the facts I brought up. --[[User:UltimaDude|UltimaDude]] ([[User talk:UltimaDude|talk]]) 22:46, February 6, 2017 (UTC)
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:You explained nothing. If Hagoromo had SPS before becoming TTJ as power that's part of his chakra, then why didn't Madara, who recreated Hagoromo's chakra?--[[User:Elveonora|'''Elve''']] {{Mod}} <sup><small>[[User talk:Elveonora|Talk Page]]|[[Special:Contributions/Elveonora|Contribs]]</small></sup> 23:08, February 6, 2017 (UTC)
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::I like how you keep ignoring the list of facts I have above. As I said, Madara recreated only a part of Hagromo's power when he awakened the Rinnegan. --[[User:UltimaDude|UltimaDude]] ([[User talk:UltimaDude|talk]]) 23:38, February 6, 2017 (UTC)
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:::The Canon states that he recreated the entirety of Hagoromo's chakra.--[[User:Elveonora|'''Elve''']] {{Mod}} <sup><small>[[User talk:Elveonora|Talk Page]]|[[Special:Contributions/Elveonora|Contribs]]</small></sup> 23:41, February 6, 2017 (UTC)
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::::And canon states and shows that Asura awakened the chakra avatar and Truth-Seeking Balls on his own. Did it actually say that Madara obtained the entirety of Hagoromo's chakra. If Kaguya had Six Paths Senjutsu, then Hagoromo also had it on his own.--[[User:UltimaDude|UltimaDude]] ([[User talk:UltimaDude|talk]]) 23:56, February 6, 2017 (UTC)
 
Bump.--[[User:UltimaDude|UltimaDude]] ([[User talk:UltimaDude|talk]]) 00:44, February 16, 2017 (UTC)
   
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== Kunitsukami ==
I don't think there's much left to discuss. Elve has presented enough evidence to justify the jinchūriki classification as far as I'm concerned. Hypothetically of course, it would've been pretty much the same if we never knew for a fact that Indra possessed the Sharingan before we saw him with a Sharingan. All the evidence points towards it, it doesn't necessarily prove whether he had MS or EMS, but it would definitely prove he had the Sharingan. I say give Ashura the classification, but don't list any hypotheticals in regards to what bijū (even though Kurama seems like a shoe-in).--[[User:Reliops|Reliops]] ([[User talk:Reliops|talk]]) 17:58, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
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Just wanted to point out that we now have a name for his battle avatar, thanks to his ability '''Six Paths: Kunitsukami''' (六道・国津守, ''Rikudō: Kunitsukami'', lit. "Six Paths: Earthly God") in ''[[Naruto: Shinobi Collection Shippū Ranbu]]''. Indra's Susano'o is also named '''Origin: Susano'o''' (根源・須佐能乎, ''Kongen: Susano'o''). [[User:FF-Suzaku|FF-Suzaku]] ([[User talk:FF-Suzaku|talk]]) 20:29, January 7, 2019 (UTC)
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:Thank you for the info. Does that “collection” possess any other names we may be lacking at the moment? {{User:WindStar7125/LongSig}} 20:53, January 7, 2019 (UTC)
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::I think I vaguely remember seeing video of these jutsu on youtube. However, this creates a possible issue. From anime settei, we have a name for the three heads six arms mode Naruto used as Asura Kurama Mode. I think it's more likely that this refers to the jutsu Asura used while in this mode in the game. The jutsu looks more like a variation of Kaguya's Expansive TSB. Also, since the last kanji is 守, and not 神, wouldn't the kami portion be something like guardian or protector? [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 21:35, January 7, 2019 (UTC)
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Yeah, I guess Guardian would be more accurate, though it's a reference to the term Kunitsukami which contrasts with the Amatsukami (heavenly gods). And the battle avatar that Asura uses is not Kurama or Asura Kurama, rather Asura Kurama Mode is a reference to the design of Asura's battle avatar. More importantly, this version of Asura is paired with the version of Indra that has the ability "Origin: Susano'o" and the card art and abilities for both of them depict them manifesting their "battle avatars" and attacking with them. [http://nsc-db.github.io/common/assets/img/units/20031016_6.png] [http://nsc-db.github.io/common/assets/img/units/20031017_6.png]
   
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Honestly, there's a lot of random interesting stuff in that game. Lot of minor terms and names for things like clothing, weapons, chakra, and seals that appear in the game as equippable gear, including pretty obscure stuff, which may be useful. For example, Hagoromo, Hamura, Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto, and Ten Tails' Jinchuriki Madara all wear "Six Paths Haori" (六道羽織, ''Rikudō Haori''), IE "Naruto's Six Paths Haori," "Madara's Six Path's Haori." The sun and moon seals on Naruto and Sasuke's hands are called "Palm Seals" (掌の印, ''Shō no In''), IE "Naruto's Palm Seal" and "Sasuke's Palm Seal." The symbol of the interlocking black crescent moon and white sun that appears on Kaguya's third eye is called the "Sage of Six Paths Power Seal" (六道仙人の力の印, ''Rikudō Sennin no Chikara no In'').
@Snapper, there really isn't thing such as "false information" in this case. With all the '''current''' knowledge that's been revealed to us by the author. The canon's rules dictate that Ashura has to have been a jinchuuriki because he used a jinchuuriki exclusive technique. So '''as of now''' it's true. If it won't be true in a month or later is another thing, we will simply make adjustments. In other words, we know only as much as we are told. And from what we've been told until now, it has to be true. If everyone were as paranoid as you are, nothing would be edited. Because hey, what if 99% of everything we think to be true is false because we haven't seen the full picture yet, or what if the author changed his mind and hasn't told us yet? OMG, Kakashi's blood type may be different now than it was, we should remove it rather than risking us provide "false information" and when we are at that, let's delete everything and close this website until the manga's over, kay?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:17, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
   
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The mass of all the Tailed Beasts's chakra is called the "Complete Tailed Beasts' Chakra" (''Zen-Bijū no Chakura''), and can be equipped by Ten Tails' Jinchuriki Obito and Madara, Sage Mode Naruto, and Last Battle Sasuke. The individual moons he seals the Tailed Beasts in are called "Tailed Beast Sealing Stones" (尾獣封印の岩, ''Bijū Fūin no Iwa'') and the combined Tailed Beast chakra contained inside Last Battle Sasuke's Susano'o is called the "Fused Tailed Beasts' Chakra" (融合された尾獣チャクラ, ''Yūgōsareta Bijū Chakura'').
:We've been told Kakashi's blood type. We haven't been told Asura's a jinchuriki. Your argument is bad. '''''~[[User:Snapper2|Snapper]][[User talk:Snapper2|T]][[Special:Contributions/Snapper2|o]]''''' 20:49, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
::Except we were shown it, by him using a Tailed Beast Skill. Do you need Kishimoto to sit on your lap, stick his spit-wet finger into your ear and then softly whisper it? And you misunderstood the argument. By the rules of the canon that work since chapter 1, one has to be a jinchuuriki to use Tailed Beast Skill, there's no reason to think it has changed. Assuming it works differently for Ashura is as paranoid as the possibility of Kakashi's bloodtype being different now--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 20:54, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
   
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The chakra arms that Ten Tails' Jinchuriki Obito produces are called "Hands of Flame" (炎の手, ''Honō no Te'') and the blue chakra arms that the Ninshu practitioners and Asura use are called "Hands of Bonds" (絆の手, ''Kizuna no Te'').
Are you sure it is a TB skill? I think TSBs require an abnormal mastery of senjutsu chakra. Only senjutsu can counter it, and natural energy can beat natural energy. Plus Hagoromo could use a TSB before becoming the jinchuuriki of the Ten-Tails. [[User:WindStar7125|<font color="blue">'''''WindStar7125'''''</font>]] [[File:WindStar7125 Task.svg|20px|link=User:WindStar7125]] [[User talk:WindStar7125|<sup>(Talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/WindStar7125|<sub>(Contributions)</sub>]] 21:02, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
:That's a stupid question to ask, no offense. Naruto only got it after he received chakras of all 9 Tailed Beasts and Ten-Tails' jinchuuriki get from get go. Obito didn't have any Senjutsu prior to becoming jinchuuriki--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:20, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
::None taken (Cuz I know how blunt you are), I ask a lot of them. But what is your response to Hagoromo using the TSB ''before'' being the TT jinchuuriki? [[User:WindStar7125|<font color="blue">'''''WindStar7125'''''</font>]] [[File:WindStar7125 Task.svg|20px|link=User:WindStar7125]] [[User talk:WindStar7125|<sup>(Talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/WindStar7125|<sub>(Contributions)</sub>]] 21:23, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
:::He is her son, duh. Just like Ashura and Indra inherited each half of Hagoromo's chakra, so did Hagoromo and Hamura have half of Kaguya's.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:30, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
::::You just proved my point that Hagoromo used TSBs ''without'' being a Tailed Beast jinchuuriki (Lemme ask the stupid question again, "How is it only TB skill if Hagoromo used it w/o being a jinchuuriki?"). And if you're saying that Hagoromo inherited the chakra necessary to use TSBs from his mother, isn't it possible that Asura inherited that chakra from Hagoromo? Assuming the black balls in Asura's chakra avatar are TSBs? [[User:WindStar7125|<font color="blue">'''''WindStar7125'''''</font>]] [[File:WindStar7125 Task.svg|20px|link=User:WindStar7125]] [[User talk:WindStar7125|<sup>(Talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/WindStar7125|<sub>(Contributions)</sub>]] 21:37, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
   
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The chakra of Asura and Indra that clings to their reincarnations are specifically called "Asura's Soul" (アシュラの魂, ''Ashura no Tamashi'') and "Indra's Soul" (インドラの魂, ''Indora no Tamashi''). The mark on Hagoromo's forehead is called "Hagoromo's Third Eye" (ハゴロモの第三の眼, ''Hagoromo no Daisan no Me''). The curse Kaguya placed on Hamura is called "Mother Kaguya's Curse" (母カグヤの呪詛, ''Haha-Kaguya no Juso'').
Because it originates from a Tailed Beast. And no, Ashura didn't inherit it, otherwise his incarnates would have it, meaning what allowed him to use it happened post-birth.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:47, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
   
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Perhaps worth noting that the one adult Kurama Chakra Mode Naruto unit they've released (based on his appearance at the Chunin Exams stadium when bringing out Kurama to protect everyone) can't use the "Six Paths Haori" or any of the other Six Paths gear ("Naruto's Truthseeker Orbs," "Naruto's Palm Seal") and also can't equip the previously mentioned "Complete Tailed Beasts' Chakra," but can equip "Nine Tails' Chakra" and the "Kurama Haori" which is used by his other Kurama Chakra Mode versions. The Gear for his unit that can use Asura Kurama Mode also seems to indicate that the Rasenshuriken he holds in his right hand for the [[Six Paths: Ultra-Big Ball Rasenshuriken]] is actually called "Six Paths Big Ball Rasenshuriken" (六道大玉螺旋手裏剣, ''Rikudō Ōdama Rasenshuriken''), alongside the established [[Tailed Beast Ball Rasenshuriken]] in his left hand.
Hagoromo inherited the chakra from Kaguya, not the Ten-Tails. She wasn't fused with the Shinju yet when Hagoromo was born. And Hagoromo, like everyone else, was born with his own chakra, otherwise everyone would be a jinchuuriki of the Shinju (technically they are). Hagoromo, with his own chakra, since he was born with it, used the TSBs, and Asura may have inherited the senjutsu necessary to use them, stupid as it sounds. Plus, Asura's incarnates inherited the senjutsu, and the ability to mix it perfectly with their chakra, like how Indra's incarnates can use Susanoo (Kabuto and Kakashi are among the exceptions). I'm of the mindset that TSBs require a huge amount of senjutsu. The Ten-Tails is a huge mass of natural energy and chakra. And like everyone else says, let's just wait for now, there is no use arguing with each other... We'll have to wait and see. [[User:WindStar7125|<font color="blue">'''''WindStar7125'''''</font>]] [[File:WindStar7125 Task.svg|20px|link=User:WindStar7125]] [[User talk:WindStar7125|<sup>(Talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/WindStar7125|<sub>(Contributions)</sub>]] 22:02, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
:"Hagoromo inherited the chakra from Kaguya, not the Ten-Tails. She wasn't fused with the Shinju yet when Hagoromo was born" If she wasn't, then Hagoromo wouldn't have been born with chakra, because she got chakra because of the Shinju. And Ashura didn't inherit it, otherwise his incarnates would have it too. The Truth Seeking Balls appeared after Naruto has got chakras of all the Tailed Beasts and after Obito and Madara became jinchuuriki. There's no room left for interpretation--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:10, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
::What I meant was is that she wasn't the monstrous TT when Hagoromo was born. Asura's incarnates had the senjutsu he had, and senjutsu can do a lot of things. It enhanced Hashirama's wood. It enhanced Naruto's Rasengan and Rasenshuriken. It gave Hagoromo and Asura TSBs. At one point I believed it was a TB skill, but the fact that Asura was using it with no confirmation (no matter how heavy the implication is) he was a jinchuuriki, and the fact that Hagoromo was using it before becoming a jinchuuriki is what led me to these "stupid" questions and responses. But let's just wait and see before this discussion gets way out of hand. [[User:WindStar7125|<font color="blue">'''''WindStar7125'''''</font>]] [[File:WindStar7125 Task.svg|20px|link=User:WindStar7125]] [[User talk:WindStar7125|<sup>(Talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/WindStar7125|<sub>(Contributions)</sub>]] 22:18, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
:::But they had to learn it, they weren't born with it, that means Ashura wasn't born with Senjutsu. For Hagoromo, I already told you he inherited Kaguya's chakras.
 
:::Not sure why are you stupid about this.
 
:::* Obito becomes Ten-Tails' jinchuuriki, gets TSB
 
:::* Madara becomes Ten-Tails' jinchuuriki, gets TSB
 
:::* Naruto receives chakras of all 9 Tailed Beasts, mixes it with Senjutsu, gets TSB
 
   
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For specific jutsu... Indra's black fire dōjutsu is apparently named "Hinokagutsuchi" (火之加具土命), not Amaterasu. Indra also has an attack where he spreads purple flames with a slash of his Susano'o's sword, which is called "Shien no Kishin" (紫焔ノ鬼神, lit. "Purple Flames of the Fierce Deity"). Both of these are classified as "Sharingan" abilities. He also has a Lightning Style technique called "Tenma Shūrai" (天魔襲雷, lit. "Evil Spirit Lightning Strike") and a Fire Style technique called "Engoku Ikusagami" (炎獄戦神, lit. "Flaming Hell War God").
:::From that is obvious Senjutsu alone doesn't grant TSB. One needs Senjutsu AND Tailed Beast chakra, meaning Ashura had to have both, but he wasn't born with it like you believe. Because if that were the case, the incarnates would have it from the get go. Hashirama, Ashura's incarnate didn't have it and the difference between him and Naruto is that the latter's got chakras of 9 Tailed Beasts--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:28, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
   
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Asura has a Wind Style technique that resembles Naruto's Rasenshuriken called "Itō: Fūjin" (一刀・風刃, lit. "Single Strike: Wind Blade") in which he assumes an iai stance, concentrates spiralling wind chakra into his sword, and then draws it in an arcing slash, which sends a blade of wind towards his opponent. On impact it unleashes a squall that hurls the opponent into the air. He also has a Wood Style ninjutsu called "Bonds: Wood Golem Barrage" (絆・木人連打, ''Kizuna: Mokujin Renda''). Additionally, [[Amenomihashira]] is listed as a Senjutsu technique and Six Paths: Kunitsukami is listed as a Six Paths technique.
::::Oh I didn't say they were born with senjutsu, haha. But Asura's incarnates can perfectly mix natural energy with theirs (and so can many others). Like I said, senjutsu and natural energy do different things for different people. But we'll see what the manga brings us before assuming Asura is a jinchuuriki. [[User:WindStar7125|<font color="blue">'''''WindStar7125'''''</font>]] [[File:WindStar7125 Task.svg|20px|link=User:WindStar7125]] [[User talk:WindStar7125|<sup>(Talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/WindStar7125|<sub>(Contributions)</sub>]] 22:47, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
   
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Izuna has a Sharingan ability called "Uchiha Shungenjin" (うちは瞬幻刃, lit. "Uchiha Blinking Illusion Blade"), a Fire Style ability called "Uchiha Enjin: Hipyō" (うちは炎刃・火憑, lit. "Uchiha Flame Blade: Fire Haunting") in which he spits a stream of fire at them and then dashes past with a swift sword strike, and a Fire Style ability called "Enjin Ranbu" (炎刃乱舞, lit. "Flame Blade Wild Dance") in which he slashes his opponent several times with his flaming sword and then stabs them, causing them to erupt in flames.
:A wiki's job is to present information, not to interpret that information. If readers want to read between the lines they need to do it on their own; the most the wiki can do is give them the lines to read between.
 
:Is Asura a jinchuriki? Probably, in the same way that Tobi was probably Obito. But like Tobito, the wiki cannot act until it's actually stated. This has nothing to do with my fantasies wherein Kishimoto penetrates my ear canal with his sweet nectars. It's about preserving what little integrity the wiki has.
 
:'''''~[[User:Snapper2|Snapper]][[User talk:Snapper2|T]][[Special:Contributions/Snapper2|o]]''''' 03:36, August 9, 2014 (UTC)
 
   
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I'm sure there's plenty more stuff to look through. [[User:FF-Suzaku|FF-Suzaku]] ([[User talk:FF-Suzaku|talk]]) 00:12, January 8, 2019 (UTC)
I apologize for the forum talk. I should have taken this ridiculous debate between @Elveo and I there. My bad. Maybe Asura is a jinchuuriki. Who knows? Sorry. Won't happen again. [[User:WindStar7125|<font color="blue">'''''WindStar7125'''''</font>]] [[File:WindStar7125 Task.svg|20px|link=User:WindStar7125]] [[User talk:WindStar7125|<sup>(Talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/WindStar7125|<sub>(Contributions)</sub>]] 05:21, August 9, 2014 (UTC)
 
 
:mfw even a video game puts more thought into the series than its mangaka • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 01:09, January 8, 2019 (UTC)
 
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::@Tau, agreed. @Suzaku, whoa... impressively informative as always. To everyone, what's the next course of action? Should we compile all of these names en masse in a thread and disseminate them across the wiki? Should we take any further course of action at all? {{User:WindStar7125/LongSig}} 06:44, January 8, 2019 (UTC)
Really Snapper? Then at least be consistent with: "it's not our job to interpret that information" because in case you didn't notice, Gaara and all sand techniques I believe got listed as Magnet Release without adequate evidence. How come are you creeping around here but not there?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 10:51, August 9, 2014 (UTC)
 
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:::This is cool and all, but someone please remind me, why do we use non-canon videogame stuff as representative of canon?--[[User:Elveonora|'''Elve''']] {{Mod}} <sup><small>[[User talk:Elveonora|Talk Page]]|[[Special:Contributions/Elveonora|Contribs]]</small></sup> 08:43, January 8, 2019 (UTC)
 
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::::It's not up to us to make any determination of what is or isn't canon, it's up to us to compile, organize, and cite what information is available to us. If the only source we have for a piece of information is taken from a game, then cite it as such. It's better to refer to a citable, official source, even a secondary one, than it is to just leave something blank, ambiguous, or to make up a name or interpretation, right? [[User:FF-Suzaku|FF-Suzaku]] ([[User talk:FF-Suzaku|talk]]) 14:34, January 8, 2019 (UTC)
:I no longer monitor every edit on the wiki. I happened to notice this discussion, so here I am. Just because other articles have flimsy standards does not mean this one should too. '''''~[[User:Snapper2|Snapper]][[User talk:Snapper2|T]][[Special:Contributions/Snapper2|o]]''''' 17:21, August 9, 2014 (UTC)
 
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:::::Yup, we are archivist, it's not our job to fix the mistakes, omissions etc. the mangaka made. Of course we can try to make ''sense'' of things (as with Magnet Release), but other than that, we only do what you said: compile and organise. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 19:18, January 8, 2019 (UTC)
::Well you are right about that, but I see it kinda unfair that one person is allowed to insert personal interpretation into the articles as facts (especially when he is a sysop) but another isn't. Also from my point of view alone, this topic at hand isn't even about interpretation. I see Tailed Beast Skill, I figure jinchuuriki, that's all there is to it, no room for interpretation.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:28, August 9, 2014 (UTC)
 
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::::::Regarding stuff that Suzaku mentioned, we already have one of Izuna's jutsu (as [[Uchiha Blaze Sword: Fire Possession]], may need a fix in translation and moving), and we also have [[Six Paths: Flame Extinction Hand]] from Obito, also from that game. Based on name (we do have the kanji for it), I'd say it might be a related or even derived jutsu of the "Hands of Flame" mentioned above. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 18:47, January 17, 2019 (UTC)
:::You are a reader; you are free to see A and B and conclude C. But for the wiki's purposes it needs to be explicitly told C.
 
:::I haven't imposed my sysop privileges on this issue yet, and I don't particularly want to. But I will if necessary, not because I disagree with you - as I said, he probably is a jinchuriki - but rather because the wiki has standards that need to be upheld.
 
:::If you want to go through other articles and cleanse them of statements that are merely "obvious" and not "stated", I will support you. (In spirit at least; I'm getting to be more active than I want to be.) '''''~[[User:Snapper2|Snapper]][[User talk:Snapper2|T]][[Special:Contributions/Snapper2|o]]''''' 17:49, August 9, 2014 (UTC)
 
 
All we know is that TSBs require chakra from the Senjutsu of the Six Paths (SPST), as shown with Obito when he absorbed chakra from Madara (Maybe Obito was a temporary pseudo-jinchuuriki of the TT). All who have used Hagoromo's senjutsu have used TSBs. Hagoromo could use TSBs before becoming a jinchuuriki because, well it is ''his'' senjutsu, he's special, and his include TSBs. Whether Asura used TSBs... we don't know. Those blacks balls in his chakra avatar could be something else altogether. If they are TSBs, that means Asura has the senjutsu of his father. And all users of Hagoromo's senjutsu have been jinchuuriki as well. [[User:WindStar7125|<font color="blue">'''''WindStar7125'''''</font>]] [[File:WindStar7125 Task.svg|20px|link=User:WindStar7125]] [[User talk:WindStar7125|<sup>(Talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/WindStar7125|<sub>(Contributions)</sub>]] 20:39, August 17, 2014 (UTC)
 
 
Madara and Obito got Six Paths Senjutsu after they became jinchuuriki of the Ten-Tails, so it's not Hagoromo's but Kaguya's--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 20:54, August 17, 2014 (UTC)
 
 
Good point, but why call it "The Senjutsu of the Six Paths" if it's Kaguya's instead of Hagoromo's? [[User:WindStar7125|<font color="blue">'''''WindStar7125'''''</font>]] [[File:WindStar7125 Task.svg|20px|link=User:WindStar7125]] [[User talk:WindStar7125|<sup>(Talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/WindStar7125|<sub>(Contributions)</sub>]] 21:00, August 17, 2014 (UTC)
 
:Meaning of Six Paths is yet to be explained. May have to do with chakra natures, Rinnegan's Paths or something different entirely. Just because Hagoromo was known as sage of six paths doesn't mean he invented/is an originator of whatever six paths refers to--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:05, August 17, 2014 (UTC)
 
::Yet again, another good point. But if Asura can use TSBs, that means he can use the Senjutsu of the Six Paths, which lends credibility to both of our arguments (Mine = If Asura can use TSBs, he can use senjutsu; Yours = Asura is a jinchuuriki because he can use TSBs; though we don't know if they are TSBs). [[User:WindStar7125|<font color="blue">'''''WindStar7125'''''</font>]] [[File:WindStar7125 Task.svg|20px|link=User:WindStar7125]] [[User talk:WindStar7125|<sup>(Talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/WindStar7125|<sub>(Contributions)</sub>]] 21:08, August 17, 2014 (UTC)
 
:::Senjutsu and Tailed Beast chakra aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, since they were originally one in the Ten-Tails.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:11, August 17, 2014 (UTC)
 
::::True. I'm not disputing that. But how is Kaguya a user if she doesn't have the markings of the SPST? [[User:WindStar7125|<font color="blue">'''''WindStar7125'''''</font>]] [[File:WindStar7125 Task.svg|20px|link=User:WindStar7125]] [[User talk:WindStar7125|<sup>(Talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/WindStar7125|<sub>(Contributions)</sub>]] 21:19, August 17, 2014 (UTC)
 
 
Unless I missed it, her back is yet to be shown--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:20, August 17, 2014 (UTC)
 
 
Yeah it does... Back to the topic, we don't know if Asura can use TSBs... could be something else. [[User:WindStar7125|<font color="blue">'''''WindStar7125'''''</font>]] [[File:WindStar7125 Task.svg|20px|link=User:WindStar7125]] [[User talk:WindStar7125|<sup>(Talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/WindStar7125|<sub>(Contributions)</sub>]] 21:21, August 17, 2014 (UTC)
 
 
== Presumed Yang Release? ==
 
 
Hear me out. When Kaguya first appeared and used her Byakugan in chapter 679, she saw the energy coming of Naruto and Sasuke's respective marks. Kaguya first assumed that they had gotten their power from Hagoromo and Hamura, but then determined their powers came from Indra and Ashura. Based on this alone, is it not all but confirmed Ashura and Indra both had Yin and Yang powers respectively?--[[User:Reliops|Reliops]] ([[User talk:Reliops|talk]]) 18:19, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
 
No. Hagoromo and Hamura had the seals. She first sensed the seals that imprisoned her, realizing it was the exact same as her sons'. But then she saw Indra and Asura's chakras in Sasuke and Naruto, respectively. Though it was suggested Hagoromo's sons may have them, it is not confirmed. Naruto and Sasuke respectively have Asura and Indra's chakra, and also Hagoromo and Hamura's seals. [[User:WindStar7125|<font color="blue">'''''WindStar7125'''''</font>]] [[File:WindStar7125 Task.svg|20px|link=User:WindStar7125]] [[User talk:WindStar7125|<sup>(Talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/WindStar7125|<sub>(Contributions)</sub>]] 18:32, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
 
And you don't think it's suspicious at all that we saw Indra and Ashura standing before crescent and full circle banners ? Be reasonable. There are plenty of contextual clues that point towards the fact that Ashura and Indra inherited half of their father's power each and passed that down as they were reborn. Black Zetsu manipulated Madara into pursuing Hashirama's power so he could awaken the Rinnegan, i.e. he needed to add Yang to his own Yin to obtain Yin-Yang. Hashirama couldn't have Yang if wasn't for Ashura--[[User:Reliops|Reliops]] ([[User talk:Reliops|talk]]) 18:42, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
 
Windstar is correct, she actually thought at first that they are transmigrants of Hagoromo and Hamura because of the seals (confirming that Hamura had a seal or both... but that's another topic) but upon further inspection of their chakra, she realized that they are of Ashura and Indra instead--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:01, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
 
@Reliops, did you read my answer? I am being reasonable. I saw the context clues. What do you think I meant when I said "it was ''suggested''" they may have the seals. Read my entire statement before asking me to "be reasonable." Though I'm not offended by your statement. @Elveo, thanks. [[User:WindStar7125|<font color="blue">'''''WindStar7125'''''</font>]] [[File:WindStar7125 Task.svg|20px|link=User:WindStar7125]] [[User talk:WindStar7125|<sup>(Talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/WindStar7125|<sub>(Contributions)</sub>]] 20:02, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
 
That's what I said though. Kaguya recognised Indra and Ashura's chakra. My point is that those chakra are Yin and Yang respectively, as Sasuke later said, i.e. Indra and Ashura had those powers.--[[User:Reliops|Reliops]] ([[User talk:Reliops|talk]]) 20:44, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
 
No. She didn't recognize her grandsons chakra first. Kaguya recognized the seals, then threw Naruto and Sasuke. She initially thought it was Hagoromo and Hamura due to the seals, and Black Zetsu later confirmed that her sons used those seals. Then Kaguya, using her Byakugan, realized Naruto and Sasuke have Hagoromo and Hamura's seals, but also Asura and Indra's chakra. It is implied that Hagoromo's sons have the seals, but we have to either see it on their hands first, or have Hagoromo or someone else confirm it. Which brings me to this question, when did Sasuke confirm that? [[User:WindStar7125|<font color="blue">'''''WindStar7125'''''</font>]] [[File:WindStar7125 Task.svg|20px|link=User:WindStar7125]] [[User talk:WindStar7125|<sup>(Talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/WindStar7125|<sub>(Contributions)</sub>]] 20:54, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
 
Ashura and Indra didn't have the seals or at least weren't born with them and there was no reason for Hagoromo to give them to his sons, because Kaguya was sealed by him and his brother. Had Ashura and Indra been born with the seals, then so would have them their incarnates, but they don't.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:00, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
 
"Kaguya first assumed that they had gotten their power from Hagoromo and Hamura, but then determined their powers came from Indra and Ashura." - How is that any different from what I said? I didn't say a thing about the seals, I was referring to their power, i.e. their chakra.
 
Kishimoto being Kishimoto, isn't going to give us full truths and complete answers. It's up to us to connected dots using basic reading comprehension and contextual clues.
 
I point to these two images specifically in which Obito explains Yin and Yang, and then without directly using those words, says that is what Indra and Ashura respectively inherited.
 
[http://111.imagebam.com/download/MxUdWzOEpX8bCwOTg3gjfg/34385/343846712/Screen%20Shot%202014-08-08%20at%2021.22.16.png[Example 1]]
 
[http://109.imagebam.com/download/OcMOOF6FsvVO1qZ-U6zpSw/34384/343839148/Screen%20Shot%202014-08-08%20at%2020.35.14.png[Example 2]]
 
 
We've already set a precedent for presumed nature types, and this seems an appropriate use of it.--[[User:Reliops|Reliops]] ([[User talk:Reliops|talk]]) 21:06, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
 
I agree with you there, @Elveo. [[User:WindStar7125|<font color="blue">'''''WindStar7125'''''</font>]] [[File:WindStar7125 Task.svg|20px|link=User:WindStar7125]] [[User talk:WindStar7125|<sup>(Talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/WindStar7125|<sub>(Contributions)</sub>]] 21:13, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Either Way ==
 
I'd honestly like this debating over Asura's battle mode to stop, but I just wanna put in my thought as to what it is. This is just a logical idea that seems to make sense to me. There's 3 possible explanations to what those spheres are:
 
 
1. They're tailed beast balls because he's a jinchuriki
 
 
2. They're Truth Seeking Balls because he inherited his father's "body", meaning the Six Paths' Senjutsu
 
 
3. Once again they're Tailed Beast Balls because he got their chakra or at least their cooperation, since his dad is their beloved creator.
 
 
Honestly, the third one kinda makes sense to me because they were still young at the time (presumably) and would help the sage's son. Either one of the 3 still relates to tailed beast chakra since i think we can safely assume that its Bijuu-based. The second one is more likely since Asura, most likely, battled Indra with his inherited power. I would also like to remind everyone that he inherited his father's body while he still was the Juubi's jinchuriki, leading me to believe that his "body" power is similar to Naruto's power now.
 
 
Little side note, I noticed that all of Asura's known transmigrants have some connection to the tailed beasts and senjutsu, further leading me to believe that Asura's inherited power is connected to the tailed beasts and senjustsu in some way. Also, for the whole Asura/Yang thing, I think that he did utilize, not the seal, but Yang release itself because the sage said he inherited his strong physical energy. And it was hinted at that the transformation of yin and yang had to do with the balance and strength of the physical and spiritual energies in chakra. Also, physical energy, vitality that's connected to it, and a strong life force are all connected. This is my rant, thank you for hearing me out, and if you don't agree with something, then we'll talk it out maturely without insults. Wrapping it up, if it's not based on tailed beast chakra at all, then it has to be just a chakra construct, which a '''HIGHLY''' doubt since he inherited his father's body, meaning either the senjust, tailed beast chakra, or both as naruto does since the Juubi is a mix. [[User:Riptide240|Riptide240]] ([[User talk:Riptide240|talk]]) 14:52, August 20, 2014 (UTC)
 
:You haven't said anything new though. In all 3 cases he has to have been a jinch.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:41, August 20, 2014 (UTC)
 
:: Not necessarily since the second and third options don't involve him being a jinchuriki. obviously the construct is bijuu based and i think its the inherited tailed beast chakra he got from Hagoromo [[User:Riptide240|Riptide240]] ([[User talk:Riptide240|talk]]) 21:46, August 20, 2014 (UTC)
 

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Asura with SPSM/Power from his dad?

This may be (very) late and I apologize, I didn't know how to add comments in the talk page. I just want to know why Asura is added as a user of Six Paths Sage Mode? Yeah I agree that he uses Six Paths Senjutsu, but Six Paths Sage Mode? What? Isn't that mode unique to Naruto and Naruto alone? Six Paths Sage Mode is the result of Naruto combining the Six Paths Chakra he was given from Hagoromo with his own Senjutsu chakra, hence the toad eyes being part of the cross pupils. One can assume that Asura didn't have Sage Mode. That leads me to my next point, when was it said that Hagoromo gave Asura? I feel like what Hagoromo said is being misinterpreted. Can we please discuss about this? --UltimaDude (talk) 01:04, March 17, 2016 (UTC)

Considering that both of Asura's incarnates (Naruto and Hashirama) don't inherently come with Six Paths Senjutsu, means Asura didn't either, but he certainly exhibited it later on as of his usage of Truth Seeking Balls--Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 18:36, March 17, 2016 (UTC)
Neither Asura nor Naruto were able to use Wood Release like Hashirama could, so mentioning Naruto and Hashirama as to say why he was given power is not a really good argument. Asura is the direct descendant of Hagoromo, so why is it hard to believe that he has his own SPS, just a watered-down of Hagoromo's? It's just like Indra's MS looking like a watered-down version of Hagoromo's Rinnegan--UltimaDude (talk) 20:21, March 17, 2016 (UTC)
Because SPS isn't an innate Asura incarnate thing, yet Asura came to possess it eventually as of his usage of TSB. Wood Release didn't have anything with Hashirama having been an Asura incarnate as far as we know. Hagoromo said he had given power only to Asura which was a mistake corrected by giving power to both of his 'sons' this time. People argue that this power mentioned given to Asura was leadership of Ninshuu, but if that's the case, then he would have made Naruto and Sasuke both successors to Ninshuu and tell them to spread the teachings, but instead he gave them both actual powers, speaking in the same context as giving power to Asura was mentioned.--Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 13:33, March 18, 2016 (UTC)
So what if it isn't an innate Asura thing? It still goes with the Sage's "body" thing as all of his incarnates have. He is the son of the SoSP. Indra didn't get butthurt because Hagoromo gave Asura some of his power, it was because he was given leadership of Ninshuu. It was that decision that Hagoromo regretted. You can use multiple meanings of a word in the same phrase. Hagoromo had no reason to give either of his sons his actual power, just like he had no reason to give Naruto and Sasuke leadership of Ninshuu--UltimaDude (talk) 19:30, March 18, 2016 (UTC)

Well the context pretty much implies it was an actual power. Wouldn't make much sense for someone to reference spaghetti but talk about eggs in the sentence.--Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 09:51, March 19, 2016 (UTC)

What he said is still being taken out-of-context. If Hagoromo really gave Asura, power then he would of said so straight up. But he only mentions handing over the leadership of Ninshuu to Asura and Asura's power blossoming. It was the former that started to whole Indra vs Asura feud and it is that Hagoromo was referring to when mentioning power in regards to his sons--UltimaDude (talk) 18:19, March 19, 2016 (UTC)
Hagoromo was talking about having given power to Naruto and Sasuke stating that it had been a mistake to give power to just Asura and giving power to Sasuke was a correction of said mistake.--Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 18:29, March 19, 2016 (UTC)
He gave Asura power, as in authority of Ninshuu, which is what he regretted. Not to mention, Hagoromo didn't say he give the same to Naruto as he supposedly did with Asura. Hagoromo had absolutely no reason to give Asura some of his power. He wanted one of his sons to be his successor of Ninshuu and he chose Asura, which made Indra butthurt, and thus started the brother's feud.--UltimaDude (talk) 19:28, March 19, 2016 (UTC)

Chapters 692, 693--Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 14:33, March 20, 2016 (UTC)

My point still stands. It was Hagoromo's decision to give Asura the leadership of Ninshuu that started the feud and him giving Naruto and Sasuke some of his power that continued the feud until it ended--UltimaDude (talk) 16:55, March 20, 2016 (UTC)
Can we also go back to the other part of the question about whether Asura even has Six Paths Sage Mode? Hagoromo is a confirmed user of Six Paths Senjutsu, but not Six Paths Sage Mode. Who's to say Asura can't have it in some other undefined way like his father?--BeyondRed (talk) 03:11, March 21, 2016 (UTC)
@UltimaDude, there's a thing such as reading from context. Doesn't make sense to talk about actual powers given to Naruto and Sasuke in relation to Ninshuu leadership that was given to Asura. Ninshuu is not a power, I thought Asura's philosophy was 'Love' to achieve peace while it was Indra's 'Power' so wouldn't make sense for Hagoromo to call Ninshuu leadership power, since the reason Asura was chosen instead is because of love philosophy in the first place. Hence it's quite obvious that Hagoromo meant having given an actual power to Asura. @Beyond, the two ways to get Six Paths Senjutsu is either to be a Ten-Tails jinchuuriki or be blessed by Hagoromo's power, Asura wasn't Ten-Tails jinchuuriki so just like Naruto who got blessed and got Six Paths Sage Mode, so must have been Asura.--Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 11:02, March 21, 2016 (UTC)
Except that you're taking things out-of-context. It doesn't make sense for Hagoromo to talk about giving Asura some of his actual power and regret that it caused his son's feud when such a thing happen. Read between the lines. Authority is considered power and it is that power that Hagoromo gave to Asura, not some of his actual power. Hagoromo giving Asura actual power wouldn't make any sense if he himself said that Asura's own power blossomed and it was because he got help from his friends and allies. I agree with BeyondRed. It makes no sense whatsoever to have Asura as a user of SPSM, if he doesn't have/wasn't shown with a chakra cloak and crossed pupils. Asura can use SPS with his own power, just like his dad, since his dad is the freaking Sage of Six Paths. It is just like how Indra can use Perfect Susanoo with only his MS--UltimaDude (talk) 19:33,March 21, 2016 (UTC)

So are we going to continue the discussion? --UltimaDude (talk) 21:02, April 14, 2016 (UTC)

Species

He's mostly human, genetically speaking and physically speaking he looks like a normal human. Shouldn't we classify him as just a human? A hybrid is an offspring from two distinct species and Hagoromo was both human and alien due to Tenji and Kaguya. Since Hagoromo is part human, regardless of whether or not he had an offspring with an Otsutsuki or human, his offspring would not be a hybrid.Cloudtheavenger (talk) 03:08, May 22, 2016 (UTC)

I believe a child gets 50% genes from each parent, so Asura and Indra each had 50% of Hagoromo's genes and he was half alien and I think 25% of someone's genes not being human still makes them hybrids.--Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 10:43, May 22, 2016 (UTC)
You guys do realize that they called Hagoromo and Hamura humans multiple times in the last episode? • Seelentau 愛 11:09, May 22, 2016 (UTC)
Yes and Hagoromo and Hamura had no idea their mom came from the sky. They were born among humans to walk with humans. It seems like the only reason it's thought by them and other people that they look different and have powers is because of chakra fruit that Kaguya ate. Later on Hagoromo and Hamura too distant themselves from humankind, with the whole 'Hamura destroy humankind if they start to abuse chakra for bad things' so Hagoromo and Hamura being labeled human by Gamamaru is because they have no idea about Kaguya's origin, Gamamaru says it himself, all he knows is that she came from the sky.--Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 11:37, May 22, 2016 (UTC)

Wasn't his name 'Ashura'?

I remember reading the manga on mangastream and he was always called: Ashura; why does the article has the name Asura instead of Ashura? Just really curious! --*MsIsamisa (talk) 02:42, June 23, 2016 (UTC)

See here. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 04:56, June 23, 2016 (UTC)

Wind Affinity

Can we say his affinity is wind (anime only)? It's well known people have an easier time learning their affinity than others.Cloudtheavenger (talk) 23:15, June 30, 2016 (UTC)

Ok... And? Sasuke first learned Fire, but in the anime, his affinity is Lightning...--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 23:30, June 30, 2016 (UTC)
He was taught by Fugaku meanwhile Asura tried all the elements and only could use Wind.Cloudtheavenger (talk) 05:43, July 1, 2016 (UTC)

Asura's Rasengan

I admit this and this techniques are wind release, but this technique in episode 468 is clearly Rasengan variation. Should we add Rasengan to his techniques, what do you think?--Mecha Naruto (talk) 15:21, July 21, 2016 (UTC)

Yes. He clearly used Rasengan there. WindStar7125 Divine Mangekyō Sharingan VolteMetalic 15:22, July 21, 2016 (UTC)
^ What he said. He's an anime-only user of Rasengan (Studio Pierrot were cheap and lazy to put that in) --Sajuuk 15:22, July 21, 2016 (UTC)
Cerez has a point, even if I disagree. Maaaan, I hate the anime sometimes... WindStar7125 Divine Mangekyō Sharingan VolteMetalic 19:19, July 22, 2016 (UTC)

Asura's powers

Shouldnt the six paths yin power and six paths yang power be added to his jutsu list. ok, honestly we never really saw him do anything amazing that has anything to do with said powers, but hagoromo did leave all his power to him which includes the power of yin and yang. also these are the same powers he seperated between naruto and sasuke as he did not want a repeat of what happenned asura and indra. --Me1 (talk) 21:21,July 21, 2016 (UTC)

The Six Paths Yin and Yang powers are just the seals on the hands, not the same as having Yin Release and Yang Release, which Asura should now have. Also, from we've seen, the seals appear to just be a temporary gift that goes back to Hagoromo once they're used.--BeyondRed (talk) 01:53, July 22, 2016 (UTC)
^What he said. That would just be adding misinterpreted speculation. WindStar7125 Divine Mangekyō Sharingan VolteMetalic 01:59, July 22, 2016 (UTC)

Six paths sage mode

Was it ever stated that Asura had Six Paths Sage Mode? Because if it wasn't, it should be removed. MartinZ02 (talk) 10:51, August 1, 2016 (UTC)

Inferred by the statement of Hagoromo giving Asura power, and comparing that to similar looking powers and their requirements. Discussions about it are scattered through relevant talk pages and its archives. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:38, August 1, 2016 (UTC)

Asura didn't receive power and SPSM

Asura didn't get actual power from his dad nor had SPSM. In chapter 670, Hagoromo stated that from training and cooperating with his comrades, Asura awakened his own power that rivals to that of his brother's. So why would Hagoromo meant that he gave Asura some of his own power if it contradicts what he said 23 chapters ago? Also where did it state that Asura obtained SPSM? Was he listed as a user because he had a chakra avatar to something that has nothing to do with the form (Tailed Beast Mode)? Can someone give me valid reasons as to why the wiki states he was given power and why he's listed as a user?--UltimaDude (talk) 22:59, February 4, 2017 (UTC)

Truth Seeking Balls/Orbs and also if that avatar thing happens to indeed be bijuu mode, then he must have been given power regardless, unless you believe he was born with bijuu mode. Furthermore, the anime actually shows Hagoromo giving Asura power.--Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 21:20, February 5, 2017 (UTC)
And when Hagoromo is literally giving Naruto and Sasuke powers, he says the difference that time is that he's giving them both instead of just one of the brothers. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:52, February 5, 2017 (UTC)
@Elvenora Asura obtained Truth-Seeking Balls on his own just like Hagoromo and his brother. In the same chapter where the chakra avatar was introduced, Hagoromo stated that Asura trained and cooperated with his comrades to awaken his dormant power that matched that of his brother's. No where did he state that he gave Asura power or that Asura became friends with Kurama. So I see no reason why Asura formed the avatar other than from his own power. The anime is completely irrelevant. @Omnibender If Hagoromo meant that he literally gave Asura his own power, then it would contradict what he said 23 chapters ago. Obviously he meant political power/authority (leadership over Ninshuu) which is what made Indra jelly. Why can't you see that?--UltimaDude (talk) 22:05, February 5, 2017 (UTC)
No, it doesn't. Asura reached power rivaling that of his brother naturally, through hard work and dedication, but nowhere does it state that his power didn't eventually surpass that of Indra, after having received a buff perhaps.

Furthermore, 1 of Asura's reincarnates, Hashirama, extremely powerful and talented awakened no Six Paths Senjutsu, while 2nd known incarnate, known for hard work and dedication also awakened no SPS, no... It had to be given to him, there is zero evidence SPS is part of Asura's birthright.--Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 22:31, February 5, 2017 (UTC)

Extremely weak argument considering that Hagoromo obtained Six Paths Senjutsu and Truth-Seeking Balls on his own with out becoming a TTJ, something Senjus, Uzumakis, and Uchihas can only dream of doing. Saying Hagoromo gave actual power to Asura is contradicting what he said about 20 chapters prior.--UltimaDude (talk) 01:42, February 6, 2017 (UTC)
It's not an argument, it's a fact. Hagoromo might or might not have awakened SPS on his own (we don't know it as a fact if he did, so stop saying it as if we do) but SPS certainly isn't part of what Asura inherited, those being his father's strong life force and physical energy.

Furthermore, SPS, if naturally awakened by Asura, wouldn't have put him on par with Indra, since the Mangekyou Sharingan as powerful as it can be, doesn't compare and measure to Six Paths Senjutsu, the Rinnegan does. In other words, if SPS for Asura had been natural, then the two weren't equals, because Asura would have been much stronger. Therefore you can deduce Asura was an equal without Six Paths Senjutsu and Bijuu Mode or whatever that is and there is zero canonical evidence that he had those naturally, thus he must have been literally given power by Hagoromo.--Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 10:46, February 6, 2017 (UTC)

Facts, my behind. We literally seen Hagoromo (from Kaguya's memories) and Hamura (from a flashback in The Last) have Truth-Seeking Balls. Where and how else will they get them without ever interacting with the the Ten-Tails' chakra? Six Paths Senjutsu certainly fits the "strong life force/physical energy/body" motif. What are even saying? You claimed that if Asura naturally had SPS, he would be stronger, then you go on saying that he was given power from Hagoromo. Suppose that Hagoromo did indeed give actual power to Asura, it would be in the form of SPS, and with that he and Indra still mutually destroyed each other. You are basically contradicting yourself. But regardless, these are the facts:
  • Hagoromo and Hamura had Truth-Seeking Balls without interacting with the Ten-Tails' chakra
  • Hagoromo stated that Asura trained and learned to cooperated with his friends which awakened his dormant power that rival that of Indra's. And within the same chapter, we see Asura's chakra avatar wielding Truth-Seeking Balls and battling Indra's PS
  • Asura obtaining leadership over Ninshuu was what made Indra butthurt and started the feud between the brothers
  • The databook didn't list Asura as a user of SPSM
  • There was absolutely no reason for Hagoromo to give Asura literal power

Not to mention, you say that Asura with SPS couldn't be equal to Indra who had just the MS. But do you not recall DMS Kakashi who was able to fend off against Kaguya and did more damage to her than Sasuke? Indra is the son of Hagoromo and was stated to have inherited his powerful chakra, so it makes sense that he and Asura were equals. So tell me, what evidence do you possibly have against all the ones I listed?--UltimaDude (talk) 21:36, February 6, 2017 (UTC)

Look son, I completely debunked your 'logic' so I understand your portrayal of frustration. I've never denied that Hagoromo was seen wielding TSB before becoming jinchuuriki and that Hamura had them too, I'm not stupid, son. What I'm unsuccessfuly so far trying to explain you here, is that Asura's birth inheritance has never been stated to be SPS. Strong life force and physical energy equaling SPS is a delusion right out your ass, son. Also his incarnates showed no SPS no matter the amount of hard work and dedication, repeating myself here, since your eyes must have completely dodged reason when they saw it.

But back to Hagoromo and Hamura, figure that perhaps, Hamura was the one born with SPS and Hagoromo received it from him, having been gifted by Hamura. Or perhaps Kaguya gifted them before she went fully insane, or perhaps Santa came on a flying reindeer and brought it for them. There is too many unknowns about that, but Madara, someone who literally recreated Hagoromo's chakra din't have SPS until he became a jinchuuriki, so there's that, son.--Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 22:13, February 6, 2017 (UTC)

Hahaha, so you are completely ignoring what has been stated and shown, figures. You have yet to bring in actual evidence that disproves my points, but instead bring up extremely flimsy explanations. Your argument is just as ridiculous as your "Asura was Kurama's jinchuriki". You only have one job and one job only. Give. Me. Proof. Now can you please do it properly like a good boy? --UltimaDude (talk) 22:23, February 6, 2017 (UTC)
Since you were the one who brought it up, the burden of proof is on your shoulders and so far, has been severely lacking, son. In fact I have more evidence. When Toneri recreated the Tenseigan, thus Hamura's power, he received the Truth Seeking Balls, while Madara, who recreated the Rinnegan, thus Hagoromo's power, didn't receive any Truth Seeking Balls.

Explain that, son.--Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 22:30, February 6, 2017 (UTC) Co

I already gave you a ton of facts, but you of course ignore it. To answer your question. The Rinnegan is only a part of Hagoromo's powers. The other part is obtained via the SP Ten-Tails Coffin Seal, hence why TTJs tend to look like the Sage. Now, address the facts I brought up. --UltimaDude (talk) 22:46, February 6, 2017 (UTC)
You explained nothing. If Hagoromo had SPS before becoming TTJ as power that's part of his chakra, then why didn't Madara, who recreated Hagoromo's chakra?--Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 23:08, February 6, 2017 (UTC)
I like how you keep ignoring the list of facts I have above. As I said, Madara recreated only a part of Hagromo's power when he awakened the Rinnegan. --UltimaDude (talk) 23:38, February 6, 2017 (UTC)
The Canon states that he recreated the entirety of Hagoromo's chakra.--Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 23:41, February 6, 2017 (UTC)
And canon states and shows that Asura awakened the chakra avatar and Truth-Seeking Balls on his own. Did it actually say that Madara obtained the entirety of Hagoromo's chakra. If Kaguya had Six Paths Senjutsu, then Hagoromo also had it on his own.--UltimaDude (talk) 23:56, February 6, 2017 (UTC)

Bump.--UltimaDude (talk) 00:44, February 16, 2017 (UTC)

Kunitsukami

Just wanted to point out that we now have a name for his battle avatar, thanks to his ability Six Paths: Kunitsukami (六道・国津守, Rikudō: Kunitsukami, lit. "Six Paths: Earthly God") in Naruto: Shinobi Collection Shippū Ranbu. Indra's Susano'o is also named Origin: Susano'o (根源・須佐能乎, Kongen: Susano'o). FF-Suzaku (talk) 20:29, January 7, 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for the info. Does that “collection” possess any other names we may be lacking at the moment? WindStar7125 Divine Mangekyō Sharingan VolteMetalic 20:53, January 7, 2019 (UTC)
I think I vaguely remember seeing video of these jutsu on youtube. However, this creates a possible issue. From anime settei, we have a name for the three heads six arms mode Naruto used as Asura Kurama Mode. I think it's more likely that this refers to the jutsu Asura used while in this mode in the game. The jutsu looks more like a variation of Kaguya's Expansive TSB. Also, since the last kanji is 守, and not 神, wouldn't the kami portion be something like guardian or protector? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:35, January 7, 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, I guess Guardian would be more accurate, though it's a reference to the term Kunitsukami which contrasts with the Amatsukami (heavenly gods). And the battle avatar that Asura uses is not Kurama or Asura Kurama, rather Asura Kurama Mode is a reference to the design of Asura's battle avatar. More importantly, this version of Asura is paired with the version of Indra that has the ability "Origin: Susano'o" and the card art and abilities for both of them depict them manifesting their "battle avatars" and attacking with them. [1] [2]

Honestly, there's a lot of random interesting stuff in that game. Lot of minor terms and names for things like clothing, weapons, chakra, and seals that appear in the game as equippable gear, including pretty obscure stuff, which may be useful. For example, Hagoromo, Hamura, Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto, and Ten Tails' Jinchuriki Madara all wear "Six Paths Haori" (六道羽織, Rikudō Haori), IE "Naruto's Six Paths Haori," "Madara's Six Path's Haori." The sun and moon seals on Naruto and Sasuke's hands are called "Palm Seals" (掌の印, Shō no In), IE "Naruto's Palm Seal" and "Sasuke's Palm Seal." The symbol of the interlocking black crescent moon and white sun that appears on Kaguya's third eye is called the "Sage of Six Paths Power Seal" (六道仙人の力の印, Rikudō Sennin no Chikara no In).

The mass of all the Tailed Beasts's chakra is called the "Complete Tailed Beasts' Chakra" (Zen-Bijū no Chakura), and can be equipped by Ten Tails' Jinchuriki Obito and Madara, Sage Mode Naruto, and Last Battle Sasuke. The individual moons he seals the Tailed Beasts in are called "Tailed Beast Sealing Stones" (尾獣封印の岩, Bijū Fūin no Iwa) and the combined Tailed Beast chakra contained inside Last Battle Sasuke's Susano'o is called the "Fused Tailed Beasts' Chakra" (融合された尾獣チャクラ, Yūgōsareta Bijū Chakura).

The chakra arms that Ten Tails' Jinchuriki Obito produces are called "Hands of Flame" (炎の手, Honō no Te) and the blue chakra arms that the Ninshu practitioners and Asura use are called "Hands of Bonds" (絆の手, Kizuna no Te).

The chakra of Asura and Indra that clings to their reincarnations are specifically called "Asura's Soul" (アシュラの魂, Ashura no Tamashi) and "Indra's Soul" (インドラの魂, Indora no Tamashi). The mark on Hagoromo's forehead is called "Hagoromo's Third Eye" (ハゴロモの第三の眼, Hagoromo no Daisan no Me). The curse Kaguya placed on Hamura is called "Mother Kaguya's Curse" (母カグヤの呪詛, Haha-Kaguya no Juso).

Perhaps worth noting that the one adult Kurama Chakra Mode Naruto unit they've released (based on his appearance at the Chunin Exams stadium when bringing out Kurama to protect everyone) can't use the "Six Paths Haori" or any of the other Six Paths gear ("Naruto's Truthseeker Orbs," "Naruto's Palm Seal") and also can't equip the previously mentioned "Complete Tailed Beasts' Chakra," but can equip "Nine Tails' Chakra" and the "Kurama Haori" which is used by his other Kurama Chakra Mode versions. The Gear for his unit that can use Asura Kurama Mode also seems to indicate that the Rasenshuriken he holds in his right hand for the Six Paths: Ultra-Big Ball Rasenshuriken is actually called "Six Paths Big Ball Rasenshuriken" (六道大玉螺旋手裏剣, Rikudō Ōdama Rasenshuriken), alongside the established Tailed Beast Ball Rasenshuriken in his left hand.

For specific jutsu... Indra's black fire dōjutsu is apparently named "Hinokagutsuchi" (火之加具土命), not Amaterasu. Indra also has an attack where he spreads purple flames with a slash of his Susano'o's sword, which is called "Shien no Kishin" (紫焔ノ鬼神, lit. "Purple Flames of the Fierce Deity"). Both of these are classified as "Sharingan" abilities. He also has a Lightning Style technique called "Tenma Shūrai" (天魔襲雷, lit. "Evil Spirit Lightning Strike") and a Fire Style technique called "Engoku Ikusagami" (炎獄戦神, lit. "Flaming Hell War God").

Asura has a Wind Style technique that resembles Naruto's Rasenshuriken called "Itō: Fūjin" (一刀・風刃, lit. "Single Strike: Wind Blade") in which he assumes an iai stance, concentrates spiralling wind chakra into his sword, and then draws it in an arcing slash, which sends a blade of wind towards his opponent. On impact it unleashes a squall that hurls the opponent into the air. He also has a Wood Style ninjutsu called "Bonds: Wood Golem Barrage" (絆・木人連打, Kizuna: Mokujin Renda). Additionally, Amenomihashira is listed as a Senjutsu technique and Six Paths: Kunitsukami is listed as a Six Paths technique.

Izuna has a Sharingan ability called "Uchiha Shungenjin" (うちは瞬幻刃, lit. "Uchiha Blinking Illusion Blade"), a Fire Style ability called "Uchiha Enjin: Hipyō" (うちは炎刃・火憑, lit. "Uchiha Flame Blade: Fire Haunting") in which he spits a stream of fire at them and then dashes past with a swift sword strike, and a Fire Style ability called "Enjin Ranbu" (炎刃乱舞, lit. "Flame Blade Wild Dance") in which he slashes his opponent several times with his flaming sword and then stabs them, causing them to erupt in flames.

I'm sure there's plenty more stuff to look through. FF-Suzaku (talk) 00:12, January 8, 2019 (UTC)

mfw even a video game puts more thought into the series than its mangaka • Seelentau 愛 01:09, January 8, 2019 (UTC)
@Tau, agreed. @Suzaku, whoa... impressively informative as always. To everyone, what's the next course of action? Should we compile all of these names en masse in a thread and disseminate them across the wiki? Should we take any further course of action at all? WindStar7125 Divine Mangekyō Sharingan VolteMetalic 06:44, January 8, 2019 (UTC)
This is cool and all, but someone please remind me, why do we use non-canon videogame stuff as representative of canon?--Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 08:43, January 8, 2019 (UTC)
It's not up to us to make any determination of what is or isn't canon, it's up to us to compile, organize, and cite what information is available to us. If the only source we have for a piece of information is taken from a game, then cite it as such. It's better to refer to a citable, official source, even a secondary one, than it is to just leave something blank, ambiguous, or to make up a name or interpretation, right? FF-Suzaku (talk) 14:34, January 8, 2019 (UTC)
Yup, we are archivist, it's not our job to fix the mistakes, omissions etc. the mangaka made. Of course we can try to make sense of things (as with Magnet Release), but other than that, we only do what you said: compile and organise. • Seelentau 愛 19:18, January 8, 2019 (UTC)
Regarding stuff that Suzaku mentioned, we already have one of Izuna's jutsu (as Uchiha Blaze Sword: Fire Possession, may need a fix in translation and moving), and we also have Six Paths: Flame Extinction Hand from Obito, also from that game. Based on name (we do have the kanji for it), I'd say it might be a related or even derived jutsu of the "Hands of Flame" mentioned above. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:47, January 17, 2019 (UTC)