3rd vs 6th, who would win?
Dukindra 13 Kralj 01 wrote: Weakest hokage is Tsunade!
kakashi without sharingan is jounin at best, he has some high lvl taijutsu stuff, in hgenjutu he is mid-lvl maybe lower and ninjutsu is average (he has a lot average ones)...
i dont see him winning against tsunade :I
with kamui he could have had a chance, without, i dont think that he can injure her badly enough for this to happen :I
Kakashi without Sharingan has better chakra and stamina reserves and control. He also still knows how to use the 1000 jutsu he copied. Kakashi may have lost the KKG but think about it, even with Sharingan he was fighting for soooo long and spamming Sharingan and Kamui in the 4th War, think about how LARGE his chakra reserves are now, and how GOOD his chakra control and precision is. He may have lost Chidori along with the KKG but he gained the usage of more Jutsu and his Purple Lightning Jutsu. Kakashi is not Jonin level anymore by any means and he is not weak by any means.
QuakingStar wrote:
Kakashi without Sharingan has better chakra and stamina reserves and control.tsunades seal requires immense control and it provides incredible chakra reserves, look at sakura, merely 3 years and her reserves are incredible, imagine 30 years of tsunades :)
QuakingStar wrote:
He also still knows how to use the 1000 jutsu he copied.we dont really know what jutsus he copied :I
QuakingStar wrote:
Kakashi may have lost the KKG but think about it, even with Sharingan he was fighting for soooo long and spamming Sharingan and Kamui in the 4th War, think about how LARGE his chakra reserves are now, and how GOOD his chakra control and precision is.it is hugh indeed, but didnt he use kamui at most 20 times? during the war? it shows big reserves but not if it is compared with tsunades seal.
QuakingStar wrote:
He may have lost Chidori along with the KKG but he gained the usage of more Jutsu and his Purple Lightning Jutsu.purple lightning?
QuakingStar wrote: Kakashi is not Jonin level anymore by any means and he is not weak by any means.
he is upper-class jounin based on all his other abilities, maybe lower kage lvl but he still wouldnt win agaisnt tsunade :(
maybe he can change it with tactics, but based on abilities i wouldnt bet on him ^_^
kakashi is a walking hype-train plot-hole
GreatestSin wrote: he is upper-class jounin based on all his other abilities, maybe lower kage lvl but he still wouldnt win agaisnt tsunade :(
Kakashi would most probably lose to Tsunade, unless he finds a way to stab her heart or chop her head off. But in no way is he merely "upper-class jounin or lower kage lvl". That would have been a better description of Kages like Kurotsuchi (is that how her name is spelled?) and Chojuro.
Also, Hokage Kakashi's reserves should be quite high considering his War feats (a non-Uchiha, who didn't descend from Hagoromo or Hamura, spamming Mangekyo techniques like that must have really high reserves). Like I said previously, Kakashi's chakra reserves is probably around pre-War Orochimaru level, which is high enough. Of course his chakra reserves wouldn't be as high as a Senju-Uzumaki hybrid like Tsunade. But I think Hokage Kakashi still has a chance to beat her because he has the brains to do that. Lest we forget, brains were the main weapons that brought down Hidan/Kakuzu as well as Edo Nagato.
GerizzyYMcrew wrote: kakashi is a walking hype-train plot-hole
He was hyped only at the beginning of Part 1. By the time of the Chunin Exams his hype was pretty much gone, considering that scene where he shits in his pants while preparing to fight Orochimaru. A hundred chapters later he gets owned by Itachi in 3 seconds. Kakashi has no hype. But yes you can consider him as a walking talking plot-hole, like how he managed to spam Sharingan and Kamui during the War, when few months prior to the War he got severely weakened after using Kamui only once against Sasuke's Susanoo arrow. Plot hole no jutsu ftw!
BakumatsuWarrior wrote:
Kakashi would most probably lose to Tsunade, unless he finds a way to stab her heart or chop her head off.yes to the severed head but i doubt that a destroyed heart would mean death :I at least not if sh uses her super-howeveritiscalled-healing-jutsu :)
BakumatsuWarrior wrote:
But in no way is he merely "upper-class jounin or lower kage lvl". That would have been a better description of Kages like Kurotsuchi (is that how her name is spelled?) and Chojuro.he is the weakest hokage, and since there is no real way to compare him with "normal" kages the only way to describe him is "lower-kage-lvl" :I
BakumatsuWarrior wrote:
Also, Hokage Kakashi's reserves should be quite high considering his War feats (a non-Uchiha, who didn't descend from Hagoromo or Hamura, spamming Mangekyo techniques like that must have really high reserves). Like I said previously, Kakashi's chakra reserves is probably around pre-War Orochimaru level, which is high enough. Of course his chakra reserves wouldn't be as high as a Senju-Uzumaki hybrid like Tsunade.to be fair, her reservs arent only because of her lineage, they mostly come from her chakra-seal-jutsu...
BakumatsuWarrior wrote: But I think Hokage Kakashi still has a chance to beat her because he has the brains to do that. Lest we forget, brains were the main weapons that brought down Hidan/Kakuzu as well as Edo Nagato.
agree ^_^
GreatestSin wrote: he is the weakest hokage, and since there is no real way to compare him with "normal" kages the only way to describe him is "lower-kage-lvl" :I
The key word here is weakest HOKAGE. No one's disputing Kakashi's the weakest among the Hokage. However, the Hokage have almost always been way ahead of other countries' kages in power and skills. The only exceptions are the 3rd and 4th Raikage, and Onoki, who could match the Hokages of their respective eras in ability. Muu also seems pretty strong but compared to Tobirama's hype and War feats he pales in comparison.
So seeing as how the Hokage have traditionally been miles ahead of other kages of their age, we can safely assume that Kakashi is at least on par, if not superior to other nations' kages. He definitely looks wayy stronger than Rasa. He seems to be even with Gaara, if not better (I think the latter). So it's rather incorrect to say Kakashi is "low-level kage". Rather, he's low-level HOKAGE, which is the same as saying that he's a normal kage.
BakumatsuWarrior wrote:
The key word here is weakest HOKAGE. No one's disputing Kakashi's the weakest among the Hokage.i never tried to say something else ^_^ but since we are at it :P :
BakumatsuWarrior wrote:
However, the Hokage have almost always been way ahead of other countries' kages in power and skills. The only exceptions are the 3rd and 4th Raikage, and Onoki, who could match the Hokages of their respective eras in ability. Muu also seems pretty strong but compared to Tobirama's hype and War feats he pales in comparison.tobi didnt really show much, neither in genjutsu, taijutsu ot ninjutu feats :I
either way, i dont think that every other kage (except the ch.700 kages) are so much lower than others, all the other kages who got revived with edo-tensei had been really strong (the weakest was garas father)...
BakumatsuWarrior wrote: So seeing as how the Hokage have traditionally been miles ahead of other kages of their age, we can safely assume that Kakashi is at least on par, if not superior to other nations' kages. He definitely looks wayy stronger than Rasa. He seems to be even with Gaara, if not better (I think the latter). So it's rather incorrect to say Kakashi is "low-level kage". Rather, he's low-level HOKAGE, which is the same as saying that he's a normal kage.
if we compare him with the revived kages and the shown kages, i dont see him being much better, yes, he wont be the weakest, but he surely would come at best to #5 weakest kage...
GreatestSin wrote: tobi didnt really show much, neither in genjutsu, taijutsu ot ninjutu feats :I
Whatever little feats Tobirama showed was more than impressive. In fact, I'd say his tiny collection of feats outshines Muu's by miles. He killed Izuna, who was MS Madara's equal (theoretically). Edo Tobirama scared the shit out of Oro & co. with a mere raise of his finger. He also nearly broke free of Oro's control. The only reason Oro was able to restrict Tobirama's movements was because of Hashi cells, which, as we all know, are god-level cheats.
During the battle against Juubito, Tobirama was quickly able to formulate a strategy seconds before being being decimated by Juubito (the multiple exploding tags technique). He was also quickly able to work and coordinate with shinobi he had never met before (Naruto, Minato and Sasuke), forming effective partnerships with them to fight Obito. His intellect and wits were the sharpest among the guys fighting Juubito. But his most badass moment was when he returned Juubito's own TSB to himself, while Minato, Naruto and Sasuke were hopelessly waiting for their deaths. No amount of Muu's jinton feats can match that.
Oh and there's also the part where Muu gets knocked out of his senses by Madara during Muu and Onoki's visit to Konoha. Madara did that by merely manifesting his Susanoo arms and nothing else. However, Tobirama was able to fight MS Izuna and ultimately ended up killing him. Throughout their numerous fights, it's safe to assume that both MS Izuna and MS Madara used their Susanoo against Tobirama/Hashirama. The fact that Tobirama was able to kill a shinobi who could manifest at least an upper body Susanoo, while Muu got knocked into unconsciousness with a mere Susanoo arm clearly shows how superior Tobirama is to Muu.
And back to Kakashi, yes he pales in comparison to 3rd and 4th Raikage and Muu and Onoki. But Kakashi seems to be more than capable of handling Rasa as well as the Second Mizukage, who I think are the least interesting Kage shown in the War. Although you could argue that the 2nd Mizukage is superior to Kakashi since he ended up killing Muu, which is quite an impressive feat.