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I hate to ask for help, but I need it! So far, the Naruto Fanon Wikia is suffering from a lack of visitors. Plus, I am having trouble with templates, since I don't know how to make my own. Basically, I've been borrowing templates from different wikias, mainly this wikia's template list, to prepare for loads of visitors, but to no avail. I really need help! --Dubtiger 02:05, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- ...Do remember that most of the Stuff you copy from here requires a lot of the Wikia ACG CSS/JS. Copying from here might not work out to well. I'd help but I don't exactly approve of the project.
- My first issue is the name... You've added a whole new level of confusion to the use of the word Fanon. What was previously something misunderstood is now turning chaos. The definition of the word Fanon is something non-cannon which fans commonly consider to be cannon. But many Wikia wiki mislabel their wiki and call them Fanon, when what they are really creating is a Fanfic wiki, where people don't put fanon but instead fanfic. You've expanded this to a whole new level of confusion... Now with your wiki on Wikia not only does Fanon here stand for what Fanfic means (Real Fanon wiki themselves don't appear to even show up here) but now you are also defining Fanon to mean Fan RP's. So now because of your wiki Wikia defines Fanon to mean something non-canon but considered cannon by fans, fan-fiction, and also a fanatic rp game, ANARCHY. A proper name would either be Naruto Fanplay, or Naruto RP. But your Fanon wiki is so far from proper definition that it doesn't even fit within Wikia's bad and misguided definition of Fanon.
- Then there's the rules...
- You break the principle of Dissuade Interaction which Wikia follows right on your Main Page.
- You have an extremely worded rule for censoring on the wiki, when there have been thousands of discussions on this kind of thing which have determined that a wiki should be open, uncensored, and also that using F*** instead of Fuck is pointless on a wiki.
- Words in rules are capitalized to put emphasis on them breaking netettiquete and also encouraging people to break them in the same way as Dissuade Interaction tries to stop with spam/vandal fighting.
- The rules on rules go against the Openness and Be Bold ways in the Wiki way which Wikipedia and Wikia was founded on.
- You break Ownership with your rules treating it like your own wiki not like a proper Wikia wiki which is not owned by anyone and actually controlled by the community, not the admins. Admins are not gods on Wikia, they are merely users given powers to help other users. Why do you think Wikia named the Group which had more abilities than a Sysop on every single Wikia wiki Janitor instead of Global Sysop.
- The rules break 85% of Fanfics and Fan RP's where part of the point is to explore possibilities that could never or didn't happen in cannon and also ignore the fact that instead of being attempted to be merged together Fanfics/Fan RP's on a wiki should be separated so that individual people creating Fanfics or users doing Fan RP's don't have to conflict with each other and people can create Fanfics/Fan RP's which explore similar situations with completely different starting points which work from a different combination of things than the other one.
- Rename the wiki... And do about a 160° on the direction of the wiki and you might get enthusiastic contributors and me to help. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion Oct 9, 2007 @ 03:10 (UTC)
- Okay... So I'll have to explain why the wiki is as is then...
- 1. Most wiki fan pages are dubbed fanon, so it would be, at first, confusing, to start calling it something else. It's not my fault that the Wikia staff named it so. I cannot change the name, so it will remain Naruto Fanon for a while (at least).
- 2. I'm not a fan of profane language, I want to make the site more appropriate for the younger population. Lots of people are huge fans of Naruto, and since it is on Cartoon Network, where kids that may not even be teens can watch it, I want to make the site a safer environment for that age group. It does not matter if the person knows or not: it is an implied word - if the person is aware of the cuss words, he or she would already know. If not, ignorance is bliss to them.
- 3. This isn't really a point, but your Dissuade Interaction link does not link to the page, so I cannot comment on it. I don't know all the provisions of that rule.
- 4. The use of adminstrators having said power over the wiki is so that people would not create and use characters that unsuitable for role playing, such as a character than can kill everyone in a 10 mile radius. Both surreal and unfair to others. I listed myself because there are no one other than me that come on the page often, so there is no reason to promote a load of sysops when there are little for the sysops to look over.
- 5. The fanon is to create realistic fan-made information to expand Naruto-fan's imagination. Role playing is just a bonus for those who frequent the site.
- Also keep in mind that the rules and other restraints are not set in stone, and I am willing to alter them to better suit the visiting population. I openly accept critique over my rules so that I can improve them. Hopefully, you can find more flaws in my rules so I can revise them (hopefully with the help of people who actually frequently visit the site)
--Dubtiger 16:51, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Here's the link w:c:wikis:Dissuade Interaction. If you tell them not to spam, they'll be encouraged to spam. Wikia didn't name it that way, some random users made a mistake and people have been following it, it's not confusing to use correct terms, it gives better google hits and stops confusing the readers. The only way to stop this is for wiki to start using the proper term, but by continuing it you are contributing to the problem instead of the solution. And you already stopped people from god modding in another one of the rules, that has no relevance to admins having control of the wiki, the community should still hold control over it. I've seen other fanon wiki around, and none of them have a set of rules that put the sysops above the contributors, and they're doing about 1000x better than your wiki.
- Like I said, a rewrite and rename with help would make the wiki much better and I'd even help if that were the case. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion Oct 10, 2007 @ 16:36 (UTC)
Okay, I made some adjustments to the page. Can you specifically (and, preferably, harshly) critique the rules now? I really want to fix the mistakes that I made (unintentionally). --Dubtiger 18:58, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
- Let's see...
- Instead of "The rules on this page CANNOT conflict with the rules listed on this page. The rules listed here hold more power than on an individual page." what would be better is "Rules for individual rp's cannot conflict or override the wiki's rules."
- Instead of "Role play posts must be at least several sentences long!", perhaps "Role play posts should not be short and span multiple sentences rather than being an active conversation of short sentences between players (Wiki are not meant to be edited constantly with small things)."
- Rather than that huge and restricting set of rules and censorship... "Please be polite to other players and writers."
- Perhaps that rule on RP characters should make considerations for those doing rps such as a narutoXsakura rp where someone acting as their son would be alright... Perhaps "Please do not use global role playing characters with close relationship to the actual Naruto characters" or "Please do not use role playing characters with close relationship to the actual Naruto characters with the exception of characters meant for specific rp's which they fit within"
- Do remember that you may wish to move your rules to a Project:Rules page later or split them up, the Main Page is not a good rules page.
- About your character pages, the template that says "is property of User." does not work. Wiki rules can tell people to respect a creation ie: Not edit someone else's character... But can't go and imply ownership or property over an article or page. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion Oct 16, 2007 @ 03:16 (UTC) 03:16, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
As I said, though possibly not clearly... Since the rules are a bit messed up (still), the templates that were copied were a bit messed up, and the name isn't even correct... What I would be willing to do, is recreate it with you... I could have the staff create a Naruto Fan stuff wiki (The naruto fanon wiki would still be in that location so that we could use it to copy things from when we're working on the other wiki). I could co-found it with you and help you recreate the rules and start a structure. And rather than trying to copy templates or anything, we could go along with what's on w:c:Projects:Wikia ACG/Status and expand Wikia ACG to also include Fan stuff wiki. Which means that you wouldn't half to go and copy things, and we could even work on a set of complex Fan stuff templates that can be used on other Fan stuff wiki should more be added to the project. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion Oct 16, 2007 @ 03:16 (UTC)
- Thanks for the help. Help with the templates would be amazing, since I basically copy templates because I suck at making them. Thanks for all of the critique. --Dubtiger 13:23, 16 October 2007 (UTC)