The Rinnegan allows the user to master all 5 basic nature transformations, and Madara could already use Yin-Yang Release. So how come he, or Sasuke for that matter, didn't manifest the TSB? Is there something else needed to trigger it? The Tenseigan also grants them, and Hamura had them, so is all nature transformations all it is? Cause there have been people who mastered them and didn't manifest them.
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Thekillman wrote:
Hiyayaka-kun wrote:
"Seelentau (Sysop • Translator)
So basically Kishimoto is a puppet and he got to decide shit about his own series. I thought that the manga was good until after the Pain arc (where one editor left), but seeing that even that editor was an influential idiot makes me dislike the manga up to the Pain arc as well."
I think Seel's comment from the Kobayashi interview sums it up nicely. Kishimoto just made crap up as he went. If people were to keep pressuring him on technical aspects, he's probably going to tap William Shatner and be like "get a life". I don't think this one can be put to rest with logic.
I don't think we can confirm whether Naruto has permanently gotten his Sage mode either: there's plenty of precedence for the gift of chakra being temporary. Even for Sasuke's rinnegan, since Kakashi was able to receive a double Mangekyou by being "possessed" by Obito's chakra, but lost them upon Obito leaving.
Dude, have you seen the last 2 chapters of Naruto Gaiden, he used his improved sage mode against Shin Uchiha. And Sasuke used his Rinnegan in The Last and said that he was the only one that could track Kaguya's chakra with his rinnegan as an adult, so he still has it
(Edited by Riptide240)
Riptide240 wrote: Dude, have you seen the last 2 chapters of Naruto Gaiden, he used his improved sage mode against Shin Uchiha. And Sasuke used his Rinnegan in The Last and said that he was the only one that could track Kaguya's chakra with his rinnegan as an adult, so he still has it
The powers he uses are clearly Kurama mode, not 6PSM. I'm skeptic until i see some evidence of an *actual* 6P power. Remember that his cloak changed after teaming up with Kurama, yet only synchronisation is needed for full Kurama mode (That is, he needs to sync with Kurama to unlock Beast Manifestation, but could use Chakra Hands in the easier Chakra mode). He can only synchronise for short periods of time (minutes), but maintain Chakra mode as long as he has reserves (hours). Yet after the synchronisation with Kurama, no difference was made between the two modes.
Therefore, the option that his cloak changes to the most modern form even when accessing "lower" powers is not ruled out. I don't care about whether it makes sense: if it had to make sense, Naruto would've blitzed Toneri in The Last with Six Paths mode in stead of messing around in Kurama mode. The moment we show irrefutable proof of 6P mode i'm the first to admit i'm wrong, but until we see some proof you simply can't rule out other options.
I don't recall any rinnegan in The Last either. The chapter from Gaiden said Sharingan, not rinnegan.
(Edited by Thekillman)
Thekillman wrote: I don't recall any rinnegan in The Last either. The chapter from Gaiden said Sharingan, not rinnegan.
That was translation error, see OrganicDinosaur translation on reddit , Sasuke said Rinnegan in Gaiden and in the Last his Rinnegan was shown when he used Chidori on meteor.
Naruto was able to touch/break Toneri's Truth-Seeking Ball so he had some Six Paths Chakra, I think that is proof enough. He just used Kurama chakra mode + Senjutsu but didn't use Six Paths Senjutsu that's all.
(Edited by Mecha Naruto)
Thekillman wrote:
Riptide240 wrote: Dude, have you seen the last 2 chapters of Naruto Gaiden, he used his improved sage mode against Shin Uchiha. And Sasuke used his Rinnegan in The Last and said that he was the only one that could track Kaguya's chakra with his rinnegan as an adult, so he still has it
The powers he uses are clearly Kurama mode, not 6PSM. I'm skeptic until i see some evidence of an *actual* 6P power. Remember that his cloak changed after teaming up with Kurama, yet only synchronisation is needed for full Kurama mode (That is, he needs to sync with Kurama to unlock Beast Manifestation, but could use Chakra Hands in the easier Chakra mode). He can only synchronise for short periods of time (minutes), but maintain Chakra mode as long as he has reserves (hours). Yet after the synchronisation with Kurama, no difference was made between the two modes.
I wasn't referrimg to the cloak, look at his eyes. His Sage mode doesn't have the pigmentation and his face isn't glowing, that's the sign of SPSM. His cloak is Kurama Mode tho.
(Edited by Riptide240)
Mecha Naruto wrote:
That was translation error, see OrganicDinosaur translation on reddit , Sasuke said Rinnegan in Gaiden and in the Last his Rinnegan was shown when he used Chidori on meteor.Ah, thanks for clarifying.
Naruto was able to touch/break Toneri's Truth-Seeking Ball so he had some Six Paths Chakra, I think that is proof enough. He just used Kurama chakra mode + Senjutsu but didn't use Six Paths Senjutsu that's all.
Since Senjutsu in general is not negated by TSB, not convinced
Riptide240 wrote: I wasn't referrimg to the cloak, look at his eyes. His Sage mode doesn't have the pigmentation and his face isn't glowing, that's the sign of SPSM. His cloak is Kurama Mode tho.
I think you didn't get my point at all.
Considering that his look has updated twice, plus what i said about his previous chakra- and kurama-modes, i think graphical differences aren't any solid proof. Once more, i'm not convinced.
(Edited by Thekillman)
</div> I think you didn't get my point at all.
Considering that his look has updated twice, plus what i said about his previous chakra- and kurama-modes, i think graphical differences aren't any solid proof. Once more, i'm not convinced. </div> You didn't get mine either. His cloak isn't what you focus on when determining SPSM, its his eyes and face, which clearly indicates it. In The Last, he was using Sage Nine Tails Chakra Mode, so that wasnt a design change.
(Edited by Riptide240)
Riptide240 wrote: You didn't get mine either. His cloak isn't what you focus on when determining SPSM, its his eyes and face, which clearly indicates it. In The Last, he was using Sage Nine Tails Chakra Mode, so that wasnt a design change.
Looking at "gaiden", all i see is that his new cloak is actually his Hokage outfit drenched in Kurama Mode chakra. He even forms seal patterns unlike 6P Sage mode. He uses no jutsu that attribute to 6P sage mode. I don't see why.
Back to the topic at hand, the only true difference between Naruto and Sasuke/Madara that i can think of that can explain Truthseeking Balls is the ability to use Sage Mode (rather than just sage chakra).
EDIT:
Madara uses "truth seeking" abilities to form a rod. This rod is made like a fluid truthball, not like the Black Rods. So maybe Madara has the ability to create this Truthseeking matter? Because to be honest, i think it's ridiculous that TS balls would be something you can permanently lose. If what i interpreted is true, then the losing of Truthballs is perhaps a lack of true ability, in this case possessing both the 6P Senjutsu and a Natural Rinnegan.
(Edited by Thekillman)
Looking at "gaiden", all i see is that his new cloak is actually his Hokage outfit drenched in Kurama Mode chakra. He even forms seal patterns unlike 6P Sage mode. He uses no jutsu that attribute to 6P sage mode. I don't see why.
Back to the topic at hand, the only true difference between Naruto and Sasuke/Madara that i can think of that can explain Truthseeking Balls is the ability to use Sage Mode (rather than just sage chakra).
EDIT:
Madara uses "truth seeking" abilities to form a rod. This rod is made like a fluid truthball, not like the Black Rods. So maybe Madara has the ability to create this Truthseeking matter? Because to be honest, i think it's ridiculous that TS balls would be something you can permanently lose. If what i interpreted is true, then the losing of Truthballs is perhaps a lack of true ability, in this case possessing both the 6P Senjutsu and a Natural Rinnegan.
Minato specifically said that once they get 70 meters away, they can't be controlled and made a plan to teleport them away since he cant regenerate them. That's why Naruto only had three against Sasuke. The other ones were used or lost against Madara/Kaguya. Minato also made that very clear. He also said they're more like weapons than a jutsu, hence why they can't be replaced. This is also why Madara was left with only one against Naruto and Sasuke
(Edited by Riptide240)
Riptide240 wrote:
This is also why Madara was left with only one against Naruto and Sasuke
thanks. I just reached the same conclusion after skimming a few dozen pages of manga and Gaiden, but i could've saved myself a lot of trouble there :).
The staff material seems to behave like a Truthseeking ball (in that it's liquid-like and not shoved from the arms, while the amount of Truthballs seems to be the same), i hope the Anime maybe has a clearer picture of what it's supposed to be.
" He also said they're more like weapons than a jutsu, hence why they can't be replaced. " I think it's weird that something made upon becoming 6P Sage, is irreplaceable. It could be made, why can't it be made again? I would like to hear an actual reason from Kishi, not that excuse. No blame to you, it's simply my frustration.
(Edited by Thekillman)
Yea
(Edited by Riptide240)