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:::I agree with the above on this, in particular with Omnibender's remarks in regards to the addition of updated information, especially when these can range from simple amendments or, on the rare occasion, complete revisions. I don't know exactly why, but I get the feeling that the application of these quotes could become terribly inconsistent and thus difficult to implement correctly, at least in my opinion. [[User:Blackstar1|Blackstar1]] ([[User talk:Blackstar1|talk]]) 23:12, December 16, 2011 (UTC) |
:::I agree with the above on this, in particular with Omnibender's remarks in regards to the addition of updated information, especially when these can range from simple amendments or, on the rare occasion, complete revisions. I don't know exactly why, but I get the feeling that the application of these quotes could become terribly inconsistent and thus difficult to implement correctly, at least in my opinion. [[User:Blackstar1|Blackstar1]] ([[User talk:Blackstar1|talk]]) 23:12, December 16, 2011 (UTC) |
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+ | To be honest I don't see much difference in the writing style with the exception of bits like the introductory/one-off sentences. If they are used I don't really see how it'd differ much from the different writing styles that are conflated when several people write articles. On the other had, I will admit that sometimes there are instances where stuff the databook says can be reworded to sound a little better so I think that if we do use the quotations, we shouldn't be as stringent as to say it's an ''exact'' quote as sometimes moving stuff around is unavoidable. But as it stands we already use a lot of these direct translations without any problem all we'd be doing is pointing it out. And I'm pro-Kishimoto so I like the idea of integrating him more into the wikia.--[[User talk:Cerez365|Cerez<sub>365</sub>™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]] 23:17, December 16, 2011 (UTC) |
Revision as of 23:17, 16 December 2011
Forums: Index → Narutopedia Discussion → Databook Jutsu | Post |
If portions (or, sometimes, all) of a jutsu's article is going to be taken word-for-word from the jutsu's databook entry, I think it's important that the information be presented as such. Doing so would:
- Let readers know why a particular paragraph sounds different from the rest of the wiki.
- Let editors know that a particular paragraph should not be modified beyond adding links where appropriate.
- Solve what is potentially plagiarism in jutsu articles as they are now.
To use Kamui as an example:
Kamui without quote |
---|
Kakashi's original dōjutsu, released from the Mangekyō Sharingan, that allows one to transfer anything to another dimension. If one spends a lot of time and trains one's chakra over and over again, this technique can be invoked. The target is enveloped with a barrier space and the user concentrates their mind to what they gaze at. The target can struggle helplessly, but against this technique no defence is possible. When the technique is invoked, the space at the centre of the barrier is distorted and the target inside the barrier is drawn in completely. The location and size of the barrier can be specified at will. It is a dreadful technique that, with skilled use and enough chakra, can even pull an entire human being into another dimension. The Mangekyō Sharingan is a dōjutsu that, with continuous usage, burdens the user with the loss of their eyesight. Since this is the source of Kamui, using it in rapid succession puts Kakashi's body at risk as well. As his Sharingan was transplanted, usage of this technique poses an even greater risk to Kakashi. Kakashi is able to use this technique up to at least three times in a given day, even when starting at full strength. At first Kakashi's aim and control over the size of the barrier was imperfect. Over time his aim and control improved, as he was able to accurately warp away small and fast moving objects, such as a nail. Kakashi is even able to consecutively warp away two fast-moving arrows. |
Kamui with quote | ||||||
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Kakashi is able to use this technique up to at least three times in a given day, even when starting at full strength. At first Kakashi's aim and control over the size of the barrier was imperfect. Over time his aim and control improved, as he was able to accurately warp away small and fast moving objects, such as a nail. Kakashi is even able to consecutively warp away two fast-moving arrows. |
Much clearer with a quote, right?
The only potential issue with using {{quote}} is that I don't think it gets along well with the infobox, which means some other way of identifying quotes would need to be found. There's also a question of how to handle image captions, but that's small potatoes. This should be no more complicated than looking at the translations ShounenSuki has done, comparing them to the wiki's articles, and implementing the quote-treatment where the two match. Comments/concerns? 72.192.156.86 (talk) 22:01, December 13, 2011 (UTC)
- I believe that's why we have references but if people want to start doing that then sure. Joshbl56 22:06, December 13, 2011 (UTC)
So, as an IP, my suggestion is ignored and my edits are reverted. I'd like to say I'm surprised, but I'm really not. I'll also point out that I added several references, which active editors have made little progress with. ~SnapperTo 01:23, December 16, 2011 (UTC)
- No, your suggestion was not ignore, I answered. As for the edits, you should have made one edit and see what people thought, not go through and keep making them as if you were trying to troll. Joshbl56 01:28, December 16, 2011 (UTC)
- If only one person answer, then try asking people on their talk page to join, and if they don't then they do not want to change anything. Since no one tried making the changes then no one wanted to put them as quotes. Joshbl56 01:35, December 16, 2011 (UTC)
Though I'm not too sure what's up with you nowadays- you really are true to your moniker. However, I will say that you of all people should know that if you want something to be noticed on this wikia, you have to make it get noticed by others. With regards to whether or not we should use quotes, I really don't see an issue with it, but at the same time I don't really care if they're used. Most of the time people don't rewrite the articles but tend to drop in titbits that they deem are relevant and I fear that with quoting that won't be allowed any more. But either is fine with me I suppose. Possibly indicating otherwise that it's a direct quote might be fine as well? Hidden messages are getting popular lately.--Cerez365™ 01:42, December 16, 2011 (UTC)
I believe jutsu articles are fine as they are now. I think its unnecessary because we can simply use references to show where they come from.--Deva 27 01:44, December 16, 2011 (UTC)
I thought originally the anon intended to replace the article text with the exact quote, which i would be against since then no one could update it to reflect new information. But adding the databook translation to the top in quotes, seperate from the rest of the article only adds positively to it. — SimAnt 01:46, December 16, 2011 (UTC)
- (editconflictx100!) I would also like to say that I just saw some of the articles that were changed to the quote format and, they look really kewl >.> I might be more on the side of using it now. Though I'm not too sure how it'd look it wikia skin as opposed to Monaco. I'm assuming the latter would look better because of the page width. Also, what if there are images in the article itself- what would be done about that?--Cerez365™ 01:48, December 16, 2011 (UTC)
- I will admit that not quoting directly makes the information a bit more accessible, but these are very meaty excerpts to use and only acknowledge through some floating reference at the end of the article.
- As an IP, I'm forced to use the Wikia skin, and it doesn't look so bad. It's scrunchy, sure, but so is everything in Wikia.
- I'm not suggesting that databook quotes be used whenever available. Just that, if the databook is going to be quoted, it might as well be put in quotes. Articles that are long enough to have multiple images don't usually make such extensive use of databook material so they shouldn't be a problem. ~SnapperTo 01:57, December 16, 2011 (UTC)
- Just to give an idea of how common (or uncommon) use of databook information is, I made a list of all the articles that were noticeably similar to ShounenSuki's translations. To summarize: the first databook has 86 jutsu entries, of which 15 are used by the wiki; the second databook has 108 jutsu entries, of which 17 are used by the wiki; the third databook has 115 jutsu entries, of which 96 are used by the wiki.
- Some of these I could be wrong about, and the databook just happens to say more-or-less the same thing as what observation produces. Some of these actually use a reference, so a quote is not required beyond a desire to be consistent (assuming the quote-treatment is desirable). Some of these make very negligible use of databook information when compared to user-submitted content, so a quote would probably not be a good idea.
- At the very least, the list may give an idea of what articles don't use databook information and thus which may have room for improvement. I only looked at articles for jutsu that ShounenSuki has translated so I suppose it's possible that articles of unlisted jutsu are based on the work of other translators, but I personally doubt it. ~SnapperTo 03:29, December 16, 2011 (UTC)
- And TheUltimate3 is posting in a thread he has not read. Will get back to you around next Monday (Final Exams yay!)--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 04:05, December 16, 2011 (UTC)
If we are going to use this, I think we should just use the meat of the description (at least for the top quote) from the databooks. For Kamui we could just use:
“ | Kakashi's original dōjutsu, released from the Mangekyō Sharingan, that allows one to transfer anything to another dimension. If one spends a lot of time and trains one's chakra over and over again, this technique can be invoked. The target is enveloped with a barrier space and the user concentrates their mind to what they gaze at. The target can struggle helplessly, but against this technique no defence is possible. When the technique is invoked, the space at the centre of the barrier is distorted and the target inside the barrier is drawn in completely. The location and size of the barrier can be specified at will. It is a dreadful technique that, with skilled use and enough chakra, can even pull an entire human being into another dimension. | ” |
—Third Databook |
Or something like that since it still gives us room to put info but still tells how the technique works. Also, would we do something with the character's that are in the databooks? (Just in case you guys and gals already came up with a decision, I have to tell you I just sort of skimmed over most of the conversation '^.^. Also, sorry for being rude earlier, Snapper2) Joshbl56 10:17, December 16, 2011 (UTC)
- I really think this could work, with any additional info going at the bottom of the article but we do need to hear more from the other members.--Cerez365™ 11:54, December 16, 2011 (UTC)
Well, I don't know if it just that I'm accustomed to the clasic way of presenting things, but I am completely against copy-paste of databook entries. Most of them use a language that, while it may be cool and stuff for databooks, it is not so much for an impartial, data gathering wikia. I've always been against using databook text literally for technique entries. I know that, as a minor editor my opinion isn't quite on par with the fat cats here, but I just wanted to explain myself.--Kind-Hearted-One (talk) 16:11, December 16, 2011 (UTC)
- I admit not to have read everything in this page, but I mirror a bit of Kind-Hearted-One's opinion in that the language used in the databooks doesn't feel suited the wiki, in my opinion. And doing that would make it a strange having to add updated information regarding something that is in the quote in a different paragraph or something like that. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:41, December 16, 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with the above on this, in particular with Omnibender's remarks in regards to the addition of updated information, especially when these can range from simple amendments or, on the rare occasion, complete revisions. I don't know exactly why, but I get the feeling that the application of these quotes could become terribly inconsistent and thus difficult to implement correctly, at least in my opinion. Blackstar1 (talk) 23:12, December 16, 2011 (UTC)
To be honest I don't see much difference in the writing style with the exception of bits like the introductory/one-off sentences. If they are used I don't really see how it'd differ much from the different writing styles that are conflated when several people write articles. On the other had, I will admit that sometimes there are instances where stuff the databook says can be reworded to sound a little better so I think that if we do use the quotations, we shouldn't be as stringent as to say it's an exact quote as sometimes moving stuff around is unavoidable. But as it stands we already use a lot of these direct translations without any problem all we'd be doing is pointing it out. And I'm pro-Kishimoto so I like the idea of integrating him more into the wikia.--Cerez365™ 23:17, December 16, 2011 (UTC)