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So, even though this disappoints some of us (there's a first time for everything), we need to decide how we're going to proceed with the whole Obito being behind that mask. Thankfully the articles have been locked, but the talk pages will be flooded soon and I'm thoroughly confused as how to proceed with things.--Cerez365™(talk) 12:19, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
I say, Just combine both Tobi and Obito pages... Done deal.. no big deal.
- The same we did with Madara and Tobi. The only difference here is, instead of splitting, we have to merge now :\ (I know how it feels, I was betting for Madara's Living Clone with a consciousness :\) akz! 12:26, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
akz! is right... We have to merge them :\
- I think that we should wait until the next chapter. They will be probably explain everything about his story and we will easy merge both article knowing his background. Until that moment both articles should be locked and noone should edit them.GothicWarrior (Dyskusja) 12:29, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Given what is revealed, we have little option other than to merge the two character articles, so I don't believe there is any need to discuss that further. However, thankfully Tobi is still a unique name that is only identifiable to the masked Obito, so there shouldn't be any need to change all instances of Tobi to Obito at least for those before the reveal (although I guess some editors will attempt to do so, given what happened with the tailed beasts). The only exceptions to this, as far as I see, are Obito's own article and respective ability pages. Blackstar1 (talk) 12:34, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- At least we can have a header which says - "WE AWARE OF TOBI BEING OBITO UCHIHA, AND DISCUSSION IS GOING ON WHETHER THE ARTICLES MUST BE MERGED NOW OR WE SHOULD WAIT TILL THE NEXT CHAPTER IS OUT, SO DON'T FLOOD THE TALKPAGES AND USE THE EXISTING ONES, THANK YOU." akz! 12:39, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Thinking about the whole merger thing, I feel compelled to say wait because this regrettably wasn't one of those chapters where we were told a lot, 3 words total actually. I was also wondering if someone would merge the articles on a sandbox page for example so we can see how it will look in a similar manner to what Ulti and Snapper did when they separated Tobi and Madara.--Cerez365™(talk) 12:41, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
I believe we should probably use Beta pages for anything we're doing before touching the actual articles. That is of course if the majority of the community decides to merge without waiting.--Cerez365™(talk) 12:48, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
I also think waiting for some explanations would be the appropriate procedure. Maybe it is not HIM totally but a controlled Zetsu body made with him or some other theories we all might already know.. Khaliszt (talk) 12:57, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
My bet: Obito's corpse "revived" with Zetsu merged and controlled by the "real/true" Tobi from the shadows with his Outer Path/chakra rods, thus this one being a puppet. There are just too many options, we should wait because it's not yet 100% confirmed, even though the guy battling Naruto and staff sure is "Obito" --Elveonora (talk) 13:05, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
So we agreed on it (I hope), waiting for future explanations is the best choice, could be Obito, again from the Tobi talk-page, my guess is it's Zetsu's Parasitic clone. I'm not going to make a forum-like speech here so that's all from me.
Yeah and this all makes me ask myself: So, if Tobi had such a great eyes collection (so he has been close to many, maaaany dead uchiha corpses) why would he chose OBITO'S one? It all sounds so weird.. and being so young why would he know Madara or how did he give a Rinnegan to Nagato (who was a kid at the times of young Jiraiya). It's all so weird.. Khaliszt (talk) 13:11, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- While I agree that this process certainly shouldn't be rushed and that the use of a sandbox page is necessary, if only to highlight any potential issues, I don't believe it should be postponed much beyond a week if the situation remains the same in upcoming chapters. As long as Tobi and Obito are stated to be one and the same, the reason for them being so is largely irrelevant to whether the articles should or shouldn't be merged. The only reveal that would effect that issue, is if this Obito was something else other than the original (e.g. clone or otherwise), but such theories are currently just unfounded speculation and I don't think we should agree to an indefinite halt on just these alone.
- Hopefully the information in the next chapter should be much more telling, so waiting a week shouldn't do any harm, just so long as we don't postpone this longer than necessary simply because many find Obito being Tobi a bitter and hard pill to swallow. Blackstar1 (talk) 13:26, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
There was absolutely no chance, Tobi is Obito. There are too many reasons, why it doesn't make any sense. Whatever, I really want to know, what's happening next.
- I say we should just merge the articles since it's pretty much confirmed. Stalling is only going to cause acrimony for us and a whole load of issues. =.= --Speysider Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | My Wiki | Channel 13:53, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
I think we should merge the pages together it's been revealed that Tobi is Obito so it should be merged as soon as possible
- Well, I'm not a Naruto fan anymore.. :\ It sucks.. The next chapter might be my last Naruto chapter... Hope it's just the body.... We should wait till next chapter..."Still HOPING" akz! 14:07, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Why the fuck do people take it as confirmed? Yes, yes... the body there sure looks like Obito's, I say wait, details about to be revealed in chapter 600... till then, let Obito sleep under the boulders--Elveonora (talk) 14:11, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
This may be somewhat off topic, but there is a minor plot hole presented in the chapter, how was Kakashi taking part in the Chūnin exams with Obito and Rin? According to this wiki he was a Chūnin before they even graduated from the academy. Terrios (talk)
- It's a plot twist — yeah. I do agree on merging but waiting on the next chapter is better. ~IndxcvNovelist (talk | contribs | PR | RLS) 14:19, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- I hope there's more to it, or else this just proves to me that Kishimoto's writing ability is pure ass. That being said I would make a sandbox to merge the two articles, however my internet is less than steller atm and I am forced to use the school libary to even read and post.
- Also, language Elveonora. Not sure when you decided to drop your language filter, but I would suggest you pick it back up.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 14:24, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
That interview is false man, why would a worker of Viz Media (And actually VIZ MEDIA XD japanese mangakas only do interviews to their publishing companies, i.e. Shueisha) filter something and reveal his name so happily? And more important, why would Kishimoto reveal everything is going to happen next to some random guys (even if they weren't random)? That is totally false. On other hand, I hope, ultimate3, that this doesn't end like that, all this needs much more explanations, for god's sake! Otherwise Kishi would have dropped his mangaka level to the subways.. Khaliszt (talk) 14:29, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
I say we wait until next week. Kakashi actually asked if Tobi is Obito and until he gets a clear answer on this, we're just going to wait and do nothing at all. I mean, it's just a week, that's not much compared to the years we had to wait for Tobi to lift is mask. We and the readers can wait another week. Seelentau 愛議 14:36, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Mayhaps we should've had a general sandbox for the wikia from a long time ago but I was hoping you, Snaps (no Snaps) or BlackStar would be able to do the major parts and you could leave the smaller stuff to the rest of the editors. I'm not sure why, but I think you guys would be able to do it properly. I also want to wait, 600 is a nice round number lol. In the meantime, we'll have a sandbox people can fool around in.--Cerez365™(talk) 14:39, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Obito's dead. His body is just being controlled by the evil spirit known as Tobi. :/ --The Goblin 14:43, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Ignoriong Aged Goblin, I'm more worried about what to do about the millions of articles that reference Tobi. The Horde will decend on us in a matter of minutes to change every instance of his name to Obito. If we are going to wait, what are we going to do about this?--TheUltimate3 (talk) 14:44, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- I don't think we should wait. Waiting because a few people refuse to believe it is really going to cause a major issue. We should just start changing everything from Tobi to Obito and be done with it.
- @Aged Goblin: That's not going to help. --Speysider Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | My Wiki | Channel 14:47, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
My language filter is on, no worries... I'm 100% calm. We either:
- stop reading the manga further and move on with our lives
- change Tobi to Obito
- lock the pages
We can just start creating a merged article at Obito Uchiha/Merge or something similar. 14:51, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
edit conflict The pages are locked so we're good on that front. Whatever issue it causes is not our concern, we have to choose a plan of action and work with it. As for the Tobi uses, Ulti, I'm all for Tobi redirecting to Obito and we let it at that. With the exception of some articles such as jutsu pages etc. I've never had a problem with calling people monikers. That article is fine Supreme.--Cerez365™(talk) 14:53, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- EDIT CONFLICT: @Salil: Good idea, so when will they start it? ~IndxcvNovelist (talk | contribs | PR | RLS) 14:56, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
I honestly think both sections should be locked till the next chapter comes out and more info is revealed. Otherwise you're gonna have an Edit War as I like to call it on our hands. Just because they think it's Obito, doesn't mean it is him, for all we know it could probably be an illusion/clone are something else entirely. Not saying it is but in the Naruto World crazier things have happened. I say wait till more info. --Michma12 (talk) 15:02, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- @Seelentau: The manga confirms it's Obito, why are people like you so insistent not to do anything when it's blatantly obvious Tobi = Obito ?
- @Michma: The pages were already locked but see my message to Seelentau. Tobi = Obito, we don't need a big discussion saying he isn't as Kishi has quite clearly made his intentions known. --Speysider Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | My Wiki | Channel 15:05, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
The manga confirms what Tobi looks like under his mask. Kakashi even asks if he's Obito, why can't we wait for a "yes" or "no" by Tobi? I'm not against moving everything, but imagine next week Tobi says no and you'd have to move everything again. Seelentau 愛議 15:13, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- It's still work that can easily be avoided by having patience for another week. We waited a long time now, what's wrong with waiting just another week? Wasn't it the same with Madara/Tobi? Seelentau 愛議 15:19, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Been reading these discussions from my phone. Decided I wanted to weigh in. Now, guys (particularly those wanting to wait yet another week), the chapter was called "Uchiha Obito". It covered Obito's flashbacks followed by a panel of Obito's face under the mask. Kakashi was not asking Tobi if he was Obito, he was in shock. "You're Obito?!" is more of a shocked reaction rather than a question. If Kishi named a chapter Obito, called Tobi Obito, and even showed Tobi's face to be Obito, then I hate to tell ya, but next week he's not gonna come in and say "lol nope he was someone else". Its just not gonna happen. Plus, after big revelations like this, Kishi likes to switch the scene for a month, so we may not get any answers next week. For all we know, next week the scene will switch back to Sasuke and Orochimaru and we won't see Obito, Naruto, Kakashi, Guy, and Bee's battle for another month. The facts are there. No one had a problem splitting the articles the second Tobi was revealed to have not been Madara. I see a double standard here. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 15:26, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
The story had gone downhill since Nagato has revived those he had killed... the weirdo Ten-Tails subplot and now this was a nail in the coffin. I honestly doubt him being Obito for a reason: this one will take more than 10 chapters to fucking explain, so either Kishi is a troll or "bye bye" by the most of Naruto fandom and the rest that stays, enjoy your flashbacks--Elveonora (talk) 15:26, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- I think you vastly underestimate who will actually leave. Besides, that's not what we're here to discuss. It has been confirmed in the manga that Tobi is Obito. This wiki is one of facts, not "Well, a lot of fans don't want Obito so it can't be Obito." Last I checked, Kishimoto was still writing this manga. He said in his interview Tobi's identity would be revealed within weeks. A month later, here we are. Obito Uchiha. Its not gonna turn out to be anyone else. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 15:29, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- EDIT: It never says whose flashbacks it is, but Kakashi wasn't there for a few of the memories, so one can assume they are Obito's. Secondly, the Narorator's comments say "It's revealed! His name is Obito!" but Kakashi says "You're... Obito?!" on the last page. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 15:31, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Okay, couple issues with this chapter. Number one during the flash back obito is shown standing in front of Hokage Rock (the rock with all the faces of the hokage). Minato is shown as the being 4th Hokage, yet Minato did not become the 4th Hokage until after the 3rd Shinobi War ended, or in other words after obito's supposed death. #2 Not really so much an issue with this chapter, but another somewhat related plot hole. In Naruto Shippuden episodes 127-128:Tales of a Gutsy Ninja: Jiraiya Ninja Scroll Part 1 and Part 2, it states that Jiraiya met nagato, yahiko, and konan during the THIRD SHINOBI WAR, the narrator even states at the end of part two immediately after leaving nagato, yahiko, and konan- "When Jiraiya returned to the village, the Third Great Ninja War continued." Also, later on in the episode it says the war ended when Minato destroyed the bridge of Kannabi. My point is that according to this website and another of other sources Jiraiya trained nagato during the second shinobi war. According to these episodes though, that simply is not the case. It was definitely during the Third Great Shinobi War. Which mean the 3rd great shinobi war is the same war hanzo fought in, as well as the same war Tsunade, Orochimaru, and Jiraiya became known as the legendary Sannin. Now the war had to go on for many years after jiraiya trained nagato. Jiraiya trained nagato for about 3 years. All the while the 3rd great shinobi war raged on. It was also sometime after this that Tsdunades lover was killed in battle. My point is all of the grief that led to the various bad guys downfall occurred during the 3rd great shinobi War, not the second. When nagato killed yahiko the war was still going on too. And the war ended very shortly after obito's supposed death. Which would have been well after the Akatsuki was formed, therefore obito did not give yahiko the idea to start the akatsuki. he also did not give nagato the rinnegan. he lied about this. but perhaps it was the real madara uchiha that did. maybe with the same technique itachi used to give sasuke the mangeyko. Somehow Madara Uchiha is the one who is responsible for twisting both nagato and obito. And it happened during the the 3rd great shinobi war. Madara also somehow died, I believe his death has something to do with the 3 tails and yagura. THe 3 tails was removed from yagura for some reason. and somehow ended up killing madara. I believe madara met obito first and then nagato. madara likely created zetsu from the 1st hokages cells with his rinnegan, the same way the sage of the sixths paths created the tailed beasts. madara also healed found and healed obito. as well as trained him. the story about why obito is evil, and also how he became so powerful relatively quickly, considering that the attack on konoha was soon after the end of the 3rd great shinobi war is unclear. It was also madara who met kisame for the first time when he was with yagura. I believe kisame was also well aware that tobi was not madara —This unsigned comment was made by 220.127.116.11 (talk • contribs) .
Actually Tobi already had Obito's eye when he attacked Konoha in the past.. Everything is so weird and the timeline incoherences make this impossible unless there is an explanation on WHY. Maybe it is where that "izuna" theory comes up. Who knows, i think we have to wait.. but the articles should be changed anyway Khaliszt (talk) 15:40, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Ignoring the block of text about an anime mistake, the whole timeline is really screwed up now. This is nothing a simple page moving can solve, that's why we should wait. Also, the narrator's words are worthless, they're even left out in the tankobon Seelentau 愛議 15:42, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Guys, but what is the problem to wait a week to be sure and write more info surely correct, rather than write now and edit after... I really don't understand why all these problems and hate... more I'm sure that the admins are more professional and serious than to be considered people that lock the pages just because they don't like what happens in the manga...
Before this chapter I thought that Tobi was Izuna, but also in that case, personally if the wikia was just for my use, I will wait at least next week to edit. It's exactly the same reasoning that it's done when a character die, at the moment we are not able to know if it's effectively dead or eventually is just a fatal wound, so for a week in his profile it's written incapacited... --18.104.22.168 (talk) 15:45, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
where is it ever mentioned that nagato met jiraiya during the second shinobi war anyways? perhaps that is just an error on this website. it seems like a lot of fans use this site for clarification. but that has to be wrong. it is not a mistake in the anime. jiraiya, tsunade, and orochimaru never fought in the second shinobi war. in fact i believe the only time that the second shinobi war is even mentioned is during danzo's flashback when he was teamed up with Kagami Uchiha, Torifu Akimichi, Hiruzen, Koharu Utatane, Homura Mitokado under the leadership of the second hokage. I'm positive that was the second shinobi war. well before jiraiya was even born. —This unsigned comment was made by 22.214.171.124 (talk • contribs) .
- It's not an error, it's been mentioned a lot of times in the series. Also, please sign your posts. --Speysider Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | My Wiki | Channel 15:54, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
A last thing, the manga of Naruto is not perfect but indipendentely by the disrespect which often Kishimoto is a victim in the forums, actually he is very much talented and skilled in comparison the message which usually transpares..Someone thinks really that for the mistery of Obito, one of the main plot device of the story together with the Kyuubi's attack and the death of the clan Uchiha (both linked to him) Kishimoto has not thought of a valide explanation, considering everything he has written until now? Kishimoto is the same person that continued to talk about the past of Itachi Uchiha also 200 chapters after his death, to make his act believable... Contrarily to other that talk already about plot holes, I hope to not be the one that on the contrary is excited for this twist apparently impossible, and just for this reason is curious to see the explanation of the author.--126.96.36.199 (talk) 15:54, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
I admit that I'm angry (ok) and biased... not to mention all "facepalm" cause the story sucks now even more.
- Kakashi to Sasuke: "I don't want to kill you"
- Sasuke to Kakashi: "I want to kill you so badly I can taste it, Kakashi"
- Kakashi's thoughts: "Madara (Obito, lolz) has corrupted him so much"
- Kakashi to Sasuke: "No matter how far he fell, The Third always looked upon Orochimaru with affection"
- Sasuke to Kakashi: "You and The Third will have plenty to talk about when you join him!"
- Kakashi to Tobi: "Obito, is that you???!!!???!!!???!!!???"
- Obitard: "lulz, you blind from Kamui already?"
- Kakashi: "Why... WHY!!!??? you used to be a nice guy"
- Obitard: "I dunno, lol. Kishi been smoking too much crack, he has lost it..."
- Kakashi: "Oh, ok... tell me more, sounds like a cool story"
- Obitard: "lulz, ya know. Zetsu saved me from under da' boulers and repaired me. Got possessed by a part of Maradar's soul, I grew into a mature man in a year, had gotten overpowered and killed our sensei for LULZ"
- Kakashi: "you have also corrupted Sasuke"
- Obitard: "right, he ain't your student anymore"
- Kakashi: "What now?"
- Obitard: "You see, it's a part of my plan, to become complete and one with everyone. So now I just take over ur body to get both my eyes, then take over Sasuke's, so it's all one big hell of a love triangle"
What about readers who didn't catch up to the current chapters already? Or noobs who will start reading Naruto from the beginning? They will probably just check out some information about Obito and BAMM, everything is spoiled. Keep both articles seperated and hide spoiler information redundantly in both. Buzz-steve (talk) 16:03, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- That's not a reason to keep them separate. If new information is revealed, it is added. There are clear warnings all around this wiki that it is full of spoilers, so anyone coming here is just asking to get the story spoiled. --Speysider Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | My Wiki | Channel 16:06, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
I'm sorry but, are you guys being serious here? I'll take what I already said in the talk page of Tobi and say it again. When Madara was revived, we didn't "wait a week" to see if it was just his body, did we? We didn't "wait a week" to see if Tobi was the living consciousness of Madara. Case and point? When Madara popped up on the last panel, we split the articles as soon as we could. I could care less what people think of the Obito theory. We're an unbiased wikia site and wikipedia has already gone ahead and listed Tobi as Obito. Whatever you may think of the theory means nothing. What we know is the chapter is called Obito Uchiha, and the man behind the mask was, in some way shape or form, Obito. It's not like I'm 100% happy about it either, but that's Kishimoto's decision, and if we're going to keep our reputation as unbiased and legitimate, then we need to not be biased! Merge the articles. If he turns out to only be Obito's body [which is ridiculous, since you'd basically be saying. HE'S OBITO! owait, he isn't. Kishi doesn't write that way.] then split the articles again. It won't be easy, but it's what we have to do. I can't even begin to describe how ridiculous this denial is, especially on the saiyan island forums. --M4ND0N (talk) 16:08, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
It's really hard to have the patience to wait another week before to merge pages or jump to the conclusions and say what suck and what is good? Everyone has own opinions, but at least to give the time to the author to tell us his story? It's in moments like these that I remember like the manga are not done to be read one chapter at the time...--JK88 (talk) 16:09, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
We didn't give the author time to explain how Tobi isn't Madara and that the real Madara was a totally different person. He could've very well been Madara's body alone. Going by that logic, we shouldn't have split the two articles on the day Madara appeared, right? But we did. I don't see why this is even a debate. Just because people are disappointed by the turnout, they think they have to prolong the merging to cling to some last bit of hope that somehow Tobi isn't Obito. But we're an unbiased wiki.. so... --M4ND0N (talk) 16:17, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- And the last page of today's chapter is not confirmation enough ? Tobi is Obito, stop trying to deny that fact because everyone knows it is true, whether you want to believe it or not. --Speysider Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | My Wiki | Channel 16:21, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Kishimoto specifically said that Tobi's identity would be revealed in a matter of weeks. It's been a month, the chapter was called "Uchiha Obito". How much more confirmation do you need? we didn't wait a week for more "confirmation" on Tobi and Madara being different people, did we? Sorry for bringing it up so much. But so many people are ignoring the facts and regulations of this wiki because they didn't like how the chapter turned out. --M4ND0N (talk) 16:22, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Usually this is done when a character seems to be dead... at the moment is written incapacitated and just with the next chapter is given the confirmation on his status... I don't say this because I am biased that Tobi is Obito (actually I thought that Tobi was Izuna, anyway I'm excited for the twist and really curios to know what is the explanation for what apprently seems impossible), but overall because I think to the work of the moderators. Everyone here was saying to merge the pages, but they know that he will not be the people that will do this (me included): is already a big work merge the pages, think if next week some other info could change what is the impression of the identity of Tobi from this chapter. Off course a link between Tobi and Obito exist and it's not just a stolen eye, but exactly what is the problem to wait another week? If Tobi is Obito (like I think, also if surely the truth will not be so simple) you can be sure that it will be written black on white on these pages.--JK88 (talk) 16:28, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Because we're a wikia with a reputation for being up to date. Why the hell would we hold back content because a few people are biased and don't like the way the story is turning out? We've never withheld content before. The only reason this is an issue is people are coming up with excuses to keep the articles as they are because they don't want him to be Obito. But he is who he is, and we risk losing our integrity if we ignore this twist. --M4ND0N (talk) 16:31, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
@Spey, wait till Kishi explains. @Mandon, yeah just like chapter 540 is enough of a proof that Tobi is indeed Madara. I still do believe the true reveal is gonna happen in the 600th chapter. It was called "Obito Uchiha" case 95% of the chapter was a flashback about him and there's this dude unmasked that looks like him. --Elveonora (talk) 16:32, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Eventhough I actually agree with both of you, I think, as i've said before and Mandon said: This wiki is supposed to be unbiased and right now it is not being so.. if it was CONFIRMED in the chapter, why do we still doubt it? Well, simple: because CLEARLY we need explanations on this. And here comes where I totally agree with spey and elveonora: If we just did all the edit stuff blah blah and next week or in chapter 601 it results to be more complex than that (which is highly probable because otherwise kishimoto would have made some really awful plotholes and mistakes, so there MUST be an explanation) we would have to UNDO an enormous edit which would have done previously non-sensly.. So this is a real dilemma, to do it, or not to do it? that is the question.Khaliszt (talk) 16:38, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- I never said that o_O
- I said that if we don't merge the articles, the wiki will be overwhelmed with people asking why it hasn't been done.
- The wiki chronicles EVERY LITTLE DETAIL that is in the chapters. What is the big difference here ? Oh wait, people don't want to believe Tobi is Obito when the title and the final page clearly indicate that he is. =.= --Speysider Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | My Wiki | Channel 16:40, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Well.. then that is what I'm saying too but just think of the complexity of an edit that you can avoid considering that maybe next week it will be non-sense.. But anyway i DO agree: Tobi is OBITO, it was said DURING the chapter and in the title. Why are there still doubts on that? Khaliszt (talk) 16:45, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
EDIT CONFLICT COMBO: Well, I remember splitting of Madara and Tobi's article was done after one week's release of the chapter..So, same will be done here...And, the creator of Naruto - I don't wanna utter his name - better has an explanation in the next chapter.. :\ akz! 16:42, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Elveonora, no offense but you already admitted you're biased on the subject, so you're not really the person to decide what we do from here on out. We need to go by what we know, and what we seem to know is that he's Obito. You don't believe he's Obito, so you want us to disregard the latest chapter just to give your theory some time. But this is what was revealed, and it would be irresponsible to not merge the articles. Not to mention, Kishimoto said it would be revealed in a matter of weeks. It's been a month, so that's all the confirmation we need. Khal, here's the thing. The most that could be revealed next week is more backstory to add, if he turns out to be Obito. I find it highly unlikely that Kishimoto will just reveal that he's not actually Obito after all this build up. It's not good storytelling, and it's not the way he writes. It's already passed the few week deadline that Kishi said would reveal Tobi's identity, so we have to treat this as legitimate. We have way more evidence that suggests he is Obito than not. And no, Aditya, it wasn't after a week. It took awhile, due to all the work, so it took a couple days to straighten out all the info, and it was messy for a good while, but we still did it. --M4ND0N (talk) 16:44, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
What if he is revealed to be just a Zetsu's advanced clone with a consciousness, or Kakashi, Guy, B and Naruto are all under mini Infinite Tsukuyomi...YOLO :D We should at least wait for a week, then jump to conclusions...Still HOPING.. akz! 16:48, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Okay, I need to ask, because this is baffling me. Are you people even reading what I'm saying? Or are you just skimming through it and typing out points I've already addressed? When Madara was revealed to be an edo, we didn't go by theory. Madara could have easily been his body and his soul [Tobi] is in a fake body. That wasn't the case, and even if it was, we treated it professionally and split the articles. --M4ND0N (talk) 16:50, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
We split it only after the next chapter was released, so far as I remember. akz! 16:53, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Since it seams to be a bit hard to say when Obito put on the mask and Madara's comments about Nagato, I think it wouldn't hurt to wait for next chapter. Hopefully it will clear up some facts. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 16:54, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
So now the reasoning of the counter-argument is to wait an entire week to fill the void left by lack of information? Who's to say next week will explain any of these questions? We should just merge the articles, and say ambiguous stuff like, "Obito claims to have given Nagato the Rinnegan, but due to his younger age and lies under the guise of Tobi, it's unknown if he was telling the truth." Or for the gap between time, "Obito was believed to be dead, but resurfaced under the aliases of Tobi and a vengeful Madara Uchiha. During this time, Obito wore various masks to hide his identity for unknown reasons." It's not perfect, but it's all we can do in light of the circumstances. --M4ND0N (talk) 17:02, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
The theoretically correct procedure would be updating the data and merging the articles because it is what has been revealed up until now. But well. you're right guys, I don't think anyone will die for waiting ONE week that could mean avoiding a lot of work or anyway doing it as it could be done right now. A week of waiting to get some deeper explanation won't be that much! Khaliszt (talk) 17:54, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Because that's withholding content that's otherwise confirmed. Kishi said he'd reveal Tobi's identity this month, and he did. There's no reason to wait a week, and it would be unprofessional to do so. --M4ND0N (talk) 17:25, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- I don't really know. However, people have a point that next week, the scene may jump to some other random individual and no information about Tobi becomes known. It should just be a case of merging the articles and adding one of the templates indicating that not all of the information on the article can be vouched for. --Speysider Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | My Wiki | Channel 17:31, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Exactly. We don't know if next week will explain anything, we don't know if he ISN'T Obito, but it seems 99% likely that he is, based on Kishi's interview about Tobi's revelation. But from what we do know, we need to merge them. It's the only course of action. --M4ND0N (talk) 17:33, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
This is important and we can't jump to early conclusions. I think waiting is better but we need to keep up with the manga. It's possible that he is Obito - I mean he can't be other guys. ~IndxcvNovelist (talk | contribs | PR | RLS) 17:54, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Well, actually it is not such a thing as an "early conclusion", it was CONFIRMED in the chapter. Even the name says it. So i think you mean more like "jump into early explanations on why this is like it is already confirmed it is". Khaliszt (talk) 17:57, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Some people find it hard to believe Obito is Tobi. One year after the war ended, an early teen Obito has reached the height of his former teacher. His newly awakened Sharingan is fully matured and gained Madara's power to contol Kyuubi. Alhough he was considered underdog, he is now a capable criminal. What would you describe that? Hidden genius or plot inconsistency? --The Goblin 17:55, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Obito may be skilled. Plus Obito died at age 13. Guys grew up faster at puberty haha. I have my guesses it is Madara who fought Minato and the one who massacred Uchiha clan. ~IndxcvNovelist (talk | contribs | PR | RLS) 18:00, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
And that's ur speculation, the one fighting Minato clearly had the same personality as "Obito" here now. I say it's highly probable this guy is just a corpse, half his head is repaired by a zetsu stuff, meaning that his brain got crushed.--Elveonora (talk) 18:02, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Correction. It's confirmed that he's Obito. Kishimoto told an interviewer that Tobi's identity would be revealed this month, and it was. Why is everyone still acting like Tobi's a mystery to be speculated upon? I understand the disappointment. I was anti-Obito too. But you can't ignore something on a silver platter, and whether we like it or not, the likelihood that he's Obito is 100% at this point, and we need to merge the articles. And I understand perfectly, Goblin. I really do. But whether you want to believe it or not, whether you choose to believe it or not, or anything like that, it's more or less confirmed that he's Obito. It seems like a plot hole now, but Kishi will definitely explain, and we shouldn't be waiting for him to do so. It's the epitome of unprofessional to withhold edits with important information just because a few people want to cling to the notion that he isn't Obito. The ship sailed, and Kishi said he'd reveal it this month. Next week might not have any new info, and the week after might not either. While it's likely they will, we can't bet on that slim chance. The info is here right now, and we need to use it. There's no speculation to be had, Kishi very clearly stated that he's Obito in this chapter, and changing it a chapter later isn't something he'd do. But that's unimportant speculation as well, so the real problem is simple.. the chapter unmasked Tobi, revealed him as Obito, and people still want to deny it. Why? Keep your personal opinions out of this situation, because like it or not, the evidence that he's Obito is as overwhelming as it can be. You've seen his face. Elve, you're just running on speculation now. Even if he's just Obito's corpse, he's still Obito. --M4ND0N (talk) 18:03, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
There is no need to go on with this discussion, all of us already know what is going on. We should just wait ONE week and stop discussing like barbarians (some even insulting others). Please. Be moderate and understand each other. Waiting won't hurt anyone.. will it? Khaliszt (talk) 18:07, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- @Elveonora: Well you may be right. But as you said it's a speculation. I don't think that it may be a corpse. If it is, the appearance should be a kid Obito - exactly how he died. And Khaliszt, you have a point though.~IndxcvNovelist (talk | contribs | PR | RLS) 18:10, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Nothing is confirmed yet, ur getting pretty annoying already by constantly repeating yourself again and again. Just because it's Obito's body/corpse there doesn't mean it's him. Because by this logic, Yahiko is Nagato for sure--Elveonora (talk) 18:12, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
I'm not going to just submit to this idea when it's completely unprofessional for the wiki to do. None of us have a say in what will happen, so the debate is pointless. Obviously the admins will make their decision, and I'm going to make sure my side is visible to them so they can decide what to do by observing both sides of the argument. All I'm saying is this shouldn't be an issue. A week will hurt, because he's been confirmed to be Obito. So it's ridiculous to withhold the content from the latest chapter because of a few doubts. And I agree, Elveonora. He's definitely not a corpse, or someone in Obito's body. So what does that tell you? Just look at the facts. Kishimoto said Tobi's identity would be revealed this month. The chapter is titled Obito Uchiha, and his face is revealed. Sorry Elve, but you're getting pretty annoying by ignoring my points. So I'm going to keep repeating them until you address them. This is a serious issue, and not something I plan on brushing off. So get used to my replies and points. Because I won't stop until you explain why Kishimoto would announce Tobi's identity to be revealed WITHIN THIS MONTH. When he was just going to reveal him to be someone else a chapter later. Explain that. --M4ND0N (talk) 18:16, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
IndxcvNovelist already noticed my point. Let's see if the other two "fight to death" combatants, Elveonora and M4AND0N notice it too: PLEASE, it's done, it's over. One week won't kill ANY of us and won't hurt you either. So just leave it there, we can wait a week and THEN discussions, theories and resolutions on what to do with the articles will be clearer. PLEASE. Or discuss on your talk pages, this is getting full of repeated things (because each of you has already said the same words 6 o 7 times). Thank youuuu ^^ Khaliszt (talk) 18:17, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Until the admins personally say that we're going to leave the articles as they are, then nothing is absolute, and asserting that we're gonna wait a week when you have no say in the matter isn't the right way to handle this. Only the admins know what they're going to do with the article, and hopefully they see the facts CONFIRMED BY THE CHAPTER, and merge the articles accordingly. But I heard from Elve that Jacce told us to wait? If that's true, I'd like to know where he posted this. --M4ND0N (talk) 18:19, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, Khaliszt. For Elveonora, seriously, you're annoying too. And you didn't understand WHAT I'm trying to say! I'm disagreeing with your opinions about Tobi! And I don't f' care if you don't agree with mine it's our opinions. ~IndxcvNovelist (talk | contribs | PR | RLS) 18:25, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Well regardless. We can't leave the pages as they are. The chapter came out, and there's still content to be added. If you don't merge them, then at least add the content of the latest chapter to both articles. The Shinobi World War arc on Tobi and Obito's Legacy respectively. If you can't at least do that, then you're basically ignoring an entire chapter. --M4ND0N (talk) 18:27, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Feel free and add it yourself, but reasonable stuff. Like: "It appears to be Obito Uchiha under the guise of Tobi, details are unknown at this time" or something--Elveonora (talk) 18:30, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
I'd like to hear what the other admins have to say, because there's still a chance nothing will be revealed next week. So the situation still isn't over. The admins need to come to a mutual agreement to either merge the articles or add the content of the latest chapter to both articles. It's not up to Jecce alone. but if the other admins don't put in their 2 cents, then I guess it is. But you're right, the argument is pointless since in the end, it's up to all the admins what to do. --M4ND0N (talk) 18:35, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Leave two separate Obito/Tobi pages and just add a link on the Tobi page that leads to the other to reveal his identity. This will keep from ruining things for new fans of Naruto that may want to read all of the manga before finding out Tobi's identity.
Leave two separate Obito/Tobi pages and just add a link on the Tobi page that leads to the other to reveal his identity. This will keep from ruining things for new fans of Naruto that may want to read all of the manga before finding out Tobi's identity. -Ace3Hiro
Sorry. Not use posting on this wikia page. Most of the other wikias that I am a member of use posting a little differently and automatically add a user's signature. Anyway good luck on whatever you guys decide to do. -Ace3Hiro
So let me get this straight. Despite the fact the chapter is named "Obito Uchiha". The person behind Tobi's mask is Obito Uchiha. And Kakashi flat out CALLED him Obito. We are not going to merge the articles just because some (not gonna mention names, because its blatantly obvious who) want to believe the crack pot theory that the body is somehow a corpse (he was a kid when he died, yet his "corpse" is an adult? Awesome logic guys) possessed by Zetsu/Madara or anyone else they can pull out of their rears to make it anyone but Obito? Okay, no. There are some inconsistencies. Yes. But Tobi is now confirmed to equal Obito. All the rest of the stuff will be revealed in time. Just like how Nagato was confirmed to control Yahiko's body, or how Tobi was revealed to not be Madara. For now, what we know is Tobi is Obito. Period. Change it. Crack pot theories need to be thrown out. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 18:49, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
y u no like my crack pot theory? :( I'm not saying that the dude behind the mask isn't "Obito" but I say it's too early to say he is, such a BIG personality twist/change in a year? Almost looks like he got possessed by a demon or something--Elveonora (talk) 18:54, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
okay and what if nagato really did meet jiraiya in the 3rd shinobi war. instead of it being a mistake in the anime, it might very well be mistakenly written in the databook that they met in the second shinobi war. if masashi has not clarified this. what makes you so certain that it was the second shinobi war. just cause it's written in the databook? keep in mind every other character, sasori, itachi, minato, obito, all find their origin during the 3rd shinobi war. how would it be that nothing at all is mentioned of tsunade, orochimaru, or jiraiya during the 3rd shinobi war. the databook is incorrect. not the anime. furthermore at the end of tale of a gutsy ninja it show minato destroying the bridge and states he ended the war. this would be a huge mistake. i can't believe so many people rely on the databooks instead of the actual animes and mangas. masashi needs to clear this up. because as far as im concerned everyone has just assumed nagato met jiraiya in the second war because it says so in the databook. yet tale of a gutsy ninja explicitly talks about the 3rd shinobi war. it doesnt just state it was the 3rd shinobi war. the entire episode is about the 3rd shinobi war. and at the of the episode kinnabi bridge is destroyed. THINK ABOUT IT. stop assuming.
Can someone ban this kid? He keeps posting without signatures. I'm sick of using a line to seperate his comments from the person below him. But yeah. That was Gai who said that. Kakashi was speechless. You can tell from where the speech bubble points. Obviously it's Obito. Kishi confirmed it, so why is this an issue? Sorry for repeating, but it's baffling me. Does anyone expect him NOT to be Obito in the span of a chapter after he's been saying eerily Obito things in the passed few chapters, only to have his face revealed to be that of Obito's? Let's be realistic, here. --M4ND0N (talk) 19:01, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Because, quite frankly, and if you use common sense, you'd know the answer to that question. That was not a legitimate question. For example, he did not say, "Are you Obito?!" he said "You're Obito?!". That is a shocked response at seeing Obito's face once again. He's not literally asking him who he is. He knows that and from the looks of it, so does Guy. They're both just shocked and Kakashi blurted it out in his shock. The chapter would NOT be called Obito Uchiha if it wasn't. How stupid do you think Kishimoto is? "Oh, I'll just name this chapter Obito Uchiha. Next week, he'll be [insert crack pot theory name here]." Yeah, no. Kishimoto has never and will never write like that. Get over it. Its Obito. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 19:03, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Agreed. We should not be quick to make assumptions because its not confirmed yet. (Chapter 363: Sasukes Death!)
god u guys are idiots. fine fuck off then you damn manga dweebs. im pointing something out here, that's critical to the entire story and you just ignore me and keep talking about some ridiculous crap about rather or not obito is truly tobi. you obviously won't know all the details until the next chapter. there is obviously some twist to it also. otherwise masashi would have given more info during this chapter. know one gives a shit if you merge the articles or not you dumbasses. im really gonna be laughing when it turns out that im right about this. the issue im talking about has never been officially cleared up. but it will be soon. anyways im done. you can't ban me anyways. i dont have a static ip address. but i am through posting on this ridiculous site.
Databooks are from Kishi, they are WWWWAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY above anything the anime provides. Nagato died as circa 42 years old, sure couldn't be in the 3rd Shinobi World War. @Foxxie, I'm not saying he ain't Obito... but he ain't Obito :) sight can be deceiving--Elveonora (talk) 19:11, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
So, let's see here. God, I hate being redundant, but it appears a few of you really need this. Chapter's name; Obito Uchiha. Check. Flashbacks provided were of; Obito Uchiha. Check. Narration at the end of the chapter says; "Its revealed! His name is Obito Uchiha!" Check. Kakashi or Guy calls him: Obito Uchiha. Check. Your response? "WAIT FOR ANOTHER WEEK! THERE'S NO WAY TO KNOW! IT HASN'T BEEN CONFIRMED! WHAT IF HE'S OBITO'S ZOMBIE POSSESSED BY [Crack pot theory named here]!" Yup, my respect for this wiki and a few of its members is very quickly going downhill. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 19:12, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- This is fucking pathetic. Whatever way you string this, TOBI IS FUCKING OBITO! DEAL WITH IT! --Speysider Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | My Wiki | Channel 19:13, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Okay, sorry for getting off topic, but it needs to be said. Whoever's posting without signatures, stop it. Just stop posting. I've told you again and again how to add your signature with the button on the toolbar, but you keep posting and mixing your contribution with someone else's. The rules of the wiki are to add a signature to everything you say, so if you don't stop this right now, you'll probably get banned. As for the "Sasuke's death" chapter, he wasn't actually shown dying. Tobi was shown as Obito, so yeah.. it's confirmed. Why would we wait till next week just for the possibility of a crack theory completely making this chapter meaningless? It might go back to Sasuke and Orochimaru. And even if it doesn't, why would we wait? It's pointless. Obito's been confirmed to be alive, and operating under the name Tobi. We don't need an explanation to know that it's confirmed. Elveonora, saying that just made anything you say from this point on invalid. I seriously hope the admins don't take your input seriously, because you're sounding like a total idiot right now. He's not Obito? Where's your proof other than speculation? Because.. hm, lets see. 1. His face was shown, 2. the chapter is called Obito Uchiha, and 3, Kishi said he'd reveal his identity this month. So yeah, I'd say it's pretty set in stone that he is in fact Obito. And if you can't explain why he isn't, then just stop commenting, because your posts are cancerous and unconstructive with no basis other than your opinions and desperate speculation and denial. It's abrasive and I think you should stop right now, before you make yourself look like a bigger tool. --M4ND0N (talk) 19:16, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
And that's another thing. You've been ignoring all our points, and you just said that Tobi isn't Obito. This isn't something you can brush off. Either refute our points or stfu. --M4ND0N (talk) 19:19, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
You've been ignoring posts of mine as well buddy, I'm not denying that the flashbacks were about Obito and that the unmasked dude sure is in a form Obito. But that doesn't make him Obito in person, just wait.--Elveonora (talk) 19:22, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
You know what? That's fair. Nothing in this particular chapter proved that he's Obito in person. But the passed couple chapters did prove that he knows a shit load about Kakashi and Gai, and his personality during the nine-tails attack was quite childish and goofy.. like a combination of his old Tobi persona and his Madara persona. If that's your only point in claiming he's not Obito, then there's plenty of stuff in the past that proves that he has a similar personality. So why would Kishi give him a similar personality to Obito, reveal him to be Obito, then in the next chapter reveal that he's just Obito's body? We said the same thing about that before. Remember the theory of Madara possessing Obito's body? That came and went. Now you're just rehashing old theories in the same way other anti-Obito theorists did, only shifting it to fit the situation to avoid admitting that he's Obito. It's a practice as old as the chapter where Obito was claiming to be Madara. It's done. Enough of these Obito's body theories, and enough of these possession theories. Nobody in the series has ever been possessed in that way. Only Dan possessed that ability, [no pun intended] and it was only temporary so I highly doubt he's anyone but Obito, in fact.. no, screw that. He is Obito. You know why? Of course you do. there's no sense even explaining the points, since it's been said over and over again. Just deal with it. Oh yeah, Ten Tailed Fox. Am I the only one who finds it hilarious that as soon as Tobi's identity is revealed, people still have to speculate about his identity? I saw it coming, though. It's hilarious as fuck that people are using the Obito's body theory again. --M4ND0N (talk) 19:31, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
So just because he knows stuff only Obito should know, well... then he is a Madara/Obito hybrid cause he knows hell shit lots about that guy and his history as well. Not a valid argument. And now you mention it, actually Tobi did possess AU Naruto's body (Menma's) in the movie, so it's possible. Obito was a nice guy, gave Kakashi the eye... only to a year later turn 100% evil and not give a fuck about destroying the whole Konoha and everyone in it? Just fucking wait, makes no sense. And this is why I hate Obitards, they want him to be Tobi and alive and whatnot while ignoring any plot details and logic. This chapter alone didn't provide enough proof, the flashback was more than likely either Kakashi or from a narrative stand-point. And this isn't the first time when corpses are controlled, if he turns out to really be Obito under the control of Shisui's/Madara's Kotoamatsukami, then well then sir. Till then don't be so offensive towards my person--Elveonora (talk) 19:39, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Yeah, I saw this one coming. Quite amusing actually. I, personally, do not like the fact that he's Obito. Hate it completely. I was one of the people that laughed at those who speculated it to be Obito until just a few weeks ago when we started getting clues. Seeing his Mangekyō is what won me over. Now seeing this, I have no further questions. Honestly, this whole argument is stupid. If this were anything else, they'd be saying "Don't be bias! It was revealed so we have to change it." Or how the whole "this site isn't a forum so no crack pot theories thing" was just thrown out the window. I've seen dozens of crack pot theories on this page alone (not even considering the other talk pages) being used to justify not taking action on this wiki; something that has never, in my time of using Narutopedia as a source, been done before. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 19:40, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
I wasn't an Obitard until this chapter came out, for your information. And if those flashbacks were told from Kakashi's perspective, why were there scenes where it's just Obito? Kakashi wasn't anywhere in sight. On top of that, did you seriously just say Obitards ignore plot details and logic? Did you really? Says the person who's ignoring the plot details of a chapter called "Obito Uchiha" where Tobi's revealed to be Obito. LOL --M4ND0N (talk) 19:42, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
i say wait for more back story then combine them
- And Elevonora, I just have to say this with no disrespect towards you intended. Yes, your theories are crack pot and do not belong on this page to be used as any sort of justification for a lack of action. If you want to provide cold hard facts that he is NOT Obito Uchiha, please show me. But personalities can change in an instant. All it takes is one push to change a person completely. Obito's change to Tobi is not all that surprising. We will hear his motive soon enough. And please, enough of the possession theories. There is literally no proof of that whatsoever. Enough speculating. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 19:44, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Let's sum this up
Since half of you guys is overreacting about who that guy is and who he's not, I'm trying to sum up what we have:
- First of all, the chapter title. It's called Obito Uchiha, there's no doubt about that, even without a raw. But does it matter? No. And why not? Because chapter titles do not always tell the truth. As someone pointed out already, there's a chapter entitled Sasuke's Death. That's why the chapter title is irrelevant. It fits, though, since the chapter basically was a flashback of Obito.
- Second, Tobi's face. I think we all agree that he does look like an aged Obito. That's it, but it's just his face. While there's no clue to that, I'm sure you could fake a face easily.
- Third, Kakashi's (and not Guy's) sentence. In both ms' and mp's version, Kakashi's saying You're Obito...?. It's not a question, but kind of a shocked recognition. While I doubt that one could mistranslate such an easy sentence, I'll still look at the raw when it's available.
- Fourth, the narrator's sentence. Here, the translation differs a bit, so we can't really be sure what the original's saying. I'll take a look at that, too. But Suki-senpai once mentioned that those comments are left out of the tankōbon version, so they don't have much weight on the whole thing.
That's it. I won't deny that he looks like Obito and it's as good as true, but I'm missing the tiny... "spark". I'm, in fact, missing a "yes" by the one who's asked. Thus I think (and it's only my opinion, but I hope it somewhat matters) we should wait at least until the next chapter's out before we change what needs to be changed. At least that's what I'm going to do in the German Narutopedia. Seelentau 愛議 19:45, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
It's absolutely sickening how the community is treating this. They're acting like a little kid who lies his ass off after being caught with his hand in the cookie jar. Desperation is the only word I can use to describe the excuses people are making to wait a week to edit something that's otherwise confirmed. Goes to show how the community reacts when a plot twist happens that they don't approve of. I knew Tobi's identity would cause controversy.. but not like this. Can't we just have closure in Tobi's identity once and for all? It's been revealed. Enough speculating, let's just merge the articles. Why would Kishimoto lie about revealing Tobi's identity within the month? There's more than enough proof to warrant merging the articles. --M4ND0N (talk) 19:48, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Well, again no disrespect intended, Seelantau, but, I'll see ya in a month while you're still waiting for that "yes", 'cause you're not getting one. Never in my life have I EVER read or watched a story unfold where the villain is revealed and they say "Yes! I am [insert villain name here]!" in response. I double doubt you'll get it from Obito because he has already stated he doesn't care who he is. But, nevertheless, you keep waiting on that "yes" and get back to me on that one when you get it. I won't be expecting a message. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 19:49, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Then let me ask you this good sirs, now that ur 100% sure that dude is Obito in person, and the next weak it's revealed to be someone else, what are you gonna say? "Oh, sorry for being stubborn" or will you just take ur nose even higher? I'm not against stating in the articles that Tobi appears to be Obito, but it's too soon for a merger yet cause the next chapter for sure is gonna explain what we, narutofans wanted to find out for years. The fuck 3x edit war--Elveonora (talk) 19:50, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Well then, allow me to answer your question. Masashi Kishimoto said that he'd reveal the character that is Tobi's true identity this month. Fact. Now, this chapter came out today saying that it is Obito Uchiha; Tobi's identity. Next chapter will be in the FOLLOWING month. That right there is enough evidence for me that Obito and Tobi are one and forever the same. Period. He is Obito. Stop whining and crying. Pull your big-kid pants up and get over it. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 19:54, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
This edit war could end if the articles become merged. Also, "guy who doesn't use signatures." Please learn the rules of the wiki before commenting. I'm sick of reversing your edits. Anyway, is that all you want? Some backstory to "prove" he's Obito? I don't understand your logic. How will backstory confirm any more of the authenticity of his identity than his face and Mangekyo being shown? --M4ND0N (talk) 19:55, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
My goal with this section was just to summarize what happened in this chapter and how it should be looked at in an objective way. You could've continued discussing in the discussion above, guys. I'm not amazed by this plot twist, only by its stupidity. I'm fine with Obito being Tobi and all, but I want it to be confirmed in some way. Tobi has to react and I want to wait for that reaction, since I don't see the confirmation some of you guys see in this chapter. That's all. No childish crying from my side. I can't even understand why there's all this ruckus. Seelentau 愛議 19:58, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Tobi doesn't have any Obito traits, like coming late, stuff getting into his eyes etc. Not to mention NO EMOTION shown, there's a lot of unknown, and it doesn't make any sense for him to be Obito (yet, till explained) the thing that I don't want him to be such is secondary. Don't look at his fucking body, check out personality/traits. I don't see much Obito resemblance at all.--Elveonora (talk) 20:02, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Sorry for double post, but remember what Naruto said:
- names do not matter
- masks do not matter
I knew it, I knew it. One day in naruto wiki history there would be a time where every body would argue over something stupid. Elveonora why are you acting up. Why you cant accept the truth. It just a show/book. It not a life changing event to be stressing about. Like really? Obito was 13 and tobi is near kakashi age now. obvious he going to change. You not going to expect a 13 year being all dark and evil at that time. Nagato was nice right. But he got corrupted and that proably what happen to obito. All of you, have some common sense especially you elveonora. Yeah there going to be explantion but you guys are over reacting. Just be patient. —This unsigned comment was made by Animefreak 55 (talk • contribs) .
If Obito turned evil over time, then okay... acceptable. But it happened in a year, that's not believable. The only explanations are, mental disorder, possession, or Kishi's fuck plot no jutsu--Elveonora (talk) 20:26, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Tobi's attack on Konoha occurred a year after the 3rd Shinobi World War had ended, thus Obito had only a year to:
- get his head fixed with Zetsu stuff
- get overpowered
- turn pure evil
- learn everything there's to know about Uchiha
- grow tall
- change voice
Other Factors could affect him like 1 year is alot of time for one person. Im not sure how to explain this but my point is that other factors could be involved in this. —This unsigned comment was made by Animefreak 55 (talk • contribs) .
Okay look. I agree that the plot doesn't add up, but Kishimoto has made stupid decisions before, and this is one of them. The point is, he's Obito. We're not waiting out confirmation, he's Obito. It's completely unprofessional of the wiki to keep the articles stuck at chapter 598 for two weeks. Also, Elveo, your points continue to be crap. Tobi's used multiple voices in the past, there's no proof his head was crushed by the boulder or that it's made up with zetsu goo. He might not be pure evil, he knows Madara.. piece that together, of course he knows about the Uchiha. Most 15 year olds are tall, and I didn't see Kakashi and Gai looking shorter in the slightest, finally, Tobi isn't overpowered. He's been pathetic in this fight. So like I said, you clearly don't have any points outside speculation. And when you try to come up with them from facts established in the series, I can dispute every single one of them in a matter of seconds. Why are you still trying? It's clear you're an anti-Obitard who just wants to frantically try to justify any excuse you have to suggest Tobi isn't Obito. I don't like it either, but I'm accepting it. Because not accepting it would make me look like a desperate loser, which is what you're being. And I say that with no offense meant, because I know you aren't one. But your behavior just strikes me as somewhat desperate. For christ's sake, your profile was boasting about how Tobi won't be Obito for days. Now that it turns out he is, you can't accept that you were wrong. I don't get it. --M4ND0N (talk) 20:40, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Yes extacly ^ just because you don't like it doesnt mean it have to go by your rules elveonora. If it's stated in the manga then theres nothing you could do about. If you want you could just make your own naruto info wiki so it could be based on what you feel its true. Just dont stress over something stupid- no offences to the staff here. —This unsigned comment was made by Animefreak 55 (talk • contribs) .
First of all, I would like to say how disappointed I am with the fandom's reaction to this chapter. It's the whole Itachi's truth, Kushina is a Jinchuuriki reaction all over again! Let's face it: people have been trying to guess Tobi's identity for so long that whover he turned up to be (Izuna, Obito, Kagami, Fugaku...) the fans would be disappointed. Did I like the revelation? No, but Kishimoto has explained other twists fairly well until now, I believe he will do it again in the next chapter(s). I agree that we should wait until what happened is revealed, there are many things that need to be explained.--Kai Maciel (talk) 20:46, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
I'm also disappointed. But we should still merge the articles, or else we're spreading misinformation to people reading. Tobi was, by all means, revealed to be Obito. That much is confirmed. The fact that we're not merging them because of some lack of backstory and explanation is childish. We'll add the backstory when it's revealed, but we can't keep saying Tobi and Obito are seperate entities, because they're not. Any insinuation that they are is speculation that's unconfirmed, while our best lead which IS confirmed is that he's Obito. The end. --M4ND0N (talk) 20:50, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
"Manga hints on Tobi personally knowing Madara" "Kishi confirms that the men know each other" "Madara died around the time when Nagato was still young, judging by the brat comment" "Obito turned Tobi decade and a half later" you can't explain that ;)
And I'm cool, Kishi's final word > my opinion... I know that, but I don't take this as final, wait just a week please then I will come out of the closet. I know that we at this wiki shouldn't take our logic above canon, but when the canon isn't clear then there's a reason to be cautious. For comparison, Orochimaru appeared to be Shiore at first, turned out to be a mask made from that person's flesh--Elveonora (talk) 20:51, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
If I may interrupt. I read the chapter today, and I was kind of sad to the lack of words. In the end of the Chapter we see the mask finally broken and Tobi reveals to be Obito Uchiha, however. I've read some of the comments and I understand that some of us may be angry or sad. I for one did not want Tobi to be Obito, but we don't know why someone kind turned out to be some evil super-power. I think it has been decided, but we'll just wait until next week. And for all you know, Masashi Kishimoto could surprise us to why Tobi is Obito or that Tobi is not Obito somehow. A similar instance happened with another anime known as Yu-Gi-Oh 5d's. The head of Yliaster(an organization composing of 4 people and cells), ZONE(Z-one) had a "mask" on his face then it broke due to being thrown into a nearby building. When ZONE emerged, his face resembled Yusei Fudo(the protaginist of Yu-Gi-Oh 5d's). The episode ended there and then another episode came up later on. ZONE said many things, but one thing he said could mean that he's not Yusei. He said that he made himself look like Yusei. This is still arguable, but, this seems to resemble the dilema we're facing now. After a few information, we may find out that what we see is not what it seems. In my opinion, Tobi looks like the Fourth Kazekage actually(highly unlikely)... But that's my opinion. I hope not to spark up another debate, but I just wanted to say this. 7 days won't kill any of us. If the people that said Tobi is Obito is correct, then you're correct, no one will argue with you. If Tobi is, however somehow not Obito, then Tobi is someone else. We just have to patient. That's all we need. Thank you.--Yumoz (talk) 21:00, August 29, 2012 (UTC)Yumoz
Kinda a shame that everyone is fighting over this :/ I honestly don't see why waiting a week will confirm anything, chances are we'll skip to a different scene next chapter. Then what? Instead of a week, we'll be waiting a month for a so called 'confirmation' that we already have? Wikipedia have changed their article, so why not change ours? The narrator says 'It's finally revealed. His name is Obito!'. Just because we don't have the details doesn't mean it isn't true. I very much doubt Kishimoto is going reveal him as Obito and then suddenly turn round and say 'LOL NOPE! Sorry guys, just trolling!' --188.8.131.52 (talk) 21:08, August 29, 2012 (UTC)Demi-Dee
It's cool, I just wanted to save you guys a lot of work in a case there's a twist to all of it. Would be hilarious to merge the pages only to again separate a week later--Elveonora (talk) 21:11, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
There are good reasons to wait to merge the articles. Confirmation is a good one, and a reasonable one. But more importantly, the Tobi being Obito makes it very difficult to merge because of timeline issues.
When Tobi fought Minato, he would have been either 14 or 15 years old. He would have been somewhere around 17-20 years old when Itachi found him. He was never extremely skilled, as has been seen, so to be fighting on par with the 4th Hokage 1-2 years after his "death" with a full mastery of his time-space ability, the ability to control the nine tails, and the fact that he appears to be even older due to some previous manipulations of Nagato and Yahiko.
At best any merged page would just become confusing and nonsensical, with too much conflicting information. In the interim, before the next chapter, it would probably be best to simply leave a connection between the page, state the reveal as part of the summary portion of the Tobi article, and as part of the trivia/legacy part of the Obito article, and then wait for more information. Him being Obito makes too little sense for it to so simple, which means that the work it would take to constantly be re-writing the articles would not be worth the immediate time.
In regards the the Madara reveal; Madara was brought back from the dead, so it was clearly him. Even if it were some situation were Tobi was some form of living incarnation of Madara with his memories, it is still not Madara because Madara's soul was brought back, so spitting the article was really the only choice.
- Kishimoto's fail on this is irrelevant. I just tried to merge the two in a User Page. It's damn near impossible without cutting out tons of information. Granted Tobi's Personality section is already long, it's hard as hell to try to combine them and make them work.
- It also leads to the stupid problem about what to call him across the dozens of articles. Changing every instance of Tobi to Obito will just look bad imo.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 21:54, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- I agree and as I said earlier, "Tobi is still a unique name that is only identifiable to the masked Obito, so there shouldn't be any need to change all instances of Tobi to Obito at least for those [concerning information] before the reveal". While there are a few possible exceptions to this (e.g. ability articles), the only major issue I foresee is the same as Snapper2, that inevitably some editors will ignore this and attempt to change every instance anyway, as with what happened with the tailed beasts' names. Blackstar1 (talk) 22:19, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Well, how about just keeping all the articles as just calling him Tobi? You could change Obito's article into Tobi's, and state that his birth name is Obito Uchiha. But I suppose even then it would complicated to do so :/--184.108.40.206 (talk) 22:20, August 29, 2012 (UTC)Demi-Dee
I'm a rare contributor on here, and hope this post appears properly and where it should.
I always thought Tobi would be Obito, but I don't think the chapters should be merged yet. I highly, highly doubt Kishi will suddenly go, "Lol, nope" in the next chapter, but the truth is-- if it turns out that even if it's Obito's body, it's not Obito himself (after all, Nagato was in Yahiko's body), then it's going to be another enormous, huge overhaul for the mods.
But I do believe in this wikia being up-to-date. I think the Tobi page should have a note that says, "Revealed as Obito" along with the relevant information, and that Obito's page should say something similar. Link the two pages. Don't do a complete merge or de-merge. Let readers know about the reveal, but don't start making the major changes until the next chapter.
If, in chapter 600, we learn absolutely nothing new about Tobi/Obito, then we should go ahead and have them merged. If he goes back to Sasuke or the kage fight, we're sure as hell not waiting a month for him to get back to Obito. But the truth is-- I think waiting a week for potentially clarifying information is worth it. I also think that we can update with other information-- such as how this chapter revealed potential sabotage during the chunin exams. Did anyone notice what the candy the old lady gave him did to Obito? We should definitely put that information in there. But I feel like I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop in the next chapter.
So let's keep it simple. Make a note about the character link on both pages. Analyze the chapter for information about relevant characters' pasts-- we now know what genin teams most of the jonin were in (Gai, Genma, Asuma, Kurenai, Hayate, etc.) We know more about Kakashi's past, about Rin, and about Obito. Let's not let that stuff get lost in the whole, "Omg, Tobito!" discovery.
But you know, I am pretty damn sure it's just plain Obito.
[deep sigh] Wall of text ahead. I have yet to read the majority of discussions anywhere, in Tobi's talk page, and in Obito's talk page. I may suggest things that have already been done without me knowing. I tried replying to this thread within one hour of the chapter going online, I was at college, but the power went out, and when it came back on, I was already in the middle of stuff I couldn't simply stop. Now, I think that this chapter makes it clear that Tobi is Obito. I don't dislike that because of the obviousness of it, but this does to my soul the same it did to the timeline: it kicked it in the nuts and punched crater-sized holes in it. I see that stuff from Tobi's page was moved to Tobi's article. I don't know if Tobi's page still exists as a redirect, I hope it does. I agree that the page was to merged, even if several wrinkles in the timeline need to be resolved. In a case similar to Kurama/Nine-Tails and the other tailed beasts, we know have two names with which to refer to the same character. I think it's imperative for us to keep referring to the character as Tobi throughout articles for the parts which talk about him prior to the revelation of his identity. Of course, the place I most think this should be considered is in parts of articles which describe the plot, for example, arc sections in character pages, chapter/episode articles, and arc pages themselves. Anachronism aside, that also potentially saves us time if it turns out that this is a Nagato/Deva Path situation, which would mean going through all articles that had the change made. I believe that Tobi should be listed as being Obito, even if I myself see too many timeline issues for that to work, mainly stuff Tobi claimed he did, which would place his existence way before Obito's birth, at least in the Second Shinobi World War. Of course, that could just be him telling blatant lies. I also don't buy the splash text, since those don't make it to the volume release, and I don't really trust the chapter title either. We've had a chapter that referred to him as Madara back when we didn't know he wasn't Madara, one that had to do with the plan to infiltrate White Zetsu in the Allied Shonibi Forces, chapter was clled "Madara's Plan/Strategy" or something like that. I'm still figuring out what to think of Kakashi's line in the end of the chapter, one scanlation makes it look more like a question, and the other makes it look more like a shocked statement. I want know how much the original makes of it like a question, if what Kakashi says isn't "Are you Obito?" instead of the "You're Obito?" we got. Wow, wrote all that without an edit conflict. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:34, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- I agree with that Omnibender. Many articles I believe have already been changed though.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 23:41, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Sorry for my earlier behavior guys. But even if Tobi is (somehow) Obito, there are at least 3 continuity errors in this chapter alone, makes you wonder it's credibility, thus the Tobi/Obito included. Even completely without hatred and bias, reading the article and rephrasing it in my head like: "Obito attacked Konoha and killed a lot of citizens, drove his Sensei to death, killed Biwako Sarutobi with his bare hands (14 years old guy) and played with a giant demonic fox" it's just plain retarded.--Elveonora (talk) 23:52, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
It's perfectly fine Elve, everyone has an opinion on this, and there's nothing wrong with that. But for now no one can really say anything about it, because we can't call something stupid when it hasn't been explained yet. Although I do agree that it is very far-fetched and Kishimoto will have a looot of explaining to do xD But on the other hand it does make a lot of sense, being that it wasn't confirmed that Obito had died, Kakashi and Rin just presumed that he was crushed. And as for the evil-to-good switch we could take a look at Sasuke, who also turned to the bad side, the only difference is that we know why Sasuke switched. Tobi mentions wanting to create a peaceful world, so perhaps Obito is just like Nagato, having a bizarre look on what he calls 'peace'. -Shrug- who knows, these are all just guesses that could easily be either right or wrong. It just hasn't been explained yet, so we'll just have to sit back and wait and see.--220.127.116.11 (talk) 00:18, August 30, 2012 (UTC)Demi-Dee
- Tobi's article and infobox still exist, they just redirect to Obito. No matter what happens they should neither be deleted nor have their page histories merged with Obito's. This means, as I said earlier, that the merge can be reversed if need be. The wiki just needs to take a hard stance and not allow "Tobi" to be changed to "Obito" outside of a few articles.
- When I did the merge I tried to represent all of the confusing portions of Obito's history as what they are: confusing. Hopefully it will stay that way until it isn't confusing anymore.
- Also, this is a fair point, one I had not realized when I did the merge. The article doesn't need to full-on say that Obito was behind the Nine-Tails' attack, but it should acknowledge that we have more reason to believe that that really was Obito's doing.
- Oh, and I'm totally calling it: Obito's main motivation for doing these things is because he loves Rin and he's just mad at Kakashi and the world for letting her die. And then it will be revealed that his Patronus is a doe. 18.104.22.168 (talk) 00:21, August 30, 2012 (UTC)
- I see what you did there. Always. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:16, August 30, 2012 (UTC)
- Harry Potter puns even after all this time. I went away for a few hours and now I can't follow anything especially with the site broken really bad currently. Any way it would appear that we merged the articles which is fine by me, though I wanted to wait but meh. Just a few things, I wish we'd make like his introduction more clear for example, separate his Obito stuff from his Tobi stuff and make it a bit more clear that the article will use both names. As for people changing every instance, we'll just have to be a bit more firm than we were with the Kurama bit.--Cerez365™(talk) 10:57, August 30, 2012 (UTC)
- I see what you did there. Always. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:16, August 30, 2012 (UTC)
So... From whatever I could grasp from the above discuusion, we are going to keep it Obito for things that were done by Obito and Tobi for things done by Tobi. Am I right? 03:26, August 30, 2012 (UTC)
- Yeah, but I think that it's all in one same article, Obito Uchiha Khaliszt (talk) 12:53, August 30, 2012 (UTC)
Obito's Body is Obviously being controlled or something.. Tobi says he gave Nagato rinnegan and Nagato shows his Rinnegan to Jiriah who goes to teach Minato who then teaches Kakashi and Obito soooooo..... I Don't Know- DragerX
Yeah, it looks like they merged the Articles. I'm not all for it, but I'm not in any way an important enough person to have some effect. BUT, all we got from this manga was a short backstory and Kakashi and Guy saying "Obito?!", at the last page. NOT Obito! They said "Obito?!" (Pre-kKenglish class guys). This obviously provides a sense of uncertainty; doesn't constitute any facts whatsoever. Kishi said he'll reveal the man's identity, blah blah blah, this month, blah blah blah. Point is, he's either messing with us or his calendar is about a month off, lol. None of the characters said that the masked man is Obito. Not even the masked man said he was Obito. So, as our amazingly annoying justice system works, this guy is innocent until proven guilty. Hence, should NOT be called Obito till the next manga (IF anything is revealed by then) --Da-sTROLLER (talk) 03:53, August 31, 2012 (UTC)
- Elveonora you really need to curb your swearing. Just admit it: you lost. Get over the fact the chapter didn't turn out the way you wanted it to. --Speysider Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | My Wiki | Channel 15:27, August 31, 2012 (UTC)
- Yeah, I agree with Speysider. You're annoying, Elveonora, bringing up closed discussions. Again, get over it. What will you gain from insisting Tobi is not Obito? Go ahead and tell Kishi to make Tobi Izuna instead of Obito! :P ~IndxcvNovelist (talk | contribs | PR | RLS) 15:31, August 31, 2012 (UTC)
Jk, seriously. Just pointing out these two:
- Notes, by the time when "presumably" Obito showed his face to Kisame, he was sure younger looking. There's no way that Kisame could believe the man to be Madara, unless he really looked like such, or it was the legendary Uchiha himself.
- Tobi was about to show his face to Sasuke, the latter has seen what Madara looked like, there's no way that he would have said: "okay, I believe you lol"
- since the series has means to make PERFECT clones, control corpses and to transform into other people and even change the voice, you know where I'm heading.
- If you don't believe that Tobi is Obito, then in your opinion who do you think Tobi is? ~IndxcvNovelist (talk | contribs | PR | RLS) 15:57, August 31, 2012 (UTC)
He is no one. More things to point out:
- he bleeds goo/white zetsu mass
- I remember Naruto mention something about a possibility of Tobi having a chakra rod in himself (might be just my imagination/false memory)
- Why would Obito bleed flower stuff? Simple, it's a Zetsu Clone/Obito's corpse merged with Zetsu
- controlled by the "real/true Tobi" from inside shadows with Outer Path
- Come on, corpses never age at all.
- On number 1, are you referring to Nine Tails attack?
- DO YOU REALLY THINK KISHIMOTO WILL DO SOMETHING again like Pain arc? Naruto will suck if that'll happen.
|“||Why would Obito bleed flower stuff?||”|
- Okay, so "soulless" body merged with Zetsu or simply the latter has touched Obito's chakra and transformed into a Substitute.
- Also Torune&Fu fight
- Yes, this would be too obvious, there's surely something smelly in the air
- Yamato being Hashirama's Clone bleeds normal blood, and even Danzo having WHITE Hashi cells did so.
Tobi's skin appears to be normal/healthy colour, no Hashirama's cells on his arms, so why would he bleed white thing?
- Hmmm... probably on right part of his body he got Hashi's cells. You know that right part of Tobi's face is scarred. It's obvious it's Obito. It's the part where the rocks fell down (I know you know that, just saying). Well I'm doubting that scene too. I don't think someone whose body is crushed can speak, (although this is just fantasy but scenes like that struggles to be as realistic as possible). Substitute Clone probably, as you said, has something to do with it.~IndxcvNovelist (talk | contribs | PR | RLS) 16:31, August 31, 2012 (UTC)
- Birthday: February 10
- Height: 175cm
- Weight: 55.9kg
- Blood type: O
- Birthday: February 10
- Height: 174.8cm
- Weight: 55.9kg
- Blood type: O
And that's not my intention, to annoy you... so I better stop now. I'm sorry for that, just found it interesting. I say, better people post **** here than to paste it into articles and related talk pages, as 99% things in here is forum-like anyways. And again, sorry to hear that I'm getting on your nerves, just don't take it so seriously.--Elveonora (talk) 23:46, August 31, 2012 (UTC)