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English or Most-Common name?

Do we use the most-common name, or do we use the Official name for naming things... because Viz uses "The Foundation" while most scanlations use "Root"... and it doesn't talk about us using official names or fan names.Shirokage 00:49, 12 October 2008 (UTC)shirokage

Viz is using "The Foundation", then uses of Root should be changed. We use official names, not poorly translated fan names. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion Oct 12, 2008 @ 02:00 (UTC)
I would like to point out Ne, does correctly translate into Root. So technically its not a poorly translated name but its english version. Just felt like pointing that out...^_^--TheUltimate3 03:41, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
Still, Ne was translated by VIZ as "The Foundation" so that's what NP should use.

Why do you guys assume that the English dub is correct or the most accurate? Watch the sub and the dub and notice the difference. Geijustu wa bakuhatsu da (talk) 11:41, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

Romaji v. "English" name

Again, I find errors in the rules.

The sentence regarding Pain says "When a character has not appeared in the dub or been listed in a databook, then Japanese romaji for their name is used for the primary name. " but it says "Pain not Pein". That makes no sense... The romaji says "Pein" so why isn't Pein used? [[User: Shirokage|<span style="background:Black; color:#FDF5E6">白</span><span style="color:Black">影</span>]] [[User talk: Shirokage|<sup>Talk to Shirokage</sup>]] 02:16, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, forgot to click "Raw signature"... Talk to Shirokage 02:17, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Because Pain has appeared in a databook as "Pain". Perhaps the sections are not clear, you could fix them up. The issue looks like you are confused about what note is for what examples. The examples are below the note on them. If you read it that way then the page should start to make more sense to you. Open for suggestions on what kind of formatting will make that easier to see. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Dec 17, 2008 @ 02:50 (UTC)
I was reading it wrong. I thought the part "When a character has not appeared in the dub or been listed in a databook, then Japanese romaji for their name is used for the primary name. " was for Pain, while it was "hen a character has not yet appeared in the English dub then the Official name listed in the latest version of the databook should be used as the primary name." (i.e. I thought the rule was below the example, when it was vice versa). Talk to Shirokage 02:10, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Jutsu Names

The Jutsu names section completely violates almost all rules set in English anime Wiki's. English names should always be used. This is not a fan database, it is a formal encyclopedia, and thus English names should be used. Talk to Shirokage 02:15, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

There was a large discussion on how to name jutsu awhile back. We decided on sticking with the literal translation of the kanji for the justu name. The main rationales I can remember were:
  • The Japanese name of the jutsu is the most correct original form of a name.
  • However both the kanji and romaji forms of most jutsu names are extremely hard for English readers to understand and would make reading articles tough.
  • There is an extreme quantity of Jutsu, many of these take ages before they ever get an official English name.
  • If we opted for using some variant of the Japanese name till the English name came out, then the wiki would end up extremely inconsistent and it would be extremely hard to keep it up to date.
  • Using literal translations also makes us reasonably compatible with Wikipedia's content.
Do understand that we are not using fan names, we are using the literal translation of the kanji (As you can see by our use of Fire Release: Intelligent Hard Work instead of "Fire Release: Cranium Carver" which is the fan name used by fansubs). Also understand that this policy is far from violating things as you think, in fact I believe Wikipedia pretty much uses the same policy on naruto jutsu names. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Dec 18, 2008 @ 03:22 (UTC)
Wikipedia always uses the official name, unless there is none, in which case the most common name is used for "Fire Release: Intelligent Hard Work" "Fire Release: Cranium Carver" would have been used (most likely, as it's the common name). Read Wikipedia:WP:MOS-JP, and Wikipedia:WP:MOS-AM. Talk to Shirokage 20:18, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Dub names

Why do we use dub names? wouldn't manga names be better since you know, dubs aren't always accurate and prone to changes. Look at Dragon Ball to understand what I'm talking about--{{SUBST:User:Rod/autosig}} 20:59, April 22, 2010 (UTC)

Where is there a dub name? ~SnapperTo 22:36, April 22, 2010 (UTC)

Bogus edit

Someone has misinterpreted the Naming policy. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this policy is for the naming of articles right ? This does not affect images or fair use rationales ? If so, then that edit should just be reverted. TheUltimate3 has added that just to push his completely stupid, opinionated edit on a rationale for no reason at all. Since when has it been wrong to use [[Edo Tensei]] in a fair use rationale ?????? Someone tell me I'm not going mad here and that everything I'm saying right here is right. --Speysider Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | My Wiki | Channel 22:43, August 7, 2012 (UTC)

Part of proving that yes, this was the standard long before you graced our halls. More to follow.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 23:07, August 7, 2012 (UTC)
Nobody is questioning the standard for article pages, what I'm questioning is your edit since it seems like it was made for the purpose of our little argument so you can stop me and everyone else from using redirect links on rationales, which has not been a problem for several years, until you decided to just randomly edit it for no reason whatsoever. I would also like it if you could not be involved here, because you will just cause an argument that I'm sick and tired of having. --Speysider Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | My Wiki | Channel 23:10, August 7, 2012 (UTC)
Who's to say they weren't a problem years ago? If you hadn't noticed there are tons of things that should get don't that hasn't. And I don't want to cause an argument, I try to go out of my way not to talk to you at all. But, here we are.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 23:19, August 7, 2012 (UTC)
The promised second link. to quote the part I care about;

"About our naming policy: It seems to me that we actually have a consistently used, if unwritten, naming policy. For the most part, any way... Technique names are literally translated, Technique categories (Ninjutsu, Kinjutsu, Hiden Jutsu) are left untranslated, The two most important techniques in the series (Rasengan and Chidori) are also left untranslated, Ninja ranks (Jōnin, ANBU, Kage) are also left untranslated, Country names (Land of Fire, Land of Rivers) are translated, Village names (Konohagakure, Sunagakure) are left untranslated, Other terms not unique to the series (Shuriken, Smoke Bomb) are translated only if they are either not well-known or usually translated, Other terms unique to the series (Tailed Beast, Nature Transformation) are usually translated. There are exceptions, of course. Life Transfer Techniques, the Foundation, Jinchūriki, Shinra Tensei, ... These can be solved with proper, written guidelines, though. Still, on the whole, we do seem to have a naming policy."

It has been edited, naturally over the course of the years, but it's pretty much this.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 23:29, August 7, 2012 (UTC)

Speysider, I don't see how that edit is in any way relevant to what you are talking about. TU3 clarified how we handle locations and fixed the justu name section to reflect the naming policy that we've grown into enforcing over the years. That edit changes absolutely nothing to do with whether the policy applies to image pages or not. It looks like you're just picking random changes to the wiki that have nothing to do with you and acting as if they are an offence to you.

And there is no point to bringing "Edo Tensei" into this discussion because we're not debating whether or not that's the standard name to go by, because if you were you'd be having the discussion on Talk:Summoning: Impure World Reincarnation where it seems undebated that "Edo Tensei" is not the standard name we use on the wiki. ~ Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (Local TalkAnimanga Talk) 06:13, August 8, 2012 (UTC)

Considering that the edit was made within 10 minutes of an image row, it's obvious I'm going to assume it was made on part of that row. But whatever. Everyone here makes me look to be a bad guy for no apparent reason when I don't even do anything wrong. --Speysider Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | My Wiki | Channel 11:11, August 8, 2012 (UTC)

I have not followed this discussion from the beginning, and I will not track it down across pages left and right, but from what I could understand here, this is about using redirects to link to articles in the description fields of fair-use rationales right? Regardless of any policy, I find it best for the article's actual name, be it whatever it is according to our translation status quo. I don't think that it's necessary to use redirects in those rationales. The purpose of a redirect to is to cut down the length of text needed for a link. In content articles, that plays a big role keeping size down, but images don't have much content, so putting one full link doesn't really hurt it. The one case I support using redirects in rationales is for character names. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:56, August 8, 2012 (UTC)

Yes. However, [[Edo Tensei]] sounds way better than [[Summoning Impure World Reincarnation]], considering that's what they use in the subs. And in a lot of rationales for my technique images, I always link to the full name article and not a redirect, except I just set the text to display as the Romaji but it still links to the actual technique's page. TU3 seemingly has a problem with that when it's never been an issue in rationale's. Hell, even Cerez and other editors use the redirects for some techniques in their rationales, this has only been made an issue because it was on an image I had uploaded :/ --Speysider Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | My Wiki | Channel 21:59, August 8, 2012 (UTC)
Would just like to point out, that the anime does not in fact use Edo Tensei (well, yeah they do but only when spoken.) The official subs use Reanimation Jutsu, and I assume English does the same if it has gotten that far cause I know how Viz likes to keep things consistent.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 22:08, August 8, 2012 (UTC)

Policy Maintenance - Character Names

This has been a topic of many previous discussions (including some of my own). The character naming policy has not been fully adhered to and should either be adopted or revised to avoid confusion with new editors. The policy currently states that the English dubbed character names should prevail. The most famous example concerns A and Killer B. These characters' names are spelled out as Ay and Bee according to the dub, although their Japanese names are obviously meant to translate to the English letters A and B. This site uses the literal translation for their names (along with C, etc.) rather than the name provided by the dub. Not trying to add more work but the policy should probably be clarified just to keep things consistent. Dayshwon1998 (talk) 23:39, May 19, 2018 (UTC)

Wait... they're "spelled out" in the dub? So they say "Ay-Why" and "Bee-E-E"? Because that's what "spelled out" means. Or maybe you're confusing some things here, dunno. • Seelentau 愛 00:20, May 20, 2018 (UTC)
No. They are pronounced just as you would expect them to be (just like the English letters). They are called "Ay" and "Killer Bee" according to the dub, yet this site uses "A" and "Killer B" contrary to the character naming policy. Dayshwon1998 (talk) 00:27, May 20, 2018 (UTC)
Welp, looks like you're right. You can go ahead and create a topic on the consensus board if you want. Or just move the articles. • Seelentau 愛 01:22, May 20, 2018 (UTC)
I think persons would sooner move to have the policy updated. We’ve always gone with the literal translations(?) I believe. All the article name discussions that have taken place in the past reached that concensus.—Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 01:25, May 20, 2018 (UTC)
Probably because nobody bothered to look at the policy. It has been in the current form for over six years, so whatever we did in that timespan was simply wrong, including "going with the literal translation". The correct names should've been "Ay" and "Killer Bee" from the very beginning. Not that I like it. • Seelentau 愛 01:30, May 20, 2018 (UTC)
Not look at, but no one bothered to change it. If you follow most any thread with regards to naming articles, then consensus reached was to use literal translations for characters, techniques etc… —Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 01:39, May 20, 2018 (UTC)
Either way works fine, my point was to simply have the names consistent with the policy, whether that means using the dub names or updating the policy. I am willing to help either way however I can. Dayshwon1998 (talk) 01:41, May 20, 2018 (UTC)
I can't really remember when the last time was that we had to discuss the naming of a character... but that consensus would've been formed under a false premise, anyway. • Seelentau 愛 01:42, May 20, 2018 (UTC)

The correct naming is sometimes ambiguous. Another example is Guy's father (named here as Might Duy, in Japanese as Maito Dai). Both Viz and the dub use "Might Dai," but "Dai" does not really translate into an English word like "Gai" does. I've only ever seen "Duy" used on this site. Dayshwon1998 (talk) 01:51, May 20, 2018 (UTC)

It's not if you understand Japanese^^ • Seelentau 愛 02:07, May 20, 2018 (UTC)
Japanese is not my strength, but to my knowledge, "Maito Gai" is most certainly translated to "Might Guy," and Viz and the dub confirm that. "Maito Dai" is not as simple. "Maito" should translate to "Might," but "Dai" does not really translate into an English word (except maybe "die"). The dub just makes things more confusing, calling him "Might Dai." We could either discuss what the name does actually translate to, or in this case adopting the dub's name would probably be easier, in my opinion. Dayshwon1998 (talk) 02:12, May 20, 2018 (UTC)
That's not what a translation is, though. And as I said, if the English dub calls them something else than we do, we should change it according to the policy that has been in effect for the past decade or so. • Seelentau 愛 02:20, May 20, 2018 (UTC)
Okay then. It's probably a lot of work but I can help with that. Is there any shortcut to changing each instance of their names throughout all the articles? Dayshwon1998 (talk) 02:23, May 20, 2018 (UTC)
We could let a bot do that, but I have no clue who has an active bot these days^^ • Seelentau 愛 02:27, May 20, 2018 (UTC)

Interesting development... do we update the policy or change names across the wiki to fit the dub? Personally, I'd favor continuing to use the most accurate translations and thus doing the former. I may be a bit reticent in vocally supporting performing the latter action in a consensus discussion, but if it must be done, we could change the names manually. However, the (possible) side effect of manual editing could be that it can potentially FUBAR and make a hash of the SMW we have implemented here. I would hope a bot could circumvent that conceivable outcome of breaking things, and if it can, we can poke UltimateSupreme to use his since he has an active one. EDIT: I think moving the page over a redirect could also avoid messing SMW stuff up, iirc. If that's the case, we may not have to use a bot then, especially in the case that UltimateSupreme is not responsive, since he's been inactive for some time now. WindStar7125 Divine Mangekyō Sharingan VolteMetalic 06:51, May 20, 2018 (UTC)

Although it would mean more work, really it should be done at least until the policy is discussed, because right now those names are not following the policy. It’s understandable that these names did not follow the dub convention because most of these articles were made long before these characters were introduced in the dub, but now the dub is almost complete and their names are available. Dayshwon1998 (talk) 10:58, May 20, 2018 (UTC)
This really boils down to two things: become a wiki focused on how the English Dub does things (effectively throwing away years of established practice on this wiki) or keep things like they are and just update the policy? For me, if I hadn't been a long time editor here, I'd just go with the former: however, given how long the wiki has been around, I think it's just better the policy be updated.
Also, you are incorrect about the dub. The dub started in 2005 (according to the wiki), but this wiki was created in 2008. By that point, the dub had already reached the end of Part 1 of the Naruto manga (pre-timeskip) and was already into the 80+ episodic fillers that had been added, which means any decisions on how to format articles on this wiki would have been made. --Sajuuk 12:20, May 20, 2018 (UTC)
Yes, but characters such as A and Killer B were introduced in the manga, databooks, Japanese anime, and this site well before the dubbed episodes introducing them were released. By the time they were released we had already decided names for them via one of those other sources. For example, Guy's father was only introduced in the dub at the beginning of 2018 (called Might Dai according to the dub). This was long after we reached consensus for "Might Duy." Dayshwon1998 (talk) 12:28, May 20, 2018 (UTC)

Alright, time to end the critical thinking test. Of course we're not going to move the articles just because we ignored a policy. The policies are man-made after all, we don't absolutely have to follow them and we can adjust them if they're outdated. In this case, yes, we did ignore the policy back when we established "A" and "Killer B" as the names we use, but considering that those names have long since been accepted by and ingrained into the community, it would simply be counter-productive to change them just because of a random sentence in an arbitrary set of rules. After all, we've never been a wiki that follows the English dub and as with all things, one should not forget to apply common sense, right? So if nobody minds, we can delete that sentence. • Seelentau 愛 12:46, May 20, 2018 (UTC)

I concur. It would make more sense to simply modify the policy. Dayshwon1998 (talk) 12:50, May 20, 2018 (UTC)
Agreed. @Seelentau, if you would. Bear in mind that editing policy articles are restricted.—Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 13:03, May 20, 2018 (UTC)