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Talk:Jiraiya

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Is the anime pictures not always prefered instead of manga images? Also seeing how Hiruzen and Minato is seen in the background, i think such things really ruins the profile images especially seeing the size of the image compared to the many other profile image. Yes it is high quality and it shows his full body, but as pointed out, none of the other profile images does so and they are all anime if possible. Also i think the one i suggested is not so bad even though he leans his face on his hand, it is still one of the best images i could find from the newest episodes. --Gojita (talk) 13:28, July 15, 2010 (UTC)Gojita

Actually, coloured manga images are preferred over anime images. You're correct in saying the Third and Fourth Hokage detract from the image, but nowhere near as much as to make the image unusable. Jiraiya is still clearly the centrepiece and can be seen perfectly fine.
Also, I personally think a profile image should show as much of a character as possible in the best quality possible. --ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 13:36, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
So... we can only agree on disagreeing? --Gojita (talk) 13:37, July 15, 2010 (UTC)Gojita
Unless one of us can actually convince the other and reach consensus, I guess.
Let me get things straight. You don't like my image because:
  1. It has parts of the Third and Fourth Hokage.
  2. It's a full-body shot, which most other profiles do not have.
As for the first point, I simply do not think that detracts from the image too much. I would prefer one without them, but having them there would not be an immediate reason to forego its use.
As for the second point, that is actually something I would like to see changed. In fact, characters like Ao, Chōjūrō, Akatsuchi, and Kurotsuchi had (black-and-white) full-body shots until they were replaced by smaller colour images. --ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 13:55, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
Well replacing full body shots with smaller ones that only have the image of the head and a small piece of their upper boddy seems to be a natural course on this wikia. Seems our main disagreement lies within the fact that it is is a full body shot. Personally i would like to find such a good one from one of the newest episodes, like the one suggested, but since he is dead that has become extremlyn difficult. --Gojita (talk) 14:03, July 15, 2010 (UTC)Gojita
Why go to the anime for images when there are great colour images from Kishimoto-sensei himself? --ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 14:13, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
File:Jiraiya Part II.jpg
File:Jiraiya Part II 2.jpg
Good point. I think it's because i feel the anime colours are much more clear, at least the one you found is good, but still a little bit shaddy. Another point that comes to mind is that the picture you found is a little bit to cropped compared to many others. You know what, i think i will go through some episodes and see what i can find. Maybe i can come up with some suggestions you would like. --Gojita (talk) 14:18, July 15, 2010 (UTC)Gojita
It would seem now that i am not the only one who disagree with your use of the manga image. Could that perhaps convince you. Also i have found another alternative although the colour is a tad bit to shady.
I've tried a couple times to find a good anime picture of Jiraiya, but with little success. Gojita's second option is an improvement to what was there, but the Amegakure overcast skews the colors. While I do like the new image better, I'm not a fan of having full-body shots in the infobox. ~SnapperTo 16:18, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
I would that the darknened colours could be okay seeing that we have done the same thing with Hashirama's profile image. --Gojita (talk) 16:24, July 15, 2010 (UTC)Gojita
What's wrong with full-body shots in the infobox? Shouldn't the main image be the best representation of the character we have? A full-body shot would be just that.
Also, if it really is only the full-body image, I could just as easily crop it a bit. --ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 16:27, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
As pointed out before i also have a problem with the fact that the image is exremly cropped in as it is already. Also yeah they should have the best representation, but i believe such large pictures are overdoing it. Looking around at the other profile images such as the ones used in the hokage articles, i feel they are much better. But of course that was also a luck of the draw kind a thing getting so many good images from those episodes of Madara's flashback. But please do try cropping it in a little bit and put it up here in the discussion page. --Gojita (talk) 16:31, July 15, 2010 (UTC)Gojita
What do you mean with "extremely cropped in"? --ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 16:44, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
As in it leaves a lot of free space around it in the infobox, that mostly does not happen when an anime image is used, which i believe is looking better. On to another point. Where is Snapper when we need a tie breaker? --Gojita (talk) 16:50, July 15, 2010 (UTC)Gojita
Snapper is getting edit conflicts.
I dislike full-body shots as the main image through a combination of the blank space they create and the fact that I'm so accustomed to just face-shots. It's probably also because of some of the truly awful full-body shots the One Piece wiki insists on using. If a cropped version were used instead and the full-body put somewhere else, I'd be happy. ~SnapperTo 16:55, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
I could look through old & new epis for a suitable pic if it'll help...AlienGamer (UserpageTalk) 16:59, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
Oh, and i think the manga image looks terribly out of place in comparison to the rest of the articles in the wikia. And the infobox doesn't look to good when only a 4th of its pic section is used...AlienGamer (UserpageTalk) 17:01, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
File:Jiraiya Profile small.png
Here's an example of a smaller version of my image. --ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 17:19, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
AlienGamer please do look something through, perhaps you can find something i couldn't. That edited image looks good ShounenSuki but the format still does not look good. Sorry! --Gojita (talk) 17:30, July 15, 2010 (UTC)Gojita

I see a sudden (and to me unnecessary) massive change of everyone's infobox turning into manga images at the end of this discussion. That being said, I see absolutely nothing wrong with the image we already have.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 17:36, July 15, 2010 (UTC)

I like the cropped image. I also skimmed through Part I anime screenshots and these ([1], [2], [3]) were the "best" I could find. It's amazing how rare it is for Jiraiya to not have a stupid look on his face. ~SnapperTo 17:46, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
@TheUltimate3: The original source of this series is still Kishimoto Masashi-sensei. If there is a perfectly good, coloured image drawn by him available, why on earth would we use a second-hand anime image? It makes no sense, especially considering how the anime almost consistently manages to screw things up. They haven't once coloured Jiraiya's wart properly. --ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 17:54, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
A wart is a problem :S Well, moving right along...I have a few good options which i'll upload @ photoshack and link back here. Btw ShounenSuki, the anime IS done by permission from the author. I doubt MK will authorize something he disapproves. And Manga imapges have a very limited colour depth, where as in the Anime, u'r not held back by those limitations...AlienGamer (UserpageTalk) 17:58, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
Still think it will lead to a unnecessarily large massive change. Plus, though I doubt it'll change much, I hate full body shots in infoboxes. Those annoy the hell out of me. They really do. If you need a full body shot, that crap can go in the appearance (if the article even has one), personality, or some other section.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 17:59, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
File:Jiraiya01.PNG
250px
Before I upolad the rest to photoshack, I thought this image looks pretty good. Its from the 3rd episode..AlienGamer (UserpageTalk) 18:09, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
@AlienGamer: Once the author has sold the rights to an anime adaptation (which usually doesn't even involve them, but goes through their publisher), the author has absolutely no control over the anime any more. The owners of the anime can decide to completely and utterly change the story, characters, and designs to their likely, if they so wish.
Also, how do manga images have a limited colour depth? Because they don't look like Saturday morning cartoons? The manga images show how the actual author imagines how the characters look. That includes the colours, even the colours of warts.
@TheUltimate3: I already conceded on the full-body shots. I might like them, but I do not consider them to be vital to an article. As for the massive change, don't worry about that. there simply aren't enough good, coloured manga images out there to cause that.
--ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 18:11, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
What i meant by limited colour depth, is drawing images can only take you so far. You can clearly see the difference in colour between a normal anime image, and a colour manga image. My opinion anyway. I'm as hardcore for anime as you are for manga, so our opinions there will always clash...AlienGamer (UserpageTalk) 18:16, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
File:Jiraiya Infobox.jpg
File:Jiraiya Infobox 1.jpg
Just to give you guys some better way of comparing two possiblities. --Gojita (talk) 18:28, July 15, 2010 (UTC)Gojita
@AlienGamer: That difference between the anime and manga is actually caused mainly by the limited colour depth of the anime, rather than the manga. --ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 18:33, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
And here are the options from imageshack: 1, 2, 3 & 4...AlienGamer (UserpageTalk) 18:34, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
Number three seems like a good one. --Gojita (talk) 18:43, July 15, 2010 (UTC)Gojita
A few more options 5, 6 & 7..AlienGamer (UserpageTalk) 19:05, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
the reason I don't like full body shots is because they over do it. A infobox image is supposed to be like a mugshot. A shot at the character's face in a (usually) neutral expression. A quick glance at the character before going down into the article. Start throwing in full body shots and then all of a sudden a infobox gets longer than needed, and then they just get downright stupid when you add all the other things our infoboxes have.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 19:07, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
That being said, I like picture 3. Seems more profile-ish--TheUltimate3 (talk) 19:09, July 15, 2010 (UTC)

I just skimmed through the discussion very quickly, so there's a chance I'll say something that was already said. While I agree with ShounenSuki's "if we have good quality colored manga pictures, we should use them because they come from Kishimoto", I don't think it should be applied universally. In cases such as characters who look too different from the manga, like Hanzo, I agree that manga is preferable, be it color or black and white. But in cases like this, I think that manga colored images should be used only if there is no suitable good quality anime option. It feels rather odd for there to be one manga image in the middle of many anime images. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:06, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

I still believe that, if possible, a coloured manga image should be used instead of an anime image. However, compromises have to be made. Would it be acceptable to use an anime image in the infobox, but still use a manga image somewhere else in the artcile. The appearance section, for instance? --ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 01:26, July 16, 2010 (UTC)
Since the anime doesn't provide a lot of full-body opportunities, manga images for that seems fine. ~SnapperTo 02:22, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

So shud i upload 3?..AlienGamer (UserpageTalk) 11:06, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

I like the third image the best as well. --ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 11:45, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

A colored manga image in the appearance section would be fine. Or maybe in a creation and conception section, kinda like we have with Konan's sketches. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:31, July 17, 2010 (UTC)

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