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New Year's Fact Checking

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Note: This topic has been unedited for 1394 days. It is considered archived - the discussion is over. Do not add to unless it really needs a response.



With 2011 coming around in a few days, I decided to look over the manga and databooks again to see if I could find any new information. As you might have guessed by me creating this page, I did.

  1. The Sage of the Six Paths never used Izanagi. Rather, the Izanagi is a technique that applies an ability the Sage had: Creation of All Things (万物創造, Banbutsu Sōzō).
  2. The Land of Waves lies south of Konohagakure. The island we thought it was lies east of Konoha. The Land of Waves is also has many, many rivers running through it and is famous for its mangroves, which are filled with all kinds of lifeforms.
  3. Sōma no Kō isn't Sakon and Ukon's kekkei genkai itself, but a jutsu using this kekkei genkai, similar to Multiple Connecting Kicks and the like.

ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 21:18, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

  1. Is that ability a jutsu, or a principle, much like the ones you recently added to Sharingan's talk page? Is Izanagi still a Yin-Yang Release, or is that principle something present in Yin-Yang Release techniques?
  2. I don't understand that one. The only place I could see as a country south to the Land of Fire is the peninsula like thing west to the Land of Water, is that the Land of Waves?
  3. So the kekkei genkai itself remains nameless, and Sōma no Kō is a parent technique to Multiple Connecting Kicks and Multiple Connecting Puches, since those require them to be merged?

--Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:31, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

  1. It seemed to me like a natural ability allowing the Sage to use Yin-Yang Release to create things out of nothing and give them life. Izanagi turned this ability into a jutsu, at the cost of an eye.
  2. Nope, the Land of Waves was specifically said to be a small island nation. The peninsula is neither small, nor an island. Apparently it's simply not on the map. Either that, or south is left instead of down on the map.
  3. Seems that way, yeah.

ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 22:01, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

I might be able to find Sakon and Ukon's Kekkei Genkai in my third Anime Profiles, hopefully. It might just the Viz version or whatever, but it's better than nothing.--NinjaSheik 03:55, January 3, 2011 (UTC)
Be wary of translations of "Sōma no Kō". If the kekkei genkai isn't named in Japanese, there's almost no chance of it being named in English. ~SnapperTo 03:58, January 3, 2011 (UTC)

I know, but I'm willing to try and help any way I can. What does "Sōma no Kō" even mean?--NinjaSheik 04:00, January 3, 2011 (UTC)

Attack of an Evil Spirit Pair. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 04:01, January 3, 2011 (UTC)

Oh. Well, I've looked through Sakon and Ukon's sections in the third Anime Profiles. Doesn't say anything about their Kekkei Genkai, except for the fact that they "have the ability to control cells, which enables them to fuse with other cells." That's all. Man, how come they mentioned Kimmimaro's Kekkei Genkai, and not theirs?--NinjaSheik 04:04, January 3, 2011 (UTC)

I guess no one (except Kishimoto) will ever know. -- Fmakck - Talk - Contributions 04:35, January 3, 2011 (UTC)

No fair... *Pouting*--NinjaSheik 04:36, January 3, 2011 (UTC)

In fact, I believe he chose to leave it unnamed for the sole reason of making people like you pout :) -- Fmakck - Talk - Contributions 04:56, January 3, 2011 (UTC)

Well, creators of shows always like to keep fans guessing.--NinjaSheik 04:59, January 3, 2011 (UTC)

Talking of nameless kekkei genkai, Iron Sand is not the name of the Third Kazekage's kekkei genkai, but the name of his preferred weapon. His kekkei genkai — magnetic chakra — is still unnamed. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 08:07, January 3, 2011 (UTC)
For clarity's sake, would this be classified as a weapon(tool) or jutsu? -- Fmakck - Talk - Contributions 09:00, January 3, 2011 (UTC)
the Iron Sand itself is a weapon like any other. It isn't until it's being used in a specific way that it becomes a jutsu. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 09:11, January 3, 2011 (UTC)
TheUltimate3 is more confused then he should be. Imma read this.--TheUltimate3 ~Aspect of Wiki ~ 13:50, January 3, 2011 (UTC)
Ok I have read everything, and I think everything checks out. And because well.../shrug I guess we should bring up the Decapitating Carving Knife. Should that be renammed Kubikiri Hōchō? I've been avoiding the issue because, lets face it, I didn't feel like going into an edit war, but now that I have almost no care for it anymore what do we do with it? Change it to fit with the other Swordsmen weapons, or change them to fit with the Knife?--TheUltimate3 ~Aspect of Wiki ~ 13:54, January 3, 2011 (UTC)
I think they should all have the same format, either all of them should be called in their english name, or all in their Rōmaji name. I say change Decapitating Carving Knife to Kubikiri Hōchō. -- Fmakck - Talk - Contributions 17:41, January 3, 2011 (UTC)
Anyone... -- Fmakck - Talk - Contributions 07:18, January 4, 2011 (UTC)
That raises the question of why we should use the Japanese name, when all other tools are given English names. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 13:39, January 4, 2011 (UTC)
I dunno. I always figured the swords of the Swordsmen were proper names. Like in some very fake Japanese my proper name would be TheUltimate3maru(Ha ha ha ha ha ha) but that can be translated into very fake English my name is TheUltimate3burger(/laughssohardIpassout).--TheUltimate3 ~Aspect of Wiki ~ 14:49, January 4, 2011 (UTC)
One could easily argue that the name so of puppets are as much — if not more — proper names as those of the Seven Swords, yet these are translated as well. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 16:49, January 4, 2011 (UTC)
Bleh this is making my head hurt. Nobody is complaining lets just ignore it for a few months again like we've been doing before I opened my trap.--TheUltimate3 ~Aspect of Wiki ~ 17:01, January 4, 2011 (UTC)
Agreed. -- Fmakck - Talk - Contributions 18:06, January 4, 2011 (UTC)
Should this have been created at all? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:36, January 4, 2011 (UTC)
I don't agree with you TheUltimate3, we shouldn't stop the discussion just because it is "making your head hurt". 99.141.121.213 (talk) 21:09, January 8, 2011 (UTC)

Personally I prefer to use the original Japanese names whenever I can, including jutsu names and everything else, but thats just coz I'm an all-things-Japan otaku. I have no problem with having the names in english, as long as the original japanese name is also somewhere on the page. After all, this is an english site, meant for english readers. --Junaid-Sennin (talk) 15:41, February 22, 2011 (UTC)

These fact checkings seem...confusing

Shonensuki, I respect you greatly, but...some of these edits don't make sense. Izanagi was blatantly said to be used by the Sage of Six Paths by Madara, for instance. --NaruHina fan (talk) 08:47, January 4, 2011 (UTC)

No, that's the problem. Madara explains Izanagi as "a technique that applies the Sage of the Six Paths' 'Creation of All Things' " (六道仙人の〝万物創造〟を応用した術, Rikudō Sennin no 'Banbutsu Sōzō' o ōyō shita jutsu). He never said the Sage actually used Izanagi himself. Here's my translation of that conversation:
Konan: "How...? You should have died, I'm sure of it... I did so many simulations of it... With this process... I should have brought you down... and yet" (「どうして…確実に死んだはず…何度もシミュレーションして…この手順なら…アナタを倒せたはず…なのに」)
Madara: "Izanagi... The ability to exchange illusion and reality, in exchange for losing the light. An Uchiha kinjutsu." (「イザナギ…光を失う事と引き換えに幻と現実を繋げる事のできる うちはの禁術」)
"The Uchiha and Senju... [It's] a Dōjutsu that may only be wielded by someone who wields both their powers!" (「うちは千手…この両方の力を持つ者だけが許される瞳術!」)
Konan: "The powers of both... the Uchiha and Senju......? ...That's... The Rikudō's power... You [have] such power..." (「…うちはと千手…両方の力……?…それは…六道の力…アナタにはそんな力は…」)
Madara: "Heheh... You were once my comrade... I guess in respect for that relationship, I could teach you a bit about my technique and myself......" (「クク…かつては仲間…そのよしみとして少しオレの術とオレ自身について教えてやろう……」)
"...Izanagi is essentially as you said a technique applying the Rikudō Sennin's 'Creation of All Things'." (「…イザナギとは本来お前の言う六道仙人の〝万物創造〟を応用した術の事だ」)
"Originally, the Uchiha and Senju were one. Wielding the powers of those two blood[lines], the Rikudō Sennin — founder of those two [clans] — [was able] to create everything." (「もともとうちはと千手は一つ その二つの始祖である六道仙人はその二つの血と力を持ちあらゆるものを創った」)
"The power of Inton — based on the spiritual energy that governs imagination. Using this, he created form out of nothing. The power of Yōton — based on the physical energy that governs life. Using this, he breathed life into the form." (「想像を司る精神エネルギーを元とする陰遁の力…それを使って無からを造り 生命を司る身体エネルギーを元とする陽遁の力…それを使ってを吹き込む」)
"The Bijū are one of those as well...using the power of Onmyōton, he created each Bijū from the Jūbi's chakra." (「尾獣達もその一つ…十尾のチャクラから陰陽遁の力を使い各尾十を創造した」)
"A technique that incarnates imagination into life." (「想像を生命へと具現化する術」)
"That is Izanagi." (「それがイザナギ」)
Konan: "What on earth... What are you...?" (「アナタは…一体何者……なの…?」)
Madara: "as far as the world's concerned, Uchiha Madara was defeated by Senju Hashirama...... But what is the truth? The winner is the one who secures the future... Real victory or defeat comes from this...... That battle back then was so I could obtain that guy's power." (「うちはマダラは世間で千手柱間の負けたとされている……しかして真実はどうなのか?勝者とは先を見据えた者…本当の勝負はこれから……かつての戦いは奴の力を手に入れるためのもの」)
"I am Uchiha Madara who obtained Senju Hashirama's power! Now, I am the only being that can be considered the Second Rikudō" (「オレは千手柱間の力を手に入れたうちはマダラ!二人目の六道にして今は唯一の存在」)
Heheh.....There were a number of my fellows who displayed imperfect Izanagi because they couldn't control Hashirama's power, but... (「クク……柱間の力を制御できず不完全なイザナギを披露した輩は数いたが…」)
ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 13:37, January 4, 2011 (UTC)
I think that the reason people assumed the Sage could use Izanagi is because after Madara explains it all, there's that "That is Izanagi". Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 14:20, January 4, 2011 (UTC)
It's confusing, I'll admit. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 16:49, January 4, 2011 (UTC)
Well I completely understood that except that last line: "There were a number of my fellows who displayed imperfect Izanagi because they couldn't control Hashirama's power, but...". Just exactly how many people had Hashirama's powers. Orochimaru had them at some point (for his test subjects), Danzō had them, Yamato also, and apparently Kabuto has drug that neutralizes the powers. Why couldn't people just leave this guy alone. -- Fmakck - Talk - Contributions 18:03, January 4, 2011 (UTC)

More Things

ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 15:09, February 27, 2011 (UTC)

noted,changes will be made...--Cerez☺ (talk) 15:37, February 27, 2011 (UTC)
Anything else? ~ Fmakck©TalkContributions ~ 15:45, February 27, 2011 (UTC)
I'd be interested in reading your translations of the Yotsuki scene and whatever the Sunagakure councilors say in regards to the Third's disappearance and a shinobi war. ~SnapperTo 19:26, February 27, 2011 (UTC)
  • "The Yotsuki clan will never... betray their comrades." (「夜月一族は決して仲間を…裏切ったりはしない」, "Yotsuki ichizoku wa kesshite nakama o... uragittari wa shinai")
  • "At the time, there was much speculation going around about the Third's whereabouts. The countries became stormy and war broke out." (「その時はその三代目の所在を巡り、様々な憶測が流れ。戦争が起き国々が荒れた」, Sono toki wa sono Sandaime no shozai o meguri samazamana okusoku ga nagare senzō ga oki kuniguni ga areta")
The first quote simply does nothing to indicate that Killer B is a Yotsuki himself. The term used is far to vague to indicate something that specific and is actually used far more frequently to indicate people from the same village.
The second quote does not specify at all which specific war broke out and combined with Chiyo's comment about the Third Kazekage disappearing "more than ten years ago", while SWWIII broke out more than twenty years ago, also indicates it wasn't SWWIII the councilman was talking about. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 20:23, February 27, 2011 (UTC)

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