|Forums: Index → Help desk → Video game jutsu overhaul||Post|
- For the complied list of jutsu names, see the subpage.
So, as many of the regular users know, our video game jutsu coverage is far from thorough, due to various reasons. For a while now, I have looked up and bookmarked several sites which provide moveset lists for various characters, in various games. Most of the ones I have are for the Ultimate Ninja series. I would have created the articles myself, but there's a problem in that. Those sites list only the name of the technique, and the commands for it. They give no description of what the technique does. I'd be creating several articles limited to saying name of the technique, user, and game debut, with my limited translation knowledge coming from Tangorin.com, wiktionary and Google Translate. Maybe some jutsu classification, depending on the technique's name and user. Does anyone have access to Naruto games, who could fill out the description of the techniques? Movesets of Naruto games in general are available at YouTube, if you know how to look for it, and there are several browser extensions for downloading YouTube videos, so screenshots would be easy to get once you know what each technique is. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:07, November 26, 2012 (UTC)
- I myself own naruto ultimate ninja 1, 2, 3, and 4, as well as uzumaki naruto chronicles 2 (i used to have 1 as well), and naruto ultimate ninja heroes 1 and 3, and naruto shippuden ultimate ninja impact. I could help out with some, and i could help find some gameplay videos too.126.96.36.199 (talk) 01:41, November 26, 2012 (UTC) Yhwach
I've got Ultimate Ninja 4, Storm 1 & 2 and Uzumaki Chronicles 2. I can also ask around my friends to borrow a couple others like Chronicles 1 and one or two others. I'm not great with screenshots, have to take them with my phone and I don't always time it well, but I'm a half decent wordsmith and if you've got the footage I can write up articles just fine. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 02:16, November 26, 2012 (UTC)
- I'm pretty good with describing the techniques too.188.8.131.52 (talk) 18:22, November 26, 2012 (UTC) Yhwach
Ok. I would like to go through the games chronologically. I've seen a few of the lists, and there are overlapping techniques, so this way we have the least chance of getting a game debut wrong. Anon, you said you have UN1. While we see the movesets for UN2 (the earliest game I have movesets for), could you check if they match the ones from UN1? As far as all these games go, I recall seeing in a video about the games that they have a moveset list in the pause menu, so that's a way of seeing if they match. Another question, in these games, is it possible to change the audio and text to Japanese? This way we get cross check the English video game with the Japanese name. You may also consider making an account, since your IP can change, which would make it hard to contact you. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:34, November 26, 2012 (UTC)
- I'll check. Thank god UN1 doesn't have like forty charectors. Also yes alot of naruto games (especially the ultimate ninja games) have the choice to change the audio to japanese, but not the text.184.108.40.206 (talk) 23:48, November 26, 2012 (UTC) Yhwach
- In the moveset list in the games, I believe they show the button sequences right? That can be checked to see if the name associated with the technique is different. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:52, November 26, 2012 (UTC)
- Yeah the button sequences can be shown.220.127.116.11 (talk) 00:00, November 27, 2012 (UTC) Yhwach
Ok. In this site, there are the movesets for Ultimate Ninja 2. Technically in that site they have stuff on Ultimate Ninja 1 to 3, but they only have movesets for 2. Character names in the middle row are very obvious. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:41, November 29, 2012 (UTC)
Sorry i haven't gotten this done sooner, but with school and christmas/new years stuff and the fact that i don't know where i put ultimate ninja 2 at. So i looked up on that site called game facts and found the movelist for UN2. Also it turns out that the Japanese Audio thing started in ultimate ninja 2 and onwards, but i'm still looking for the raw traanslations of the attacks names. I only found like 5 or 6 technique from UN1 that werent in UN2. Should i just post the jutsu articles and clean them up when i got everything or do i wait t'ill i got everything and then post it?18.104.22.168 (talk) 19:31, January 1, 2013 (UTC) Yomiko-chan
Also one of Zabuza's attacks could be re-named in UN2 but since i lost the game i can't tell if it's the same. If someone else could check Zabuza's movelist in the practice mode of the game for me it would be greatly appreciated. UN1 called it Death Slash where he delivers a low kick followed by 3 sword slashes, the last one smashing the enemy into the ground. There's a possibility that it was renamed as either Flying Turn Slash, Scatter Burst Slash, or Spinning Back Slash.22.214.171.124 (talk) 20:47, January 1, 2013 (UTC) Yomiko-chan
- Like I said, out coverage of video games is rather poor in the jutsu department. We have the plot of the game in the game articles, with have game characters, game items. Besides, we've had several game jutsu articles already. Going after the names I got here got me the correct titles for tens of jutsu we had, but that were incorrectly named. And besides, it's not like it's going to clog other pages. Most game jutsu nowadays can only be found by clicking to see all of a character's jutsu, in that infobox link. I rather we have them by their correct name, by ourselves, than have random people add it, without us knowing if it's correct and having to chase the jutsu down afterward. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:37, October 26, 2013 (UTC)
- I'm not suggesting it's a lost venture, just that an article for each and every jutsu is the wrong approach. Because the articles on video game jutsu are consistently a) short and of poor quality, b) have little to no video game-relevant data and are therefore useless to those few who are interested in the first place, and c) are likely to only ever be read when using special:random. I think it would be better if each video game had its own subpage where movesets for each character are listed. That way you can provide all the name information you're compiling, easily add button combinations and attack damage for that crowd, and not overrun the wiki with articles that will never improve. Because you've got over two-thousand jutsu so far and only eleven games. Even assuming there are some duplicates, that's a ridiculous amount of articles to be making. ~SnapperTo 21:56, October 26, 2013 (UTC)
- I really don't feel the wiki is benefiting from all of these articles you're making. ~SnapperTo 21:00, January 19, 2014 (UTC)
- I made a sample of a jutsu subpage here. Yagura is the only one I filled out beyond the initial GameFAQs copy. It could stand to be organized better and be more aesthetic, but I feel it's simpler and more useful than making a few hundred articles. ~SnapperTo 20:22, January 20, 2014 (UTC)
- Hum, going by the fields there, it's not as informative about the techniques in general, but it does give me an idea for similar pages. I don't think that simply lumping together all video game jutsu from all characters from all games is the way to go. Actual jutsu and ougi aside (supposing those aren't scrapped as well), I think there we should have character specific pages. For example, using one of the more recently introduced characters in video games, like Hanzō or Darui. "So and so's video-game techniques", where the jutsu introduced in games would go. Techniques could be broken down by the game they were introduced. I don't think it's necessary for us to list the button sequence, though I do think we should retain information that can be filled in the form, like classification, range, etc. In a rough comparison, imagine each of those articles kinda like a volume article, with each game acting as a chapter, maybe being collapsible for space. Something that at least in theory sounds feasible is for each of those articles to retain the filled form, but as a redirect, so the semantic info is still out there. I know that putting something that looks like the form would take too much space, so instead the info could be displayed in a similar way to pre-infobox days of yore? Is that possible? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 14:21, January 22, 2014 (UTC)
- Ok, here is something like my general idea. I made it first with Mifune because since he's recent, there are few techniques. My idea is to list the technique only in the game it first appears in. Images could be added in each section, like we do with proper jutsu articles. I did not include awakening action/jutsu/ougi since those tend to be more distinct that general combos. In the event of one those combos appearing in the manga and anime, or instead the combo being something that went unnamed in the manga and anime, we could "graduate" it into a proper jutsu article, think Sasori's Prepared Puppet: Eight Waves of Needles and Prosthetic Arm Needles. For characters who appear in more than one game, make each game section collapsible. Now the part potentially complicated part I mentioned before, the semantic data. Is it possible to simply leave a form with the filled out infobox, and redirect it to the section in the page? This way the info is still out there to be parsed and listed, but all the descriptions, since they're small, are in the same page. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:52, January 22, 2014 (UTC)
- pre edit-conflict
- I don't think Classification, Class, and Range are tidbits that need preserving; they're completely at the discretion of whoever edits the article (which should be discouraged on a wiki), tend to be the same from jutsu to jutsu (since they're fighting games, everything's offensive and short range), and have layers of overlap that do not typically appear elsewhere in the series (taijutsu and ninjutsu do not exist simultaneously nearly as often in the anime and manga as they do with these video game moves). Button sequences are at least objective and communicate some amount of complexity of the move, which description alone may not represent accurately.
- Subpages-by-character is an approach I also thought of. It would help with cross-referencing a character's moveset from game to game. How to organize it would need to be considered and size issues might start to become a problem for characters like Naruto who appear in every game. But it's got an appeal. From a reader's perspective, though, I think the subpage-by-game would be more valuable. If I'm looking at a character's movelist I'm likely only interested in what they do in one game. If all the other moves on the particular subpage are also from that same game, then all the more convenient for me. But both approaches have their pros and cons and both can be linked to from wherever pretty easily.
- As I said, I do not personally see the value of Classification, Class, and Range. Unless you're wanting nature type and etc., which I forgot about? I still don't see the need, but that at least makes more sense. If there's something with semantics that's going to be done, I believe they would need to be applied to soft redirects, since normal redirects apply the semantic properties to the target page (?). Or maybe you're meaning some kind of transclusion?
- post edit-conflict
- I look at things as I would if I were a reader. I realize the things that interest/do not interest me are not the same for everyone, but it's how I evaluate things. Having said that:
- If I'm looking at a video game topic, I want it in a video game-context. This is where buttons and in-game conditions like health and costumes come in. These are the things I want to know. What I do not particularly care about are classifications from the manga's databooks being transposed onto the video game information for some abstract reason. In your example, all of those jutsu are listed as offensive and short range. Those really mean nothing to me from a video game perspective, and the fact that there's no variance from one to the other causes me to dismiss them entirely. They're all kenjutsu too, which I suppose is interesting, but now I feel my reading comprehension is being challenged since each description already mentions swords in some way. Meanwhile, there's nothing video game-pertinent that I have to gander over beyond the character's name, which video game it is, and a description I do not know what to make of without more information. It's unrealistic for me to expect frametime or typical hp damage for games like these, but I would at least like something.
- To paraphrase, I think that the the wiki's habit of treating video game jutsu in the same way as animanga jutsu has been a mistake.
- Re: images - This might actually be an opportunity to explore videos. There's not as much of a legal gray area with video game videos as there are with anime and manga hosting, so links to movelist demonstrations could just be provided in place of a couple hundred images per page.
- I don't necessarily oppose upgrading jutsu once they appear a certain number of times and/or in certain circumstances. But I think they should remain listed in the subpages, even if they end up getting listed a few dozen times. As seen with Chibaku Tensei, just because a jutsu appears in multiple games does not mean it is the same each time. Likewise, I do not think listing only which game a jutsu debuts in is helpful. Listing each game a jutsu can be performed in should be done instead, a la how characters have a list of each game they appear in.
- To expand a little more on my earlier semantic response: putting a form in the redirects wouldn't work, I don't think. It would need to be something like what is done with the miscellaneous tools, where semantic information is manually listed below the soft redirect. Although: trying to retain semantic information via soft redirects would absolutely destroy special:random; nine out of every ten "articles" would be a link elsewhere. Something to be aware of.
- ~SnapperTo 20:24, January 22, 2014 (UTC)